Everyone is WRONG about Scott Pilgrim Takes Off

[@chaycollins]

#JusticeForStephenStills

[@azzamensor7687]

#StephenStills

[@Kinochai]

I can't speak for others, but the fact that this is such a bold departure from the original source material, and that just getting to see the characters I like being (generally speaking) the characters I like, any flaws it may possess are far more forgivable than if it were a mediocre or even just ok straightforward adaptation. Not to mention you should take into account context, we're in a world right now that is drowning in weak corporate remakes with no soul. Scott Pilgrim Takes Off may have flaws, but you'll never convince me it didn't shoot for the moon, and if you ask me, it landed among the stars

[@hgmd3284]

weak corperate remakes, like what? P3R? RE4? Dead space?

[@Kinochai]

@@hgmd3284 I was mainly referring to Disney, but go off

[@shinuyashami5595]

​@@hgmd3284 Movies and shows bud, no one even brought up videogames in the video itself.

[@hgmd3284]

@@Kinochai ah ok. nice to see the gaming space is good on remakes, but movies and tv are nor.

[@AQWpaladan]

​@@hgmd3284I mean, as someone who absolutely adores Persona, I wouldn't say P3 Reload is the most ambitious remake ever. It's a great game for sure, but it definitely plays it straight as a mostly direct adaptation of the original P3, which is kinda what the main commenter was applauding Scott Takes Off for avoiding.

[@AbyssalRook]

I feel like this entire video...ALMOST makes points? But at the same time, it just feels like instead of engaging with what the show IS, it gets stuck in what it isn't. I dunno if it's self-aware or just ironic that you framed yourself as future Scott here, but you built up this level of expectation and the second the show started departing from that, you got so stuck in it that you let it ruin your own experience. I don't think it's INVALID to dislike it, I just think that none of the things you listed were that important from my perspective. A lot of them are some of the reasons I LIKE the show. Scott Pilgrim was always a bit of a medium-bender, with the movie setting a standard for how to present a movie that feels like a comic book. The anime is the same. Yeah sometimes the voice lines come out feeling weird and don't quite mesh perfectly with the visuals...because it's an anime. It LOOKS like a dubbed-over anime. Usually smooth, but occasionally at moments of the most animated emotions de-syncing a little. I LOVE that about it. It feels purposeful. I'm pretty sure it WAS purposeful. With Ramona, I thought it was obvious why she got so obsessed with finding Scott. All of her other relationships ended on her terms. They let her determine her own closure by effectively ignoring that closure. Since she wasn't able to do that with Scott, she was thrown off her pattern. She had one good date and then the relationship was taken from her, and once SHE was the one experiencing loss in a relationship rather than her ex, it forced her into a new perspective, specifically THEIR perspective. That gets mirrored in Gideon being smacked low and needing to change his priorities and get a personality makeover, even if he comes out the other end still evil. Honestly, I think the only thing needed to fix the majority of the issues you (and most people, for that matter) had would be a second season. Letting Gideon be some kind of threat, expanding on the rest of the cast, getting Steven his goddamn boyfriend, actually...DEALING with Scott's exes. Envy. LISA. Anyway, this comment is way too long. The tl;dr is: I get it, but I don't agree with the conclusion or even, to a certain extent, the method of criticism at play here. It just doesn't feel compelling. In a show that's still shafting Envy and Lisa after a movie which does the same, Steven not being "extremely serious" doesn't move me much.

[@yserareborn]

This! I wish I was as good with words!

[@dbrandeau]

Had the same thoughts skimming through the video. Very passionate opinion on the show supported on very flimsy bases. I was also left wondering if the framing himself as future self was self-aware or not lol

[@ashleywhite8888]

@AbyssalRook i'd say the "being forced into the abandonment you push onto others" thing is also true of todd and it's why i liked his portrayal and more importantly felt like wallace's portrayal fleshed himself out wallace finding REAL gay love is shattering an entire facade he put up so hard he literally played himself as a character in a movie

[@maggiehatton6881]

I think he just put his expectations far too high and got on the hype train just to get let down when it wasn't perfect. He's taking Scott Pilgrim too seriously, its a silly comic with vegan super powers and video game logic. IM A SCOTT PILGRIM FAN and the comic was what motivated me to move to Toronto. But I don't take it seriously.

[@AbyssalRook]

@@maggiehatton6881I didn't get that vibe from the video, exactly. I know a lot of people who didn't like it might feel that way, but in this case it feels more like he found something that didn't jive with what he remembered and it jammed itself in his entertainment center and wiggled around til it stopped working. I think people look at Scott Pilgrim in a really sensible way: That the movie is an adaptation of the comics, and that the anime would be ANOTHER adaptation of the comics. But not only is the anime not that, the MOVIE wasn't, either. The movie was finished well before the sixth book came out. It was first shown literally a WEEK after the 6th book hit shelves, and hit wide release theaters in the US a little over 2 weeks after that. This is because the movie was written somewhere between the release of the second and third book and conceived after only the first was published. Looking at different Scott Pilgrim properties as adaptations of each other lessens their individual value, in part because it's just...not accurate.

[@larhyperhair]

I really enjoyed the show, and thinking back on it, i think i enjoyed it as a deconstruction of ramona, and the story of scott Pilgrim itself. As a fan of the comics im DEEPLY sad the fun gay Steven Stills stuff got cut, but i also recognize that, while Scott's arc in the show is very similar to his arc in the comics "fighting against who youre afraid of becoming" at the end and such, putting the agency on ramona to stop running from her problems, and to actually try and solve something is really healthy for her. I also actually ENJOY the fact that the resolution at the end of the comics is the total opposite than the end of the show. To quote CJ the X's sibling: "in a story, you either end where you began, or somewhere else." The original comics ended somewhere else, the characters have been through so much they're irreparably changed by their journey, theyve grown. In the animation, the characters are fighting less for change, and more for a clean slate, a new beginning. Ramona and Scott finally get to be together and move forward as a team, after Ramona made the conscious decision to stop flaking out all the time. I really appreciate that personally. Admittedly i do think sparks are very silly as a motivation though, as someone who's poly, youre not like, destined to be with people, you surround yourself with those you love, whether romantically or otherwise

[@gerldrawer4944]

FINALLY I THOUGHT I WASTHE ONLY ONE

[@sirako]

we are the chosen few

[@alexties6933]

I cant believe this video only has 10K views, its one of my favorite videos in the last months. What fascinates me is that to me the Film and the Series are both just goofing arround while it seems like the comics actually goes deep on human emotions. The band coming back together in the end of the series, having gone barely anywhere while in the comic the band is no more and we actually have change seems like we missed out on something

[@fairy-shotgun]

Thank fucking god someone feels the way I did about the anime. I felt like a crazy person seeing the way that my friends and tumblr mutuals were reacting to it. I can see that a lot of people disagree with you - us - in the comments here, but you were spot on in the point about the adaptation having no stakes and nothing to say, in my opinion. It really is a lot like Marvel's What If - a reimagining for the sake of reimagining - except the reimagining makes no sense because it's like all of the characters already remember who they were or at least what the cultural zeitgeist remembers them as

[@kaylemathewcomendador6964]

It’s called having an unpopular opinion. Everyone has one. Let’s not act like having one means everyone else is wrong. It’s just a different opinion.

[@joeiechristiansantana9641]

@@kaylemathewcomendador6964 It's also called shut up. But for real, I get it, I have no horse in this race, I genuinely couldn't give less of a shit about Scoot, so fire away, but like sheesh. Fella out there just wants validation for their opinion. No need to rub that yeah, consensus says you suck.

[@fairy-shotgun]

@@kaylemathewcomendador6964bro I said 'in my opinion'. who's acting like everyone else is wrong?

[@sirako]

I don't think anyone is going to remember the anime in like 2 years, I was watching the video and didn't remember anything, even if I liked it or not, I went to check on my note and I trashed it, pretty much all the points the video make I felt the same way, but what surprises me is not that everybody liked it, is that I didn't even notice (though in my notes says something like, "everybody around me is loving it, people I even respect". but I can't remember who they were, everything about the series is so forgettable and that's most of tv, people love it because people love tv but I love good tv and I like to revisit something I loved, and this is not something I will ever revisit.

[@CobbleCouch]

Thank you for sharing your story! It's really interesting how different qualities of the same story can relate to different people My own story with the Pilgrim series is *drastically* different from yours: I started with the comics, but I didn't even finish the first Book - I was never interested in romance (especially back when I was a teenager), and I couldn't find anyone in the cast appealing enough for me personally to continue reading; I struggled through it as much as I could, but I still just dropped it So, I gave the Book to my friend - and I was *really* surprised, when he mentioned how amazing the fight was in the end - as it turned out, I was just like 5 pages short from the Matthew appearance (yes, I was that bored with the Book, that I dropped it near the end, not being bothered to read the last 20 pages or so) I was intrigued enough by my friend's enthusiasm, so I decided to watch the movie - and I actually liked it a lot! I liked how fast-paced it was, I liked the jokes and CGI; it was just a pretty good comedy for me! Also, this was quite a rarity for me, because generally I prefer drawn media over live-action I would say that Pilgrim's movie is still one of my favorite movies, and over the years I rewatched it around 10 times already, I think So, after that I returned to the comic - and, well... I still didn't liked it. I still didn't really care about anyone, it felt too artificially stretched, and most of the time I was still bored I liked basically every change that the movie did, as for me it trimmed the fat and reduced the story to the only enjoyable (funny) bits So, when the anime was announced, I was quite cautious - I hoped that this adaptation would be closer to the movie than to the original comic (so I was *really* happy to see Edgar Wright in the crew again) And, well, after seeing the final result - now this anime is my favorite part of the Pilgrim's franchise! It's everything I liked about the movie, multiplied by 100! And the episodes about making a movie about the Scott's life are my favorites😅 Obviously I also have my own share of criticism, but I can just not to think about them while watching, because of the amount of pure fun and enjoyment this anime gives me; I just really enjoy this type of humor and fast-paced action, that combination of Bryan Lee O'Malley and Edgar Wright provides Also, I *really* like Seconds! I *much* prefer the overall setting, the vibes, the main character, the supernatural elements and how they are used for character/plot development in this story... Basically, where Scott failed for me emotionally, Seconds absolutely succeeded My problem with the Scott's comic is mostly the cast, I just can't connect with them as characters - so I genuinely do prefer them being just hollow husks for the comedy sake I hope you'll find more stories like the original comic - but for me, I'm glad that the adaptations are the way that they are😅

[@Kilwede1]

Naw this is exactly how i felt, i end up feeling like im goin full keyboard warrior when i argue about this with people who like the anime. Now, i have all the comics, and i collected them when i was basically in high school and then the movie came out years later. then this anime came out and everyone was singing its praises and i just couldnt agree more with so much here

[@celowein]

Great video as usual! Nothing will eclipse the comics for me either. However, despite all the flaws you went over, I still really liked the anime as its own thing! However, it can't stand on its own without the original, which I think says a lot about how much we DO value the comics! I have friends who watched the anime first and were totally confused and disappointed.

[@stormRed]

Funny how "Manic Pixie Dream Girl," "Mary Sue" and the Bechtel test have all been bastardized at this point. Not sure how much of that is because of sexism and how much is due to the understanding of definitions erodes over time.

[@jskywalker58]

what?

[@THEmeepmopmoop]

I think it’s a mix of both.

[@rocketfallen]

I'm so delighted whenever I see any new uploads from you! You do such great work.

[@lauramcastro4897]

I'm not a big fan of the original or the movie, but I did decide to watch this partially because of your awesome first video (love ur essays!) and partially because the animation is so, so gorgeous and I love me some animation. "Everyone is just goofing around" is exactly the vibe I got. I kept waiting to get hooked into a plot or emotional arc or character development... nothing. Just goofing around. I figured: well, it makes sense the FANDOM like this. I too adore watching my blorbos just goofing around. But if you don't have a prior point of entry... there is nothing being developed here to hook you.

[@thomgoblin8725]

Thank you for this video. I literally wrote a fanfiction about Stephen Stills and Joseph when I was a teenager. Everything you brought up about the comics is something I remember fondly and missed in the movie adaptation. I haven't seen the new series yet, but I am disappointed to hear that it deviates so far from the original as to lose connection with what made the original comics genuinely great in my eyes. (Anyway, I relate to your anxiety about being the Stop Having Fun Guy--I am often perplexed by why I dislike things that everyone else seems to love without criticism. Solidarity.)

[@B00Radl33]

Great video. I own the comics, but haven't read them in almost a decade. I loved the anime. But I was disappointed by the lack of exploration of the same characters. I loved what we got. I guess it had been long enough.

[@dav967]

your opinions are as valid as anybody else's ofc, but that whole massive section ranting about how it's bad that the exes got more humanized in little ways as their own persons as opposed to just being further narrative accessories to ramona or scott really gets the point across that you just didn't get it because you just wanted to read the light novel again but animated, you're not seeing this show for what it is, but only for what it isn't and never intended to be.

[@koujakukoujaku455]

Hello! I am 5 months late for this lol but like, holy cow, wow, thank you for putting my feelings on the animation into words. I was never big into Scott Pilgrim, I think I saw the movie for the first time around 4 years ago and enjoyed it (I always love snappy, fast-paced editing in visual media. Also I am not immune to the Envy concert.) And I've only ever read a handful of chapters of the comic so thank you for the extensive and coherent recaps & analyses in both your videos!! Anyway!! All that to say that I was initially indifferent to the anime announcement and knew I probably wouldn't be the target audience. Then I saw so many reviews praising it for it's "deep characters and fresh perspective on the series" which definitely piqued my interest. But...upon watching it I was completely underwhelmed. Like, the series was pitched to me as "getting to see Ramona's perspective and how she navigates these relationships without Scott around" and that was not what I got! Despite being absent for the majority of the series, it was still all about Scott. Yes, he's the main character, I understood that. But all of Ramona's decisions being motivated by finding Scott just really made it feel like he was hovering over her shoulder, or like she was trying to fill in for him instead of actually doing things for herself. It just felt really off, even as someone who went in with very little knowledge or attachment these characters. I really didn't know how else to describe it other than "feels off," but hearing you talk about the characters and how all they really have is more screen time finally clicked it into place. It is so, so frustrating when people conflate "seeing more of a character" with growth/development. So many times I've heard people describe characters as flat because "we see them do things but don't know who they are; what are their hobbies or goals?" which bothers me to no end and makes me wanna scream! Of course, don't get me wrong, learning more about a character definitely helps flesh them out! But it doesn't matter how many hobbies a character has or how sad their backstory is if nothing meaningful is ever done with them, especially in a story that's all about characters finding themselves and growing and learning through their relationships with each other. (btw Ramona and Gideon's relationship getting completely glossed over so that he could date Julie without issue and then turn into a pathetic sadboy comedic relief character also bothered me! A lot! I was really hoping they would properly talk about their relationship in some way. Any way. At all.) And, for what it's worth, I didn't get the feeling that this was just a video ranting about something you hate. It didn't even sound to me like you hate it so much as you were just disappointed. You were promised something from this show that it didn't deliver which sucks and feels bad! It felt like valid critique a show that's not bad but could've been so much better. Sorry for the long, late comment, but I really did want to say that I appreciate your viewpoint and explanations! I think the way you explained your feelings on the matter were done really clearly too. It came from a place of love for the characters and who they originally were/what they represented and seeing them be flanderized or reduced to jokes hurts. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this show (and thanks for your other videos as well, of which I may or may not have been binging recently!) You provide a lot of really great insight on the structure of stories which also helps me view things in ways I hadn't thought of before and it's very cool!! Hope you're doing well and that you keep doing what you love! (And that no other character you like ever gets as badly flanderized as Stephen ever again. Poor, poor Stephen...)

[@Pindie12321]

8:11 WAIT SHES IN THREEOF MY FAVOURITE ANIMATED SHOWS AS LEADING CHARACTER THAT I LIKE?! I HAVE A NEW FAVORITE VOICE ACTOR NOW

[@5000_People]

As someone who only watched the film, many of the criticisms don't have anywhere near as much weight for me. I didn't know Steven the way you did, so the simplification of his character to half of the film version which was a quarter or eighth of the original is much less impactful. Young Neil didn't feel like he had much identity, so being comic relief definitely made him more memorable. Ramona did feel like a thing to be won and a MPDG in the film. I think that's where this all comes from. I do agree with you that it could have been better using more of the source material, but it was still a good time. Really I didn't view it as an adaptation but more of a person playing with their toys, imagining new directions for them to go, but not trying to stay true to the original. It's a fanfiction I guess.

[@unimportant246]

The people saying the characters are deeper and better rounded are comparing the series to the movie (in which the characters are REALLY flattend) Which makes a lot of sense since more people know the movie and they let the actors voice their characters again so it feels like an alternative version of it Ramona might not be a mpdg but that did NOT stop men from using her as a direct insult to women who even slightly look like her, theres a whole song called "ramona flowers ruined a whole generation of women" that gained a LOT of popularity about that, she desperately needed some space to breath I havent read the graphic novel cause the fandom seemed very unwelcoming to alt people and women like ramona but seeing people say "hey if you have some issues with the movie and liked what the show did, you should go read the graphic novel" has made me think about it and its been on my to-read list since then

[@hastur2905]

The people who are very unwelcoming to alt people and women like ramona aren't part of the fandom, normally. MOst of the time they're just tourists somewhat familiar with it that just use her as the archetype

[@jskywalker58]

i assumed people were just joking when they said "ramona flowers ruined a whole generation of women"

[@domokid98]

this video is so good brooo

[@ashleywhite8888]

as a person who enjoyed the anime, and thought about it a LOT, i want to share my perspective (unfortunately with a lot of sonic comparisons): the voices having slightly-off vibes is intentional, and meant to match the mismatched lipsyncing to give it an old canadian dubbed anime feel, i thought that part was obvious but i can see how it just feels stilted if you're unfamiliar with it. personally i prefer it to just trying to pull everything off with a straight face and no flaws, as having charm is better to me than having polish in every corner. as for the arcs of gordon and lucas, i think they're a good exploration of how these characters (their behaviors, etc.) respond to being placed in new context. half the charm is how they're written in terms of dialogue style and flair, and the other half is their actual character traits and arc, and when the two show eachother off very, very well, it creates a well-rounded and fun character. (that part is, in my opinion, why classic sonic doesn't work very well) on this note of dialogue style and flair, stephen stills, in the comics, doesn't really bounce off the page because he's written like a human. flanderization in a situation like that is necessary, though when you're trying to boil down a character to make them more expressive and louder, you need to figure out exactly what a fan of the character sees in them in the first place. as an example, roger van der weide's video on sonic in lego dimensions talks about how the more recent comedic depictions of knuckles are missing the point, whereas his parodies go off of knuckles being a goal-focused loner and turn it into him being a terminator parody simplifying and focusing on flair is why knives, kim, and young neil are so different, and it feels like you ignored every bit of how they add to the anime's vibes because they're narratively convenient and don't do the same things as the comic or movie. in my eyes, i think knives' arc going the way it did was so convenient on purpose, to tell a story through a different lens, one that's less natural, but at the same time, more subtextually rich. it's the same as making everything rely on floaty and indistinct game mechanics. which... yes, game mechanics are used for a different narrative purpose here than they are in the comics. todd's portrayal, in my opinion, is interesting because you get to see how he reacts to his own treatment of others. he's put in the shoes of the women he dates. however, the emotional truths of this and how he responds to this are seemingly done entirely offscreen, only showing the aftermath in the ending. that, i feel, is a missed opportunity. i think wallace being the toxic partner in that scenario and generally turning out to be toxic and pessimistic under that bravado until he sees sparks for himself and breaks this whole facade of a character he was putting up (to the point of playing himself as a character in a movie) is subtextual enough to have been missed, but i think it's one of my favorite plot points

[@Dudewhoisthere17]

One thing I can compare the voices to are English dubs for anime, they’re always flat. This is especially apparent when compared to their original version.

[@morang9202]

Your videos are always a delight to watch. So much creativity, passion and effort on display. I think you really hit the nail on the head here as well. You put it really beautifully. I share the all same criticisms with the animated show too. I'm sure their intentions were the best, but it really seemed like in execution, the show relied on shock value and gags and was unable to replicate or reinvent the heart of Scott Pilgrim. Felt quite empty and hollow to me.

[@BrandyAHyatt]

I also recently read the comics (last month) before watching the new show, I can say I feel similar about the writing of the characters. It starts off strong, but starts to fall flat the deeper we get into the season. I think it’s nostalgia that’s painting folks opinion.

[@xsvrrx]

Thanks James Something always felt off about this anime and i just could not put my finger on what it was.

[@Andrewgtv05]

I swear this show was just an Adaptation of The Scott Pilgrim Books for a Modern Audiance.

[@jonathansl109]

?

[@whims2135]

This did resonate, thanks for the stellar video! I've never read the comics, but I did watch and enjoy the movie. I didn't hate the anime but I don't really know why it exists outside of 'more content, more references'. Without spending too much time on a rant no one will read, it felt like the film used Ramona as a vehicle to explore Scott, largely to her (and other characters') detriment. Now, with years to revisit and unpack that story, with Ramona as the lead... she's used as a vehicle to explore Scott (or, at least, to reference our nostalgia for him), largely at the expense of other characters (Roxie's moments excluded). It made it hard to buy into Ramona's self-actualisation at the end, and it felt more than a bit cynical for the true ending to be "Nah, you're /meant/ for each other'. I think it could've been a bolder and more interesting show if they committed to Scott's disappearance and let the other characters breathe. Instinctively, I feel like we're being collectively conditioned to confuse references & nostalgia with depth and meaning (e.g. Marvel). Not to say that these weren't problems before, but with less companies owning more properties each it's easier to build and monetise our loyalty to IPs.

[@natsuki7325]

I got into Scott pilgrim by watching the Netflix show. I’m just now reading the Manga. It’s nice to hear other opinions on Scott pilgrim takes off.

[@scrimblocoded]

i havent seen the video yet but before i do, i just wanna say this title is such a relief. absolutely did not enjoy this show at all, it felt like it missed literally everything that made the comics and even movie enjoyable. there was an interview where someone involved with the show stated "since everyone hates scott now, here you go, a show without scott" and i think making a series based on stupid internet discourse is such an abhorrent idea that its no surprise it ended up so sour. no clue how its so beloved

[@laloulalou]

It feels so validating to find someone who agrees with me on this adaptation! I personally enjoyed it a lot in the beginning and end, but it's like you said - mostly frosting without cake. I'm an animator, so I mostly enjoyed it for the visuals. The animation is insane and so is the cinematography. I never liked the movie much because my favorite part of the comics is the fact that it's a story about Scott realizing his flaws, Ramona realizing hers, and the two of them agreeing to become better people together... the anime really lost me on a lot of stuff, it felt like surface level characterization and a lot of things didn't make sense to me, I was missing key parts of the characters, etc. etc. In the end, I decided to focus on what I enjoyed because the idea of an animated Scott Pilgrim was something I wanted for so long. I think it has a lot of good points, and I'm really glad it was made, but I still agree it missed out on a lot of levels.

[@harmenheuvelman3070]

I admit to not having watched the anime version on Netflix, but I have read the comics and own the film on DVD. But what you described about how the series seems to react to our collective memory of the story rather then to the actual story really does hit a nerve. I've seen it happen plenty of times over and over. The only thing I can say is give it another couple of years, typically that's when people go back to the original and find out that "hey, would ya look at that. Looks like this DIDN'T play into the tropes we all wound up hating and actually these characters have lots of nuances and agency of their own". What is frustrating to see, however, is that even the original creator got so weighed down by the collective memory that even O'Malley seems to have forgotten what he wrote. Or just grew massively insecure over it. Just shows you how destructive and shallow internet discourse can be at times.

[@jonathansl109]

I was wondering why I didn't enjoy the show despite it's obvious strengths (esthetics), thanks for explaining it to me. I was excited after 2-3 episodes realizing it was a totally original storyline, but then I had to fight my way to and through episode 6, I was ready to call it quits, but I was curious about the opinions out there so I watched someone else's videoreview and they mentioned there were pacing issues in the middle but that it picked up in the last two episodes. So I finished it, and I kept my midpoint impression: it was an ambitious attempt to do something new, it failed, lets move on... Thanks to fleshing out why it just doesn't work

[@SirUnwin]

you're right. I tried watching watching it earlier this year and I stopped after episode three because it was so trash to me. The characterizations were so off point and I'm glad someone else noticed it along with the under par voice acting. I also hated how much hand-holing there was just in those three episodes. Like why explicitly show me Ramona changing her hair color only to have that information relayed again in dialogue? We were all there when it happened! Do they think I'm stupid? Hmph 😤

[@martinajohnson]

FINALLY someone who sees what I see! I thought the anime sucked too, and not because it was different from the comics, but exactly for the reasons you mentioned: lack of emotional depth and a loss of what made the comic interesting. I never saw the movie and only read the comic for the first time last year, and I wonder as well whether that's what makes my perspective different. I loved what you called the "subtle emotional storytelling" of the comic. I agree that the characters lost what made them human and nuanced in this adaptation. It all felt very surface-level to me.

[@ShutUpJayke]

To me, Takes Off is barely an adaptation: its a parody with a few emotional scenes. And honestly, I think it does a good job of that. But I do agree with you, when I first watched it, I enjoyed it, but I was incredibly disappointed in how they represented the characters. Now, I can appreciate for what it is rather than what is isn't. Takes Off is really fun, and will always be one of the most entertaining shows I've ever seen. But in terms of a narrative, I feel like it had everything lined up in its favor, then just kept fumbling the ball.

[@cellest4461]

Last year i watched the movie and was really, really enchanted by it. After it, i decided to watch the anime (didn't like it as much as the movie, btw), then i just went to the comics and honestly, they are so cool! And i finished my reading very recently, and watching this video only reinforces why i was able to resonate so much with it. Thanks for the video, i also really liked the one about the movie!

[@koffi_duck]

I would had like if this video was a critique of the anime WITHOUT the comparisons to past source material, because they are pointless. it is not an adaptation, it was never meant to be, when you realize that, you realize why it was made the way it was. everyone involve knew this, when you are working on a budget, you cannot have those sort of liberties

[@lauramcastro4897]

I did watch the Order video!!! Its really good!!!

[@alexandregouveia7759]

When the movie came out, I was already in love with the comics, which spoke deeply to me and what I was going through at the time. Wright's adaptation left a bitter taste in my mouth, feeling it was all style with no substance by changing Scott's personality, the moral of the story and missing what made the original so great: the day-to-day development of its characters and their gradual evolution. Despite its visual qualities, I never understood the hype the movie got after that. When the anime's announcement came, I was ecstatic. Sure it has the cast and crew of the movie, but it seemed like it would be a very faithful adaptation, following the events of the books closely, and I was sure that Science Saru would do something great with the anime medium. I couldn't wait to show my girlfriend what was so important to me back in my twenties with a new lick of paint. But close to its release date, I heard that it would take a new direction, and I felt a little bummed out. So I waited to see it until the feeling would fade. Then I saw your video and said "what the heck, at least I will know if it's my cup of tea". Guess I will just lend the comic-book to my girlfriend now.

[@onesuggyboi]

Excellent work as always, I will absolutely be checking out seconds!

[@yserareborn]

I was following your points, but I’m sorry your conclusion sent me up a wall. I also read the comics again before the anime too. I keep the comics on my desk, Ramona is the name I took for myself when I came out as trans ffs. Please don’t assume I’ve forgotten this story. And honestly? You’re selling the anime’s fans short. There was an entire movement on tumblr where the anime caused them to re-read or even read the comic for the first time because they only ever knew the comic by it’s bad “manic pity saves a dude” reputation. Through the anime they realized the franchise was so much more nuanced than they gave it credit for. I love the anime, love the comic, frankly dislike the film too, and whole heartedly disagree with your points. If I have a problem with this series, it’s how condensed it is, but to fully respond to all the comic frankly need another eight episodes minimum. It works better as an answer to the film. It gives more focus to characters prominent in the film and leans more on their depictions. Which makes perfect sense, since these are the film actors! Ugh. I don’t want to talk you into liking something you don’t, and I’ve honestly been where you are. I felt like I was going insane with how much the movie was being praised at the time, and how I must love the film since I was the person who banged on about these comics in the first place in school. Nor do I think you or your critiques are wrong. The comics have more to offer than was mined here. But, I think you should regard those who liked it with a little more charity. Frankly, I should’ve been more charitable to the films fans.

[@croberts576]

I like the show a lot! I have been watching the movie sinve i was a kid, probably way too young frankly, and read the comics a few years after watching the film for the first time. But i really like the show, it felt a lot more like Ramona's pace of life, in a way, which i think lent to the tone well. I agree the voice acting is a little weird, but I dont think it does so much harm unless you're used to animated shows/movies

[@Reilia_]

This is like a really great video though, why the fuck are the views so low? I mean maybe the title seems a bit like oh this is a reactionary thing at first glance without having seen your previous stuff? I feel like it's likely that youtube censored it though, which is an absolute tragedy

[@tsk5328]

controversial and thought provoking.

[@RandomBoo256]

I completely agree with you! I'm so glad someone else was able to put my thoughts into words. I loved the books and even the movie and was super disappointed with Takes Off. As a side note, the movie may not have much heart compared to the comics, but the movie is good simply because it's funny. Way funnier than Takes Off at that. I don't remember laughing at all in Takes Off, whereas both the comics and movie get me to laugh even while rereading/rewatching them.

[@willofbob]

I might be reading into it wrong, but I read Ramona's constant hair changes as a visual metaphor for her inconstancy and distance from the people around her. Ramona or someone talking to her brings up explicitly that she wants to avoid people getting to know the real her out of a fear of rejection, hence the running and self-reinventions, and this is represented by her constantly changing an immediately noticeable aspect of her character design. In the last episode, she has a natural hair colour - blonde - with her previous teal hair remaining only at the tips, to represent her becoming more comfortable in being known. Even if that is how it was intended, however, I do think it comes across as a little unclear. They should have made some alterations to the animation of her morning haircare routine that gets recycled through the other episodes if she hasn't dyed her hair in a while or is removing the dye. I also think they could have left her with her teal hair rather than undye her, because that would have added visual consistency. The idea of her natural hair colour being more "her", too, seems off to me even if I can understand the idea - her dyed hair was a conscious choice and felt like it showed us more of who she is than the absence of dyed hair does.

[@jazzmcfrazz]

im someone who has only ever seen the movie and i loved it with all my heart, even though the whole Roxie thing is a bit problematic. I don't really like the anime, but for me its def a performance thing first. Like the movie is still sooo funny to me and the anime has really weird pacing and the jokes just fall flat. My first watch wasn't so bad, but then the 2nd watch I watched the movie first with my boyfriend and we both loved it and laughed so much. Then we tried watching the anime and... well... i just couldnt even get past the first 3 episodes with him because I realized how it paled in comparison to the movie so much. I guess your situation is even worse having to directly relate it to the comics. Anyway, thanks for making this video.

[@PolyGarrett]

The anime left a really sour taste in my mouth and even after re watching it for the first time since it came out a year later I still feel that way. I feel they had the perfect opportunity to do right by the comics which was left out in the movie. The book and movie split off after the first fight and the comic book story was completely left behind. so many people's perceptions of what Scott pilgrim is, is the movie and as much as I enjoy it, it does not do the story or characters justice. so much of the growth that made me fall in love with the story so many people dont know. I think that's why the show leaves a sour taste in my mouth. They wouldn't be redoing the movie because the story splits off in such different directions. After the first episode the story is not the same. I wanted to be able to point at the show and say to people. This is why I love Scott pilgrim. Both with the original art style and the story behind it. I cant do that because to watch the show you need to have already watched the movie, read the comics and the other forms of media. The show is kind of horrible in many ways because of that. There are some things I really like about it but there is so much that makes me sad. The twins are completely sidelined once again. They end up being so meaningless to Scott pilgrim. Idk I love and hate the anime. Whish we got a more complete version of Scott pilgrim with the best of the comics and the movie. The whole twist of the show pissed me off than it surprised me. leading up to the show's release they never even really hinted at it being different so I felt really tricked. Went in to see the best version of Scott pilgrim and got a marvel what if episode.

[@BigSlimyBlob]

It's definitely not a "YOU'RE VERBALIZING WHAT MY SOUL HAS BEEN SCREAMING" situation for me, but... you're not wrong. Your criticism may be subjective and somewhat abstract, but I think it's relatively accurate.

[@oftinuvielskin9020]

I was also really surprised that people loved it so much. To me it was really meh - the artstyle was beautiful, but the story was kind of dull and the voice acting was sometimes really painful. I love Aubrey Plaza, but wow did some of her line deliveries make me cringe. I loved getting more of Kieran Culkin as Wallace though, but where I'm usually all for making things more queer, the story line with Todd felt a bit unsatisfying to me too. Kind of all goofs and no substance. Might have been more interesting if, as you suggested, Wallace had a genuine schoolgirl crush on the skaterbro guy and the story revolved around Lucas rejecting hypermasculinity and struggling with being gay while famous for being a dudebro, while Wallace could be dealing with having real emotions for somebody he's sleeping with. That way you get to expand on both characters. I've never read the comics. Now I'm kind of tempted, but I'm not sure I like Scott or Ramona enough to commit to reading the whole thing.

[@austynjohnson1586]

You’re not as alone as you think you are, James. I was so excited when the anime was announced, and it’s not that I hated it. At the time I found it enjoyable… Then two weeks passed and I’d forgotten nearly everything about it. I’ve only read the comics twice ever, 8 and 6 years ago respectively, and there are still lines, scenes, panels, little details, and entire sections permanently burned into my brain. The comics were an uncomfortable story about coming of age, relationships, and emotional baggage, all disguised by goofiness and nerd shit to pull you in. The anime feels more like a cutesy romantic comedy show, disguised as a Scott Pilgrim story.

[@normal6483]

I feel the exact same way. It's so strange to see people praising it as a positive step forward, especially on the queer representation front. Because, like... it has fewer queer characters than before? Stephen Stills isn't gay anymore, Wallace was flanderized into having no heart, and a lot of the LGBT+ side characters are completely absent. They made Todd bi, but only as a joke, so the new representation is flatter and mostly exists for humor's sake. Roxie was really good, but that's not enough to make up for everything that had to be sacrificed. I also agree that, in general, no one changed or grew. Ramona used to have the flaw that she abandons people, but by the time the show starts she's already gotten over that, so she's the same in the beginning as she is in the end. Scott learns that he'll be immature as an adult, and he solves that by not doing anything differently. No one changes, nothing is different, and everything is doomed to repeat itself. It's a fun show, but its flaws really keep me from enjoying it.

[@GBLtheMOTH]

I only discovered the Scott Pilgrim movie last year and heard (seen) about some things in the comics so i had an idea of it's escence, and now, when i watched the anime i felt that something was "off" as well, maybe i just don't like it's anime tropes or the "kind-of-flat" voice acting but i felt weird when i saw that everybody else loved it. I can see why: the animation is awesome and it apeals to the younger audience; but it doesn't feels as good as they paint it, i got bored watching it and now i just want to actually read the comics because they seem way more interesting and thought out than whatever the anime was on about. The anime felt rushed and then too slow, the characters felt weird, idk, maybe i just don't like anime in general but even watching low quality animes i felt more entertained than watching this series. My only thought after watching it was: this could have been great. Don't get me wrong i don't hate it and there are some little things and details that i liked, but it's not something i would rewatch.

[@GeorgeEgroed-e7f]

I feel weird about the opening. It never changed and i always felt longing for a proper slice of life , no big changes , anime adaptation of Scott Pilgrim series. But also it made me long for scott's return even more. Wich is both good and bad. Good: i emphasise with Ramona. I WANT her to find scott. Bad: through the whole experience i've been reminded in a stylish manor of what i won't get any time soon. I felt cheated out of nice relatable slice of life story about all these characters i like. Anime has less hanging out , building relationships with other people and all the other stuff. I cant even say its mostly nostalgie on my part: i am yet to expirience early 20s , and i didnt read it long time ago. I got into this story roughly a year before the show came out. P,s, So weird stuff. Feels like character's new depth is just stamped onto them. I dont remember it while reading the comics, it doesnt help me to undertand them better.

[@Sebastiantheonewithlonghair]

Omg finally someone who agrees with me. I really disliked this show when I watched it, and I felt very alone in my opinion. The original comic book series was an incredibly relatable and entertaining metaphor for growing up and reaching true maturity, and I felt like this show kinda dumbed everything down and replaced it with really surface level and generic tropes of recent TV shows and movies. I feel like Brian Lee O'Malley decided to change the show without really having something new to say. Like... I understand the original story was meant to mirror a lot of things from his life, and the show is meant to mirror his life AFTER Scott Pilgrim, but... Brian Lee O'Malleys life isn't as relatable as it once was. I could relate to a selfish young person making stupid mistakes, paying for them, and dealing with jealousy, but I CAN'T relate to things like making a movie. I also felt like it was kinda dumb how they took everything that was meant to be a metaphor in the original and made it more real in the world of the show. And I totally agree that the voice acting was mid. And I felt like there were weird gaps between sentences that felt really off and unnatural. Idk. I've become apathetic to it at this point. I hated the show when it came out. Now I'm just like, eh. It was a wasted opportunity in my opinion, but at least the comic still exists. And the show was visually very pretty.

[@Emerie_Bieds]

I enjoyed the show. I didn't think it was ground breaking. I recognized that it was trying to fix the public perception of the characters peowhad due to the movie, but as someone who has read through the books several times I know the characters are different. I watched the show as a sorta of goofy time to go back into a flashy universe I enjoy and thought it was funny. But yeah, the way they fucked up Stephen Stills bothered me. I walked away from the show saying "they had a whole show to make him gay and they didn't make him gay? Wtf?". I mean, Joseph was in the fucking show...

[@keleneses]

Yeah this show sucked lol Everyone's performances were so bland and the script was completely disjointed and unsatisfying. Also agree that the Roxie reconciliation was a high point. It nearly had me thinking that the show was going to turn around after the terrible episode 2, but it ended up just being this random ghost of a plot that could have maybe been great. I hadn't quite been able to put into words why things felt so off to me about the last couple of episodes so I appreciate your take on how all the characters actions and motivations feel unearned within the context of the show. That's exactly right!

[@Beautydragon01]

*DISCLAIMER*: this is my own personal take, do not receive my words as facts I love Scott Pilgrim takes off, however I can also happily take the flaws that come with it. At one time, someone said,” Scott Pilgrim is written in his perspective, and if it was from anyone else’s, it would be completely different.” It makes me wonder if the reason certain characters were watered down is because that’s just how Ramona saw them. She didn’t know Stephen or Neil at all really, or knives. Maybe their characters were let down, because she never really focused on them. Maybe she simply saw them as watered down? I see 1000 ways how what I’m saying right here could be completely and utterly wrong. However, this is just my own personal take like I said at the top and somehow believing this makes it a little bit easier for me to love the show a tad more.

[@chaoticgoodra]

Thank god, someone else feels the same!

[@dstyKchp]

What's wrong with the voice acting? I managed to watch it just fine?

[@Wigglywarning]

I definitely agree

[@TheLeftistOwl]

I thought the anime was a solid 7/10. I agree the voice acting was subpar though

[@nullvoid3265]

I think Todd's gay awakening serves a metanarrative purpose, more so than it serves an actual narrative purpose. The anime's movie set episodes serve as commentary for the actual real life movie that we all saw. Whatever is talking about o'Malley's distortion of his own lived experience to produce the original scott pilgrim books and movie. Lights camera sparks is kind of a long-winded apology for erasing basically every queer character in the movie. I didn't really like episode 5 myself, but overall I do think basically everything the anime changes (except like everything other than the gay romance in episode 5) makes the story better in my humble opinion. The hair changing is actually one of my favourite parts. The anime plays off the fact that you know that ramona changes her hair "like every other week". It's a cue for passing time. The show gives you its timescale without needing to give you a "2 weeks later".

[@goild.1624]

The comic it's better in many ways but I think you are missing the point, the anime isn't asking you to compare it to the comic, it's asking you to compare it to the movie. Every character are their movie version, hell even future Scott comes from the movie alternative timeline, even the vibe it's more like the movie in the not taking itself so seriously way. Obviously that alone doesn't make all the flaws Scott takes off suddenly good but the anime hints at the end that there's more to come, maybe they use that to develop more ideas the original comic had.

[@cloverstars_]

See, I disagree here. Because if it were asking us to compare it to the movie rather than the comic, why is it that so many character traits from the comic are used over the ones from the movie equivalent? Especially with the Twins. They're proficient in robotics in the comic, and they are in the anime too, but this trait isn't found anywhere at all in the movie. Arguably, it's more of a parallel to the comic in that sense, since there's a lot more recognisable iconography from the comic in the anime rather than anything from the film, beyond the obvious of the voice cast reprising their roles from the film.

[@cloverstars_]

Adding onto this, we see Kim working at the video rental store from the comic which isn't shown in the movie at all, which I forgot to mention in the comment before.

[@amartyakejora5451]

@@cloverstars_ the twins dont have a role beyond the battle of the bands scene in the movie. there's no evidence that they aren't the exact same or similar to their comic counterparts outside of that short appearance. kim also doesn't work in the video store in the movie because the movie doesnt have time to show it, but there's again nothing that says she can't be a video store employee offscreen. the writer will just sychronize some of the details between the 3 versions of the characters, since these are in fact the same characters. this is just basic logic. bottom line is all versions of the characters will have the same basic traits. wether they are shown or not. they are just a given. so the anime characters having more visible similarities to the comics compared with to the movies mean nothing when the weight of the information is too little.

[@MxGerryNava]

jesus, its one of THOSE channels...

[@genesischaparro8954]

Now I understand why the only ex confrontation I liked was Roxie's, it gave actual closure to her and made her anger justifiable. I think I heard somewhere that Ramona changing her hair colour every day was a way to try to find a "her" she liked, and that's why she always had a disappointed face at the end of every dye until the final now; in the context that she doesn't like herself and her habit of running away in the anime, it makes sense. You cry over the massacre of Stephen, I cry over the (continuous) shafting of the Twins! They even didn't have an episode about Ramona using them to get at the idea of "upperclassmen dating a junior", because she could as well tell the second twin who came at her: sorry I'm dating your twin already but no! And that's why in the comic they swore to stick together from then on. And Lisa is again forgotten...

[@rinzzzzie718]

Same here; as much as I liked the anime, I'm so disappointed they didn't give the twins and the other minor characters more scenes and the Lisa erasure 😭

[@Jdudec367]

I mean at least here the Twins in the future DID move on and get some closure there so they did give some time to them clearly.

[@shainahum6717]

i loved roxie's closer, that was a great episode. and i enjoyed the story with lucas. tod and matthew were gags which should've been more than that even though i didn't expect much (cauae honestly those two had the least important influence over ramona). the twins not having an episode even though they were the victims of ramons is such a wasted potential. and gideon was just awfull, actually makes me angry for making that a joke. even older scott though did hit good and was interesting. as for ramona changing her hair, i read it as her running away from herself. and while in the xomics and movie it was tied to the story of her relationship with scott and to her mental state, the anime didn't really had much points of change in ramona during most of the episodes, mostly just in roxie's episode and in the last episodes with scott. so i'm quite ok with showing it every episode to emphasize the theme. as for lisa, as much as i'm really annoyed that again lisa, such an important character, doesn't show up. *again*. honestly, it's less important to me than the twins or scott himself. lisa is very important for scott's character arc, but this show is clearly focused on ramona, so lisa is just, well, less important here.

[@Diegoalfonsocrespoya]

Actually, the odd delivery made me feel I was watching a dubbed anime, it's not the stylistic choice I would have made but it helped the immersion

[@Jp63a]

Yes, it felt off ina good way

[@fork3810]

I’ve never seen a comment section with so many long essay responses, from both people agreeing and disagreeing Think that’s just a really good sign that this whole series is so layered and complex, and that your analysis equally so. Can’t wait to see what you do next James! You’re one of my favorite KZbinr essay-ists

[@Matty002]

long responses do not a layered and complex work make. this is a very flawed view of media and criticism

[@fork3810]

@@Matty002I meant that the fact that so many feel prompted to think about it critically and can have so many different takes on the same piece is an indicator to how rich the content is

[@charlesmontgomery6395]

Before watching Takes Off, I had experience with the movie and the first volume of the comics. Neither of them clicked for me, because it felt like for them to be meaningful, it was a prerequisite to relate to Scott at least a little bit, which I don't. Takes Off struck me as interesting early on because the spotlight was on Ramona, a character who I felt better able to relate to, and who had received surprisingly little attention in my (limited) experience with the franchise for being one half of the relationship it's all supposed to be about. As the show went on, what I found interesting was the question it seemed to be building towards -- is a romantic relationship worthwhile if you know that it will end? Even when the characters weren't explored too deeply, I think the show was at its best when Ramona and her exes remembered what went wrong, acknowledged it, and moved on -- and, similarly, when Scott found out about what *could* go wrong, acknowledged that, and moved forward anyway. In the face of that sort of question, I thought the ending was a cop-out. Ramona "choosing herself" and having some magical transformation certainly parallels Scott's ending in the movie, but I don't know that it had much to do with what the show seemed to be building towards. Takes Off definitely has its flaws. It's refreshing to see some of them talked about; it makes me feel less alone in having criticisms. Hopefully these comments do the same for you, even if they're not all in agreement.

[@Jim21500]

I found it better to think of this as less an adaptation/reimagining of the comics and instead thought of it as a meta sequel like the EVA rebuilds.

[@tobigrantlbart]

Fighting the urge to not talk about my feelings on the EVA rebuilds And I must resist

[@hastur2905]

Yeah, it definitely feels like "Scott Pilgrim DLC for people who already like the comic". I think it would be way worse as someone's first exposure

[@shainahum6717]

i think you said it right. it's not about telling the same story, it's about building a new story with different aspects to it. without the original it doesn't hit the points it needs to, but those aren't the same points like the original. and for the most parts it managed to do so in my belief (both the anime and the movie btw). it doesn't hit as good and as impactfull as the original, but maybe it's because the mess of the original is part of it's charm. both EVA and scott pilgrim are what they are because of the psychi of the author at the time of writing which managed to hit a chord. the adaptations aren't recreation of that chord or developing it into a song, but giving a new chord of their own inspired by thw original one and the attitude towards it.

[@an_apple_a_day]

Excited for part three! I love how considerate of, and how _complimentary_ you are to the original intentions of this comic. It's really refreshing, and It's obvious how much it means to you

[@estebanuniversidad6976]

I remember having the same reaction towards the final band practice scene of ‘’but wait, nothing’s changed?’’ because I have always felt that the magic of the comics was in how it depicted the awkward transition from teenagehood to adulthood in a way that resonated authentically; with ALL of the characters changing and maturing in ways that feel real (all while Scott is slowly left behind due to his subconscious refusal to mature (the actual main conflict of the entire story!!!)) All that to say, I am answering your call to let you know in the comments that I noticed too. I don’t HATE the anime, just as I don’t HATE the movie even though, for me, a lot of the magic of the comics is lost in translation there too. But I get what you’re saying and I was similarly disappointed

[@andleepfarooqui7874]

Yeah! this.

[@morgenwalsh594]

I'm pretty positive Wallace wanted to hook up with Todd because he was dressed as Scott. The creator has made it obvious he likes that pairing, and at least supports the idea of Wallace having a crush on Scott.

[@coatimundi69]

"supports the idea" may be an understatement 😭 he is explicitly written to have a crush on scott in the comics and arguably the movie, since he dates a guy named [other] scott and texts ramona about how hes "drunk 4 u (u = scott)". but i do agree, it seems like his interest in todd was just him dressing as scott. and while he wouldve rejected todd either way since he was still skeptical of having real romance, its notable that when todd gets rejected its when he ISNT in his scott costume!

[@sincerelydeerly]

god do i absolutely agree with pretty much every single point of your video! in the time after the anime came out, i felt crazy unable to find people properly criticizing it, especially in a way that’s deeply in conversation with the comic (as it’s obviously meant to be) so watching this was cathartic AS HELL. my heart is racing in a good way. i was a young teenager when the scott pilgrim series was completed and the movie was already out. when i experienced both, they vexed me in different ways, but especially the comic, which i reread countless times. your original video about scott pilgrim was equally cathartic, as someone who has spent decades deeply thinking about the comic, honing in what i think it succeeds at and where it resolutely fails. i love the anime as a fan of animation. i’ve watched it half a dozen times (perhaps more times for episode 3), and there are so many scenes that stun me or make me laugh or is so well composed, lit, etc, there’s a lot to appreciate. but the writing decisions absolutely vexed my partner and i, who spent hours feverishly discussing all the minute ways in which the anime sorely fails the comic and seems to be trying to give the illusion that it’s more than it really is. at least it feels that way when that is general response. in many ways, to me the anime feels like it WANTS to be silly fanfiction, not taken to seriously. (or at least, until the last two episodes. then it feels like it’s trying to have a deeper theme that wasn’t well set up imo…) in that way, i can also attempt to enjoy the anime, but that shine wears off the apple the more time you rewatch it. it’s all so complicated. thank you for such a fantastic video!! you are most certainly not alone!!

[@ComicDrake]

As a huge Scott Pilgrim fan, I am so glad this video exists. You really nailed most of my complaints, especially from a voice acting perspective.

[@p3r3n5]

THANK YOU for making this video, I watched your video about the original Scott pilgrim film adaptation and really really liked it, made me wanna reread the comics. When I watched the anime, I really liked it! I was excited about the plot twist, realizing it would be NEW and explore new angles. I enjoyed it, I got to the end and was very excited! Seeing people talk about Scott pilgrim online when I had sort of missed that buzz reading the comics as a kid made me really happy! But… yeah, the anime never actually delivered on what it was trying to do, I remember getting to the end and feeling like… oh. I guess that’s it. And I was really concerned that a lot of my friends watching hadn’t even seen the movie at least. It almost feels like it took a whole show just to tell us what Ramona’s original arc in the comics was. It’s like, it was fun! It was really beautifully animated, it was really funny, but at the end of the day I still prefer the comics, it was like… more empty calories.

[@p3r3n5]

I think what I’m getting at is that it really feels like the anime is more of a continuation of the movie than of the comics, and as someone who loves the comics it’s just like. Yeah. This is good but isn’t quite right.

[@strwberry_mist]

I really don't see how the voice acting is a point of complaint, it's super charming and was one of my favourite parts.

[@quantumfluffyflapjack]

Yeah for me the only off thing is that it's a dub but that's intentional to make it look like an anime.

[@joeiechristiansantana9641]

Now this I can kinda get behind. But yeah, I don't get the reference, so much like one of the Game Grumps when reading ClickHole's Quizzes, I wasn't getting it, and just got frustrated.

[@Abbanellie]

Yeah it was really charming and relaxing to me!

[@radioban]

I thought it was subpar and watched the series with the japanese dub instead.

[@chandlerennis688]

I personally think that the ultimate point of the anime was for O'Malley to point out how his own work that criticized the childish behaviors of its main character, was in itself a childish portrayal of a messy relationship. Yes, the original comic did spend a lot more time fleshing out characters and themes and having characters talk about things, but in the end every Ex was defeated by Scott in a fight, and even if the series doesn't portray it as Scott saving Ramona from her exes by doing so, it does perpetuate the trope of violence being the solution to a problem, which is especially strange when you think about it in the context of the Exes being metaphors for emotional baggage. In the new series, the only Ex Ramona fights herself is Roxie, who she still ends up talking it out with instead, and every other interaction with the Exes is non-confrontational, with Ramona either making some kind of amends with them (like with Lucas) or just realizing they aren't worth her time (like with Todd and Gordon), which feels like a far more mature way of addressing her baggage. I think that Gideon is played up as a terrible villain in the original because he represents the emotional baggage of a very recent break-up, but in this story he is played off as a petty loser because he is now "that Ex I let get in the way of my next relationship" which feels more embarrassing than traumatic when looked back on later. Instead of Gideon, the actual boss at the end is a version of Scott who still remembers the "original" timeline and is explicitly more willing to rush to extreme actions to deal with his issues than he is to actually talking about his problems, which makes perfect sense as the "bad ending" for the protagonist of a story where the solution to every problem was a ridiculous anime-style fight. The reason this series doesn't live up to the original is because it isn't trying to do that, it's just trying to make you look back at the original work from a new perspective and recognize that despite all of the great things it managed to do, there were plenty of things it did poorly.

[@AmiraTBH-r6z]

I think that the series is also a comment on how the fans didn't learned anything from the comic and missed the whole point of the metaphores and meanings of things, and then been the initial, worst version, of Scott (the comic) or even been like the Older Scott from the show which represents the older fans that at this point think that are "nice guys" that deserves the girl just bc and doing zero real work like movie Scott or the Scott before the journey he did in the comics. The show is a comment on the disapointment with the fandom more than anything else and I think that second season will be more deep about things, characters and relations taht were left out in this first season

[@jskywalker58]

@@AmiraTBH-r6z i think your just projecting your own feelings onto o'malley, it could simply just be him wanting to do something new with the property

[@josephaquino9101]

Sure it did things poorly but I don't think that was the purpose of this adaptation since it does a lot of things that don't make sense like making Ramona not care about Gideon when he was the one who controlled and manipulated her and basically traumatized her or make the twins seemingly not care that Ramona straight up used them the only one that is seemingly addressed is Roxy but the other exes are just flanderized and treated at face value a best or completely ignored at worse like the main cast

[@satyasyasatyasya5746]

Best beard on essay-tube :3

[@bbaii16]

Thank you for sharing and sorry for what sounds like a disappointing viewing experience. I had a different, more positive reaction, but that genuinely sucks for you given your clear love for the material. I enjoyed the anime a lot overall, but that's not to say your take is strictly wrong or something. Maybe an area of difference is that I saw the anime as explicitly a response to the movie and most of the critical reactions seemed to be comparing it primarily to the movie whereas you are comparing it primarily to the comics? I saw the movie opening day because the comics meant a lot to me. (They still mean a lot to me, but less acutely) There was a lot of good in the movie but part of what I liked about the comics was that they involved a longer time scale which let the relationships breathe and be more natural - Ramona & Scott most of all. The movie couldn't do that (or at least it didn't) and I was kinda unsatisfied as a result, even though its various merits were clear. The movie felt fun, but comparatively hollow and less mature. For me, the anime allowed the characters to breathe sooooo much more than the movie (and in new ways). Knives and Kim jamming was one of the most beautiful little scenes I saw last year. Roxie's conversations with Ramona were affecting to me. Envy crashing Scott's funeral was a GREAT organic way to establish character. There were elements of the movie characters that were brought in, which I sometimes didn't love, but universal Flanderization seems a little harsh. Agreed that there were weaknesses to the anime, but one other thing to consider is that they presumably want to make multiple seasons. That's potentially a cop-out, of course, but I think it's a legitimate reason to focus more on some Exes than others. Why else have so little focus on Graves or the Katayanagi Twins in the central plot?

[@bookworm101100]

i definitely understand where you’re coming from here. i’ve only ever seen the movie (but based on your videos i’m definitely going to change that) so i didn’t expect the anime to leave me with any emotional reaction. i enjoyed the anime because i thought it was cute and funny and it was cool that the cast of the movie came back, but if i had been expecting something emotionally impactful, i’m sure i would have felt the same way you do. thanks for deciding to make a video about this! i know most people online get mad when someone dislikes something everybody likes, but i think it’s valuable to share as many opinions and perspectives as possible. so thanks :)

[@ShinyVaati]

Watching this gave me a bit of pause because I think it helped clicked in my head why the anime felt empty to me. I didn't dislike it, but when the credits rolled on the last episode I at most felt entertained and at worst frustrated that where it ends up doesn't feel earned. The anime then prompted me to completely read the comics for the first time after several failed attempts over the years (I'm awful at finishing things) and I was struck by how rich it was. Aside from a couple of the exes, everyone is rounded out with history and personality and realistically grow. While the anime gives us *more* time with some of those characters who didn't get much before, it was more interested in inventing wacky meta-adventures. Which as you described, is what I remember Scott Pilgrim for (particularly since my primary experience it with is the film) and now I feel as though my memory did me a disservice. Maybe that's what the anime's strength is: a pop-corn entertainment companion piece that makes you want to revisit the source material. From all of the interviews with O'Malley and co, I doubt that was really the intention but it re-ignited my interest and appreciation for this series in a roundabout way. And your two videos have been superb examinations in their own right.

[@onelazynoob15]

I think ultimately you're right in that it's a much shallower exploration of these characters than the comics, and there's certainly a lot of flanderization at play, I think it's still a much better showing than the movie, and is playing more with the expectations set by that than that of the comics. I still enjoyed it as its own thing. More of a fun romp than a deep character exploration, but I honestly never expected this to ever happen so I'm just happy with what we got. (Also I think part of my defense for this anime is all the brain worm infested conservatives complaining that it's woke)

[@imrastar7055]

I enjoyed the anime and while I see your points and can understand them I don’t fully agree with them. But what did resonate with me was you feeling alone disliking something that other people you like and respect love and not understanding why you don’t see what they do. For me it’s a video game, Stray Gods, a musical role playing game. It had voice actors I loved, it’s a musical where your choices change the songs, and it seemed like a cool concept with a modern version of Greek mythology. It seemed like exactly the kind of game I would love. But I played it and even though I wanted to love it, but it was just okay. The songs especially were just… meh. I was disappointed. Then I saw other people praising it, including KZbinrs who I usually love their analysis of media, and while I agreed with some of their points, they praised the story and the songs and I just… didn’t see it. I even tried replaying it with different choices but my problems with it just stood out even more. It feels bad to be one of the few people disliking something, especially when it’s something that you thought you would enjoy and really wanted to love. So even if I don’t feel the same as you in this case, I can see where you’re coming from.

[@CherryDad]

When it comes to the cast, I watched the Japanese dub which had NONE of the voice acting issues

[@CherryDad]

i made the decision to watch it in Japanese precisely BECAUSE of the issues you brought up, but i identified those issues in the trailer, and made the decision from day one. So my entire experience of the story was through the dub. No switching mid-way or anything.

[@erdood3235]

What problems?

[@CherryDad]

@@erdood3235 watch the video lol, the whole "cast" chapter goes over it

[@5000_People]

@@CherryDad 'flat, missing oomph, not all that bad, some standouts, vibes are off' Is all he really says about the dub, so you saying 'oh yes I picked up on those problems from the trailer alone and watched it in my non native language and I could tell, despite not being a native speaker that the Japanese cast were much better than the English performance that I've never even watched' is one of the stupidest takes I've ever seen. And then you go and add to that by being condescending to someone who is simply asking for examples of what you're talking about.

[@htsunmiku]

Haven't watched the video so he probably say this. But It's because the Japanese version has actual voice actors. Pretty famous VA casting. The English version has a lot of actors reprising their roles. Being a good on-screen actor doesn't translate to voice acting.

[@deadxthenobody3700]

I felt the exact same way when Takes Off came out, while I enjoyed it I was kind of sad that I didn't end up loving it like I hoped I would. And it felt like everyone I talked to about it rather loved it or didn't have the same issues that I did/the issues I had didn't bother them as much. I grown up watching the movie a million times and the year prior to Takes Off ended up reading and loving the books, and the reception towards Takes Off reminded me of when I first played Persona 5 and felt bad that everybody else loved this one product except me.

[@NoReplyAsset]

wait.... you actually make a great point. damn, they all are kind of flanderized. Justice For Stephen!!

[@Rakath]

So like with most things I believe the answer is somewhere in the middle. I do agree that many of the changes you point out do exist, but I don't agree that they are a problem. Or more correctly, they are a problem that can be avoided without asking for double the production budget. I'll try to stick to the main items or I'll be here forever. Ramona's Plot/Growth -- Future Scott's use of time travel doesn't matter as much as Future Ramona's equal use of time travel. Rather than confront her husband (they were separated, not divorced yet, because Scott is bad at being honest) she sent a book back in time as a movie script to trick her husband into meeting her again. Which is topical to the change Present Ramona needs to make about running away from the things she loves. And in turn confronting her past (that is relevant) gives her the tools needed to make this change. Matthew, Todd, and Gideon don't matter, because Ramona didn't actually leave them. Not the way she left Lucas or Roxie, which is why those two got the most focus. While she didn't confront the Twins at all, explaining her past with them to the others let her confront Knives, which gives her the same overall information of how that behavior she had was- well, bad. Which is what all three of those beats are for: giving Ramona a better understanding of who she needs to be, and what she needs to avoid, to find happiness. The Secondary Cast -- Much like the movie, the runtime of the series isn't long enough to really give the full depth of any one character. And the best characters in the anime are the two blending elements from their book and film characterization together (Lucas and Roxie). Book Lucas (kind of a sellout but otherwise decent person) turned into Movie Lucas (asshole who pretends he cares about nothing) because his first girlfriend left him the moment a hot vegan came around added something there. And you went over how Roxie actually is a very workable call. Matthew finding the confidence to seek out his dreams because he wasn't a jobber is as interesting as you can really do with a character as flat as Matthew is (he's all style no substance book and film). This extends to most of the secondary cast. So they're flatter, but the space simply isn't there to fully dive into any one character, and if you focus on any one of them you'll have to further remove from the others. I'd say the biggest loser in this is probably Wallace of all characters, who got made into a complete asshole losing all signs he's ever liked Scott (except in silver fox Future Wallace's scenes) and only his worst traits. Stephen Stills was only in situations where he'd freak out, so we didn't get to see that other side of him (again, if there were more scenes we could have more sides to him show up). Although I don't know how fair it is to expect Joseph stuff when my best estimate of the show's timeline is roughly a few months, while Joseph isn't introduced till half a year of story happened. (The timeline is nebulous and I'm going with the Ramona's hair changing every few weeks rather than the jokes most people make of her ruining her hair with daily hair dyeing.) Closing -- I do think that the books have more depth and subtlety to them, but that's how Books work? Like- there's a lot more nuance and depth and subtext to comic book Wolverine than movie Wolverine. But comparing a half dozen movies to fifty years of comics isn't really a fair scale to it. Like- even expecting a 1:1 adaptation of the comics to anime would not really work if each volume had 1.3 episodes to work with.

[@quantumfluffyflapjack]

Well props to you for having a dissenting opinion. I don't agree, but you brought up some interesting points. I think you're right about it being the audience who has changed, but also the creators. When you're in your 20s and a loser stuff has to change. But Bryan Lee O'Malley is 45 now. You hit middle age and maybe feel different about the shitty band and crap friends you left behind. Perhaps there was a way to leave the bad and keep the good, perhaps you were too dismissive, perhaps the girl who got away was The girl. And his career is deeply dominated by something extremely of its time. He clearly wanted to fix it, but also maybe a bit wants to go back. There's a reason it's a time travel story is what I'm saying.

[@pearcivaliadicola2512]

I watched the anime, then read the comics, then watched the movie I like all of them. When it comes to the anime, all I have to say is: you're thinking about it too much, and you're comparing it to the original too much. Just take it for what it is: it's just goofy fun. No, it's not the same emotional story the comics are. And I guess in a way, I'm okay with that. The comedy is really funny (tho I will agree it starts to drag around the movie making arc, but I digress) I like it because I decided to just take it for what it is. I don't think it's completely trash. It doesn't have a lot to say, but as a comedy it's pretty fucking funny lmao. It flanderizes characters for the sake of comedy, and imo it sort of works. If you're a fan of the comics and a fan of some of these characters, I can see why that could bother you. Envy in the anime is definitely not the same Envy in the comics. But personally, I guess I don't mind it as much because I didn't see the comics first. And thats the main problem here: people are so attached to these characters that it makes them unable to take the anime for what it is.

[@ivanmoren3643]

Loved the Roxy episode, after that I was totally onboard. Then like two episodes later we stopped watching. Exploring facing bad breakups and trying to heal/tend to old infected scars through a comic book anime lens seemed like a perfect episodic setup. Didn't have the energy to dig into why it all it was so off, but I'm glad to hear your take. I feel you!!! I have read Seconds and the teenage angst book (both are great!!!), and was a lil unsure about the scott pilgrim comics, but after your video I want to give them a shot as well. My partner really liked them when they read them as a teenager and to be honest they have really really great taste and I want to explore their recommendations more. Thank you! Also your framing device works really well to communicate your emotional journey with coming to terms with how to make this video in spite of having such a discrepance to your peers in emotional reading of the text (hope that makes sense-ish, I'm really tired and have to go to sleep) Hugs!

[@taylorkohls5268]

Could be that the show was more meant to poke fun at everyone's memory of the source material than the source material itself

[@netherfreakultima4498]

I still like the anime regardless tbh

[@jaymchap]

16:44 “it’s like the whole thing was just played for laughs” - to which I replied aloud “uhhh, well yeah.” And I guess that’s the disconnect. I didn’t experience the comics, only the movie, and didn’t particularly feel like I connected with it. But I had a BLAST when the show came out. Loved the first ep, was feeling meh come the second ep when I realized I wouldn’t be experiencing Scott’s story, and then back to fun when I started having a blast with Ramona and Co. (Agreed, her time spent with Roxie was by far the highlight.) While I too felt like they could’ve pushed harder on character dissection, particularly among Ramona and her relationships with the exes, I suppose not reading the comics allowed me to enjoy the tone and presentation a lot more. I was in it for the characters vibing with each other, the stylized fights, the surreal scenarios, and a lot of the comes from innocent nonsensicality. Like, you took issue with characters appearing on Young Neil’s set for no clear motive meanwhile that sparked joy in me, to me that’s a natural function of the world. Whimsical coincidence isn’t for every show but it feels right here. But I completely get being attached to a property and knowing its potential to convey complex issues, on top of having expectations of who each and every character is, and therefore being disappointed by a world that plays things a little looser. Especially when the critics call it a more detailed examination. But as someone who had a blast with the show, I do hold firm that there’s a ton to enjoy when there’s not a comparison-point overshadowing everything, as well as people gaslighting you into thinking that comparison-point was lesser-than. Just a different experience. Apologies on adding to the essay collection, that wasn’t my intention when starting this comment haha. Great video, best wishes!

[@EvgeniiIvanov-w5n]

I watched only three episodes of the anime, watched the film and never read the comics. I do agree: the anime seemed less a responce to the film itself and more of a responce to twitter opinions about the film

[@spiderfan2003]

As much as I enjoyed the anime, this definitely was interesting to hear and I loved seeing a new perspective on this.

[@goregia764]

I quite literally made a essay on this topic for school and the fact I found this video set after the fact is Incredibly vindictive To answer your question , you are not alone in your interpretation

[@RyZGuy53]

I kinda get it Ramona being a bad person then being good the minute she comes to Toronto and then in the final battle suddenly showing a bad trait isn’t very good. Ramona being a bad person to improving herself in the manga is a better ark than the shows. Scott kinda don’t got an ark but it doesn’t feel bad cuz he’s not as much of an asshole as before, still cheats though. Mpdg fits for movie Ramona cuz she doesn’t do anything in that movie. Seeing the Exes acctuly do something compared to dying before anything interesting happens (exceptions being Todd and Gideon) is better cuz characters like Lucas get a personality and become actual characters. Ramona’s ark in the shows still isn’t bad but not as good as in the book. Book Scott and Ramona are two horrible people who better themselves for each other. Sparks make up for the missing love that should have been there, it shows that they truly love each other.

[@poprocks6576]

Look man Romona is the Manic Pixie Dream Girl. I’m saying this as both a girl and someone who’s read and watched every form of Scott pilgrim a 1000 times over and loves Ramona with all my heart she’s my favorite. Whenever people say Mpdg everyone perks up to say I’m actually Summer isn’t or spotless sun isn’t an mpdg. Yes these girls do have personal lives that are hunted at and in some sense don’t act purely for the sake of the male character like the orignal definition says but the thing is perspective. An mpdg is your typical mildly depressed girl with a pinch of autism or adhd (depends on the demographic) who we are seeing and learning about through the male main character. We understand her through her pedestal and it’s collapsing. Romans AMAZING in the comics and obviously has a deep interpersonal life and issues but we don’t get to see those through her eyes we seem them as Scott we learn them with the boy who idolizes her. We are the ones learnt with him she is not a concept she is a woman of her own right, making the show from her perspective literally makes the citism obsolete because we learn about her life from her eyes, we learn about Ramonas life as Ramona now forced to dissect all this baggage. Of your a boy in your late to early 20’s Scott is important to that growth, to have media about how love should be and how to act around and understand complex girls and not idealize them but Ramona is a mpdg she is a girl who lives and dies by how Scott characterizes her till the end