Recreating my 1987 C64 Setup Part 2: My 1541 Disk Drive

[@ronsherr1]

Jan, thank you. I really enjoy the videos that you make.

[@JanBeta]

Oh, thank you for your support! Glad you like the videos. :)

[@boredwithusernames]

Just an interesting fact for your audience at 27:10. The two round holes in the chassis to the left of the hub spindle were for much earlier "hard sector" detection. In the very early days the hub of the floppy disk had a small hole punched in it. The two holes in the chassis would have held an infra-red detector pair and would have detected when the hole passed between them and sent an electrical signal to the board. The software would then determine that the disk had spun one revolution and do it's thing accordingly. Just an fyi fact for you all ;) Showing my age now...

[@TheHighlander71]

I don't know much about tantalum caps. I read up a little and although they appear to be sensitive to abuse, generally they don't fail much if treated normally. It's good to see the possibilities of alternate roms in 1541's. I'd heard of Dolphin Dos but I've never worked with it. By the looks of it, it's very quick!

[@JanBeta]

As far as I know, older tantalum caps are often not very good. The problem is the spectacular (flames!) failure modes so I'd rather be safe than sorry with these. ;) DolphinDOS is one of the fastest there is I believe. Someone still makes an updated version of the DolphinDOS boards, actually. :)

[@scoosie5967]

Thanks Jan! Watching your videos is fun and educational.

[@JanBeta]

Thank you Sidney! :)

[@officermeowmeowfuzzyface4408]

A locking pushbutton would have been a better switch, especially since it wouldn't protrude so. People say UV light isn't required but the thing is, they still have some light, even if it isn't UV. UV has the most energy for mobilization of bromine, and can penetrate slightly deeper than regular light.

[@GadgetUK164]

Another great job =D Glad you didn't swap out those tantalums for electrolytics! I wouldn't worry about them! If they fail they will likely just short the PSU out and just explode (wont be hard to find the faulty one lol) and you can always just replace at that point.

[@JanBeta]

Thank you! Got some tantalums as a donation to replace the old ones before the explosions actually. ;)

[@shiloh6809]

Great video again. cant wait for the next episode! CRT and sparks! sounds like someone will be discharging a CRT tube and recap the chassis boards. I hate having to discharge CRT tubes, it scares the hell out of me every time.

[@JanBeta]

That's the plan. I'm still scared myself but slowly gaining enough confidence to try it. I read a lot and also asked more experienced people about how to do it safely. I sure hope I survive... ;)

[@DOSBoxMom]

Just noticed that your current KZbin avatar image is "Young Jan" from Christmas 1987. Very nice!

[@JanBeta]

Yes, that's me. :)

[@davesclassics]

Thank you for these videos you're making! A real trip down memory lane. I love 'em. :)

[@JanBeta]

Thank you! :)

[@zenhypnotic]

23;50 the scream in the background.... ominous

[@MindFlareRetro]

Great work! Great video series! I have never used Dolphin DOS, but it looks to be quite fast reading floppies. Also, who 'dislikes' these videos? I would like to know their reasoning -- if there is any reason at all.

[@JanBeta]

Thank you Sir. It is really fast indeed. I might make a little fastloader comparison video soon. I'm gathering quite a collection recently. ;)

[@dingdingding7207]

Great one, Jan. Thanks very much. Show Suggestion: Heat Sinks and Micro cooling fans in C64 or C128 :-)

[@JanBeta]

Thank you! Not a big fan of fans (see what I did there?) in old hardware but there's some options I want to look into. I did a lot of heat sinking in previous videos already, though. ;)

[@JanneDXing]

One quite good product to use in winter time or if you don’t have any other UV light is Vanish Gold (I think it’s same name in Germany) Just use it like other retr0bright-stuff and place parts in some warm place like near radiator, sauna or room with underfloor heating. Results are pretty great! It takes some time to work (2-4 days).

[@JanBeta]

Oh, I read about that somewhere. I'm going to have to try that. Thanks for the reminder! :)

[@elamriti]

question do i need 2 jiffydos chips 1 for my c 64 and 1 for my 1541 disk drive ?

[@luciferkjeldsen345]

could you make a video with this copy interface for backup, abc turbo tapes,

[@linkszwo]

cool picture of little Jan Beta 🙂

[@Melroc_X]

Sehr schönes Video, Jan. Wollte die nächsten Tage auch mal meine Kondensatoren wechseln. Sollte man die beiden großen vorher entladen oder ist das bei der Spannung bzw. Kapazität nicht relevant?

[@JanBeta]

Vielen Dank! Es schadet nicht, die kurz zu entladen. Die haben zwar keine für Menschen schmerzhaften Spannungen, aber die Spannung liegt ja auch auf der Platine an und kann da Schaden anrichten, falls sie versehentlich an die falschen Stellen geleitet wird.

[@Melroc_X]

Jan Beta Danke für die Antwort. Hab die gestern mal ohne entladen gewechselt, war auch kein Problem. Hat leider an meinen Problemen mit dem Laufwerk nichts geändert. Naja, zumindest sind die Elkos jetzt frisch. 😉

[@JanBeta]

Schadet auf jeden Fall nicht. ;) Hast du mal den Ray Carlsen Troubleshooting Guide zur 1541 durchgelesen? Der hilft bei den meisten Problemen.

[@DavidRichUK]

Jan great video. Where did you buy the rubber matting with the ruler on. Really want one but don’t know what to search for. Many thanks

[@JanBeta]

Thanks! Don't really remember where I bought it (eBay maybe?) but if you search for "cutting mat", a variety of colors and sizes should pop up. :)

[@jaycee1980]

For your comment about tantalum capacitors - yes you can replace them with modern, low ESR type electrolytic capacitors. The main reason tants were chosen back in the day was that they had lower ESR than regular electrolytics (and low ESR electrolytics didnt exist yet ;)

[@JanBeta]

Yes, that's what I read also. Wasn't too sure (obviously). I have ordered some tantalums now to stay safe and true to the original design. ;)

[@jaycee1980]

Fair enough :) Old tants used to have a nasty habit of failing as a short circuit, and then exploding! Modern tants are better in this regard.

[@JanBeta]

Yes, I've seen exploded old tantalums. Very destructive failure mode indeed. ;)

[@robertdutcher8081]

That is one quite drive now!

[@JanBeta]

It is! I was quite surprised. I don't think it was THAT quiet when it was new.

[@andrewdupuis1151]

I still have 1541 it still works great how ever my 1571 has some reading troubles I had someone put in 2 switchers able use 8 and 9 disk drives meany years ago it was handy when running Geos I clean head still does it

[@DOSBoxMom]

In North America, one might use Dawn dishwashing liquid in a sink of warm water for the initial cleaning of plastic cases. Dawn is well-known for its ability to cut through grease and grime - they even show in their ads how rescuers clean up birds caught in oil tanker spills using Dawn!

[@petti78]

I think a lot of cleaning products are the same stuff marketed under a gazillion different names.

[@DOSBoxMom]

You may be right.

[@JanBeta]

Oh, I think they even marketed Dawn in Germany some time ago. I'll have a look around if I can find any and test it.

[@JanBeta]

That might very well be. There's often different names for products in the US and Europe, too.

[@MrTonaluv]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/gKCcpWiOgJV5nqM

[@vladabuba]

Another great video, thanks Jan. What do you do for a living? Is it anything IT related?

[@JanBeta]

Thanks! No, I’m not working in IT at all. Working in logistics for a clothing company (don’t ask) at the moment.

[@vladabuba]

Ok I understand. However I have to notice that you have skills and experience. I do not know about your plans, but you can be competent and in more than one IT related field.

[@discoHR]

Radiator's temp is too low for retrobrighting. I used PCB preheater to maintain 70°C (measured, preheater was set at much higher temperature) and it worked but the sun does it way faster.

[@JanBeta]

Ah, good to know. It worked for a bit (obviously) but not much. Will have to work out something using higher temp next time. Thanks for the tip. :)

[@HeyItsAppel]

Thanks for these videos, Jan, I feel like I'm learning a lot! Just a heads up, looks like the link to the 3rd video in the description is broken. Thanks and happy New Year!

[@JanBeta]

Oh, thanks! I'm going to change the link. Happy new year! :)

[@tjlazer71]

A tip for easy retrobriting! No need to dismantle the computer or drive. Use a brush and brush on some Conditioner or other Retrobrite solution and place it in the sun. Re apply with brush every 15-20 min for a few hours. All the yellowing will be gone! Wipe it down with some soapy water on a rag to clean it. Done!

[@JanBeta]

Yes, I saw that being done. The problem I see there is that the cases often are crusty and dirty and there's no way to remove all the dirt without disassembling stuff most of the times. I don't think retrobrighting without cleaning beforehand is a good idea.

[@MD0MDI]

I’ve done well over 200 units and in all the tests I found heat to not affect the retro-bright process at all, you need sun light at the least, leaving in a window would help more than sticking it next to a radiator, I used to leave in a window for a week during winter or overcast days, in the end I invested in a RUB box (Really Useful Box) and a couple of good UV strip lights, cuts the time down to hours, and gives a much better result.

[@Seegalgalguntijak]

I've still got some old C-64 parts. Mainly 2 Joysticks (they were a rather cheap model back then, I think), an old C-Itoh Riteman F+ 9-needle printer and the blue adapter for it, so you could connect a C-64 to its Centronix port. Are you interested in that? (I'm in Germany as well, so shipping shouldn't be a problem) Also, I have no idea what these parts are still worth, since the C-64 stuff is still rather plentiful, compared to other, less common home computers of that era.

[@JanBeta]

Oh, thanks for the offer! I must decline, though. I'm running out of space quickly at the moment and I already have a printer (MPS 1203) and plenty of different joysticks here. :D It's going to be worth some euros depending on the state it's in for sure.

[@ncgallagher]

nice hummus container in the background

[@JanBeta]

A friend brought it from Israel. :)

[@klofisch]

Winter ist keine gute Zeit für Retrobriten..... aber zum Basteln schon :D

[@michielvandewijgaart8858]

It looked like you sprayed lithium grease on the cleaned head, or did you clean that off again?

[@JanBeta]

Oh, yes, I think I sprinkled the top of the head assembly and cleaned it off shortly after. Nothing got on the head itself as far as I know. I should really be more careful with these huge spray cans.

[@Treppiede]

I see the SX-64 @16:16, Jan! Planning to do a video on it?

[@JanBeta]

Oh, someone finally spotted it! :D I was sneaking it into shots for the last couple of videos. It's severely broken so there's definitely some troubleshooting and (hopefully) repair videos coming up sometime. It's a huge project, so it might take some time until I get it going.

[@Treppiede]

Ha! I can't believe I had missed it, since I saw all of your last videos bud. Looking forward to the upcoming videos on it for sure! eBay find?

[@artbell259]

How fast does your speed loader run vs the usual speedloaders in software? This is interesting stuff, shortly after release, a C= engineer proposed a new design with two paths to the CPU from the drive, would have improved load times, but cost a little more so it was stopped, a pity. The switch that speeds loads by 14x is amazing esp. since maybe when you a kid you had to suffer with a Tape drive !

[@JanBeta]

Yes, I read about that in Brian Bagnall's "A company on the Edge" recently. The story goes, the engineer (can't remember who it was) implemented the faster serial connection by using more lines on the connector and then the people who designed the manufacturing board layout left out two connections accidentally so that only the slow serial bus worked. The unit went into production and Commodore decided to leave it as is after the first run because they didn't want to lose compatibility...

[@XaFFaX]

I would be careful with vacuuming electronics, there may be an electrostatic spark jumping to the board damaging it. Read about it.

[@elmariachi5133]

Hey Jan! Do you think it is worth modding the 1541 to 240V for increasing it's life expectance?

[@JanBeta]

Definitely! I plan on doing it in a future video. It should significantly reduce the generated heat and increase life expectancy.

[@elmariachi5133]

OK. Thank you. I have already modded my C64's brick with a switching 5V mod. But so I will wait for having the 1541 modded, too, before I'm going to revive the oldie :)

[@ikke1981]

Hi Jan, great video. I saw betabasic.prg on your disk. I can't find any reference to that, except as a programming language for the spectrum. Is there an interesting story behind that?

[@JanBeta]

Haha, no! It's a tiny basic program I made when I first got a disk drive again. It just changes the screen colors and displays a fake "BETA BASIC" startup screen. Nothing serious. ;)

[@Moonbrony]

Nice Pinkie Pie. Great job on the restoration too /)

[@JanBeta]

Thank you! Even more ponies in the next episode. :)

[@Moonbrony]

Yay!

[@maicod]

nice work again ! pitty we live in northern countries huh :) Maybe you should buy a UV lamp for the retrobriting but don't attend the place where it is working or you might get a sun tan and more dangerous side-effects of UV. I did not see you move the new original-rom from the 1541's main board onto its spot on the 'daughter'-card or did you use the one that first did not work ?

[@maicod]

I guess you are watching the 8bitguy as well ? He lives in sunny Texas the lucky ....

[@JanBeta]

Oh, it turned out the ROM was absolutely fine. My guess is that it was dirty contacts. I just removed the socketed chips briefly, sprayed the sockets with contact cleaner and reseated them. Seems to have "fixed" it. ;) Yeah, I should really get a UV lamp some time. Or wait for sunny weather for retrobrighting adventures (which can take ages of course).

[@JanBeta]

I'm always a bit envious seeing him retrobrighting stuff in a few hours. ;)

[@maicod]

yeah but then again we have the nicest dark cold wintery Christmasses

[@maicod]

good to hear the ROM was fine, now you can keep the spare one for future repairs.

[@psyolent.]

Jan, Is Boulder Dash not the best game ever? Love your work mate as always

[@JanBeta]

Yes, Boulder Dash is definitely one of my all time favorites. The game I played the most is actually "Emerald Mine" on the Amiga which is a very good clone with slightly upgraded graphics and smooth gameplay. :)

[@jamesgrimwood1285]

I hope your recreation will extend to having the same elephant curtains ;)

[@JanBeta]

Oh, that's going to be a tough one. ;)

[@HuntersMoon78]

What is the percentage of your IPA?

[@JanBeta]

It's 99.9%. I use the one for cosmetics use because the one approved for medical use is more expensive. :)

[@HuntersMoon78]

Thanks for the answer. I got some 99.9% and I was thinking that it would be too strong for use on electronics but seeing as it's the same percentage my mind is at ease.

[@JanBeta]

I think the higher the percentage the better. Sometimes they put chemicals as a filler in there that can become conductive and be pretty harmful to electronics. ;)

[@douro20]

GEOS would be a good thing to try if the Commodore mouse wasn't such a rare thing.

[@JanBeta]

I actually have a TOM adapter to connect a USB mouse to the C64 (using the adapter for my Amigas mostly at the moment though). Might make an episode about it some time.

[@TheDefpom]

Replace tantalum with tantalum, they have different properties from other types, it’s always best to keep them the same.

[@petti78]

You can put two in series to mitigate their occasional habit of shorting completely.

[@JanBeta]

Yeah, I thought so. That's why I hesitated replacing them with electrolytics. Thanks for clarifying. :)

[@jaycee1980]

The main property is low ESR, which can be met by modern electrolytics

[@Archimedes75009]

And then you can have the schematics and repair / maintenance instructions stating whether or not another type is suitable or not ...

[@jaycee1980]

well the original schematics wouldve stated tantalum but probably not why.. generally if tantalums are being used, it is because the low ESR is important

[@fkthewhat]

I wonder what the 1541 would look like if re-imagined by today's standards? It does look quite over-engineered for its time - I can imagine the modern and more simplified version might look more like a discman where the disk is inserted and a lid closes down on it?

[@jamesgrimwood1285]

By today's standards what we'd have is an SD card reader that contained a core i3 CPU, a few gigs of RAM and a USB 1.0 connection for frustrating slowness ;-)

[@Archimedes75009]

Today it would be a monster truck powered by a huge 1 ton engine, consuming 40 liters per kilometer, and able to drive not faster than 60 kms per hour ;-) Still I love the C64 : the best machine Commodore ever built.

[@MiniWarzone]

Love it.

[@TheDefpom]

Wow you have 36 Petreons... your channel is twice the size of mine, but you have 18 times the number of Patreons, you are definitely doing something right with that, or I’m doing something very wrong!

[@SianaGearz]

Hey look, i've released free software that about a million people used, and i've got less than 36 donations in 7 years of it and tens thousands of hours of work. As far as i'm concerned even unsuccessful KZbinrs have nothing much to complain about.

[@JanBeta]

Mh, sorry to hear that you have less Patrons. You surely deserve more. I assume I just got lucky or hit a nerve with people. It's awesome to have a little extra to spend.

[@abpccpba]

False Assumption your are not Jan Beta!

[@KenjiUmino]

KZbinr "Modern Classic" found out that it does not necessarily have to be UV light for retrobrighting to work. it just has to be SOME form of light. he compared regular neon tubes to black light tubes and found the result to be similar. check out his video: /watch?v=xBS_UEV35W4 - he starts talking about light at 13:30

[@JanBeta]

Oh, thanks for the link. Interesting.

[@KenjiUmino]

you're welcome. i stumbled upon this video a few days ago - hope it helps

[@S1278-q9f]

Dein "HI" klingt so deutsch ;) Und btw. schönes Video :D

[@JanBeta]

Das ist ja auch kein Wunder! ;) Vielen Dank! :)

[@w0nDeR1975]

Jan, you should renew the silicone joint of your shower ;-)

[@JanBeta]

Oh, it's on my list. (Has been for a while...) :)

[@joshpayne4015]

One piece of constructive criticism - it would be more fulfilling as a viewer if you had all of the parts on hand that you intended to use in the refurbishment before you filmed the segment. Having tantalum caps, or the big gigantic caps on hand, for example, rather than alluding to needing to get some and replace them at some later point because you don't have them on hand would be much more interesting for us to watch. While it's interesting to hear your narrative and trouble-shooting, it's more fulfilling to see you complete the project with the parts you want to use. Otherwise I love your channel!

[@maicod]

I guess he had no time to wait for the parts because this project needs to be finished before christmas.

[@JanBeta]

Thanks for the criticism. I wasn't really prepared all that well (obviously). Sorry about that. The whole thing is quite a spontaneous idea and I'm shooting the videos very close to their release date so I don't have much time to order parts. It adds to the "live" feel I like to give my videos but is pretty disappointing sometimes on the other hand. (I actually already have the parts for the next video in the series so hopefully that will be more satisfying again... ;))

[@Liofa73]

I don't agree, it's a video diary of his refurbishment. Often when you are doing a project you come up against problems. I'd rather see those roadblocks and experience them with him. It just sounds like you're an impatient person.

[@WehofnerLP]

Schönes Video :-)

[@petti78]

Nice socks ;)

[@JanBeta]

Haha, thanks. Wasn’t even aware they would be visible on camera. ;)

[@SparksNZeros]

i've always hated it when people use those giant metal pole switches for mods, they look so ugly and ruin the aesthetic. It's cheap enough to pick up cute little push fit rocker switches that do the same job and much look more 'stock' to the drive.

[@petti78]

Or put a reed switch inside and engage it with a small magnet from the outside :-)

[@SparksNZeros]

petti78 but that would risk demagnitising the discs, plus the hole has already been drilled so may as well fancy it up abit

[@petti78]

Hmm good point about the discs :D I don't think it would affect them from way out there but having magnets next to your floppies is not a great idea overall.

[@JanBeta]

Yeah, I think I wouldn't have used a switch like this if I had modded the drive in the first place (plus, I probably would have fitted it on the backside). This was about restoring it to the state in which I received it in 1987 and the switch is the closest I could get. ;)

[@SparksNZeros]

that's understandable, i think i'm just a stick in the mud when it comes to aesthetics, i've gone back and remodded stuff i did as a kid despite the nostalgia of it being a certain way because i was fed up of it being ugly xD

[@JaySmith-cd1ln]

:)