Japanese M3 Legend or Overhyped Camry? - Lexus ISF

[@moonman_8935]

When I was in high school the ISF was a dream car. I went from '21 STI to '22 IS500 Launch Edition to '23 IS500 Ultra White & not my current & rare spec '23 IS500 Infrared with white leather. 2UR-GSE FTW.

[@kevspec]

Nice! I’ve sat in a few 3is with the Fsport seat along with an is500 and man what a difference comfort-wise. Is500 is definitely on my list!

[@josephhaney884]

I bought a 2023 IS500 infra red with white interior, black wheels. Totally love it.

[@2003.K]

One of my dream cars till this day I can't wait to get one this year

[@rockybaucom]

Let us kno what you get bro. I just pulled trigger on a Black 2012 💪🏻

[@rayl1152]

Thank you for your thorough and sensible ownership review. You made some great points about the trouble spots being blown way out of proportion. Great to see you trying out different car brands. Solid content!

[@BWItoATXF]

Good video! RC F has the valley plate leak issue as well. It is roulette on failure or not, beginning around 60k.

[@Toyota4Life]

Why the fuck would this be a overpriced Camry ?? Change this damn title. Bro this hate for Japanese cars need to fucking stop. The ISF is a legend. This title is misleading

[@kevspec]

sarcasm: the use of irony to mock or convey contempt.

[@warkos3591]

Timeless car with a reliable engine.

[@nickkeszthelyi3310]

I have a 2010 ISF with 136k miles. I had the valley plate done in august for 900 from a independent shop. Its really not that big of a deal. My passenger side header is cracked right now and the ticking noise is horrible. Aftermarket options are available but it is going to cost you quite a bit and it is a big job. Would still recommend and isf over an e90 m3.

[@11SecSTionStockSnail]

Get RR racing headers with welded in high flow cars (to eliminate the stink) for tall b the best upgrade you have ever made. (Also their tuning dongle, and intake elbow like JoeZ, PPE, or many others. +40-50 hp easy. And your engine breats easier (runs cooler due to better flowing headers)

[@-mp]

⁠​⁠@@11SecSTionStockSnailRR gets a lot of things right, their suspension stuff is great, hell I run their coilovers on my F and love them. But their off the shelf tunes ain’t it anymore lol. Loi Tune owns the market now, he’s getting IS350s over 320+ whp when RR could barely manage 300 wheel for YEARS. On top of that Loi consistently tunes to close to 30 KCLV while if you look at KCLV on RR tunes you can find a bunch of posts in Facebook or Forums about poor KCLV or the RR tunes making their cars sluggish. You don’t see any complaints with Loi. Like I said RR should be respected for the support they’ve give these cars but their tuning needs work… I think they’ve gotten a bit too comfortable being the sole tuner for these cars and have just been resting on their laurels.

[@11SecSTionStockSnail]

⁠@@-mpI agree with you on the tunes, but then again, as my situation is a bit different, I’m now running RR 780 SC kit on mine with PPE long tube catted headers, cooling upgrades, catch can, Cusco 1.5 lsd, wideband and a bunch of other supporting mods. Obviously I got tuned by them. Their shop is about 30 min away from me (Exton PA) The kclv issue is more on user end I think, as there’s a procedure you’re supposed to do after a reflash, and then your kclv is above 22-25 (anything above 20 is good) My situation is different. I’m not N.A. FBO. I do agree Loi tubes are better especially as while easing rev limiter he’s able to program torque converter to stay locked all the way up there (this was an issue with rr tubes back in the days past 7K rpm) But then again, all it is is more aggressive tune. Too bad our 2UR-gse’s never got popular since 2008, only now JE just starting to make lower compression pistons, and few other companies. Stronger rods (even though our rods are forged) Block guards, there’s even a company somewhere that have made a flap plane crank. (Not much info on that, but hopefully soon) Give credit where it’s due, RR is the only company that was willing to mess around with different types of header designs, intakes, even a larger TB, and so far the only ones making a supercharger. (There’s a small company in Australia that did roots type supercharger on a 2UR-GSE, but with that much torque down low it’s just a time bomb with stock compression)

[@colby3333]

​​​​​@@-mp Did loi dyno tune your car or send a file? RR offers dyno tune but ppl go for the off the shelf. Reflash RD performance has a full e85 tunes for the ISF and no KCLV learning required.

[@anime_editorx8925]

I have a 14’ ISF with 53k miles and I am enjoying it so much! Only complaint I really have is how tight the bucket seats are but I’m just a wide guy. Definitely a fun car but I don’t have much experience with performance vehicles, this is my first one.

[@allenzillmer1917]

ISF is amazing. My RCF gets 27.5 MPG on the highway in Eco mode.

[@allentan5779]

my 2011 on my last road trip at 78mph 356 miles i got 29 mpg love my isf.

[@porschegt2346]

I currently own an is500 and did a pull against my buddies Is-F. He won…. 😅 The horsepower advantage isn’t enough for the weight difference I suppose. The 2nd gen was ahead of its time.

[@diegohooker]

I have an e92 m3 and just experienced a rod bearing failure. Buying a new engine has made me rethink it and get something like an IS F or GS F. The transmission is really the only thing that stops me from them

[@kevspec]

Oh no I’m sorry to hear that. I actually went the other way and am back in a BMW. This time an e91 with full 335is drivetrain swap (n54 dct). When they work, the BMWs do feel better overall and are personally more my thing. I say get the M3 running again and maybe try out a GSF. Really love those, but you just can’t expect it to be as raw and nimble as the m3. Can’t have it all lol

[@diegohooker]

@@kevspec yeah really hard to get that balance. Oh I think I know which car you bought! That thing is sweet. Can’t wait to see some videos on that

[@VersanGetryx]

@@diegohooker You might consider the W204 C63 (2012+ to aviod headbolt issues)! I've had 3 and they are pretty reliable themselves. Lots of parts available and they sound fantastic, even stock. Kind of like a more raw ISF if you go for the sedan. I do have an ISF now though and it's a great car also, not the sledgehammer of the C63 but feels more "tailor made" if that makes sense.

[@devanrogers3133]

These are probably the most reliable performance car with over 400hp money can buy. You can daily drive these and they will last well over 200k miles. The worst thing about all of them though is the cheap ass material Lexus used on top of the Dash and all the door panels.

[@thomasbassett5475]

How can you say that the BMW is the best car ever made and then say that you are not willing to buy one for fear of it breaking down on you costing you thousands of dollars to repair? That doesn't sound like the best car ever made to me. That sounds like one of the worst cars ever made if you are not even willing to take a chance and buy one. I wish people would stop compairing the Lexus IS F to BMW M3s because there is no comparison to those cars because they are heavily flawed and will definitely break down on you costing you thousands of dollars. That to me makes the Lexus IS F the clear winner here because it's made to perform and go the distance. BMWs are just expensive disposable cars that only people who are rich and have a fleet of cars in there driveway can own. Because most people need their cars to be reliable since they dont have extra cars sitting in their driveway to use everyday. There is no point in buying a car that you know is going to breakdown on you for sure which all BMWs are known for that. You made the right choice buying a LEXUS ISF. That car is way better than any other European trash available today. You will enjoy driving more as it will be ready to go anywhere anytime unlike the BMWs. And it will save you thousands of dollars in repair bills for sure. So quit saying the BMW is a better car, it's not. Cars that will die prematurely and make you worried about when they will break down are not good cars no matter how well they perform on the track or how much faster they are off the line. A good car doesnt spend most of its time being repaired and costing you thousands of dollars. Only a stupid person would say BMWs are great cars. Next time they say that to you just smile and drive away from them because your car is still working well and their car is probably in the shop again.

[@Pamsophydee]

Idk it’s just something about the F fenders that I’ve always thought were so sexy

[@canoeshoe]

Poor video title... everyone knows by now this is a beastly reliable car

[@alexstjohn101]

How hard do you drive it to manage 21-22? Do you mean average per tank, or that’s what you’re getting when you’re just cruising and light on the throttle? I normally sit 15-18 depending on if I hit the highway, but to be fair I drive up/down a mountain 6-7mins to work, so half of my driving is uphill lol

[@kevspec]

I’m in FL so only flat roads and 21-22 is avg, hand calc mpg using it as a daily driver.

[@lukegordon8849]

21MPG? Cmon man North of 30? Thats a plain lie.

[@kevspec]

Why would I lie?

[@KMertGokkaya]

Man I need your help. I have a F30. It s about tire fitment. I have a 19 inç OEM Z4 wheels. Can we fit 255-35-19 for front; 275-35-19 for rear ?

[@kevspec]

Those will fit not problem so long as the car is not really low and offset is not overly aggressive

[@kenneth5624]

If this is the daily, whats the weekend car?

[@kevspec]

e36 m3 & e30 325is

[@The_Hulkster]

Bro, the Chevy SS sedan from 14' to 17' are the ones to get. You get a Corvette LS3 and the tremec TR6060 manual 6 speed. Cheap as hell to mod since it rides on the Camaro platform. All you need to do is cam it and it'll sound like the devil himself rolling around bro. Or supercharge it really cheap and you'll be in the 700s easily. It's basically an Australian GM car so it's arguably just as reliable as a Yota. Especially the motor and transmission bro

[@kevspec]

Cool cars for sure, but pretty pricey for what they are. A manual will run you at least $35k, and many sell for north of $45k still.

[@karlmiller5316]

Is a Porsche 911 an overhyped VW - don't think so. Same w/ ISF and Camry.

[@wglgee1347]

This car is just fire at dawn waiting for the master....

[@kingtito9621]

I love the ISF, how is the transmission on this car though?

[@kevspec]

For a 15 year old 8 speed auto it’s amazing. Smooth when you want it to be and snappy when getting on it.

[@11SecSTionStockSnail]

It’s not a ZF by all means, but in manual mode shifting at .1 seconds (back in 08 it was the best even in exotic world) and computer is able to lock up torque converter 100% when shifting manually. As far as reliability, RR racing have bin throwing over 700whp at theirs, and it’s yet to have any problems. Longevity? Plenty of IS-F’s running around US roads with 300+k miles, couple with 400+k miles all original motor and trans. Just do a trans flush every 80k miles and you’ll b fine.

[@KVIZZZZLE]

when in M mode it shift instantly when you GET on it

[@11SecSTionStockSnail]

@@KVIZZZZLE there is a slight delay downshifting if driving at light throttle. WOT perfect every time. I drove friends ZF in an m4, nice car altogether. Still wouldn’t trade for it. Knowing an m4 car s way better at everything but reliability. Him worrying every time if something gona happen to the point where he’s not willing to take it on long trips. and he keeps it mostly stock. As far as reliability of transmission. RR racing is pushing close to 900hp thru their original trans. Regular track days, and lots of RD. Yet to brake.

[@VersanGetryx]

I had a 2015 W206 C63S, and would you believe the 2009 ISF's 8 speed was faster shifting and smoother than the C63's 7 speed? But the ISF is pretty jerky in sport + manual mode. Still it shifts quickly and smoothly otherwise. I can't add to the reliability convo others noted, just feel.

[@11SecSTionStockSnail]

Don’t pay dealer 2K for valley plate lol, I did it myself in about 4hrs, and an $18 gasket maker from Amazon. Not a hard thing to do. Just take your time. Label everything and be very careful with brittle (old plastic) injector plugs. Took me 4+ hrs cause I not only did valley plate. I did head covers gaskets. And high pressure fuel pumps gaskets both sides as well. I mean might as well while you’re at it. Head cover gaskets (about 80bucks, eBay. It’s just rubber) Fuel pump gaskets. OEM parts but also from eBay. About $45 both sides. N then you’re good for another 150k miles

[@kevspec]

Of course, but the average person would not want to take apart the top of their motor and deal with the wire spaghetti in the way. $2k is worst case scenario if yours decides to leak and you take it to the dealer…not bad imo

[@11SecSTionStockSnail]

@@kevspec yeah it’s not much. But again, for those able to not only change your own oil, but if a DIYer is skillful enough for a brake job, or simple bolt ons like exhaust etc. etc. valley plate is not that much more complicated.

[@cot998]

Do the valley plate yourself. I did in an evening.

[@kevspec]

Props to you, most don’t do their own. Cheap job if DIYed, but definitely some skill and experience required.

[@cot998]

I appreciate it. It's easy as can be. I'll do it for you

[@KVIZZZZLE]

call it the sushi coyote ;)

[@Kaizen2013v]

Would you get this over an E92 M3?

[@SNORKYMEDIA]

depends if you enjoy sitting at the dealers

[@Toyota4Life]

I think these look better. They have a better interior also and the automatic here is better then the m3 automatic

[@goldenboy8249]

I'm torn between these two cars myself. I have a 50 mile round trip commute that sometimes requires sitting in agonizing traffic, so these cars seem perfect. I'm erring toward the Lexus for reliability. Gotta have a car I'm not worried about the wife driving lol

[@allenzillmer1917]

@@goldenboy8249 smart - that's what I did.

[@user-pn7bb9dm4p]

經典

[@MD-uu5nt]

Dont e92 M3s sound crap without an exhaust and then if you put a decent exhaust on them the drone is almost unbearable? There is one near me and it sounds great but the drone when he cruises by at low revs at 60mph is horrific. I can only imagine what its like inside. I much prefer the sound of my ISF with Hayward and Scott cat back and PPE headers. RR racing steering response kit makes an enormous difference to the handling feel too.

[@kevspec]

I think many would agree the s65 sounds better, stock and modified.

[@Toyota4Life]

Those M3 are so damn overrated it’s not even funny

[@alanbaxter5897]

2008 bmw M3s are expensive a well.

[@nickkeszthelyi3310]

And slower than an isf

[@kevspec]

I’d say it’s easier to get into a sub $25k e92 m3. The sedans definitely command a premium, so would agree on that.

[@kevspec]

@@nickkeszthelyi3310neither is really that fast. IMO, wrong cars to be talking about straight line racing with.

[@damascus-ut1ee]

⁠@@kevspecSub $25k E90 M3 sedans usually don’t have rod bearing done. Or they say “they’ve been done by previous owner but don’t have documentation”. That’s an instant 10 hour labor cost + $1000 rod bearing kit waiting for you. Throttle actuators and BMW electronics in general give a lot of problems too. That’s why they’re so cheap. The rod bearing issue is a potential catastrophic failure. ISF doesn’t really have that. I was looking at an E90 but they weren’t done, and I honestly didn’t even wanna chance driving it 4 hours back home. With the Lexus, the issues you mentioned are real. But if you’re looking at a used one, do NOT pay a premium if it has cracked headers or leaking valley plate. They were factory defects and should be treated as such in the used price. This wasn’t mentioned either but the dash and door panels would melt on the ISF too. But Lexus had an extended warranty (10 years) on any car affected. Can’t say the German brands do stuff like that, but I could be wrong.

[@Toyota4Life]

@@kevspec doesn’t matter what you consider fast or not the fact is the Lexus is faster than the M3 and that’s a talking point a major talking point

[@uniqxx]

absolutely the worst title you could use on this video....

[@kevspec]

thank you! have a wonderful new years!

[@uniqxx]

@@kevspec thank you. It was honest feedback otherwise the video was good.

[@Toyota4Life]

I literally just made a comment about the title. It makes absolutely no sense the Lexus IS and the Toyota Camry are two completely different vehicles to even use them in the same sentence don’t even make sense

[@MALUNGEL0]

I know how to fix the sound quality issue.

[@kevspec]

What are you running?

[@MALUNGEL0]

Dual 63mm stainless steel from the front cats with freeflow mufflers and an Xpipe.

[@jlgroovetek]

To be fair, E90 M3 isnt that much of a risk. Get the rod bearings done, get the throttle body actuators when they fail. BMW E90 M3 is a more engaging drive.

[@kevspec]

Until it is lol. There’s no argument the M3 looks better, sounds better, and performs better - just have to ask yourself if the much more expensive running costs are worth it to you.

[@sLim88CPC]

@@kevspec it's all subjective. The looks for example, if you're after something more subtle, a sleeper look, the IS-F will give you that. No M3 or C63 comes close. And being better suited for longer trips (if you fit in the drivers seat lol), that's point for Lexus in my book. Reliability, elegance and running costs is just superior, but thankfully not everyone is after that, mor sensible (well, it's a Toyota after all) approach, because we would have their prices proper skyrocketed. :D As long it suits you and you enjoy it, keep it up, whatever you got. :)

[@cot998]

Camrys are ES

[@kevspec]

I thought the Camry was rwd

[@cot998]

😑

[@mobshipa187]

Do the Gsf front and rear brake upgrade. I didn’t that on my 15 gs350 f it’s all black with black Gsf wheels big orange brakes

[@Dontknowshit]

My 23 IS500 only have 4.5k miles think it will last till I die