Jared Diamond - How Humans Differ from Other Animals

[@matonmongo]

Humans also uniquely have 'culture', which includes the values, customs and knowledge that gets passed onto each new generation, so we don't have to continually 're-invent the wheel'. It's how we got this far, by building on the accumulated knowledge and 'culture' of previous generations.

[@joenelson3037]

This was one of the more interesting and provocative conversations. Kuhn seemed to ask a ludicrous question when he posited the concept of ovulation as being potentially cultural versus genetic. Diamond swiftly and logically reaffirmed the obvious reality that ovulation is genetically programmed. However, when Kuhn suggested that sex in private could not possibly be genetically predisposed, Diamond evaded the suggestion by invoking the likely evolutionary causation of ovulation. As much as I am on the proverbial fence, I have to infer that evolution plays no role in social behaviors. Hence, if one accepts causation as a necessity, there must be some other source for the relatively conservative and private conduct employed by humans relative to sexual behavior.

[@roqsteady5290]

As Jared pointed out private sexual behaviour is pretty much a universal so highly likely to have a genetic component. And there is certainly no reason to assume that evolution has no role in social behaviours, otherwise you would have to say social behaviour has totally random origins, which surely isn't the case. For instance, with respect to privacy, an extreme case is those societies that like to cover their women from head to toe in black clothing. That has the clear evolutionary advantage of keeping them out of site of the prying eyes of other men who might want to have sex with them. Maybe that kind of thing arises, because men are genetically predisposed to sequester their women, and the black clothes then become a part of the societal culture that is perpetuated and incorporated into religions etc. So what started out as a genetic predisposition became reinforced into a cultural norm. Certainly, one should not underestimate evolution - evolution is cleverer than you are! (Leslie Orgel).

[@bio7771]

weird 7:30 . i think its bc of the need of protection while being distracted

[@danielturnquist68]

Jared's productivity/maintaining pair bonds explanation of why we have sex in private could also explain in part why we wear clothes

[@TheSilentWhales]

I wear clothes 'cause I get cold if I don't .

[@mattsch21]

@@TheSilentWhales then you don't live in Africa where humans evolved

[@roqsteady5290]

@@mattsch21 But, many native Africans that have somehow evaded missionaries don't wear many clothes. Obviously covering your genitals is usually a good idea, as you don't want them flopping around - many animals have internal penises, which they extend when necessary.

[@jeanettesdaughter]

Daniel Turnquist privacy as a means of maintaining the pair bond for secure procreation makes sense. One would want to preserve ones attempt to procreate. Besides privacy is more protective of the male in the sense that he is entirely incapacitated at the singular ( for him) orgasmic stage. The female being potentially multiorgasmic could conceivably move on to someone else. The situation of mamas baby, daddy’s maybe would be socially disastrous and offer no evolutionary advantage as we are social animals in need of mutual support to secure the offspring for the longest period of all the animals. Privacy as Diamond states is functional. Raises lots of concerning questions about the current state of asocial or non pair bonding! Wonder whether the decline in sexual privacy broadly defined and the increase in pornographic sex - oh come on, we all know what that is - I wonder how this may contribute to declines in fertility, which are becoming problematic in the more advanced, less sexually traditional or “private” societies.

[@MrJamesdryable]

Good subject! Disappointed in the range of the discussion.

[@mrmetaphysics9457]

Although I know that we are animals by nature common sense do not suggest that we are the same thing as lower creatures!

[@zoomzoom530]

Sex is private is also practiced in at least one (social!) bird species - the Arabian Babblers (Turdoides squamiceps). Careful observations, mainly by the late Amoz Zahavi demonstrate that it provides a great reproductive advantage to females who receive the aid from multiple males that are under the impression that they are fathering all or some of the offspring.... The very same explanation can be suggested for humans!

[@stevesayewich8594]

What about the idea of pheromones? There is a study at the University of New Mexico listed in the New York Times called, "Lap Dance Science," showing that lap dancers who are fertile make more tips than other dancers on the pill, menstruating or at other times in their cycle.

[@rleague685]

Sex in private is absolutely not some kind of feature inherent to human sexuality. It arises purely from culture

[@davidhunt7427]

Why _kissing?!?_

[@oliveludicrous]

Dogs have sex no matter the fertility or age of the female dog.

[@phillipschaefer5202]

Terrance McKenna touched this subject in a talk and an interview.. Terence McKenna: The primate tendency to form dominance heirarchies was temporarily interrupted for about 100,000 years by the psilocybin in the paleolithic diet. This behavioral style of male dominance was chemically interrupted by psilocybin in the diet, so it allowed the style of social organization called partnership to emerge, and that that occured during the period when language, altruism, planning, moral values, esthetics, music and so forth -- everything associated with humanness -- emerged during that period. About 12,000 years ago, the mushrooms left the human diet because they were no longer available, due to climatological change and the previous tendency to form dominance heirarchies re-emerged. So, this is what the historic dilemma is: we have all these qualities that were evolved during the suppression of male dominance that are now somewhat at loggerheads with the tendency of society in a situation of re-established male dominance. The paleolithic situation was orgiastic and this made it impossible for men to trace lines of male paternity, consequently there was no concept of 'my children' for men. It was 'our children' meaning 'we, the group.' This orgiastic style worked into the effects of higher doses of psilocybin to create a situation of frequent boundary dissolution. That's what sexuality is, on one level, about and it's what psychedelics, on another level, are about. With the termination of this orgiastic, mushroom using style of existence, a very neurotic and repressive social style emerged which is now worldwide and typical of western civilization.

[@BradHolkesvig]

As long as you have an invisible consciousness that is a part of the whole consciousness called God, you will experience life in all sorts of bodies including many experiences without a body.

[@Picasso_Picante92]

Evidence?

[@BradHolkesvig]

@@Picasso_Picante92 Since we came from invisible thoughts, there is no evidence to show you or anyone else who believes they are real people living on a real planet called Earth. This is why our Creator used visible servants like the one typing this sentence to form words to write or speak, spoken analogies, visions and dreams in the consciousness to learn how we're created.

[@dazzaondmic]

Brad Holkesvig how have we come from invisible thoughts?

[@BradHolkesvig]

@@dazzaondmic In a similar way that all the visible images are formed on a computer screen starting with the thoughts of a programmer. The programmer takes the info from his thoughts and arranges 0's and 1's in computer code for those thoughts to be converted into visible images on a screen. However, our Creator learned how to form visible images without using 0's and 1's. He used vibrations instead.

[@Picasso_Picante92]

Like the “servant” the wrote the above post, I think your ideas should stay invisible. It just serves to pollute an already gullible and uneducated public with unfalsifiable arguments. I’m not a scientist. I own a food truck. But even I take time to down load dozens of published papers by real scientists and research the things that interest me before I make any kind of claim online. Try it.

[@mitseraffej5812]

Human ovulation is not concealed. Human ovulation not showing like a dog or chimp does not mean it is concealed. I’ve had two wives and several long term girlfriends and without doubt when a woman is fertile it shows, mostly by behaviour and to a lesser degree by scent.

[@sanjosemike3137]

Even if you are an atheist, you can look at the data (and there are enormous amounts) that suggest children being raised in the nuclear family with father and mother do better, are more successful and have a better chance passing their own genes. The reason why children from nuclear families are more successful at passing on their genes is that THEY themselves are more successful and they can attract more attractive mates themselves. It’s a repetitive pattern. It works because female human hypergamy is SET UP to look for more successful partners. It’s a pity that feminists have not made this clear to modern females. No matter what feminism says, females cannot escape their genetic programming. Females will always look for more successful males. They may experiment with the rock band drummer, but when they are ready to have children, they will select the lawyer. Feminists want to break this cycle. But females will suffer if they try. We will have an entire generation of single mothers...and older women who are living with 100 cats. One could say that God planned this. Or you can say that genetic programming did, Take your pick. It’s true either way, Sanjosemike (no longer in CA)

[@sanjosemike3137]

Zeke Bean Zeke, thanks for your kindness and for reading my posts. I loved your post. I used to be an atheist but am now a deist. I think it is a “reasonable” stance, given the new science that was not known even 30 years ago. I’m sure we agree on many things, and even if we don’t, I feel honored by your attention. Sanjosemike (no longer in CA)

[@sanjosemike3137]

Zeke Bean We moved from CA in 2017. I don’t usually disclose my location because I post a lot of controversial stuff. Sometimes I swear at people. (But not often) Sanjosemike (no longer in CA)

[@sanjosemike3137]

Zeke Bean I post on classical music sites. Someone alleged I made a “dumb post.” I swore at him. But in my “favor and defense” I expanded and justified my points. I still think I’m right. If I were to “hunt you down” in Miami, it would be to play the “Little Fugue in g Minor” and the Rachmaninov Prelude in g Minor for you. Sanjosemike (no longer in CA)

[@sanjosemike3137]

Zeke Bean I think you have a Miami Symphony??? I played with one once...as an amateur. The Grieg Piano Concerto. Look it up on KZbin. There are hundreds of recordings of it and it is quite beautiful. Trust me. You will NOT be disappointed. Sanjosemike (no longer in CA)

[@hobarttobor686]

embarrassing