LED Lighting System - Jay Leno's Garage

Paul Yarka demonstrates Flextronics' proprietary, energy-saving LED lighting system.
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LED Lighting System - Jay Leno's Garage
• LED Lighting System - ...
Jay Leno's Garage
/ jaylenosgarage

[@Patrick94GSR]

I have a coworker working with FedEx to retrofit their entire Memphis facility with Cree-based LED fixtures. He told me in one building they were spending about $300,000 to complete the retrofit, but they would make ALL that money back in energy savings in less than ONE YEAR! LED's are truly amazing!

[@Knights2theEnd]

I really hate these shady-ass answers. Jay is giving you the opportunity to advertise your product, at least response with genuine answers.

[@CadillaccJ]

Intelligent and Factual answers are shady? 0_o

[@Knights2theEnd]

Jonathan Alerte Jay asked why is the lamp cool yet the material under it is warm. He respond by saying the problem is that the lamp is not vertical. Last time I checked heat doesn't travel down plus Jay said the lamp is cool. So how can the cool lamp produce warm heat that travels downwards? Obvious from the light it emits which the representive says it is not coming from. That is not intelligent or factual

[@yavoslavoj]

Knights2theEnd Both jay and the sales guy were a bit fail on this. Lights like that are out of normal consumer experience, so there is no context for comparison. I looked up the specs for the hioptix light, its claimed to replace lights up to 1000 watts, so its possible the light he was replacing was anywhere from 500-1000 watts, again both failed to say how much. The hipotix light uses 598 watts to produce 61k lumens of light. Even if its more efficient than a 1000 watt bulb, removing 600 watts of heat is no small task, it doesn't disappear into the ether. As hard as those passive radiators work, they will only keep the thing cool enough not to die, not cool enough to feel cold. The back would have probably become hot over time as well but they only had it on long enough for the front to get warm. But heat pipes sometimes do not work well in some orientations so he might have been right about that bit, but still, it got warm because he turned on a freakin 600 watt light. Even a 5 watt led accent light will feel warm to the touch after being on a few minutes, energy = heat.

[@spaminbox]

Jonathan Alerte light = energy. energy absorption = heat. what the guy should have said was the amount of energy the fixture was emitting in the concentrated area is causing the heat buildup on the table, because the thing is designed to be hung on the ceiling and the energy dispersed over a much broader area, 10, 20, 30 feet away, not 6 inches.

[@brook316]

The guy was pulling fancy words out of his ass, because he was on camera. When Jay said, "You mean a motion detector", after he'd come up with some bullshit fancy name, i almost fell out my chair laughing...

[@42222]

What jay actually ment at 5:22... the table gets warm because it absorbs the light energy and turns it into heat, but that has nothing to to with the light source though

[@rokguitarstar]

I've been selling LED's for years and looking back at this video from 2014 LED's have come a long way. This guy's contraption with a radiator and exposed drivers looks like a science project!

[@RWoody1995]

Wow such crappy answers... Jay asked multiple times why the LED was producing heat and the guy just dodged it... its not because of the cooling system... the cooling system is what takes the heat away, jay was asking why there is enough heat coming from the LED in the first place to need a cooling system when LEDs that we commonly know about create no noticable heat at all. its not even that hard to explain, its just because although LEDs do produce a hell of a lot less heat than normal lighting, when you are pushing that kind of power through them they do still produce heat, just still less than a normal bulb of course which is where the 55% extra efficiency comes from.

[@unknown303]

That guy sounded purely like a salesman, no technical knowledge. He probably didn't know what Jay was even asking so just defaulted to a scripted response.

[@WayneStark626]

Thanx for explaing dude.

[@mabamabam]

The "it is only hot because the light isn't vertical" bit was so stupid. My guess is the boss wanted to meet Leno so he pulled rank and we got this crap rather than someone who actually knew what he was talking about.

[@groenekever]

and objects wil warm up bij light. black absurb light and wil be warmer then white

[@harirai8860]

megaspeed2v2 To answer your question Jay, The surface is hot because the unit is not in its proper position utilizing the radiator to absorb the heat, therefore energy is escaping through the photons in the LED and the LED is twice as efficient at a close radius it;s almost acting like a magnifying glass.

[@Steveraxx]

Wow, amazing improvements in lighting. More light with less energy input! Thanks for this segment!

[@toddhupp]

Jay: You are doing a huge service to American manufacturing.Thank You.

[@Patrick94GSR]

My company's electrical engineering consultant said they have a sample of one of these in their office. He said it's a beast. :-)

[@ricovali9245]

Your guest has a great sense of humor.

[@MyUsernameIsAlsoBort]

It bugged me how he dodged why the table got warm from the fixture. It's not that complicated- while the LEDs themselves do not get that warm from working, the table got hot because the light coming from the LEDs was concentrated on a spot, which created heat. So the LED units don't get that warm, but the light they produce is still light, and it will heat things up.

[@emiliorescigno]

"I have no idea how it works, all I know is that it's made in America, and that's why I like it." Jay Leno is my hero.

[@youtubasoarus]

I'm seeing more and more commercial properties converting to LED. It's really neat because you can't really notice it and the light is actually slightly more intense and it looks good. I also see store front signs being converted from NEON to LED. Really interesting time. It's awesome because as he mentions, it's twice the light output but half the energy consumption. Fascinating.

[@richardfraser4023]

Look for Luminous efficacy on wikipedia... the main advantage of LED is the lifespan of the lamp and the colour spectrum that the lamp produces,,, if you really want Luminous efficacy then go for low pressure sodium but the quality of the light is poor, the bulbs don't last that long and take an age to turn on with a high starting current draw.

[@tgravert]

Flextronics bought and paid for this. I've been trying to get Jay to contact me about our systems since 2008. Our systems are over 50% more efficient than these. These guys literally need a radiator to stay cool? Despite this monster radiator, these guys still cannot prevent light loss as we have been doing now confirmed over 75,000 hours in our longest running systems.

[@MrKeyboardCommando]

I seem to remember, back in the day, Jay used to assess cars like Bugatti, Aston Martin, McLaren etc. I really miss those days.

[@thegoldensaber4531]

Dang, you're missing out, Jay. You could grow some killer smoke with those sodium lights lol. You could probably sell those to a grower in your area for good money.

[@dannydaw59]

I don't think those old lights emit ultraviolet light for photosynthesis in plants.

[@thegoldensaber4531]

dannydaw59 I'm no expert, but I do know almost all indoor growers use high pressure sodium lights. I'm not sure if there's different types of sodium lights, but sodium lights of some kind are definitely used.

[@flaplaya]

dannydaw59 He's correct man. Metal Halide for growth/HPS for flowering. I grow tomatoes and lettuce and stuff

[@ggill1313]

I like this branching out into different, but related products! Keep it up!

[@richardfraser4023]

In the UK the local councils are replacing street lights with LEDs, the light is very white and natural in comparison to the low pressure sodium lamps that are the most common lamps used over here. It actually works out cheaper in the long term to replace the lamps even if the councils are burrowing the money to replace the lamps. The life span of a low pressure sodium lamp is 18,000 hours vs 200,000 hours expected for LED if the lamp assembly is kept cool, hence the big radiator on that unit and the good small ones also have big heat sinks on the back. The lamps in Jay's garage are mercury vapour lamps that give a good white light after a warm up period, they are not as efficient as low pressure sodium and there are environmental issues with mercury, the bulbs should be recycled but often they go to landfill.

[@iantownsend5480]

Cheers for the video Jay, can't wait until Monday for your next one

[@Eddiecurrent2000]

This guy didn't seem to know very much about these lights or the technology, the reason the table got hot was simply because of the light energy being absorbed by the table and causing heat to be produced. What he said about 200,000 hours may not be true because he didn't mention the lumen depreciation at that point could be approaching 70-80%. In fact many LED luminaires say that they give 50,000 hours to 70% of initial lumens. Consider that this lifetime figure is only twice that of high pressure sodium lamps which can be replaced without replacing the fixture then is it really a saving? Considering the LED fixture is more expensive to begin with and has just over twice the lifetime of a cheaper and easily replaceable sodium lamp.

[@JSchrumm]

Paul is the middlemans middleman. Great gig.

[@alfievann9312]

That was interesting. Thanks for the upload and changing topics for a bit.

[@justchilling9442]

I am loving how so many people here are getting so passionate about LED garage lights lol

[@sigmaprojects]

My garage is hot as it is and the LED lighting for the amount of light it produces is great. Plus they take up less space.

[@jack002tuber]

The museum will be coming by for your old lights.

[@laudawson1443]

Very Good design LED lighting!

[@ROTORHEADPR]

On the next episode we will be re inventing the wheel for you guys ! ! ! Thanks for whatching

[@stevenswm9844]

LET THERE BE LIGHT!!!

[@dannydaw59]

Were those old school transformers in that new led fixture? I'm talking about the 4 rectangular black boxes with the bar code on them. I've seen those in every fluorescent light fixture I've worked on. They last like 2 or 3 fluorescent bulb changes and then they just tend to not work anymore. I'm skeptical that they'd last 200K hours. They also emit heat when they step up or step down the voltage.

[@messianicrogue]

LED man is not good at pitching his product - he's using double talk and pedantic banter to give the impression he has something unique and 'different' - when all he needs to say is these are funky talking point lights that make you feel like you're saving power and supporting newer technologies. A radiator and an LED array - the sports model will have a wing and a spoiler.

[@BenLeBlanc1]

congrats on your nbc spot!

[@emmmanuel501]

Love your channel 👍

[@Knights2theEnd]

Jay, increase the volume of your videos please

[@TechTimeWithEric]

At the plant where I work we installed all new LED lighting, something way different than these. Right now we have about 2/3 of the plant converted and saved $30,000 on electric for 2014

[@davidbrandenburg8029]

next thing we know and Jay will be doing grow light videos

[@rileyromano3181]

Ill take some of those lights!!!!

[@bmwmsport11]

The lights in Jay's garage is probably worth more than a LaFerrari.

[@scout2nut]

the shop I work at had the old sodium lights, they are slow to light and had a horrible transformer buzzzzz that would drive you crazy, we replaced them with 6 lamp t-6 flurescent lights that give awesome quiet, instant on lighting, its been over 2 years and have yet to replace a bulb and I am told use a third less power and cost a fraction of what the LED cost.

[@465maltbie]

Who gets to pull those down every year and dust off that heat exchanger. In my shop the spiders would love all those nooks and crannies...:) Still neat technology, I wonder if they ever thought about using a parabolic array instead of the flat array?

[@richardfraser4023]

Maybe use an air hose, but stand back for the dust...

[@geedubb2005]

my guess is there's probably not all that much dust in Lenos garage. Secondly, I'll bet they have at least one man-lift if not more. The garages are staffed pretty well. It creates jobs!!!

[@mayagrafix]

Great episode! 1'm learning green technology thanks to my love of cars :>)

[@Fektthis]

I know some guys in the "agricultural marketplace" who would be interested in your old high pressure sodium lights. XD

[@blueribb99]

I thought Jay already upgraded his lighting on an earlier episode. Maybe it was in another "wing" of the garage. :)

[@Papa7Bravo]

I've seen more efficient lights on a Baja truck, lights up like daylight and it is just a bar, I understand that them lights are mounted on a moving truck but still, you shouldn't need radiators for something that uses that little amount of LED's... why not space the LED's further apart from one another? That'll generate less heat, dissipate the light better instead of it all being focused.

[@natrone23]

This light is for a large building like jays garage.

[@splewy]

The one lamp in this video is way more powerful than most automotive LED light bars. They can produce as much as 90,000 lumens, whereas even some of the biggest, highest end automotive LED light bars are only putting out about 1/3 of that. The more light, the more heat.

[@guybrushthreepwood9463]

How do you know they're more efficient?? Do you know how much watts they use per lumin output or how long they last?? The better off-road LED light bars I've seen are 300W and produce 20,000 lumins. They do have heatsinks on the back side and some may have cooling fans in them as well. Then again as long as you're moving they would have air flow over the cooling fins I guess. But it's not uncommon for automotive headlamp LED's to have a cooling fan in each pair. modern LED's do get very hot. These are meant to last 200,000 hours or more at 60,000 lumins and go up to 90,000+ so they are a lot brighter than the truck ones you're talking about and probably will last a lot longer too! They seem much brighter on the truck because they're in reflectors to focus the light outwards into the distance. You don't want that for indoor lights. You would have blinding bright spots scattered around the building and most of the rest of the areas around them would be dark.

[@srercrcr]

Guybrush Threepwood 300 watts is very high electric consumption

[@richardfraser4023]

***** A lot, if not almost all, of the heat does come from the LED module its self. The power supply will be about 90 to 95% efficient in a lamp like that one, its similar to the power supply in your computer. The bulb module its self will be about 10 to 13% efficient, the rest lost as heat

[@xcofcd]

The LED light looks like a part of a spaceship

[@andersbyraab-flyttattillos1041]

I Jay likes it, I like it!

[@SIMKINETICS]

5:23 Paul's answer is misleading & incorrect. The table surface gets hot because of insolation, the conversion of absorbed light energy to heat on the surface. This is why we get hot under direct sunlight. Jay needs to learn some science, especially when this program is about engineering.

[@sikhswim]

Physics 101 people. That smarmy salesman doesn't get it :)

[@Kosmonooit]

I was just about to to say .... if they put some Al foil down there on the table or if it was a white reflective surface, it wouldn't get hot, The salesman didn't answer or simply didn't understand the question, you can't blame Jay.

[@Kosmonooit]

Kosmonooit And thanks Jay I am really enjoying your 'Garage' programmes.

[@friggetyfuck]

Best waiting for OLED panels

[@231flash]

Jay, at 2:50 into the video PLEASE straighten the pictures in the background !! They're driving me crazy like that. Thank you....

[@gary8t88]

LOL O.C.D.

[@bluetick1528]

Did you notice the Grape Nuts?

[@dcinhere]

Blue Tick I did! But then again my folks love Grape Nuts so I noticed it right away.

[@bluetick1528]

***** I lost track of what the guy was saying when I saw the Grape Nuts, lol. Talk about OCD... I know Jay has a full kitchen at the garage, but I don't think that's it.

[@bluetick1528]

Nah. Overly focused, maybe. You have to admit, the guy wasn't that interesting.

[@skycarl]

Alas Paul Yark...... I hope some got that lol.

[@hydrofuelincanada]

Take that rebate and pay your power debt back to Canada .

[@StevieRay9O]

In the '80s I worked in a retail shop that used smaller sodium lights than those, but they would get so hot that the solder on the end of the ES fitting would melt & there'd be nothing for the contact to touch so they'd stop working! As those bulbs weren't cheap & I was handy with a gas-torch, I'd build the solder up & they'd keep going until they burnt out! &B^{D?

[@KevinSmith-qi5yn]

"It looks like something from Aliens or Bladerunner." SOLD

[@dennisdonovan4837]

Mmm... Based on my own questions and concerns about the "spiel" given on this product and a cursory read of the comments so far, I would think everyone concerned, including the company that manufactures this product, would be better served with a remake. Seemingly a great product idea headed in the right direction but just not enough information on the science behind LED technology and how useful manufacturing is accomplished for applications such as this. Jay?

[@billdickerson2228]

My thoughts - LEDs operate worse, are not as efficient when hot. They don't do well in a hot shop. And, heat adds resistance. If they work to keep the LEDs cool, they are more efficient. You'll get more light from them when cooled. A passive or thermo-siphon cooling system like that isn't much different from some of the early CPU coolers I've seen on "Pentium" processors. LEDs run hot- but not as much heat output as a MH light and LEDs keep putting lumens out while other lights decrease in actual light output with age.

[@Bryan88pgt]

Jay, I'll take all your sodium setups for my shop, please pm with info on how to get them. It will be better than the fluorescent bulbs i currently have.

[@Xxmyarek17xX]

T5 lighting is pretty nice to have. just dont see commercial building upgrading when money is tight

[@twistedsymphony]

Jay asked twice WHY heat was was being produced by supposedly non-heat generating tech and both times the guy failed to actually answer the question.... I still want to know; I thought LEDs didn't generate heat. Is it the driver circuits that get hot?

[@richardfraser4023]

The LEDs still put out plenty of heat as well as the light, and those were very big and bright lights... if that was a tungsten lamp the table would have been a smoking mess...

[@PistonAvatarGuy]

He did fail to answer that question pretty badly, but you also misunderstand what's happening. The LEDs themselves were not getting hot (yet), but they were producing a large amount of light energy, that light energy was being absorbed by the surface of the bench which resulted in the heating of that surface. It's the same reason the sun warms the Earth. The actual heat from the sun is not reaching the Earth, but the light energy from the sun is absorbed by the Earth and turns into heat. Even if you had a light source that produced zero waste heat energy, it would still be capable of making things hot with the light that it produced.

[@Rohkii]

They do generate heat, not in the same way as Incandescents, The Resistance through them creates heat, but its not giving off heat in the form of IR radiation, its the light itself that gets warm, and you want to have a radiator for lots of them otherwise the light output and color will change with the temperature.

[@yavoslavoj]

Difference is that it uses 55% less energy. So like an oven that runs at 720 watts instead of 1600 watts, its still going to be hot. The only way something using energy is not going to feel hot is if the heat is massively drawn away some how with a cooling system, it still exists but its being removed, but on the front side of the light, where the heat is concentrated there will be residual heat even if the majority is being drawn away by radiators on the back. Looks like some kind of passive heatpipe system, not some kind of crazy refrigeration unit that can completely nullify that level of heat output. According to the hioptix specs I looked up for that unit, its supposed to replace a light of up to 1000 watts. So even if one claims 55% improvement you are talking about dissipating 450 watts of energy!! Of course it will be hot, its a crazy amount of energy going into that system. So yea, the sales guy should have explained it better. Even one of my 5 watt led accent bulbs gets warm, its 5 watts of energy flowing through it continuously, its not magic. Energy = heat.

[@hawkermustang]

Martin Ebdon Yes I could see those radiators clogging with dust overtime especially in a dusty work place and that could cause the electronics to overheat and the light to fail. Better keep those things clean.

[@ajtronic]

"I have no idea what a lumen is, but this is twice as much as that." MAN-MODE

[@spoofus007]

It would be cool if you could have a regular and high beam in this product.. Just a thought.

[@nicksfans]

I doubt the old lights were sodium...those put out a dull orange color. It's much more likely that they were metal halide, which is a common light source for large-scale indoor lighting applications other than fluorescent.

[@77appyi]

i can see the radiator clogging up ..the heat from the light will make a themal of hot air that will rise taking dust with it so will not be maintenance free

[@ramunesoda73395]

He likes it because it is made in murica very interesting reason.

[@MOTOUK1]

I happen to work for a led manufacturer in the us sand to claim 200,000 hour life come I who is he kidding! Check the data sheet for the Cree LEDs he uses in the fixture and you will see a different story. Claims can only be made from lm80 testing and I doubt if the have 200,000 hours actual tests as the LEDs have not been available that long!

[@northernlighting3922]

The highest rating up to date today on a fixture is 80,000 hours drivers fail much faster than the diodes do otherwise LEDs can last up to 100,000 hours people make claims thinking the average joe will fall for it and unfortunately they do.

[@sage11x]

Two boxes of grapenuts in the background. Yum.

[@bredlo]

"Alas, Paul Yarka!" LOL #Hamlet

[@deme7063]

Jay! Do you even read these comments?

[@Three6GMC]

What happened to the Titan LEDs that were installed in the shop awhile back?

[@flaplaya]

That is one beast of a fixture... Bet they cost an arm.

[@Mladjasmilic]

I expected for them to talk about car LED systems (like headlights) .

[@bradders3535]

So does the LED use 55% of the energy of the sodium light, or does the sodium light use 55% more energy than the LED? Because those two things aren't interchangeable but this guy said both of them are true.

[@oldmikeemerson2411]

So Jay have you noticed an accusal reduction in your maintenance bill and your electric bill, with the installation of the new lighting?

[@hanky97007]

I love hearing claims of LED's lasting 100k or 200k hours. Read the packaging they all say "up to." Super bright LED's 10,000mcd and above may last 10,000 hours or more, but lets face it nobody is tracking hours at the consumer level. I like using CF blubs because they're cheap now and use about 25% compared to a regular blub. LED's technology is new and the price is high hence the incentives given by the utility companies. My 2 cents added.

[@StevieRay9O]

Problem is that these high-output leds are relatively new & many of the top quality leds can only have a calculated 'lifetime' put on them because they haven't had long enough time to test them! However, there are lower quality leds that are sold with specs that are very optimistic, but questionable!

[@crownvicca]

LED technology is not that new and is 100% more reliable that incandescent of fluorescent lights will ever be. There is nothing to break. It's a diode. Poor solder joints that hold diodes to the circuit board will likely fail before the diode ever does.

[@hanky97007]

StevieRay9O I have many LEDs from the sixties still functioning as panel lights. Back then they had no specs as to how long they lasted. We just used them. Cost back then was a few bucks for one now days that same LED cost a few cents.

[@hanky97007]

crownvic .ca True. I just glad nearly all the LEDs made today come from China. Research what it takes to make one and the chemicals used.

[@Patrick94GSR]

Most CFL bulbs are junk really. Many in my house are going out after only 2 years. Regular T8 fluorescent tubes are great, but CFL not so much. LED's are promising, though.

[@odiggler]

So the new light is 55% more efficient that the old one, but it generates way more heat. That means that now you have to crank up the air conditioning, which means that at the end the savings become a wash.

[@89sirmonk]

these are cool but... whats happened to the sp250? haven't seen anything in a long time.

[@ATomRileyA]

Although leds are great, Tesla's Inductive lights will last 100k hours, instant on, 90lumen per watt. plus dont need a watercooled lamp system.

[@henchicken1]

How often do i have to change the antifreeze!

[@Bobbydog66]

I swear this video is really old, i thought all the older videos from the original website had already been posted, but I guess I was wrong.

[@ianstyp]

I wonder if he gets a lot of Hamlet references

[@stinkbandit]

MMMMmm! Grape Nuts!

[@anthonyzarlenga5282]

did i miss how much they cost? or I would fall over if they said?

[@biglight9]

Is this rated L70 or L90 and what is the warranty for this?

[@cherry01995]

How much do you want for one of thoes sodium lights with shipping to 54215?

[@Hoverbot1TV]

OEM guy that re-markets asian tech LOL! if the LEDS were made IN US the company may be onto something but....

[@badapplegarage9639]

one word HYPERICON. GO BUY THEM NOW.

[@hyperlogos]

Why on earth are those radiators not painted or anodized black? They could probably be 33% smaller

[@mustangscobra1]

what car is that?

[@bikekid11]

Does anyone one the cost of that particular light? Also most utilties in my area are switching to LED. so it must be cost effective.

[@voodoomelons]

25 years and only a 55% improvement on power consumption? Not very impressive.

[@TonyisToking]

55% improvement for 2x the brightness. I'm sure if you turned it down to 30,000 lumens it would be much more efficient. Also keep in mind that the 55% figure is based on power consumed while running, the amount of power used to heat up the old lights on initial power on is staggering.

[@voodoomelons]

TonyisCreating Good point, dropping to the same light output could make it notably more eefficient But double the lumens doesn't equate to twice the brightness. It would probably have to output over 100,000 lumens to be visibly twice as bright as the sodium offering.

[@junits15]

every little bit helps though!

[@PistonAvatarGuy]

Really you're looking at a three to four fold improvement in efficiency and you have a light that will likely never need to be replaced, I'd say that's a pretty major improvement.

[@srercrcr]

Voodoo Melon No, lumens is a unit of measurement of light output so your statement is false.

[@DripDripDrip69]

how's the color rendering index value?

[@richardfraser4023]

Not as good as sunlight but better than the mercury vapour lamps he was using

[@pdoggy10inch]

Not a bad light for 300 bucks!

[@SirDrinksAlot69]

"Convecton cooler" + is too abstract to patent, but good try though! We can thank the Supreme Court's decision on Alice Corp v. CLS Bank for crushing this kind of bullshit patent. He probably didnt realize he just said something stupid, he took the safe "Yes we own the patent on heat pipes" route.

[@mWaffen]

Thanks Jay for the questions and info. This representative could not sell water to a person in a desert, who is dying!!!!!! He probably has practiced his 'pitch' at funeral homes to the dead.

[@454chevy454]

I'll take the sodium lights for my grow Room

[@OberstGenosse]

do you own a vw porsche 914/6 jay ??

[@Blazer02LS]

Looks like a sealed thermo-siphon cooling system. Wonder what the actual coolant is.

[@northernlighting3922]

200,000 hours ya right hahahahaaa

[@iwng54]

Paul has no idea what the gigantic heat sink is for.

[@dogz1879]

he looks like Lil' Jay.

[@emboosdad]

What's up with the Grape Nuts?

[@rockstopsthetraffic]

What are there, like four ballasts? And a huge rad, with no reflector? Not to mention the flicker and inconsistent colour temperatures. LED still has a little bit to go.

[@PistonAvatarGuy]

Not ballasts, drivers, and they're much more efficient than ballasts. The radiator keeps the LEDs cool so that they last an extremely long time. No reflector is needed. Most modern LEDs wont flicker. I have absolutely no idea what you mean by inconsistent color temps, LEDs are extremely consistent. I just converted all of the fluorescent lights (T8s) in my dad's shop to LED, they're absolutely fantastic and his power consumption went from over 900 watts to less than 300.

[@yavoslavoj]

idontcare80 Yep . I think he only has experience with very cheap led, those are not binned for color temperature. I remember getting a couple led maglites and some were warm and some were blue... led is entirely directional, which is bad in a some lamps but for a down liight , doesn't matter. but in a lamp with a shade type normal use, those bulbs use reflectors to evenly disperse the light like the old school lights.

[@groenekever]

ship the old ones to me ;)

[@killerhertzmercedes]

Is that the best design they could come up with? Its huge and looks like a prototype. Poor pitch as well.