Jeff Pilson on what made George Lynch SNAP During Dokken's Tooth and Nail, "It went horribly awry"

2024 full in bloom interview with Dokken/Foreigner/The End Machine bassist Jeff Pilson. Jeff talks about the drama surrounding the recording of Dokken's 1984 album, Tooth and Nail, Tom Werman, George Lynch, Don Dokken, Roy Thomas Baker, Michael Wagener, and Geoff Workman.
Jeff Pilson PART 1 - Talks Don Dokken's "MASSIVE" Drug Use:
• Jeff Pilson on Don Dok...
Jeff Pilson PART 2 - Slams Don Dokken Claim, "Desperate and Weak":
• Jeff Pilson Slams Don ...
RELATED INTERVIEWS:
Tom Werman Talks George Lynch & Tooth and Nail:
• Dokken 'Tooth and Nail...
George Lynch Talks Tom Werman & Tooth and Nail:
• George Lynch on Tom We...
Don Dokken Talks Tom Werman, Band Issue, & Tooth and Nail:
• Dokken 'Tooth and Nail...
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Intro & Outro by FOOL OF FATE
#dokken #motleycrue #georgelynch #queen #foreigner

[@cowboysnoteggheads]

Jeff Pilson is the most reasonable and accountable voice is this whole story. Bless him. I loved the album. It changed my life if I'm being honest. I just kept reading the album liners and asked myself who the hell is George Lynch -- he sounds amazing.

[@SKRooU2]

you mean you never heard any songs from Breaking the Chains or Under Lock and Key before you heard Tooth and Nail ?

[@Pudge4400]

​@@SKRooU2Under Lock & Key came after Tooth and Nail. Tooth and Nail was Dokken's first mainstream release. Breaking the Chains had a limited reach early on and only got "re-released" so to speak, after Tooth was so successful. At least that's how I remember it. I only became aware of Breaking AFTER Tooth hit big.

[@SouthJerseyMatt]

I never thought I’d know so much about the 80’s rock scene, thanks ‘full in bloom’. All these details make the songs new again in a way

[@dwade6322]

Pilson has NEVER sounded like a bitter,or petty person. He is articulate in interviews,and i believe anything he says about the past. 👍

[@robpaxson4455]

Reading Werman’s book now, he said Jeff was the peacekeeper between Don and George, and later between Jason Bonham and Zakk Wylde on the Rockstar soundtrack

[@gun_toting_lefty]

Yes, I can ALWAYS listen to Jeff about the past and learn something useful and new. George or Don? There's ALWAYS a "here we go again" moment of bitterness. I can't listen to their interviews anymore. Thank God for Jeff [and Mick].

[@insidethemusicalmind7207]

I've interviewed Jeff Pilson. He is absolutely a very nice guy and of course tremendously talented.

[@wordragon]

To summarize, Jeff admitted he created a fake tape that made George believe Tom was saying untrue things about him, which is pretty evil. He admits it now, but doesn't want to go into details because it would affect his career with people that follow him today. Jeff admits Tom was bullied and deserved better being the only pro in the room. Jeff and George agree that tonally the Tooth and Nail album is shit. Tom was right all along and Jeff admits it 40 some-odd years later. Cut BS phrases in-between parts to make it seem like Jeff wasn't the main player in the scandal, lol.

[@SKRooU2]

@@wordragon but doesn't Jeff say it was an obvious practical joke? how is that 'evil" ?

[@davidellis5141]

Working with Tom Werner , Geoff Workman & Roy Thomas Baker all on one record & it better be a hit !

[@WAM4EVER]

Jeff is definitely the voice of reason.

[@adampaul4566]

😊🙃💚 JEFF.... WE LOVE YOU YOU ARE Sooooo Honest..... You're the BEST‼️.....( I saw y'all on the Dio/Dokken tour in Houston.... Best Mementoes of my Youth‼️‼️💚🌄 Thank you✨

[@MrFRO4484]

He wasn’t very honest when the prank blew up in his face

[@scottlasley4593]

Another super cool interview! Love this so much! Thank you 🙏❤

[@stevetheplumberbreeding7402]

Thanks for the great interview with Jeff! I think he's a great guy and bass player 👍 I saw them here in St Louis opening up for someone I can't seem to remember mid 80s, and was blown away by their playing and the music was great, went out and bought all their cassettes! I still listen to them today but on CDs ! Great band in my opinion

[@diamondd2778]

I love Jeff. Absolute legend n the most honest interview you can get . Absolute respect ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤

[@christopheryanik9430]

Is there a podcast version of Full in Bloom somewhere other than KZbin? I see there's one on Spotify, but the most recent episode is 2022. Love the show btw!

[@scottpeters8640]

I was always a huge Dokken fan and always liked the work Pilson did with the band. This is the first time I have heard him speak and he sure is a bright and articulate speaker. I would love to hear him tell stories of his career.

[@fullinbloom]

There's a couple of more clips on the channel with Jeff.

[@whamsie4022]

Producers should let their work speak for itself and keep their mouths shut… but Werman does have a book to sell.

[@elevenAD]

this channel is so effin good!

[@philliphendon4991]

Pilson sounds like a solid dude. I like even more after hearing this interview.

[@shorerocks]

Ah, like children. Rock 'n' Roll Children. And what an album.

[@mattpatterson9128]

I Like Don Dokken, I like his side of the Story of the Working Relationship with all those guys. I also like Pilson's accounts of how things happened in the band's working relationship, However, Don told an Level headed account of working with those guys. He gave them all an equal share of the Albums, if they couldn't save money for their older ages, it's not Don's fault, he's not their daddy.

[@rjc7289]

Geoff Workman was a great engineer. I loved that dark and sinister sound he got on Motley Crue's SATD album and that ratty, clunky drum sound he got on Twisted Sister's Stay Hungry album.

[@jerryhatrick5860]

Jeff is a.classy dude.. Mick is a.very nice.Person solid drumer.. George.is why I picked up a guitar. But has a strange energy about him. Don has a fat head.. I've seen a few shows, worked one and met them all.. One time or another.. But Imo Jeff has a great ear and damn he can sing also.. Dokken put out some great stuff but I thi k tooth and nail production was better than shout at the devil. George is just an emotional.personnad firm in his beliefs.. His final tour came to my town and let me.tell you. The opening hand was hard to follow for.George.. It made his game have to rise up and he did it.. What a killer show.. But I still am unsure if he played as well as the guitarist for the opening act.. Still happy I got to witness it.

[@carlr8061]

Still my favorite album of theirs & we all went to see that tour but got to the show late for some reason & missed them .I've always been pissed about that. Can't remember who they opened for that night but I think it was Dio because I saw the Last in Line tour in 84 but I saw everybody that year but that's who I'm leaning towards.

[@MasterSumai]

Don & George hate one another.

[@beefheart67]

Tooth & Nail is a classic

[@sbrave]

If they only had clean DI guitar tracks, they could re-amp them, and do a remix. That's the only thing I wish was better on that album.

[@lancemanyon3139]

Now I have to slap on the Tooth & Nail album! Okay!

[@RS-ol8or]

Always thought Back for the Attack had not only the best sound overall, but Lynch's best guitar sound, plus the songs were killer. T & N would be next for me, with L & K third. L&K always sounded overproduced; I know they had hits with the album, but it paled to BftA & T&N. Also interesting that Lynch wasn't the devil that Weman & Don made him out to be. Imagine that! In fact, Weman's recollections sound almost as conflated as Don's do; yeah, he was credited with amazing albums, but in interviews he didn't come across as trustworthy.

[@clamdigr]

Yep, BFTA FTW, great album all around. I love when the guitar comes on "Lost Behind the Wall".

[@TheEndOfYou2]

I actually love Tooth and Nail because of the heaviness. Same with Breaking the Chains. Under Lock and Key was too commercial and for lack of a better of a term.. cute.

[@Packer1290]

I think the mix is lacking bottom end. A lot of that 80's stuff is like that.

[@DrTomoculus]

It's funny. Steve Porcaro of Toto swears by Geoff Workman. But I have just never liked any of the work he did on albums. Tom Werman had a great engineer in Gary Ladinsky, which is why I say the work George Martin & Geoff Emerick did on Cheap Trick's All Shook Up makes that album sound dull and listless compared to everything that came before it. Jack Douglas OR Tom Werman. And they lost their bassist, and they lost all the momentum Budokan / Police had given them. But Geoff Workman. Work he does clips and distorts. I hear sibilance on the albums he engineered. They're just not well recorded OR the final mix is effected by what he does after the button is pushed. They sound boxy and overdriven. It's not Werman making Tooth and Nail "funny", it's Geoff Workman.

[@nas4ra2]

I thought Tooth and Nail was one of there best albums even with the production style which IMO added to that album

[@guillermo3564]

I'm amazed that there was any hair metal at all when you look at how many immature babies were in those bands.

[@joecrowaz]

It's all Mr. Scary's fault 😂

[@dosgos]

I thought most of the songs sounded great. I wonder if there was opportunity to remix (albeit everyone is deaf now and they would compress the daylights out of the songs).

[@dalepiwek]

Killer brother

[@shannonmehafeey3538]

Tom Werman...a stand up guy...and he just gets dumped on by everybody...Dee Snider ..Tom actually made Twisted Sister palatable...that's the worst rock band in the world..but I can actually sit through Stay Hungry...

[@Geraldo-ro9rc]

Whats the point of him doing an interview if he doesnt want to go into details? Seems like he doesnt even want to do an interview.

[@kevinkaatz883]

Jeffrey, what did u do? Go apologize

[@katjay3125]

Dokken was never a top level band..just a studio creation

[@Buy_YouTube_Views_Gain_Fame180]

what camera are you using?

[@akpistol141]

Under Lock & Key, a masterpiece

[@stephensanchez9590]

Yes it is love that album

[@thomasbrogan9102]

"Don't Close Your Eyes"

[@jamescon55]

@@thomasbrogan9102 "Don't Close Your Eyes" is actually from the 2nd release TOOTH AND NAIL....Soooo,,,, IDK WHY you mention THAT track (outta nowhere) in relation to a UNDER LOCK AND KEY topic/conversation , BUT.....???...I guess? ...GLAD that you like THAT track ,,🤔,, "MAYBE? I guess, heck IDK" 🥴. LOL....🤘🔥🤘

[@thomasbrogan9102]

@@jamescon55 Hmm. Idk. Ide hafta listen to the clip again to maybe recall why I said that ... maybe tomorrow. 😴 💤 🛏

[@jbellflower83]

Yes. Outstanding f'ing album. the hunter, jaded Heart, lightning strikes again and The last song which I'm blanking on rn for some reason we're all outstanding. Edit: till the living end, that was what I was thinking. Great song.

[@David-vu7zy]

Pilson is so thoughtful and objective. Taking both credit and blame. Refreshing

[@MrOctober44]

As usual with Dokken, if you want the truth, go to Jeff.

[@mhitson7483]

Love these deep dives into the creation of the seminal records of eigties hard rock. Full in bloom asks the best questions and steers the discussion perfectly

[@MrOctober44]

Well said

[@lundad]

He is a master. The Howard Stern of music interviews

[@user-cruton]

I met Jeff Pilson at a restaurant one night. He was super cool. I had a ton of questions about Dio Strange Highways record that he played on. He answered them all and talked great about everyone he played with.

[@SKRooU2]

I bet you didn't ask why Dio's following album "Angry Machines" sucked did you? Strange Highways was awesome but Angry Machines was horrible. Same players. I never understood what happened.

[@user-cruton]

@SKRooU2 i actually did!! I didn't put it quite that way, but I did tell him I was disappointed with the sound on Angry Machines production wide. He just said it was the same band, same philosophy, same songwriting style, and he just shrugged his shoulders and said it happens sometimes. I do love the song Don't Tell The Kids on that album though

[@Batlizard74]

I bet Jeff really loved being asked tons of questions while out having dinner. What a guy!

[@user-cruton]

@Batlizard74 Wrong!! This was an after party at the place when it was closed by invite only.

[@MrDazzleLove]

Totally forgot about that! Met the whole band in Dayton OH. DIO signed autographs and talked to everybody that was outside after the show. Jeff was the first one out talking to fans and I remember his bass cab still had the Dokken logo on it. Got a pick from Tracy G. but he looked like he didn't want to lol he was the least impressive of all the guitar players to go through that band. Most likely had to take him for Vinnie to come back from WWIII

[@rick3747]

In 1984, I was 18 and was introduced to "Tooth and Nail" from two of my best buds (Marcos and "Pils") I am still a big Dokken/Lynch fan. RIP Marcos

[@wayne6777]

Sorry about your friend. Rock on, bud.

[@rick3747]

@@wayne6777 Thanks ,Wayne.

[@michaelmichaels138]

I never bought a Dokken album but I love these stories and Pilson is great at relating them.

[@Living_EDventures]

I never got into them till Back for the Attack. Wish I would of seen them in concert.

[@elevenAD]

@@Living_EDventuresPhilly show they were in there prime!

[@SKRooU2]

what sh*tty albums were you buying then? LOL

[@michaelmichaels138]

@@SKRooU2 - *Culture Club*

[@SKRooU2]

@@michaelmichaels138 LMAO

[@scottwhite2757]

Excellent interview.. The music business surely is interesting..

[@DirtyBlues8]

Love these interviews. Thanks for sharing : )

[@paulthompson8642]

Thanks again

[@garythomas4431]

I always enjoy Jeff's interviews. He seems to give a good perspective without stepping on people, and admits to his own good and bad personal experiences.

[@MrJimi777]

Tooth and Nail is in my top 5 favs Just a Great Album.. Turn On the Action Rocks.

[@eddiepigg5333]

“Tooth and Nail” is such a classic hard rock/ heavy metal album. It’s too bad that they went so commercial and lost that edge. I couldn’t play in a band with people that I didn’t like or couldn’t work with.

[@finediningandbreathing07]

Tooth and Nail was just as "commercial" as Under Lock and Key. What're you talking about? Not only that, but their heaviest album, Back for the Attack, came right after Under Lock and Key.

[@mifunegoh4773]

Great, great interview, as always. Thank you!

[@redpillredpill3216]

Jeff is the professional player everyone wants to work with. The dudes in Foreigner now...that speaks to his work ethic.

[@randymoran67]

Foreigner a cover band now

[@Kouros-t6d]

Best Dokken album is Breaking the chains ...wonderful guitar tone and great vocal by Don....melodies and harmonies to die for.

[@supersithlord]

I disagree about distortion. The guitar on T&N souded PERFECT. It sounded lousy on Under Lock & Key.

[@jamescon55]

Definitely HAD MORE ballz than Lock n Key...As good as "Lock" could've possibly BEEN that is......

[@elevenAD]

@@jamescon55 dang now i have to go compare the 2!

[@elevenAD]

OK Of the 2 i dig the Tooth and Nail tone more but both rock imho!

[@jamescon55]

@@elevenAD I do like, "SOME of the stuff" on Under Lock but...? For me, personally, it's just a bit TOO sappy for my taste/opinion.... I heard "Tooth" not long after release, and it just didn't do anything for me, THEN...Fast forward to Back for the Attack release and I REALLY liked it, WENT BACK to Tooth n Nail, and LOVED it...Seen "The Hunter" video after that, and so? I guess, MY "expectations" for Under Lock were fairly high and so, when I acquired it 2nd to last,...? I WAS, pretty "let down"... But? NOTHING like, WHEN I bought "Breaking the Chains"! As? I LOVE THAT track, and I HAD heard Paris is Burning on late night METAL radio show but AFTER hearing the whole LP, and to THIS day? I think it IS, one of the genre's WORST and ALL out cheesy LPs of it's time 😒... But yeah man! HUGE Lynch fan (and I am a METAL drummer NOT a guitarist in ANY way/COULDN'T play the instrument to SAVE MY LIFE!) so...Yeah...LOVE the 2 Dokken LPs, with some tracks off Under Lock and a couple tracks off the 1st one 😎🤘🔥🤘

[@elevenAD]

@@jamescon55 ❤

[@SKRooU2]

I think in other words all (or most of) of Dokken's problems can be linked back to alcohol/ drug use like most other bands that have had similar problems. If there is animosity or any bad vibes between members, (also producers etc.) the drugs and alcohol usage can bring it to the surface and cause it to escalate. The same thing happens to people in various relationships besides being in a band setting. I know from personal experience as well. Whereas 2 people can sometimes tolerate each other when sober, but when the alcohol and drugs start, "things" start happening, aka words and fists start flying and such "things" get out of control.. LOL ps. but I also have to say some bands that have had some of the worst problems somehow create some of the BEST DAMN music !! Some people call it "create differences", I call it "creative chaos"

[@GmanDGuitarTG]

I always loved George Lynch guitar tone on this album

[@UnderWorldOfDarkness]

The distortion on George’s guitar work is fine on Tooth and Nail. ... Perhaps these guys should stop giving interviews. The more they talk, the more cheesy they come across as being.

[@greggheslin2724]

Spot on.. it makes me realize everything I loved about the musicianship and music is a Lie after all these years. Like give a break. We loved this stuff and now they ruin it for me.

[@NOTCHMusic6724]

Shout at the Devil sounds nothing like Tooth and Nail

[@patrickmoreau7592]

Wow. This a great interview

[@scottlemond6570]

Tooth and nail was the best!

[@lanceraustin]

Love the FIB interviewing style. Asking that one last, tough question. It's always the one the fans are wondering about. It's usually repelled by the artist for being on a touchy subject, but presented respectfully, and pivoted away from seamlessly. Love it

[@terrywade8361]

Jeff is great

[@playAgainMe]

I'm just saying I Love the band Dokken. I never saw them live but saw Lynch Mob in 91 And they were Rickin.

[@kenbo1512]

Love Dokken as well and have seen them 16 times since 1986. Dokken and Ratt were bands you had to see in the 80s. So tight and powerful.

[@commonman317]

Wow. "Tooth And Nail" is 40 years old now. I remember buying the cassette new in high school.

[@td8778]

I never had a great stereo but I never fully heard the bass in Dokken until Beast. I wonder if he was happy with the bass guitar level back then.

[@gordocojones]

Yep. Not how I would have mixed those records.

[@chrislestermusic]

When I joined the band Wild Horses, Jeff was so kind to loan me one of his Spector basses and an Ampeg stack to help me out. He had played bass on the album and he certainly didn’t need to do that for me. It was such a kind gesture that I will never forget.

[@stevetheplumberbreeding7402]

Thanks for the great interview with Jeff! I think he's a great guy and bass player 👍 I saw them here in St Louis opening up for someone I can't seem to remember mid 80s, and was blown away by their playing and the music was great, went out and bought all their cassettes! I still listen to them today but on CDs ! Great band in my opinion

[@SavDog262]

Don needs to sell the Dokken name and catalog to Jeff and George and they can get a good singer to carry on the great music. Instead of the carcass thats currently touring.

[@1970borntorun]

I agree. I saw Dokken 3 years ago with Jon Levin, and the guy is good at being an "80s hot licks" player, but he overplayed all the solos and adds nothing to the Dokken legacy. If anything, Reb Beach was the best guitarist Dokken ever had - and I'm including George when I say that. Reb is like Randy Rhoads. Theory, Tone, Composition and feeling. George just kinda sprays notes and squeals all over the fretboard and hopes something sounds good.

[@SavDog262]

@@1970borntorun great point on the “hot licks” remark. He probably learned everything on the Lynch VHS lesson and went for it. I’d argue though that John Norum was probably the best guitar player, although technically not an official “Dokken” record but more of a solo record. Up From The Ashes is straight fire, and could be the best record Don ever did. Not to take away from Dons contributions to metal, because at one time he had a super smooth voice, strong, and great vibrato, similar to James Labrie. Very similar. But today the songs should be treated with dignity and presented in a way that doesn’t leave the audience questioning WTF was that shit, after a show. Sell the catalog and name, find a new singer and present the songs with dignity.

[@kingtrance307]

@@SavDog262- Or just quit (STOP TOURING) 🛑 altogether and call it a day. It’s even sadder when great bands don’t know when to just stop and they only keep touring to milk revenue. That’s the best way to honor the legacy and then everyone is free to go out and just create something new. Lynch and Pilson have obviously been doing just that with the End Machine! 👍

[@SavDog262]

Thanks, I’ll have to check out the end machine.

[@kenbo1512]

I’ve seen Dokken 16 times since 1986, most recently in July 2024. Don sounded better than he has in the past few years but the guy is 71 and has endured a lot of health issues. As a foster parent I admire Don for thriving after growing up in foster care. The band sounds good and let’s give Don a break.

[@DreidMusicalX]

Jeff I have to say man. You are a kick ass Bassist hat really put in your all in every way. I enjoyed your live performances as well. You really brought life and energy.

[@machupikachu1085]

So it was Geoff and Jeff after all.....interesting.

[@robertgoodwinr6523]

Their best album hands down. Still my favorite and love the sound on that one. Very aggressive in a good way.

[@jackwilliamson1929]

Love the early Dokken and first two Lynch Mobb records. Dysfunctional was great also. If Don's political views weren't so crazy I'd probably still go see him.

[@jayrusnak]

The people who think T&N is so great puzzle me. Sure it had it's strong points but it had some real stinkers and the production just sounds like a trash can falling down the stairs covered with reverb. So trebly.

[@zebdoz333]

Sounds to me like he was just being honest

[@MrFRO4484]

Wow…the more interviews I hear, with Dokken members, the more I believe Don’s accounts of why and how the band’s problems started and fucked up their careers. That was a bullshit way to treat your fucking producer!

[@robshrock-shirakbari1862]

Young, dumb and immature. Hurts people's lives in retrospect. Dokken might have been bigger if they had listened to all of these legendary people. Gotta respect the direct honesty.

[@markbowman5515]

what he means in every answer is that "we'll let the primidonnas run the show" dokken was a shit show that didn't realize that thier egos killed their career...terrible live, absolutely could not sell it live

[@Renegade_222]

That's my favorite dokken album

[@ms.felonystrutter2472]

I LOVE JEFF....THE BEST!!!!

[@JPC-do8xi]

Tooth and nail was the best,the distortion was great in the mix🤘🤘🤘🤘

[@GSmith-zp8lg]

I bet the Rock Candy remaster of Tooth and Nail sounds better

[@SgtZak_]

Pils0n did his best work in Steel Dragon

[@Jsing6946]

I wanna hear the edited joke tape!!!!!!!

[@poppycock6572]

Don Dokken wears prescription underwear.

[@wesleysmith2045]

Pilson seems like an extremely nice person.

[@miaouew]

lol they made Tom sound gay I bet

[@calvinmay35]

I have yet to meet a single person that has anything negative to say about Jeff Pilson.

[@SKRooU2]

They said even when he farted in the studio it didn't stink. They said it smelled like red roses.SMFH

[@amerocker]

'Tooth and Nail' is my favorite Dokken record and the first one I bought. 'Under Lock and Key' is way over produced.

[@mudcat422]

Four awesome musicians still alive and well can't get along. It's so silly isn't it? You could be doing albums and touring. We need Dokken 🤘🤘We need the Don, Jeff, George & Mick lineup

[@randymoran67]

Don can't sing you're trying to revive the dead

[@mckwilly]

Lynch and Pilson were a pair to recon with

[@tdub52]

Early Dokken was amazing. Loved everything through BFTA.

[@mariospensieri941]

Jeff is that Great guy... As a Musician I would Love to hang out and play With Him and See What We Could Acomplish....

[@mineofilms]

I still do not "love" the production value (sound/tone) of both Breakin' the Chains and Tooth & Nail. I always felt like Elektra's early 80s records had a "quality control" issue. Dokken been a band what? 5-7 years at this point and didn't have a decent "sounding" record till 1985? They are a better band than that, but I get it.

[@ellisonlowrimore7751]

As a huge Dokken fan since 81, I played T&N until I wore it out. Was lucky to meet the band on the Dysfunctional tour and you could feel the tension. To me all of the guys were super cool! Signed all of my albums! 🤘🏽🤘🏽🤘🏽🤘🏽

[@mrscary3721]

Jeff is so cool. Laid back. Funny to hear him talk about not being happy with the sound of Tooth and Nail's finished product. To me, sonically, it's great. Never even considered something to be unhappy about. But, apparently he would know what he expected and I didn't have another version to compare it to...

[@jeffs4760]

That's crazy because I think Back for the Attack was great even with the drug use. Hell maybe we wouldn't have gotten "Mr Scary"?

[@jimdickson7953]

It's cool hearing someone talk with total clarity no unnecessary cussing, his voice sounds a lot like Greg Macaroy

[@ThemFuzzyMonsters]

Great job! 👍🏻 The next Dokken story I’d like to hear about is the “Bagel” fight in 1997.

[@helio1055]

Tooth& Nail was my favorite production

[@5ivetk347]

George's guitar tone was great during Tooth and Nail.