Modified Thinset vs Unmodified Thinset Explained, How to Choose Best Mortar for Tiles

[@StarrTile]

Great explanation of different thinsets, anyone that actually watches the whole video will be well informed.....however, I take exception to your statement @3:45 when you say a failure of a tile job was caused by using the wrong thinset, there were prob mitigating circumstances but I would love to SEE evidence a tile fell off simply because a modified was used where an un-modified was called for...or vice versa...

[@jeffostroff]

Thanks! In relation to the schluter kurdi membrane, where you are supposed to have a modified thin set, if you use a modified then set it may never cure properly. By the way I enjoy your channel and am already a subscriber for many months now. I love the walk throughs that you do of the bad tile jobs From other contractors.

[@daveclark2458]

Good explanation of ansi Jeff 👍🏼 more people need to understand ansi.Best example I’ve seen is mix 1 cup non modified thin set and 1 cup modified thin set put both separately in a ziplock bag sealed tight leave overnight and guess which one is rock solid? That’s when you’ll understand why schluter specifically calls for unmodified thin set.

[@jeffostroff]

@@daveclark2458 That is a great test idea, thanks!

[@dkaloupis75]

You want evidences? I will give you my case...we were forced to strip EVERYTHING back to scratches because of that after massive failure after 3/5 years time from job. 6 years later everything is spot on and no concerns whatsoever.

[@raptureready9502]

@@dkaloupis75 how do we know ur bit lying?

[@Joseywales414]

You did very well & helped a lot of people, we Thank You highly much.

[@jeffostroff]

John, Awesome I'm so glad I was able to help everyone.

[@19oco94]

Great video and explanation! Much appreciated!

[@jeffostroff]

Awesome, thanks for watching Obi!

[@rezasharghi7882]

This was so far best video I have ever seen thanks for taking your time and putting this amazing video together

[@jeffostroff]

Thanks Reza, thanks for watching too

[@IanPritchard]

Best tile adhesive vid I've found. And boy have a looked! Unfortunately, here in the UK we can't get some of those adhesives. Ah well. Nice vid mate.

[@jeffostroff]

Thanks Ian!

[@adamnikodem90]

you contradict schluter info on bondign to plywood they recomment modified thin set for membranes,,,,,did you see any "fail of modified thin set " on ditra would love to see the fails. . . its about drying time of product ,it should not escape thru waterproofing but it will escape thru tiles,,no matter what u use ceramic,porceline ,natural stone,question is only time.every material absorb water ,,after 2 years without any "disaster "in structural damage to walls,it will be fine.i do agree on schluter membrane usign in showers and modified mortar ,where piece overlap another layer,,water can penetrate and break bond before fully cured/for tile it should not make big diffrence. . ...reasoning about usign sanded grout ,the only real truth its easier to work with and make the lines smoother....if you can provide specific diffrences between mapey modified and schluter modified that would help,unless" its paid " advertisement to standards.like always devil in details would be intresting to see one tile glued on midifeid and unmodified over ditra board ,,grout edgess and see the effect after one week,,i doubt there will be significant diffrence underneath about thsi uneven tile and thinset,,,,,it has more to do about "american way to lay tile ",nobody wants to pay extra cost to level up subfloors before instalation,where in europe its standard and part of the job,its like masonry on US soil,,,,crooked walls 1 1/2 off the level ,half inch bumbs on floor or 2 inch pitch inside small bathroom

[@jeffostroff]

Yes they do. I would never tile directly onto wood substrate, I would use DITRA, but I use AllSet for DITRA so it takes the guesswork out of which Thinset do I use.

[@faithrunner777]

Can a polymer modified thinset be used with tile under a woodstove, or would heat degrade the polymer? Likewise, would a Schluter Kerdi-board be a problem? Seems that a cement-based backer board would handle the heat better.

[@jeffostroff]

Hopefully there's not too much heat coming down but that I'll below it I think would be a insulator to the mortar. You would have to check on the package and see if there was any temperature requirements. I personally don't think there would be a problem with it

[@paulhaack4372]

Thanks for the in depth explanation of all the thin sets and their standards. This was a great help. I appreciate anyone who takes what they do seriously, gives quality information and not just looking to make a quick video.

[@jeffostroff]

Thanks Paul! It's funny how other visitors to this video below commented, complained that this was too long and boring, LOL! I had intended this to be a master class, covering the engineering science behind why we do what we do when we tile.

[@gefflynn7171]

What mortar would you recommend for wedi wall board. Installing glass and ceramic tile. Thanks

[@jeffostroff]

For glass they definitely recommend a polymer modified thin set. So far the last few years I've exclusively been using schluter allset Which finally they started to carry at floren décor so now I can just drive up the street to our local Florida décor store and buy the thin set mortar. And whatever you do make sure you only get white. But you also need to double check with wetty about what they prefer on their boards. I suspect they require a latex modified thin set like thinks that like the all set is but you always got a double check on every every item as to what is required.

[@christiancatheyshowers]

It doesn’t matter what that bag says it will not and never will stick to plywood take it from a pro😎 get some backer board

[@jeffostroff]

Yes I only use tile backer boards

[@MetaphorForests]

So which thinset can I use on kerdi board? I hear I can use mapei kerabond plus, are there any others?

[@jeffostroff]

With Kurdi board I would be very careful to only use what Schluter recommends. I have been using exclusively the last four years Schluter AllSet modified thinset because Schluter has told us they made it, they are in control of the process and they know that even though it is a modified thinset it will work on their products and it will be perfect so that is what I have been using.

[@baileymarie4531]

Can i use mapei polymer enriched thinset over mapei mapelastic aqua defense for a roman bath with ceramic tile?

[@jeffostroff]

Yes they usually mention to use latex modified thinset over aqua defense

[@KnowingGodExplorers]

Finally, a good video on explaining the difference between UNMODIFIED (uncoupling) and MODIFIED (coupling) THIN SETS. AWESOME JOB.. only 1 issue, the part where you show the bathroom tiles, that SAGGED.. (you said adding a second bead of caulk around the tub... I AWESOME YOU ALSO WOULD OF MENTIONED, YOU SHOULD REMOVE ALL THE TILES, OLD THIN SET ECT, AND USE THE CORRECT THINSET (BASICALLY STARTING ALL OVER, THUS DOING IT RIGHT) THANKS FOR THE VIDEO.

[@jeffostroff]

Thank you glad to hear you liked the video

[@eugeniustheodidactus8890]

*ROBERT HARTE* ---------------- > What exactly do you mean when you refer to them as "uncoupling" or "coupling" ?

[@rudysmachado5747]

Great, enlightening video.👍🏻I have a very small bath niche project, where I want to install porcelain tile. Can I get away with using unmodified thin set (bought a huge bag for Kerdi band)considering it’s only 14” by 12” space. Even tho it’s in the shower, it is relatively far away from constant water spray/exposure and no grout to be used, just caulk around edges. It’ll be adhered to wood, but i waterproof painted the wood first. Thx!

[@jeffostroff]

Yes you can for that small area far away from the water if you already have the mortar, should not be an issue, but I would not do any walls of the wet part of the shower with it. I always buy The Schluter All-Set anyway, so I am covered no matter what substrate I am on.

[@rudysmachado5747]

@@jeffostroff Should I wait a few days between placing pieces to let the mortar dry or is that not necessary?

[@jeffostroff]

@@rudysmachado5747 I would just place all the tiles in place and wait a few days before you grout.. If you can wait even a week or so that would be even better because it would give the mortar more time to cure.

[@garyjohnson7697]

I thought I was listening to Charlie Sheen!

[@woahitsveronica]

Winning!

[@keeganzpapa7290]

Please don't be discouraged by the negative comments. I needed your style of teaching. I needed the time you took to teach it. All the 5 minute talks and all the charts are useless if not comprehended by the student. I have been looking for a modified/unmodified explanation that I could understand and their use for a long time. Great job.

[@jeffostroff]

Thanks for the kind words!

[@pajtognetti7531]

I agree! People can be so darn rude! They can just NOT watch the video if they don't like the video content or click with the presentation style, but to actually take the time to make a negative and rude comment shows what an idiot that person is. It's very generous that someone took their time and made an instructional video for others to learn from! We should be gracious!

[@DavidKlausa]

I'm using Hydro Ban and porcelain LFT. Since a painted-on membrane is impervious just like Kerdi board, I'm assuming modified thinset would take forever to cure. On the other hand, adhesion would be greater. I'm leaning toward unmodified so I can grout without waiting a month, but I also hear that modified is better most of the time. Any ideas on settling this debate?

[@Mogman150]

I know this is an older video, but almost everyone is using modified thinsets (including Schluter all-set). All of them (including Schluter) have curing agents that allow curing without the presence of air.

[@jamespalmer2896]

I spoke with a Mapei tech, and he say's it's because Schluter only tested non modified on their Keri Board. However Mapei has tested all their modified thin modified cements on Kerdi and it certainly works does work. He went on to say Schluter just didn't come out with it first, and they just want everyone to buy their product... making you think you can't use their boards without their floors, and so on. It's all nonsense. So yes, yes you can use any modified thin set on Kerdi. You will void Schluter's warranty maybe. but you won't void Mapei's.

[@billb2809]

Just finished a shower wall tile project with Kurdi. I didn't research the modified vs non-modified thinset application instructions. The walls are porcelain tiled with modified thinset but not grouted . Will the thinset cure if I wait a month before grouting??? What do I do???

[@davida3343]

I literally been over internet for a month now just trying to get an answer about what is the deference between white thinset and grey thinset ..imagine the deference is only the colour 😤

[@jeffostroff]

I always try to use white

[@qaysar82]

Hello .. I live in Germany where ANSI is not used. Is there an equivalent in the DIN - EN Standard for this ANSI 118.1 ?

[@IdemRedd]

Why are mapei modified thinsets ok over hydroban and mapei waterproof liquid membrane bit not schluter?

[@MegaMeco2]

You sound like Johnny Dep lol😂

[@jeffostroff]

I usually hear Charlie Sheen from people

[@irvingg.1437]

What if your using cement board that you paint redguard on the surface to waterproof? Do you use modified or unmodified?

[@jeffostroff]

Irving, You can use a polymer modified thinset with Redgard and also with blue MAPEI Aqua Defense

[@victorquiroz3048]

How long will the dry time be for polymer modified thinset on redgard for 2x2x12 and 12x24?

[@jeffostroff]

@@victorquiroz3048 I doubt very much that there is any difference and drying time between the 2 tile sizes unless the bag has instructions that specifies otherwise I usually just let it dry overnight. Keep in mind that thin set continues to cure and gain in strength over the next month.

[@michaelhorn9114]

@@victorquiroz3048 redguard requires that you use modified thinset for the tile. Modified thinset is fortified with latex which is organic and is a food source for mold growth. In a shower, you should only use unmodified thinset.

[@richardhotchkiss2928]

Where do I pick up these books

[@jeffostroff]

www.tcnatile.com/products-and-services/publications/218-english-publications/188-handbook.html

[@BetterToDIY]

Great thorough explanation. If you care about what your doing, its better to know more rather than less.

[@jeffostroff]

You took the words right out of my mouth! Thanks for watching!

[@MrMusic55123]

I tried soaking polymer modified thinset in vinegar and the thinset was all gone, it melted. The non enriched one was not affected when soaking in vinegar

[@ali_the-king6359]

Hi Jeff, I hope your doing well. I wanted to say thank you soooo much for the time you put in to help us through this detailed video. It was very helpful really appreciate it. Thanks

[@jeffostroff]

You are so welcome

[@ra2fa]

you wrong you just sent a wrong info on ditra at 11:50 if used on plywood you need modified thin set then over it unmodified thin set or a modified Schluter all set can be used

[@madcowusa4277]

Very, very helpful. Uninformed Lowes clerk was pointing me to the wrong stuff so I decided to go home and do further research. Doing a kerdi board shower and can't find unmodified except for the really cheap ($7) junk you mentioned. It's bizarre the big box stores sell kerdi board and fabric but not Schluter All Set or even Kerdi Fix. It doesn't help the bags use marketing language like "fortified" too.

[@jeffostroff]

Yes sometimes it is a real challenge to find the AllSet and there's a place in our area that I have to drive all the way across town to go get it

[@nickie9561]

I have never heard anyone tell all the differences in the thinset mortar like you have and make it understood like you have. I am so happy to heard all that you have said about the thinset and how and which one to use, you need to be a teacher on new guys just learning the trade, for us women to not be worried about them not knowing which ones to use when we have to hire this done for us older single women who can't do tiling.

[@jeffostroff]

Awesome Mary, I'm glad to hear you're tackling this. Now you can school the other guys!

[@joedebosco3047]

Great explanation!

[@jeffostroff]

Glad it was helpful!

[@devkin63]

Can I use unmodified, thin, set to do my taping and corners over hardy backer?

[@alexleggett6270]

great video! I have been wanting a video that breaks it down this well!

[@ericrmccormick]

You do use modified thinset to put ditra over plywood but you apply the tile to the ditra with a non modified thinset

[@fernandomeier4386]

Thank you ! Great!

[@jeffostroff]

You are very welcome Fernando glad to help out

[@robroby10]

Thank you sir. rob

[@jeffostroff]

Thanks, I'm glad you liked it!

[@daversj]

When going over plywood i usually use a bonding agent first. Then thin set the ditra or kerdi down. Super easy and ensures a good adhesion.

[@Sunnyside--Up]

Beautifully explained! I research my projects inside and out as well. I take my time so it is done properly. You brought another level to my process: the ANSI standards. I used to ask a sales person, sometimes that works out but sometimes it doesn't and one ends up with the wrong product. Thank you, this by far is the best of the best explained and pointed to the right direction.

[@jeffostroff]

Glad it was helpful!

[@HPOSO2]

I couldn’t find non modified for larger over 15 inches tiles.

[@fatharold1788]

very good video, you seem like a cool guy

[@jeffostroff]

Fat Harold Thanks, I'm glad you liked the video.

[@maciejmj8280]

Hello Jeff, my undsrstanding based on your video is that I have to use unmodified thinset on 1/2 inch self leveling concrete that was poured on plywood subfloor? Am I correct on this? I cannot use polymer modifed thinset? This is for entire bathroom porcelain floor installation.

[@jeffostroff]

You would only need non-modified if you were using a Schluter Ditra or Kerdi product underneath the tile. But with just concrete over already poured leveler, you would use modified thinset if tile is going directly on the thinset mortar.

[@fasteddie9475]

loved the video, never understood differences between modified an un modified thin set, you are a tremendous instructor, thanks much!

[@jeffostroff]

Glad you liked it Edward

[@Ifugiveubegin2live]

So use unmodified when tiling onto sealed concrete? Thanks

[@edsedlak6827]

Not a single person I have ever seen added the powder to the water. Pros or DIY.

[@BigiantB]

Very very good commentary on thinset. Thanks for the info.

[@jeffostroff]

Brian Bry Thanks I am glad you found it useful!

[@bobbys2160]

Great video but let pose another question to you. If I roller redgard or aquaban or ardex onto my hardibacker board and make it imperious to water then install porcelain or ceramic tile using modified thinset which is recommended haven't i just done the same thing that Shuluter says not to because of drying issues?? If I read it right modified thinset is the way to go because of its bonding strength however i just now sandwiched it in between two imperious surfaces reducing its drying ability

[@jeffostroff]

Schluter's product is different than these waterproofing membranes, which are formulated to work with latex modified mortars. Schluter prefers non-modified thin sets, or the use of their own modified thinnest called Allset, which is what I use

[@kimwhite312]

Wow! Excellent video. Thanks for taking the time to explain the “why’s” and what could happen if you do X vs Y. I thought I was ready to go until you explained the pictures on the back of the bag regarding application areas. Thankyou!

[@jeffostroff]

that's why you almost have to be an engineer to tile!

[@moscato1ca]

Will modified on Kerdi eventually cure with enough time exposed, before putting tile on. I have condensation appearing on the back of tile as I dry fit 1st row on tub flange?

[@jeffostroff]

The one benefit of unmodified thinset is that it is a hydration curing mortar, whereas modified thinset is an evaporation type of curing, so needs things to dry out over 30 days or so. But unmodified thinset thrive and cures better, and it's crystals form better in the presence of moisture. As you know, mortars cure with time each day, so when you get it all tiled, you can let it all rest a day or 2 also no harm in that.

[@algreen1979]

Honestly kerdi is very overrated and expensive and just plainly is rediculous to use. ... I'd rather use densesheild and quality thinset

[@jeffostroff]

I use dense shield also, makes my arms a bit itchy, but it's lighter than cement board.

[@ITHINKIMME167]

So from my understanding modified thin set motor is for plywood floor as its a shaky surface , as you might need to put primer before you put thin set motar then ditromatt goes over. In the other hand unmodified thin motar is for concrete floor so you can put insulation board for underfloor heating , plz correct me if I'm wrong thanks. This my first time understanding the two types of thin set modified and un modified.

[@jeffostroff]

I would recommend you use Schluter AllSet Mortar, that is what I use, it can be used in any scenario requiring modified or unmodified thinset. Also Schluter's web site has videos showing you how it i sdone at the bottom of their page: www.schluter.com/schluter-us/en_US/Membranes/Uncoupling-%28DITRA%29/Schluter%C2%AE-DITRA-%26-DITRA-XL/p/DITRA?facets=false

[@jessicabailey2478]

well, I got bored after 5:00 minute ...

[@jeffostroff]

Sometimes these technical briefings can be boring to some people, but they contain the necessary information that other crave

[@dbmxerinca]

"Schluter has control over the entire process" i.e... they make more money. Its like when you buy a Ford and the Ford manual says, Use only genuine Ford Oil.

[@jeffostroff]

Schluter for years had been telling people to use non-modified mortar, so it's not like they were forcing some control over what you buy. But I am glad they have the All set, that is all I use now, even on non-schluter tiling jobs

[@michaeljfanoun7237]

Great advice. I have a little problem. I laid tile on a patio now my wife doesn’t care for way it looks. Can I lay tile over tile? Thank you

[@jeffostroff]

People tile over tile all the time you may want to roughen it up first with a grinder but it might not really be necessary. The only issue is how is it going to look along the edges? Maybe you can cover up the edges with tile as well cut slivers of tile to cover that up

[@mattc5185]

Can this be use to adhere KBRS ShowerSlope & Curb to the sub-floor or what can you recommend?

[@jeffostroff]

Yes, I use the AllSet mortar almost exclusively now, and t can be used on most anything

[@phildimitri7213]

Thanks for a great video. Would modified thinset mortar technicality not be good for tiling any tile over a waterproof wall such as Kerdi, Red guard, etc since the mortar would be trapped between 2 impervious surfaces?

[@jeffostroff]

Phil, it's confusing about whhich manufacturer wants what. Kerdi wants you to use unmodified thinset to tile onto their products. But redgaurd says use modified thinset. I don't know why, I'm simply not a chemical engineer, but it boggles the mind. I just go with what they say. My favorite one to use is Schluter's Allset because it can be used on anything, and as I showed, it supports all the specs of a modified and unmodified thinset.

[@mjdeles]

I installed 1/2" cement board around tub, then after some research purchased the Kerdi Membrane to go over the cement board. Is this recommended or completely wrong? I can not find any information on this and want to avoid any failures, unmodified thinset is what I was planning on purchasing.

[@jeffostroff]

Yes, that is fine, I attached Kerdi to Haribacker board, but you can also attach it to cement board, using the unmodified thinset. Of cours enowadays I prefer th eKerdi boards, which are the wall board,s but very light and you don't have to mess with applying the kerdi membrane, as it's already intigrated into the Kerdi Board.

[@rsauder]

@@jeffostroff I've done Kerdi over cement board - perfectly fine. I did this to avoid the costs of using the Kerdi boards...after doing a few showers I've discovered that using the Kerdi boards (orange foam) is actually basically the SAME price when all is said and done...plus working with the foam is MUCH easier and faster and WAY WAY less mess (from the concrete boards)...so don't cheap out - use the Kerdi boards as they don't save you $ in material cost and actually might make the job faster - certainly less mess b/c you don't have to deal with all the crumbling and dust of the concrete boards. Good info.

[@johnal4560]

i want to install 12x 24 porcelain tile on shower area around the tub wall and i got some Schluter all set thin set and i installed some hardbacker board would i be able to use that without using any other Schluter product or any other thin set u recommend thx

[@jeffostroff]

Yes, but if you are not using any Schluter water resistant membrane over the hardibacker board, then by code you must use some sort of waterproof coating like AquaDefense, and tape the corners and apply 2 coats of aqua defense

[@xJamesxKingx]

I was told I needed a latex modified thinset for my stone backsplash. Is that accurate? Can that ultraflex be used alone instead of adding a latex liquid? Does the wall need to be sanded first or can it go on paint? Thanks for making this video

[@jeffostroff]

When I use the MAPEI type Ultraflex it already has the latex in it. I never mess with mixing the liquid latex into the mortar

[@mickeyd8747]

Awesome video, subscribed! Thank you for this effort, very well done.

[@jeffostroff]

Thanks, I'm glad you liked it Mickey, welcome aboard!

[@ironfreak7270]

Can you use thinset as grout. I have thinset coming through my pebble tile,. It's dried and solid as a rock.. oops. If I seal it will it be ok? I have pvc liner water proofing and a mortar bed with aqua defense below tile. The color thinset is similar to grout. It's a mapei thinset

[@jeffostroff]

Usually the grouts have sealers in them they help prevent staining and absorption, which thinset does nothave. Why not chisel the thinset out of there and grout it?

[@edsmith4414]

MOST of the thinsets sold at big box stores are junk. Mapei makes cheap stuff to get on the shelf at Lowes/Home Depot. Schluter Allset is good stuff, you get what you pay for. Go to a place that sells tile to pro's and you find far better cements.

[@jeffostroff]

Yup we just got another bag of Schluter Allset the other day for my nephew

[@kittyyy127]

Why would redgard and aquadefense recommend a modified thinset if those are membranes like Kerdi?

[@jeffostroff]

That is what they require for their product. Don't now why

[@MrMusic55123]

Is thinset the same as Portland white cement. I'm looking if thinset can be mixed with sand to make pool plaster

[@jeffostroff]

Why not just buy the pool plaster?

[@simonchu369]

Thank you very much for sharing the very valuable technique.

[@jeffostroff]

You're very welcome!

[@steveleonard7056]

Awesome video! I DO appreciate the in-depth information... I'm slowly working through a bathroom remodel myself - and I was thinking of using 12"x24" marble tile on the walls of my shower. From even this thorough explanation, I'm still a bit unsure of what to use - other than the Schluter Allset product, is there something else commercially available to fit this application? Large format tile, impervious backplane, natural stone... What do you think??

[@jeffostroff]

Steve I have been exclusively using the Schluter All set the last 4 years, it has been so great to work with.

[@steveleonard7056]

@@jeffostroff great to hear! I’ll give that a shot… after watching some more KZbin video’s I’m thinking. Thanks!

[@billydirks3638]

i have my tub shower area ready to tile . walls are 1/2 durock sealed joints and coated with redguard. what would be the correct thinset for my 4x16 white ceramic tiles ? thanks in advance for your reply

[@Ada-sm2su]

Awesome video, thank you so much!

[@pajtognetti7531]

Jeff this was a really great explanation regarding thin-set mortar, and how to read and understand the labels-even if someone is NOT a professional contractor! Thank you!!! I was very interested in your video as well since I was trying to understand the differences between Mapei products (adhesives and grouts) for my mosaic projects. Since I live in Italy and am having a hard time understanding which Italian products (thin set, Mastic, Mirror Silicone adhesives, etc.) I can buy and use for my mosaic projects that are equivalent to ours in the U.S.A. You can't imagine how difficult it is to translate everything and try to find the same- just to do a project! They do not have a market for 'projects', nor are they big on DIY home improvements, so their 'home improvement stores' are extremely limited in what they carry and product diversity! So, unless you're a professional, know what you're doing, and have access to needed products, it can be a huge hardship. I recently found Mapei products (which is a famous Italian company), but I'm having a hard time understanding the differences between all their products (their package explanation is very vague and repetitive), and which one is best for me to use for my mosaic projects. I loved your explanations on the 3 Mapei products!! Could you please tell me, if you know, the differences between Mapei UltraMastic III or 5, and Mapei Adesilex P22, and for what exactly they are best used for? Those were the products some Italian artists were using here for their mosaic projects; they were using ceramic tiles, stained glass tiles, and smalti on wood, cement, and other base substrates. I would like to better understand in which situation and for what material these Mapei products could be (properly) used. Are any of the Mapei products the equivalent to our U.S.A. thin-set mortar? Also, on the Mapei Keracolor S, sanded grout, you explained that it was modified with polymer. Could you please explain what the added polymer is good for, and in what situation I would want that in my grout? Does Mapei have other grout products that are not sanded or are sanded but without the added polymer- and in what situation are those better to use? Thank you for all your professional advice! I look forward to watching more of your videos. I think you could write a well-advised and easily understood book on creating mosaics; small tile projects that would be a best seller!

[@jeffostroff]

i don't know anything about Mapei UltraMastic III or 5, and Mapei Adesilex P22, but if you email MAPEI, they do answer you. I steer clear of mastics, only thinset mortar should ever be used for tiles ever. Mastics often don't cure, and fall apart in humidity. Grout modifiers are for thigs like crack prevention, and sealing the grout to minimize water absorption. They probably have unsanded and unmodified grouts, but yo will have to seal the grout afterwards, and every 5 years.

[@sunray1970]

Too info bro, str8t to point buddy😮. Information overload...

[@jeffostroff]

It's a master classs, not too much info

[@DiMokokilala71]

Thank you very much for this video!

[@jeffostroff]

Glad it was helpful Silvester!

[@reverling1]

Thank you for this very well explained instruction.

[@jeffostroff]

Glad it was helpful!

[@macaronitire4152]

You say that you cannot use a modified thinset for Ditra, which is incorrect. Shluter installation guidelines specifically say that a modified thinset needs to be used when adhering Ditra to substrate.

[@jeffostroff]

Yes I should have clarified, you cannot use modified on top of DITRA to tile. For adhering DITRA to wood you have no choice, you have to use modified thinset. But I always use All-Set now anyway, so it takes the guesswork out of the equation, and I sleep better at night because Schluter engineered All-Set to work with all their waterproofing and crack isolation membranes.

[@amazoloco]

I use alino système. The membrane seems exactly the same as shlutter. If you check their video Installation they tell you to use modify thin set for membrane and tiles. So im confuse. Im gonna try to call them see what they have to say about that

[@jeffostroff]

It's all about the makeup of their membrane and what each company requires.

[@rossm9438]

Can you explain the logic why Schluter is the only water proofing system that modified thin-sets are not recommended? What makes it work with all the other manufacturers but not them?

[@jeffostroff]

It has to do with the curing so a non-modified thinset will cure and actually strengthen in the presence of moisture. Butt modified thin sets are an evaporative curing which means all moisture must evaporate out of that mortar in order for the mortar to gain its strength and hold the tile walls in the membrane and everything else. So I believe they are likely concerned with any of the mortars that come in contact with their Schluter Kerdi Membrane that mortar will not hold the material well at all unless they are an Un-modified thinset. However, I now use their Schluter AllSet mortar which is believe it or not is a modified thinset mortar but it is their modified mortar that they make under their control so you can use it no matter what.

[@rossm9438]

​@@jeffostroff Thank you for your response. My question is more why is Schluter the only one concerned by this? If modified thinsets cause a problem because the thinset can't dry out, wouldn't that be a problem for literally every other water proof membrane on the planet?

[@knutbaardsen6437]

When i saw the "phonebook tile Bible"in your lap i knew we were in for a lecture.

[@jeffostroff]

Yes, a lot of reading for those who want to learn the proper stackup that the experts in the industry say should be done

[@charronfamilyconnect]

Hi there, I did half a room of 12 inch ceramic tiles with flexbond mortar but ran out. Can i use a different brand like Mapei gray standard floor tile mortar to finish the other half of the room? Thanks!

[@jeffostroff]

Yes no problem as long as the mortar is correct called out by the tile backer board manufacturer. If they say it should be modified thin set mortar then get modified.

[@keithowens9242]

What type of thinset on Cement Board joints? Perma Base.......Durock?

[@jeffostroff]

They usually specify modified thinset

[@keithowens9242]

@@jeffostroff Thank You!!

[@brandtrosenstock]

First of all it is way better than jamo

[@tomdemeo2708]

Why does Schluter say use unmodified to stick to plastic when unmodified doesn’t adhere to plastic?

[@jeffostroff]

I am not a chemist but certainly schluter must know why their own products will not allow the modified then set to ever cure properly and give it the strength that it needs in order to adhere. But one thing is for sure I always use their all set mortar now which is a modified it then set, that they have engineered themselves and they controlled the chemistry of it, and so we can rest assured knowing that it will work with all of their products

[@tomdemeo2708]

@@jeffostroff Thanks I agree but it’s for sure confusing as modified thinset from powder ( not premixed) will dry without air even under water, so i could never understand Their comment of “won’t cure” I am guessing that most big boxes sell a premixed multi purpose thinset which doesn’t dry without air ( like paint) so they are protecting themselves from confusion. That’s my guess with over 55 years in the industry . As you know unmodified uses only mechanical bonding which needs porosity like cement to brick or block and soft body ceramic tile. Plastic wood or metal would not bond ( Schluter being plastic) Thanks Tom

[@stephensharma4994]

hey man ,,, thanks for the info ... cheers !!

[@MarioLopez-tt1ey]

The bag specifies the use for.. the real question is why leave an use bathtub when a new one is $200.

[@jeffostroff]

A crappy bathtub is $200. The good ones are closer to $500, plus pulling out the old tub, getting the new tub, and installing it and redoing everything, and attaching and installing the new tub is really 3 more days of labor. We paid a local contractor to come reglaze the tub for $200 and it is good as new, guaranteed for 5 years.

[@igorpolovinkin1660]

This great video, I didn’t know all that. Saved me from making a mistake to use a wrong thinset for shludar. Thank you

[@jeffostroff]

Glad to help Igor and thank you for watching

[@gabeal2892]

I use the orange bag Mapei for smaller joints, it has small particles that are like fine sand and it hardly ever sags. Better than the sanded imo, blasphemy I know. Thanks for the vid, I’m still confused tho lol.

[@jeffostroff]

Thanks for sharing!

[@joejoecolombo]

do you not cover your tubs when you work in them? smh as an owner i'd be pissed

[@jeffostroff]

The tub was going to be reglazed so I did not bother, but I did use a board when I was standing on it to tile, otherwise yes, at my friend's house we put a moving cloth inside, and film over the top of the tub.

[@fyescas777]

Long video but worth watching, even you are not setting tile yourself. Will help ensure that you select the right products or to ensure that your tile guy is using the right products.

[@jeffostroff]

Yes this was more of a masterclass

[@zayder1234]

I actually really appreciated this in-depth discussion and commentary. Thank you.

[@jeffostroff]

Glad you liked it, thanks for visiting our video.

[@steveocarpentry2545]

Good video chat thank you

[@jeffostroff]

Thanks, glad you liked it

[@Grettsum]

Haha, I always wondered what the hieroglyphics meant

[@jeffostroff]

Now we know!

[@jdbas71]

What thinset would be used on hardie backer covered in a waterproof membrane such as redgaurd? Would the membrane used with a modified thinset cause issues like with the kerdi?

[@jeffostroff]

The manufacturer of the RedGaurd specifies Modified Thin Set, but always check the bag to be sure. You can't go wrong using Schluter's All Set mortar, it can be used in areas requiring either modified or non-modified thinsets.

[@jdbas71]

Thanks Jeff

[@fixit9888]

Hi Jeff, can you please help me decide on the correct mortar for my tile? I am using a porcelain 12×24 tile on the floor and on the bathroom shower walls. What mortar do you recommend? What should be the minimum grout line? Thank you in advance

[@jeffostroff]

Porcelain tiles do just fine with a latex-modified thin set mortar. But you gotta make sure you know what is going on the walls before the mortar for example do you have cement rock board and then you're going to put awkward defense? So that's why you really can't make a blanket statement about what type of mortar you're going to use until you know what the final waterproofing layer is. I prefer an eighth of an inch grout line, I would not recommend a 16th inch grout line if you've never tiled before because you really need years of experience to be able to pull off getting those lines perfect as well as getting the wall completely in plain vertically

[@fixit9888]

@@jeffostroff yes, I am going to put cement boards then cover it with aquadefense . That's the plan.

[@mikehands61]

Modified thinset must be used with porcelain tiles.

[@jeffostroff]

Mike Abramow Yes and most thin set mortar manufacturers understand that people are confused about this so many of the bags are pretty good about saying on the front whether they can be used for ceramic, or porcelain or marble and stone. Some of the bags have a chart on them with check marks next to the different types of tile to let you know if it can be used with that type of tile.

[@blaketettleton1203]

So, the tile company I bought my tile from gave me Laricrete Tri Lite after I told them I was using Schluter on my shower. I can use the tri lite on the floor, but I need to find the non modified. if i can't find the all set, is it safe to get it from Amazon?

[@jmack619]

Great video, I want to put ecoprime and ditra heat over 2x2 inch existing tiles. They are well bonded for 35 years, and almost impossible to remove. what would you use for morter? Modified, or unmodified ?

[@jeffostroff]

I would research DITRA and see what Schluter tells you to do in this case. they may tell you top roughen up the surfaces of the tiles first

[@OakdaleTomahWI]

Thank Jeff this was an awesome video. I want to tile my backsplash in the kitchen. Its brand new painted wall consisting drywall with a new application of knockdown. The tile size is 3" x 9" and I am going after the standard subway pattern. My question is can I use glue/mastic (If yes what product would you suggest) or if glue is a hard no than what thin-set would you recommend for this application?

[@jeffostroff]

NO Never use Mastec EVER! I would use a Latex modified Thinset. Mastec never seems to cure and is more rubbery and tiles will fall off

[@jeffmcgurn5261]

What thin set should be used over Wedi board with a 4x16 ceramic tile?

[@jeffostroff]

Sorry don't know the answer I have not used wedi, so you will have to check with them, and depending if you use the board or add membrane, that could also change which type of thin set you need. Best to see if they have any videos, or guide on their web site like Schluter does.

[@sporeomega300]

Regarding large format porcelain tile for shower walls: if you’re using Durock with red guard is the schlutter all set still a better choice or ultraflex lft?

[@jeffostroff]

Over the last couple of years, I have grown to really appreciate the quality of the Schluter AllSet and one of the reasons for this as you can tell by looking at the ANSI standard it satisfies. So, in this case AllSet will handle ANSI standard A 118.15T, Large Format Tiles, due to the Non-Sag properties. NOTICE the “T” at the end, VERY IMPORTANT distinction! A118.15 by itself with no “T” means that it is an “improved thinset mortar”, so this makes it better than all the other normal A118.4 Modified Thinset mortars that are only rated ANSI A118.4 (Modified Thinset). Now in my opinion the MAPEI LFT is a great thinset mortar I have used it many times. But very puzzling their bag claims to be a LFT yet that is not backed up by the ANSI spec on the side of the bag which only says A118.4 which just means modified thinset mortar, with no real specification toward large format tiles, it is missing a “T” at the end of the ANSI A118.4. So, you can see the confusion there, MAPEI bag marketing name says one thing, but the spec says another. Both bags from either company are good but I think that because the Schluter AllSet supports the A 118.15T, a higher quality “improved modified thinset” that extra “T” at the end of the spec is what specifically tells us that this is engineered specifically for large format tiles. And it is only $3 more than the MAPEI product, so therefore I've just been using Schluter AllSet for the last three years for all my needs even with light tiles because I know that they will not sag as much. Remember also that the Schluter AllSet mortar satisfies these: A118.4, A118.4T, A118.11, A118.15, and A118.15T, but MAPEI Ultraflex LFT only satisfies A118.4, so AllSet is like a smart bomb covering all scenarios.

[@hickoryridgefarmer]

What to use for an outside kitchen island? Thin brick application over cement board. I’m trying some masonry mix by quickrete but it just seems too sandy

[@jeffostroff]

Look on the bags of tile mortar. On the back they have little diagrams that tell you if you can use it outside, on the floor, or on the wall.

[@hickoryridgefarmer]

jeffostroff picked up some large tile and stone from mapei. Stuff works great!

[@johnnym5564]

Thank you! You have demystified the mortar dilemma.

[@jeffostroff]

Glad it was helpful!

[@serenadarling4100]

Hi, great video. I am planning to use the DUROCK cement board cement backer board for my shower walls and I am going to roll it with AquaDefense membrane. Which mortar should I use? Thanks

[@jeffostroff]

Kendy, the instructions for MAPEI AquaDefense state that: "For tile and stone installations, use MAPEI polymer-modified or epoxy mortars. " They also state if your using large heavy tiles or large format tiles, you have to let the AquaDefense cure overnight before tiling.