DubCon vs. CNC Discussion & Recommendations

#TabooBookClub #TheBookRefuge #RomanceBooktuber
This is a tough discussion, but the books go right to my Id. I hope you will give some of them a try!
Join the Taboo Book Club in my Discord: / discord
Books Discussed:
Desperate Measures by Katee Robert
Sordid by Nikki Sloane
Asking For it by Lilah Pace
A Hunger Like No Other by Kresley Cole
Krinar Chronicles by Anna Zaires
Ice Planet Barbarians by Ruby Dixon
Bait by Jade West
Captive by RJ Lewis
Den of Vipers by KA Knight
Untouchable by Sam Mariano
My Amazon Wish List: www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls...
My Amazon Store Front: www.amazon.com/shop/thebookre...
The Book Refuge Discord: / discord
Romance Booktuber Discord: / discord
Linktree (Links to Goodreads, Insta, Twitter and More!): linktr.ee/TheBookRefuge
About Me
Hi! My name is Jenn! I started this channel in April of 2018 to meet bookish-minded people and be nerdy with them. I make new videos every week. I live in Fargo, ND and it is a wasteland. Booktube is how I connect and make new friends.
Thanks so much for watching!
XOXO,
Jenn
Send Me Things (if you want to)
Jennifer Marshall
1455 32nd street #6488
Fargo, ND 58109

[@TheBookRefuge]

There is some amazing discussion going on in my Discord under the Taboo Book Club tab. So check that out for more thoughts!!

[@danyyyyyyyy]

This is such a difficult topic to talk about. Some time ago a "friend" of mine asked me what were the last dark romance books I'd read and so I told her I'd recently read Untouchable by Sam Mariano and that I absolutely loved the hero in it and then I told her about the Twist me trilogy by Anna Zaires and how much I loved it. But I had NO idea she would ever read them cuz she's NOT about that life, you know? So I didn't think to tell her about the NC and DubCon that was in those. Unfortunately, she did read Untouchable and the first book in the Twist me trilogy. After she was done, she came at me and was like "How dare you read such things! You should be ashamed of yourself for glorifying and enjoy reading about rape! I don't even know how these books are allowed to be sold anywhere!You're a horrible person blablabla". I tried to explain things to her but she wouldn't hear anything about it so..... After that I started feeling bad about myself and my reading taste and stuff, I felt like I was a bad person for enjoying those types of books... It was horrible. Anyways, I feel like you explained everything really well. I wish there was a video like this when all of this happened haha. I hate feeling ashamed of the books I love to read. I haven't finished it yet but I love this video already Jenn! Thankssss 🤍

[@TheBookRefuge]

Yeah, the issue comes when people assume you can't read a book and enjoy the feelings it gives you without jumping to the conclusion that you want it done to you. But that is ridiculous. There is SO many things in books you wouldn't want to happen to you. It does not take the fun or desire away from the feelings it gives you. But I do understand the shame of it. So I don't usually tell everyone.

[@danyyyyyyyy]

@@TheBookRefuge yeah, everything you said about people making such assumptions is spot on. I wish people were more open-minded or willing to at least listen to what we have to say on the matter. And same I don't usually tell people I read dark romance, taboo romance and even BDSM romance with darker kinks involved unless I know they won't judge me for it.

[@deadmanreading3152]

I mean... had she not heard of reading the back cover of a book you're about to read? Seems kind've hard to "accidentally," read this stuff. Especially when they have content warnings. Seriously, people are more quick to condemn girls/women reading taboo stuff as opposed to condemning actual abusers. Yeah, I get things don't exist in a vacuum and society and rape culture blah, blah, blah, but to me reading books like this requires a suspension of disbelief just like any other fiction. No one should feel ashamed for what they enjoy as a fantasy and frankly, I think most of the haters are just repressed anyway. I know I certainly was.

[@KenyaWright]

That sucks that she judged you from what you read. So sorry that happened to you.

[@DawnoftheJungle]

I’m sorry someone made you feel that way. I go through the same things, I just don’t talk about the books I read unless it’s to other Dark romance people. Otherwise I find a lot of unwanted and sometimes cruel criticism from others.

[@KaylanaXiong]

Thank you for talking about this. I enjoy the dominant feeling in dubious consent when I read, but I'd NEVER WISH it on myself or anyone. Its just a guilty pleasure/fantasy of mine. So thank you for this video. Please keep your content coming. I love your judgement-free channel💕💕

[@crystalsbookishlife]

I am 100% here for this video. I love you are starting this discussion. Just started watching 💜

[@TheBookRefuge]

Its a big one. But someone has to do it.

[@Dmfriend26]

I'm glad you made this video. I'm going to buddy read Desperate Measures with a friend now, and I'm excited to discuss that book with them. There's definitely a malice against these kinds of stories, and it's unwarranted. Fantasy should never be put down as if it were a crime. We're all readers and we deserve to enjoy all kinds of stories.

[@ameliamariah4757]

I could never describe my interest in this genre to anyone else. It is also funny when you say "No one wants to be a s3x slave"...because...

[@melissazanni4833]

You are the best!! I can’t tell you how much I appreciate the fearless and sensitive way in which you approach discussions that can make many uncomfortable. There are so many romance readers that don’t even like to admit they read romance let alone talk about the darker stuff, right? You just have such a thoughtful, nonjudgmental way about you. The video where you discussed Priest and the compassion and sensitivity you showed towards that book, well, it made clear to me you have a real understanding of people. I respect and honor space for all and am totally comfortable not agreeing, etc, but I don’t like the bashing of books or unfriendly language towards writers and books just because a particular book wasn’t for them. Thank you for creating this space on here that really is a refuge! ❤️

[@TheBookRefuge]

Thank you Melissa! It is hard when people can't just discuss it without kink shaming, or cussing you out for loving something. It is very frustrating to me. I try to be very understanding and compassionate to people who have TW for things I love, but I also won't stand for people hating on some else's fantasy. So I try to see all sides/

[@Christy0440]

Yes! Great video. Answered exactly what I wanted to know about those abbreviations!

[@KenyaWright]

I'd heard about Dubcon but not CNC. Im so glad you broke down the different variations.

[@alainnamacpherson2521]

Such a touchy subject but something that definitely needs to be discussed sometimes.

[@heabooktubes]

One of my favorite cnc/fantasy books is Dirty Filthy Rich Men by Laurelin Paige. ♥️🍂

[@bhuvisaluja153]

Hey Jen! I love your channel and I am so glad you made this video. You totally answered alot of my questions regarding this topic. I enjoy dub-con books but don't like non-con when the rape isn't addressed and just brushed over. But, I did read Sordid because of your recommendation and really liked it, especially since the rape was sort of addressed and not brushed under the carpet. More power to you to read whatever you like, and I am so happy that your channel is a sort of safe space where we can discuss such topics without judgement. Thankyou!💜💜

[@TheBookRefuge]

I agree! In Sordid the heroine calls it what it is and doesn't become brainwashed. Her situation is not ideal, but that book is still very sexy and a lot of fun when you give into it. This is a hard topic and I don't think we should ignore that, but there is still room for fun and fantasy without readers being accused of being a monster.

[@bhuvisaluja153]

@@TheBookRefuge I agree!

[@ash120ify]

This is an excellent and important video. Thank you to explaining this topic and showing the books where we can come across it. One of my favorite books is Asking for it because of how it handled dubious consent. To be honestly, I didn't like A Hunger like no Other for the reasons you mentioned. In my case, I need to be aware that we're going to encounter dubcon so I can enjoy the book. I used read dubcon a lot, but I was judge because of it. These stories are there to be consumed as they are and not to be judged. Again thank you for this!! ❤️💜❤️💜

[@BeautifullyBookishBethany]

I appreciate you having this conversation. This isn't something I like, but it's helpful to have a better understanding of why other people do. Ice Planet Barbarians I could deal with because he's not human and once he realizes consent is an issue he tries to get it and respects her boundaries. It's interesting to me though how people who do have some kind of trauma in their past can react and cope with that in very different ways- sometimes with the idea of being in control of the things that are happening to them in some of these kinds of scenarios. For me, I am really turned off by the idea of a woman being controlled by a man and even more aggressive, physically dominating moves sexually I'm not a fan of. Like grabbing someone's throat for instance. But being on booktube has been helpful in understanding that my feelings about it are not the same as other people's. I'm much more okay with having a dominant female, or even in an f/f relationship, just as long as it's not a guy doing it.

[@TheBookRefuge]

I respect that and I know that it is more of a niche fandom/tropes that people love. But I really enjoy it and I just hate that it gets attacked without thinking about why someone would like it. But that's romance.

[@ychanel8182]

Has anyone read Truly by Carmel Rhodes? It’s so good. It’s along the same lines as Untouchable

[@TheBookRefuge]

I keep hearing that! It is in my kindle! I have been in a HR mood lately, so my kindle just keeps building!!!

[@theglowup9623]

new subscriber here! just been binge watching all your recommendation videos 😅 this is definitely not my thing but i find it really interesting to hear about. You’ve really opened my eyes to a whole new genre. I’m much more tame in my reading taste though at the minute but at the end of the day it is a real life fantasy/ kink and for some people as well they’d prefer to read about it over watching it in porn for example where you may not fully know that it was consensual non consent. with fiction it’s literally not real so you can be certain no one was actually harmed in the making of it but also explore whatever you’re into. I think because most people who read these things are adults with intelligent enough minds to see the nuance it’s not an issue. I personally enjoy books with jealousy and possessiveness but I don’t romanticise that in real life, I just like it in romance. it’s fantasy. I think a lot of relationships like this are also seen in fantasy books but it’s somehow seen as more acceptable

[@TheBookRefuge]

Thanks for joining and thanks for your honestly! I am glad not everyone likes the same things, but I can still understand peoples love of other kinds of stories.

[@deadmanreading3152]

Yeah, I could write a book itself on this stuff, but other much smarter people have done it already. Something I've noticed is nonconsent/dubious consent becomes even more difficult if you want to write characters that are LGBTQ+, non-white, etc in these kinds of relationships because then you're 'perpetuating harmful stereotypes.' Even if you're from those groups. All kinds of people like all kinds of fantasy and kinks. I like reading about experiences and situations from all walks of life. Also for the community to be as welcoming and open-minded as possible. If a story is interesting and well-written who cares if it involves some very non-PC stuff? The more depraved, dangerous and straight-up evil a love/lust interest is the better for me. Honestly, though it's like some people have never heard of distinguishing fantasy from reality or believe others incapable of doing it.

[@TheBookRefuge]

I am so here for this!!! Blunt but I feel you. Look up the book first and stay away if you need to

[@rebeccaw9656]

So, I just started reading A Hunger Like No Other... Thanks for your post, I’ve had this book forever, but you’re the first one to explain it like you did😊 and I’m now just super-curious! I’ve also had Desperate Measures forever, Lol. Captive is currently on sale for 99c, I added to my library😉.

[@TheBookRefuge]

I hope you enjoy it! I think it hits people hard at the beginning but the deeper you go into it, the more layers their are to it.

[@princessjoy007]

Thank you for going in depth with this. People have certain vices and kinks. There are certain communities where consenting adults indulge in their “itches”, unashamed. My ‘not for me’ might be your ‘yes please’.

[@heabooktubes]

I’m so excited to finally watch this. ♥️♥️♥️

[@TheBookRefuge]

Yes!! We have conversation galore happening It has been really good

[@FromJessToYou]

Quite the list! Thanks!

[@authoressmonicalsmith]

As an author, I was always told to stay away from non-consensual sex scenes. I didnt know there was even a market for that type of writing.

[@TheBookRefuge]

um. yeah, it is definitely there. I am a big fan of writing styles where it is done right. You should check out Untouchable and tell me what you think.

[@authoressmonicalsmith]

@@TheBookRefuge, I will get it today. Im finishing up Bewitching this weekend and I purchased Capture on Audible and will be listening to that, and then I will get Untouchable next and read that.

[@sharmilitalukdar8866]

Definitely recommend hunting adeline, tooooo spicy with a great plot as well❤️❤️

[@tonifloerchinger3462]

Great revues...keep 'em coming.

[@heabooktubes]

I didn’t have any issues recognizing the first scene in desperate measures as cnc. ♥️

[@TheBookRefuge]

Good to know! I had no warning the first time and I was like.. woah

[@Tracywhited2]

Great vid. I’ll be reading every book. Lol.

[@DawnoftheJungle]

Just want to say, I’m here for the dark content! No shame to anyone reading these types of books! I very much so enjoy your channel and have found some amazing books per your Recs! Keep the darkness coming! Lol

[@JessenReadsRomance]

I'm settling in for this video 😍

[@TheBookRefuge]

Please please please, come over to my discord after you do. We have a great discussion starting over there. That will be really amazing. This was hard to talk about but I know I'm not the only one who likes it toxic now and then

[@JessenReadsRomance]

@@TheBookRefuge I’ll head over there after I finish!

[@kymberlyschalkboard8035]

Good video. Thank you!

[@WorldTourCouch]

I came here from Haunting Adeline because it's my first dub-con/ non-con. I felt uncomfortable through it and wanted to understand more of this side of literature. I'll read some of the recs to understand this side of dark Romance cause I've had fantasies and watched vids* i enjoyed so I'll give the literature side another chance. You were great and thank you for the information.

[@TheBookRefuge]

Happy to help. I will agree that I felt very strange and it felt extremely taboo the first time I read one like that... but it is actually a VERY common fantasy and once you start to understand that and maybe find a few you really connect with... maybe that will open up to you too!

[@leannelynn7938]

I recommend Red Thorns and the Royal Elite Series by Rina Kent.

[@avasromancebooks]

💖💖💖

[@Heothbremel]

💝

[@scarlettpickens2626]

That's why cnc is a thing. It's so people who have these fantasy's they can do it safely but still have fun and enjoy it!

[@sharmilitalukdar8866]

You are so brave ❤️

[@Hannah_Rachel_and_Kotik]

Try the books KNOTTED- Pam Godwin & Hard Way - Katie Porter

[@chandipoalses2091]

Do you have a written list of CNC, Taboo and Dark Romances? I love your videos but I would love just a long list of all of the (or just a photo of your bookshelf!)

[@TheBookRefuge]

Check out my Dark Romance playlist! I have all those recs and more

[@tani2322]

Is there a Facebook link?

[@TheBookRefuge]

I don't have a Facebook group. I do have a Discord for chatting! Link is im my description box!

[@h.s.l6875]

What do you hink about teenage grils (14-16) reading explicit romance with toxic/dark themes? Lately, I've seen young girls in libraries reading those books and I'm so against it because their brains are not close to being fully developed yet, and they don't have that separation an adult has between fantasy and real life, and so those types of situations; like rough s*x, domination, bullying, bsdm, etc are presented through a romance story which paint them as less bad and a bit murky which can actually end up hurting those girls.

[@vibingonthenet]

If people on juries had the knowledge that romance readers do regarding consent and non-consent the world would be a much better place ❤️

[@TheBookRefuge]

Slow clap for this one. If they don't say yes, or the consent wasn't talked about at some point, then its NOT CONSENSUAL and its a crime. I think that is something people disregard about people who like reading these books. I am VERY aware of if a character has given consent or not. Since I am always looking for it.

[@acourtofbooksandbakes]

It's a tough topic, people need to remember that its fiction - it's not real. I enjoyed Desperate Measures by Katee Robert and can see how the start of the book could put people off if you don't pick up on the words used by Jasmine.

[@TheBookRefuge]

Yes! I didn't notice the first time, I just thought it was a forced fantasy scene. But Katee writes consent in everywhere

[@nanda483]

Thank you for this video!

[@Satyaapatel]

I love you, this is perfect. I always had to hide my particular taste and here you are saying “Fuck it, just like it.”🤍 it’s so hard to explain why and how I like it but it doesn’t make sense in my brain unless I have it this way. 🪽

[@TheBookRefuge]

I can totally understand why it feels shameful. It's hard to explain why we like certain things. But reading about it and processing it in a safe way is a good thing. And it can be sexy in fiction what would be criminal and awful in life. 😘 I will ALWAYS be a safe space.

[@Heothbremel]

💝

[@scarlettpickens2626]

That's why cnc is a thing. It's so people who have these fantasy's they can do it safely but still have fun and enjoy it!