Jesus' Divinity and Monotheism in the New Testament: Dr. Richard Bauckham and Dr. Ben Witherington

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Dr. Richard Bauckham and Dr. Ben Witherington III discuss Jesus and Monotheism in the New Testament.

[@joelrodriguez1232]

From a Historical point of view, the earliest Christology is always the highest which means that Jesus was always understood to be the divine God of Israel.

[@Hastenforthedawm]

The earliest christology and highest form in the new testament is only adoptionism, where Jesus is merely the created son of God

[@kardiognostesministries8150]

@@Hastenforthedawm Since Jesus is the proper recipient of prayer demonstrates He is God and not a created being.

[@Hastenforthedawm]

@@kardiognostesministries8150 that is circular reasoning. Jesus is not the recipient of prayer.

[@kardiognostesministries8150]

@@Hastenforthedawm Yes, He is. kzbin.info/www/bejne/g6PYnqueaaZsbM0

[@randypacchioli2933]

Jesus truly is God incarnate. Thank you for your sound teachings.

[@muhammadalmahdi2213]

Randy Pacchioli Jesus is not God and never claimed to be. Jesus states in the New Testament, "I have not come to destroy the Law(of Moses), or the Prophets, I have come to fulfill their Prophecies (reguarding a prophet being born from a virgin). The First commandment is, "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me". Jesus was created so there for cannot be the creator. He peed, he pooped. God doesn't do any of that. God created us with the nature of being needy and sinful. Jesus was a Prophet aka Messenger of Almighty God. His 2nd coming will be the Messiah, Christ comes from the Greek word Christos which means "Messiah". God has no image in this Realm. Anyone who worships Jesus when he never told us to will go to Hell Fire. Beware, you have been warned for your know good. 3 in 1 = 3 polytheistic parts of God. do the Math and save your souls.

[@muhammadalmahdi2213]

Muhammad Al Mahdi Ask the Jewish Rabbis if the Prophets ever spoke of a "Son of God" before this falsified testament that Paul taught. Let everyone know the answer. I guarantee that they'll say "no".

[@muhammadalmahdi2213]

Muhammad Al Mahdi If Jesus was God, why did Jesus pray? kind of hypocritical don't you think? If Jesus in the Lord's Prayer said, "thy Lord, thou art in Heaven", doesn't that mean, "your Lord, He is in Heaven"? the church is teaching falsehood. Save your souls by rebelling against falsehood. Defend Jesus by knowing the Truth about Jesus. If you Love Jesus, then wake up and smell the coffee. Read the Bible and actually stop blindly following these Priests and Pastors. Hell is not a pleasant place to go to, trust me.

[@randypacchioli2933]

The Second Person of the blessed trinity became incarnate in Christ. This is a bedrock doctrine of the Holy Bible.

[@IndianaJoe0321]

@@muhammadalmahdi2213 wrote, "Ask the Jewish Rabbis if the Prophets ever spoke of a Son of God." They would direct you to the Two Powers passages in the Hebrew Bible which show two Yahweh's, yet only one Yahweh. Jewish Two Powers theology existed until around 100 A.D. when it was rendered heresy by the rabbis due to so many Jews converting to Christianity.

[@anissueofursincerity]

Prof. Anthony Buzzard has just posted a response to this.

[@elvirciceklic8373]

I watched it. Kinda sketchy that he's disputing the doctrine of the Trinity. That could just be cuz I'm stuck in my own paradigm and worldview, but that does not sit well with me.

[@akimoetam1282]

Buzzard is a joke

[@markgenn8967]

Colossians 2:9 For In Him dwells ALL of the Fulness of the Godhead Bodily. Colossians 1:19-22 For it pleased the Father that In Him should all fulness dwell; 1 Timothy 3:16, KJV: "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was Manifest in the Flesh, justified in the Spirit, Seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory." WHO WAS? GOD WAS. IT'S ALL IN HIM HE JESUS IS; THE ALPHA AND OMEGA BEFORE ABRAHAM WAS; I AM THE LAMB; WHICH WAS SLAIN "BEFORE " THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD. Speaking to those who had Obeyed the Gospel. In The Church Ephesians 4:5-7 ONE LORD-- ONE FAITH-- ONE BAPTISM One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. Mathew 28:19= key word NAME John 3:1-7= key phrase Must be-Water & Spirit Matthew 16:19=Jesus gave Peter the Keys Acts 2:38=Peter with the 11 standing with him --used those Keys--and Preached the same message Jesus Preached to Nicodemus John 3:5. Baptized in the NAME of JESUS CHRIST. NOT THE TITLES OF; father son and holy ghost. ACTS 4:12 No Other NAME

[@JacovZ1981]

"Divine identity" is logically flawed and contradictory of the indiscernibility of identicals. A better construct is needed, sorry.

[@spicerc1244]

No. Personal identity is fully defined by the thoughts of the individual, not the matter they are made up of. Jesus and God are of the same essence but have different thoughts: I am the Son; I am the Father. You and I are both humanity but we have separate thoughts, leading to our differing comments.

[@joelrodriguez1232]

The Shema strengthens the case for the Trinity, therefore the Tri-une God of the scripture is the only form of monotheism that makes sense. It's a good idea to not use the word nature when we speak of the Hebrew Bible and New testament but identity.

[@MitzvosGolem1]

Tertullian invented Trinity only to reject it himself as idolatry in 190ce

[@IndianaJoe0321]

Why are you making stuff up? The Bible clearly teaches Trinitarian doctrine. Tertullian, like any true born-again believer, would believe the doctrine of the Trinity because the scriptures teach it.

[@MitzvosGolem1]

@@IndianaJoe0321 that is a historical fact. Verify. 1 John 5:7-8 is an admitted insertion into Christian scripture creeds after 4th century. Johanna Comma debate about this addition and Trinity went on for centuries. Church burned all alive who rejected Trinity. Catholic and Protestant s both did such.

[@MitzvosGolem1]

@@IndianaJoe0321 It does not appear in original Koine greek new testament anywhere from 125ce Papyrus oldest Original New testament ever found and is a Catholic invention from 300ce forced into your bible and creeds for Centuries.

[@cyprian2587]

Terullian wasn’t even the first extant writer to use the term trinity (theophilus of Antioch was) and didn’t even believe in the trinity in the sense that nicene trinitarians do. The “trinitarian theology”, if you can call it that, of the 2nd century was super influenced by platonic presuppositions about the chain of being and intermediates between God and creation. They did their best to explain how there was this triadic nature of God to pagan critics.

[@MitzvosGolem1]

@@cyprian2587 I will add this to my notes . Thank you.

[@mitchellc4]

Hello Jesus is the Messiah The Son of God The Son of David The Son of man The man God has chosen to be his anointed king The man God will judge the world through The man God raised from the dead Jesus has a God There is no triune god in scripture Jesus said the Father is the only true God! John 17 3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.

[@kardiognostesministries8150]

The Son of God (John 20:31) is "my God" (John 20:28).

[@gerryquinn5578]

Are these guys really reading the same NT as I am? The Jesus of the NT prayed to and worshiped the God of Israel, the LORD (YHWH). Indeed, even his name YEHOshua means somethin like Yehovah is salvation. The NT says that Jesus was executed and died. He was dead. His death is mentioned repeatedly. An eternal, immortal God cannot die. The NT says he was raised from the dead and exalted to the right hand of God. Who raised and exalted him.? The NT shows that all authority was given to him. Who gave him the authority? The confession of faith found in the NT was that Jesus was the Messiah ( Christ ),. the Son of God.This is how the first Christians viewed him. The Jews did not view the promised Messiah or "Anointed One " as God, but as God's agent, his plenipiotentiary. And this is how Jesus is depicted in the NT. The early Christians did not incorporate or graft Jesus into the Godhead. They viewed Jesus as the Son of God, a distinct being . They had one LORD God, and one Lord Messiah. They did not view them as the same. In Paul's letters, he sends greetings from TWO, the LORD God, the Father and from the Lord Jesus , the. Messiah. One is the God of the other. One is he agent of the other. Paul saw Jesus in the role of divine agent, the one through whom God creates; the one for whom God creates. The idea that Jews didn't really understand that their God was somehow triune is laughable. Bauckham is projecting later beliefs about Jesus and his relationship with God, whether Binitarian or trinitarian back into the text. Most scholars have the decency to admit that these ideas developed in post Apostolic times and that the OT and NT knew nothing of Trinitarianism.

[@michaelbrickley2443]

Gerry Quinn, so John was not calling Him Co Equal in his gospel? And if you look into the teaching of Dr. Michael Heiser, you’d find him showing you Two Yahs in the OT. And the Spirit as well.

[@gerryquinn5578]

@@michaelbrickley2443 : Absolutely ! Jesus is always subordinate to the Father. He constantly differentiates himself from God. (Joh 17 :3) He prays to God. He worships God. He actually clearly says that he has a God (John 20 :17). This is not to say that he is not the promised Messiah/ Anointed One, the Christ, God's pleniotentiary. Indeed, he claims that all authority has been given to him . We must remember that the original comfessiopn of faith in the gospels is that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. Who will you trust? John and the other Evangelists or Michael Heiser? I am aware of Heiser's presentation.It would take too long to show his errors and highlight his specious reasoning. This is not the forum for that. Suffice to say that most Jewish exegetes understand the Shema . Indeed, many Christian scholars admit that the doctrine of the Trinity was not taught in the OT and is not even explicit in the NT, but evolved over a period of time. To project ideas like this back into the text in eisegesis.

[@michaelbrickley2443]

@@gerryquinn5578, the Shema became the go to because of the Trinity. Sorry but you are way off.

[@gerryquinn5578]

@@michaelbrickley2443 : Seriously ? Jesus restated the Shema (Mark 12 :29,30) so I guess he was just another "go to" kind a guy.

[@michaelbrickley2443]

@@gerryquinn5578, this argument is often provided by Muslims. Believe what you choose. You’re wrong but what would I know. My teachers all have Doctorates. Ph.D’s, D.T’s..