Jesus Is Very Difficult to Understand and Relate To | Jonathan Pageau & Dr. Martin Shaw

[@JonathanPageauClips]

Sign up for Dr. Martin Shaw's first-ever live online course, Christian Wonder Tales, starting November 12th. This 4-week, 8-hour course is hosted on the Symbolic World Circle Community. Patrons at the Involved level or higher get 10% off, apply your discount code at checkout: www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/christian-wonder-tales Mythographer, writer, and storyteller Dr Martin Shaw takes us deep into the heart of what he calls Christian Wonder Tales. Profoundly mythic, these teaching stories range from the early saints through to the grandeur of the Round Table and Arthurian tradition. Shaw emphasises these stories as remerging providentially on time for the perils of modern life. Filled with vocation, sacrifice, and courage, these are an inheritance many of us simply didn’t know we had.

[@cbasallie]

@cbasallie You struggle because you lack a child’s heart. Humble yourself soon because as we age, our sight often gets dimmer

[@ethanmiller5487]

I think you missed the point of Christianity if you think YOU have, in any way, shape, or form, control over how the creator of reality relates to you as a human. We humans have to change to be able to relate to absolute perfection because perfection can't change. It wouldn't be perfect anymore if perfection did change. The degree you relate to God is the same degree you have submitted to Him. He is, you should be better.

[@mondopinion3777]

In the pleasant solitude of extreme old age I find myself in relationship, closer than any marriage, with Christ Jesus who is utterly beyond my comprehension, ever more and more beyond. And yet I completely trust Him. It is a strange feeling. But then, I think, my own being too is utterly beyond my comprehension. We must come to Him as little children..

[@anna-mariadimitrova1607]

So, so beautiful! Thank you!

[@dominicpaul1]

Beautifully expressed ❤️

[@Jesusissupremebeauty]

What a beautiful sentiment. One of my favorite comments I've ever read on KZbin. I actually screenshot this so I can look back on this time to time haha. By any chance, do you write?

[@MiminNB]

This is so beautiful. Thank you for these beautiful words.

[@aylahughes9185]

he speaks the truth that is written already on our hearts. such a truth is only clouded with age and sin. he is the great healer. the good one and the encourager. bless you sir, and may when it is time, may you rest so easily with him.

[@ryanwilmes9732]

‘In every experience of beauty, we are being prepared for eternity’

[@KW-mz4pn]

Dr. Martin’s statement “as a Christian I live in a state of intolerable exposure.” So true!!!!😂

[@DivineAlchemyOfSouls]

the revelations just keep on coming… waiitttttttt a minute!!!

[@thomasbuck303]

"Its a constant low level humiliation. " 🤣 I relate

[@DivineAlchemyOfSouls]

@@thomasbuck303 me too…

[@notloki3377]

wonderfully honest and raw. this type of christian conversation is what i like. for people who claim to value humility, many christians seem awfully confident in their ability to confront the infinite or even "the very large."

[@homelesseconomist]

Exactly I've been looking for a healthy online Christian community that doesn't act like they know everything about everything then and there but instead approaches the Bible and divinity like a curious scientist

[@notloki3377]

@@homelesseconomist this is pretty close, jordan peterson hits the mark when he's talking to atheists, stephen meyer has done some good work. should list the disclaimer that i'm not a christian, but our traditions are interrelated so i keep up with the cousins, so to speak...

[@treybarnes5549]

y’all said out loud where I travel in my mind all the time. Beautiful conversation.

[@andypresby6537]

“A constant low level humiliation” …. so true! Good but not pleasant.

[@jknkjnkjnkj8967]

I have to say, i really appreciate you both mentioning the OT. as a very very very new Christian (who came into the faith from Kierkegaard talking about abraham and isaac as a secular philosophy student, no less), I often struggle and DOUBT the apparent contradictions shown in the OT. I also often have to work through the apparent lack of character "inner worlds" (why did Aaron build the calf in exodus? why did Moses STRIKE the rock in numbers? why was Jacob such a schemer?) it takes a LOT of close reading. I think the beauty of struggling with the OT has really opened my mind to seeing Christ, repentance, and faith in a way more holistic light. beautiful video, I feel extremely inspired to keep going through the OT

[@Jesusissupremebeauty]

That is a beautiful conversion story. Søren Kierkegaard is one of my favorite philosophers -- I'm just curious. What was it about his writings specifically that led to your conversion? :)🙏💖✨

[@jknkjnkjnkj8967]

@Jesusissupremebeauty hah thanks for asking! honeslty I reread fear and trembling every so often. I find it inspirational but I've always been "unable" to put myself in his "knight of faith" mindset. I've never been able to be Abraham-like, my own sense of doubts are way too strong, and God is only really audible when your head is quiet. I've always been a theist, but my attitude towards faith growing up was always sort of "Wittgenstenian" in the sense that I think it's literally the most important part of human thought...BUT it's impossible to talk about or even think clearly about in all its fullness - and therefore, its very very hard to participate in it. Wittgenstein himself was torn between this positivist landscape he was educated in, and this aspiration towards the things that eluded the positivists, and honestly I get that a lot. I always saw faith as a sort of private language (btw, I grew up hindu). that's literally the beauty of Christianity though. by opening my heart to Christ I break the whole language paradox and become part of something more whole and larger than language and systems. THAT is what Communion is. THAT is why I affirm the trinity - if Christ was never a man then I am unable to enter a true union with the Lord if that makes sense. and that's why I struggle so much with the eastern faiths I grew up with! if God is just a voice in my head though....that only engenders bad habits, at least for someone so full of sinful inclinations towards passion like myself. I guess I've always aspired to be a "knight of faith" as it were and Christianity gives me the tools to actually take that aspiration seriously, take steps towards it, learn how to worship, etc. and repent any misgivings on my journey. the RIGOR of Christianity is what enables thinkers like kierkegaard to talk so profoundly about faith, at least for me. I apologize, wasn't fully about kierkegaard at all and ended up being about a different philosopher 😩, but my interest in his use of faith to defeat existential dread is what I find inspiring. it's just been hard to truly get there.

[@resilientrecoveryministries]

@@jknkjnkjnkj8967 we're all Jacobs, wrestling with God. Wrestle with those verses and tell them, "I won't let you go till you bless me!"

[@DivineAlchemyOfSouls]

The Old testament is Old as well as the New; live your life and you shall learn more about God than you ever could through a book.

[@dokwannabe]

Aaron built the golden calf likely because of the effigy of the Semitic Yahweh was a bull. And they didn’t have the Ten Commandments yet so crafting an idol of their god made sense to them. The Torah authors were likely a Yahwist sect that didn’t believe in graven images.

[@onlyjoshing]

I may never understand Christ, but he understands me. I hope to love Him and be loved by him.

[@D-777i]

3:24 "...he's a figure moving through the treeline" I can relate to that.

[@thomasbuck303]

Then all of the sudden he is right beside you speaking quietly in your ear.

[@jacktaylor7264]

I had never thought about the fact verses like “I have not come to bring peace, but a sword” Matthew 10:34, which seem paradoxical and contradictory to Jesus’ teachings; actually corroborate the validity of the Gospel. Sometimes I just need the extra oomph to course-correct my tendencies of unbelief; I give thanks to God for working through you both ✝️

[@jorgeoyola7420]

I may not always understand him but, I understand one thing, he died for my sins and rose on the third day

[@rainastor4789]

Wow, the both of you talking... I wish I could start every day like this.

[@brodelicious]

Whether or not I understand him I know that he knows and understands me and my situation. “Man of sorrows and acquainted with grief” is enough to tell me that he sits or stands in solidarity with me in my suffering.

[@resilientrecoveryministries]

He's the Alpha and Omega. He brings together things we have to keep separated. He is the King that washes feet. The lion and the Lamb. . .

[@jarredtimes8260]

He’s also the dude that will give your grandpa lung cancer and create a mass that tears apart his whole respiratory system as he dies in excruciating agony

[@jarredtimes8260]

He’s also the dude that created a world where your 97lb child daughter could have her vagina torn apart by a 210lb man raping her. She’ll be screaming and pleading for god to help her but the dude will keep structurally destroying her genitalia. Do you think it’s a good idea to create a reality in which that could happen. God doesn’t give a fuck about you

[@dohope4554]

​@@jarredtimes8260do not conflate the wretched world with the one who created it

[@Meteor_pending]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who has this experience.

[@fujikokun]

Yes, this is why when people say “be like Christ” it’s not good advice. He did a lot of unexpected and confusing things. Better approach is to humble yourself utterly and become nothing, and let your heart be a throne for Christ, and then you will be righteous.

[@TheB1nary]

"Be ye holy, as God is holy." What's the difference between that and being "Christlike"?

[@younggrasshopper3531]

We believe in, listen to (read Bible), talk to (pray), and love Christ, then being like Christ will be a natural outcome (fruit of the spirit). Trying to be like Christ in our own strength only brings self righteousness and eventually despair, not the joy and peace of being one with Christ

[@Krehfish534]

​@@TheB1nary we aren't called to be like Jesus, but to submit to him, serve him, and do what he tells us. If you go to a great physician and afterwards decide that the solution is to do what the physician does, you will fail, you aren't a physician unless he trains you. So you submit to his prescriptions and learn from him. Be holy as God is holy is good advice. But the first step is submission, not imitation. Imitation without submission is a recipe for pride.

[@TheB1nary]

@Krehfish534 Philippians 2:5: "In your lives you must think and act like Christ Jesus"; Romans 8:29: "God has predestined His people to be conformed to the image of His Son" ; Luke 9:23: "If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me." There are plenty more. Follow Me. Think and act like Him. Ephesians 5:1 - we are to follow God's example. Ephesians 4:22ff tells us to put on "the new self," which is "created after the likeness of God." We could go on.

[@TheB1nary]

@Krehfish534 At the end of your comment, you erect a straw man: i didn't deny that we should submit. Becoming like Christ is not possible without submission to Him.

[@g3nj1]

There are moments that I understand Jesus, and those are the moments that give me faith. It may not be easy for people to understand Jesus, and is a good reminder to check yourself, but that understanding is why people connect and agree with the Bible.

[@gaspingfortruth]

We tend to interpret the commandment of “Love your enemies” as a statement to eradicate the category of enemy. This is a catastrophic mistake. We are in fact commanded to have enemies AND love them.

[@wyattfuchs8079]

Where is the commandment to have enemies? Not trying to be argumentative, genuinely curious.

[@gaspingfortruth]

@ it’s implied in the commandment to love your enemy.

[@dohope4554]

we can only love our enemies when we come to realize Christ, Jesus, and that all are made in His image

[@alexaugustynski3620]

I liked this. I think we keep each other accountable in a positive way and that is good.

[@boardtodeath46]

“The gospel of Christ is so simple, even small children have the best chance of understanding it”

[@AlexanderosD]

Well said, thank you gentlemen! Jesus has such a "realness" to Him that draws us but is truly unrelatable and fascinating. My friend and I talk about it on occasion, how can we relate to the perfect sinless divine Son of God?; But I think the realness of His humanity is alien to us as well. Jesus is the most fully human person to live and in our flawed humanity he is like a stranger in a strange land to us. "every encounter with beauty is preparing us for eternity." - that is an excellent statement.

[@ZebLewis]

The promise of Jesus wasn’t to send a Bible. It was to send his spirit. It was that we could have a sense of scroll communication and relationship with the creator of the universe.

[@john4226]

"Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my Word shall never pass away." "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness," Jesus also said, "You are in error not knowing the scripture or the power of God" Genesis states "In the beginning was the Word..." We need the Bible and the Holy Spirit. They are inseparable. It is a travesty to put our own thoughts above what the Bible clearly states.

[@ZebLewis]

@@john4226 the Bible couldn’t be on the same level as the person of Jesus. The law came by Moses but grace and truth came through Jesus. The greatest truth is in the person of Jesus not in things written by men. Inspired means inspired not transcribed. You are welcome to worship the Bible if you like but I just saw a man’s fingertips grow back so I’ll just believe in Jesus. You should research the difference between the written scripture and the voice of God. They are both translated “word”. In the beginning was the voice and the voice was with God and the voice was God.

[@john4226]

@ZebLewis Jesus IS the word. "And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.." I do not worship the Bible. I worship the person of Jesus Christ who died for me and forgave me for my many sins. I understand the difference between the written word of God and the voice of God, which speaks to our hearts. I have taught the Bible for many years and have had the privilege of seeing many destroyed lives changed by the miraculous power of the Holy Spirit. Have you had the privilege of preaching the Word of God (the Bible) and seeing hundreds of drug addicts, prostitutes and others come to Christ and be instantly healed of their addictions and never return to their former lives? I have. It is because of the power of the Word of God being used while being led by the Holy Spirit. "For the word of God is quick and powerful and sharper than any two edged sword. Piercing even to the diving asunder of soul and spirit, and the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." Blessings to you, friend, as you awaken to the deep wonders of the Word of God.

[@john4226]

@ZebLewis Praise God for the miracle of healing! We worship the same Jesus only understand the importance of and the definition of the Word of God. I have witnessed cancer fall off of someone's face, gangrene healed, HIV healed, TB healed and the list could go on and on regarding God's miraculous healing power. "Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God." The written word is so important and such a valuable treasure to us. Thank you Jesus for your Word. Psalm 119 says it very clearly.

[@john4226]

@@ZebLewis Inspired means filled with and in the case of the scriptures they were moved by the Holy Spirit to write down what they were shown or told. The law, the prophets, history , poetry, etc. all inspired by God. Jesus is God. The Bible is the inspired revelation of who God is.

[@FrJohnBrownSJ]

For the record, Saint Francis if Assisi was not nice to everyone or hippy-dippy.

[@tedclemens4093]

We tend to think that Christ's perfection is according to the righteousness of law-with that being the example to follow. But the Law and Prophets were only to identify him when he came-and he was indeed righteous according to what had been written. But the disciple is not intended to be a little messiah. Jesus' example for us is the righteousness of relationship with God which he presented as a son to his father. For that, watch him closely. This is also David's example. At the end of his life, the "man after God's own heart" (as a son to his father?), could easily boast of his righteousness in spite of his well-known transgressions of law.

[@theeternalsbeliever1779]

The Law and the Prophets didn't just serve to identify the Messiah. 2 Tim. 3 says that ALL of scripture is for "instruction in righteousness". The Law and the Prophets provide doctrinal guidance for righteousness for today, just as it did in Christ's time. The Law and the Prophets is just much God's will in print as anything in the Second Testament.

[@ncarollo504]

Not growing up with my “real” dad, I always related to Jesus

[@kennyblobbin]

This is the best thing I’ve heard in a long time!

[@TheHouseOfBards]

As Jonathan said, Jesus as a prism embodies the completitude of human experience in one person. Yet at the same time thats funneled to one identity. His speech forms are so strange. Its almost like a chorus. So its the history of humankind given a voice and movement. But also the future and present. It just so happens that our history has mostly been a wretched one.

[@maxh_music]

I think this ties into Jordan Peterson’s “being a Christian is really hard” line of thinking he’s been talking about in the last few years which has confused believers. Of course it’s hard. He’s the ideal, but you don’t throw out the ideal because there is some mystery there or because it he’s too so high up.

[@marybuford9591]

Pray and bring the good angels to earth!

[@Messianic-Gentile]

There is no single formula to understanding these stories/parables. Christ is moving this way and that while still maintaining the Supreme Principle, himself being the incarnation of the Logos. The crowd tries to grab him, but he slips away. The Truth cannot be pinned down or defined. Mattheiu talks about this in his book. Space (structure/spoken word/law) is artificial and always surrounded by time (completeness/mystery/faith). Similarly, Lao Tzu famously says “the Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao”.

[@Messianic-Gentile]

This is also related to the idea that each person in the resurrection will receive a new name, known only to himself (Rev. 2:17)

[@leondbleondb]

Nice ​@@Messianic-Gentile

[@denniszaychik8625]

@@Messianic-Gentile Well said. Although I have to say that the understanding of space and time that Matthieu presented in his book has standard interpretation cliches of traditional/ conservative idealism.

[@Messianic-Gentile]

@@denniszaychik8625 I’m not too familiar with the ideas of idealism so maybe you can expand on that. From the outset, it seems that there is an important distinction between space/time and heaven/earth. Idealism seems to be concerned with heaven/earth (meaning/matter). Space and Time have to do with order and chaos, or what is known and unknown. To me, the very idea there is a pre-existing primordial chaos prior to the creation of the ordered world seems to disagree with idealism. In some sense, consciousness does create the *ordered* world, i.e. it creates order from chaos. However, meaning and matter is not dependent on consciousness to exist. What do you think?

[@denniszaychik8625]

@@Messianic-Gentile I agree with you for the most part. However you are a bit misled in the last part of your comment. Meaning is dependent on consciousness to exist for it is it's primary source. Prior to the emergency of complex beings capable to projecting it onto existing matter and natural events/cyclical patterns meaning didn't exist at all. Matter on the other hand has no need for consciousness for it existed prior to humanity and will continue to exist even after our potential demise ( which I personally hope is still a long way off). Also from the perspective of Matthieu along with Jonathan and numerous others order and chaos and meaning and matter are usually equated with each other in order to preserve their idealistic mindset. Additionally idealism is not so much about meaning and matter but rather about a dualistic division between a supposed all encompassing TRUTH and the lack or absence of said TRUTH.

[@jspin-can]

I don’t know guys, how is Jesus hard to understand and relate too exactly….. He’s the only thing that makes sense.

[@Joefrenomics]

I completely disagree. Jesus often makes no sense to me.

[@davepugh2519]

Where's the sense in punishing people simply for not believing in him?

[@BrianLassek]

I think the difference is relational personal & corporate theology, VS second hand & non relational religious theology. It's easy to understand stories about someone whom you have met and spent time with, but very confusing when everything is second hand.

[@BrianLassek]

​@@davepugh2519that view is not representative of the God that Christians worship. Rather, God has provided a place for those who have chosen to reject God. God prepared a place for Satan and his angels because they chose to reject God and they are seeking to pull us away from God with them.

[@JG-jg5ib]

If you think you understand Jesus, then go deeper.

[@Joefest99]

IT’S A KNOWN MISTRANSLATION Nehemiah Gordon an ancient texts translator (and a non-believer in Jesus) with Hebrew University in Jerusalem states that when Jesus says to “Listen to the Pharisees” that it is a much later mistranslation. There is a much earlier version of Matthew in Hebrew that states to “DO AS MOSES SAYS but DO NOT DO AS THE PHARISEES”. Again, it was a devastating mistranslation and Nehemiah clears it up in a very scholarly and precise way.

[@gcummings88]

since the contradictions are not contradictions they must be a different kind of blessing...

[@Bilhelmfirstofhisname]

How is Christ so humourless as being of such perfection is devoid of this level of humour. Or as I have philosophised through my own life experience is the humour his message vs the reality we experience through understanding his teachings and understanding the lessons and the irony

[@barathkrishna2977]

God allows himself to be revealed not to the proud in heart, not to those trying to analyse him, but to those who are trying to learn from him out of a contrite heart and loving and caring affection to him. To those he will reveal him, and when he does, it'll be visible in the way those people conduct their lives everyday.

[@ChaseyBearMagnanimity]

I don't know...seems like Christ is coming to everyone. Look at Saul who becomes Paul. There wasn't any humility there. Look at Peter. Maybe even Judas. There isn't any prerequisite to God's will. Love just is. God doesn't wait for us to be perfect prior to His perfecting us. It's actually the lowest point of our bondage that God frees us. Jonah is also a huge example. In the height of hell Christ descends to our ascension.

[@barathkrishna2977]

@@ChaseyBearMagnanimity yes because that's who he is. That's what love is supposed to look like. But we mustn't allow this to prevent us from seeking god saying well he's gonna save me anyways. The field is the master's, but the toiling is of his servants. Humility is the way of the Christian for it is written, to those who humble himself, more will be given, but to the proud, what is his will be taken.

[@ChaseyBearMagnanimity]

@@barathkrishna2977 Thanks for your response, but I don't think that's what Pageau and Martin are saying in this discussion. Saul did not have a contrite and humble heart for God to come to him. David was continually blowing it. Forgiveness always precludes repentance. And so why should we even try, you ask? That's putting the cart before the horse. It's when we quit trying to be gods that God rescues us. It's exactly when we have quit trying that God finally says "I am here, let me help you." So, "why should I even try" is exactly where the unfathomable meets us...what exactly are you trying for?

[@aga5109]

I agree. It has to be an encounter with the living God. A personal relationship of love and unity like between spouses. Surpassing human love many fold. Through living this union He reveals His face. Only through God's love we can be changed.

[@ChaseyBearMagnanimity]

@@aga5109 Yes indeed! Whatever happened to that unconditional love I was brought up to trust in? If we believe God doesn't come to us until the house is warm then He may warm the house for us. That's grace. The contrition, humility, compassion comes from His First loving and forgiving us by and through example.

[@aylahughes9185]

to know thyself is to love thyself, to love thyself one must spend time with thyself..... same for christ.

[@Shawncronicity]

And about the sword, yes we do remember it lol. The point is what to do with power. Do not strike with the sword just because you have it... Very clear and easy

[@jarthurl]

Gorgeous conversation. Thank you!

[@Nyghl0]

The degree to which you can attempt to conceive of perfection based on some text is as limitless as your imagination. So long as you're placing these ideals beyond your imperfect limits, you can chase awe endlessly. It's not at all hard to see the attraction of this mental indulgence.

[@CSUnger]

Well, it’s not as if the current culture presents a superior alternative.

[@Nyghl0]

@@CSUnger current culture has an enornous wealth of material beyond the Bible if you want to philosophise about ethical questions, pro-social behaviours, cooperative game theory and any number of other subjects. This obsession with relating it all back to just a single source, just to aggrandise it into something that can still be made out to be impressive by today's standards just seems so limiting. There's so much truth out there that you're missing out on because it doesn't relate back to a 2000 year old book.

[@CSUnger]

@Nygh10, Two questions occur to me in reading your response. First, do you think that those of us derive our”truth” from the text first, or do we respect the text because we’ve discovered its validity through experience and observation? And secondly, which standard have you discovered to be consistently reliable in distinguishing truth from error in your gathering of information from culture?

[@Nyghl0]

@@CSUnger the impression I get is that truth, experience and observation all come back to the text and are retroactively derived as having originated from it. By contrast the initial respect towards the text is mistaken as the consequence of being able to fit truth, experience and observation to it, when this respect was the cause and the whole motivation to do all that in the first place. Instead of using that approach, the study of Epistemology that began long before I was around, arrived at repeatability, objectivity and measurability as foundational in distinguishing truth from error (the scientific method).

[@Dovus-V]

This was a great talk.

[@freshmindnow]

Jesus is only difficult to relate to because most people don't understand themselves well. This is where my channel helps people with.

[@icysamurai1485]

In a way, Christ is like the Holy Spirit - He blows where He will, and no one can tell where He comes from and where He is going, or what He will say.

[@john4226]

Jesus is very easy to understand with the heart. "Except a man be converted and become as a child, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God". We must have childlike faith to understand Jesus and his love. We don't need anyone telling us He is difficult to understand. That is a lie. He reveals Himself to those who have hungry hearts. "Professing themselves to be wise they have become fools." Roman's 1:22. And 1Cor 25-29. Read it.

[@D-777i]

There is so much to deal with and struggle with in the Bible and Christianity, it's such a hard path and I keep wandering astray, but somehow I always find it again.

[@Havre_Chithra]

What makes it a difficult path for you? Honest and genuine question coming from a true believer in Jesus Christ (something I decided on my own since I was not raised in any Faith). My favorite philosopher is still Nietzsche FYI.

[@JonathonBowman-b7r]

@@Havre_Chithra That's fascinating, can you explain your journey if you don't mind?

[@Havre_Chithra]

@JonathonBowman-b7r only child of a single mother who was never around and worked all the time... I struggled in every area of life and didn't know why.... even when I felt or was told I did well, I knew I was still doing something wrong. I felt like an imposter.... Even I'm school, I could do all the right things and get good grades but felt like I was just tricking everyone... I didn't really know or understand what I was doing... I just knew how to do it well.... This was psychologically devastating over the years... I felt like an alien.... I studied psychology and philosophy to try and figure it all out... I wanted to know what the fuck I was missing or getting wrong... Fast forward nearly 15 years.... I found it... the keystone to everything.... The Bible... it represents the core values upon which our language game is based... The principles of basic mathematics and physics can be derived from it. Once I decided to try and understand and take on the beliefs of the Bible and be affected by it in the same why I was Nietzsche.... Woooww.... I never really read the Bible before Nietzsche... never bothered.... But once I got baptized and started going to church and studying the Bible... Nietzsche and his life was no longer tragic in my view, but a comedy. I mean, the Christian project is the project of trying to create something beyond man (superhuman) like Christ (Christ-like)....

[@D-777i]

@@Havre_Chithra To nutshell it, I would say it's just difficult to fully believe, I seem unable to go all in on it because of so many doubts.

[@Havre_Chithra]

@D-777i That's understandable. A lot of my doubts were erased once I really learned about The Bible.

[@cbasallie]

You struggle because you lack a child’s heart. Humble yourself soon because as we age, our sight often gets dimmer

[@peterhamlet1415]

After a lifetime of comprising faith and truth. Its no wonder people get confused.

[@janker1676]

This is a very relatable clip

[@scholarforpeace]

On the contrary, Jesus is easy to understand. "Don't do what the Pharisees do" means do not show off you are religious, while in your heart you don't really believe. This is to those who have a hard heart and those who think they know the truth so very well that nothing will change their beliefs, even if they were sent a messenger from God to tell them otherwise. This is what Jesus meant, because he was a messenger sent from God.

[@SunderBlue22]

you follow jesus by learning his teachings, learning the word and living it out…

[@Charlie-Em]

True! It's hard to understand why Jesus was in a cemetery at 2 am with a naked boy.

[@richardtallach7104]

From Archibald Alexander's "Christian Evidences" The style of the evangelists has often been adduced as an evidence of their inspiration. Not that they write with an elegance and sublimity which cannot be imitated; but because they write as persons divested of the feelings which commonly belong to men. They write with an unaffected simplicity, and with an impartial, dispassionate regard to truth, that has no parallel, and has never been successfully initiated. How could illiterate men produce such works as the Gospels, without inspiration? Select a thousand sensible men, but unaccustomed to composition, and set them to write a simple history of the most remarkable transactions with which they have been conversant, and there will not be in any one of them, an approximation to the characteristic manner of the evangelists. Others, and men possessed of more learning than the apostles, have undertaken, without inspiration, to write Gospels, as if composed by some one or other of these holy men; but you cannot place the evidence of the inspiration of the genuine Gospels, in a stronger light, than by contrasting them with any, or all the apocryphal writings, under the names of the apostles.

[@codyshepp7432]

In regards to Matthew 23:2 Jesus is absolutely not telling anyone to listen to the scribes and pharisees. The entire chapter of Matt 23 Jesus is denouncing the scribes and the pharisees on the highest level. Where does Jesus say to listen to them? They killed him for what he was saying. Religion killed Christ...

[@cbasallie]

Yes and Christ also said we should come to Him as children….certainly he NEVER said that he came for Bible scholars. Never….Children hear his story and instantly love Him and they love the Creator.

[@PeeGee85]

9:02: "You can't pin him down" had me laughing. An unfortunate choice of words xD.

[@shotinthedark90]

Fortunate, actually, because he rises even when it looks like he's been pinned.

[@sandylewis5905]

I think CS Lewis said "He's not a tame lion." I guess it is a similar thought.

[@richardtallach7104]

But there is something which exhibits the true character of the writers, in a light still stronger. It is the manner in which they speak of themselves. Few men can write much concerning themselves, without betraying the strength of self-love. Weak men, when they get on this topic, are commonly disgusting: and even when persons seem willing to let the truth be known, there is usually an effort discoverable, to seek compensation, in something, for every sacrifice which they make of reputation. But we may challenge any one to designate any instance, in which the least indication of this moral weakness has been given by the evangelists? They speak of themselves, and their companions, with the same candor, which characterizes their narrative in regard to others. They describe, in the most artless manner, the lowness of their origin, the meanness of their occupation, the grossness of their ignorance, the inveteracy of their prejudices, their childish contentions for superiority, their cowardice in 105the hour of danger, and the fatal apostacy of one, and temporary delinquency of another of their number. If any person supposes that it is an easy thing to write as the evangelists have done, he must have attended very little to the subject. The fact is, it cannot be imitated now, when the model is fully before us. That these unlearned men should be able to write books at all, with propriety, is a wonderful thing. Few fishermen, or mechanics, confined all their lives to laborious occupations, and untutored in the art of composition, could produce, without committing great faults, a narrative of their own lives. But that men of such an education should possess such self-command and self-denial, as is manifest in these compositions, cannot be easily accounted for, on common principles.

[@danielcoen3483]

The part of Jesus is the vicar of Christ thats sitting in His seat.

[@DanielWilderman]

Never confuse knowing Christ and or having a working knowledge of the Bible with understanding layers of religious tradition and or “authoritative” statements of religious leaders and or subsets of “Christians” who are fixated on a handful of dubious conclusions based on their history. Few modern Christians in the western world would be happy to find themselves in Middle Ages church belief and/or practice.

[@luobaide]

Mr. Jonathan, with all due respect, it seems you have a somewhat distorted view of the history of St. Francis of Assisi and the long tradition of Franciscan mysticism, in which unknowing, doubt, and wonder are essential elements. Allow me to kindly remind you that, in his final days full of physical and spiritual suffering and shortly before receiving the stigmata, St. Francis spent a considerable amount of time on Mount Alvernia, where he repeatedly asked, 'Who are you, O God, and who am I?'

[@richardtallach7104]

There is only, one other thing, in the style of the apostles, which I wish to bring into view. In all the detailed narratives which they have given of Jesus Christ, no allusion is ever made to his personal appearance. We are as much unacquainted with his stature, his aspect, his complexion, and his gait and manner, as if the Gospels had never been written. There is profound wisdom in this silence: yet I doubt whether any writers, following merely the impulse of their own feelings, would have avoided every allusion to tilts subject.

[@jonathanlr4167]

As long as we understand that Jesus is Lord and God raised him from the dead - we will be saved. ( Romans 10:9) . That's the main thing. And it's really simple!

[@danielcoen3483]

The Gospels are historical, they are plain. He is much more prominent than an Icon and you follow Him as He said you should

[@Bisotun]

Reassuring to hear.

[@rossm2868]

Thata true; true beauty is like a sign of Whats to come

[@aga1nstall0dds]

Jesus is king of kings

[@sparky5994]

Truth.

[@titioDApipoca]

Gentlemen, excelent cut. Could someone tell what icon is this in the thumbnale ? TY very much. May Christ have mercy on us.

[@IndyDefense]

For a split second, I thought Byrne Power had dyed his hair lol

[@Shawncronicity]

The point, and I'm just going off memory here but I can research and come back later, is that even Moses missed the mark and needed help. So, like Moses, the Pharisees need help. Not to be killed/removed/replaced just because you don't like their doctrine

[@DivineAlchemyOfSouls]

I need not watch to tell you Christ was the Son of God; and now I am.

[@danielcoen3483]

He says that the Word of God doesn't give him what he is hungry for, at least not like shakespeare.

[@jovanhranisavljevic6111]

Like every story of Christ there are many layers, in practice the number of swords is actually the budget that will be used for defense. The Eastern Roman Empire used that advice successfully for hundreds of years, with a lot of diplomacy going on, before and after the conflict. So they succeeded a lot with smaller units.

[@MagicEraserInk]

What a strange coincidence, a fly buzzed and flew across the camera at 4:20. 'Reading the Bible is like having a bath.'

[@bluequirk5384]

If you love Jesus and the stories of Jesus then please read The Poem Of The Man God relayed to us by Maria Valtorta .

[@gitarren-froschde9433]

no.

[@richardtallach7104]

IV. There are no signs of fraud or imposture to be discovered in the record itself. There is, on the contrary, every indication of truth, honesty, and good intention, in the writers. Although they differ from each other in style and manner, so much, that it is evident, that the same person did not compose the four Gospels; yet there is a character of style which belongs to the whole of them, and which is without a parallel among any writers but the penmen of the Sacred Scriptures. It is an apparent exemption from the passions and frailties of human nature. The most stupendous miracles, are related without one exclamation of wonder from the historian: and without the least appearance of a desire to excite the wonder of the reader. The character of Christ is drawn in no other way, than by simply telling what he did and said. There is no portraying of character in the way of general description, or by using strong epithets to set him forth. There is, perhaps, no such thing, in the Gospels, as an expression of admiration of any discourse or action, by the evangelists. 104If they relate such things, they are the words of others, which they faithfully set down. When they describe the sufferings of Christ, they never fall, as men usually do, into pathetic declamation. They are never carried away from their simple course by the power of sympathy. The facts are related, as though the writer felt nothing, but the strong purpose of declaring the truth, without giving any color whatever to the facts. Neither do they indulge themselves in those vehement expressions of indignation against the enemies of Christ, which we should naturally have expected. They never give utterance to a harsh expression against any one. They relate the treachery of Judas with the same unaffected simplicity, as if they had no feelings relative to his base conduct.

[@danielcoen3483]

If you ask Christ for Salvation and He gives you intolerable exposure. What does that sentence mean?

[@CSUnger]

Can’t think of a more useful expenditure of intellectual time than these kinds of wrestlings.

[@1234swingit]

Jesus is usually good to very good to understand. And that which is seemingly incomprehensible or even mysterious ... can be endured until the Holy Spirit reveals it to you. Understanding everything immediately would not be a quality criterion for Jesus. If the truth were generally easy to understand, more people would know, understand and live it.

[@rossm2868]

Good show boyzz , ita because Christ calls man to submit hai ways to the most high

[@kataiwannhn]

Try reading the Gospel of John as an expression of the Ten Commandments. In my opinion, you can understand it better with this method than by comparing Jesus Christ with other people. In the beginning was the Logos [] and the Logos became flesh. Maybe that's where the constant low level humiliation thing comes from.

[@SlimStew1]

9:17-9:27 Amen!!

[@danielcoen3483]

Could this also be the Orthodox and the Vicar of Christ??

[@RonaldRumRaisin]

Matthew 14:52 how do you explain this?

[@testsignupagain7449]

There is nothing except me. Nothing.

[@davidhaight5594]

Agreed. Christ is terrifying in some respect.

[@ready1fire1aim1]

Hoshea Son of Nun > Yehoshu'a Son of Nun

[@donalfoley2412]

Saint Francis was pretty good at telling people off too, I think, but I know what you mean.

[@anthonyhulse1248]

You need to read the writings of St. Francis.

[@thecatholicman]

Read Maria Valtorta.

[@Havre_Chithra]

How can be be a real Christian and claim to have never felt "Christ-like"? That's literally the point of being a Christian, to be baptized, accept the soul of Jesus and let him guide all of your decisions moving forward... in other words... the whole point is to be LIKE Christ... Ask yourself... What would Jesus do and then however you feel after that... is just like how Christ would feel if you were Him in that very moment... These boomer-Christians are duller than death's doorknob.

[@CSUnger]

I struggle to find the concept of our feelings being any sort of a guide to Christlikeness in the Scriptures. In fact, just the opposite, I’d say.

[@__cooper__]

Actually that's not what you want to do potentially - some studies seem to point towards at least on brain scans, that when people consider what their deity thinks about something vs what others think, it lights up the areas used when considering what the *individual* thinks, not the area used when considering other's perspectives. This also has been pushed further, showing that by changing the individual's knowledge of things, they can change the claimed view of god's outlook on topics in those individuals. Correlation isn't causation, and it was a very small study however. Just something to keep in mind and be wary of. Might be it's just if one is truly truly "one" with how Christ feels, that's normal, but I'd hazard it is also the same in other religions, but more data would be needed to study further and rule that in/out to see if it is specific to one religion or not.

[@Havre_Chithra]

@CSUnger Then why did he say "I've never in my life FELT Christ-like" if feelings are supposed to be out of the equation?

[@Havre_Chithra]

@__cooper__ Wow! So much to think about. Thank you for this. I'm going to spend some time pondering your comment. Cheers 🍻

[@__cooper__]

@@Havre_Chithra found the study! Was from 2009 titled "Believers' estimates of God's beliefs are more egocentric than estimates of other people's beliefs" - but again, very small sample size (n=900 I think on largest study), and I'm no expert on testing/accounting for other variables, and I'm *sure* there are more things to consider (because this was just largely Christians). Would love to see if there's been any new data since, so may be time for a deep dive on my end! Also as said before, it isn't pure evidence of what is or isn't going on - just an interesting phenomenon that may mean nothing, but certainly piques my curiosity from my broader studies into cogntion and religion. It seems to stem from not having much information about an individual's views on things, topics, in this quote relating to the manipulation of how the individual thinks others view things by only changing the individual's views: "Although the egocentric correlation was significantly weaker for Gates than for God, estimates of Gates' attitudes, a relatively liked target with unknown beliefs, were also significantly influenced by the arguments condition" - meaning they compared it against people known of but not known well as an individual (Bill Gates), known well (as in details about their views) in the form of bush, and then God. Meaning the less someone knows about an individual, the more egocentric they pull from for information about how that person would consider something, a situation or think about topics, actions and so on. Makes me wonder if then, say a priest or similar "learned" devotee would be less egocentric than common believers when considering things or not.

[@raenoldparkin]

So why did he say listen to the Pharisees and bring a sword? Orthodox hermeneutics please.

[@OmarDenison]

May God's peace rest upon Jesus, obedient and humble servant of Almighty God.

[@Wstydzie]

An old lady, all covered in flies, goes to a doctor. The doctor asks "what brings you here?" ans she answers "I've been forced"

[@aussierob7177]

On the contrary, Jesus is easy to understand. The Trinity is much harder to understand than Jesus.

[@sczoot6285]

That's true, and that is because the trinity is an interpretation of man, not from God

[@danielcoen3483]

If this Is gnostic I wouldn't be suprised

[@inthenameoftheson]

Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!

[@peterroberts4509]

Then why did he bother?

[@liewcheng3111]

Dressed up for action

[@irodjetson]

I don't know which modernist notion of Saint Francis of Assisi you have in your mind, but it makes me cringe everytime you speak of a Saint that used to walk in penance, and suffer everyday for not being with Christ, yet find comfort in his creation and in him and the Church authorities and mainly in Christ in the eucharist

[@panamajack5972]

It's an anti-catholic thing

[@marley2020]

I don't understand. Aren't you Orthodox? Why are you not reading what the Father's said on it? Isn't that where you should go first? It's all there.