Jihad: The Origin of Holy War in Islam | Reuven Firestone PhD

Jihad: The Origin of Holy War in Islam | Reuven Firestone PhD
While there exists no evidence to date that the indigenous inhabitants of Arabia knew of holy war prior to Islam, holy war ideas and behaviors appear already among Muslims during the first generation. This book focuses on why and how such a seemingly radical development took place. Basing his hypothesis on evidence from the Qur'an and early Islamic literary sources, Firestone locates the origin of Islamic holy war and traces its evolution as a response to the changes affecting the new community of Muslims in its transition from ancient Arabian culture to the religious civilization of Islam.
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#Jihad #Islam #MythVision

[@talsingh451]

watch nabi asli on youtube to learn the life of muhammed and how the verses came to

[@abcvzz]

this guy Reuven Firestone is incredibly honest man ,hello from Bosnia Mr. Reuven!

[@bayreuth79]

There is no such thing as "holy" war in Islam: war is not considered to be 'holy' under any circumstances. While it is true that Islam requires relentless military action against non-believing peoples that does not mean that it is 'holy'. One might describe it as a necessary evil. My source for this is T J Winter (Cambridge University)

[@omar1187]

look up the hebrew word that proved that the quran is from god on youtube

[@pulsarstargrave256]

I can look forward to your presenting the Muslim, scholarly observations of the Jewish, Christian and secular perspectives? Because so far, I've heard nothing of the sort from MythVision, only criticism of Islam, while with the other two, you HAVE presented neutral or "apologist" responses, which reflects bias, not neutrality on the part of MythVision. I recommend Yasmin Mogahed, Dr. Ali Ataie and Dr.Shabir Ally just to start. Personally, I almost burst out laughing when he said he was a Jewish rabbi so he could look at the Quran neutrally! That's like a Hatfield judging a McCoy! Still later, he said there was no "Holy War" concept in Judaism.Well, that specific term may not be used but what I noticed while attempting to read The Psalms to an ailing Christian relative is that many of the psalms are about "The Lord Our God" dealing with the enemies of Israel! More notoriously, how often has the invasion of "The Promised Land" been seen as a worthy adventure by Jews, Christians and perhaps Muslims? The land, which already had people living there, was "promised"....for reasons! Unfortunately, humans have too often used religion as justification for human aggression; even if their Holy book of choice argues for restraint; some followers will interpret it sideways at best, or at the worst, create a book of "ammendments"! Having said this, I renew my request for "equal time" from a pro Islamic Muslim scholar

[@angryatheist]

If you find an honest one I’m sure he’d have him or her on , the issue with Muslim scholars is they’re always trying to compare Islam to a straw man check out the debate Aron ra debate with some Muslim liar about secular morality v Islam morality. Apparently only Islam is a religion everyone else is an atheist oh but atheism is a religion and colonialism is why Iran is killing its own citizens

[@pulsarstargrave256]

@@angryatheist Sorry, I'm not interested in childish arguments or accusations related to this topic.

[@angryatheist]

@@pulsarstargrave256 whatever but that’s why there’s no Muslim scholarship here , cause we don’t need ppl coming to lie or push their beliefs you got Muslim channels for that

[@laylaali5977]

Jihad is not holy war it’s arm struggle to defend one’s self or defend defenseless

[@whoahna8438]

God telling the Israelites to steal the land from the Canaanites was a Holy War

[@jamescareyyatesIII]

Didn't the fabled Israelites invent Holy War? In fact, that's about all the Torah talks about.

[@nazmul_khan_]

but you can't talk about the crimes of the chosen ones because they get a pass at every indiscretion

[@afzaldogar2452]

Thanks for this illuminating discussion. Keep up with your great work. Stay blessed

[@donwolff6463]

Have you ever had Dr Justin Sledge from Esoterica on your show? If not, please consider. He's very knowledgeable about subjects concerning the practices and beliefs of the esoteric, occult, alchemical, and magical in antiquity.

[@jojones4685]

He has had him on!

[@donwolff6463]

@@jojones4685 excellent..thanks..now I gotta go scrolling back. 🙄🤪

[@SuperAmir2011]

I don’t know why you don’t just have Muslim scholar on - like every Muslim knows how Alcohol was banned. God introduced the banning of alcohol slowly to the Meccan society so it doesn’t discourage them to leave Islam and a lot of Laws came like that. The idea was that when they build a relationship with god then it will be easier for them to accept it.

[@chrisalivio1]

Jihad is necesarily used in the context of war, it's also used to describe one's struggle and submission in the name of Islam

[@JCResDoc94]

45:00 dont drink and pray. have a designated prayer. _JC

[@danielgallagher3333]

The state should've taken me away from my parents for them saying be a lover less priest at age twelve

[@laser7861]

I think the example of alcohol was not a good choice for your question. Nowhere does the Quran say that alcohol is not that bad. I think he might have confused the verse "there is some benefits in it, but its evil is bigger than its benefits". It basically goes from "it's bad" to "it's prohibited" in 3 stages.

[@randomcommentator6335]

There are no 3 stages, alcohol IS bad and harmful, alcohol SHOULD be avoided at all costs, and if you choose to sin and drink until you're drunk then salat (prayer) becomes haram for you, you wouldn't be allowed to even pray until you're sober again

[@Vampy_Rhombus5006]

50:00 ill pick this up later alright done

[@simonlawrence5740]

The penalty for weponizing the creator is nuclear .

[@CAPSLOCKPUNDIT]

You must have heard a more primitive version of The Rooster And The Wise Man. At the end of the subsequent and more authentic version, the king returned to find no one beneath the table. His son was soon found in the henhouse, fertilizing the eggs. The advisor went on to become a champion cockfighter. I love happy endings!

[@danielschaeffer1294]

Every Muslim prays daily “Lead us upon the straight path, unlike those whom God hates and those who have lost their way.” This sounds very pleasant until you realize that the Arabic word for “the straight path” is “sharia,” those whom God hates are the Jews, and those who have lost their way are the Christians. In 9:5 he orders his followers on a course of ceaseless war. Faisal Abdul Rauf, the Ground Zero Mosque guy, wrote a book claiming that “sharia” in effect meant something like “natural law,” and that nature itself was therefore sharia-compliant. I’m sure Richard Dawkins was pleased to learn that his very existence is sharia-compliant. It is in vain for modern moderate Muslims like Maajid Nawaz and Reza Aslan to insist that “jihad” merely means “struggle.” There are many kinds of “jihad,” but the goal of all of them is world domination.

[@BenM61]

I am Muslim and I don’t share you views. Here are the verses in question: 1:1 In the Name of Allah-the Most Compassionate, Most Merciful. 1:2 All praise is for Allah-Lord of all worlds, 1:3 the Most Compassionate, Most Merciful, 1:4 Master of the Day of Judgment. 1:5 You ˹alone˺ we worship and You ˹alone˺ we ask for help. 1:6 Guide us along the Straight Path, 1:7 the Path of those You have blessed-not those You are displeased with, or those who are astray. As you can read the word ‘hate’ is not used at all. I speak Arabic and ‘straight path’ does not mean sharia at all. Could you show us your twisted dictionary so we can verify your claim. Also where do you see Jews or Christians in those verses. If you claim some Muslims interpret that those whom God is displeased with are the Jews and those who lost their way are the Christians that’s their interpretation. I don’t agree with that interpretation. There are Jews who are men and women of God as there are also Christians who do what is pleasing to God. Lumping people together and generalizing is just wrong. 2:62 Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they. Quran 2:62 Those who believe (in the Qur'an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians and the Christians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness,- on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. Quran 5:69 I think that’s fair. Don’t you hater? How about this: 3:113 Yet they[The jews]are not all alike: there are some among the People of the Book who are upright, who recite Allah’s revelations throughout the night, prostrating ˹in prayer˺. 3:114 They believe in Allah and the Last Day, encourage good and forbid evil, and race with one another in doing good. They are ˹truly˺ among the righteous. 3:115 They will never be denied the reward for any good they have done. And Allah has ˹perfect˺ knowledge of those mindful ˹of Him˺.

[@danielschaeffer1294]

@@BenM61 As for “sharia” that translation is from John Esposito, a noted authority, and defender of Islam. So don’t blame me. As regards other points: it’s been years since I’ve studied the Koran, so I can’t quote verse numbers, but the book is replete with quotes explaining how the Christians have lost their way. There is a verse that is repeated numerous times - “God hates the Jews because they murdered their prophets.” And there is even the notorious Hadith - supposedly authoritative because it’s found in Bukhari - that ends the Hamas charter and says that “before the final day the Muslims will kill the Jews.” I’ll grant that the Muslim sources are HUGE and often ambiguous; you as a Muslim are free to pick from them and interpret them as you please. But I as an infidel have every right to say that this is a tradition that I can not in conscience follow.

[@BenM61]

@@danielschaeffer1294 could you quote the verse where it said ‘God hates the Jews because they killed their prophets.’ That’s news to me. God never used the term ‘God hates the Jews’ anywhere in the Quran. I dare you to produce the text. Enough of this garbage you spew. Show me the verses from the Quran. I am not interested in your twisted opinions. And it would be nice if you can quote John Esposito directly. Let’s see it.

[@danielschaeffer1294]

Sorry, God didn’t write the Koran. They’re the words of Mohammed. And my local library had SEVERAL copies, in different translations, which were subsequently stolen. But yes, it does say that the Jews murdered their prophets. I remember this distinctly because it hit me in the head like a brick. Maybe you didn’t notice that verse but I sure did. It’s obviously not true. If the Jews had murdered their prophets why keep their scrolls so carefully? And as long as you continue to insult me and hector me like this I see no reason to respond. You’ll notice that I DID GIVE YOU AN OUT, saying that you were free to interpret your texts for yourself, but since you chose to try to pick a quarrel, I’m not playing.

[@BenM61]

@@danielschaeffer1294 You don’t like it because I called you out on your lies and disinformation. All I asked you to do was to prove your claims and the Quran is a revelation from God whether you like or not. Also God in the Quran chastises the Jews for killing their prophets. What’s the problem with that? Jesus also rebuked the Jews for killing their prophets. The Hebrew Bible attested to the fact the Jews killed their prophets. Are you saying it is okay to kill the prophets? I don’t get it.

[@angelasmr8818]

The religion of peace ☮️ ✌️

[@BenM61]

Derek talks out of both sides of his mouth. On one hand he claims he would bring academics to shed light on whatever subject he has in mind and on the other he brings people who have no expertise on the subject. He claims he wants to educate people but all he does is dumbing them down with his pedantic and wrong views and I am talking here about Islam. I had subscribed to his podcast but I had to unsubscribe because of his attitudes and the guests he had brought about Islam. I don’t mind listening to great guests who would challenge my assumptions and tickle my mind so to speak but to resort to bringing in Robert spencer for instance a known islamophobe is beyond common sense. All it shows is Derek is willing to spread falsehood and disinformation in order to achieve his purpose of discrediting religion by any means necessary. People here are very ignorant about islam, just read the comment section. And Derek is feeding them more of the same. To really debunk something you have to do it in a smart way by knowing everything about it. Then try to attack its weaknesses and show the reason why people should abandon their views. But you can’t do that if everything coming out of your mouth is wrong and stupid. How can any decent person take you seriously. Not a chance.

[@DrJavadTHashmi]

Well. He has invited me to speak tomorrow.

[@sumaid2268]

Are you a muslim ?

[@DrJavadTHashmi]

@@sumaid2268 Yes.

[@superhydra8873]

@@inquisitivemind007 lol, prof Ali ataie schooled you and the con game you’re playing

[@inquisitivemind007]

@Super Hydra strange that Ali Ataie didn't show up in the comments section of the Shoemaker interview - I was waiting for him to school me as you say.

[@fajartiyarabdulmajid7807]

About law of war to exterminate every infidel was beeing Abrogation in this Hadith : Rasulullah SAW said, "Really I have been given a choice by my Lord. Live long until the end of the world, by becoming the king of the world, and I will still go to heaven. With me dying now, and being free from duty and going to heaven. So I choose now,". it's postponed until Al masih Isa IBN Maryam descended : The Prophets were brothers from the same father, while their mothers were different and their religion was one. I am the closest human being to 'Al Masih Isa ibn Maryam', because there is no more Prophet between him and me. And he will come down (back). If you see him, then you will recognize that he is a man of medium height, reddish-white skin, he is wearing two slightly reddish clothes, as if water is dripping on his head even though it is not wet. He will break crosses, kill pigs and abolish jizyah and call people to Islam. In his time, Allah will destroy all religions except Islam. And Allah will kill Al Masih ad-Dajjal. Then there was security on earth, so that lions and camels looked for food (in the same place) and (so did) tigers and cows, also wolves and goats, and small children played with snakes without harming them. He lived for forty years, then died and the Muslims prayed for him." We Muslim don't need recognition by Jews and Christianity because we already proven as the right relligion by humiliated them by conquering their holly city...we broken Jews myth as the chosen one by build mosque in temple mount and force them to pay jizyah for hundred years to prove GOD covenant into us..and to Christianity..we defeated them in crusader and taking back Jerusalem and also conquering their capital Constantinople and making Hagia Sofia as our mosque to prove that they worship antichrist an false GOD which weak..and for 1400 years we challenge them to seized our holy city Makkah...but untill today ..not even Jews and Christianity dare to get their foot in Makkah...not even them can enter Makkah until today to humiliated them.. we already fulfilling our prophecied and just waiting for Al masih ad Dajjal to come for the final battle..we believe that our future generation are the people who accompany Al masih Isa IBN Maryam' the real messiah

[@adult456zig]

How will you tell the difference between Isa/Jesus and Dajjal/Antichrist?

[@fajartiyarabdulmajid7807]

@@adult456zig only messiah that's proclaim that's he is a god would be false

[@nikko5709]

So delusional it's more sad than funny, when it's US army that défends Saudi Arabia and mecca, not Muslims.

[@thenun1846]

This is a really cute fiction. Thanks for sharing

[@danielschaeffer1294]

Sorry, but you’re wasting your time posting all this. Even amateurs like me know 1) that the goal of Islam is NOT to exterminate the infidels but to offer them conversion, SUBJUGATION or death, as per 9:5; 2) that the Hadith are not considered infallible even by Muslims; 3) that we infidels are under no obligation to consider the Koran dictation from God: on the contrary, it has so many contradictions, and verses that are morally repugnant, that it cannot be “a perfect book” any more than a circle can be square. They are the words of Mohammed, nothing more.