Tested: Where Does The Sustain Come From In An Electric Guitar?

[@JamesVanderVeen]

This was a good video on sustain. It could have been longer though.

[@Sean_Plays_Guitar]

you cheeky bahstahd lol!

[@MidlifeRenaissanceMan]

Yes. Don’t want to dampen the enthusiasm

[@KeizerSinbad]

🙈

[@jonnysophisticado]

Hah, or should I say, haaaaaaaaaaasaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.........

[@misterknightowlandco]

Bwaahahahahahahhaa good one!

[@MetalMan1245]

This guy's dry humor combined with total willingness to shatter most guitar players' concensuses without even saying a word about it is amazing.

[@JoshGab-cw3zn]

This video triggers the tonewood boomers in the comments lol!

[@Fausto_4841]

i like that he doesn't outwardly put his interpretation of the data into the video. music is so subjective it's hard to say what is better in a lot of situations.

[@jafersorianocamargo6723]

I think the point is that they're not even consensus, right there they're done that think that light finish is better and others that say the exact opposite... Lighter gauges and actions are more determinative in conjunction with good left hands technique but maybe aside the "it's in the fingers" crowd, nobody cares so passionately about gauge and action... We all do, because we need them to pay comfortably, but nobody is so passionate about it as the flight between a vintage SG or the latest fluence...

[@paulcrowder]

“…so I did that” 😂 I agree, the humor is as important as the information in these videos.

[@SashaGarcia]

This is like "Mythbusters" for guitar, and I am loving it.

[@JC-11111]

No it isn't 🤣 this dude doesn't even know the basics about guitars. He ain't in ANY position to be tryi g to teach or prove anything to anyone until he learns quite a bit more. He doesn't even know basic information that I knew before I even owned a guitar.

[@foxredt2]

@@JC-11111 troll

[@TheEchelon]

@@foxredt2 Nope, it's a good effort but his doesn't aren't really accurate nor representative.

[@richsackett3423]

This video is crap which only vaguely resembles science. His over-earnest chip-on-the-shoulder attitude ain't making up for its serious shortcomings.

[@iforce2d]

@@richsackett3423 what are the shortcomings, exactly?

[@JustinSmith1287]

"... so I did that" had me rolling. WOW DUDE. The commitment to these tests are just insane.

[@victorb656]

My favorite moments. “That means 3,837 different setups. So I did that.”

[@brianframe7949]

As a builder and repair person, i rate this guy as a national hero.

[@stevesoldwedel]

It's really a pleasure to see an empirical approach to what so many people treat like magic.

[@jralanmorgan]

I love your phrasing.

[@chnacr2]

If not for the Internet and awesome KZbinrs like Jim, guitar manufacturers would be selling Tone Air in cans by now

[@slowestjabroni]

Gearslutz is in shambles right now.

[@disco4535]

Its hilarious seeing comments like these that act like this video "empirically" proves/disproves anything significant. World renowned players that have created worthwhile, unique musical art throughout human history believe things about their guitars and music that you might call think they treat as "magic", that's only because our primitive science can't explain it, or does a comically insufficient job of trying.

[@Centrifuge28]

@@disco4535 you're right, that's why we need to only buy $5,000 guitars so that we can have T O A N maybe things like the type of wood or the way the neck is attached to the body make a difference in music, but an artist can make art with anything. that's what the comment you replied to is saying. the artist makes it sound good, not the density of the finish or how much money you dropped on your new guitar. also, it's helping people not get sucked into the thought process of "i need to buy this ridiculously expensive piece of wood with magnets and strings to be as good as my heroes"... and as someone who has built their own guitar, i can tell you that many people actually do believe it is magic...

[@gavinjones3637]

"So I did that!" Hats off for thoroughness and commitment. Love these videos.

[@PS-fg3hp]

Yeah, almost spit my coffee on my screen!

[@joevannucci1392]

@@PS-fg3hp Same here!

[@kcutoob]

Hah! I also was waiting for the "So, I had to find a plan B". Man, this guy is dedicated. And while it appears he's not a technical guy ("never took a stats class"), these experiments are quite well conceived and implemented, which is not as easy as many would think. I especially liked the wooden dowel saddle - that eliminated any nuances of different alloys in one fell swoop. Well done!

[@JoelKreider]

This is the point that got my like… Never did I think that would be the next statement.

[@blueleaftuber]

what a Chad

[@tanglewife]

Seems like a lot of these myths about tone and sustain relate to acoustic guitar, but don't really carry over to electric in reality, yet have been perpetuated for decades in the musical community. Brilliant, enlightening video, as always!

[@errollloyd6721]

Yes ... this is it ... electrical guitarists have yet to truly embrace the electrical nature of their instrument, even going so far as applying acoustic thinking to electrical components in thinking larger components (eg capacitors) are better than modern smaller ones etc. It's a little sad I think because I think it has kept the industry back and made us all more beholden to the guitar manufacturers as the culture helps perpetuate an illusory magic in any one guitar when really it's mostly about pickups and whether the guitar feels good in your own hands. It should be more normal to get a guitar based just on build quality, shape and neck profile and to then install whatever pickups you like, and, even better, have common guitar designs that allow you to easily change the pickups.

[@williambartholomew5680]

​@@errollloyd6721 perfect realization of how one product for life (guitar in this instance) results in the manufacturer not making additional sales off buyers. The only way to ensure sales is to either A "improve upon inferiority" or B offer an "alternative" features list or whole product. Ironically guitarists be big suckers to the corporate man they supposedly despise 😅

[@nef36]

@@williambartholomew5680 Guitar culture could be a bit more open to the idea of owning, say, a bass, baritone, standard, and a ukelele, or putting value on the cosmetic look of a guitar (we already do that) above what the acoustic qualities of the instrument are, but the first thing requires learning, which is why guitarists don't like the idea of picking up a bass (and vice versa) and the second thing is rooted in hundreds of years of culture and things that are true of acoustics. On the other hand, upgrading your guitar for better pickups is something we already do, so there's that.

[@Carlito_Sway]

this is a HUGE part of the source of even well-intentioned guitar industry BS!!! I think there is a lot of conflation of "sound" with "player experience", too. We might perceive that a guitar "resonates" more based on its vibrational characteristics, while in fact there's no audibly perceptible difference to a listener. That doesn't mean we should disregard player experience as an important factor influencing design characteristics- something like neck radius might not influence the sound but it sure feels different to a player! But, it is important to disambiguate the two if we're trying to understand the mechanisms of electric guitar sound generation and reproduction in a scientific way.

[@adamb2484]

That's the thing! Most, if not all, guitar myths DO apply to an acoustic. Yet next to none have any bearing on an electric, becoming pseudoscience in the process.

[@SirSneakerPimp]

The fact that you put yourself through all of these tests is insane.

[@chocolatecookie8571]

He sacrified himself in the name of guitar science 😂

[@muratsanda7246]

@@chocolatecookie8571 😁

[@Michael-yt1jp]

The fact that 69 percent of guitar players who watch this and will still choose believe in magic sustain and mystical diodes is insane.

[@hansmemling2311]

@Michael-yt1jp indeed. I unfortunately people are religious about most of the things they do. Science has transformed our society completely but religiousness remains.

[@ralph0808z]

I'm convinced. I'll never soak my guitar in glue again. Kudos to Jim Lill and his "Tested" video series for creating the most interesting guitar content on KZbin.

[@keegancurry2593]

The combination of these 2 videos really makes me think that practically the only things that truly matter to a great sounding guitar are a good pickup and a good setup. And a great player of course!

[@liamphillips3061]

Speakers as well, They all do put a unique twist on your sound. Glenn at SMG did a great video about it called what matters most about guitar tone. I really love seeing people get to the bottom of what matters in regards to tone and well made guitars , There is way too much made up stuff floating around.

[@Fedbo]

the thing is, a cheap and not very well constructed guitar (bad mechanics, poor maintenance of the tuning, bad ergonomics (neck not well finished, frets coming out) might sound great with a set up and some expensive pickups, but if it doesn't hold the tuning well and doesn't feel great to play than it's not fullfilling its purpouse.

[@latheofheaven1017]

@@Fedbo Indeed. More expensive guitars do some things better. But this video shows that better sustain isn't necessarily one of them.

[@stupidjubei]

Changing amp/speakers has long been the most drastic tonal quality changer. I've long believed a cheap (yet adequately built) guitar with a good setup and a decent pup into a nice rig will get you much further than a $3000 dollar custom guitar into a cheap practice amp. There are good practice amps these days, but comparatively speaking.

[@Pantalooj]

The science seems fairly clear relating to tone. I'm not discounting the other factors that affect the player though ... neck shape and feel, fret size, tuning stability (set up is part of that but not the only thing), body ergonomics ... and aesthetics. I certainly wouldn't discount all of those things when selecting a guitar.

[@andrew6889-p5c]

This series could be used in schools as an applied science class. So freakin’ clear and thorough. And zero time wasted.

[@michaelvarney.]

He would flunk out of an applied science class considering that he does not seem to understand how to properly measure resonance, or at least decay constants, and thinks that ‘only a couple of dB’ is best thought of in a linear manner.

[@timoheinrich8763]

There is truth in what Michael says. Jim does not know how to analyze data and it shows. He's honest about it and that's good but it would have been better if he had reached out to someone to help him analyze it. (Even better: He would have also reached out for help with the data collection.)

[@TheEchelon]

@Pettynyt Ruokailija And the electronics pick up the vibrations of the string, which are influenced by the guitar... You think a guitar with a rubber nut would sound the same or have the same sustain?

[@wareya]

@@michaelvarney. A drop in decibels over a particular fixed amount of time is just as valid a way of measuring decay as half-life.

[@michaelvarney.]

@@wareya No, it is not. No one measures resonance in such a manner. Say at time t = 0 you measure 100 dB, then at time 10 seconds you measure 60 dB. What is the decay of the signal? What is it's half life? You can't tell. What you need to do is sample the signal amplitude at a high resolution between 0 and 10 seconds, and fit the resulting plot and that gives you the decay you are looking for. For his signal, he needs to take his waveform and create an envelope curve, and measure the decay of that, calculate tau and see how that changes. Better yet, determine the Q of the system, as that an optimal figure of merit for the system.

[@misterknightowlandco]

This is going to turn into a series called “everything you know about guitar is wrong” and we’ll all be playing the Jim Lill signature squier bullet telecaster with Seymour Duncan pickups that only costs 249.99…

[@psyghtseer]

lol

[@DigiPal]

Makes me think of JHS pedal channel with a video talking about solid state amps and how "bad sounding" they are/were, but the video ironically shows how well sounding they can be, despite their supposed "bad reputation".

[@cfiyuhbv8rfbebuvrbty]

this is exactly what we should be doing. If Max Ostro plays Squier, it should be enough for us, too. kzbin.info/www/bejne/eneklYGYqc6gfbM

[@bassyey]

@@DigiPal Oh I thought that channel are tube snobs and zealots.

[@drewdavis2392]

I'm holding out for the channel to promote with a guitar giveaway. Imagine owning your own Jim Lill Signature chopper Strat with custom finish that uses Jim's secret formula for improved tone and sustain.

[@NoContextOasis]

I fucking love this guy man. I can hear the cork sniffers sharpening their pitchforks.

[@tykjpelk]

As a physicist, I find it interesting that the sustain was better with lower tension - with open strings. When the tension is lower the frequency is lower, and that means the string goes through fewer resonance periods in the same time. The Q (quality) factor is an important parameter for a resonator, and it tells you the fraction of power lost in a single period. If the Q factor stays the same but the period increases, you have more sustain.

[@hansmemling2311]

I would love it if physicists and scientists started dong tests on instruments. I bet lots of myths or misconceptions could be destroyed.

[@AlCleveland]

What about the composition and/or quality of the string itself? Can an isolated string in a “dead”acoustic environment exhibit self generated sustain?

[@tykjpelk]

@@AlCleveland Well, a string that has a lot of "friction" if you will call it that, i.e. loses vibration every to heating, will have worse sustain even attached to a diamond guitar in a vacuum or something silly like that. We can imagine a string made from one long crystal played near absolute zero, but of course it wouldn't be very practical. The tuning forks in quartz watches are nice though.

[@kentl7228]

Too light or too tight a tension would be detrimental to keep the string in motion for longer?

[@user-bl3si3kq6x]

Wouldn't the string with higher tension(more mass at same tuning) have a harder time moving? Seems like basic physics.

[@TheEnderBand]

These make me so happy because it just confirms that as long as a guitar is built properly and the pickups are ok, there’s no reason it can’t be a usable sound

[@flachmann161]

True. I finally stopped wasting money on "tonewood" bullshit or new fancy pickups. What really matters is the speaker

[@ot4kon]

@@flachmann161 nah they are really old bad pickups from the 90s and 2000s era when there was no middle ground just great expensive guitars and cheap crap, but true, mostly all the new cheap guitars and all the epi and squiers come with ok, usable Pickups.

[@221b-l3t]

​@@ot4kon Yes I have pickups like that, they truly suck. It doesn't mean you need Aeymour Duncans or original PAFs you stole from Joe Bonamassa but just decently made pickups. Epiphones from the early 2000s had pretty sucky ones. Alnico Classic. I ordered some Tonerider Alnico 2 Classics, with high hopes. In demos they sound as nice as original PAFs at half the cost of name brand stuff (still a lot of money for two magnets wrapped in copper wire).

[@UncleWalter1]

Interesting. Makes me think that perhaps the higher perceived sustain on a Les Paul vs a Tele might be the fact that the Les Pauls will tend to have higher output pickups, causing the amp to break up more easily.

[@CarlyonProduction]

This has always been at least part of the puzzle. Back before we had such a plethora of pedals, people liked using les Paul’s to drive their Marshall’s for exactly this reason.

[@McSlobo]

Well, you can test this by using similar pickups. There are humbucker T-style guitars but dunno if there's an LP with T-style pickups (that would be interesting). I would guess the LP-style guitars are usually more expensive (glued on neck, carved top etc.) and therefore probably better made because why waste the extra effort (well, there are bolt-on LPs with flat top too). Might be something as simple as sloppily filed nut (why bother if it's a cheap guitar, right). I actually have a T-style guitar (RRP around $1000) with a humbucker and with simple ear test there's no difference to my LP-style guitar (RRP $2000). Fine, it has '59 while the LP has Pearly Gates and they have a bit different pots and caps. Didn't set up a DAW for this. Noo, I didn't pay the full price, both guitars were on some crazy summer sale and are awesome. I hope I could play to be worthy to them. Cheers.

[@TheMaxKids]

The longest sustained note I’ve ever heard was in the song “Machine Gun” by Hendrix. And that was a strat with a bolt-on neck. Oh yeah, fully cooking Plexi too.

[@KelticKabukiGirl]

@@TheMaxKids I can hold a note for a couple minutes. Just get a good comp, high gain and especially an early Muff Style or Swollen Pickle and keep the note trilling slowly

[@bartelvandervelden9894]

@@KelticKabukiGirl if you keep trilling the note slowly, you're changing the pitch (slightly) and constantly adding/releasing tension, meaning you basically add new vibrations. Point of sustain is that you aren't manipulating the strings. But in a practical sense, this doesn't really matter: you got some long notes in your sleeve and that's all that matters in a musical sense

[@latheofheaven1017]

It's always struck me that keeping the energy of a vibrating string in the string is the best way to sustain the vibration. Taking a significant part of that energy and using it to make other things vibrate means the string doesn't have that energy any more. But then I'm just another person with a half-baked understanding of physics having an opinion. What we need is tests. Thanks Jim Lill for providing them.

[@jackgreenwood1817]

I would agree with you on this 👍

[@mark78750]

Your point of view makes sense. When people go on about having a resonant electric guitar, they are saying that losing string energy to the guitar body is a good thing. That doesn’t make sense, especially if you are looking for good sustain. The whole thing about how if an electric guitar sounds good acoustically it will sound good plugged in is ridiculous. That’s an Eric Johnsonism that gets repeated endlessly. It’s nonsense.

[@latheofheaven1017]

@@mark78750 With acoustic guitars, you want to transfer that vibration into the body and for the body to resonate, because the body is doing the amplifying. But with electric guitar you don't use the body to amplify. You're using the amplifier for that!

[@carlosclaptrix]

I think that’s right for an electric guitar. Acoustic guitars have to transform the vibration into air movement, so that’s a completely different situation.

[@joshuasox]

I literally had the same epiphany while watching the video. Seems to me the more insulated the string the more vibration it would keep. I also understand the quiet resonance test winning out. Works the same way as cold water heating faster than hot. The string warbling heavily causes it to loose it's vibration quicker than say a medium to light stroke. So while you would see a louder sound from a heavier stroke it would also suffer the most sustain loss of volume.

[@jtobrien_]

I’m fatter after covid and my general sustain in each of my guitars is by far better… When I was less soft, things had less resonance for sure. You and your studies are incredible! Stay Awesome

[@simonlinser8286]

wait are you saying skinny people pick up more resonance from the guitar against their hip bone and ribs, meaning that if you got more fat for the guitar to rest against you will get more sustain. i think you're on to something here.

[@W4TSKY]

@@simonlinser8286 It honestly... makes sense

[@ButterDawgDawgWitDaBudda]

@@simonlinser8286 I will try to document this experiment when I buy my next tonehuman

[@michaelsnydermusic]

Resonance and sustain are two different things though. Sustain of course refers to the length of time a note or sound rings out and the decay of said note. Resonance has to do with the frequency oscillation of an object along with said sound making it louder and more rich. Put your guitar (bass is even better) against a wall (unplugged to remove the speaker agitating the pickups) and it resonates like an amplifier making the sound bass heavy and rich. But your note will not last longer. Your body is essentially doing the same thing.

[@AizaakThurston]

ohh dang. I'm always trying to find an upside to being fatter since that happened to me too

[@EthanMckennaMusic]

You are epic. What a service to the guitar community

[@rickthomas393]

Jim, IMHO you are emerging as KZbin’s premiere guitar assumptions tester, using an empirical approach. In a college philosophy Epistemology class decades ago (how do we ‘know’ things?) I learned there 4 main ways: 1) Authority (I can’t see atoms but I accept physicists work, etc.) 2) Belief. (flimsy, or no repeatable evidence but I believe it to be true, anyway.) 3) Reason. (Logic proves how I know this (if A =B & B=C, then A=C, etc.) 4) Empirical. ( I know it because it has been tested reputably, and can be repeated by anyone who puts in the equal effort.) You are part of the great Empirical tradition of science, Jim! Keep it up!!

[@good_king_guitarman1334]

Jim you've broken the mould. You are making the best guitar videos on YT i've seen in years, congratulations on a job well done.

[@dedompler]

had a feeling it'd be a player turned maker

[@RohannvanRensburg]

I appreciate you asking down to earth questions and especially approaching it humbly rather than smugly, which videos like this too often do.

[@meriwoo7382]

idk the last segment of what actually affects sustain was pretty smug

[@JMD501]

​@@meriwoo7382 but at that point he already proved his theory. If you do the hard work, then you can be a little smug.

[@acook213]

I love how he used his guitar as a cutting board for the wooden dowel

[@robinleebraun7739]

Thinking of building a guitar out of a cutting board.

[@avjake]

The Edge used an Infinite Guitar, built by Michael Brook, on the album version of With or Without You, but used an EBow on tour to play the song. In case anyone was wondering.

[@SejaSuaEssencia]

And about Slash on Estranged?

[@michael1]

@@SejaSuaEssencia No, use the bathroom please

[@Chord_The_Seeker]

One thing that always cracks me up about sustain is when guitarists say, “Listen to the sustain on this guitar!”, and then apply vibrato to the string the whole time. If you’re physically manipulating the string the whole time it’s going to keep producing sound. To me sustain is best tested the way you did it the first time in this video, by simply strumming the strings, and then letting them ring, and measuring the decay of the output level of the resulting sound.

[@mallninja9805]

Every guitar player knows that _tremolo_ is when you change the notes pitch!!

[@nesicus]

@@JeighNeither Check your sarcasm detector.

[@michaelsullivan8934]

Also, the idea that sustain is such an important quality in an instrument. Some people use it interchangeably with “resonance” or “clarity”, but sustain as just the length of time a note takes to decay has never really seemed that crucial to me. How often are you going to strike a note and let it hang there for 30 seconds? Good but slots, bridge saddles, and fret-dressing should be the first priorities for pretty much any aspect of how a guitar sounds.

[@bomzhiha-s-kurskogo-vokzala]

3 types of tremolo: 1. Fast right hand technique 2. Strat floating bridge 3. Pedal/Amp FX with repetative volume drops. Don't know why, but this is fun 😆

[@FacePomagranate]

@@bomzhiha-s-kurskogo-vokzala There's also a 4th type which is essentially a trill between notes that are more than a step apart.

[@tonybrijeski4912]

Jim Lill - The Electric Guitar Scientist - love it. Keep em coming. Intelligent debate supported by test data is always welcomed. Just downloaded the spreadsheet and will be looking at it. Thanks for taking the time to do this.

[@wonicles]

I still remember my first electric guitar, and I was a beginner player. It was a red Lotus strat copy, with a beginner Crate amp. I never thought it sounded very good. I could play chords and stuff, but not much else at that time. Then my friend's older brother's bands lead guitar player picked it up once. It was amazing how good the guitar sounded. How the notes rang out. That changed my perspective on instruments that day. A great player can make most anything sound good. Don't buy in to the mystery bull. Buy and use guitars that you like, and that sound good to you. Simple as that. Jim proves this whole story IMO at the end of the video, taking that glued up drilled strat copy, and making it sound good. Great work on this video, and the last.

[@flouisbailey]

Dedicated musical scientist👍

[@JohannDowa]

Exactly.. took me awhile to learn this... i started with a cheap $99 guitar given to me, I stunk on, eventually I bought a $1,000 strat and left the cheap guitar for years... one day I decided to sell that guitar for $50, and the guy that bought it, well he played it amazing when testing it out and I was like... wow it's actually a decent guitar.

[@fspieler]

had the same experience with my mim strat

[@StreetForged]

90% of the guitars sound comes from the pickups. Most of the other differences come down to looks and playability, with expensive guitars having smoother, more playable necks that generally can tolerate lower actions better. I mainly play a Les Paul, but the string tension is lower than a lot of other guitars due to the shorter scale length, which can cause some issues with more complicated passages that employ tremolo picking. It feels like when I play my strat or Ibanez guitars, I can more easily play complex riffs, while the Les Paul feels a bit more effortless in note fretting and bluesy styles of music that aren't as technically demanding. There have been occasions where I've used friends very expensive and well set up guitars, and it instantly feels like I've gained a year of experience and everything becomes easier to play. Any guitar can sound decent, but there can also be a pretty clear contrast between them, especially comparing beginner sub 200 dollar guitars to guitars in the 500+ range. After 1000 dollars there really isn't much to gain from spending more other than frills

[@SleepscapeSerenity]

Reminds me of that scene in the Simpsons, when bart gets a new electric guitar but thinks it broken, then Otto picks it up and shreds

[@nickx1754]

The amount of effort you put into this video...man, you've got yourself another subscriber. Excellent work!

[@bumpty9830]

*Love* your methodical approach! Hope you keep doing tests like this. "I've never taken a statistics class..." I took _one_ in college, got a C. I'm no expert either. Later as a practicing engineer, when I wanted to understand the statistics to analyze experiments, specifically, I was recommended a textbook called "Statistics for Experimenters" (by Box, Hunter and Hunter) and I _highly_ recommend it. The fact that you made that spreadsheet makes it pretty clear to me that you'd appreciate the contents. The fundamental idea is to design the experiment around the data you're hoping to extract, and the book provides the (fairly minimal) math & statistics required to get the most data out of the smallest number of data points. So you either save yourself time doing the tests, or you get more data for the same effort (compared to doing an off-the-cuff experimental design). Now, the method does rely on quantifying results, which won't always be possible in an obvious way. (Exactly how similar or different, as a number, are any two tone samples, for example?) But when it is possible (e.g. how long is the sustain?), it's quite beautiful. If you're curious, but not quite curious enough to buy a textbook, you might look up "factorial design," which is one of the methods taught in the book. There's not a huge amount of KZbin content on the subject, but this short video discusses the basic idea: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fXjZppSZj8dgd7M I would also be happy to help you design an experiment to get a feel for the method.

[@DanielJacksonisbiggerinside]

I love textbook recommendations like this ... Except that the books always cost so much... 😆

[@jamescerone]

He’s joking. He’s taken statistics classes

[@Fausto_4841]

"NERD!"

[@colemadden5147]

Design of experiments. Took it as an engineer in school. Crazy stuff

[@joeemenaker]

4:30 As shown here, overdrive (and distortion) are, inherently, compressors (with super-high compression ratio)

[@evanmargol3408]

That's sort of true but not really. There are no compressors with infinitely fast attack and release times. Sure limiters try but still do not have infinitely fast release times. Only clipping and saturation do. Thus guitar amplifiers and clipping/saturation processors.

[@daleturner3507]

Always love hearing the old sustain comments! I’ve got 12 guitars from different brands ranging from $50 to $1700. Never once have I said I love this guitar it just doesn’t have sustain! Great video look forward to more!

[@orlock20]

Because the number of songs with over 10,000 views on KZbin that have a guitar note hold for 8+ seconds is probably zero. Even four second notes are rare. However, many players don't like sustain and palm mute their guitar.

[@LaminatorX]

Between the lines here: String gages. Low E dramatically out sustains High E across the board, and it makes sense. More mass = More momentum, and the surface area increases at the square of radius while volume & mass increase at the cube - so increasing momentum overtakes increasing air resistance. Open question then around smaller differences. How big a difference in sustain is there between a .09 and a .11 E string? I'd also love to see a test like this comparing different string types. Bare vs wound, flat wounds, coated, etc.

[@gentelmanjunkie542]

Yay science!

[@Bova13]

YOU ARE SOOOO CRAZY!!! And I am so glad you are and are running this tests. I've learn more about tone in the couple of hours I have watching your videos, than in my 30 years as a guitar player and musician. Thanx, man!

[@gravitationalconstant]

"So I did that." Holy cow dude! Respect.

[@zhangke1350]

I was so surprised at 3:40 that he actually did all the combinations. Respect!!!

[@TamierTheRocker]

He put his own guitars through so much for science. The real research nobody was ready to do. Thank you. Now I'm sure I don't need a heavy guitar for it to sustain good

[@TheMemagNeman]

Actually this guy does this for quite some time. There are even videos with "tonewoods" and other tests. Quite popular as well. kzbin.info/door/yaStghQb7_e51PgH8bUkzg

[@au5music]

From what I’ve gathered (and assumed) the most significant factors that effect the overall sound of a guitar are pickup type, pickup position, and player.

[@vidamansa1337]

The actual Au5 here? That's crazy. Love your music, man

[@whereandbackagain7059]

Au5 and I think that final factor counts for about 95% of it.

[@SeeSawMassacre]

I'd say the amp has a more significant impact on the sound than the player or even the pickup position.

[@GianmarioScotti]

Some guitars have been hurt in the making of this awesome video.

[@RockerBug17]

I appreciate all the effort you've put into testing long held, and inaccurate, beliefs in the electric guitar world. Strings, pickups, and signal processors are the most important parts of an electric guitar signal chain, period.

[@laaaliiiluuu]

And I would add a correct setup of the guitar as he showed in the video (string height, condition of the bridge, nut, frets, etc.)

[@matias20081]

Scale length?

[@CyclesAreSingularities]

@@laaaliiiluuu yes but that's only really gonna only gonna make a difference when it's a problem. fret buzz or dead strings for example are critical errors in the condition of a guitar. a dead string can't properly produce all the harmonics and string buzz will destroy sustain and introduce a wierd buzzing sound. so yes proper setup will sound different then inproper setup but 2 different proper setups are not gonna do much

[@alphagt62]

Getting your electronics right is most important, but that doesn’t mean wood and construction is not important.

[@happyhell1]

@@alphagt62 - did you see the last video where the wood and construction were proven meaningless?

[@RichWhiteley]

These vids are amazing. And the best takeaway lesson I'm getting, is quit cork sniffing and just pick up your guitar and practice/play/make music. And yes, pickups, setup, and strings probably matter the most. Love it, thanks for all your hard work putting these together!

[@jakestewartmusic]

Love this so much! I've never understood the obsession with sustain for guitar players. Certainly some guitars have differing levels of sustain, but I've always felt like the differences in acoustic sustain caused by different bridge materials, break angles, etc were negligible compared to the effects of compression, overdrive, and volume created by pedals and the amp, and the resulting feedback of the setup as a whole. When I think of sustain, most of the tones that come to mind eventually blossom into feedback and they all had insanely loud amps, fuzz pedals, etc added into the mix to get there.

[@walterkersting6238]

I like how he entertains each idea without implying that the idea is stupid and then proceeds to give it a try. There doesn’t seem to be a hint of prejudice against the idea or even stupider ideas.

[@knotwilg3596]

Sometimes there's a glint in the eye when uttering the most ridiculous beliefs. But that may be (again) the eye of the beholder.

[@robertmenzies3032]

Your videos are really great and have inspired me with my own guitar choices. Forget buying highly expensive guitars I have bought a budget one, got it set up well, changed the pick-up and had them set to a hight of my preference. Personally think I now have a guitar that sounds like one double the cost and with the tone and playability I really like. Thanks so much

[@matthewburrows8851]

This 👆🏼

[@gentelmanjunkie542]

Word. Just bought a Indo Retro that I'm gonna upgrade the electronics on, give it a set up overhaul and refinish refinish the wood and trim the headstock to look just like a vintage Telecaster and and save 10k.

[@86Sporty58]

So now there is nothing to talk about at the guitar store! I love this. Thanx

[@justinpaquette224]

The most important factors for sustain are, good fret work, well cut nut, good functioning bridge, high enough action, new strings

[@Broganshire]

and the way you play lol

[@iancombs857]

Neck relief can have a surprising impact on attack and sustain as well. Loosen your truss rod and play a note, then tighten it a bit and play it. I THINK what’s happening there is the neck is chewing up some energy by bowing a little when the string is struck. If you can keep the neck as practicably straight as possible, I think you stand your best chance at getting the least amount of loss there as is possible.

[@TexanUSMC8089]

How much does the nut come into play when you have a string fretted? When you play a chord, some of the strings may be open, but not when playing a note on a string that's pressed against a fret.

[@sirporkrib7643]

Weight definitely acts as a huge factor, when the weight is below a certain threshold. The "air guitar" is actually infinite weight, it will pretty much be the same as a 8lb or 6lb guitar. But how about 0.5lb? It simplely won't sustain long. 0.5lb hollowbody guitar? That would be even worse. It's all about how much energy is being taken by the guitar. Very simple physics. For solidbody above 5lb, effectively no energy is taken by the guitar, so in real life, the guitar itself won't really affect your sustain.

[@sirporkrib7643]

And that's proven by the 8:48 part of the video. When the resonant dresser took away quite a lot of energy, single note sustain saw a difference of 4db, which is huge. 4db is almost 3 times of power ratio.

[@TheTapeFarm]

This is awesome. Thanks for showing these myths to be what they are… marketing nonsense. I have Danelectro guitars made of Masonite with pickups made by wrapping wire around a tape covered bar magnet and shoved into two halve of a lipstick case and a bridge made out of a hunk of wood…. guess what? They sound great. What an electric guitar is made of matters far less than how it’s made, and more importantly how it’s set up and ultimately played.

[@Syclone0044]

Masonite and a tape covered magnet shoved into a lipstick case 😂 I love it

[@adambrown5172]

His data showed differences in all tests

[@pwhite102]

I love how the results are basically "play what you like, get it set up correctly, and little things makes little differences (and it's fine if you get nerdy)" That being said, I think you'd do a great job experimenting with caps, pots, pickups, and amps. Things that are less superstitious but still a bit overblown

[@221b-l3t]

Well yes that's why I need 6 Les Pauls, gotta compare 50s wiring to regular and 6 kinds of PAFs! The magnet type seems to have a fair amount of influence. So an Alnico 2 vs an Alnico 4 might be a bigger difference than two decently made pickups with the same magnet. There's a few companies that make high quality pickups with less of a magic sauce premium like Iron Gear and Tonerider. I ordered some of the latter. They sound really nice and 50 bucks a piece seems fair enough for something made with the ambition to actually match the construction of an original. After that copper is copper Alnico 4 is Alnico 4. Doesn't really matter if Seymour Duncan or GFS bought from the supplier and put it together. In fact if the Toneriders do sound like they do in some demos they will sound better and closer to the original than the SD 59, which would be nice. But it's not like turning up the treble on the amp doesn't fix it but that doesn't count!!!

[@pwhite102]

@@221b-l3t And I'd watch that video for sure!

[@calansvc]

These videos are a lot of fun, and also informative. But the subtle wit and humor is the icing on the cake. Well done.

[@diogomartins3629]

best guitar channel ever.

[@alsilverman5084]

Outstanding work Jim! You can call these segments “Guitar Science”

[@MakeSomething]

I have a guitar build video coming out this spring and will be linking back to these test videos. So good!!

[@garyjohnstonemusic]

These videos are amazing Jim. Through pure experimentation alone (not withstanding your own insane knowledge of craftsmanship and musical ability) you're discounting all this marketing we're fed as to what makes a great player. The attention to detail in your videos is insane and will save a lot of people like myself a lot of money when they realise tone is (mostly) in the fingers. You're a world class player but it's also really cool that you don't use these videos to showcase that, just to demo the gear. The air gtr vid blew my mind.

[@scotthayd]

Science is awesome! Thanks for doing science on things that I have questions about.

[@torta2012]

MAN YOU ARE EXTREMELY INTELLIGENT! and you're videos are beyond intelligently made. You get everything down to a science. You will excell in life if you are focused. I wish you worked for me in my Mortgage company

[@bluglass7819]

I build and do little experiments to answer my own questions sometimes. These videos have been super interesting to me.

[@420Gold]

I’ve always wondered if how I hold and move the guitar affects the sustain. It would make sense that how you move the guitar after picking a note could effect how the string vibrates, and how long it vibrates. And also any airflow/wind could also make a difference in certain settings.

[@toni.santiago]

As a physicist, i would say that two major things that can affect the sound of an ELECTRIC guitar in general, including the sustain as well, have to do with how the sound is produced and captured in the first place. And these two things are the strings and the pickups. Its all about electromagnetism. All the things involved in this factors, like the string material, tension etc, and the pickup resistance, magnet type, etc, and how this signal is produced and recorded. And i agree when you said about the amp relevance. Even if you flip the tone knob in half, it can affect the sustain

[@g4guitarpenrith]

He has another video exploring all of that. It's a great watch.

[@valueofnothing2487]

Unfortunately he isn't using a picking machine so all his observations are irrelevant.

[@g4guitarpenrith]

@@valueofnothing2487 yeah, would have been even better with that

[@LaminatorX]

Not irrelevant,@@valueofnothing2487 , just variable between samples. He only shows each vartation once in the video, but he mentions taking multiple samples and averaging the results.

[@anttihuovilainen1653]

As an EE, I'll say that the pickup only has effect on sustain by either robbing the strings of energy (having it too close to the strings) and by how much it emphasizes the high frequencies that are more present in the attack transient compared to the decaying part of the note. The latter is much of the reason people think that humbuckers "sustain more", where your typical humbucker simply emphasizes the attack less. If you were to compare the volume at one second vs five seconds, the difference between single coils and humbuckers would be close to zero.

[@MorbidManoeuvres]

love how deep this went, thank you. I guess the easiest after all is to help the guitar itself get there, high gain amp with a compressor.

[@DylanWOWilliams]

Dude. I genuinely love it.

[@RoySmithVideo]

Love it! Disproves every one of those "golden ear" guys that claim this or that feature of their favorite boutique guitar has the magic sustain. Keep up the good work!

[@fromgermany271]

The golden ears have often proven, that they cannot distinguish the „things that control a guitars tone“ in a blind test. A German university professor, who owns a collection of guitars of original brands wrote a book about all aspects of the system „electrical guitar&amp“. He occasionally added quotes from „expert magazines“, often contrary quotes, even from the same author, just based on what they tested. The result was: there are design aspects, some designs are just better solutions, but these are not the ones normally seen. E.g. the tone on a old LP was very dull and he found that the short cable from pick to pot was isolated with cotton, which collected moisture from the environment and that changed it‘s capacity to 10x the capacity of a standard guitar cable. So playing in the dessert sounded much better than playing in the Mississippi delta. Or he found that even modern Gibsons used an old approximation for the 12th root of 2 spacing of threads, whereas the cheap Epiphone’s used the correct values.

[@forcryingoutloud23]

I guess I'd hear things different if I had gold stuck in my ears too.

[@mathkrGames]

@@fromgermany271 Kannst du mir den Autor bzw. Namen des Buches sagen? Bin durch googlen leider grad nicht drauf gestossen.

[@fromgermany271]

@@mathkrGames Manfred Zollner, Physik der Elektrogitarre. Leider vergriffen, aber in Teilen als PDF runterladbar. Edit: er hat die einzelnen Kapitel als YT-Videos verfügbar gemacht. Lesen fände ich besser.

[@mathkrGames]

@@fromgermany271 Danke!

[@twasdl]

As a kid when I wanted more sustain with an electric guitar, I upgraded to a better pickup and amp. I’d love to see these tone and sustain videos with acoustic guitars.

[@briansanchez9899]

Most of the tone wood mythology and all the other magic stuff that people believe does apply to acustica instruments, so I'm guessing that it will be the opposite of this videos.

[@Ottophil]

When I wanted more sustain i just picked again

[@Michael-dx8qz]

@@briansanchez9899 yep, acoustic guitar actually uses the guitar itself to make sound, whereas the heavy lifting comes from the amp with electric guitar

[@DrMurdercock]

@@Ottophil yeah, i never really understood the whole sustain thing. LIke, why lol. Maybe i just dont play the right style, but sustain has never had any effect on anything ive played on an electric guitar through a hi gain tube amp

[@Lebron069]

Great video man. I'd love to see a test on why semi hollow guitars sound different in comparison to a solid body.

[@markmallinder7618]

Very good point! I doubt that putting a strat pickup under the strings of a steel string acoustic would make it sound like a strat?

[@balint.palace]

Your findings (and methodology) create a whole new foundation for guitarists. These pieces of information should be taught in guitar classes. Huge respect

[@33114567]

There is more science in these videos than in many published papers in academic journals. Keep it up mate!

[@brodavidb]

And in public schools.

[@karthain5742]

For your next test video, it would be cool if you did necks. Set versus bolted versus through.

[@AKustik632]

I think his previous video with just strings and no fretboard already debunks this myth

[@aforabiishk]

Ola englund has done a video on this topic

[@shakeyoulikehaiti]

You're telling me you've never hit a note at the end of the song just to let it ring out for a little bit? That has to be longer than 4 seconds sometimes lol. I love your process man. Thank you for what you do. You put a lot of work and time into your videos. It's nice to see someone who cares about the quality of their content. Truly, thank you.

[@nef36]

Well, as per the video, any guitar can do that over 20 seconds. What we're concerned with is having the note be as loud as possible for when it musically matters. For end of song ringouts, less sustain actually sounds like a better idea because you're less likely to have to mute the strings before they're inaudible.

[@duanevigue1603]

Guitar players have a hard-on for words like "sustain" and "tonewood". Like you showed, the fact of the matter is, when it comes to electric guitars, the type of wood, its thickness, body size and shape, etc., etc., etc., have little to nothing to do with these mythical words. Electric guitars and the sounds they make are determined by the player and their amp. Thats it.

[@spadestight6308]

Pickups too but yeah that’s about it

[@designator7402]

@@spadestight6308 Pickups and the electrics of the guitar. If you run everything through a passive low-pass it's going to sound different :P

[@mk_rexx]

The sound chain is basically the player->strings->pickup->electronics->amp.

[@hctaz]

Pmuch this. I remember almost getting caught up in the specifics of the tone wood and all of that nonsense when I was younger. And then I used my brain and started doing some testing LOL The way I look at it, those "mythical words" you mentioned definitely can matter, but not for the actual quality of the sound being produced. If you're buying a Mahogany guitar because it's supposed to magically sound better, you're being scammed. BUT if you're buying a specific guitar because the neck is proportioned better for your hands or the body is a better size or the wood is a better quality that will make it durable to warping and other defects over time then you're using those buzz words for the right reasons. I think a lot of people are trying to hype up these expensive guitars and market them to new players who are likely to not stick with the hobby for a long time. Buzzwords are super effective when targeted towards 16 year olds who are just trying to impress their girlfriends with a guitar. You shouldn't throw all merit in those qualities completely, but you need to choose a guitar for the right reasons and not because some dude said mahogany is better for tone LOL

[@thomasmoody8307]

It's funny when he reads unsubstantiated, contradictory hypothesizing by people on forums. When presented with evidence that their beliefs are incorrect, though, they will claim to have magical ears that can detect sublime differences in tone, and if we were lucky enough to have extra super special hearing, too, then we would realize they are right. They must think they are Ferengi from Star Trek and play a dog whistle like it's a harmonica.

[@LukeEsther]

I love how sarcastic you are when discussing some of the theories while still remaining completely objective in your delivery.

[@JBCavern]

This is my first time here and as a non-guitar player, this was really impressive to have this explained.

[@obviouslyblack]

The most important factor is cost. The more money I spend on a guitar, the less willing I am to accept its shortcomings.

[@nicholassharp9798]

Next video should be about how a hollow body sounds different than a solid body. If the wood and finish has nothing to do with the tone / sustain, why do hollow-bodies have those hollow sounding overtones?

[@extendicus262]

I imagine it would have something to do with the vibration having enough room to go into the body and back out through the sound holes

[@alphagt62]

Sustain is just one aspect of performance. Tone is a very different thing. There are very good reasons why guitar makers use certain tone woods. If it made no difference, why use some expensive wood? I know from personal experience that wood type and construction make a huge difference in tone. I’ve got two Fender basses. One is a Squire P bass, with what amounts to a plywood body. The American P Bass is the exact same size and shape, but is made of Adler. Both necks are identical, rock maple with maple fretboard, and they have both been hot rodded with Seymour Duncan Quarter Pounder pickups, their electronics are identical, I did the work myself. The result is, they are both fine guitars, but the Adler body is head and shoulders above the Squire, it has a beefier tone, a longer sustain, and a quality to the notes that the Squire doesn’t have.

[@joshuarichard2509]

@@alphagt62 he already made a video debunking tone wood....you clearly missed it.

[@alphagt62]

@@joshuarichard2509 all he has done is measure volume, he has in no way measured tone. Some people just don’t want to realize that they are tone deaf. If they can’t hear it, they don’t believe it exists, simple as that.

[@sagnier]

@@alphagt62 you should definitely make a video countering what Jim has done. It would doubtless be amazing...

[@dannaaa330]

You also have to keep in mind that a few decibels of difference is a massive difference in loudness, since decibels are a logarithmic scale, not a linear one like meters.

[@GuyXVIII]

exactly ^^ Add few of these "small" differences and you have the tone thing going on.

[@doom.azafran]

It's a logarithmic scale because even if the sound is x10 times louder, our ears only percibe an small increase in volume. So a difference of 3-5db is not that much.

[@knotwilg3596]

"Loudness" is not a physical quantity but a quality of human perception. Pressure is a physical quantity. Decibels ARE the measure of loudness, i.e. our perception of the (difference in) pressure coming from different sound waves on our ears. So a few decibels of difference is a small difference in loudness, by definition. They may represent a major difference in the pressure on our ears, but we appear to "sense" this pressure difference in a logarithmic way.

[@YoMothar]

it'd be really interesting to see the sustain difference between a wooden neck guitar & an aluminum neck guitar like an EGC or a travis bean since it's such a wildly different material than wood it would most likely sustain differently than a wooden neck

[@edphaze6550]

Dude, I don’t know what is more entertaining. Watching your videos or reading the comments!

[@dominikrucka3552]

Another great one. I enjoy the fantasy, that at least SOME people will stop obsessing about such things. I like that right at the start you've addressed my main problem with the sustain discussion (that was pissing me off for years) - ...because "For how long do you actually want the note to ring? What kind of music do you play"? Your videos are filling me with a great deal of satisfaction, because it just proves me right. And I don't even know much about "guitar physics", but it just always seemed obvious to me, that the tonal differences from guitar to guitar are in the real world inaudible, and that every guitar that isn't a piece of crap has enough sustain for a "normal person". Let's recap people: - The tone comes from an amp (and pedals/effects ofc) and the speaker (or an IR) and to certain extent pickups. ...NOBODY will notice if you change anything other than this. - Sustain is fine ("long enough") if the guitar is well built and properly set up. ...so get yourself a $200+ guitar and you're fine. And no, your $1000+ Gibson, Fender, ...whatever, isn't better when comes to the tone (except pickups) and longer sustain. It has better hardware, better electronics and it probably (hopefully) plays better, but play something else (with the same pickups) and nobody will hear a difference. Good for you for having an expensive guitar (I mean it sincerely), but don't argue that it sounds better than well built and properly setup inexpensive guitar, because "the wood, the...whatever". No, it's because of the pickups (that probably cost like $200 bucks a set). We should all focus on getting better at writing music (i.e. actually spend time writing music), rather than researching tonal differences between steel and brass saddles. Thanks for the ridiculous amount of work these videos surely take.

[@xenophonkirby]

I recently put some Seymour Duncan Pearly Gates in a cheap guitar that now knocks ALL my expensive guitars out of the park. You're absolutely right!

[@anthonyguy1347]

I really enjoy the posts I've seen so far. You are like a " Musical Mythbuster" Taking a scientific approach to answering a question. The fact that more questions arise, is secondary to the fact that much of what I've heard, doesn't seem to live up to the results. I don't have any answers, I simply try things and settle for what I like best, and not what others tell me.

[@m0nzderr1]

Decibels are already in a logarithmic scale, so 3db difference at 25db, at 10db or at 0db, is still the same 3db! Which is already quite a lot - it's about 50% change in the signal amplitude. Even 1db change (~20%) can be perceived by many people (I'm sure - every guitarist will be able at least to feel that change when playing). As one of the possible ways to have a better picture, I'd suggest, to consider another metric: the time of decay. I.e., compare the time it takes for the level to drop by some fixed ratio, like 10db.

[@Harmonic14]

While that might make a better picture for some, fixing the dB drop instead of the time is just a different way of obtaining the same information.

[@AlmostSickBoy]

Ты понимаешь что он струны своей рукой вводит в резонанс? Не роботом с постоянным усилием, а рукой.

[@m0nzderr1]

@@AlmostSickBoy Понимаю. Мы же не амплитуду меряем а коефициент затухания, т.е отношение между начальной и конечной амплитудой. При не сильном ударе по струнам и на клине (т.е. при достаточно линейнонй характеристике всего хоз-ва), это отношение слабо зависит от начального усилия.

[@edgarmatias]

@@rajeev-vikram-singh Semitones are logarithms, as are the other intervals. People may have trouble thinking in logs, but they can perceive them naturally (all music).

[@NMPshadow]

there is a simple reason, why we use the log scale for sound. We hear it this way. We are able to hear very well at 40dB and also at 100dB, if we used a linear scale for the actual sound pressure, it would extend over many orders of magnitude. Also 3dB at high dBs is definitely not the same as at low dBs, thats the whole point of dB! The difference between 15dB and 12dB is (1.12e-4 Pa - 8e-5 Pa = 3.2 μPa) while 103dB vs 100dB is (2.8 Pa - 2 Pa = 0.8 Pa). And saying that 1dB change can be perceived by many people is a bold statement. I gave lessons in acoustics (physics, not music) and even getting a stable signal with a variance less than 2dB in a classroom is kinda impossible. (Good luck trying that with a guitar)

[@timschell5781]

Love to see how every change affects the sound, and not always how you might think

[@cdysan]

The 4 second note song was the world's first example of Doom Country.

[@winebird8952]

I personally feel like to make real difference with a single guitar, you could change the strings, pickups, and amp. But I also feel like sustain is too variable dependent. Like, any small shift in a test could have a significant impact on the outcome.

[@rafaelcabrera7570]

Love your videos. Just want to add that, even though resonance and sustain are factors that co-exist in electric guitars, they are inversely proportional. In other words, the more resonance, the less sustain, and viceversa. Think of acoustic versus solid body guitars. Resonance is the transfer of kinetic energy from the strings to the body of the guitar. If the string retains the energy, it vibrates longer; hence, longer sustain.

[@Zappabain]

Thank you. Another thing to notice is that maybe a more appropriate equivalent of the air guitar would have been pressing the head and bottom of the guitar, or just the head, against for example a heavy wardrove.

[@nickgoogle4525]

Good point. This also makes clear why the matress-guitar had more sustain than coupled-to-resonant-mass-guitar.

[@jrrarglblarg9241]

I went back to Santana’s Europa as soon as I saw your list and relistened. I counted out the note at around 3:00 as 11 seconds and another later at 17 seconds. I was blown away by it when I heard it as a kid. A musician adult explained it as big gain then a compressor before the amp to level out the volume from pluck to decay. It’s the only reason I knew what a compressor was when I was microcasting FM to my yard and realized I needed a pawnshop 3630. Now I’ll watch this video.

[@andreamuchetti4932]

Of you listen the 1980 live version with Yamaha sg, the second note il hold for One minute, but with feedback from amplifier..

[@alexstixx]

Santana talks about utilizing feedback in his masterclass, so I wouldn't discount that as an explanation in that song.

[@arlotinson8236]

This is an exceptional deconstruction that changed how I think about sustain.

[@paulmitchell5349]

Thanks for this video. Made me realise that what is important is how the ATTACK of the note fades out much quicker than the sustain.

[@sski]

Well done, Jim! I really enjoyed this ride. I almost did a spit take when you took the saw to that strat copy and started drilling holes in it (great editing!). Cool playing it at the end too :D I'm looking forward to the next adventure!

[@TheHesseJames]

It just confirms my experience. The important factors of an electric guitar are its playability and its pickup and electronics. The rest is pedals and amps. The most overall important factor is the player.

[@markhendrix5438]

Jim, you’re truly the Adam Ragusea of guitar experiments. Super interesting stuff, keep it up

[@joejohnson8966]

That he is.

[@blackhaulmike]

And as Adam sometimes shows up at music youtube Im waiting for the time he appears in comments on this channel.

[@pieterpuk7684]

I cant believe this channel is flying under the radar like this. Guitar voodoo sales pitches are on life support.

[@maksymbozhko5896]

I wonder if author tried doing like 10 measurements on the same guitar in the same conditions to see how consistent measurements are. My point: some of the differences measured are quite small and could be due to sligtly different strum strength. I get it this is a lot of measuring already and great video in any case

[@ASeventhSign]

My first 'nice' guitar was a neck thru body Charvel in the 80's. Typical hair metal type guitar, black with the shark-tooth inlays. \m/ One thing I loved about this guitar was that I could very clearly feel the strings vibrating the whole guitar. I could tune the guitar just from the vibrations. I used to say I love the sustain on this guitar. Other people would say the same thing. I have no idea how many db it would drop after 4 seconds, but I wonder if other guitarists mistakenly refer to that wonderful resonance you can physically feel throughout the whole guitar as 'sustain'? Maybe 8 years ago I bought a PRS SE guitar ($700), much cheaper than that old Charvel ($2500), with a neck thru body and the resonance feeling is very good, but not quite as responsive in the higher frequencies. Just a thought. It doesn't make me play any better or worse, but it makes me so happy when I play it. Those subtle vibrations give me the sensation of 'feeling' my guitar and the music. Even when I'm noodling around with no amp.

[@thwartificer]

So like it's basically a difference in produced overtones?

[@OldManTenno]

Here is something to try… how does string mass affect sustain? Will thicker strings sustain more, less, or the same?

[@Dartheomus]

You already have your answer in this video. He compares a high E and a low E. How much more difference do you want in string gauge. Heavier strings sustained longer by a bit, but considering how minimal the difference was between that big a swing, going from 9s to 10s won't have a huge impact on sustain. (Though it will affect the balance of your tone in my experience.)

[@jasperdgg]

@@Dartheomus That's not a good comparison, since there is a difference in string tension between the high and low E. Plus there might be a difference in wound vs unwound. What's more relevant to the discussion is the test he does when tuning the guitar up or down. It seems that more string tension decreases sustain, thus thicker strings, which require more tension to reach the same pitch, likely have less sustain. EDIT: Actually watching the video he seems to get mixed results with pitching up or down... strumming all the strings results in considerably less loss in db when tuned down; whereas on individual strings the opposite it appears to be true.

[@Dartheomus]

@@jasperdgg You hit the nail on the head. The results were inconsistent. That means the slight effects of string gauge will be negligible. Playing style will matter far more.

[@jasperdgg]

@@Dartheomus Agreed. I think there was also that Beato video a while back that concluded that lighter gauges may sound better, or at the very least don't sound worse. I might have to re-watch that one though to be sure. There doesn't seem to be a reason to torture ourselves playing thick strings in search of that elusive tone or sustain, that's for sure. I enjoy the fact that all these myths are getting busted; it's liberating to not care so much about gear and just focus on playing. Get the cheapest guitar that is playable, put some nice pickups in, learn to do a good setup and play the hell out of it.

[@perihelion7798]

The string length and gauge certainly do make a difference in sustain. This is very easy to prove on any guitar by shortening the length by fretting, etc.

Interesting thing is that lower and higher notes "invert" results on many of the tests: in one, the lower loses more dB than higher and in the next higher loses more than lower.

[@DanielJacksonisbiggerinside]

...which is a pretty good indication that you're testing something you didn't intend to test. (Not that the results aren't valid, they just need to be interpreted and perhaps re-tested with a different "control" variable.)

[@jurekwiater]

I wish I saw you before I bought my 50+ pedals (luckily - good investment). I should have invested in the right pickups

[@richhooper3949]

Thanks for making the video Jim. I would bet the things that dampen a guitar's vibrations the most are the player's arms, hands and body contacting the guitar's body and neck. It would be interesting to see a test where the guitar was hanging from some thin wire or fishing line and then strummed.

[@dirkkrau-stangenberg5632]

I find your test videos very interesting. One thing comes to my mind regarding the sustain: new strings vs aged strings. aged strings loose their sustain over time I would assume. (Your strings look new)

[@TuuTer]

This guy just destroyed the majority of guitar tone myths with science, showed that tone comes from the fingers (aka skill) and I bet the majority of people will STILL argue that wood matters 😜 Mate, amazing videos. I really appreciate your work and dedication. I know how much time and thought one has to put into that type of content.

[@darrenweight5972]

Some of the tests, like the mattress one, were surprising. A few dB is a big deal. Every raise of 6dB is effectively twice the perceived volume. So if a test does say 18dB in test A and 21dB in test B... That’s pretty major. Example - 42dB isn’t twice as loud as 21dB - It’s closer to 4 1/2 times louder.

[@Dopamint]

To be fair, the matress/dresser test, was the worst one design wise. There's no pressure applied on the matress, there is a lot of pressure applied on the dresser.

[@Junkmail_01]

Watched your first guitar video and thought you were a one hit wonder. This video makes me realize I was wrong. You’ve got a new subscriber.

[@Glissade195]

I don't even play guitar, but I find this kind of evidence awesome to watch. This is the kind of thing that the Internet was made for.