EVE's New Combat Meta - Surgical Strike Breakdown

So, on April the 15th, Surgical Strike went live. This patch brings with it some huge changes to the EVE Online combat meta, so today rather than going through the patch notes, I felt the best thing to do was to go through all the changes in detail in order to elaborate on just what these changes mean for you when playing.
Check out the devblog itself here - www.eveonline.com/article/q8f...
Come chat about the video in our Discord here! - / discord
If you'd like to try playing EVE Online for free, and start with 3 weeks free training, click this referral link! - www.eveonline.com/signup/?inv...
____________
Links
Twitter - / jintaaneve
Discord - / discord
Patreon - / jintaan
PayPal - www.paypal.me/jintaan

[@dougfoust117]

CCP : makes kiting op. Also CCP : why won't people brawl? It must be that blasters dont do enough dmg.

[@johndoe7063]

I think your math on Super EHP is a bit off, because when combined with the prior resist nerf, Supercarriers are looking at a 50-30% reduction in EHP rather than 30-20.

[@Torenhire]

My poor Impel... ~700k EHP pre-patch, 220k post-patch. Oof. Life as a private high-dollar space trucker has suddenly become a lot spookier.

[@mattelwell3837]

@Crixus Maximus No. This is fun.

[@Gaming513E]

As an abyssal runner, this update definitely hits the wallet pretty hard. While T5 abyssals are still doable, the amount of bling required to do so has gone up. In some cases like exotic filaments, its not a huge deal, but in firestorms it seems that you now need 2x as much bling (3 billion to nearly 6 billion for the Gila) to run smoothly. My next investment can no longer be 3 billion ISK for something that makes nearly 200M/hr, but 2.5 billion ISK for something that might break 150M/hr on a good day due to filament costs for exotics being insane. The fitting meta is still largely disorganized as people like Fonsui (he’s an expert, maybe interview him idk lol) probably try hard to find some new fits that work, but are hard to test due to the lack of seeded filaments on the test server, making the process of testing a fit take way longer. It may very well be months until the T5 abyssal meta is reorganized again to where it was at, although now with a much higher barrier to entry

[@Jintaan]

Great to know, thanks for taking the time to share!

[@Gaming513E]

You’re welcome! :) Figured I’d give my input since its something that I really care about, given that its how I make my ISK

[@terryd8692]

I figured these changes were aimed at capital Fleet but massively effect PVE. Resists play a massive part in Abyssal conduits, Emerging conduits and Missions. They're all going to be more tricky for the same rewards. If logistics ships were the problem can't you just nerf them?

[@sakreton]

Thank you doing this it's so chilling to hear you talking about eve!

[@Jintaan]

No worries, I'm glad you enjoy it!

[@KarlRosner]

My rocket kestrels don't care, so that's great! Burn towards enemies and hope for the best!

[@aronmangaming]

Love these changes, keeps throwing the EVE meta up and keeps people/players on their toes. I'm just really hoping that Marauders will get some love sometime soon as well and hopefully they will have a space in PVP again.

[@BerraLJ]

If i wanted to be on my toes i would get married. I am an industrialist don't need my ships to be even easier to kill, all while making it harder to replace that with the ore nerfs. And no i don't fly supers or titans and no i don't have a standing fleet or super cap to come to my aid.

[@allthatishere]

​@Crixus Maximus If the Blackout has taught me anything, it's that this community isn't as hardcore as all of the story articles about the happens in the game suggest it is. I can't believe this is the same community that coined "adapt or die" and "Don't fly what you can't afford to lose." So many of you guys are easily some of the biggest whiners I've seen in any game I've played. Seriously, fucking yikes.

[@allthatishere]

@Crixus Maximus Fucked over without a fight? Your not even willing to fucking *TRY.* You sound just as lazy as those nullsec carebears that cried about the Blackout. "Change means I have to actually try, fuck that!" Just face it, you guys are complete fucking pussies, and your playing the wrong game. Just give up and move on. No ones going to even notice your gone, and this isn't a assumption.

[@DigiCube4]

“Even in pve” YOU HAVE MY ATTENTION

[@matrixarsmusicworkshop561]

Lol right

[@TheRussellStover]

Interesting. So ganging in high sec on a highly armored transport is going to be 20% easier.

[@Jintaan]

A bit more than 20% for DSTs, due to them relying on near-max resists when being used - But for T1 haulers, Orcas, Mining Barges, yup.

[@gamingguruoz]

good for the tingame economy

[@tonywankum482]

I can't believe you didn't mention the massive nerf to Deep Space Transports and how they are so much more venerable to HS ganking than they were before with heated resists. This has huge implications to hauling anything of value in HS not in a freighter. I spent (not too long ago) 800 mil on a DST that went from 445k ehp heated, to 150k ehp. Hauling billions in a DST just doesn't seem smart anymore with ganker's guns increased and no buff to the DST. Good video! thanks for sharing.

[@terryd8692]

Suicide gankers will be loving this patch. Is that another plan by CCP to remove isk from the game?

[@Jintaan]

I wasn’t aware DSTs were so heavily impacted, thanks for letting me know - Can’t find all the implications on things that are as wide reaching as the Great Resist Nerf

[@FlameDarkfire]

Terry D Burn Jita is gonna be fun this year.

[@wtf22playa56]

People need to realize these changes are directly related to the moon nerf (aka trit nerf). CCP are trying to dwindle people's stockpile of ships and minerals and a resists nerf and damage buffs are an easy way to that. I believe once these levels are down to CCP's liking, then you'll get that redistribution phase for minerals...then maybe you might see another pass made to resists and damage. Basically, there is too much trit in the game atm...so we can only wait and so what happens, and people will need to adjust to that.

[@felixdumbravescu2725]

Soooo by making ships even more expensive, making people less inclined to fight and lose they're ships, i don't see this as an incentive to keep fighting and playing if the risk outweighs the reward.

[@wtf22playa56]

@@felixdumbravescu2725 And that's the downside of these changes, anyone who is more of a passive player, risk adverse or simply cant afford losses this is a good time to have a break from the game. Its all about adaption to the changes, some ppl will like it, others will hate it. As for myself, i've already had to adjust my passive playstyle (cost me 7bil isk to setup it) but if all goes well i'll get that back in no time. If not however and these changes are more damaging then first thought i'll have to start unsubbing most of my accounts.

[@verios44]

WTF22 Playa and by the time the redistribution phase kicks in, the only players that will be left are the botters. Industrialists are already not doing a thing. People with caps have mothballed them. Soon even battleships will be mothballed. Making things artificially scarse, then adding a nerf that makes ships more easy to blow up is not surgical. Its not even a hammer strike. CCP just nuked their own game and dont even care.

[@thorveim1174]

There is ONE category of ship that saw a durability increase.. hull tank battleships. Not only is hull tanking itself untouched, but battleships got a durability buff on top. in small gangs, I guess we will be able to see more of them as a result, as they saw nothing but buffs

[@caliclark737]

Kiting ships are for sure going to benefit from this, along with suicide gankers thanks to the close range brawling buff.

[@MrSpruce]

I'm glad other people understand it :P

[@Jariid]

good video thanks

[@robertmunroe9635]

it made wormhole combat sites harder. the fear of a 3rd party was already there and now most of the passive fit rattlesnakes will take more damage, and their heal will stay the same

[@Emperor9992001]

If they want to see short range, high DPS Battleships brawling it out then the ammo buff wasn't the right way to go about it.They should buff the HP of all non-logistics ships (the nerf to logi was needed) or nerf the DPS of long range ammo to give incentive to use those ships.

[@SzesciennaGeometria]

11:00 wow, now thats what i call fancy orca flying

[@FlameDarkfire]

SzesciennaGeometria Keyes’ Loop!

[@theethicsofliberty4642]

Surgical Strike Patch There is Nothing Surgical about the Resistance Modules Nerf ! CCP could have used a Scalpel and changed only the ships that CCP believes to have too much Bonus, HP or Resist ... But CCP used a Hammer and is now just watching the discontent of those who were collateral damage of said objective. I would prefer a small Sub-Capital fight to last longer and not to end quick. I still think CCP should Rollback the Resist Modules Nerf and continue with a ship-to-ship balance !

[@darkestkhan]

Quadruple amputation is also s kind of surgery :D

[@edwardsolomon1951]

A fleet of tier 1 atrons, some command dessies for booshing and Deimos would land on top and split and split a munnin fleet.

[@Drrolfski]

I can imagine SoCT ships making somewhat more sense in the meta now.

[@jk7878]

Honestly please do more of this. There is no point CCP just posting stat changes in patch notes and thinks everyone understands what those changes actually mean.. i want to know what it really means what and why gets affected from what it was and what it will be. Not everyone is a nerd or theorycrafter. It still think for newer players your vids are still perhaps a little too jargony that they may not understand. Keep this up tho its great man

[@kiromancer]

Do you think Ccp understands what the changes mean? Cause I don't.

[@jk7878]

@@kiromancer well thats another question of course 😂

[@matrixarsmusicworkshop561]

@@kiromancer lmao XD

[@disekjoumoer]

Something that few have discussed is the effect on new and alpha players doing missions. The T1 resist mods were already underwhelming and are now basically a waste of slot space. Given that there are lot of these players in highsec, I think that CCP might well lose some customers over this.

[@Drrolfski]

Mission running was already a joke since alphas got nerfed into the ground. In the end, CCP really doesn't know what to do with their new players. Alpha is just a very painful Eve experience and you can completely forget about newbros committing to relatively expensive subscriptions of a game they have absolutely no clue of.

[@Drrolfski]

@Ben A What part of "relatively" didn't you understand? Let me spell it out for you: compared to other games, Eve is undeniably expensive. Also, monthly subscriptions to play a single game are largely a thing of the past. This makes Eve an extremely tough sell, especially to new players. CCP knows this, which is why they introduced alpha. But because alpha is not proper f2p and Eve's NPE still sucks to begin with, it hopelessly fails as a way to attract a wider audience that keeps the game playing.

[@Drrolfski]

@Ben A You're missing the point: What you think of the value of Eve is completely irrelevant, it's about what the average new player thinks. And for them, $60 for only 4 months of playing is absurdly expensive.

[@Drrolfski]

@Ben A Again, you're completely missing the point. This is simply NOT how the average new player thinks when he decides if he should "buy" Eve. Whether you think that is reasonable or not is irrelevant. Plexing your account is an unknown concept to them. These are people that are typically used to spend no more than $40,- for a triple-A PC game ($60 is what casuals and console players spend) and then can keep playing it forever. They are used to subscriptions being something you at best pay for optional seasonal content, not for some core game. This makes Eve an incredibly tough sell for them compared to other games, that are either f2p or one-off investments for the core game. And even if they would be informed enough and follow your way of thinking of plexing their account, then they would be for sure get burnt out and leave the game. Plexing your account is generally a horrible idea for most players, especially the newer ones.

[@Drrolfski]

@Ben A "Eve will only cost you 60,-" is complete bullshit. Grinding for your monthly subscription simply feels as mundane work for most players and not a game at all. It has nothing to do with what they want do in this game. As a result, they burn out/leave the game or end up paying for their subscription. Either way, "Eve will only cost you 60,-" hasn't worked, AT ALL. Mind you, I've done this myself for a while and it's an absolutely horrible experience. Especially if you know that doing a real daytime job will earn you your monthly subscription in only 15 minutes or so. Just paying for Omega is absolutely the way to go for Eve Online but as a result, it is an expensive game compared to other games and therefore a tough sell to newer players.

[@nicholasroach880]

Seems like some people are gonna wish that they invested in battleship production.

[@JustinCase-ey4ok]

It doesnt seem that T2 cruise or heavy short range were included in the ammo change. Beyond that the changes atleast from the mission/emerging perspective seem rather small. I run a Rattlesnake and a Golem mainly, and atleast through level 3 missions ive seen little change in difficulty.

[@Jintaan]

Cruises are a long range weapon system so their close range ammo didn’t get the buff

[@anthonykent00]

1. Regardless of anything else, I like buffs to battleships. It feels like they aren't even part of the meta when they are supposed to be the apex of subcapital ships. 2. Let's make sure we see the big picture. Bloodier fights are fun and will engage a lot of players. It will also create a larger isk-sink for fighting in an already inflationary production economy. Good with the bad, I guess.

[@villelavikka7403]

This is you regulation mandated 'ship dieing is not isk sink in terms of the whole economy' post. If you intend to mean effect on the player losing the cost that was sunk into the ship maybe don't use the term 'sink' because it has a clear economical meaning.

[@toysoldier46552]

If that's the case, then the drake doctrine may come back along with the t3's for support. With these nerfs they just made missiles better :)

[@williamnicholson8133]

It works did it last night when our rapid light cerbs couldnt break our targets tank. Came back in ham drakes with logi and a fuck ton of dual web hecates. They did not hold lol

[@toysoldier46552]

@@williamnicholson8133 Nice :)

[@evetrader67]

next big step to destroy a running game

[@verios44]

EVE has been on a death spiral ever since skill Injectors were introduced. As far as im concerned.

[@Drrolfski]

Depending on levels of salt, people have been saying this game is getting destroyed basically since it launched.

[@Drrolfski]

@Crixus Maximus Except the whole Eve works has never crashed down. Not even during Jita Burn. Devs do listen (eventually) and players will always come back. If I were you I would hold up your crusade for a while until it becomes more clear how these balance changes will play out. By then you actually have gameplay proof to support your case and more players will likely be behind you then. But that's just me.

[@verios44]

rolf ski while I cannot disagree with you, I know a few 03 players eho thought EVE was dead a long time ago, super salty. This change though makes the ones they quit over seem meaningless though, in scope.

[@AngelosBourdakis]

I really enjoy your videos and the coverage you give, I really apreciate it as a new player. My question is: Why are you not playing the game though?

[@Jintaan]

I've been playing the game for 10 years now, a lot of the day-to-day activities in the game like making money, or camping gates/small gang roams don't appeal to me any more. I still get out there in fleets and solo PvP every week, but I've basically become some weird PvP only casual player, as opposed to leading a coalition and it's daily operations. It'd probably be more accurate to say "I have a more healthy relationship with playing EVE", to be honest, but that'd be an insult to a lot of the guys watching :P

[@AngelosBourdakis]

@@JintaanThanks for answering, that explains my question greatly. Thanks a lot, I understand you. Must be a feeling of getting lowkey tired but still loving and appreciating the game I suppose. Cheers and have a nice weekend.

[@Jintaan]

@@AngelosBourdakis More than anything I appreciate the community of the game - It's truly a unique experience, thanks to the single shard, as everyone you know is someone you might run into in game. I've met a lot of people who I'd consider close friends through that :)

[@psionicdongpunch]

I just came back last week after a year gone and immediately lost my abyss sacrilege in a fucking t3 lmao now I know why!

[@Jintaan]

F

[@AZzalor6632]

I think overall the changes are pretty nice, but the one thing i do not like at all is further buffing the bomber dmg. Bomberfleets are already very annoying to deal with as they can drop basically everywhere with nearly no counter to that drop. Now with extra dmg and less hp on caps will make dropping bombers like bombersbar does even stronger. Sadly that is a playstyle i do not think is good for this game.

[@terryd8692]

Bomb damage reduced by 20%.Have I missed something?

[@AZzalor6632]

@@terryd8692 Bomb dmg is not even used against capitals most of the time. You use a big fleet of bombers with torpedos and use void bombs, which are not really affected by the bomb change. It's a big buff of bomber vs cap fleets like bombers bar is doing them.

[@terryd8692]

@@AZzalor6632 So is there a buff to bombers or just the caps are weaker?

[@AZzalor6632]

@@terryd8692 A buff to rage torpedo dmg, which directly increases the dps of bombers

[@terryd8692]

@@AZzalor6632 Got it, I missed that. Thanks

[@sweatter8213]

what about a new ship like the interdictor that bubbles but the bubble is a giant web not scram?

[@l2tracker]

FAXes are now completely cap unstable with Ninazu being utterly useless as it doesn't have any cap stability at all.

[@williamnicholson8133]

I know i just fit a sneaky 5 cap neut ninazu for fast ganks and then 2 weeks later nope

[@verios44]

tzarbg123 cap chain doesnt work in triage.

[@zeuszivonencia3068]

Did i hear a cat Hiss???

[@Duck-ku9gx]

7:58 YEEY more multiboxing

[@ritzbitz11]

interdiction web bubble

[@Stimy42069]

Win eve, stop logging in.

[@dune102]

Fewer ships will now be required to alpha the enemy fleet off the field, and with lower resists, the logi will be less effective in prolonging the battle. We want fleet battles to last longer, to be dependant upon the FC's skill in manoeuvring the fleet, and everyone performing their role well, not to be over in an instant! All those poor new players struggling to do level 4 missions with low shield and armour skills, and now 20% less resists.....uuuuugh! All big Alliances have either docked up or are being very careful with their capitals until a counter to Dread bombs can be devised. CCP nerfing instead of improving. Did they forget that games are supposed to be fun?

[@darkestkhan]

New players shouldn't be running L4 missions anyway... they make less isk than they would if they did L3 - you do need support skills to run L4.

[@dune102]

​@@darkestkhan Then I guess a lot of players currently running L4 missions prior to "Surgical Strike" without L5 support skills will now have to downgrade to L3 and just like it or lump it. Well done CCP :)

[@dune102]

​@Crixus Maximus Yeah, if it stops general PVE then it will go the same way as the blackout as people will just say 'This isn't fun' and not log in. All I can say at the moment is that it has halted all capital PVP until people figure out if its worth undocking supers and titans anymore, in the left hand side of the Eve Universe, that I spend time in. Whether CCP care about that we shall have to wait and see, if people unsub capital chars then it might focus their mind.

[@dbryant965]

Good talk, but that undock perspective is making me nauseous... ...or maybe it's just the beer.

[@matrixarsmusicworkshop561]

Right? It should be from the side, this is spooky... And too close

[@BlueEyesGaming]

The main thing you've said that i disagree with. is that the resist nerf means burning down targets rather than volleying them is the way to go. Honestly. this buffed muninn/loki.. Again. Less resist = less tank to eat that volley. and reps will be as impactful as ever due to just sheer number of logi people always bring, theres just more CHANCE to double tap with ferox or other rail platforms. agreed on sig/speed tank ships coming out on top here. again. muninn got buffed, AGAIN. Glad to see the support fighter nerf. it was fucking REQUIRED or any nerf would of just been empty promises. Agreed on the resist nerf helping people kill supers under the umbrella, hammer is still too easily dropped. give cyno inhib buff/fix please ccp! the cap booster nerf is perfect, so glad it finally happened. FAX was a cancer that needed a ballkicking. I disagree on the battleship buff not being helpful For the small scale. the lock buff is HUGE. a set of hornet ec's can literally permajam you, just by pure lock time. The things battleships need. more cargo. and my "5th mid or utility high" rule. the lock buff is 3rd thing but they did that now! :D I also disagree on the brawling buff tho. in the small scale that i play around. if you can get a target in brawling range, in a fit built for that scenario, its a BEAUTIFUL change. it does nothing to fix the single cancer boat of that small scale (loki) but it does nicely promote full dps yeet fleets (Squishies hecates, my chainsaw Stabbers) with 0 fucks and all the dps. This patch is great, even the parts that aren't perfect. this level of change was and is NEEDED to keep the interest and shake up the stale meta before it solidifies. the one problem that EVE has had for the last 4 years.

[@chocol8milkman750]

Loki explicitly got an massive nerf to power-grid in this patch. (wasn't mentioned in this video)

[@JimmyBarca]

50% cut in super/titans ehpmat least on my avatar from like 45 mil ehp to 25

[@endeyfire]

*abnormal fan squealing noises*

[@BerraLJ]

My fax lost 140k ehp and dropped from stable to 7m with the loss of 2 boosters, thanks for that. And to add insult to injury the mother %TR#TT red dots are still there, seriously why the f do we need that crap, put in a toggle i am not 5 or blind i know when i have something new in my cargo hold or hangar in station %¤#&¤%. As for like or dislike, well from my industrialist gameplay, now in low sec(add previous nerfs of ore and such) i find 0% good in this patch.

[@BerraLJ]

@romaneeconti02 Well my account is about to run out of Omega time and i might just let it.

[@matrixarsmusicworkshop561]

Ohh... That's what the res dots are lol. More like cargo notifications to me... And yeah annoys me too

[@briaijuioji9486]

My cheap gank polarized cat have now more than 1000 DPS, lol and my maurodor lost huge resist and ehp ,gj CCP korean style EVE ,time to take break from EVE

[@verios44]

Crixus Maximus lol I have had all 4 of my accounts unsubbed and not logged in since the Cyno changes (the force recon, blops one) And been following EVE updates wondering if it will be good to resub back up. And every single patch video that answer is NOPE. This one is probably the final nail in the coffin though.

[@verios44]

Crixus Maximus plus unless you only live in hisec or low and have never seen it, the botting community is still alive and well, was bigger than ever last I looked. Im just gonna simply say that sooner or later Singularity will look exactly like Serenity did before it was shut down.

[@verios44]

Crixus Maximus the example you gave of cops/CCP “ocassionally” doing something reminded me of my other major gripe with CCp. Techniclly they ban RMT and if your cought doing it you are perma banned. That is their “official” position. Unofficially they dont care. Ocassionally ban a highly influencial player for it, but thats it. All those T1 frigs you see with plex killmails, 99% chance that is an RMT transaction. Its the way to anonymonously transfer the plex to the purchaser without a miney trail. The purchaser waits at the designated spot, the ship containing the plex is blown up by an alt, and the purchaser collects the dropped plex, flies to the nearest station and vaults it. My biggest issue with botting is the culture it brings. Lets say you choose to bot your rorqual. You have it set to scan for anomolies and mine certain ore types in a paticular order. Once the ore bay is filled, log off, or go to the ststion. With a good enough script its sadly too easy. You just mined your super in a week and put zero real effort into it. The result is you have no appreciation for that new asset. You do not care if it lives or dies stupidly. You can just bot your way to another one. The mindset is broken. Your supposed to earn that goal and feel pride for it. I still remember my first ever capital ship, circa 2014. It was an Archon, spider tanked for the era. I worked for 3 years getting the necessary supporting skills, and eventually the cap skills to use it. I also ran incursions for a month just to afford it. (The carrier wasnt the only purchase, ships for Nulli secunda wars were eating into that money too). I still have that Archon to this day, even though I dont play the game anymore, assets like that I could never sell.

[@verios44]

Crixus Maximus speaking of investments, I know a player, my last CEO actually. He is a supercap builder. Owned 8 rorquals, and had three of his own fax on standby when he mined, and 3 others as cynos for fast jumpouts if needed. Thats 14 alts running at once. He paid for 12 of them through plex. Besides the ships, he had BPO’s all at ME10 for all the cap components and every single cap besides faction ones. 80+ bil invested in mining assets alone and a unimaginable amount invested in researched bpo’s. He has now completely quit eve, because his way of life is shattered, and his physical assets are now soo unwanted, even if he tried to liquidate will probably get 30% value, max. That is the saddest bit of these nerfs and shortages.

[@verios44]

Crixus Maximus yea he made all his ISK through capital construction contracts. Alliance needed 50 dreads, he could do it. Somebody wanted a super? He was one of the fairest priced builders. People like that who are extremely specialized in one facet of the game cannot simply pack up and go to low sec for example. Getting ME10 BPo’s alone is many years of time invested.

[@IGetWicked]

Lol its like ccp sabotage their own game.....

[@spectator59]

Yet another nerf-heavy patch. Yuck. CCP's entire approach to game balance is badly broken, and has been for years. I don't know who they think their customer base is, but they are continuing to do everything they can to drive players like me away.

[@nikkidalyeeveetrainer3666]

in other words brawl is officialy dead more kitting bs

[@DarkskiesSiren]

Nikki Daly not if you have hero tackle like in that one trailer that burns right at an enemy fleet and doesn’t get alpha and then you realized he was at 130km not over 150, so he just dies. So then your guys say omfg let’s use our micro jump drives what were we thinking! But you were still 50km off target so you are forced to approach. Then you realize you lost 40% of your fleet to the alpha of ranged nano ships so you disengage. You know what, I think maybe you’re right hahah

[@nikkidalyeeveetrainer3666]

@@DarkskiesSiren lol yes but i solo braw with dreks and ikis i never have hero takle around :p