USS Scorpion SUBLOSS SUBSUNK

[@thomaspusateri2028]

I strongly recommend Bruce Rule's book "Why the USS Scorpion (SSN589) was lost". It is a reanalysis of the SOSUS data. Very technical but very good.

[@genec2235]

Came here to say the same thing. Bruce Rule gives a very good analysis of the SOSUS data. He states this is why we lost Scorpion, as a matter of fact and is quite definitive with his analysis.

[@frederickmiles327]

Rule is a Briitsh engineer deeply interested in supporting the concept of nuclear deterence and the general view of John Kerry and Obama who were later deeply interested in denying the Russians shot down MH370 on the day in March 2014 Putin and the Russian parliament rubber stamped the invasion of Crimea, Rule claims the loss of the Scorpion is related to the reasons for the loss of the ARATR1700 which is hardly credible

[@thereissomecoolstuff]

I was 8 living in base housing in Norfolk. There were a couple of families affected. They stayed about 3 months after she was declared a loss then they moved away. Very sad. You didn’t mention that they have to dive on the wreck to monitor the radiation levels from the reactor indefinitely.

[@allangibson8494]

Radiation decays. It’s just a very long time (but then no-one is going to be spending much time there anyway).

[@thereissomecoolstuff]

@@allangibson8494 I think they check it once a year. Send an ROV down and take a water sample.

[@johnryan8533]

They don't dive on it, they lower sensors. Any radioactive fuel that leaks will stay on the bottom because it's heavier and tungsten than anything else, including lead

[@thereissomecoolstuff]

@@johnryan8533 I realize that. It was figurative. With increased ocean temperatures we may see some different thermal dynamics from the deep sea.

[@Curtislow2]

I remember my Dad coming home and being extremely upset after the Thresher sank. He was on the USS Ethan Allen (SSBN-608) under Captain Paul L. Lacy, Jr., commanding Blue Crew. I think this was a turning point in my Dad's life.

[@byronharano2391]

WOW! I could never be a Submariner. Thank you for sharing your Dad's experience. Dolphins are earned.

[@warrenbrenner4972]

@@Curtislow2 I remember seeing a plastic model kit of the Ethan Allen at the hobby store about 1965.

[@Curtislow2]

@@warrenbrenner4972 I remember Dad and I building one. It sat on the top of the kitchen cabinets in between build times. But I was all of 6 or 7 so I just remember watching. LOL!

[@AmericanWanderers]

I was on the Scamp, same class, in the Scorpion. We used to sit on the Mk 48 while waiting to eat. I was a nuke ELT. Those boats originally had a 3 bladed prop which made is very fast but very noisy those were replaced with 5 bladed props, slower but less noisy. I don;t recall having that many problems on the Scamp nut this was years later and maybe they learned a lesson or two. The only nonrate on board was the cooks helper. He probably operated the trash tube. As for the Soviet theory. I mention this in an earlier video, a Chief in Vllejo nuke school was spreading the Soviet story. Probably a seatale. But as for the Sosus data, well we all know that the Navy lies and conceals data when it suits them. There was supposedly more photos, kept classified, that show hull damage from an explosion. The released report was also said to be heavily redacted.

[@MrNb131]

I once worked with a guy who was on the Scamp. Smartest engineer I've ever worked with. Really fun guy. I used to bug him with submarine questions and he refused to tell me. One time I said "Ed, it was 30 years ago, I'm not gonna tell anyone!" and he said "how do I know your not an agent?" It was the highest complement he ever gave me. 😂

[@AmericanWanderers]

@@MrNb131 Yeah when you get out they don't tell you that you can tell all even after the boat has been converted to razor blades. Which the Scamp was.

[@hrdley911]

@@AmericanWanderers Yes, at that point in the cold war, I can envision a situation where both governments would agree to cover up an "incident". We know it's happened many times from 1946 through 1991. I would like to see a through examination of the wreck, especially the hull. No conspiracy intended. I would just like to see more proof.

[@AmericanWanderers]

@@hrdley911 Well since it made that nook about cold war subs, an in the San Diego paper, I guess I can talk about it. The second boat I was on, the Pintado, ran head on into a Russian boat right outside Petropavlosk. Both sides covered it up until it showed up in the San Diego paper. Passive sonar does not work that well head on and the recording of the comments inside the sonar room were something to hear. The report in the paper supposedly torpedoed our very ambitious Caption's hope for a star or two,

[@hrdley911]

​@@AmericanWanderers@AmericanWanderers Thanks for the info and your service! 🇺🇸

[@GTGibbs]

Former OT3 here. Great content. Sosus Lofar, TASS & Stass are all part of our job. Mid 70’s timeframe. We had printed displays of both US SSN’s events. I’ve had a look at one in our library. Very erie when viewed in hindsight. Thank you for sharing this. I had no idea that early stass had to be offloaded before porting, and then reloaded before going on patrol. Fascinating, thanks Sir.

[@JohnSmith-gb5vg]

My dad was stationed on Ascension Island in 67-69, while in the Air Force supporting NSA operations there. He said acoustics systems run by those guys and the navy guys, picked up the sub break up which is why the USN had a known rough area to conduct their search.

[@dmikulec]

Read Blind Man's Bluff.

[@jamesweldon9726]

@@dmikulec Another good one is "The Silent War", by John Piña Craven. you might have to special-order it, but it's worth it

[@arioch2112]

My father in law was assigned to the Scorpion for about two weeks, no one looked at his height when signing his orders as a corpsman. Big Poppa was 6 foot 7 inches tall...

[@brucelytle1144]

Yeah, they are designed for a 5' 10" figure I was 6' 1" when I worked on subs. Lotta nicks in my scalp! 😅 I'm 72 and 6' now, maybe that would work?!😅

[@boomhaueroo8703]

😂. My 6'4" brother joined the Navy. I said, "Great! You're tall, go for carriers." He said, "I'm going subs." I said that was "less great. At least go boomer." He said nope, " I want fast attack." I just shook my head. When he came home after his first deployment to the med... boy howdy it took him a while to stand up straight. He had this crazed, almost caged like look in his eyes. 😉

[@tori8380]

Excellent background info!

[@nathanworthington4451]

Blah blah blah

[@Kroggnagch]

I bet he likes it when you call him Big Poppa... then proceeds to throw his hands in air, wavin em around as if he just does not care...

[@matthewshannon6946]

I was 7 years old when she was lost. I was in school in Norfolk. My grandfather worked at the shipyard. When this happened, many of my classmates had family on the Scorpion...the shock and sorrow was palpable among the students, but I was too young to really understand what had happened...

[@norseman5041]

I was on a Norwegian sub, where we (I) once experienced huge leakage from our garbage / sewage shoot. If I had not reacted as quick as I did I would not be typing this today. Managed to secure the inner hatch before the shoot was full of water, as everyone know, you cannot compress water, and as soon as it would have been full, I would not have been able to put the hatch down and lock it. Even with the air went open, it would not have been enough to evacuate the pressure from the incoming water as it was way to small.

[@wraithette01]

Thank you for a balanced, informative video on the USS Scorpion - no tinfoil hat stuff, just a solid presentation. Thank you for your service and thank you for your efforts in all of your videos.

[@karlbrundage7472]

A couple of thoughts: The lead-acid battery (Guppy-1 Mod c) evolves hydrogen during normal discharge as well as during a charging evolution. That H2 is removed from the atmosphere via the CO/H2 burner, which converts CO into CO2 and converts H2 into H2O via a catalyst. The H2O (water) drains into the AMR (Aux. Machinery Room) bilge and is eventually pumped overboard. The CO2 is captured in the CO2 Scrubber and pumped overboard. Also, though the loss of the Scorpion occurred nearly 8 years after Thresher, SUBSAFE had not been fully implemented in the fleet and boats like the Scorpion, built before Thresher were not built to the SUBSAFE standard and had yet to be retrofitted in a major yard-period.

[@acars9999]

Great video. Thank you. 1968 was a rough year for submariners

[@mikecyanide7492]

K129

[@John-jl9de]

Ex Submarine sailor here, 1970 to 1976. We pray for their souls and sacrifice. Subsafe keep us safe and appreciate our Navy’s approach to new construction.

[@omg31693]

I haven’t personally done the deep dive on this, but what Blind Man’s Bluff laid out with the bad torpedo batteries causing a warhead to cook off seemed like a good explanation. There seemed to be a lot of supporting evidence about the batteries catching on fire and the controversy surrounding them.

[@DeltaTeamSTARS]

Having just listen to the book a week ago, I came to the comments to look for anyone talking about those batteries.

[@davidb9039]

1 Full Power Hour = Reactor is run at 100% for an hour. So 4 hours at 25% is 1 EFPH (Effective Full Power Hour) When I was in I think they were logging Rx Pwr every 15 minutes, but I suspect it's digitally logged now.

[@kotori87gaming89]

Ha, you think the Navy would pay for fancy digital log-taking equipment when they've already got perfectly good sailors with pens and paper?

[@nukegator7274]

There is actually a good reason to manually record log readings. It helps to ensure that the crew is actually monitoring critical system parameters to ensure safe operation and detect any adverse trends such as increasing bearing temperatures, etc.

[@_Alfa.Bravo_]

May their souls rest in peace

[@spiff1003]

I really appreciate your sub-talk. It is a secretive world which intrigues me a lot, but hard to get basic insight into. Access to this world has improved somewhat, like your videoes and also some words of the this guy named Craven or something like that. He obviously was well seasoned in this kind of warfare too. So thank you for informing us. Let's hope that you don't reveal anything classified by accident. :)

[@PeterDavid7KQ201]

You're thinking of John Piña Craven

[@KevinBalch-dt8ot]

@@PeterDavid7KQ201 - Craven applied probabilistic estimates into the search strategy. Now standard approach in search for missing vessels, planes etc.

[@andymontemayor175]

Man first Thresher and then scorpion those were rough times for submariners back then!

[@rdfox76]

One thing you can say for certain about the maximum range quoted for any sonar system: It is most assuredly *not* the maximum range it can be effectively used at. Whether it's lying high or low depends on the system and who's quoting, but any unclassified number is going to be lying through its teeth.

[@milwaukeeroadjim9253]

Even in early 70s TDUs were a problem on boomers. The valve shop was referred to as the TDU shop on my tender. USS SIMON LAKE HT2

[@Oksobasically2]

And the messed up part is its the fault of the tdu operator most of the time. Without getting into specifics there is a key step in the procedure before you put cans in that must be done but often it gets forgotten.

[@ats89117]

I worked with Bill Shanahan, the designer of the WLR-9 at Norden Systems in Melville, NY a long, long time ago. He was a colorful character but definitely not a madman...

[@shaider1982]

The mention of the Mk14 reminded me of a video from Drach on the Mk14, which was a disaster for the USN early in WW2. It wasn't retired until the early 1980's.

[@tamlandipper29]

Fellow Drachinifel enjoyer

[@Josh-hr5mc]

Always loved the sub briefs. Keep them coming

[@Jon6429]

Ten inch pipe a hundred feet down, that's a lot of water.

[@gregorylyon1004]

A thousand gallons a second.

[@palukens]

? My Pops served on the USS Sea Poacher with SubRon 12 Key West, could you possibly cover Balao Class life and operation someday? Thanks for all you do!

[@williamscroggins9627]

I was stationed at FTC Newport, Rhode Island at the time of this incident. There were all kinds of rumors at the time. At that time I was a Seaman Apprentice.

[@paaltandberg5229]

Blind mans bluff is a good read that first showed some insight on what went on behind the scenes with the loss of the Scorpion. But "The Silent War" by John Pina Craven is a must read which supplements Blind Mans Bluff.

[@jonqualey2204]

Very good video. The theories of Soviet envolvment run wild. There were books written of these. "Scorpion Down" speaks of the whole sinking incident being recorded by SOSUS, which included a Soviet torpedo sound signature. "All Hands Down" speaks of a Soviet Ka-25 helicopter possibly being involved. This is entertaining reading, albeit dubious.

[@dmikulec]

There was also a novel called "To Kill The Potemkin" which has a fictionalized account of a similar sub that sunk in 1968. There is also the fiction book "Torpedo!" which was pretty good.

[@bobkohl6779]

Good comprehensive coverage Aaron

[@raymomdpryll6146]

on the sornar display slide , the BQR-21 is the one on the left, with the 3 dcrt displays and the one on the right is the BQR-7

[@dariolinder4508]

I have a question about the technical brief that you gave at the beginning. You said that these early towed arrays had to be mounted and removed by a tug and they couldn't be retracted by the sub in the field. What was procedure if the sub had to go evasive? Was the towed array cut, or could it handle top speed maneuvers?

[@nukegator7274]

Towed arrays do restrict the maneuverability of the submarine somewhat when deployed. Modern subs can retract the towed array while underway. One thing not mentioned is that subs also have a floating wire antenna that allows them to receive ULF messages while submerged. Funny story about the floating wire. On one boat I was on (which shall remain nameless) we were using the floating wire for the first time. There were specific precautions that had to be taken when going to periscope depth to avoid cutting the cable with the screw. The Captain would ask the OOD about those precautions prior to granting permission to go to periscope depth. One day during a battle stations drill the Captain took the conn. He took the boat to periscope depth and promptly cut the wire. After that we no longer got asked about the precautions.

[@almirria6753]

What do you think of the planned new expedition down to her with high def cameras & lights to get a better view of the wreck site & survey it. And based on your level of knowledge [which is much greater than mine is] do you think that the log book could ever be recovered?

[@nigeriaroberts678]

Thames river is pronounced with the "TH". So it isnt pronounced like River Thames in UK where the "H" is silent

[@felixcat9318]

When submarines are lost and there are no survivors, nor any indication as to what caused the loss of the vessel, it becomes a mystery! Even more so when the vessels sink below their crush depths and implode! Surely the submarine equivalent of a Ship/Aircraft Flight/Voyage Data Recorder could be fitted to submarines (securely encoded of course). Then, if a loss occured, a Deep Submergence Vehicle or a Remotely Operated Vehicle could be used to recover the Recorder. To have detailed data on the submarine prior to and throughout its emergency would be invaluable to Investigation Teams and to bereaved families.

[@tayloreslick7542]

When I was in grade school my best friend had a pome on the wall of his house. Silent scorpion All he ever said was it was a memorial for his uncle who was lost in a submarine. It wasn't until many years later I heard about the loss of the scorpion. His uncle's last name was Burke

[@fortusvictus8297]

Wasn't a dog-leg turn standard procedure for a submarine to maintain situational awareness? My understanding is submarines would routinely make a 180 to check their wake or blindspots in the sensors.

[@MarkLawrenceKiefer]

It's called clearing the baffles, Hunt for Red October got the Russian version called a crazy Ivan. A 180 works but isn't usually a good tactical decision.

[@dungeonrat]

When the Scorpion left her last overhaul, she was not Sub-Safe certified.

[@gregorylyon1004]

The Naulitus was the only sub safe submarine back then because it was Rickovers baby

[@tertiaryobjective]

The "beeps" radar, that's great, I love the technical-onomatopoeia terms/acronyms.

[@SammyNeedsAnAlibi]

Fellow Bubblehead here (SKC(SS), USN, Ret).... where did you get the info on the TDU? I never heard that before. During my career, the prevailing rumor was the Hot Run theory, and the BS about a Russian boat doing it was just that- BS. Good show, though- BZ! For what it's worth, I was on a 594 (the Haddock) and a 637 (the Pintado) in the late 70's- mid 80's and both boats had CO Standing Orders that the Chop had to be present for TDU Ops to ensure they were done correctly, so what you're saying may have something to do with that... hmmmmmm.....

[@sop2510]

I believe Thresher was lost in 1963.

[@CharlesMcConnell-b7t]

Your explanation of the BQR-21 sonar was not correct. You were describing the BQQ-4 sonar the operator was sitting in front of. It has the wheel. The console to the left of the operator is the BQR -21, it use a joystick to steer the bug to listen and has a waterfall display. Come on Sonarman….

[@johnadams8085]

The Unit on the left in the photo is a BQR-21 but the Scorpion sank 10 years before the BQR-21 was deployed. Most BQR-21 were deployed on the SSBN (Boomers) and several other "special boats". It was all electronic beamforming with 3 CRT displays replacing the burning paper chart of the BQR-2. It did have a small thumbwheel to steer the electronically switched analog beam. The displays showed digitally formed beams and automatic trackers.

[@Allan_aka_RocKITEman]

Great video, Aaron...👍 Despite the depth the sub is at, I wonder if it would be possible to get a very small ROV inside the hull to examine it from the inside? Or did the hull completely implode?

[@dagabbagool2600]

It's wrecked. The engineering and aft spaces "telescoped" into the amidships sections. That violent action ejected the propeller shaft out the back and sheared off the sail. Maybe something could get into the torpedo room through the open escape trunk. I feel like his earlier video from some years ago went into all this and that he skipped a lot on this remake.

[@dougjb7848]

It probably already has happened. We just will never know about it.

[@dwightadams3853]

A reference alluded to by others is the book, Scorpion Down: Sunk by the Soviets, Buried by the Pentagon, The Untold Story of the Scorpion by Edward Offley.

[@pennypoacher6121]

Hey, I hope everything‘s going good. You sound a little sad in this video a God bless what you do and I just want you to know I look forward to watching yours and H I Sutons videos. I love your work.

[@Josh-hr5mc]

Whats fascinating is this hull went to 1530 feet before it collapsed. The technology than shows what is probably possible now. Of course so much is classified for so long

[@Fortunes.Fool.]

Great video, thank you!

[@grapeape7284]

Most of my knowledge of this comes from Blind Mans Bluff which you seem to have some disagreement with. Can you go into more specifics of why you think that torpedo is the least likely mechanical failure?

[@christopherhanton6611]

very good video and your right we don't know. but we do know is it had a lot problems with it

[@Hazmatt3446]

Best I can recall, Nukes were trained it was a battery compartment explosion which makes sense because that was a parameter we could learn from. We were always being harped about Scorpion and Thresher as the impetus for Sub-Safe Standards. Have you done a Sub Brief on Sub-Safe? Would be allowed to? ✌🏻

[@babychuma1]

I read the book by John Pena Craven that discussed finding it. He was pretty invested in the battery hot run because of the membrane in the battery. I did wonder if that was happening why they didn't have more incidents?

[@gregorylyon1004]

Craven was right

[@jameslanning8405]

With so many hull issues, maybe she just imploded, even if she wasn't at crush depth... All it would take, was one bad leak from one of those 'penetrations,' and 'boom!

[@kennethiman2691]

If you have a leaky garbage disposal unit, why wouldn't you discharge trash on the surface? To do it at depth seems unwise.

[@Fred-vy1hm]

There's 100 men on board. Imagine how much trash a family of five generates on a daily basis and multiply it by 20, then realize that a nuclear sub remains submerged for months at a time, that's a lot of trash to stow in an already cramped container.

[@jasonedwards251]

Any thought about the mk37 arming device? Could they have been disarming a mk37. It would explained the smaller than larger explosion sounds heard by the navy. If the arming device somehow detonated outside of the torpedo then detonated the torpedo. May have caused the out ward damage seen in the pics. Just wish we knew

[@TrentFalkenrath]

No way she carried the Mk 14. I heard about those torpedoes from Drachinifel's channel. Sounds like they were a pain in the ass.

[@rdfox76]

By 1944, the problems with the Mark 14 were solved (at least to the same level as all other torpedoes at the time), and as a result, the 14 and derivative Mark 16 remained the standard US Navy sub--launched anti-surface torpedo until the Mark 48 entered service in 1975, with the last Mark 14s being retired around 1980.

[@nukegator7274]

The MK-48 entered service in 1972, I was on the USS Batfish (SSN-681) and we were one of the first boats to get it.

[@gregorylyon1004]

The Mark 14 torpedo didn't even exist yet. The Scorpion was carrying Mark 37 torpedos

[@MrJohndoakes]

29:39 One of the other theories I read is that the submarine was being deliberately run to death as part of a program to see how long an attack submarine could last without major drydock repairs. I think it was probably "Running Critical" by Patrick Tyler, a 1986 book on the issues with building the Los Angeles class of submarines.

[@DaystromDataConcepts]

Weren't the periscope and mast(s) in the raised position as shown on the wreck photos? Wouldn't this suggest they were at PD? If so, and a message could be flashed out very quickly, why no message? Also, I believe the wreck analysis indicated the batteries were damaged in a way consistent with their explosion. So, it does sound like a battery issue, but why no SOS message?

[@TimothyWiley-r2b]

4 boats were lost in '68, Scorpion, a Russian boat, a French boat and an Israeli boat, two assassinations, Tet in Vietnam, it was a really bad year, I was glad one cousin, on the Skipjack, got out and came home okay, but my other cousin was a diver in salvage and he should be okay... but '68 was a terrible and scary year...

[@michaeld308]

I heard they were also ordered to limit their diving depth on transit back home. Not sure what it was but was far lower then normal due to the condition of the sub.

[@jamespfp]

5:15 -- RE: Tugboat and Diver attach the Towed Array; OMG, I never would have guessed that the towed array didn't start out as a piece of equipment that was somehow contained and deployed by the submarine itself. And yeah, I caught on quick that it also means once connected it stayed deployed until the mission was over or an emergency situation demanded cutting it loose. Question! Could the OG towed array be detached while at sea by physically cutting it with explosive bolts and a detonator switch? Or would the sub need to deploy a diver to do that, too?

[@thomasmahoney6567]

I wish you did better on the facts especially the sosus data. This should be your bailiwick.

[@cyphi474]

It was problem with German accustic torpedo by the end of WWII, that it sometimes guided itself on submarine that launched it after losing guidance. Solution was simply stop sub at launch and hope escorts wont find you. Its like throwing bumerang into night. Torpedo could find any target at any time, so it had to be nerve wrecking.

[@RetiredSailor60]

I worked with a lady who lost her father on USS Scorpion. She was 7 years old at the time...

[@copuis]

sooo, in light of some of the things like the capt asking for leaks and dry dock etc etc, what was the finding, and lessons from that, ?

[@flashcar60]

A sub has two values for displacement: surface and submerged.

[@lunaticfringe8066]

The Scorpion was overdue for a major overhaul and only received a partial one prior to her last deployment. The crew took to calling it the "USS Scrap Iron", and apparently one crewmember refused to sail on her, taking a court martial instead, due to his safety concerns.

[@gregorylyon1004]

The Scorpion had already been overhauled.

[@lunaticfringe8066]

@@gregorylyon1004 No sir. It only had a PARTIAL overhaul, not a complete one as it was supposed to have.

[@hypervious8878]

Whats the shelf life of those Mk45s? If _hypothetically_ it was to be recovered, could it still be weaponised?

[@workingguy6666]

How crazy. I just spent hours reading up on the Russian sub loss of the time and what was reportedly recovered.

[@mattwilliams3456]

I’d like to hear your version of the near loss of USS Chopper.

[@samueltaylor4989]

Do they try to recover nuclear torpedoes or let them stay?

[@gregorylyon1004]

Everything stays on the bottom of the ocean

[@idolhanz9842]

Lithium battery run away fire in the battery compartment. I lived in Istanbul Turkey and was 12 years old when this happened and we also saw the mighty E's crew attacked by rioting muslims during shore leave in May 1968.. Coincidently , my mom worked for the Charleston newspaper and she rode offshore on the USS Thresher in spring of 62 when it made a port of call during a shakedown cruise..

[@WxWaterFire]

As others pointed out (From Blind Man's Bluff and others) was not a complete cook off, but a partial low order explosion.

[@frederickmiles327]

Obviously a nuclear submarine loss is a matter of extreme political and strategic sensitivity, as is the speed of anti submarine torpedoes and nuclear submarines. Generally speaking before the introduction of the Mk 48 in the USN which design features were rapidly betrayed to the USSR and PLN it could be asumed that nuclear submarines were faster than any anti submarine torpedo. So it was unlikely in 1968 than an anti submarine torpedo could have caught any nuclear submarine in 1968, other than a Soviet Echo cruise missile sub or an SSN was slowed by mechanical problems . However even the first Soviet SSNs, the Novembers with speeds of over 30 knots may have been faster than most US boats. What happened in May 1968 is partly speculation, but Ed Offley, author of 'Scorpion Down' on the loss of USS Scorpion, is regarded as a credible defence writer and has been honored this year with awards from US Proceedings and associated USNI publications, such as naval history have run Ed Offley articles on the USS Scorpion. Again because of the sensiitivity of the issue I would expect the US official account to involve somewhat changed facts . The USS Scorpion was an intelligence gathering sub with 6 US officers and ratings aboard who could speak Russian, had they surmised that USN sub communications were being intercepted as they were, from shortly after the hijacking of USS Pueblo and John Walkers betrayal of codes to the Soviets, and the Russians suspected the secret was out, a motive for the pursuit and destruction of USS Scorpion existed to protect a potential war winning intelligence and location targeting advantage. The suggestion is I or 2 Novembers were chasing the Scorpion at speed across the Atlantic and either the USS Scorpion shaft detached at speed, or a proximity fused a/s torpedo a MK37/Mk46 or Soviet Replicate blew the propellor and shaft of the Scorpion off as it was designed to.

[@PJ3721]

@30:00 didn’t the US NAVY lie about what actually happened on the USS Thresher? What you were told in sub school and what was actually in the report 50 years later were very different. I’d have a hard time taking their word it was not an attack and that we have all intel on Soviet subs in the area. I wish we could get a hold of the underwater recordings of the explosions on the scorpion and do an analysis video of them. Especially if we could get the 30 seconds before the boom. I assume those microphones can hear a torpedo swimming

[@jameslanning8405]

Didn't the towed array give you sonar listening behind the baffles as well as long distance to either side?

[@johnray7636]

MT1(ss) crossdecked from TM3(ss). Hated the MK37 (electric) and MK16 (hydrogen peroxide). These were famous for hot runs and it was always my fear while on watch.

[@DD-fj2ut]

If the tugs were waiting to meet the Scorpion on the day it was due, then I imagine the families would also be waiting at the pier? If so, thinking about is quite a sad situation.

[@JacksonPlant]

Great job!

[@s.porter8646]

Are you going to do a vid on the bonefish

[@Reepicheep-1]

Wouldn't have an explosion sounded on SOSUS, and therefore ruled out other issues?

[@mrouncervideos2905]

Was it her own torpedo? Was it a Russian sub? We'll be right back with answers from our favorite radar sub boss.

[@anthonylowder6687]

It was a Soviet sub that sank Scorpion….the U.S. and the U.S.S.R. both agreed to do everything possible to keep this quiet over the years. Because as to acknowledge this was to make the tensions of the Cold War to spiral out of control and the American people would press the government to take a retaliatory strike against Russia using nuclear weapons.

[@dmikulec]

@@anthonylowder6687 A college prof who was a former submarine officer told me, "No one is going to go to war because someone was caught screwing around where they weren't supposed to be."

[@robdrummond9313]

@@anthonylowder6687 wearing a tin foil hat? Enough with the conspiracy theory.

[@rprince418]

@@anthonylowder6687 And your proof is...?

[@gregorylyon1004]

It was her own torpedo

[@timneaves519]

I know you like to be precise on this forum so I’m just letting you know the USS Thresher sank April 10, 1963

[@WildBillCox13]

Aaron. With respect . . . I go to Chi Chi's for topredoes grandisimos. The works- extra cheese, rice, onion, and a dash of mustard. Delicioso! Pack a few of those under my waterline and fill my ballast tank with a six pack of Corona and I'm ready for anything! Sorry. Had to do it. Absolutely no offense intended.

[@thevictoryoverhimself7298]

It got revealed/declassified/whatever actually fairly recently that the crew survived for some time in sort of a semi-controlled hovering state long enough for USS Seawolf to come on station and assist in the rescue attempt, attempting rudimentary contact like one-way transmissions to be replied to by banging on the hull across several dives. They lied about this for literally decades, including to people in submarine school

[@jeffreymoon3752]

Hey Arron were you trained as a SPACE tech ? I was 0412 BQQ-5 basic maintence.

[@GeoffreyGodshall]

The last GSSM class. Late '92. Memories...

[@motuit]

I seem to remember a guy named Moon from the ASW base 74/75 time frame. Was that you? Maybe I saw you around bldg 58 or something like that. Been so long I can't exactly place it. But I do remember seeing a guy last name of Moon there.

[@amedv]

I don't understand, why notify families in case of comm loss? Such a news is probably causing more damage than doing any good. Elderly parent might have a heart attack, pregnant woman could lose the child, that kind of things. IMO, families should be notified when all hopes are lost.

[@MarkLawrenceKiefer]

So I asked my wife on this one her credentials are she used to be an ET in the Navy and then she was a spouse married to a bubblehead for 1 WestPac, 2 Med runs, and 1 deployment to the Persian Gulf. She agrees with you. She also didn't like going to the pier in New London and then finding out we were delayed. She is still mad about that 25 years later. I don't know what the correct answer is, the stress of being told there is a problem, or showing up to greet them and they aren't there. My wife has done both and is mad about both.

[@amedv]

@@MarkLawrenceKiefer The delay of arrival is a different scenario from the comm loss, I think. The former could have all kinds of causes. Notifying the family that the boat is running late seems reasonable, with one day of lead time or something like that. Losing the communications is an indicator of severe issue. But again, no point freaking out the family about it until you know more.

[@mrspeigle1]

It may be political in nature, Often hiding information or being perceived to be hiding information can cause serious issues with organizational credibility. Trying to feed people pretty lies even by omission can cause even worse lies and rumors to circulate.

[@curtishaney8721]

I was told by a lot of ASW types that the Scorpion was sunk by the Russians using a helicopter with a torpedo. It was sacrificed with President Johnson approval to make amends for the Russian Sub WE sunk earlier in 1968. The reason was that we wanted the Russians to start talks on SALT 1. They would not sit down with us, until we atoned for that Russian sub.

[@nukegator7274]

Ex-Torpedo Division Officer and Sonar Officer on USS Batfish, SSN-681. The photo with the Mk-37 description is not a Mk-37. The Scorpion could not have carried the Mk-48 torpedo. The Mk-48 was not operational until 1972, four years after the Scorpion was lost. Also, no bow mounted sonars, such as the BQS-4 and BQR-7, could cover 360 degrees due to the fact they cannot hear directly behind the boat. That's why subs routinely maneuver to "clear baffles." Torpedoes is misspelled on the Mk-45 page. The lack of attention to detail is disappointing.

[@Storm-lg4mx]

There has never been a quality picture of either wreck of the Thresher or Scorpion. If the Navy had their way, we probably wouldn't know what the wreck of the Arizona looks like. Quality Pics of the Titanic, much deeper, just terrible puzzle pictures of these two. Classified, Classified, Classified.

[@cheddar2648]

There are none in the public domain, you meant to say.

[@emchodevetkov9438]

a sad story

[@janizzkar]

Hey jive. Did you see they declassified a cia report(redacted a bit still) from the 70s about the russian soks system. Was this a thing still you guys had to keep in mind when you served?

[@warmstrong5612]

I think the Mk 45 was strictly a "we go down together" sort of weapon, like if there is no way the USN Sub is gonna survive an encounter with an enemy fleet that detected it.

[@nukegator7274]

That's pretty much the thought of those that carried them.

[@williamhollis6578]

Scorpion had 6 torpedo tubes? How many is that in metric? 🤓

[@robwernet9609]

What good waa sub-safe when they just ended up bypassing it with scorpion?

[@rjust2297]

Kick ass at least Ia new handler in there? Is Norfolk and Virginia. Kings Bay never heard of it 🤯. I can't wait to see what happens next😂

[@davied5496]

Hey, why no update on the Thresher???

[@gregorylyon1004]

Because the Thresher is on the bottom in pieces. It has been since 1963

[@andromedach]

At what depth was she expected to have been operating at?

[@gregorylyon1004]

1300 feet maximum depth

[@MB-nn3jw]

According to the book "All Hands Down", the author theorises the Russians used a helicopter dropped torpedo, and not submarine launched. The author relies on some apparent USSR officer that admitted to the deliberate incident as retaliation for some other event.

[@johnray7636]

Firmly believe it was a hot run with ejection and circular run

[@gregorylyon1004]

I agree with you 💯 percent

[@hinz1]

So the inside of the ruddder was dry space/air filled? Kinda weird, would have made it wet space, like double hulled soviet subs, so no problems with leaks and much lighter.

[@campingwithcorgis]

They are filled with foam...syntatic? foam.

[@d1bhtxza]

Off going COW and an A Ganger did the TDU shots on my last boat. Other boats I was on…..CPO and a cook.