Lighting Circuits Part 3 - Fans, Motion Sensor Lights, 3 Core & Earth Cable

[@markellison9303]

John's videos have helped on a number of projects, all of which have been successful, due in no small part to the clarity of John's explanations. Thank you.

[@markharrison895]

Excellent stuff John. I was wiring a timed fan in the bathroom and made the error of going straight to the part 3 video. Everyone who describes the wiring for a 3 core fan starts from a ceiling rose. I didn't have one - multiple LED lights. Eventually I went to lighting 1 and gained an understanding of switch, or loop wiring. All I needed to do was find which of the eight wires came from the switch and take it from there.

[@charlescarabott7692]

Great videos. Thankyou Mr Ward. I knew some basic electricity but had many gaps in my electrical knowledge most notably in wiring switches. You videos have now given me a new understanding of how switches are wired

[@tompea501]

thank you for these videos. they have been a massive help to me personally,right now. all the best to you x

[@arebrec]

What a brilliant video. Clear, not too fast and 'showey offy' and extremely helpful. Thumbs up. Thanks for taking the time to do this tutorial.

[@simonthompson3627]

All explained with superb clarity as usual. Thank you John.

[@RossCanpolat]

Brilliant set of videos (1,2 & 3). So many times I've opened up switches and light fittings and I hadn't a clue what those extra cables were doing. It makes perfect sense now. A+++

[@adegokeenirayetan9699]

Great stuff John. Your video is straightforward. I connect an isolation switch for the first time and it work!

[@adhamnoaman1694]

Thank you very much John you made it very simple for me to understand a lot of electric connections, you are an excellent teacher

[@Garciamrcool]

Adham Noaman op

[@amandalynch8026]

Thanks John. I watch all you videos and have learned so much, your uploads are very informative with a nice humour to it. I wanted to ask if in the future you could give us your knowledge on three phase power. Thank you for your effort and time.

[@poolz50]

Superb video. I have watched a lot of the others and none get the balance of practical advice and core understanding. I really hope you continue to do more in the same way.

[@sst206]

JW, I would like to say thank you. Your videos are so clear and easy to understand and I Refer to them frequently. Also enjoy your dry sense of humour which we share. One feedback I would give is when you are drawing out your diagrams it may be helpful to draw circuit diagrams from/back to power source as well as the local cable arrangements so people can understand where the items sit at a circuit level and how they are connected in parallel.

[@williamsdaduk]

This particular video has helped me out on more than one occasion thanks !

[@dennishughes3250]

I think we would get on well JW. You made me smile a lot. Similar sense of humour I think. Excellent video, really informative. Thank you.

[@tellylgeorge]

Very helpful videos thanks John. Interesting what you said about the fuse not being required for the fan as I've recently fitted a fan and I got rid of the old fuse connection (for the sake of tidiness) and joined the wires and tiled over the back box. I did have run a switched live though from the ceiling pull switch as the old fan didn't need one but I ran this behind the new coving. Great instructional videos and advice.

[@Balllsy]

Thank you, I'm considering replacing noisy pull cord switches in my bathroom and kitchen with microwave sensors. This video was very helpful.

[@phunwithphiphi8055]

Thank you John, this has been of immense help to me.

[@simonmartin4599]

I think getting a three pole isolator and putting the fuse only on the line is a good compromise. I found you can get them as a combined unit. The switched line remains unfused. After all it's just controlling the timer circuit. The line is where the fan get's its motor power via an internal relay. This switched timer circuit is therefore less likely to be a source of fault and/or fire.

[@7777777sportbilly]

the most useful informative wiring videos on youtube. Thanks for posting

[@g1fsh]

Nice set of videos John very well explained Thank you for sharing this information.

[@westwonic]

Well done John. Made it so easy for me. Brill !

[@ichabaudcraine2923]

I love dimmers. Great for the bedroom. Bow chicka wow wow. For anyone looking for a decent dimmer for LED lights the British General one Wickes sells for about £8 is decent and has an adjustable minimum output. I had to buy a couple before I found a solid model. (NB. you still gotta be sure your bulbs are dimmable. I've got a load of IKEA ones that are dimmable.)

[@signetulupan]

You are the best teacher!

[@danielnyambi4425]

Hello John, thanks for your informative videos.

[@antanon8380]

Thanks VER,Y much, John; very clear explanations, although your tone of voice makes it all sound ridiculously simple (which it isn't, otherwise we wouldn't have needed you !) .

[@MarcFotheringham]

Hey JW. Thanks for this video. In the process of replacing a “dreadful, manky pullswitch” and adding a fan and one little thing I missed was answered here. Thanks again!

[@davidceredig-evans8772]

Another excellent video. Many thanks.

[@MK-wf1eg]

Hi John, I was wondering if you could explain how to wire a lighting circuit with extra fans and PIR sensors in one circuit

[@michaelhaggar8287]

so good and so clear Just fitting PIr to existing light Thank you

[@Playthell]

First class video's very informative and easy to understand Thank You...

[@2023eddie]

Excellent informative video JW. Many thanks...!

[@nigelcalvert8039]

Hi John brilliant video you are ready easy to follow 👍 im looking to put an extractor fan in my downstairs toilet do you have any videos on how to wire this up . Many thanks Nigel

[@danyeo1490]

Thanks. Brilliant video. I am building an en-suite. Am I able to add a new light (with new switch) by coming off a rose in the middle of the radial? Meaning that I'd be doubling up terminals within it? I guess sort of a 'spur' but not. (And then take an extractor and shaver from one of my new downlamps). Thanks!

[@jwflame]

Yes, you can connect at any point provided the extra wires fit into the terminals.

[@danyeo1490]

@jwflame thanks!

[@dman2881]

Great vid as always! In the case of 1 extract fan serving 4 rooms, is it possible for the fan to run continuously but then boost when the lights are turned on in any 1 of the rooms? Lighting in 2 of the rooms are controlled by manual switches and the other 2 rooms by PIR presence detection. A video with diagrams would be superb!?

[@jwflame]

Yes, the usual way is to have a double pole switch for the lights - one pole switches the light, the other pole switches the fan (or activates the fan boost).

[@bergssprangare]

Thanks John ,you're a great teacher

[@jeremystevens9510]

Thanks for clarifying the colours at the end of the section as well as covering the question of sleeving - most helpful. Would it be expected to add sleeving to an existing older installation (with older colours) when new wiring is added for say a extension? When you make a connection in a lighting box I assume that a "chocolate block" is used? Am I correct in assuming that if a new CU to accommodate the new wiring is installed all the existing circuits will need to be tested and everything documented? Cheers, Jeremy Stevens

[@efremtse6518]

Thank you John l learned a lot and very helpfull

[@malshenton]

thanks John.....a massive help . A big thank you !

[@mojikarimi5717]

Thanks john for sharing your knowledge with us.

[@fukmoney1]

Your videos are amazing. You are helping me so much better than my useless collage teachers. I have my AM2 this november!!! thank you for the help kind sir!! please let me know how i can repay you back!

[@jwflame]

Donations, contributions and similar: www.flameport.com/youtube_channel_info.cs4

[@pangvannes]

Hi John. Thank you for the video. But can I use a dimmer switch for the extractor fan as the one you mentioned in the video?

[@TheChriss45]

Hi John, what happens in a house where there are no ancient style ceiling roses and all click-and-fit? My house has Quickwire lighting connectors (which is all twin core and earth) but my fan isolator and timed fan extractor in the bathroom are of course, three core and earth. Whoever installed it originally simply didn't connect the timer because you physically cannot connect both the permanent live and switched live, to a twin core system. Any ideas?

[@computeraddic675]

Only one thing i say,we in the Netherlands have tubes running in the walls and ceilings.Its a lot easier to get a neutral wire through it.No need for changing a cable,just a wire through it.

[@ichabaudcraine2923]

Hey that's great. Make sure you put the exact same comment on all the videos please!

[@jayjohal6892]

Which type of cable do i use to connect PIR to bathroom fan with run on timer?? Would it be 3 core + earth?? I have no clue! 😊

[@DogsBAwesome]

I wondered why the electrician put different sort of switch for my bathroom fan.

[@pablisimo666]

Hi John, any chance you could do a video on French relay lighting? Multiple switches that act as a pulse latching relay? I can't find any descriptions of their workings on line!

[@andrewspencer3948]

Hi John, I love your videos, they have been so helpful to me over the last few years. I have a question. Is there anyway to connect multiple lights to a switch with out making it a radial circuit?

[@davidjuke2386]

John I've got aproblem got 2 gang lighting box operates 2 ind lights sharing the 3core & E switch wire wired old cable Red com shared with 2 com term 2w blue goes to SWL & yellow 2W goes to Neutral. i porch light connected 1 black to N 1 Red to Loop to hall ceiling light 1 Red to Loop & the switch wire as a bove . Hall light works turns on/ off 2nd porch light stays on all the time seems like switch not operating this light? David

[@peterstiles1]

3:17 'the new evil colours'. HaHa. Did he really say that? I know he doesn't like the new European colours, who does? But evil?! :D

[@AviKhali]

3:19 did he just say "new EVIL colours"? Lol

[@syedgilani9675]

Thank you very much John love your videos learnt so much

[@danstark205]

thankyou, your videos are so informative and that is soooo helpful. Big Kiss

[@andreblake2050]

Absolutely brilliant work John. I do admire your teaching style and yuor simplification of potentially complex material. I find your videos incredibly helpful and easy to follow. The subtle sense of humour is also definitely a bonus. " satanic devices" :) . Keep up the good work.

[@michaelvanderweyden58]

Excellent videos ! thank you

[@CH-en4er]

Great. Thank you.

[@paulmandara232]

great videos but how would you connect an RCD Fcu for a bathroom if there wasn't an RCD at the consumer unit where in the circuit would you install it ??

[@nigelprettyc3]

Excellent and you have a Hammond m100 😎

[@bennyrosado5402]

Awesome 👏 thanks!!!

[@alirezajouzdany971]

How can install motion flood light sensor (PIR) with single pole switch and withough switch and how can adjusted for day and night and just adjust for night. Please help me as soon as possible. That lights need to activated as well or they need to just fix power to them. One trad mark is : 20 watts LedVance motion floodlight sensor. I am waiting to hear from you. Thanks a lots

[@ikballalli5539]

Hey John, im confused with the fan part. In the example of putting separate switches for the fan and light, do you use 2 core and earth from the loop to the switch?

[@Eeroke]

What about those funky double filament light bulbs? Could that thing still be a standard to be be followed? Two hot lines, three possible levels of light.

[@btryo2780]

Hi John, Really love your videos, they are very helpfull. I need to replace ceiling rose in my bathroom with IP44 light but the new bulb holder only has direct connections and no room for other cables that are in exisiting ceiling rose, would I need to use junction box for this and tuck it above the ceiling? i.e. wagabox etc. Thank you for your help.

[@jwflame]

Yes, either screw connections or Wagos etc., all ok as long as they are in a box.

[@56jmack]

Another excellent tutorial.Have you any plans to do a clip on emergency lighting?

[@katherinehenry3950]

Your videos are great, so easy to understand. Thanks. I have a problem that is annoying me, I wonder if you have any helpful ideas? I have a power cable supplying two lights on the path to the house. Both lights have pir sensors attached, both lights and sensors work. Problem is first light comes on, but the second one comes on and instantly turns the first one off, making the steps very dark for anyone walking behind. This has only started since I had to change the light at the end of the power line for a new one. Previously both lights came on when their PIR sensors were tripped and stayed on for their allotted time. I can't work it out!! please help, thanks.

[@5084204]

" This has only started since I had to change the light at the end of the power line " you wired the light incorrectly

[@Clydepatos2001]

Can we put dimmer switch, for dimming the light, and is any problem for extractor fan when dimming?

[@aaronrothwell9026]

can you draw a diagram using two PIR's to turn on an outside light?

[@CbrigBear87]

you need a competent person to intsall such a thing if you cannot work that out for yourself

[@BillsAllotmentDiary]

Hi John. I have a single way switch in the bedroom and I want to put a light in the loft. I have a double switch with separate connectors on the back. If I run a cable directly down from the light to the switch, can I run a neutral from another rose up to the neutral on the new rose then loop back to the donor rose? then just jumper across the two coms on the twin switch and use the blue cable in L1 on the second switch connector using the light end of the blue wire as the switched live? Cheers if so a video or a diagram would be cool Bill

[@5084204]

Presumably, you have an access to the ring light wires from the loft? Why would you like to complicate the wiring so much then? Cut into the ring, fit the light/rose, then run the one live/live-switch wire to the switch you want. Make the connections neat and easy to understand for the next DIYer ;) "If I run a cable directly down from the light to the switch, can I run a neutral..." as you cut into the ring, you will have L and N there. The only thing you send down is L and LS. Just make sure to mark the 'live' and 'live switch' wires with the red tape.

[@warrengray610]

Good John, but the max current/power draw would be limited to the rules governing the lighting circuit, so people shouldn't go supplying a kitchen demand through it. Kind regards Warren

[@jagsingh2028]

Hi John awesome video.. I have spot lights in my bathroom with transformers on them , would I connect into one of them for my extractor fan?

[@asifkhan5436]

which one is black in 3 core and earth as you have two brown. and which terminal do you put black and on isolation switch. thanks

[@jayja45]

Unfortunately some electricians seem to think that because black used to be the colour for neutral, they can use it without sleeving it blue, and keeping as one colour scheme. The same seems to go for older coloured cable, the blue being used for neutral, without any black sleeving.

[@dasy2k1]

All of mine use black for neutral and grey for SL but I always sleeve on the appropriate colour so it shouldn't be a problem. Does look wierd (when the colours first changed and I still have RYB 3+E yet Bn/Bu T+E when I was sleeving the blue in blue.... (and the red and yellow in brown) but at least its unambiguous

[@paulcoates208]

Hello John. Very informative videos. Could you tell me the best way to connect an extractor fan in a bathroom to the lighting circuit? The bathroom light is fed via a single switch which break the live wire. The neutral wire continues direct to the the other terminal in the lamp holder which is the end of the circuit. I would be looking to put in a 2 gang switch instead to control the light and timer fan separately. Any help would be great

[@Blowcrafter]

interesting that in the UK switches usually don't have the neutral in them. In my house (in Germany) they all have twin and earth cables going to them and then another one continuing to the lamp.

[@ratbag359]

the old way here was power feed to light fitting then one 2 core to switch. now we run feed 2 core + earth to switch then 2 core + earth to light and if needed another 2 core + earth to the next switch.

[@stevesnow3078]

Hi john . Im currently totally gutting my kitchen and have exposed the lighting setup In the 1 gang switch on the wall i have a brown cable and a black cable In the ceiling i have a brown cable and a black cable powering the bulb ...... Thats all !! My kitchen is an extension on the back of my house so i presume the kitchen is the last light on the circuit hence the lack of cables . Could you advise what these wires are doing as they are all buried in the walls and i cant see whats what . TIA

[@jwflame]

If those are the only wires, there must be a concealed junction box somewhere, probably in the ceiling. As the kitchen is being replaced, now is the ideal time to locate and remove that hidden box. Brown and black is not a normal combination of colours - red and black is more likely on older installations.

[@greenbfingers]

Hello great channel. I was wondering if I could use a 4 core electric cable safely as a standard 3 core household item , the 4 wires are green and yellow, brown, black & grey. Thanks in advance

[@jwflame]

Yes, the unused black core should be connected to earth at both ends.

[@actifedactifed]

Great video very informative

[@Jone36]

Hi John. Great vids thanks! Can you please do a video on wiring downlights¿ Thanks

[@stewartgilbert76]

Hi John. Great videos, are you able to do a video on a basic door entry or disabled alerm circuit please? These will be on my FICA test (Scottish final exam) and have no knowledge on these types of circuits. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

[@stewartgilbert76]

Alarm*

[@peterstiles1]

Yeh, I need help on disabling alarm circuits an all, John, for my, erm, exams, yeh. And one on how much gelignite to blow open a safe, too. For, er, my blowing safes open exam, yer, that's it, my exams John, know what I mean? ; ) cheers me ol china.

[@mikerm19]

Brown, black, and grey... great, now you won't be able to tell any of the wires apart in low lighting. Genius. I'm glad we over in the USA are sticking with good ol black and white (and red can come along too).

[@Zaine22]

Hi JW if i want a landing light and a hallway light and want to control them both from up stairs and also down stairs ( double light switch upstairs and downstairs basically) what circuit breaker would i put them on to. Upsatir lights or downstair lights. Thanks

[@jwflame]

If there are separate circuits for up / down already, then put the upstairs light on the upstairs circuit and the downstairs light on the downstairs circuit. However no requirement to have separate up/down circuits, they could be both on the same one.

[@Zaine22]

@@jwflame if there were on diffwrent circuit and i i turn off upstairs for example would there not still be a live wire on the upstairs light stwich though as it is still in control of the the downstairs hallway light via 3 core twin and earth?

[@martin319]

My lighting circuit is from the mid 60s and is the black and red insulated wires in i think is metal conduit, I believe this is used as the earth return, is this correct? as we have a new bathroom fitted and recessed led lights, the electrician said that he could not get an earth from it, so have to have a new circuit put in.

[@jwflame]

That was a common arrangement, the conduit is the earth. However there are several types of conduit - the heavy gauge screwed together type would still be suitable for use. Other types were much thinner and either connected with small clamps or even just pushed together - that style is not suitable for the earth as the connections are poor at best, and the various pieces may not be properly fixed together. if it's been tested and the conduit is not connected to earth, then rewiring is the only option.

[@sylvianorah1367]

4

[@sylvianorah1367]

@@jwflame John can i connect the neutral from the cu?? I have wired an outside light but cannot access the neutral from the ceiling light but the cu is near by ,i have put a 3 core & earth cable in the existing switch which is a 2way switch and replaced the 2 gang switch with 3 gang switch which is a 2 way. The outside light should be switched on inside and outside. So black is common and linked it to one of the commobs in the switch,then brown is l1 and blue is l2 . I have made the same connections to the outside 2 way switch so the the twin and earth cable is run from this switch to the light fitting. The blue in the twin and earth , is it connected to neutral or brown sleeved and connected to l2???

[@rgossip30]

How do you connect a fan direct to an outlet with a switch .

[@whyme2818]

I want to hook up a 12vdc alarm siren to my motion sensor light how can I do that? is the sensor running off dc from a step down and a.c. to dc thing or what

[@aftabjaved]

hi there. just great, i was wondering how to print these diagrams

[@pauloneill5779]

Great stuff JW thank you

[@newusername23]

I would also like to see a video on this. 2 PIR or even better 3 PIR. I have 3 points of entry into my driveway and as a result currently only one PIR picks up motion on one entrance.

[@newusername23]

Should have also said your videos are great, well instructed and systematic approach.

[@johnmac8084]

Another great video JW, thanks. I've found with ceiling fans that there aren't enough terminals to rewire the ceiling rose into the fan. Rather than use extra terminal strips within the fan, or rewire the ceiling rose into a junction box above the ceiling, why not just enlarge the hole & put the rose above the ceiling, then run a suitable flex to the fan? Is this acceptable to put the rose above the ceiling (assuming it accessible from the loft for inspection)?

[@jwflame]

A rose could be above the ceiling if accessible and fixed in position (to avoid wires being pulled out of the terminals), otherwise a junction box with cable clamps could be used and pushed through the ceiling hole from below, in the same style as used for downlighters.

[@johnmac8084]

JW Good to know, thanks again

[@3dmotormaker]

What I did was to fit a new pull cord switch. Power from the lighting junction box under the floor boards goes to a 30mA RCD, then out to the switch, L & N go out from the switch to the fan. The permanent live is taken from the back side of the switch and goes to the fan. The fan can be isolated via the RCD which is in an adjacent room. I had a problem because I fitted a double pole switch and that disconnects the neutral meaning there can be no run on timer. To fix this I bridged the neutral terminal in the pull switch, so that you can still isolate from the RCD, but switching the fan off via the pull cord only disconnects the live. Is there a better way of doing this ? should I have fitted a single pole pull switch and used a connector for the neutral ? or taken the neutral from the RCD direct to the fan and used a single pole pull switch ?

[@jwflame]

Doesn't really matter - single pole switch and connector is fine, so is what you have done. Could also put both of the neutrals into just one of the switch N terminals so they are connected together permanently.

[@3dmotormaker]

Hi John, No in the end what I did was to take the permanent live from the back side (input) of the switch, and then I placed a bridging wire over the neutral to make the double pole switch a single pole switch. I did think about taking the permanent live and a neutral from the RCD, but I have used 3 core and earth from the fan to the switch, and two core from the switch to the RCD. Just so you know, the lighting circuit is not an earthed system, and the fan is a IPx4 rated and an earth is not required. The system works fine, the RCD protects the fan OK totally isolating it. The only reason I used a double pole pull switch was because I read it was a requirement, but now I have the problem that when switched off I have no neutral for the run on timer without doing the above.

[@emart7675]

please can you make a video for a double gang 2 way switch where one light is on a 2 way switch on the landing and the second switch on the landing and the hallway only control each light separately when switch on, the landing and hall respectively.

[@MetTurtle818]

Very helpful, thank you.

[@iawnskicrew1195]

great thanks again very helpful

[@PhilReynoldsLondonGeek]

My bathroom light and fan have a fuse in the circuit - the first time I needed to remove it, I found it was a 13 amp - limited use on a 6 amp circuit so I changed it to 5 amp.

[@LucianoMartinRamirez]

Would you explain about control 02 circuits with diferent lines whit the one sensor movement I try to use internet. I've found dicromat 2cr but had serious question about 2 circuits with diferentes lines L1N and L2N

[@MitchJackson94]

Can I have a dimmable pir for day and night with an extractor fan without the pir affecting the fan?

[@jwflame]

Not easily - some fans may activate with a lower voltage or dimmed input on the switched line, but others may not. Also possible that the output from the PIR causes the fan to run all the time, as it will be the output from some combination of electronic components rather than just an on/off switch.

[@danielcostello4488]

Bit complicated for a first timer but very interesting about continuity of circuits

[@hel1um]

Great clear video. But I'm wondering if it's possible to replace a PIR motion sensor in our bathroom with a simple old pull cord switch, which would give us more control. I just can't work it out. The existing PIR wiring has earth, neutral, line and switched line wires, but the new pull switch just has the standard L1 (and L2 not req'd), the COM and earth terminals. Earth is obvious but I am wondering how to wire up the other three wires to the two pull switch terminals. The switch is for the light and an extractor fan (which has an isolator switch located outside the bathroom door). Can anyone please help!?

[@jwflame]

Line and switched line to L1 and COM. Neutral not connected to the switch.

[@hel1um]

@@jwflame thanks for such a speedy reply. So I just tape off the blue neutral then, and put line to L1 and switched line to COM?

[@matt-matt461]

@@hel1um yes

[@hel1um]

@@matt-matt461 great, thanks for the clarification.

[@johnsdiy6085]

I have a remote controlled fan light, but the bulb only dims not turns off via the off button on the remote.... How could this be resolved?

[@jwflame]

Most likely it's a fault with the control module in the fan. If you are using an LED lamp, it may not be compatible with the control module.

[@johnsdiy6085]

@@jwflame appreciate you taking the time to respond thanks.

[@davidseed2939]

at 6:41 why do we need the second gang. because both gangs do the same thing - create a switched live which powers a light . However if it was powering a fan than needed a separate fuse, then the love loop between the two gangs would be the place to put the fusee.

[@jwflame]

Each gang for a separate light, so they can be controlled separately.

[@davidseed2939]

John Ward doh

[@WayneCampbell-z4m]

Hello, I am asking for some advice, basically help if you would please

[@CraigMansfield]

Very interesting

[@ianholt4049]

Hi John. Would it be possible to run the ceiling fan through two dimmer switches? One for the light and the other to control the fan speed. Thanks.

[@jwflame]

Yes, but the fan one must be a dimmer suitable for fans/motors.