Goth Fast Fashion, we can do better

[@JoanaShino]

Thumbs up for more diversity, less closed-mindedness and more informed consumers 🖤

[@wickedwoman702]

As an elder gothicly inclined woman(47). Fast fashion isn't really geared towards me. I mean an above the knee skater "Wednesday Adams" dress was fine in my 20's but my more mature outlook and body can't really pull it off. I spend a lot of time scouring places to find pieces that work for me. I'd love to see companies encompass ALL goths not just those in the under 30 size 6 bracket.

[@uncrnsprklfrts5720]

Same! I'm side eyeing elegant goth lolita /victorian /vampire for this reason. Currently learning to sew because at this point I trust no one, and the few brands I do trust don't have my size. Also, they sell out SUPER fast!

[@pennywisethedancingclown2702]

I do have some clothing from questionable goth brands (Killstar and Dolls Kill). Lately I’ve only bought clothing from thrift stores; I like to modify the clothing. I’ve been trying to go back to the 80’s way of doing things, make it or nothing. Since they didn’t even have the option to purchase it. Better for the environment, and I get one of a kind pieces.

[@SterlingSMtr]

100% agree to this!

[@uncrnsprklfrts5720]

Hell yeah!! Omg, this is one of the things I miss the most from the 80s!

[@popgalaxy9115]

Haha I loved how you said "Questionable goth brands"😂✌🏼

[@KinoMcFarland]

Fast fashion has been weighing on my mind a lot lately. And the fact that everyone is buying clothes from the same two brands. It makes us all pretty homogenized.

[@VenusMacabre]

It's kind of weird how few people ever mention independent local brands (which you did, I don't mean you) considering that, while they may not be the cheapest, they at least do sell well-made clothes most of the time, they're much more unique, they don't use exploitative labor (as far as I know), and you're contributing to your local scene when you buy from them! Also the AHS Coven commentary killed me omg.

[@JoanaShino]

I totally agree, I wanted to mention a few smaller/local brands in this video but I was afraid it was going to turn out huge, so I think I'll save that for another video, maybe a lookbook even. And yes sometimes smaller brands are not the cheapest, but I get why they need to charge more, sometimes there's one person only behind them doing absolutely everything. Also I see that people are more inclined to spend a bigger sum in a popular brand than a local store. What is considered cheap or expensive varies alot depending on the popularity and not always the quality 😕

[@SterlingSMtr]

I'm DEFINITELY NOT buying from Dollskill!! They weren't even responding to said article of clothing in question! They were turning off their comments and deleting comments. These brands definitely need to expand there minds in the representation area as a whole! I do buy fast fashion here and there but I prefer my thrifting. I do tend to get better quality clothing for more than half the price. Some of the stuff still brand new tags still on!

[@HayleeHorton]

I love to support handmade shops :)

[@AdrienneLaVey]

Thank you so much for bringing up the issue of diversity of representation by these goth brands. It’s hypocritical that these brands boast being alternative and individualistic, but only represent tall, skinny white girls. I’ve submitted my modelling pictures to gothic beauty model pages and they’ve always been rejected. Apparently they don’t like goth girls of any other race except white (I’m not white; I’m mixed race but considered Latina). The mainstream is getting better at that than we are. That’s shameful. We should OWN diversity.

[@Ruin_Us]

I try to find my stuff on etsy and ebay. Looking to buy from a small business goth. I won't knock anyone who buys from killstar but I personally won't spend my money there. Great video! You've defintely earned a new sub.

[@Rilude]

Great video! I've been making an effort to make more informed decisions about the clothes I buy. Personally I avoid buying from dolls kill because they have a history of stealing designs from artists, as well as that "goth is white" mess that is going around for the second time.

[@opinionatedlibra1934]

They "apologized" and said they meant Goths can wear more than black. Before it happen the first time I believe I messaged them saying why they don't have more African American models...no response as far as I know of. If they truly didn't mean it then there should have been an explanation or change the phrase on the clothes. Also, I am thinking how did no one think or say hey wait is this the best phrasing. Edit: Apologize in quotes because some say they did and others say they did not.

[@noniefuss]

I have been plus sized my whole life, so needless to say, most of the popular brands of Gothically inclined clothes have simply not been for me. I have always purchased clothing that could be styled, altered, or paired with other pieces to make them work for me. The "Off The Rack" clothes, while nice, have never been my thing because A) There really just wasnt a lot around when I was young and B) I didn't really stand a chance at finding things there for my size. While I am glad that companies are starting to expand size range (even if sometimes what is considered "plus size" is just silly), I still find it hard to justify purchasing from them because I really don't find myself represented in their products or on their sites. When I can find my size easier on a fetish site than I can on a clothing one it makes me wonder why my dollar isn't good enough for some companies out there that are claiming to be "alternative". Like you said, how about they start posting alternatives to young, thin, white, instagram makeup wearing girls. Although there is absolutely nothing wrong with belonging to ANY of those categories, it would make for a nice change.

[@JoanaShino]

Thiiis 🖤 And yes what is considered 'plus size' in must brands are totally average sizes. Sizes that should be available in all items to begin with, not be on a side section so the brand can pat themselves on the back for having a 'plus size section' that goes up to XXL lol

[@sunriseeyes0]

I’m so happy I found your channel! Thank you for talking about diversity and sustainability in goth fashion. As a very short, dark skinned indigenous, mid-thirties woman, it is discouraging to not see models I can visually picture myself wearing their clothes. It also breaks my heart to see so much fast goth fashion, made by people like me, but not for people like me. Also, that they are made with horrible chemicals that are dumped into the rivers, oceans, and ground water. So seeing amazing people such as yourself speaking about these issues is really heartening. Thank you for it! 🖤💚🖤💚

[@JoanaShino]

Omg thank you 🤗🤗💖💖

[@MothNoises]

Thank you for your video. It's pretty sad that a subculture that originated from music and was all about creativity and not conforming to standards became just another very commercial thing. Now when you search "goth" on youtube, there's more hauls and unboxings and less music/diys. Which means someone who doesn't know about the subculture may think it's all about how you look and how much killstar/dollskill you own. I own a few killstar items, 1 lipservice item and 1 tripp nyc item but it's all second hand. I also go to thrift shops and then alter the clothing. In france we have 2 websites that allow you to sell/buy second hand clothing (there's many more but those two are the main ones): -vinted (that is now open worldwide, not just france) -Leboncoin I think another good option is depop. Can you guys suggest me other good websites where you can buy/sell clothing?

[@casper1754]

Thank you for talking about this issue. I'm tired of seeing goths say they're so different from the mainstream and so forward thinking, yet refusing to even reconsider the fast fashion companies they buy from. Just because a brand sells cute dresses, doesn't make them ethical. I mostly stopped buying fast fashion in the past year. Now, I buy from second-hand shops. From one, I recently bought a really lovely, unique, high quality black dress that I'm so excited to wear!! It's better for the environment and I don't have to support awful companies. Plus, it's way more fun :)

[@Devastatia669]

There are times when I'd love to be able to go and buy off the peg stuff, as it's something I've never been able to do. As well as being in the plus size spectrum, I'm also 6ft tall and quite often, it's more a case of things just aren't the right length for me. I've taken to either buying clothing from what some would call "normal" stores and customising the hell out of them or I try and make them myself. It would be lovely if more alternative clothing stores catered for everyone.

[@nosferatucreations]

As a (very) small goth business owner, I agree 💯

[@TitianX]

I used to be more optimistic about fast fashion because it is so cheaply produced and thus tended to cater to a variety of sizes, but the sizes are always off and confusing and they tend to not be very sustainable as a result. Ppl have been calling out alt companies for this but we are usually told to just go thrift shopping as if there is anything in our sizes in thrift stores either lol. I still get my basics from stores but for special pieces more often I have been going through independent sellers or learning how to alter my own clothes.

[@JoanaShino]

Yes, thrifting is a great option, but shouldn't be our only option. I struggle to find a thrift shop in my area even, let alone something that fits me and I'd like to wear

[@TiffanyFxcTragedy]

Yesss to all of this! Not only am I nostalgic for the clothes when I was younger. But the styles were different back then too. (I think we are the same age.) A lot of the popular goth brands clothing are so cheaply put together. I'm also sick of seeing people wearing their clothing who don't look like me. I started making my own clothing again. It's so refreshing. Thank you for this video! 🖤🖤🖤

[@earthbruja5268]

Killstar recently uploaded a photo of a curvier girl rocking their lingerie. I was so pleased and then disgusted with the laughing emoji of the typical white skinny females. 🙄 I'd love to see more ethnic models. I'm a puerto rican darkly inclined girl. I'd love to see a woc represented. Sick of the same skinny white girl. As for fast fashion, I love it. 😂 It's terrible but I can't afford small company items or handmade. I'm also very not good at DIY and have children so no time!! I do offer to thrift!

[@1015SaturdayNight]

You are SO RIGHT about goth fast fashion brands having LESS diversity in their marketing than mainstream fashion brands. It's terrible. Teenaged underweight white girls are not the entirety of the goth scene. It's cringey as hell.

[@FoxVox]

You make a fantastic point! I've been trying to avoid fast fashion and have fallen into the Killstar trap. The current goth trends are everything I've ever wanted, so I'm lucky there, but the quality has gone down steadily as the prices have increased! I'm sure I'm not the only person willing to pay more for ethical practices and sourcing! DIY is great, but not always practical for everyone, and as much as I love supporting local artists I can't always afford the price tag that comes with original design and handmade quality. Ever since I put on baby weight I've sized right out of all the easily accessible brands and I've gotten into thrifting, but it can be difficult finding the right pieces!

[@Thelornasharp]

You don’t seem lecturing or anything you just telling the truth 👏🏻🖤

[@cosmicfaeriedust4009]

Another goth channel for me to subscribe to

[@mrsc6917]

I love this video

[@enchantedluna111]

I had found your channel a while ago but completely forgot about it until it was mentioned in a fb group I'm on that is about sustainable alternative fashion. This is a problem I constantly think about and how it affected so many alternative styles (from jfashion to goth, punk, metal...) and how in the last years styles that were less mainstream and more based on DIY started to suffer the same or worse problems of fast fashion. I'm glad to see more voices joining on this problematic and so happy to find out you made a video about this :) Until today goth wise I still wonder what happened to DarkDoll at Lisbon, I remember the prices were high but at the same time we would be paying for craftsmanship and not the poor quality I seem to find in all these brands that become so popular and spread on social media. I don't blame folks for buying from those brands, after all, I do understand is more easy and convenient but I do wish to see in time the companies take a more sustainable path if the consumers demand it. Our days I don't dress as much in goth style only because I found more styles that I like to combine it with that are other types of alternative but as someone that dressed it exclusively for over 15 years it has a very big place on my heart. Thrifting in stores, flea markets, and DIY is what I personally try to do, to avoid more this brands but I realize not everyone has time for that. Lack of diversity in sizes is something these brands have personally always annoyed me especially in an era where it's demanded so highly by the consumer. Que venham mais vídeos assim =^.^=

[@misscadoixo]

coragem☺ loved the video. I also think more petite sizes should be available for short people (shorter than 1,65m or 1,60m) thank you for talking about this hypocrisy.

[@sevastra8249]

Goth fashion, especially the fast fashion portion also has a tendency to completely ignore plus sized folks in their offerings. I can't count the number of times I've seen goth shops stop at a large, but somehow they carry XXS. It also seems that a lot of goth shops will consider having the occasional XXL as being plus size friendly, ignoring the fact they most likely run small. It feels like a bait and switch, like the companies are saying "ha, look what you can't have. We don't want people like you wearing our clothes." Honestly I just look at whatever shops carry my size and goth it up with modifications and accessories.

[@menace_bunny]

Love this message! Thank you for making this video.

[@KitsuVampyria]

The AHS Coven comment made me cackle because it's true. I buy mainly from thrift stores because of enviromental and economical issues and because I find so many quality, unique pieces there. The few goth brands I have are either received from acquainted or bougth mainly in my babybat years. Tbh I am no fan of the quality of Killstar. On the other hand I do favor Dracula Clothing but they're marketing is the stereotypical skinny or hourglass girl in their stores (on the other hand their Facebook-page shows some diversity at least). Also I am ashamed to say I dunno about their ethics yet. Otherwise it's thrifted and DIY all the way!

[@autumnbranscome1741]

Eye makeup goals! I honestly try and thrift my stuff because I am so iffy with these sites (because I am bigger) and the only time I've ever used killstar it was not good quality in my opinion. 🖤

[@cacaubmad]

Thank you for this video, it is so important! I feel the same :(

[@delialefay13]

I do understand that dolls kill have been problematic but I do also know the do seek out and buy items from smaller creators. I make scalemail and chainmail and they found me on Etsy and ordered scalemail halter tops from me two years in a row and it was a good experience for me both times😺

[@chelseahill6784]

This video - YES! I'm sad how Goth has become a victim of fast fashion. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to see clothes that appeal to me and that they're easier to get hold of, and I appreciate that people have to make a living but DAMN the rate that the brands churn out clothes is overwhelming sometimes.

[@Arielapetraglia]

Love you girl!! Jut spoke the words put of my mind! There is NOTHING „gothic“ about Killstar. NOTHING.

[@lucosta5872]

Loool jealous girl that can't afford killstar... they are amazing full of amazing velvet clothes many styles of stuff home decor ...

[@dorym.tomaselli6739]

Funny I came across this video. I was thinking about how a lot of Killstar items seemed a bit overpriced. The regelar tee shirts were selling for 39 u.s. Recently they have reduced the price to almost all tees to 29 u.s. and the mens dress shirts with all the nice detail to around 59 from 79-89. Some as low as 55 u.s. I think they are getting the picture. I like the brand and most of the styles that are released but, I have a family (Goth dad here) to take care of so I need to budget myself. Glad they are showing plus size models too. Curvy women are attractive too and I mean that simcerely. Thanks for posting and voicing yourself.👍💀👻💜🌙

[@froxyanicotti]

Sinister NL is gorgeous. Rivendell studios, Dark Star by Jordash are also good.

[@eldritchnonsense1419]

I remember buying highly detailed, handmade stuff in a teeny tiny goth store in Lisbon way back in the day and despite its quality it was still cheaper than Killstar. I get the American Horror Story vibe too ;)

[@JoanaShino]

It was probably Dark Doll, I think still have a coat from them 😁

[@eldritchnonsense1419]

Era ainda mais pequenina do que a Dark Doll. Se bem me lembro chamava-se Fata Morgana e ficava num centro comercial em Picoas, daqueles que hoje em dia estão completamente abandonados, isto já foi há muiiiiiiiiitos anos. Sim, eu sou um bocado velhota :P P.S. Tive preguiça e escrevi em português. Sorry.

[@JoanaShino]

@@eldritchnonsense1419 Aaah dang! Já nem me lembrava desse sítio, apesar de que esse centro comercial ainda vive (mais ou menos 😛)

[@eglathren]

Extremely relevant video, and excellent articulation (aquele shade discreto àquela marca confundível com PC's) 💓

[@JoanaShino]

Ahah, believe it or not escolhia-a para exemplo 'neutro', eles estão rated como it's a start que é tipo o intermédio, e a maioria das marcas do género, Zara, H&M, têm a mesma score. Era para mostrar que este tipo de marcas que ouvimos constantemente coisas negativas sobre condições de trabalho estão na verdade mais bem cotadas que qualquer marca gógó - até podiam estar a usar trabalho infantil na China que ninguém sabe porque não partilham info nenhuma.

[@eglathren]

@@JoanaShino Oops my bad xD mas sim, não tinha noção do quão mal essas marcas estavam. Este vídeo foi mesmo bastante esclarecedor :)

[@vvitchmist4856]

I've been saying this kind of thing for a little while now in my own circles. I lament that Goths look the same.

[@moonshybat]

This is a very important video!

[@PlunderingProduction]

Interesting blog, I have a hard time getting quality large sized blank apparel for my store. I source my manufacturers carefully for being carbon neutral and also that they are running an ethical factory. I am slowly replacing stock I mistakenly bought as cheap, when I first started up. I see you have a "teespring" store and I cannot find anything about them being co2 neutral or being ethical, so it should show up on the app you use as a low scorer! Just because the information is not out there, does not mean that an alternative fashion business does not care about the environment or their workers. If this app only runs on reading the info it can gather online, then I can only assume it will give you a flawed or biased results. Further more, and lets be brutal about this... alternative (Goth) fashion is NOT environmentally sound by a long shot. PVC (plastic), fake fur (Modacrylic) and vegan leather ( polyurethane among other things) will all end up in the sea.

[@derszatan6109]

What do you think of Disturbia?

[@JoanaShino]

I own a couple of items from them, I thought the quality varied greatly between the items. They say they're a family business, there's not much information about them, I don't know where their products are manufactured (I'll have to take a look at what the tags say). Unfortunately their size variety also sucks and I think every single model on their website is young/white/skinny... so yeah, a lot of room for improvement :\ In terms of style I do appreciate that they're doing their own thing, and to me they seem the most original out of the lot

[@MothNoises]

I own a bunch of items from them and out of curiosity after reading your comment I checked all of the labels. "I want to leave" shirt: made in bangladesh, continental clothing (apparently continental clothing is a brand that prints shirts) one of the labels says it's approved by "fair wear foundation" "fuck the system" shirt: made in turkey, no fair wear tag thorn dress: made in china, no fair wear tag hocus pocus jeans made in turkey, no fair wear tag eyelet jeans made in china, no fair wear tag web cardigan made in china, no fair wear tag Apparently some of their white print on black clothing sutff (I guess all the salem clothes,you cant sit with us and all the ones they restock pretty often) are fairly sourced but any slightly more complex design isn't. So yep they're pretty much like killstar and dollskill (and it makes me mad because i love their stuff so much :,), but now i'll try to be careful and try not to buy from them first hand) The only good thing about them is that they don't steal designs. At least I've never heard of them stealing designs while dollskill is notorious for doing so and killstar had to remove one item because they stole the design from an artist.

[@kybercat7]

I couldn't care less about plus sized clothes, im not obese. but i agree with you 100% that we often dont shop around and look at our options as much as we need to. I keep a list of all the small shops i like so that i dont forget they exist. Its freakishly easy to forget that little place you loved 2 years back,at least for me. and supporting small businesses is ALWAYS a good idea.

[@JoanaShino]

Erm... Plus size doesn't necessarily mean obese. And caring for issues that only affect you directly is pretty narrow-minded.

[@mrsc6917]

Us lard butts are too disgusting to wear goth clothes I guess XD Guess the last 24 years of my life is a lie 😱

[@kybercat7]

@@mrsc6917 When i say "i dont care" i literally mean just that, i dont care. If someone makes plus sized clothes then well good for the people looking for them. If not then not my problem. I never once said "you cant be spooky if your fat" if you love the music then your in. simple as that

[@TitianX]

@@kybercat7 you honestly could have started your original post at the 2nd sentence if you "don't care". And... we care.

[@LoveWarDeath]

Joana Shino plus size does mean overweight though. Not certainly obese...

[@annabowden3087]

Fast fashion needs to die! I buy second hand or thrift almost always now!

[@lauralestat]

Did you seriously lose sponsors because of this video?? If so, WTF?? Not your fault they need to get their shit together.

[@JoanaShino]

Oh no! As far as I know at least ahah. It was just a snarky remark to both brands that only pay attention to positive reviews and to influencers or wannabe influencers that only do positive reviews and never mention any problematic issues so they don't get on the brand's bad side

[@lauralestat]

Phew!!