Three Phase Mystery Solved, No Neutral Required in a Balanced Load?

[@Sergey3023]

OMG.Just found your channel and can't fully describe how easier its for me to understand stuff that I've been taught with City and Guilds. Absolutely brilliant ,thank you!

[@JoeRobinsonTraining]

Glad it's helpful, stay tuned for more!

[@no_short_circuit]

Thanks Joe. 3 phase has always mystified me but with your videos I'm getting nearer understanding it all.

[@JoeRobinsonTraining]

Glad they're helping. As always if you have any questions or suggestions for future videos let me know!

[@100greenoranges]

I have tried to understand this concept at least 10 separate times over the years. The missing piece was that the other end of the circuits were connected to each other. I now also understand Y and delta configurations. It's the simple things that other educational content skips that make it difficult for a complete newb to understand. Thank you!

[@shamanking5195]

Hi Joe. We have a motor that was recently rewound, full service done to it. But when we installed it is pulling high amps in two phases only. supply voltage = 460 motor amp rating = 283 voltage phase to ground phase A =279 phase B = 280 phase C = 282 amps per phase phase A= 277.0 amps phase B = 296.0 amps phase C = 286.0 amps we are using a soft starter to get the motor up to speed , once the motor is at full speed a bypass contactor is energized and from that moment On the soft starter is only waiting for the stop command we are going across the line with the contactor. We suspected the bypass contactor was faulty and causing the high amps , but when we inspected the contactor it was in good condition , it worked properly. We checked for loose connections and found none . motor and cables Megged good. There is not enough imbalance to cause the problem. Any idea what could be causing this problem ???.

[@ahmedfayez4596]

Thank you Sir for this amazing video. I am a junior biomedical engineer working on Xray machines. I have noticed that we are not connecting the neutral line in the generator and i was wondering why. Just watched this video and you explained it! Appreciate it.

[@JoeRobinsonTraining]

You are welcome! 👍

[@neilholmes1275]

Did wonder about this yesterday, I'm not an electrician but wondered how a 3 phase SWA cable could get away with a neutral that wasn't 3 times the size of the lives. Read some text that explained it but no where near as well as your video. Brilliant.Thanks

[@sparky9378]

Fantastic video joe thanks

[@JoeRobinsonTraining]

Thanks very much, stay tuned for more!

[@keitho77]

Excellent video Joe. Very clear and concise explanation. No wonder I Subscribed!!

[@JoeRobinsonTraining]

Glad it came across that way. Plenty more on the way so stay tuned!

[@mohamedkhalid7708]

This is the easiest explanation that I came across so far. Thank you very much. Superb!

[@m0nkeytr0uble]

just found your channel and as i just started my apprenticeship in germany this is really helping filling in the gaps of the language barrier. so far one of the best explanations ive found and easily put across so thank you dude

[@JoeRobinsonTraining]

Ah great to know, glad the content is helping and thanks for commenting. 👍

[@PunmasterSTP]

How has your apprenticeship been going?

[@brentkelly5445]

ty for that clarity. The only thing I don't see is at the 10:35 mark the total is a clear as day. 8-4-4=0. When you had 2 legs on it was 8 on the neutral. However when you pick any point on that waveform and try to match A + B they don't add up to 8 all the time. say for instance at the line you inserted. The red phase is 8 but either of the other 2 are -4. 8-4=4

[@JoeRobinsonTraining]

It's the same principle as a single phase sine wave, it will have a different value at different points. What you're looking for is the rms value of the wave form. 👍

[@brentkelly5445]

@@JoeRobinsonTraining ty . one more question if you have the time. It would be almost impossible ,yes?, to have a panel balanced at any one moment. Thus there is always an amount of unbalanced current running back to the panel neutral, and from there to??? back through the service? Also in your example here if you touch the neutral in the balanced state you are fine. if you touch in when one heater is on .... you are toast?

[@JoeRobinsonTraining]

@@brentkelly5445 it depends on the type of loads connected to the panel really. If you've got three phase motors it should be almost perfectly balanced, many three phase motors have no neutral for this reason. If you've got lots of different single phase loads, lighting, sockets etc., it's almost impossible to get it balanced. Touching the neutral is different as it's the voltage between neutral and earth that causes a shock, in theory you shouldn't get a shock from either a balanced or an unbalanced neutral, but as it's classed as a live conductor you'd NEVER want to touch it as things do go wrong and you could get a shock. Hope that helps. 😊

[@brentkelly5445]

@@JoeRobinsonTraining ah yes ty. because the neutral to ground is less resistance than me.

[@esfae8250]

Hello Joe, Outstanding Video. Very informative and a great training tool.

[@JoeRobinsonTraining]

Thank you kindly, there's more to come so stay tuned!

[@tedlahm5740]

But we did need the neutral with two phase of usage, as well as single phase. Very well presented video. Thank you.

[@JoeRobinsonTraining]

Spot on Ted, you may remember from the previous video though that when we removed the neutral connection for two lamps they dimmed, I'll explain this in a future video!

[@xerxes456]

@@JoeRobinsonTraining could you use square root of 2 that give you lower voltage?

[@tedlahm5740]

@@JoeRobinsonTraining Joe: revisiting this subject 3 years latter. Still a Learner. Does the VOLTAGE jump up on 3 phase open neutral on the individual legs with ONE LEG no longer has no load? P.S. You do not look a day older.

[@altuber99_athlete]

5:20 This part is a bit misleading. We don’t need the neutral wire to complete the circuit in a three-phase circuit even when we have unbalanced conditions. This is because the phase wires act as return wires in different intervals of time.

[@midkort]

This is a great explanation. I appreciate the fact that your explanation uses the actual goings on in the circuit. This really helps me understand - as opposed to just believing - how the circuits operate. Thank you! You just gained a subscriber.

[@JoeRobinsonTraining]

Good to hear. I'm really glad the video helps. 😊

[@DaftSwank]

This is brilliant stuff. Thank you! I wish Joe Robinson and KZbin were around back when I was in Uni!

[@JoeRobinsonTraining]

Thanks for the kind comment. 😊

[@Andrew-hu9ke]

Excellent presenter and teacher - Thank you Joe 👍

[@JoeRobinsonTraining]

Ah thanks. That's really kind of you to say. 😊

[@gbelectricks]

Excellent video again joe. I watched the first one a while ago, could you not leave it so long for the next instalment!! The suspense is killing me😄👍

[@JoeRobinsonTraining]

😂 Sorry Gareth, it was an absolute monster of an edit. Next three phase video should drop next Wednesday. Thanks for the support! 👍

[@peterdelapena8713]

excellent video. clear and precise. straightforward and easy to understand.

[@turbotrana]

I've always wondered about this and you answered beautifully.

[@oblu43]

Excellent Way of presentation.....Three Phase Concepts made explicitly simple....Appreciated..

[@JoeRobinsonTraining]

My pleasure, thanks for commenting. 😊

[@rjpoonia717]

Great Explanation, simplified to the maximum and easy to understand.

[@Richard-fp1mk]

Brilliant explanation. Something I've been looking for in a long time.

[@shahedkhan-bx1iw]

your practical explanation way more specific than any others I need a practical explanation about Filter from you. Like you so much❤❤❤❤

[@wagabira]

wow, that's crazy stuff. I must be on my 3OTH video. great information and very well explained. thanks a million

[@tylerarrigoni7700]

Nicely done!

[@TheBigstve]

Thats becauae the neutral current is the inverted vector sum of the line/phase currents. Brilliant, keep up the good work fella

[@LSF315]

Great video, Joe. Mystery solved although it seems too simple! I guess the way to look at it is that any wave form above the axis line is a positive figure and any value below the wave form is a negative figure; add these three up and you have the value of zero?

[@JoeRobinsonTraining]

It pretty much is that simple and you've totally got the point of the positive and negative values. It gets a little trickier when we start looking at imbalanced three phase loads. Stay tuned for next week's video!

[@LSF315]

Joe Robinson Training brilliant; can’t wait.

[@79brumley]

Omg this video is absolutely amazing, Helped me soo much in my AC principles class.

[@JoeRobinsonTraining]

Great to know. Make sure you check out my other videos. 👍

[@PunmasterSTP]

No neutral required? More like "The amount of knowledge conveyed in these videos is wild!" Thanks for making and sharing them.

[@vanderpant2116]

Great vid, like all your other vids are, your ability to convey your knowledge in a simple easy to understand way is exceptional.

[@JoeRobinsonTraining]

Aw, thanks for the kind comment 😊 just hoping the videos help people out. Stay tuned for more!

[@devonsalmon7554]

Hello I like your videos. You put them across so that most people can understand. There is a circuit that I would like you to do for a group of us. We would like you to show us a lift station with a high float and a low float switch. How I want it to operate is, when the water, sewage or any liquid rises it turn on the low float but the motor does not start until the water or sewage reaches the high float. When the water is pumped out the motor does not stopped until the water is down to the lower float. Thanks in advance.

[@JoeRobinsonTraining]

Sounds intriguing, il add it to my to do list. 👍

[@smokinpea]

Just came across your channel & found this video super clear & extremely helpful (my apprenticeship, in the UK, finished over 30 years ago & since then I have had no exposure to 3-phase systems). Now in Gemany I have a 3kw immersion heater element, of the 400v 3-phase variety, to install at home. No info came with it & I can find nothing online (happy days!). From a visual inspection of its internal connections it is STAR configured, with 3 individual heating elements - one per phase. I have measured the resistance of each individual heating element/phase (i.e. to the neutral point) & they are all the same. I understand that this then represents a 'balanced load' scenario, and thus does not need the Neutral line to be connected. My question is, is there any disadvantage of connecting the Neural line if it is already there/available to do so? I don't beleive that there is but... Thanks ever so in advance for clarifying this.

[@leoleorelated]

Really valuable due to the work I’m currently doing, thankyou👍🏾

[@JoeRobinsonTraining]

My absolute pleasure Leo, stay tuned to get ahead for next week!

[@brightspark263]

Great video as always Joe, it's really helping my understanding of 3-phase supplies. I've always found 3-phase a fascinating subject, these videos are perfect for anyone trying to understand the underlying principles behind it.

[@JoeRobinsonTraining]

Thanks for the nice comment, I'm glad they're helpful. The edit on this one was a nightmare so glad it wasn't in vain! Stay tuned for more...

[@kaokaoylan4510]

Marvelous teaching, my local lecturer only did throwing equations and electrical diagrams at my face...

[@JoeRobinsonTraining]

Thanks, tell your classmates! 👍

[@lsnogaming2893]

Fantastic as always Sir 👍

[@TheInkBuildUp]

Finally a video that made things more clear. 10:28 literally made say, "ooooooooooh. now I get it."

[@mohamedyuszal8189]

Thank you so much for this amazing and direct video. Definitely looking forward to more videos from you

[@simonabel6869]

Great video, keep the three phase one's come.

[@JoeRobinsonTraining]

Thanks Simon, next week's video is a three phase one as well. 👍

[@waleedmohi356]

very good,theoretical and practical

[@ravindulakshan770]

Many many thanks sir... I was trying to understand about three phase. Finally, I got it..

[@JoeRobinsonTraining]

Ah brilliant, love hearing this. 😊

[@Vector_Wong]

Very understandable video about three phase thanks Joe

[@KannanKannan-om9ln]

I have seen 1000 video.But your videos are my life.

[@JoeRobinsonTraining]

Thanks very much, that's really kind.

[@mohamedabdelmonem6468]

Beautifully explained ....Thanks

[@JoeRobinsonTraining]

Thanks for all the comments! 😃

[@vievlogs589]

Time to learn with Joe 📚

[@hadrizharif]

Joe, thanks for answering my curiosity! Great video and explanation

[@AlanLumsden]

Great video Joe 👍 Prime mover comes to mind...

[@JoeRobinsonTraining]

Thanks very much Alan!

[@mohammadsamir2713]

Actually one of the best explanations, but with a greater explanation always comes more questions, you said that the current at the neutral point will be always zero, and you thankfully proved it by experiment, so there is the question "how could we get 8.4 amps in the lines before the heater while at the other end (the neutral point) has zero amps ?", it doesn't make sense to me as it means there is no charge carriers moving at all, they stop each other

[@dimitrisblane6368]

They don't stop each other. They sort of "push/pull" each other at the other side of the load so it's always zero. As the 3-phase graph describes. You could think of it with the water example. At one point in time motor 1 might be pushing 5 litres of water, while motor 2 is sucking 3 litres and motor 3 is sucking 2 litres. The current from one phase will go through the load and then balance out with whatever the currents on the other 2 phases are doing cause they are in perfect balance.

[@krishath7085]

Awesome tutorial. Many thanks Joe

[@alexsotelo7176]

This video has answered so many of my questions

[@g00glian0]

Amazing how simple you made that to understand. So cool to understand this now!

[@a_l7515]

Great video joe

[@JoeRobinsonTraining]

Thanks very much!

[@WorldEngineersOnline]

Excellent explanation.

[@JoeRobinsonTraining]

Thank you!

[@crozwayne]

Excellent video, very informative for me, a non spark mech engineer who has to play with electricomagical angry pixies from time to time!

[@sidheekali3223]

Thanks ❤ from India 🇮🇳

[@any_one4255]

You cleared my long time doubt so quick... @ motor winding... Y they are connected together

[@JoeRobinsonTraining]

Glad the video helped! Stay tuned for more!

[@coolminded850]

Awesome explanation. Thanks a lot for sharing such a valuable and highly practical content.

[@lst080956]

Thanks very much. Check with you, does RCB without neutral.

[@bradmoore1247]

Really great, I finally understand why.

[@MrPress6]

Fantastic example thank you

[@siddhat7802]

Informative series of videos. It is great to see how you build up the concepts one after the other.

[@JoeRobinsonTraining]

Thanks very much, you can understand anything if you take the right steps. 👍

[@n4thb4dc0]

Another great video 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

[@JoeRobinsonTraining]

Thanks very much for commenting, stay tuned for more!

[@edwindelfin7923]

Amazing explanation. I have a question, there are loads that require two phases, for example an air conditioner or a 220 V luminaire. This type of load does not require a neutral conductor, where does the current return to? How does this kind of system work? Can you make a video about it, please? Thank you! Greetings from Mexico, you've been my best teacher so far!

[@JoeRobinsonTraining]

Ah, thanks for the kind comment Edwin. In a two phase circuit the current just passes down one phase and back down the other before it changes direction.

[@smacool2975]

@@JoeRobinsonTraining Would you mind explain the answer further, I didn't unfortunately get the answer.

[@deang5622]

​@@smacool2975 You have two conductors connected to the load. In order for electricity to flow, there must be a continuous unbroken loop for the electricity to flow on. It starts off from the voltage source, travels along the conductor to the load, passes through the load and then returns down the second conductor back to the voltage source. That is all there is to it.

[@williammcintosh6006]

Knocking it out the park Joe!

[@JoeRobinsonTraining]

Thanks Will, nice to know they're helping!

[@Galmm-ub2dc]

I glad if you answer me on a question, why the current was 8.4 amps when l1 and l2 were connected without l3? Thanks in advance 🙏

[@vipinv8004]

Great explanation. I wish i had a teacher like you....

[@JoeRobinsonTraining]

Ah, but you do, right here on KZbin!

[@mehboobaliawanaofficial7304]

nice teaching I learned musch more

[@mickuljatheseagull]

Really rally good explanation

[@JoeRobinsonTraining]

Thank you. 👍

[@yogeeshgarudangiri5148]

Very nice presentation...

[@antmerritt]

Brilliantly put cheers buddy 😁👊👍

[@JoeRobinsonTraining]

You're welcome Ant, thanks for the message, stay tuned for more!

[@andersonpinesso2812]

Thanks a lot for very good explanation

[@Xxxcappie23]

Brilliant video .Please do more

[@moisty254]

That 3 phase current cancelling example finally cleared the air for me after all these years on no need for neutral on balanced load, thanks! Got a question though- the electrons still need to return to their source, so at any given degree of rotation is the electrons flowing down the respective phases in the opposing directions back to the source?

[@serpaolo7413]

I have the same question? Any answer?

[@ulamichalczyk4216]

I have a three phase 20A cirucit breaker, supplying three different single phase loads: stove, oven and microwave oven. Can the neutral conductor will be the same size as phase conductors?

[@RandomPsychic]

can you explain the difference between these heater circuits when using star vs delta?

[@randomjack477]

About the zero current, Can we think of it in terms Kirchhoff's current law? Not only when at peak values , but also at different points indicated by the graph, where we can add or subtract the 3 phase(r,y,b) values depending on whether it is in the Positive(up/forward) or Negative(down/negative).

[@nickh2799]

This video was perfectly explained thank you sir

[@SilverthorneA27]

Another great video! This guy kicks ass!

[@kruzzah]

Really nice n simple. Plz ur support for my question which is, If it says 3ph generator has 120amps capacity, does it mean that each phase will provide 120amps or each phase will provide 40amps?

[@nick281972]

This had me baffled for years, all it takes is the right teacher.

[@swrdashy]

Thank you for your explanations...

[@srihaanshbobbili2781]

Hello Joe, What is the voltage between the live wire and the neutral wire for three-phase four-wire.

[@64NVG]

Thanks a lot for the efforts taken to produce this very valuable content! I have two questions and hope you can clarify. 1. Even though loads are balanced, the current must flow through closed path and hence at any moment, current from one phase gets split and flows through other two phases. Is this correct? 2. In typical medium voltage distribution system, there is never a neutral, and the loads connected could be far from balanced. How does the net current (vector sum of all three phase currents) flow in this case? Does it flow through other phases as in case of balanced loads? If yes, then how get current in neutral in this video? Thanks a lot again for your time!

[@JMKClassroom]

Hi Joe your explanations are super clear ,can you do a video on a single phase max demand calculation of a building and a three phase max demand of a factory.

[@any_one4255]

Nice teaching methodology

[@JoeRobinsonTraining]

Thanks very much!

[@onurguvener3451]

Great explanation! Thanks!

[@JoeRobinsonTraining]

You're welcome, please check out my other videos!

[@coloradowilderness3139]

So at 11:06 if this unbalanced we need thicker Neutral wire. Bcz 3-Phase current returning through this One Neutral. Am i wrong ?

[@JoeRobinsonTraining]

It's tricky to answer this simply. In an unbalanced three phase load of purely resistive loads the neutral current should never be higher than the highest phase. Other stuff can make the neutral current really high. I'll do a video.

[@Koggy9]

Great video and makes sense when you have 3 balanced loads, but (unless I'm missing it) there isn't an explanation as to why when loads are only on L1 and L2 that the current in the neutral is the same as the individual loads? Sorry, new to this so might be a dumb question?

[@sadiarehman9175]

Excellent Graphics ... Good work. Which is this Device in your hand ?? Measures what other parameters ??

[@JoeRobinsonTraining]

It's a clamp meter. Measures current voltage and other things.

[@thapelogerald6754]

1.If i may ask, what causes the high/low voltage and how do you solve the problem? 2.What causes shocking taps and how do you resolve it?

[@EhsanulKarim-dn9fb]

why did the neutral current with two motors on read 8.4 A?

[@JoeRobinsonTraining]

Watch this video and try drawing it out! 😃 kzbin.info/www/bejne/nHnMkqifYreCn80

[@johnreymaliao3352]

Can you please make a video of 3 phase motor and explain the relation of the current drawn in low- high speed or wye-delta..

[@malachygallagher4936]

Hi Joe. Excellent! Can you do a video on bonded or floating neutrals on generators & if Earth rods are required?(TNCS) Regards mg.

[@amiznu]

How do they create the dc power that powers the electro magnet within the generator?

[@_stardust__]

Does connecting all the three phases together form a neutral point? Suppose, we take a mcb, connect 3 phases in its input and short the 3 output terminals and turn ON the mcb. What will happen? Will there be a short circuit or the common point of the mcb output will behave like a neutral point?

[@JoeRobinsonTraining]

The answer is yes to all your questions. If you connect the outgoing terminals from the MCB they will create a neutral point but it will have the exact same effect as connecting the outgoing side of a single phase MCB to neutral, a short circuit and a huge bang! Don't do it! 😱

[@nolwazibridget3716]

Joe thanks for making this video... Can I please get clarity why did u read 8.2A on the neutral when L1 and L2 was on???

[@JoeRobinsonTraining]

Great question, stay tuned for a future video. 👍

[@okud5850]

@@JoeRobinsonTraining has this video been made?

[@baseball1441]

Great Video! Can you explain how if you remove the neutral reference in this balanced load you still have coil to ground or coil to neutral voltage? In the US we commonly use a 120/208 Y system in commercial buildings. If I lose that reference why are my single phase loads not getting 208? Obviously if you take a voltage reading between any phase to a different phase its 208.

[@plansimple9156]

Hi JR, than for the demo. If neutral is floating, and the load is not balance, what happened and what is expected? Are there any difference for the source is from utility Tx or UPS under discharge?

[@shaifsiddique4842]

Nice one...keep going