John Adams- American History

From HBO's Miniseries "John Adams"
"What do we mean by the Revolution? The war? That was no part of the revolution; it was only an effect and consequence of it. The revolution was in the minds of the people, and this was effected from 1760 - 1775, in the course of fifteen years, before a drop of blood was shed at Lexington."- John Adams

[@LuisFernandez-fq7mr]

John Adam's simply said that this painting showed men with no fear and they were all smiling. When In fact every single one of them were scared for there lives when signing this declaration. This was hard for all of them and was only unanimously signed under fear of death, a threat which was delivered by the king.

[@haidengeary8277]

Very true. However I do agree that it is better to capture expectations, rather, to capture the faith each ultimately had in the cause. How they felt at the time is irrelevant, what matters is that they stuck it out, even if they didn't do it together, They still did it.

[@leeroberts4850]

Haiden Geary saying facts of history are irrelevant means you understand art but not history

[@mahna_mahna]

To ignore history over myth is to let myth dictate history. And this false history then reigns over the present. This is something our nation definitely suffers from.

[@porsche911sbs]

@@mahna_mahna Not just "our nation", but every nation likes to portray their history in with a heroic skew.

[@mahna_mahna]

@@porsche911sbs Never said just our nation.

[@Drakelx55]

I do like how the faces of Adams, Jefferson and Franklin resembles the actors in the series rather than the original painting

[@timdewit6088]

Yeah, reminds of the final episode of The Tudors, where the famous Hans Holbein painting of Henry VIII looks nothing like the actual painting but is instead a portrait of Jonathan Rhys Meyers in Tudor garb.

[@MrFlyboy1313]

If it didn’t look like the actors it wouldn’t have made sense.

[@Spongebrain97]

MrFlyboy1313 I get what you mean but look at it from this perspective, an artist wasn't there to paint an event that didn't happen so it would sorta make sense that not all the faces would be accurate so they could insert the actual faces of the founders to show the "inaccuracy"

[@smaller_cathedrals]

@@MrFlyboy1313 It would have made sense since the painting actually exists, so for authenticity they could've used the real one. As to show that the critic is applicable to the real painting. But they didn't, since it made even more sense to adapt the painting to actors, even if that meant to take some liberties, poetic liberties so to speak. Which just goes to show that the show runners put a lot of thought into it.

[@jamesperryii9994]

Wow, I didn't realize till you mentioned it. Great eye.

[@ianinkster2261]

The irony is that this very scene is poetic license. Adams did regard the painting with relative indifference and left again in good spirits.

[@NashvilleRebel]

The whole HBO series dabbled in poetic license. But it was well made and entertaining.

[@evillink1]

I think this whole speech was HBO trying to be a little meta about the show itself. What would Adams think if he saw it.

[@jeffmorin5867]

@@evillink1 consider the possibility that they are telling you a truth in this scene. "History is a lie, agreed upon." - Napoleon Bonaparte

[@nonyafkinbznes1420]

@@evillink1 That's pretty funny.

[@michaelo.1320]

Shin piece, sir.

[@francismadden8561]

'The true history of the American revolution as lost'. 'Nothing is so false as modern history'. That was a powerful delivery.

[@ilmsff7]

Funny when Trumbull asks Adams if he approves, Adams' son or grandson gives a cough trying to end that line of conversation or give a "oooooh boy, here we go" cough. :)

[@Aerandariel]

ilmsff7 That was for sure John Quincy Adams, who I think was President by that point.

[@danbytp]

ilmsff7 John Quincy Adams his son and future President.

[@TheHistoryGuy]

not future. He was President in 1826 when the painting was placed in the rotunda.

[@marilynphan]

The other guy with Adams is his son, John Q. Adams a future President.

[@paulwagner688]

At this point in the show, JQA had just been elected.

[@cisium1184]

This is a scene only someone raised in the age of moving pictures could have written. Neither Adams nor anyone of the 18th century would have expected a single painting to capture events that had taken place over time without a heavy dose of artistic license. It was the nature of painting, and thus became part of the culture of painting, that imagined scenes were created by painters to transcend the limits of time by depicting as simultaneous events that had taken place at different times. As one of the most cultured and best educated men on the entire continent, Adams would have appreciated this. Only someone raised in an age of film could impugn a painting for trying to achieve by art that which technology was not yet capable of achieving.

[@schroederscurrentevents3844]

But you must allow the filmmaker certain license…….

[@jessica3676]

❤❤

[@conorford7852]

Except it was absolutely his opinion. The words he expressed here are taken word for word from the letter he wrote to his son John Quincy Adams.

[@ULTIMAFAX]

That's not the point of the scene. The show isn't impugning the painting; it's warning the viewer not to take art as history. It's reminding us that we are watching a television show, not actual history. The scene as depicted never occurred, but that's the point.

[@robert9016]

@@conorford7852I can’t find this letter, could you send me to where it is? All I’ve read is that the scene was entirely fictional

[@ianmartinezcassmeyer]

"You, Mr. Trumbull...are no Rubens." Makes me chuckle every time.

[@bradleyparker4035]

We need a man like him so much these days. The presidency was not his finest hour, but beyond this he truly was a great man. And his son's term in the office was also not a fine hour for him either. But he went on to become one of the fiercely devoted followers of emancipation, the Adams are greatly missed

[@Shatamx]

The times is what made that man. He was seeing an army march ashore on his home in Boston. While killing its citizens.

[@Pius-XI]

Historically JA viewed this painting at Faneuil Hall only 2 weeks after his wife had passed and that he gazed silently at it without making comment.

[@SkepticalChris]

"Do not let our posterity be deluded with fictions under the guise of poetical or graphical licences." I think he says it all with that sentence after the artist tries to justify the work as "artistic licence" which we see all too often today in Hollywood and to an extent even this program about John Adams.

[@tbirdguy1]

Some want the founders to be holt saints and heroes only. But they were just as much villains and scoundrels on how they treated other human beings, and there very close minded natures. Only a few understood the a portion evil of slavery, and fewer saw anyone but themselves as worthy of rights and liberty. Are history of that time is littered with falsehoods and myths to make us feel better. But the truth, unvarnished and hard to swallow... is that we dont come from noblilty we are only noble when we try to live up to the ideals of freedom and liberty.

[@XanathosZero]

Lesson: Read some history after you enjoy this fine series. It is pretty interesting. =)

[@adamsd86]

“......but other than that, it‘s great.”

[@muttleycrew]

lol

[@SuperAussie999]

I'd really prefer that you be quiet...but yes, you are correct

[@Pulang_Diwa]

Reminds me of that Key and Peele sketch.

[@GrassValleyGreg]

I love how JQ is like... "Oh shit... Shouldn't have asked that."

[@JonBaldie]

Even JQA, an elected president, fears his grouchy dad going off on one 😂

[@donaldnewton3149]

@Mr. Graves Even a President. Just because you're 50-60 years old and the Chief of an entire military...you will never escape the wrath that is your Mom and Dad even when they are 90 and knocking on death's door.

[@CRA5759]

Charles Carroll of Carrollton was the last signatory of the Declaration of Independence; passing away at the age of 95 in 1832.

[@zyzor]

Adams knew that the great group of thinkers and characters who had signed that monumental parchment was a unique group, and that there would never be such a coming together of minds like that ever again. He and Jefferson carried that legacy on with the breath in their old lungs and soon the last living memory of that occasion would be lost forever.

[@AlbertAlbertB.]

utter nonsense.

[@jadapinkett1656]

@@AlbertAlbertB. Sure, Jan.

[@lewstone5430]

@Jada Pinkett the world hates you for what you did to Will!

[@anonymousanonymous7250]

This would have been his reaction to the Hamilton musical. This is mine as well.

[@michaelwilliamybarra2409]

+anonymous anonymous Feel free to explain? (only curious, not mad or judgemental)

[@anonymousanonymous7250]

Michael Ybarra Very bad history, deluded for poetical licenses.

[@joecmoore2]

+Michael Ybarra Without putting words in anonymous anonymous's mouth. I would surmise that he means that Hamilton is to historical accuracy, what Salvador Dali's works are to realism and portraiture.

[@anonymousanonymous7250]

Joe Moore Pretty much, yes.

[@jackhentschel2223]

it is relatively accurate. Name the biggest thing Lin got wrong

[@SkepticalChris]

Art has many purposes. In this case I feel that John Adam's response is completely justified. This "Art" claims itself to be historic, and he is upset because he knows that future generations will see this "Historic" moment as truth when in fact it never happened. What some call artistic liberties, unless they labeled as fiction, cannot ever be taken as truthful or historic because changes have already been made to an otherwise historical situation.

[@dalepeto9620]

It's irrelevant weather they were all there at the same time. So I disagree.

[@JB-gw7xf]

@@dalepeto9620 I disagree completely. We should respect what the founders did for the country. We should seek to understand the issues they faced and how they faced them and form our own opinions accordingly. We should never deify them. They were humans just like the rest of us. Paintings like this, while pretty, are skirting the line of deification. The problem with deification is that subsequent generations don't recognize it as such and believe it to be the truth. It has taken us 200 years to acknowledge the flaws of our founders.

[@dalepeto9620]

@@JB-gw7xf The painting doesn't deify them or cover up their flaws

[@charlieangelone6831]

​@@dalepeto9620 yes it does. there was no peace, it was chaos to get that document signed by a majority of the founding fathers

[@zackthebongripper7274]

It must have been incredibel to live in those 20 years after the revolution.

[@IanP1963]

incredible

[@nethysian3773]

Much more chaotic than you'd think. Might I suggest reading 'Empire of Liberty' for this period :)

[@TheJoester1992]

Thank God for John Adams.

[@TheMonkeyThatDoesYourJobBetter]

I think the paintings of the American Revolution were highly dramatized. I'm pretty sure a lot of these men in this painting were scared for their lives. They also had a lot on their shoulders. They were in death's path, they had an entirely new country to engineer, and they had families. John Adams in this scene was correct, this painting is a singularity. It only shows one scene, and it's too tranquil to call it historically accurate.

[@josh18230]

I see what you are sayimg, and I do think the criticism of the art is a valid one to be made, but it still disappoints me that Adams could not see the "American" essence of the painting that he fought so hard to create. Adams by this point was concerned that political parties would ruin America and that he would be seen in history as a tyrant. The painting conveys that America can unite with mixtures of different opinions and also shows Adams' unique role in it all. That should be an honor.

[@opetke]

I'm not certain that this conversation ever took place. If anyone can confirm or deny, I'd love to read it. But as to the scene, I would suspect that it was crafted to show Adam's ultimate disappointment in how the ideals (which are always lofty, whatever they are) were implemented pragmatically. This, at least, we know to be true from his writings.

[@valmid5069]

*“Fame is a bee. It has a song. It has a sting. Ah, too, it has a wing”* -Emily Dickinson Some could argue our founding fathers would react strongly this way towards Hamilton the Musical (which I enjoyed)

[@joesteers1940]

If you want to really learn about history then you have to find good , reliable and unbiased authors. They do exist, people who truly care about presenting history truthfully. Unfortunately documentaries, miniseries’ and films all aim to make a profit for those involved in its filming , acting , production and promotion. It’s just money making. The vision... take a historical theme or event that people find slightly interesting, cut out all the ‘overwhelming mundane stuff’ and simplify it... keep the lofty speeches , dramatic battle scene’s and turbulent romances. Most people like easy viewing and dislike complexity . They want history presented in black and white. Heroes vs villains.

[@rogaldorn3947]

2:54 wow. What a telling line that speaks for today.

[@vivavasuviuspodcast]

Perhaps the director was poking fun at some of the "creative license" they had used in this certain parts of this mini-series? Great scene!

[@117rebel]

The only thing I didn't like about this miniseries was that it didn't show John Adams during the war of 1812. I would have liked to know what he was doing during it.

[@Elsuper-dm8sy]

117rebel probably there wasn't any recorded documents about John Adams opinion or reaction to the War of 1812?

[@serpentsepia6638]

Or documents may have been destroyed.

[@IronMan-tk8uc]

Probably yes. After he left the White House in 1800, he completely retired from public life. And it was during the 1810s that he was corresponding with Jefferson about past mistakes and hopes for the future of the U.S.

[@sarcastic4982]

busy being retired most likely

[@Nebulasecura]

He had most likely retired from politics entirely by that point. Just wore him down by the time he left office a decade prior

[@davidosterman5016]

"all dead excerpt me and Jefferson" . . .I thought Benjamin Harrison was the last signer to pass.

[@aaronaustin225]

David Osterman Charles Carrol was the last

[@dylanvalenti5545]

How iconic that image would become. Amazing scene

[@PtolemyCeasar]

A masterpiece on a masterpiece.

[@NOMADcourier85]

I wonder what Jefferson thought of the painting...?

[@crimsoncomet1341]

If you figure it out, let me know, haha.

[@dalepeto9620]

In the painting Adams is front and center. Adams SHOULD have been a very happy and contented man

[@beatleboy9020001]

they portray trumball to be way too young in this. he would have 70 in 1826

[@Shatamx]

2:32 chills from that line.

[@terragthegreat175]

Whats funny is, the painting is not meant to show the signing. Trumbull was very clear that he wanted to depict the committee that drafted it introducing the document to the congress, not it's signing.

[@eatshit2863]

One painting with all patriots or 17 paintings with a few coming and going. Just put a disclaimer on it. A "representation" of events that occurred throughout the summer of 1776. I love this painting.

[@RedTV8888]

You'd think this was about the history of the Netherlands with all these Dutch angles

[@rredhawk]

I always thought they all signed it on the same day (July 4th) but was later told only Hancock signed it that day while everyone else signed it days or even weeks later, when they could, as stated in this video clip.

[@rikk319]

It was approved on July 2nd. The announcement to the public was made July 4th.

[@JoKeR2280]

I wonder what Adams would think about our current situations in the world and with this particular administration. Very powerful movie

[@raj_kumar0]

I think he would have been happy to see the US become the 'shining city on the hill'

[@AbrahamLincoln4]

I approve of this.

[@Zomfoo]

No one ever claimed Adams was gracious or merciful.

[@FLASK904]

I think this is a commentary from the show authors towards our regard for the founding fathers in the present. Historical accuracy aside, I believe the show is talking about how history often times overlooks the details for the grander picture that never actually existed. So often in today's politics and law we talk about the founding fathers and their "intentions", when in reality this show spent a majority of the time showing that their intent was at times simply not to fail. In today's times, perhaps it is a lesson we can all take to account. To look towards the ghosts of the past for answers and pray that we hear their whispers while our present is left in inaction and dissolution. We partake in revolution at the ballot box one that rips down the a set upon course for perhaps a new one. We should not forget that the Republic we take for granted is not a thing of the past creation that we simply have to tend to. But one that we must continue to create anew.

[@Chevelin_X]

Historic ideation of how we want history because real history is never clean and ugly ridden in its detail prospects.

[@MECowhey]

When I first watched this scene on HBO I too was surprised by how Adams reacted. That's because I wasn't listening to what Adams was saying. The true history of our revolution will never be known. In the scene where Adams and Jefferson write letters back and forth Adams asks "who will write the history of our revolution?" Jefferson responds "You ask who will write the history of our revolution...nobody except merely it's external facts". So much truth is lost through revisionist history.

[@zyzor]

I would have laughed so hard if when he said "you sir are no Reuben's." , he followed with:"You sir are a vain imposter and base defiler unworthy of good name. Good day to you."

[@JonBaldie]

“REMOVE YOURSELF, SIR!” 😂

[@donaldnewton3149]

@@JonBaldie It's funny when disciplining his son, he refers to him as "Sir." No way in today would a Father yelling at his six year old child would call him sir unless under sarcastic or self-amusement circumstance.

[@JRandaII]

In school we learned that one should never ask John Adams his opinion, because he would surly tell you...

[@pavarottiaardvark3431]

The point in such a painting is NOT to accurately recreate a historic scene. In a time before photos, websites, before MASS LITERACY, this sort of painting was the best way to communicate "these were the people who did this thing"

[@ProjectGrandMarauder]

I like the idea of the painting - we need to remember our fore fathers as heroes, not as fearful men.

[@macklinflaherty6588]

Damn, I would feel like shit if I was that painter.

[@reelsmad6247]

This scene is a self criticism by the creators and a reminder for the viewers that even it looks a perfect retelling, it has exaggeration.

[@TGOIIHome]

Performance beyond Outstanding and a very honest represtation of the The John Adams

[@serpentsepia6638]

It would be difficult to paint a painting of several founding fathers scurrying through the door all summer long. This painting wasn't meant to be an exact duplicate of how the signing took place, only that it represents the signing. Sadly, this was taught as history in public schools instead of what actually took place. Public schools....

[@EGarrett01]

At Trinity College in the UK, there's a marble statue of Isaac Newton holding a prism and staring up to the heavens, with the inscription in Latin, "in intellect he surpassed the human race." I always thought a more accurate, and in fact more honorable sculpture would be of Newton and John Flamsteed playing backgammon with the Principia sitting next to Newton on the table.

[@definitely_notme4112]

Adams says they’re all dead except him and jefferson, but one other signer, Charles Carroll of Maryland lived until 1832.

[@robfritz841]

Perhaps some artist who is a fan of Adams’ remarks here could paint a more accurate version; an empty room, nobody in the chairs, except perhaps a tired custodian, and perhaps a couple Continental guards, awaiting laconically for a Delegate to come in and sign the Declaration, sitting splayed out on the desk with empty mugs on each corner to keep the parchment flat, and another mug full of quills beside an inkwell? It would be a fitting tribute to how Congress now acts; the original Trumball being renamed, “Congress Posing For The Press” and the new likeness, “Congress Before the Invention of the Signing Ceremony”

[@ardalla535]

Adams arguing for a point that would not be promoted until the advent of the German school of history under Von Ranke quite a few years later sounds a bit strange, but not impossible, coming from the mouth of John Adams. Would Adams have really been that concerned about historical verisimilitude in the age of prominence of the likes of Carlyle and Macauley who cared very little for checking primary source material when they wrote? An account by Edmund Adams, who was in attendance when John Adams reviewed the painting 1818, said: He seemed carried back to his prime of manhood, and to the most famous scene of his life, and he gave his warm approval to the picture as a correct representation of the Convention. “There is the door,” said he, “through which Washington escaped when I nominated him as Commander-in-Chief of the Continental Army!”

[@kwd3109]

I thought this scene was a bit overacted to the point of embarrassment, especially the last sigh Adam's makes as he leaves the room. Maybe it was the actor's disgust for having to say those fictional lines.

[@rale_p229]

Great men! 🇺🇸♥️

[@BlueGoblin1]

An old grump. He lost so much for the sake of his country. But he was able to find his friend again before the end.

[@crixxxxxxxxx]

Trumbull’s father was the Governor of Connecticut during the Revolution and a close friend to Washington.

[@homerrush3239]

By the light of dawn too evenings sorrow

[@Thoralmir]

Then again, is a young a country as ours, all we have is who we want to be.

[@plaidzebra5526]

What no love for Charles Carroll? He was the last member that signed the deceleration of independence to pass away in 1832. Sounds like they dropped the ball with historical accuracy much like what Adams was preaching.

[@jeffdwyer6105]

At least the painting resides in the Capitol today , I saw it blocked with scaffolding during the last renovation

[@DownButNotOutYet]

If you ask a man for his opinion, don't be surprised when it does not meet your expectations to stroke the ego.

[@inkstersco]

@hanno21664 I thought he said "shin-piece", referring to the outdated legwear.

[@Martoune112233]

I for one would question the integrity of a republic if all the members of each delegation were not present in a painting to symbolize the birth of said republic, even if history dictates that they were not all there at the same time to sign as the painting depicts. Rather the painting encompasses the true meaning of a republic by showing each delegation member as being united in a single cause, all represented at its conception, for each man sent represented in himself a portion of the colony he came from. In this painting we see the colonies, the qualities of the individual ideals valued by the colonies, and commonalities that bound them at the republic's inception.

[@vitanus]

3:35 Dont worry, it will be recovered. Turns out enough smart and good people in our modern days are interested in real, unchanged history! We wanna know what happened, when it happened, how it happened, we wanna know who lied and who told the truth, we wanna study the character of the people involved, we want to know their motives, upbringing and past. We will scramble the informations together, analyzing the sources, throw out the fiction and only keep the unquestionable (If possible) truth! So don´t you worry, Mr.Adams. We have your back

[@bdrobe2]

Cool. Thanks!

[@mcrdl76]

Another falsehood-Charles Carroll of Maryland outlived both Adams and Jefferson as the last surviving signatory of the Declaration of Independence..

[@Jarial7]

The painting was meant to inspire those who came after It was a metaphor it was not about people coming into town it was about an idea You are trying to inspire those who want the truth it was telling a story as the painter said it was poetic license and there was only so much money to achieve that Maybe he was just being human and being old and cantankerous It was never meant to illustrate the truth many more would do that but show a point in time and those who conceived it

[@yeldarb322]

Doesn't this kind of feel like the show patting itself on the back?

[@jmitterii2]

Its actually smacking itself in the face. Some of the things depicted in the series were not historically accurate either and pumped up for... dramatic effect... poetic license. And the artist in this scene was 63 years old if this is 1819... but they mention its about to be purchased for the rotunda so that's 1826 so he's 70. That guy in the hat pretending to be the artist John Trumbull is looking fantastic for a 70 year old.

[@YesWeCantaloupe]

I'm studying hard to become a teacher. Gawd I can't wait to teach social studies. :-)

[@joshhoodrat451]

“11 years later”. Voice from SpongeBob

[@Chris-tn9zx]

John adams grandfather is my 11th great grandfather

[@donniedarko979]

Oh how we are screwing it up John.

[@thegeoinnitreator]

Adams forgot Charles Carroll, who lived longer than Jefferson

[@sportsretrospective6759]

John Adams was absolutely right. Context!

[@Hard_Boiled_Entertainment]

@ThomasAnime JQ clears his throat loudly, knowing full well that his father is NOT concerned in the least whether the picture "does him justice". Adams is too focused on the insult to his memories of the darkness of those times....

[@MainiacBrainiac]

More sources: James Madison: What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries."

[@TheFlutecart]

The signing of that document was like Pirates signing a charter to mutiny. And that is what it was. USA, a nation by Pirates for Pirates. Now days they sail the high seas of finance and corporate law. Taking it all and giving nothing back.

[@williamwinder3466]

1:02 And Charles Carroll. In fact he was the last surviving Founding Father.

[@MainiacBrainiac]

More sources: Thomas Paine: "I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my church. "

[@evi1520]

Does anyone know the name of the track that played during this scene?

[@hanno21664]

hello enjoyed your post,yes what a great questions what should we consider?I DONT KNOW I worked to the history department at ASU one prof.I contacted said he loved that part and chastized the painting,another prof. said he Adams loved it.yet a third prof. said Adams didnt even look at it.MY own research had lead me to believe that Adams hated it making multiple comments,one of which you stated,up until the day he died.what should we consider is best answered over dinner and sharing ideas.

[@Phoenix-ih8qq]

*As Adams is walking out: Trumbull: Cough...DOUCHE..cough...

[@davidfitzgerald3653]

You should see him at a party

[@douglasvanderpool9605]

I laughed at the fact that this scene actually depicts Adams complaining about fictional history. When this whole miniseries is filled with fictional scenes.

[@crimsoncomet1341]

The John Adams-King George meeting is actually done really accurately, down to the exact lines they say to each other.

[@ashtonlambert7673]

what a critic

[@PatFussy069]

The actual date everyone started signing the Declaration of Independence, started not completely signed is August 2nd. It's also my birthday & I actually take pride that a lot of my personality is reflected in an event like that happened on my birthday. My siblings birthday is also April 9th the date the confederates surrendered, & we're also interracial.

[@funnyjuk]

In Quincy Adam's son, Edmund's recollection of the event, he described this scene differently. Although he was only 10 at the time. He said: "I well remember being one of the party which accompanied Mr. Adams to see Trumbull’s picture. Faneuil Hall was full of spectators when we arrived, and what impressed the scene upon my boyish memory was the respectful manner in which all the men took off their hats when Mr. Adams entered leaning on my mother’s arm, and remained uncovered while he stayed. Room was made for him by common consent, so that he could see the picture to the best advantage. He seemed carried back to his prime of manhood, and to the most famous scene of his life, and he gave his warm approval to the picture as a correct representation of the Convention. 'There is the door,' said he, 'through which Washington escaped when I nominated him as Commander-in-Chief of the Continental Army!' "

[@JaySeraphon]

Thank you for illuminating this. But as rings true, echoing Paul Giamatti in the video above, with time it will be lost.

[@lewstone5430]

Edmund be like, “Daddy was chill, yo.”

[@Gala-yp8nx]

@@JaySeraphon Paul Giamatti’s rendition is a modern critique of mythologizing the “Founding Fathers”.

[@WarmasterJoshmaul]

Minor correction/qualification: that would be Edmund Quincy, son of Josiah Quincy III, who would later be mayor of Boston. He also recalled Adams' comment that Benjamin Harrison V, the father of William Henry Harrison, didn't look fat enough in the painting. Benjamin Rush recalled that Harrison had actually joked to Elbridge Gerry that he (Harrison) was so heavy, he'd die in a few minutes in the event the British hanged them for treason, whereas Gerry was so light he'd be kicking the air for an hour or so before he died.

[@trevorrowland2562]

I feel like John Adams would have the same reaction to the History Channel's recent "Sons of Liberty" series...

[@MrKajithecat]

Most indeed.

[@wanderinrambler6200]

Trevor Rowland That series was a national embarassment. History channel has done a grave disservice to the historical community.

[@PeteinFlorida]

100% Correct

[@Awakin2liberty]

I haven't seen it. But let me guess...Aliens!

[@mr.bluependant1871]

And let’s not forget Hamilton.

[@SaxonC]

Amazing how Adams and Jefferson both died on July 4th 1826..

[@ichigo2012hollowmask]

They themselves probably could not have imagined a more fitting passing away for old men like them.

[@h1ph0pjunk1e]

If thats not a sign from god, idk what is.

[@historyprofessor1985]

And James Monroe on July 4, 1831

[@ColtonRDean]

Of course they did.

[@IamBrixTM]

Soul brothers.

[@freddyfan951]

That poor artists. Invites that historical titan to see his homage to him only to be told how awful he thinks it is. I would die of embarrassment if that happened to me.

[@GiangLe-kg4vn]

Freddyfan951 well at least this scene is fictional, in reality President Adams only pointed at the door on the painting and said "when I nominated Washington to be commander he took his hat and rush to that door" or something

[@danbytp]

Freddyfan951 Adams was being Adams.Always saying what is on his mind.God love him!

[@IronMan-tk8uc]

Some aspects of Adams in this scene I agree as well. "A matter of detail" like Trumbull said; details to me are extremely important, life itself is in the details, therefore he was a little condescending to the former president. The painting is nonetheless beautiful, no doubt, but the basis, the premise in which it was painted, well, it wasn't the best.

[@cuchulain1647]

Artists create “art”, which is not reality, and rarely even attempts to reflect it. Art is wonderful, but passing art off as history is..... Shitty.

[@JonatasMonte]

It was honest at least.

[@anonymousanonymous7250]

The irony is that this whole conversation about not putting in things that never happened... Never happened. In fact, all he did was point to a door in the back of the painting and say, "When I nominated George Washington to be commander in chief of the Continental Army, he took his hat and went right out that door." Plus, not all the signers are in the painting.

[@terragthegreat175]

Also the picture doesn't depict the signing of the document, but it's introduction to the congress by the drafting ccommittee. This makes sense since you can see jefferson, adams, and Franklin showing the document to john hancock

[@jwrubel243]

True this event never took place but it reflects John Adams feelings toward how history was being portrayed. He wrote in his journal often late in his life how the whole revolution was be seen as a bunch of lies

[@leivabernie]

This scene is a criticism of the show itself, that not even a well researched show can even come close to the truth. Its sort of a microcosm of history.

[@iVenge]

FAKE NEWS! FAKE NEWS! 😳😆

[@benjaminmartin3603]

You would not deny the artist a certain license....

[@mr.dr.prof.patrick7284]

I think it’s extremely eerie that not only adams, but Jefferson too, both died exactly 50 years (half a century) after the declaration was signed. To the day. That is just insane.

[@Doowoo]

Its not insane.. Its random.

[@RickRoss440]

Actually the Declaration of Independence was signed on July 2nd. It was published on July 4th.

[@Gravelgratious]

The will to live and the will to die are one and the same. Once both of them found out the date they could finally let go. I reckon it was the final goal for both of them.

[@NOMADcourier85]

Only in America

[@mr.dr.prof.patrick7284]

@@Doowoo i don’t need you to tell me what adjectives to use Mr doody

[@BuckandOden]

It was actually John Randolph, who critisized the painting as a "shin piece". Adams actually defended it from that jab. Adams respected Turnbull, who was a veteran officer of the revolutionary war.

[@michaelh13]

Trumbull

[@JohnnyDeur]

@@michaelh13 I think he was right, the man was a Turnbull. He turned the truth into bull , simple as that pal.

[@newmantopia]

@@michaelh13 Is OP not entitled to poetic license?

[@anonymousanonymous7250]

"Except for me and Jefferson." There was a third guy still alive, and he lived until 1832.

[@frankstrukel764]

xzhxxxwfnxj. Y anonymous anonymous cRA do

[@anonymousanonymous7250]

Frank Strukel ?

[@theefrankguy]

I might buy that. But try to think about this. How many people do you know of from history that lived to be 90 years old like John Adams did in his lifetime? (October 30, 1735 - July 4, 1826)!!!.

[@cpegg5840]

Charles Carroll of Carollton is who anonymous is speaking of.

[@anonymousanonymous7250]

C Pegg Thank you.

[@pong2730]

This mini series is a work of art itself.

[@Sevatar_VIIIth]

Is it worth the $20 to buy it on YT? Never knew this series existed but I've recently watched clips and seems interesting.

[@NeverSaySandwich1]

​@@Sevatar_VIIIthyes it is, you'll want to revisit it often

[@GodsFavoriteBassPlyr]

@@NeverSaySandwich1 - Agreed. I bought the series on disc, and watch it at least every other year. McCullough did recognize that the film took some liberties with certain details, but also understood why, for the sake of time, they were 'condensed'.

[@ChooseDharma]

@@Sevatar_VIIIth It's worth no less than $100. Trust me it's an amazing piece of work. One of the best shows ever made. It's a pot of gold for history buffs out there.

[@LandsbergLaw]

"SHIN PIECE! All Legs and Ankles" My 6 year old laughs every time I say that.

[@shadowthoughts7959]

They were the thighs of their time, as men went.

[@Allenryan819]

Actually James Monroe, Charles Carroll, And James Madison we’re alive at the time, and all out lived Jefferson, and Adams. Charles Carroll was the last founding father to die in 1832. 6 years after Adams, and Jefferson.

[@Nebulasecura]

True, however a majority of those men I don’t believe John Adams himself had actually interacted with on a significant political level like he had with Jefferson and Franklin. don’t quote me on that, though

[@jimmyliao3249]

James Madison was the last founder father to die in 1836. Monroe in 1831, and Carroll one of founders and signers in the Declaration of Independence and the last surviving one died in 1832

[@njebei]

Monroe and Madison didn't sign the Declaration of Independence and therefore weren't in the painting. Madison was a member of the Virginia House of Burgesses at the time of the signing but not appointed to the Congress. Monroe was a lieutenant under Washington's command.

[@tylergagnon1613]

The portrait is talking about the signers of the “Declaration of independence” James Monroe and Madison didn’t sign the document. Carroll signed the document. However, he never casted a vote for the document, and only got voted in just in time to sign it. Carroll was never in that big founding father inner circle. It’s unknown if Adams or Carroll ever said 2 words to each other. They might have been cordial to each other if their paths crossed.

[@schwakyl000]

I love John Quincy’s little “hmph” when Trumble asks what he thinks, like he already knew that was a bad idea to open that particular can of worms 😂

[@Afalstein]

"No, please don't ask him if he approves, he never approves of anything."

[@rollotwomassey]

Trumbull deserved a better reception than that.