John Cale about Lou Reed

[@Guitarkid1991]

John Cale is the man who made Nick Drake's Northern Sky even more beautiful with the Celeste, piano, and composing the middle 8th!

[@Oh_I_Will]

Guitarkid 1991 along with Kirby's orchestea arrangements...if only the professional help was more prominent during those years he could have seen the resurgence of his career after the Volkswagen commercial introduced his catalog to a broader audience...

[@Marco_Venieri]

john cale collaborated also with brian eno and nico

[@michaelmcdonald8452]

@@Oh_I_Will that is a silly suggestion

[@liammcooper]

i didnt know that, nice

[@sarahwelty9223]

He also played the harpsichord on Nick Drake's album.

[@krisscanlon4051]

Every time I get to missing Lou I realize Cale is still with us which is somewhat comforting

[@VeryScaryBiscuits]

He gives a thoughtful physiological analysis after every question he's asked. This is why i love John Cale. A very intelligent man, as i think Lou is, but both in different ways

[@salvie5]

Cale is a welsh poet, reed is an American poet

[@lrwiersum]

Lou was struggling with what a lot of us have struggled with. I enjoy John Cale, I identify with Lou.I have never shot Heroin,but even after 33 years of sobriety, I identify with the feeling of wanting to get seriously gone, blotto.I spent many years of my life lost,lost,lost.Lou's music is a backward affirmation to this day.

[@StrayCatBlues666]

There is no comparison really they are both fantastic artist and have Two different styles.

[@michaelmcdonald8452]

Does someone appear to be saying otherwise?

[@rosemarymills1671]

He thinks very deeply before conveying his thoughts. Like he weighs anything he says. Conversationally correct. I love to listen to him!

[@777RockNRollin]

I am in rock n roll Heaven when these geniuses discuss their craft ,....

[@lazyriver2]

I have a CD set of The Island Years, his great three albums for Island Records. Absolutely remarkable songwriter and musician. So underrated it is a shame. I have always ranked him with Bowie, Ferry, Reed, and Eno, after Lennon and McCartney, of course. "You Know More Than I Know" and "Buffalo Ballet" two faves. So many more memorable songs. I am grateful for his music. A true Godsend for me.

[@ForARide]

Lorenzo Furioso why do you put Lennon and McCartney above the other musicians you have mentioned? I personally think that without the aid of Brian Epstein as their brilliant manager who sold them to the world, and George Martin as their genius producer and arranger The Beatles would have never attained that God-like status. John Cale on the other hand was a young musical prodigy, started playing the piano aged six, and joined the welsh youth orchestra aged 14, where he picked up playing the viola and learned to play several other instruments. Cale went on to study musicology at Goldsmiths' College in London in the early sixties, until he was awarded a Leonard Bernstein scholarship at the Berkshire Music Center in Tanglewood, Massachusetts in 1963, where he would refine his studies of experimental composition under his tutor Yannis Xenakis. During that time he collaborated with John Cage and joined La Monte Young´s Theater of Eternal Music in 1964, further improving and broadening his skills on the ´drone`. Later that year John would bump into Lou, and the rest is history... After being dismissed from The Velvets by Lou in 1968, Cale went on to produce the debut albums of Iggy´s Stooges, Patti Smith and Jonathan Richman´s Modern Lovers, all milestone lp´s in the shaping of Punk and Alternative music. With Nico he created the first Goth sound on her albums The Marble Index and Desertshore in the late 60´s and early 70´s, arranging both and producing the former. From his solo debut Vintage Violence in 1970 on until his most recent lp M:FANS in 2016, John Cale has explored almost every musical genre ranging from Rock. Pop, Classical, Experimental, Jazz, Country, Electronical, Blues, World, whatever genre, you name it. And on stage JC is known never to repeat himself, always rearranging his songs and sound so every gig is unique. So considering all these facts, I doubt that there is any musician in the Rock and Pop world that matches Cale´s musical knowledge and versatality.. I´ll keep it with Lou Reed: "I only hope that one day John will be recognized as ... the Beethoven or something of his day. He knows so much about music, he's such a great musician. He's completely mad - but that's because he's Welsh."

[@RealAsaMitaka]

Cale simply oozes of cool

[@duskfun9154]

Both Lou Reed and John Cale were musical and literary geniuses in their own way. Lou was the core songwriter, and John tweaked them into the experimentally incredible songs that they were. The VU didn't go to shit after Cale left, they just simply lost a part of their unique sound. And both went on to create great music in their solo careers.

[@dogjohnny559]

In what way was Lou the core songwriter? The VU went to shit after Cale left and he was far more progressive than Lou

[@anuragdeshpande6101]

The first one leaned towards lou and the white light/white heat leaned towards cale I feel like. But they both have that lou-cake partnership

[@franzdekelver4012]

Lou Reed was initially more into folk, listen to his demos of songs before VU, he learned a lot of John Cale for making his own sound

[@duskfun9154]

@@dogjohnny559 i honestly dont remember making this initial comment. but i guess what i probably meant is that Lou came up with ideas in his room with just him and the guitar, and then brought them in their infancy to the band where the rest of the members would then add the arms and legs and make it a "completed" song

[@duskfun9154]

@@anuragdeshpande6101 totally agreed

[@pitchforkcustom]

he spoke very nicely about it and threw in a massive pinch of art

[@ConnieLynchitzWhoElse]

For a man who was raised to speak Welsh and didn't learn English until the age of 7 I think he articulates quite well.

[@michaelmcdonald8452]

You realize Welsh and English aren’t really that different, right? You say that like his native language is Swedish or something.

[@MegaGamerClown]

@@michaelmcdonald8452 They are very very different. A quick google search even says that English is closer to Scandinavian languages than it is to Welsh.

[@fviland]

@@michaelmcdonald8452 this sentence would be better if you greeck or chinise

[@freddiewadling2090]

"He seemed extremely vulnerable." I bet that would surprise a lot of people, to hear that assessment of Lou Reed. And that Cale could see it, and give that reply so instantly, probably says a lot about why they worked so well together.

[@zorgzarg9849]

As do I, but he's Welsh, as were/are Richard Burton, Anthony Hopkins, and Dylan Thomas. They're a nation of fine voices.

[@bookmanjb7765]

I saw both of them perform often in NYC in the 70's. No one who knows anything about music or musicianship would say that Reed was the better musician. But he was the better performer, no question.

[@JeffaHensley]

Bookman JB in your opinion.

[@ForARide]

No way! Here´s an example of Cale performing Waiting For The Man: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fXuZo4aojrh0mMk and Venus In Furs: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z2aqeJ9tq9t6jMk You show me any Reed performance that matches Cale´s intensity and stage presence!

[@II-xl7lj]

Rather, someone who doesn't know anything about music will consider Reed a bad musician. The way he handled the guitar was too unique to write off

[@v1m]

Fascinating, gifted man is Cale. It's little wonder -- but no less sad for it -- to find dullards on here complaining about his manner of speech. Tuned to the blather of their TV sets, their CNN and FOX universes, many Americans have never heard any but the most facile expression in broadcasts. The great joke now is that any moron can post his thoughts, including a great many who have been fooled into thinking this means they have something to say. Poor dears; the Internet is the toilet where your bowels are collected for posterity.

[@brettgodefroi9118]

Too bad he's Welsh! I hate Welsh people with a passion!

[@arsmagicaarteficii5808]

Brett Godefroi Yes, you said it twice already. No one cares...

[@captpogossian]

+v1m You're absolutely right but this is, for the most part, the collective id.

[@louise_rose]

From listening to this interview and his appraisal of Reed's struggle to find himself, it's amazing that they lasted four or five years at the helm of the same band, together. Sure there must have been a lot of infighting...

[@juliec5877]

Lou Reed :) John Cale :)

[@almishti]

After yesterday, this is even more of a moving tribute.

[@LowBid86]

He had contempt for the media and spoke carefully, knowing that the camera was on.

[@aragee]

RIP Lou...

[@MowgliX]

Vulnerabubble. :)

[@smithjedediah]

@Hister333 I grew up in a hill town in rural Western Massachusetts, which is also on the Appalachian range, and I personally think those are some of the finest people in the country.

[@piechulla1966]

@lazyriver2 Actually, his album "Words for the dying" was produced by Brian Eno. But we also have to thank the Orchestra of Symphonic & Popular Music of Gosteleradio, USSR. They performed "The Falklands Suite" for this album.

[@thiscorrosion900]

The great thing about Lou was that he was almost totally hostile....

[@silvi01977]

@MrLeagueOJustice Cale is just picking his words carefully and thinking about what he's saying. I know this could be an anathema to some Americans but that's one of the reasons why he's such a great artist.

[@ToxicMayo9]

I really think Cale was the true genius in VU

[@detleframich1072]

❤❤❤😎

[@guitarplayer30001]

At 0:04 "oh no not this question again ima drink a pint of vodka now"

[@VincesVinyl]

@MrLeagueOJustice He's incredible articulate her. Very consise. What are you missing?

[@mongeyjames9170]

What year was that interview?

[@BenCulture]

Of course, Lou was the best. And it seems his best VU singing was recorded practically at random at gigs, like on 1969: Live with Lou Reed - just fantastic, sensitive singing that went up and down with the dynamics of the band. I read a Sterling Morrisson interview, where he'd objected to the band scheduling so many gigs before beginning the Loaded sessions, because he KNEW Lou would blow out his voice, and he did, but in some ways, like on "Sweet Jane", his stylistic compensation was worth it.

[@davidbenner6551]

Ben Culture a

[@astroboirap]

haha true. you either like lou reed or you've met him goes the quote. i cant believe one of the driving forces of alternative rock was a welshman lol

[@ForARide]

John Cale never got properly credited for his musical impetus, being the main creative force in terms of exploring new musical and sonic territory on TVU&N and WL/WH. On both lp´s it should have been lyrics: Lou Reed; music Lou Reed AND John Cale. But Lou´s selfishness would have none of that. This was also part of their disputs, beside the musical battles in which direction The Velvets should evolve. So let the two battle it out once again, this time on stage, who, in a musical sence was the real top dog: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qpaXaYWfdqpondU

[@Hister333]

@Bickieundspielen It looks good to me. But I only get to see it on the five days of sunshine when they film Doctor Who and Torchwood.

[@brianwarner308]

damn those long pauses get on my last nerve

[@winogirlll]

Me too Mr. Manson.

[@MrDildoBagginsIII]

+Brian Warner i didn't mind them so much, Butt Head

[@brianwarner308]

MrDildoBagginsIII well I'm glad, I was worried about you.

[@MrDildoBagginsIII]

I was worried that you were worried about me so I had to check in. :D

[@ModMokkaMatti]

Bilbo Baggins lives in a tree, whips out his peter for all to see.

[@suledrake]

I find that the Welsh accent sounds very similar to the British Indian accent.

[@theredstheredstheredsthereds]

he's a welshman from india

[@edwardmulholland7912]

Cale is a magician and a genius and he got to work with another genius - Lou Reed. Reed wanted commercial success more than the idea of creating art and Cale was coming from the other direction. The work that they did together has stood the test of time, and they both made great music apart. The major difference between them is that Cale had a superior talent for collaboration. Reed could behave like an asshole, what is less well known is that Cale was often not the easiest person to work with either. They will always be forever tied together. I think they both loved and hated each other. Cale often bad mouthed Reed - perhaps for good reasons. Only those 2 know why.

[@sarahwelty9223]

Reed made a pass at Cale before they became famous and when Cale made it clear to Reed that he wasn't interested, that started the tensions between them which just escalated.

[@edwardmulholland7912]

@@sarahwelty9223 I heard that story and believe it, it’s certainly one of the twists in their relationship. It wouldn’t surprise me if Cale mourns the fact that Reed is no longer around - in spite of everything.

[@tedcantu1]

At this point these guys cannot do any wrong. Isnt this guy from New YOrk? I cant understand a word he is saying. Everything I need to know about these people are on those albums. AND.... AND... We need new heroes today.

[@bobdylan5067]

You... you prefer the Doug Yule era? Like... seriously? Better than the Velvet underground and Nico? What?

[@ewantaylor5626]

better than WLWH !!!

[@mhm33lp]

Over rated? Wow! By the way, that fabulous rock band VU that Reed was "part of" he also wrote most of it's timeless music. Lou + Reed = GENIUS. Now Heather "WAKE UP" and stop day dreaming! P.S. John + Cale = GENIUS too. Peace.

[@andaloudog]

I'm amazed that not one comment so far mentions the possibility that he might be under the influence. Which his speech indicates. Nonetheless, a bright guy.

[@whiteheadcm]

@codeastronomer now that's just plain funny

[@salal2007]

wish I could see all of the interview. Lovely to hear John Cale talking -and no, I don't agree he's not articulate. Thanks for posting anyway.

[@mikeschneider1624]

This guy.. but where is the push back? Where is the challenge? Cale was/is part of something great, i want to know more.

[@Bickieundspielen]

@Hister333 That is the common joke. it may be true. But wales is a lovley place, as I'm sure west Virginia is. P.S I'm English

[@MrVoyaging]

In addition, one of the main reasons musicians decided to create music is due to an inability to express ideas well through language. Music is a medium that can express ideas that are either difficult or impossible to express with language.

[@sarcasmo57]

Welp, now we know.

[@Lieu3C4]

Very much a pair of strongly individual, distinctive personalities. God forbid anyone should think to substitute a body double for one or the other; let alone both! (Although now that Msr.Reed "ist tot", the point would seem rather moot, at least on the one hand.)

[@4g5h6s]

John is just trying to be as honest as he can about Lou.

[@garysmith-vb8qv]

Hahahaha - I can't believe there are people on this page who honestly feel Lou was a better musician...do you folks have ears??? The Velvet Underground went to shit once Lou Ousted Cale. Cale is up there with the very, very best - the most underrated musician of the 20th/21st century without doubt. Cale was a natural genius, Lou worked very hard at it. The sheer scope of sound in Cale's music is a wonder!

[@garysmith-vb8qv]

Thats why we have different opinions - so we can express them! :0) First two VU albums were the real deal, once Cale 'left', so too did the magic! The 3rd album, when compared to the first 2, well...I'm sure you know what I mean!

[@nickosventuras8981]

gary smith Well, on the other hand, Lou wrote some masterpieces on his solo albums too... Compared to those, Cale's solo work is underwhelming...

[@garysmith-vb8qv]

Indeed, you are right Nickos, he did indeed write some masterpieces...however...Don't be ridiculous, you obviously haven't heard all of Cale's work. That's a dimwitted statement at best...mwahaha.

[@NadaCero]

I completely agree. Lou Reed wrote unique melodies and clever lyrics, but since John Cale was the only one who was classically trained, JC was able to bring the full magic out of the VU songs.

[@Youman71463]

I wouldn't say the VU went to shit when Cale was fired, it was another phase in Reed finding his footing. He was giving up on the avant-garde to some degree because it wasn't going anywhere for them. Reed was experimenting with drones in his music at the same time he met Cale, but I don't think he took it as seriously as Cale. Lou had "the ostrich" guitar which is how he and Cale met. There were sessions to promote this Pickwick Records thing Lou made up called The Ostrich and Cale was there because of mutual acquaintances and this pick-up band that was created to promote it needed a drummer, one thing lead to another and they met. Lou eventually got rid of Warhol because Exploding Plastic Inevitable really didn't cut it with the rock crowd he was trying to reach, I think more so than any personality conflicts. Reed was trying to make a living, not just experiment, saw himself as the leader and Cale as just part of the experiment but they were on the dole for the most part so Reed switched things up and went back to a more straight up rock and roll sound, which didn't suit Cale. I liked later VU, I think Reed was a good rhythm guitarist and stage presence for a garage band but it didn't save them, the damage was done and not many ppl in 1969-1970 were into such a stripped down sound. There was Cream and Hendrix, The Who, the Stones stripped down but loud enough and technically proficient enough to fill the spaces onstage and with a very full highly produced sound in the studio, like the Beatles and The Moody Blues. Floyd was out already, Led Zep was out, Black Sabbath were out, Tull were out, Yes and Genesis were out it was heading towards prog rock and metal by then and the VU couldn't compete with the tastes of the time. They sounded like Buddy Holly or Carl Perkins on drugs and not many cared. He eventually jumped in with Glam which was also struggling to break out, but again had a highly produced modern sound, Alice Cooper, David Bowie, Marc Bolan etc.

[@TheYogAndo]

He sounds like Nick Cave when he talks, or the other way around!

[@user-rh2csk]

Cale never seems to be comfortable with English. He sometimes employs unusual expressions that might be derived from Welsh.

[@ratonmagico]

@tedcantu1 john cale is welsh.

[@smithjedediah]

@Hister333 Wales is the Wales of Great Britain. Great Britain still has vast rural expanses, and Wales is one of them, though not entirely. I don't know what my point is, other than no, you're wrong. And I don't care if you're from West Virginia, you're obviously not from Scots-Irish Appalachian stock if you are willing to say ignorant stuff like that. More people in this country could do with the authenticity of those people.

[@JackKnight762]

the other two (Sterling ans Mo) were both Virgo

[@LusciousTwinkle]

That accent tho....so unusual.

[@sarahwelty9223]

It's Welsh.

[@TheSoundvisionary]

I'm sure he's sick of being asked the Lou Reed question a million times, if you take the Bowie/Ronson/Reed album Transformer, which was mostly rehashed VU songs that were unimpressive originally I'd say Cale's catalogue edges out Reed. While Reed was making crap like "Coney Island Baby" Cale was doing "Slow Dazzle" and such.

[@bobdy9988]

@Hister333 Yeah that's about correct lol. Except you can see the sun in West Virginia

[@voyeurcoma638]

Cale has a better body of work than Lou Reed and can sing fairely well Lou Reed cant stay in tune for more than one word,every ten songs. sorry Lou your last album lulu was fucking shit. everything else was ok except transformer which is a fuckin great record to challenge any great record. John Cale's back catalog is ninty percent super. by the way rest in peace Lou.

[@voyeurcoma638]

that is only in my opinion

[@voyeurcoma638]

just kidding equally talented and after the Velvet's they didn't really explore the same things lyrically and musically completely different trying to compare Cale and reed is like trying to compare strawberry and banana ice cream both bursting with great color and flavour in very different ways

[@voyeurcoma638]

no pun intended with the banana comment

[@Epicdino2912]

you're fucking insane haha

[@michael-h8y8t]

Longest two minutes of my life. What the hell was Cale even trying to say?

[@TheUnclerickie]

Funny thing about Avant Garde. You either get it or you don't. I don't and it makes me angry.

[@thiscorrosion900]

C'mon, you get it!

[@ModMokkaMatti]

Get angry like Hulk? Hulk SMASH!!!

[@rickc2102]

Maybe music isn't your thing for having its limits tested. Maybe you have something more important to test your limits of. It's not your fault that most everything after Schoenberg gets a bit ugly. Not everyone needs to embrace all the ugly. I've a friend who likes modern theater, and I like modern music, etc.

[@MrVoyaging]

Indeed, but I meant natural languages mostly.

[@ElimGarakSpoonHead]

“....um....”

[@reresimone4300]

i agree man was not a nice man. full stop. it fed his creativity x sure but to live with him must have been hell

[@BenCulture]

There are just certain people . . . You hear their "cadence", their general rhythm and tempo and overall way of talking . . . and, if you're old enough, you just KNOW you can't pay attention to it! This is one of those guys. I could read a transcriptrion of the interview. I'm sure I'd love to know his perspective, although I tend to prefer the Doug Yule era and the effort to make pleasant music. Thanks for posting it though. I think I see the "vulnerability" of Reed in Warhol's "screen test".

[@Hister333]

@CymroGoch You know what I meant. :p

[@BenCulture]

Yes, it's not an uncommon opinion. Specifically, Doug Yule was a far better singer than Nico. He was also more of a "natural" on the bass than John Cale. Cale was pushing them to experiment with sustaining long drones ("Venus in Furs"; Lou's "ostritch tuning" trick). They'd taken that road to a climax with "Sister Ray" and HAD to try something different. For whatever reason, Reed wrote better songs without Cale around. That's just how I feel.

[@ForARide]

Ben Culture what´s Lou's "ostritch tuning" trick on Venus in Furs? Cale was doing drones before he met Lou with La Monte Young´s Theater of Eternal Music, whom he joined in 1963.

[@Hister333]

@smithjedediah Don't confuse inbred with authentic.

[@cactaceous]

@Blackboilingrobotoil A brilliant one though. Genius like that can be perceived in many ways. His contempt for stupidity and ignorance can be perceived as dick behavior by some. I've never thought of him like that though, he just has a short tolerance for certain things. He is entitled in my opinion.

[@astroboirap]

"he seemed extremely vunerabubble" haha

[@JackKnight762]

both Pisces

[@Blackboilingrobotoil]

@cactaceous Oh I agree more or less. Just joking about the video.

[@brido8]

Some Welsh accent that

[@Savorist]

This answer makes no sense

[@renues]

Rammstein...

[@elvispresley718]

@MrLeagueOJustice george w,. bush would be another

[@tedcantu1]

@lesassassins Well Good ! LOL

[@caradonnelly8776]

He scares me. I love him but he scares me. Lou scares me too but he seemed approachable.. and not _that_ cold, right?

[@laurajones7316]

By all accounts, he's a really sweet man.

[@thiscorrosion900]

approachable? Nah. I was up pretty close to Lou in 2012 or so, he didn't seem approachable at all.

[@heatherdaydream]

JC is being diplomatic here because Reed is an over rated self-serving bully yet was part of the fabulous VU and of course must be acknowledged for that.

[@4g5h6s]

I think the two of them have wasted to many years in not working together because of this constant bickering back and forth. They could have accomplished so much more wonderful and terrific music together if they had just been able to get their acts together professionally. When they are on the right page with each other there is nothing better.

[@Misslotusification]

Crap like Coney Island Baby? Whaddya talking about?

[@sullivansongz]

Hang on a minute! It was for the coach!!

[@MrCaspar24]

Cale ... is being generous LR.. Reed was not fit to lace his boots ... hence his latest joke with heavy metal Metallica !

[@robbiepeterh]

Takes himself very seriously

[@grahambutcher8386]

I think someone over-dubbed the question which was originally: John Cale, care to talk bollocks?

[@captpogossian]

Hmm. Seems to me that he's expressing himself quite clearly, if a little hesitantly. Maybe you're just a bit thick?

[@VeryScaryBiscuits]

why do you put Bowie among "terrific musicians"? All he's done is look at what he thinks is cool at the time, and then rip it off almost directly (given he does put his own spin on it), to ensure his popularity

[@jccusell]

Zzz... Zzz... Zzz...

[@nicksundby]

Is this clever or just pretentious nonsense?

[@Legittoquit1]

Evil men jealous of nico

[@ForARide]

Cale jealous of Nico? Reed was, but Cale was so instrumental to Nico's music as producer and arranger. Educate yourself before posting bs!

[@Legittoquit1]

@ don’t man Splain . Your age group . I’d like to love you baby and my other baby too !