John Keats ON FIRST LOOKING INTO CHAPMAN’S HOMER analysis | POEM BACKGROUND & ROMANTICISM CONTEXT

[@DrOctaviaCox]

What strikes you about Keats’s poem?

[@63Speed63]

Well, I have much to say, but one thing Pope could've said to Keats would be, "Let me see you translate Homer."

[@DrOctaviaCox]

Touché! Keats didn't know Greek (and so couldn't translate Homer first-hand), but he did translate Virgil's _Aeneid_ when he was at school (sadly the manuscript does not seem to have survived). One might say that this was part of a poetic apprenticeship. Interestingly, William Wordsworth (who had been very rude about Pope's Homer for many decades) softened his criticism somewhat when he attempted to translate the _Aeneid_ in the 1820s (he only got as far as Book 4).

[@sue1342]

@@DrOctaviaCox I suppose Keats is criticizing not so much Pope's competence in translating, as the end product on its own terms. Keats is not in a position to know how faithful the translation is, only how well it reads. And I guess the success of Pope's (or Chapman's) translation depends on what exactly the translator was trying to achieve, whether that's fidelity to the original, poetic skill, readability, or whatever. I agree, not an easy job!

[@jonathankinsman7354]

Primarily the juxtapositioning of images and language. He moves comfortably in ancient times (using archaic words and images) and in contemporary events: the recent discovery of Uranus (1781) and Balboa in Panama. This serves to bring the excitement and enthusiasm they had over the night reading Chapman in folio. It is a sonnet (little song) that to many of us resonates and echoes in our daily experiences of "Eureka!" and epiphanic moments.

[@ImCarolB]

As someone who traveled widely from my younger days, I have always thought of the opening as saying that one can actually go to the places of great history, but not understand it until one is acquainted with or immersed in the cultural voice of that history. As a teenager, visiting interesting places inspired me to read history and learn about their art and literature. Of course, that made me determined to revisit those places and walk around "to breathe" the physical place. Of course, this ignores Keats' homage to Chapman, but there are so many layers.

[@DrOctaviaCox]

I agree Carol - it can be read in many ways. I imagine that someone who has travelled widely and "many goodly states and kingdoms seen" in the flesh will interpret the lines differently from someone, perhaps like Keats himself, who had not travelled widely in reality, but who travelled imaginatively to those ancient places through reading about them.

[@missioncardiac7599]

Wow, that was a deep and wonderful discussion of this poem. Thank you. Not having this knowledge of the anti neo classical poetry sentiment, when I first read the poem as a teenager I principally thought of Keats’s gratitude to the translator (apart from of course, the “Ha-ha Keats got his history wrong”). This resonated with the gratitude Indians feel towards the translators/interpreters of the ancient Indian epics. Throughout millennia, the only connection that nearly all Indians had with literature (when only a small percentage of the population could even read) was by listening to the Mahabharata and Ramayana stories which were originally written in Sanskrit which very few people understood. Thus the myriad Indian languages had their own poet translators/re-tellers to whom people where indebted. And they had to be poetic interpretations, otherwise how else would they have been orally transmitted. (There are moderns prose translations which I am sure are more accurate, but extremely dry). There is actually a beautiful Bengali sonnet of gratitude to the translator of the Mahabharata into Bengali which was undoubtedly inspired by Keats, and I shared the poet’s sentiments as that was the translation I grew up with, and still refer to today. I have Chapman’s Homer on my bookshelf as an homage to Keats but have read only bits of it, though I have read other translations of Iliad and Odyssey. Maybe now I shall dust it off…

[@DrOctaviaCox]

A beautiful comment. Chapman's Homer has some gorgeous images, but the iambic heptameter form (otherwise known as the "fourteener") does take some getting used to - it can feel rather languorous.

[@kellyoconnor5684]

Thank you so much for sharing your insights; as an English teacher, I am grateful for every new posting! I have a thought about the "men/Darién" rhyme: if you pronounce it as they do in Latin America (emphasis on the final syllable), it strengthens the final word. On another note, I had a fabulous Shakespeare teacher (Dr. Deborah Curren-Aquino) who illustrated the importance of the sound of names in Romeo and Juliet. For her, the exchange of Balboa for Cortez provided euphony; similarly; "Romeo" is all liquid vowels, while "Tybalt" is all short, harsh sounds. Thank you again!

[@DrOctaviaCox]

Do let me know what you think. I’d love to hear from you.

[@Tevildo]

Excellent analysis, as always. If I may ask one question - what is Chapman's translation of the "controversial" line? I'd be interested to know how it differs from Pope.

[@DrOctaviaCox]

Thank you Tevildo. Which line of Pope's exactly are you thinking of?

[@Tevildo]

@@DrOctaviaCox "When not a breath disturbs the deep Serene". I didn't know that both Keats and Wordsworth were deliberately referring to this line.

[@DrOctaviaCox]

Ah! yes. Chapman's version reads: "As when about the silver moon, when air is free from wind" (Iliad, end of book 8). I prefer Pope's rendering myself

[@Tevildo]

@@DrOctaviaCox Thanks! I have to agree with your assessment. The first thing that came to my (admittedly pre-prepared) mind was Wordsworth's notorious "I've measured it from side to side", but one line is not enough to judge an entire work.

[@HRJohn1944]

Loved this. Two small points: I was taught this sonnet by a wonderful English teacher, and she suggested that Keats knew very well that Balboa was the first European to see the Pacific (at least, from the Americas) but Balboa doesn't quite scan - Cortez, on the other hand, scans perfectly. Also, Andrew Motion discuassed this sonnet some time ago and made the point that Uranus had been discovered 35 years previously (by Herschel) - so, relatively recently - and that this explained the first two lines of the sextet.

[@paganpoetprophet6441]

I like your channel and readings of such important poetry , you in my mind are a gatekeeper , a guardian of these works , and a generous teacher ,for us who appreciate and like myself ,need explanation of the finer points , of each work , you make it acsessible for me the average Man . Your channel is an Oasis of beauty and the finer things in life , you read beautifully , an angelic voice in my opinion , to share your vast knowledge as well , To this I am fortunate to be the recipient .Thank you

[@DrOctaviaCox]

That's very kind of you to say.

[@Truemotivatorforsure]

Mam you are a brilliant professor ❤❤

[@missioncardiac7599]

On a lighter note I can’t resist a bit of Bertie Wooster and Jeeves - I hope you won’t mind: “Jeeves, who was the fellow who on looking at something felt like somebody looking at something? I learned the passage at school. But it has escaped me.” “I fancy the individual you have in mind, sir, is the poet Keats, who compared his emotions on first reading Chapman’s Homer to those of stout Cortez when with eagle eyes he stared at the Pacific.” And since you brought up Pope: “Feminine psychology is admittedly odd, sir. The poet Pope..." "Never mind about the poet Pope, Jeeves." "No, sir." "There are times when one wants to hear all about the poet Pope and times when one doesn't." "Very true, sir.”

[@DrOctaviaCox]

Ha! I bet Jeeves was just about to refer to Pope's _Epistle to a Lady_ (1743)...

[@sue9302]

Hi !! in terms of the theme of exploration within the poem, what other keats poem could i link it too ?

[@jmullen1584]

This was fabulous. I am new to studying poetry. I’m starting with Keats and your video was so informative. Thank you!

[@63Speed63]

Thank you so much for having this forum for us. My educational background is in science, and any piece of literature I have ever read has come of my own volition. You so often bridge gaps in my literary knowledge, and this video did that amazingly well. I've read Pope's Iliad and Odyssey (his books), the Faerie Queene, most of Shakespeare, and I've memorized all of Keats' Odes. I did not know of Keats' conflict with Pope and it somewhat disturbs me. I get it, but there's real sadness in knowing these two titans of poetry had to contend this way; though I don't know if Pope deigned to make a rebuttal. I'd expect something like this out of someone like Byron. But it's Keats, and that not only surprised me, it disappointed me.

[@DrOctaviaCox]

Pope died in the mid 18th century (in 1744), and so couldn't defend himself against Romanticism's attacks again him (post 1790s). I do sometimes wonder what he might have made of them!

[@DrOctaviaCox]

I think it's also interesting that Pope himself revered both Shakespeare and Spenser too.

[@DrOctaviaCox]

Keats could be quite combative with other poets when he wanted to be. When he began to fall out of love with Wordsworth, for instance, he coined the phrase "egotistical sublime" about him. He was also rather rude about Leigh Hunt. And Byron for that matter!

[@DrOctaviaCox]

And thank you John. I'm very happy to provide this forum. I hope people find it interesting and useful.

[@63Speed63]

Oops, and well, I just realized that Keats' criticism here was given 72 years AFTER Pope's death, which strikes me even more odd. But I get it in the sense that these romantic poets - feeling straight from the heart and imagination and all - apparently couldn't resist their passion, even though it was a lashing out at a dead man, only couched in sublime poetry. This rancor amongst some of the romantic poets (Byron versus Keats, for example) looks a lot like cattiness to me in hindsight.

[@robertgainer1395]

This is an excellent analysis. The contextual explanation of how the poem reflected the debate about Romanticist and Neo-classicist approaches to poetics was particularly helpful. One minor criticism, not about the analysis but about the production, is that the audio and the visual are not perfectly synchronised, which was a little distracting. But I enjoyed it a lot and I've hit 'subscribe'.

[@DrOctaviaCox]

Thank you, Robert. Welcome aboard! Octavia

[@DrOctaviaCox]

Does anyone who is more tech savvy than me know how I can help viewers synchronise the sound and visuals on the video? When I watch the video on my own computer everything is synced fine, so I'm not sure what the problem is or how to go about fixing it. Any advice would be gratefully appreciated!

[@Rwswal]

'w' is a vowel in Welsh. I think it's quasi-vowel in English. Similarly, 'y' is a vowel in Welsh Great video. What's astonishing is that Keats just churned it out loud and bold at the age of 20 - or was he 21? 🤔 Yet more astonishing is that he must have been shattered after being up all night binge-reading Chapman's Homer 😮

[@aizazkhan6358]

Very well explanation....

[@WStallard]

omg this is awesome

[@paganpoetprophet6441]

Is it possible to equate Pope's translation of Homer and his works ,and suspect changes or varied interpretations , Homer versus Pope as in comparison for argument sake , was the ancient Bible being translated to let's say the king James version , did or could Pope have deviated from the original text , to make it more palatable ,for his generation , his to be audience if you will , ? And if so has modern academia acknowledged , this to be fact ?

[@paganpoetprophet6441]

To follow up on my question on varied interpretations , imitation being the greatest form of flattery , a work that is constantly revisited by scholars and redefined ,does this add to the greatness of the originals work , ? I hope I make sense , and do you think different cultures interpretations can significantly change the originals' meaning ?

[@DrOctaviaCox]

Yes, Pope did absolutely make some deviations from the original text - he was converting it into poetry (rather than attempting a literal word-for-word translation). I would add that Chapman deviated too

[@DrOctaviaCox]

I think that if a text has been consistently fascinating to many, many people, over many generations, and in many cultures, then it does suggest that the text has something great about it. Of course, that's not to say that there aren't also undiscovered great texts too.

[@DrOctaviaCox]

And yes, I definitely think different cultural interpretations can find new and varied meanings in texts.

[@kirbycairo]

Poor John Hamilton Reynolds always gets forgotten as the third "new poet" mentioned by Hunt.

[@Robert_St-Preux]

Someday someone might come along and treat Keats the way Keats and his contemporaries served up Pope. They may accuse these Anglo-Saxons of a sort of Hispanic or Latin _sameism_ , as though one Spaniard may as well be another. And his _choice_ of conquistador is likely to invite reproach, as Pope merely made his living from another civilisation, whereas Cortez actually _destroyed_ one for his own profits, the effects of which linger on even today. One may go so far as to claim that all the pretense to _nature_ and _feeling_ or _sensitivity_ may actually be undermined here.

[@accenttunebyellie]

Is it just me or is this video slowed down by 0.25?