John Polkinghorne - How Could God Know the Future?

[@Jalcolm1]

I feel very humble to admit that only I know the truth about these matters. It has been revealed to me, but it was requested that I keep it to myself for now. Of course, in the fullness of time… or should I say the “foolness of time” … this constraint will be lifted and the truth will be revealed, through me. And only me. And possibly some others.

[@TrejoDuneSea]

Good one.

[@indigatorveritatis219]

🙄

[@alexgonzo5508]

Why only you?

[@Jalcolm1]

@@alexgonzo5508 humility prevents me explaining why I am chosen. But reality is a map, and I am standing in the right place. ‘Nuff said. This is just between us.

[@alexgonzo5508]

@@Jalcolm1 It just doesn't sound like humility. Just saying.

[@CarlosElio82]

Immensely beautiful! 0:42 "There is a ground of ultimate value so our experience of beauty and of truth are glimpses of an eternal reality." All physical matter that makes us today has existed since the beginning. It is necessarily so by the equivalence of matter and energy and the law of conservation of energy. We come from the totality, acquire individuality for a short period of time during which we catch glimpses of reality, and then go back to totality. Something like the rain. Water exists in large bodies, evaporates, gathers as individual drops by physical laws of surface tension, it has a brief life as an individual drop, then it falls, back to the body of water, with no individuality. While in the rain the drops seem completely independent of one another, although opportunities for entanglement among its particles was certainly possible before they condensed into drops. I have no basis to suggest that the drops communicate with one another, but I find it thought provoking to discuss the implications of consciousness in the rain, a rain with sentient drops.

[@papichico2828]

That’s an awesome analogy. i totally agree and find this fascinating. Keep telling people the good news ❤

[@WangErMao]

6:40 if God can only do good things, that would mean it does not have free will. However what Polkinghorne fails to recognise is that when he speaks about God doing things and making choices, God is implied to be exercising free will. Both can't be true at the same time.

[@20july1944]

God has free will, as do we.

[@ManiBalajiC]

@@20july1944 we don't, our brain decides far before the proper consciousness kicks in.

[@20july1944]

@@ManiBalajiC You don't have free will?

[@FairnessIsTheAnswer]

The nervous system and the brain stem unconsciously control our breathing. But we can ALSO consciously decide to take a deeper breath or to breathe faster or slower. The automatic breathing implies that freewill is not being exercised most of the time. The intentional deep breathing implies freewill can be engaged at any time. We can do both. The part of the brain that automatically monitors and influences breathing doesn't stop working when we decide to consciously control breathing. One or the other can take priority, but capability isn't lost if one is dominant. If your computer has a processor with multiple cores, then multiple different processes can be running simultaneously. If computers can do multiple things at the same time, and our brains can do multiple things at the same time, then God certainly can as well. Not everything is "either/or," "black or white." No "law of freewill" has been proven that states that God can either have freewill or no freewill, but can't have both.

[@LogicStandsBeforeGod]

John Polkinghorne at 6:40 "the good God I believe cannot do evil deeds. " John you are correct, which means killing Jesus(pbuh) could not be the will of God and/or plan of God. Therefore there is no salvation waiting for you by killing Jesus(pbuh) a blameless prophet of God. If God did not plan the killing Jesus(pbuh) and you Christians believe that God planned and executed the killing Jesus for Christian's mercy and salvation, it makes Christian's core creed is an insult to majestic nature of God.

[@markfischer3626]

On the dubious assumption of free will then god can't know what decisions a human being will make or what the consequences will be. Therefore god cannot know the future. But if god is all knowing then he must know the future which means he can't judge people because they have no free will but must act according to his laws. The self contradiction is obvious. How do theologians reconcile the contradiction? They say god works in mysterious ways we can't understand which is an admission of "I don't know but it just is?" How do you know he knows? Because he told me. It's in his book. Which book? HIS book. It's the one I tell you to follow. What do you mean god can't do anything? If he can't he isn't an all knowing all powerful god. BTW what was god doing before he created the universe? Twiddling his infinite number of thumbs? How many universes does god have to deal with. Are they one at a time or all at the same time? These theologians really do dance around issues they can't deal with. Personally I give them no money, none of my time or energy, and I certainly wouldn't go to war crusading for them. I like the way Americans change religions about as often as they change shoes. If one doesn't fit, try another one. Who is a heretic unbeliever in the true god and is a servant of satan? Anyone who doesn't believe in MY god. So you're all going to hell because my god is ME.

[@20july1944]

That's incoherent: you can say God can't know the future but nothing prevents Him from justly judging people who have free will (as we do, and He quite possibly will). Are you an atheist? I consider God's existence a question of science best approached through cosmology/astrophysics. Do you know that lane of the road?

[@markfischer3626]

@20july1944 Of course I'm an atheist. Always have been, always will be. Do you think if there was such a thing as God his messenger would be a man wearing a dress, a funny hat, and carrying a book written sometime between the discovery of fire and the invention of the wheel to convince me? If god existed as many people believe he/she/it would know what it would take to convince me. So far nada, negatory, nicht, nein, nyet, zilch. He's had 74 years. If he hasn't come by now he isn't coming.

[@20july1944]

@@markfischer3626 Do you know basic astrophysics? That's where the quickest route to evidence for God exists.

[@markfischer3626]

@20july1944 Funny, in all the courses I've taken on the subject, all the lectures, presentations, books by respected astrophysicists I never heard God mentioned even once. I see no evidence for it. Belief in it therefore strikes me as antiscience.

[@20july1944]

@@markfischer3626 Has something always existed? That would obviously be the first thing to exist. If so, what was it? Did some first thing arise from nothing? That would be the first event. If so, what was it?

[@Joey-JoJo-Jr.64]

“God can not do evil deeds”? How dare this simple man declare what God can and can not do.

[@mrsnoo86]

hmm which g0d they are talking about? Zeus? Amaterasu? Ra? Mireuk? Batara Guru?

[@kallianpublico7517]

What would talking be without the future. It's always surprising to see people compose and speak their thoughts in a conversation as if they're not reacting. Reacting in a way that also unfolds. To ask a simple question: is answering a question an act of the present, the past, or the future? If you ask me a question and I answer it does that involve time ⏲️ or something else? Is language a shadow of time or a flashlight on time? How are language and epistemology related to time? On the other hand, if we're just making small talk is the future involved less than the present? What about if we're reminiscing? Do we control time by our tense? What about our tone, is our tone another aspect of time?

[@user-ij6vg8xq2r]

Time is the instantaneous moment of thought - from question to understanding - in which we live. We answer the question.

[@cvdb2471]

God can be anything that you wish to imagine, as proven in this video. It has nothing to do with objective truth, though.

[@extavwudda]

If you'd one day be so blessed, you'd find that there is no such thing as objective truth, as all of existence is the product of mind.

[@alittax]

@@extavwudda "there is no such thing as objective truth" But isn't this also an objective truth?

[@alittax]

@@extavwudda You're claiming that there are no objective truths, yet your claim is an attempt at uttering one, making it contradictory.

[@alittax]

@@extavwudda You said that there are no objective truths, everything is subjective, but your claim can only be true if it's objectively so, making it contradictory.

[@alittax]

@@extavwudda If you still don't understand my point: you say that every single piece of information is subjective, but this claim is also a piece of information, and if it were true, it would be objective, contradicting itself.

[@Sauromannen]

How nice it would be to just want something to be in a certain way, despite all evidence it contradicts, and live by it. It is amazing that there are grown ups that are still in this fairytale existence.

[@20july1944]

Do you know any science, or are you just an ignoramus I can ignore?

[@Sauromannen]

@20july1944 I defended my PhD thesis in Applied Physics in 1996 and have worked in several high tech companies since then. Right now I work with L3 level autonomous driving (vision systems). I guess I can state that I am quite fluent in the scientific method. How about you?

[@20july1944]

@@Sauromannen Great, you're a real expert. What cosmogony do you favor?

[@Sauromannen]

@20july1944 I think the ideas explained by Max Tegmark is interesting. An extended version of the continuous inflation model. Quite amazing ideas.

[@20july1944]

@@Sauromannen What are the initial conditions of that model?

[@Shinnja]

Determinism is the only way that God could know the future perfectly, because if something truly* random happened then God couldn't have known it (True randomness doesn't appear to exist anyway). You can say that just because you know the future doesn't mean that you set all of the dominoes in motion. As the analogy goes, just because you watcha movie and know what will happen doesn't mean you determined it to be that way. However, God not only knows what will happen but set up the initial conditions that would lead to future events, which would indeed make him the director that determined how things played out. (This assumes he is omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, and exists in the first place - all of which thankfully John in this video seems to these assumptions being wrong)

[@Mixamaka]

I see God as a librarian and historian who observes us and writes books about our lives. Everyone is a book in his library. Some are 2 pages long, others are the size of the Bible. At the end of our life he closes the book and places it in the category and genre defined by the way we live. The paradise is the name of his library. When we don't deserve to be in it, he throws our book in a basket and sends it downstair in the basement where his son(Not this one... You know, the fallen one) enjoy reading books about monsters. We can either rest in peace in God's library for eternity or be a piece of entertainment for his evil son... for eternity.

[@waldwassermann]

The past, present and future are all GOD.

[@shaccooper]

He’s describing a different God than the one in the Bible: Isaiah 46:10 Only I can tell you the future before it even happens. Everything I plan will come to pass, for I do whatever I wish. That is, He says in the Christian and Jewish Bible that He knows the end from the beginning.

[@waldwassermann]

That's because not only time is relative; god is relative... genesis 2:18.

[@troyboldon1]

Idiots. I will say the God I worship made everything seen and unseen. Perfect and all powerful. Huge huge Big God. Not a small gif line you agnostics describe.

[@jeffgill3048]

KZbin comment theology is really well thought out. 🙄

[@jamesruscheinski8602]

could time come out of eternity (infinitesimal?) prior to universe?

[@jimmock1155]

10 Then the disciples came and said to him, “Why do you speak to them in parables?” 11 And he answered them, x“To you it has been given to know ythe secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. 12 zFor to the one who has, more will be given, and he will have an abundance, but from the one who has not, aeven what he has will be taken away. 13 This is why I speak to them in parables, because bseeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, cnor do they understand. 14 Indeed, in their case the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled that says: d“ ‘ “You will indeed hear but never understand, and you will indeed see but never perceive.” 15 For this people’s heart has grown dull, and with their ears ethey can barely hear, and ftheir eyes they have closed, lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears and gunderstand with their heart and hturn, and I would heal them.

[@jamesruscheinski8602]

if physical nature has free will, and also physical nature has equations / laws that describe it; how might free will relate to equations / laws of physical nature?

[@patientson]

Good patient and kind being of equal contract.

[@junevandermark952]

There are over 8 billion humans now living on earth. Do you believe that a god keeps manufacturing souls to put in each of these new-born babies ... so that the god can later judge which souls "he" will allow in heaven with him, compared to how many souls he plans to reject? If you ask pertinent questions of what you were taught ... you will spot the lies that now blind-sight you. Been there ... did that.

[@charlesdarwin4351]

Is omniscient god omnipotent enough to change the things he/she/it already know will happen?

[@20july1944]

Obviously, if He exists and is omnipotent UNLESS He doesn't know the future after all (maybe only what He will do.)

[@EarnestBunbury]

If an allknowing, eternal entity would create an imperfect world as ours, wouldn’t this being be very cruel or indifferent? I think it’s illogical and a fallacy to say that such a being has created everything

[@joshuawaddell6640]

That's because you don't know the God of the Bible, or what His word says. I say that simply based off of your statement that God must be cruel to create a world that contains cruelty. No offense intended.

[@thepeadair]

This world is imperfect because we have free will. It is a school and a proving ground. How we conduct ourselves when faced with difficulties and the choice between right and wrong is the test. Sadly. we all fail to varying degrees and the consequences of those failures is manifested in the mess we find ourselves in.

[@ManiBalajiC]

@@joshuawaddell6640 creates a world which has Properties of cruelty and turns cruel so he can punish it, no logic.....

[@ManiBalajiC]

@@thepeadair your god is no where kind, you should be too blind and throw away your Kindness to accept how the world is when it could have been created better.

[@20july1944]

@@ManiBalajiC We have freewill and God wants actual, voluntary obedience and cooperation. If you have children, you want voluntary obedience rather than constant compulsion.

[@mikeharland3358]

As god does not exist. The question is meaningless.

[@jackpullen3820]

Anyone who has read the Bible can see plainly that God's claim to know future events is evident in chronological order throughout scripture. Whether or not you believe Scripture is up to the individual. To answer the question how can God know the future is simple it is because he's outside of time, time holds no constraints on God

[@ericjohnson6665]

There's a divine revelation that goes into great detail on this subject, and the reasons for God knowing the future are complex. The implication is that God knows our future, which is only partially correct. Our Divine Father-friend (ODFF) knows what he wants our future to be, but it's up to us to accept or reject it. Then again, "the future" could be just a reference to the whole of creation, without necessarily including all the specifics that either contributed to it or delayed it. That revelation is called The Urantia Book.

[@laniechrisgardnerasl8639]

I believe that "God" is a pure energy/rhythm/pulse that is WITHIN EVERYTHING. We are all connected, "time" is happening all at once, past, present and future. Our souls are reincarnated for many lifetimes. When we die WE judge our lives, maybe with a soul group, to see whether we need to come into another life. I feel like this guy still believes that "God" is a white man sitting in the clouds.

[@LogicStandsBeforeGod]

John Polkinghorne at 6:40 "the good God I believe cannot do evil deeds. " John you are correct, which means killing Jesus(pbuh) could not be the will of God and/or plan of God. Therefore there is no salvation waiting for you by killing Jesus(pbuh) a blameless prophet of God. If God did not plan the killing Jesus(pbuh) and you Christians believe that God planned and executed the killing Jesus for Christian's mercy and salvation, it makes Christian's core creed is an insult to majestic nature of God.

[@lordemed1]

How coud God NOT know the future?

[@jamesruscheinski8602]

the free will God gives to physical nature also allows God to act outside himself in nature? free will for physical nature and free will for God in nature?

[@bike4aday]

The future is a thought that is happening now.

[@bradmodd7856]

if it is happening now, isn't that now?

[@mark.J6708]

What if the Eternal does not know the future for our world, however one chooses to define our world, because of the literal reality of "free-will". As a human species, we cannot evolve and become "more than" unless free will exists. We are of the animal kingdom, but we are also more than. It is up to us, as a human species, to Shephard ourselves into more than. I wonder if this is why interdiction or direct involvement of things "more than" is very, very delicate because "knowing" without faith and becoming more than through individual and collective choices becomes mute. Our very natures... curiosity, compassion, lack of compassion, acts and decisions to govern ourselves and protect both our world and ourselves (actually do it, not just run propaganda campaigns) is what makes us different and what keeps us in circles or cycles... maybe across the universe there are multitudes of sentient beings all facing the same, repeated, up or down scenarios... "Rome is Burning" and using grain as a weapon is far older than Rome. There is individual effort which may have its own ends and then there is collective effort which may have entirely different ends. If one thinks in the most simple terms and studies history, philosophy, and human nature all of this becomes obvious. How do we use things, collectively, as we develop into tomorrow? No not talking the totalitarian "..isms" that enslave millions and have killed untold millions in the last century, but what do democracies and Republics and the citizens within them do, to curb the nefarious and greedy and immoral to keep the public wealth moving forward and growing? To Shephard, for real, the safekeeping of the world we are responsible for? Do we need plastic? How much, is there a renewable replacement for plastic everything? And what should we, as a people do if our governments and corporations prefer the pollution? Such questions are as relevant as "does God exist", what is the nature of the universe, what is quantum mechanics really... all such luxurious thoughts mean nothing in a world where Rome is burning AGAIN.

[@allauddin732]

Learn to love blindly God is not a thing that your mind can take or grasp.

[@innerpeaceandselflove]

Right,I think that God is like how we are playing a video game,say Super Mario Bros,Mario thinks that he is doing the whole game by himself,he could never fathom that someone in another dimension,that he cant see or hear, has created him and the whole game system!

[@dougsmith6793]

If God knows the future, he cannot change it without contradicting his own prediction. That is, God says, "This is what will happen!", and it MUST happen, or God will have made himself wrong. If God knows the future, then God is in a prison from which there is no escape, because the future MUST unfold EXACTLY as he knows it will, or he didn't really know it to begin with.

[@KalCraig]

There could be infinite alternate realities so that no person is stuck to solely one option. God would just be aware of all those possible realities.

[@dougsmith6793]

@@KalCraig It's true that God can be anything that our imagination can come up with.

[@HeavenlyWarrior]

Not just God, we can too, although the future is just a probability, it can change depending on the variables (we are the variables). God can know all possible futures but only 1 will happen.

[@shaccooper]

As you are familiar with science, able to counterbalance the conversation, the same should be with speaking with theologians. That way you can clarify if what they are saying is based upon their own assumptions or what is outlined by the God in the Bible. Much of what he is saying is considered heretical

[@fess749]

As Sean Carroll would say ‘ God is very poorly defined ‘. You constantly see theologians bending over backwards to try and make sense of their beliefs. Even the basic religious concepts of omnipotence and omniscience are hard to make sense of. Omniscience and omnipotence would seem mutually exclusive. You can’t know the future and still be able to change it at will. And the concept of the Trinity is really bizarre. Theologians need to stick to their old tried and true formula where you just take it all on faith and don’t ask any questions

[@jamesruscheinski8602]

eternity has timeless existence?

[@noudialp]

Future is as predetermined as the past and we just follow a path while enjoying the illusion of free will.

[@mathscience757]

The deterministic, which you consider valid, has been rejected for about 100 years. The principle of uncertainty is now a demonstrated and indisputable fact, however there will always be people who do not have the intellectual capacity to understand!!!

[@noudialp]

@@mathscience757 Hey pal, there are some people who can foresee or see in dreams the future with very specific details such as numbers. And I am one of them. So speaking from experience there is more to the story. I really started to think that I sometimes remember the future. I even won the superloto and it was no coincidence.

[@ashoknayak1460]

God is Superconscious who has Ultimate Control in Action & Reaction of matter & beings ( Which is governed by laws & Time )

[@genius1198]

They all hit the wall

[@Jack-hu2do]

I watch Closer to Truth fairly often, and I enjoy hearing the various interactions--including this one. I also appreciate the host's desire to explore whether God exists, and what kind of God he might be. But there have been so many of these conversations, and yet he doesn't give any hint of moving toward or away from belief in God. (I may be mistaken, and I certainly don't know his heart or mind.) But there is a saying in the Bible that describes those who are "always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth." I remember an excellent statement in A Severe Mercy--a book that grew out of the author's correspondence with C. S. Lewis--that expresses the author's surprising realization: "In my old easy-going theism, I had regarded Christianity as a sort of fairy tale; and I had neither accepted nor rejected Jesus, since I had never, in fact, encountered him. Now I had. The position was not, as I had been comfortably thinking all these months, merely a question of whether I was to accept the Messiah or not. It was a question of whether I was to accept Him--or reject. My God! There was a gap behind me too. Perhaps the leap to acceptance was a horrifying gamble-but what of the leap to rejection? There might be no certainty that Christ was God-but, by God, there was no certainty that He was not."

[@b.g.5869]

Kuhn is an atheist, although a reluctant one; he's said that many times. These videos are not new btw. Based on Robert and Polkinghorne's physical appearance here, this particular clip is probably from the early 2000s (Polkinghorne died at age 90 almost 2 years ago).

[@20july1944]

I think he's trying to play it down the middle, to draw people out.

[@BlindTom61]

Lightweight question...

[@captainandthelady]

Lightweight answers...

[@Tom_Quixote]

Asking how God could see the future is like asking how Santa Claus could possibly visit all those homes in just one night.

[@lrvogt1257]

An omnipotent, omniscient god negates the possibility of free will but the absence of free will suggests nothing about the possibility of a god.

[@lykojello7733]

God knows the Future but not everything. Like humans, we know the future if it is according to our plan, but the future can be different if our plan is not followed. Just like if you go to church on Sunday, you know that you will go to church during the week, you know the future, but the future can be different, your plan can be changed, which will change the future you know It's the same with God, he knows the future but it can be different and his plan can't be followed because humans and angels have free will. This is the reason why God regretted. because all god knows about the future are the things that are in line with his plan. 

[@SiriusSRX]

Because the past, present and future are relative. They are simply real, but we can't move between them.

[@owlpoodle355]

God also has to contend and fight his eternal foe, Satin.

[@pesilaratnayake162]

I found the train of thought hard to follow. Obviously hard to lay out an entire, complex perspective in a 10 minute interview, but it felt like he was taking a few basic ideas and supposing ideas X, Y and Z for some unclear reasons. Vulnerability was strange. Are they talking about being open to disappointment? Like if you run a simulation hoping for an outcome but not knowing if it will happen? Kind of thought more science would be included in the discussion, but it seemed to be largely based on intuition and preference from what I gathered.

[@mikesmith-cp5qs]

God does know the future, however as scripture states he does not choose to exercise his power in that area for every event, 'he chooses not to'.

[@Shane7492]

It seems like John needs to rethink his conception of God. He talks as if we are separate from God, which would place a limitation on God. However, for God to be infinite, it must be all that exists in its entirety. I don't understand how believers continue to fail to understand the nature of infinite being.

[@tedgrant2]

God knows the future because he is timeless. For God, tomorrow is just as familiar as today. Although he takes no thought for the morrow (Matthew 6:34)

[@bobmusil1458]

If God knows the future, why did he say after the creation “everything is good”. And then he killed all human beings (except Noah and family) and all land animals (but not the sea animals) because they were not good.

[@tedgrant2]

@@bobmusil1458 Ah, you got me. Well maybe God has a poor short-term memory. He needed the Rainbow to remind himself to close the windows in Heaven (Genesis 9:16)

[@tedgrant2]

@@bobmusil1458 Anyway, as we all know, no matter what the problem, theologians can always find a way around it. That's their job. And if they ever fail, we would all stay in bed on Sunday morning.

[@tedgrant2]

@@bobmusil1458 One suggestion is that although God knows the future, he pretends not to know for our benefit. If he didn't, it would be impossible to defend the Free Will doctrine that somebody made up.

[@EarnestBunbury]

Furthermore, why should the universe and our existence require a creator, but not the creator itself?

[@ayhamkr6779]

Because if he needs a creator, then his creator needs a creator , and so on. So there must be an entity that does not need anything except for itself, which it is the God. There are two possibilities for the existing of universe. First one, the universe created itself, this requires the existence of the universe to create itself which is impossible. The second is that the universe was created by something else that existed before it and that need not to be created, which is the Only possibility.

[@ayhamkr6779]

Sound complicated ?. Think about it.

[@EarnestBunbury]

But why is a creator necessary? Why should people not accept that the universe came into existence out of nothing? Wouldn’t that be an equivalent to a Devine creator?

[@ayhamkr6779]

@@EarnestBunbury Really ? do you believe that something can come from nothing ? Look around you. Can you accept that anything just appeared instantly from nothing ? whatever it is trivial or negligible. Atheist cosmologists always talk for hours about how much the universe is magnificent and works according to very precise laws, and extremely organized, but when asked how this started, they somehow manage to say it started by CHANCE. Just to deny the existence of the creator.

[@EarnestBunbury]

exactly. To me its implausible to argue, that the universe and we require a creator, but not the creator itself. A the motionless first mover is as insufficient and unfulfilling, as saying, that we will never find an answer to that question. I don't want to insult believers, but I think, that their "answers" are insufficient and never thought to the end. If an entity is omnipotent, then it could create something, that is so heavy, that no-one could lift it, not even itself. But that would make god not omnipotent. The thought experiment above demonstrates, that the Devine concept of almightyness is illogical. Thus, we should accept, that religious texts can't tell the full truth and, therefor, should be taken with a pinch of salt. To conclude, if you start asking questions about the religious texts and see that cultures from all over the world follow very different religious traditions, you conclude that god and religion may follow the human need to find answers/give an explanation to the open questions and the gods change from an indipendendent variable to a dependendent variable. Of course, such a realization does not give you any help or peace, in itself. But you can use it to grow and become a "Übermensch" (the philosophical concept of human, that are free of coercion and constraint. This term was used first by Ancient Greek philosophers, prior Sokrates, and got most famously reused by Nietzsche and perverted by the Nazis. Therefor I prefer the similar term "ideal human")

[@MrSanford65]

For the future or the past to exist it would require a continuous changing of the fundamental laws of nature. If everything is staying the same then time isn’t changing anything. So whatever remains the same through all the appearances of change is God

[@erikhviid3189]

What ?

[@MrSanford65]

@@erikhviid3189 In other words there’s a substrata in reality that does not change therefore must be immune to time. If time means change in the universe then that would be the change of everything completely. Something has to be fixed in this universe, and that would be at least part of the character of God

[@erikhviid3189]

@@MrSanford65 Do you sniff glue ?

[@S3RAVA3LM]

For what it's worth, I'd agree and all the wise men arise in the same understanding, from the books that I study. What has a beginning in time, has an end in time, and God is most certainly beyond time, for God couldn't have come in to time -- that would denote an end to God, thus time be greater than God, tho time is not something of iself as time has no attributes.. There likely is no future or past in God, and time being in God in a relative since would be the presence, and this presence is only and ever the 'now', and that now is God. It's too incredible to even think about.

[@erikhviid3189]

@@S3RAVA3LM Or maybe “Gods” are just an imaginary skydaddy ? At least there are no (NO) evidence of any god.

[@deepaktripathi4417]

I'd love to believe in a God who's all mighty and who can do ANYTHING otherwise I don't need God.

[@kalewintermute28]

So muddled. He says God isn't dependent on anything, Time included, which God bought into existence presumably, along with everything else in creation. Therefore God exists outside of Time by necessity. With that as a basis, saying God doesn't know the future is kinda absurd.

[@kricketflyd111]

Assuming God is connected to creation then wouldn't he sense the expansion as well as know the past?

[@glassjester]

God transcends time and space. Of *course* He knows what we call "the future."

[@waldwassermann]

Time is relative... hence how God not only knows the future, but past, present and future are God.

[@biknjak]

If time is linear, then I don't think you can travel in time, as the future hasn't happened yet. If the future has already happened, then it is "set in stone" and unchangeable. Why then, would God plead for all to repent, for example, if it is already pre determined who makes it to Heaven and who doesn't? What would be the point in us "trying to make it to Heaven" if it has already been decided? We were given "free agency", I believe, which means we can change our behavior for good or bad, right up to the end. If we haven't finished our lives yet, then how can anyone know the final outcome? I think that just like good parents can accurately predict the behavior of their child in a given situation, our Father, God, knows us even better, and probably is very accurate in predicting our outcomes even though they haven't fully played out yet. I'm not being sacrilegious; I love and believe in God, but this is how I understand (with my limited mortal knowledge).

[@lrvogt1257]

This all sounds like a wish list of properties required to reach a result rather than a description of any actual phenomena.

[@junevandermark952]

The story that a god exists that gave human souls free will, is at total odds with the story that a god knows the future concerning the god's judgment of human souls. If our wills were free of judgement from the god, the god couldn't possibly know what our choices were going to be. “We are all hallucinating all the time, including right now. It’s just that when we agree about our hallucinations, we call that reality.” Anil Seth … neuroscientist.

[@L0ST-ALIEN]

I dont need a god who doesnt know the future .

[@porroapp]

The truth is, if god existed, and god knows the future outcomes of everything, god would be pretty bored with everything that happens. What is the point in knowing everything if there is no mystery or fun in trying to figure things out? All of us are physical manifestations of the universe after 13 billion years. We are a reality the universe created, so when we create new realities with our thoughts and actions, we are in fact the universe/god we theorise in action.

[@udaykumar-lv4xo]

When humans are capable of knowing the future, you doubt God, the observer, who observes everything in himself.

[@bestmindcoolingrelaxationm1084]

Which human knows the future?

[@udaykumar-lv4xo]

@@bestmindcoolingrelaxationm1084 you......just turn your mind focusing on your pineal gland..the past,present future will be revealed to you..

[@Alan-shore-]

That's one of the dumbest things I've ever read...

[@Ncinsured]

He is stating what he believes and feels NOT WHAT HE KNOWS. Big difference. You can’t argue belief

[@AfsanaAmerica]

I think God does know the future and prevents horrible disasters or else it's like having powers for no reason.

[@sumitrampal188]

Why didn’t he prevent COVID then? Or may be COVID was more powerful than him/her 😂

[@AfsanaAmerica]

@@sumitrampal188 I don't know

[@sumitrampal188]

@@AfsanaAmerica that’s an acceptable answer which unfortunately most religious believers don’t accept.

[@AfsanaAmerica]

@@sumitrampal188 maybe I just don't want to answer your question.

[@AfsanaAmerica]

@@sumitrampal188 I'm jk

[@dominicvijayanand1971]

sir ,you being a man of science and are in search of God with everthing you are and everything you got, makes you very especial, even to God who is also serching for people who are searching for him in pure sense of a child wanting to know and explore everything in him and around him. i praise God for a being like you. you facinate me.🛐

[@rahinc]

What trash.

[@bobmusil1458]

How come you know what God does or wants?

[@Alan-shore-]

Another stupid person.

[@Joey-JoJo-Jr.64]

He said “if God is God”. This indicates that his faith has failed him.

[@MagnumInnominandum]

The same way Yog Sothoth knows all past, present and future, is the gate and the key to the gate. Just like that.

[@janerkenbrack3373]

I find it interesting that this gentleman is exactly like everyone else in that he has created a god exactly how he want it to be. I almost believe this entire god he's created is to replace the love he didn't get form his parents.

[@LogicStandsBeforeGod]

@Jan Erkenbrack If you are looking for the Creator of the universe, then you look no further and you read the Quran, it is literal spoken words of the Creator of the universe.

[@janerkenbrack3373]

@@LogicStandsBeforeGod Well, I am not looking for a creator of the universe. But if I was, why would the Quran be of use to me? Why do you think that is a path to truth?

[@LogicStandsBeforeGod]

@@janerkenbrack3373 Thanks for your questions Jan, I will try to answer your question by posting them, so that you would know which of my answer is addressed to your question. _"But if I was, why would the Quran be of use to me? "_ When you are reading the Quran even in English translation, your mind and heart will start to feel the words of God, literally. I am not making it up. Remember the Creator of the universe is not a man or woman but HE is a being beyond our imagination. _"Why do you think that is a path to truth? "_ Quran is from God and criterions will be accepted by God, that which God Himself has ordained for mankind are in the Quran. Our own made up criterions will not be accepted by God. Former anti-Islam European politician Joram Van Klaveren was asked this question, as you know he quit politics and converted to Islam. The question was: "How can we be sure, few years from now, you would not convert to Hinduism, when he converted to Islam from Christianity. " His reply was to the question, that "I was born into Christianity I did not choose Christianity, it is first time in my life I have chosen a religion i.e. Islam." These namely former European politicians quit their 6 figures $ salary parliament ministerial position for Islam. Daniel Streich Joram Van Klaveren Arnoud Van Doorn Arthur Wagner These men below, held high position and they are medical doctors born in Christians household but when truth came to them, they accepted it. U.S ambassador Sudan Dr. Joseph D Stafford and his wife who is medical doctor as well have converted to Islam. German ambassador Dr Murad Wilfried Hofmann to Turkey converted to Islam. Sweden ambassador Dr. Knut Johan Richard Bernström to Morocco converted to Islam. British ambassador Simon Collis to Saudia Arabia converted to Islam.

[@janerkenbrack3373]

@@LogicStandsBeforeGod Thank you, but I did not find your reply compelling. It begins with a unfalsifiable assertion of literal communication from God. I can't take such assertions seriously, as they have no foundation in reality, and can't be demonstrated except through personal credulity. You also assert without evidence that the Quran is from God. There is no evidence that any gods exist, and only the assertion of believers that the Quran is his word. There are countless writings deistic authorship or inspiration. These writings differ wildly from one another, and none of them have any basis for belief than the faith of believers. Then you list a bunch of anecdotes about people who became believers. This is intellectually silly, as anyone could provide countless anecdotes about people becoming believers in any of the thousands of gods, religions, and even supernatural entities like ghosts, forest fairies, and lizard people. That someone abandoned reason and accepted the claims of religion has no bearing at all on if it is true. Your reasons for believing this book is a path to truth seem to be built upon personal credulity. Imagine for a moment that someone wanted you to believe in Zeus as chief God, and offered only books about Zeus and claims about other people who believed in him? I can't imagine this would be convincing. I would also ask that you think about accepting any other extraordinary claim were it not religious. For example, is the world controlled by shape-shifting reptilian overlords, who have taken over the bodies of world leaders? How about claims that aliens are mutilating cattle and abducting people? Like the Quran, these claims all lack tangible and credible evidence. They all rely on you accepting the claim as true first. Thanks for your response, but it does not move me at all, as I hold that our beliefs should be justified by testable evidence.

[@LogicStandsBeforeGod]

@@janerkenbrack3373 Testable evidence is Quran is protected from human corruption by the means of checksum. You google what checksum in the Quran. Quran is finest literature in the Arabic language which came through Mohammed(pbuh) who was an illiterate man. You put aside God, afterlife, theology, salvation to a corner and just look at the Quran itself. The Quran itself is mathematical masterpiece which came through a man who could not read or write. Without a computer no human on Earth can create book with checksum built-in in the book, there is no book on Earth mathematically quantified, let alone a holy book found in 1500 years ago. The pages of Quran were scattered in the community for the course of 23 years, pieces of 114 chapters were revealed piece by pieces and few verses at a time based on the event and conditions were on the ground over the course of 23 years. After Mohammed(pbuh) death two years later the Quran's pages were collected and compiled into a book. In the process of compiling the Quran into a book, if one were to add or remove a word in the Quran, the Quran's checksum would collapse and if one were to misplace a chapter in a different order then Quran's checksum would collapse. One would need a computer to put the quran in the order it has, and it is only with a computer it was discovered. Before the personal computers nobody knew that Quran has got built-in checksum on it. Apart from built-in checksum in the Quran, the entire Quran is multiplication of 19 and one were to remove just one word out of the Quran, that multiplication of 19 equilibrium would collapses. People can lie about the Quran, but numbers do not lie. Thirdly Quran has another feature, number of repeated words has profound meanings behind them. 1) Chapter #57 Iron is in the middle of Quran, just as Iron core in the middle of the Earth. Word iron in the Arabic language has got numeric value of 26 same as atomic number for Iron in Periodic table and a phrase "The Iron" numeric value of 57 same as chapter number in the Quran. Iron itself is an element came from out of space according to research, just as the Quran tells the Iron was sent down to Earth. 2) Number of times man and woman mentioned in the Quran 23 times, that aligns with number of chromosomes comes from Mother and Father as fetus developed from. 3) Number of times land mentioned is 13 times and sea mentioned 32 times, sum up to 45, now divide 13 by 45 equal to 28.888%, likewise divide 32 by 45 equals to 71.111% and it is percentage of land and see on the globe. These three are just the tip of the iceberg just has been discovered and they are many more are found. You know Quran says, space and matter were as one unit of creation and they were split with thunder, likewise the Quran tells God will close the space on itself like a BigCrunch and its promise binding on God Himself, thirdly Quran tells God created things in pairs example matter and anti-matter and they are many more like this found in the Quran. If you choose to deny God and the Quran, it is you free will.

[@HWJJSCHUMACHER]

"ULTIMATE CONSCIOUS UNIT OF THE 6th DIMENSION" ::: IS A BETTER WORD FOT "GOD" ::

[@chrisconklin2981]

Your discussions would be a lot shorter if you started with the premise that God(s) do not exist. As our universe is expanding, this means that time exists. The real problem is: Into what is the universe expanding into?

[@nothing_no_one88]

creases are given the gift of freedom

[@FadelYacoub]

According to his view; God is subject to Time. God is not subject to time nor Place.

[@stephenzhao5809]

Thanks be to LORD God who is faithful. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. (Rom 9. KJV) 2:10

[@ZephaniahL]

The concept of time is inherent in Him, so he has no need to ‘predict’ it - he IS the future.

[@edwardprokopchuk3264]

Phsycology damn near knows the acts and behaviors of humans… How is it that a god that created the universe and causes all things to exist and happen not know the future? This idea of “free will” just dumbs people down to the most irrational levels 🤦‍♂️

[@thepeadair]

You obviously don't understand the purpose, and necessity of free will.

[@edwardprokopchuk3264]

@@thepeadair maybe I would if such a thing would exist 😁

[@20july1944]

@@edwardprokopchuk3264 Do you NOT have free will? Let's discuss that if you think you don't.

[@edwardprokopchuk3264]

@@20july1944 it’s not just me, no one has free will. Let’s start with a precise definition of “free will” and see where this goes.

[@20july1944]

@@edwardprokopchuk3264 Do you experience having a free will? I'll bet you do.

[@TimeisReel]

The Truth is no one knows. No one knows where they were before they were Born or has anyone come back from Death. Religion is Taught Belief Systems... And Hope. My belief is this Life to Big to put any definition on...

[@willyh.r.1216]

We think or want or decide that God knows the future.

[@mathscience757]

LOL

[@bikebudha01]

"how could god know the future?"... That's easy, god knows whatever the fiction author wants him to know...

[@thebacons5943]

Cringe

[@jago76]

Totally depends on how you define "God."

[@docdaytona108]

I’m agnostic, but I find it odd that highly intelligent people who can easily accept that electrons can be in superpositions repeatedly try to ‘collapse’ the nature of God into a point when it comes to any given apparent dichotomy. For all we know (or can hope to understand, more accurately), God could be an endlessly ornate series of superpositions on top of superpositions. Going with that huge shrug of an answer would eliminate about two-thirds of the videos here, but it seems more reasonable than trying to thread so many needles with one thread.

[@taylorwestmore4664]

A quibble: A quantum particle in a superposition, contrary to common belief, is not really in two (or more) states at once. Rather, a superposition means that there is more than one possible outcome of a measurement. The wave mechanical properties of particles also means that a particle is not in an infinitesimal point, it is a standing wave in a field which occupies a volume of space where it has amplitude maximums and minimums, and has an internal topology which changes over time, it acquires a phase like a rotating object would, it has modes that it vibrates in with different geometric shapes, and when for example, an electron encounters an anti-electron, the standing waves are out of phase, and annihilate through superposition, and the result is gamma rays or other particles which carry away the appropriate amount of energy/momentum, because that energy and momentum cannot be destroyed, only change form.

[@DS-11]

What quibble said😀

[@docdaytona108]

@@taylorwestmore4664 Thank you for ‘clarifying’ (I’m not sure my brain meets the minimum specs for full comprehension). But my point about a God having seemingly oxymoronic or impossible characteristics for those of us bound to conventional spacetime (that’s all of us, I think, plus or minus some gurus?) remains.

[@idrisarab5110]

Respect Sir 👍👍👍

[@idrisarab5110]

Why not this argument :- God, Allah or that super power ( by whatever name you call ) is the Creator. He is the creater of cause and event. It is impossible for creation to go beyond certain limit, be planck lenth, time or unobservable universe. He has put many obstacles, curtains in between him, his creation and us. There are lot more to learn and explore. We have to prove to his all creation that we are the superior in all aspect of existence compare to his other creation including Shaitan from Jinn community. In all the aspect of intelectual life including morality and spirituality. Tha day Shaitan, devil will surrender to human, it will be game over. Because, that is how the game started. Despite God's order Shaitan did not pay respect to Adam considering his superiarity over that creation from mud, earth. He ( Shaitan )asked permission from Allah to give him time to prove it. I am sure, Allah will provide us time and means of sustainance till the time we prove Adam's superiarity. Today it is our earth that is sustaining us tomorrow some other addresses in Milky Way. Allah hu Akbar - God is great.

[@indigatorveritatis219]

Didn't know Polkinghorne was an open theist

[@EmdrGreg]

I am not a theologian and I am not a believer. But I wonder sometimes how a deity anything like the Judeo-Christian deity could know every detail of the future, and still enjoy existing. That deity, with all the power knowledge and insight implied, can never enjoy wondering how something is going to work out, ever, throughout all eternity past and future. What an utterly boring and frankly useless existence that would be.

[@MrTonyJ]

Learn about the concept of counter-factuals.

[@mkhud50n]

I guess sacrifice runs in the family. 🤷‍♂️

[@gestrandetdes5172]

You're wondering......how a god isn't able to enjoy the World Cup finals....because he already knows the winner? 🤦‍♂

[@20july1944]

@Greg Scott: I think you're on to something there: it would be boring to have no family in heaven (I say as a Christian) so He finds it rewarding to create freewill creatures like me.

[@gestrandetdes5172]

@@20july1944 As if assuming mental states for a god wasn't naive enough, let's give the god human feelings like being "bored" or "rewarding" feelings. The naivity is truly amazing...

[@kimsahl8555]

God (and you and I) don't know the future before future becomes the past.

[@RickMacDonald19]

In the beginning the universe creating itself and the universe having intelligent design were equally probable, both equally miraculous. Considering all that we know now it is more likely that we are currently existing in an intelligently designed reality.

[@b.g.5869]

To create is to bring into being; it's not possible for the universe to create itself as it would require it to precede itself which is incoherent. You could in principle speculate that a universe which always existed and is itself in some mysterious way sentient could have some influence over how it evolves. I don't think there are any good reasons for thinking this is the case, but that would be the only way the universe could be coherently said to 'create itself'; this wouldn't be a 'creation' in an absolute, 'ex nihilo' sense however. Of course the traditional Christian idea of the universe being created by god 'ex nihilo' (i.e. out of nothing) isn't an absolute beginning either because if there was a god before there was a universe then there was already _something_ before or otherwise outside of the universe and hence a creator god isn't a coherent explanation of why there is something rather than nothing.

[@RickMacDonald19]

@@b.g.5869 I agree, but M-Brane theorists would disagree.

[@b.g.5869]

@@RickMacDonald19 No they wouldn't. M-Brane theory is irrelevant to this point.

[@RickMacDonald19]

@@b.g.5869 kzbin.infoUgkxcy8sdVyEm4v0CYop-RnALTkux5nQkME6

[@b.g.5869]

@@RickMacDonald19 This doesn't support your point; it refutes it. You're incredibly confused.

[@jimmock1155]

Jesus said numerous times, “He has ears to hear, let him hear”….Obviously Jesus believed that some can not perceive his precepts.

[@rahinc]

If you’re serious about getting “closer to truth,” then stop bringing up the absurd notion of “god” in so many of these videos. Stick with science and avoid superstition.

[@billz9303]

If God can see the future then then why let bad people be born only to go to hell..why not just cut to the chase and create the souls right in heaven instead of all this bs before

[@bobmusil1458]

Does god know the future? It’s sad that smart people are wasting their time thinking about such silly questions. It’s just like asking “How can superman fly?”

[@absupinhere]

If you even need to ask this question, then you skipped lesson #1 hahaha How can the reason why time exists know the future? Lmao

[@yarednegede6162]

The future doesn't created yet.so god can't know the future .

[@chrisrace744]

If god is timeless and always existed, then why not just accept the universe always existed. QED

[@mr1234567899111]

🤔 "God is not dependent on existence" --

[@peterlethbridge7859]

if god knew the future, why would he/she bother

[@merrillbartle4174]

This guys Lost, he’s trying to explain God with science, not Faith. The reason there is a future is because God ordains the Future, scripture says God controls very thing, that includes the future ✝

[@DEPARTMENTOFREDUNDANCYDEPT]

Godly omniscience negates the possibility of free will. They cannot logically coexist. If god "knows" what I am going to do tomorrow and god is never wrong, I no longer have a "choice" about what I am going to tomorrow. This is a logical fallacy which no theist has ever been able to explain away or solve for me.

[@vm-bz1cd]

Finally!!!!!!!!!!!! i found someone who has articulated but I have come to believe now for some time that even IF a GOD exists, he does not CHOOSE to know the Future, since the entire Universe(s) is a GAME for him/her anyway and knowing the outcome in advance would spoil all the fun 😀

[@20july1944]

That is certainly a possibility -- I'm agnostic but open to it.

[@ferrisburgh802]

This conversation completely ignores evolution. And the fact that the idea of God was created by people. So this guy is saying that God has the same intellectual constraints as people, that being inept and given to conspiracy theories.

[@1234567marks]

As usual parameters not set at the outset of the discussion , first question, WHICH GOD?, a thousand to choose from, the interviewee believes in his own undefined “God”, for the other 999 he’s an atheist, totally and utterly bonkers this whole religion thing, believers all over the world believing their own gods are the only true gods, hard to understand the mentality that ignores this glaringly obvious issue with all religious faiths, they can’t all be right!!!!.