John Riley: The Art of Bop Drumming 15: Why I Play Traditional Grip

In this lesson series, Zildjian artist John Riley provides a deep dive into many of the topics in his best selling book, "The Art of Bop Drumming".
From discussions on creating the appropriate sounds to musical phrasing and song structure, this series will cover a wide range of topics that is sure to enlighten any student or teacher who is interested in improving his or her jazz playing.
In this particular lesson John demonstrates the swing playing style of the early swing era and how it evolved in the bebop era.
For more lessons on The Art of Bop Drumming from John Riley, visit: zildjian.com/e...
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[@rodolfoferreira]

Best explanation about matched vs traditional grip I ever saw in my 50 years of drumming… 👏🥁

[@belik83]

His every word is truly backed by a lifetime of music and study, this man is always an inspiration!

[@themole2024]

I'm and 'older' self taught drummer. Now after 10 years of heel up/matched grip playing I am transitioning to heel down/traditional grip. Wish I'd kept at it years ago since jazz drumming is my idiom. Keep learning and trying new things to keep it fun and challenging I guess..

[@farshimelt]

I played trad grip for 35 yrs. and played mostly Jazz. When I began to play a wider variety of music, particularly 8th and 16th-note music, I changed to matched grip because it gave me more power. For Jazz, I went back to traditional grip. I had a background as a tympanist, so it wasn't difficult to change to matched grip. I studied with Richard Wilson for 2 yrs. to improve my matched grip chops. I like having the choice.

[@poserp]

Yes! I play a form of double-traditional, and I've noticed too that doing that is practicing overhand grip at the same time. Glad I'm not the only one who's noticed.

[@devilscoachorse]

That explanation has blown my mind. This has been an ongoing issue for me for a very long time and I have noticed all these comments to be true. If I am constantly working on my traditional grip, I always find my match grip is up to par. I think I'm not the only drummer who plays traditional grip to have this constant nagging in the back of their mind as to which grip to use. This has really clarified it for me. Thanks so much.

[@gonzalobarreiro3990]

There is something in John´s elocuence that is almost mesmerizing. So clear and warm. Love his insights on drumming.

[@Drummin4jesus1]

It always comes down to the music. Well said John!

[@jazzpianoman01]

This is the best explanation; for me I use both grips according to the music, like for Rock or Funk I’ll use match grip but jazz I’ll use traditional; just works for me that way. No hard and fast rules to any of this, it’s what works for you, and many drummers do just fine playing all styles including jazz solely using match grip.

[@barrybecker3706]

Brilliantly explained.

[@kamrankerim636]

I was playing with match grip back in the day, and my left hand was just not comfortable. It was off. When I switched to trad grip I was way more comfortable, and it was a very smooth transition honestly. Since then I have only been using trad grip.

[@crimjqt83]

That's how I feel now. My left hand is now uncomfortable playing in matched grip

[@robertstrobel7237]

Fantastic.

[@kennethtaylor964]

I started playing in 1961. Playing traditional grip was definitely seen as the hallmark of a schooled drummer.

[@danielcohn6884]

Super insightful

[@crazy8sdrums]

I like John's explanation here. It clearly works for him and it could work for many others. I have a different explanation. With trad grip, you can work the stick at a much greater angle relative to the drumhead, which can mean expanded dynamics palette in the softer range. You can play much quieter with the traditional grip. I disagree with the 'stick with one technique' approach. Practice both to maximum effect, as you will gain control over the soft and also the loud dynamic range. Practice also the switch between trad and matched so that you won't need to think about it, it will just naturally happen.

[@farshimelt]

I disagree with the volume thesis. I can play as quietly with one as with the other, but I can't play as loud with traditional grip.

[@thibodaux3424]

I started playing rock early on using matched grip before moving on to jazz later. I decided to stay with matched although I must say that there are some stick on stick ideas that are much easier to play using traditional grip. Other than that I don't think there's anything soundwise that's an advantage. Something Thomas Lang said was that the time and effort to get your hands together is doubled if you use traditional grip purely because of its asymmetrical and awkward nature. I think he has a good point but I'm sure others will disagree!

[@dominiccalzetti]

Yeah I remember Thomas Lang speaking about it, and it all rang true to me too... but I think he really hit the nail on the head when he spoke the upside of the 'asymmetry' of traditional grip, with the interesting phrases that come about as a result.. what it does to your mind essentially hahaa then he went on to say that his favourite players to listen to play traditional grip, for that reason. It's actually a really interesting point to consider. The fact that technically it holds absolutely no advantages whatsover, it's harder to learn, it has more limitations - but at the end of the day it seems to produce interesting music...

[@derek5168]

The key points he makes is the music tells you which techniques to use from traditional to matched grip and heel up or flat foot Phil seamen is the only guy you can watch and listen to who only used matched grip and played be bop brilliantly

[@farshimelt]

Phil's shadow, Ginger Baker also.

[@derek5168]

@@farshimelt ginger first used traditional grip even occasionally during the cream days

[@russellesimonetta9071]

Uhh, most of us have a dominate hand. If your are playing rock on a big set matched is the way to! Jazz is more intricate and traditional is kind of an equalizer when it comes to facility between the hands. I learned both but traditional is comfortable for me!

[@RockerBug17]

People gravitate toward matched and heal up because, much like a newborn learning to grasp something, fine motor control takes time to develop. It is much quicker to use larger muscle groups than it is to use smaller.

[@KaiOwensDrums]

@@rmarchand that’s true but that is not too say it is less comfortable or natural feeling. That is just to say that it goes against our human instinct to death grip and hit stuff like it’s a hammer. Which one could argue is a good instinct to train away

[@themole2024]

Great observation..

[@drummersagainstitk]

IMO Traditional grip automatically gears your mind to think, control, create strong side. The weak side becomes only complimentary. Especially with traditional set ups which unintentionally causes all kinds of logistical and technical problems down the road. Use traditional when playing jazz. But there are too many advantages in motion and technique with matched. "Sound of the music" isn't really the issue to focus on.

[@joecoleman288]

On the practice pad I'm traditional all the way, match is awkward. On the drumset, exactly vise versa. I wish my marching days would translate to the kit like Keith Carlock's did. But nope!

[@DevonHberman-im6bx]

There’s two kinda folks: people who can play both and those who whine and talk crap about a grip they can’t play. It’s not traditional grip’s fault that you don’t wanna practice it long enough to see it’s benefits. 😂

[@doumbec]

Truthfully there was absolutely no logic in so called traditional grip after the invention of the drum set. No more lopsided hanging snare drum which brought that technique into existence in the first place out of military drumming. Seems to me drummers and drum teachers from way back should have started to completely phase that technique out..