Winchester Model 1897 Shotgun - In The Movies

[@JohnnyJohnsonEsq]

Thanks to everyone who added some discussion about the M97 not being so reliable in the trenches due to the poor quality paper cartridges. Also thank you to anyone who pointed out I mislabeled "The Professionals" as the "The Wild Bunch." I'm a team of one so I usually have an editing mistake or four. I greatly appreciate all the sharing of knowledge by everyone on this channel.

[@Lomi311]

Thank you for making this content! There’s a great C&Rsenal vid on this gun. I’d suggest them for quick research on anything WW1 era. m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/pYOypaeYiNCUr7c

[@dennisyoung4631]

Hence use of all-brass shells in ww1 and ww2?

[@ElmoUnk1953]

Sorry, I’d already posted by the time I saw your comment. Great video!

[@viciousvictortee1298]

I caught 1 or 2 l. Respect.

[@TheJarric]

@@dennisyoung4631 they had paper ones early on in ww1 not sure if they corrected it by war time

[@williamlydon2554]

During the fighting in the Southern Philippines islands between 1899-1912, American troops found themselves outmatched by the sheer tenacity of the native Moro tribesmen, who would bind their limbs before battle, attacking in reproduction Spanish iron breastplates with wild battle cries, they could shrug off hits from 38.caliber rounds. The U S Army began looking for heavier hitting weapons (leading to the eventual adoption of the 45. caliber round but that's a different story) and found one in the 1897 Winchester. It was so well regarded for it's effectiveness in combat that General Pershing, who had first hand experience with them, ordered the wrapons brought to Europe when he took command of the American Exbiditionary Force in Europe in 1917.

[@williamlydon2554]

It also does appear with it's Bayonet affixed, in the horror anthology series "Tales from the Crypt" in a 1991 episode set during WW1. kzbin.info/www/bejne/bZqxfX55nd-spZI

[@warpartyattheoutpost4987]

@@williamlydon2554, thanks for the link! I'm gonna watch it now, I love "Tales from the Crypt"! I also love the .45, that's what my concealed carry weapon is chambered in.

[@dukecraig2402]

Model 1897 shotguns procured during the Phillipine Campaign were not official military issue, they were purchased privately by individual soldiers and sometimes with unit funds. General Pershing first had pump shotguns issued to troops during the time he spent chasing Poncho Villa around in Mexico in 1916, although not with the bayonet lug/handguard adaptor. Once he was named commander of the American Expeditionary Force for the US's involvement in WW1 he task shotgun manufacturers with outfitting pump shotguns with a way to mount a bayonet and have a heatshield to protect the shooters off-hand from being burned by a hot barrel during bayonet exercises. Not mentioned in this video is the other type of pump shotgun that saw service in WW1 alongside the Model 1897 Winchester in both trench and riot configurations, the Model 10 Remington, it had a bayonet lug very similar to the Winchester's but instead of having a perforated metal handguard that was riveted directly to the bayonet lug it had a wooden handguard, the backside of the bayonet lug had a sheet metal piece on it that had a lip that the front of the wooden handguard fit into in a very similar manner to how the front of the handguard of a M1903 or M1917 rifle fits into it's front band, this makes sense since Remington was making the M1917 rifle (previous to that the P14 British version) and would naturally fashion fitting a handguard onto a shotgun in a manner they were already doing. Model 10 Remington trenchguns that are intact are exceedingly rare, it was found during the war that the wooden handguard's on them broke far more easily than the metal ones on the Winchester's so after the war Army Depots usually cut the barrels off of them even with where the backside of the bayonet lug thus making them into strictly riot guns for MP and guard duty use, along with them being surplused out to prisons and police forces. Also not mentioned in this video is the fact that both of the types of trenchguns used the US 1917 bayonet that fit the M1917 rifle and not the M1905 bayonet that fit the M1903 rifle, it was deemed that since ⅔rds of the troops would actually have the M1917 rifle as opposed to the M1903 and since Winchester and Remington were both already making the M1917 bayonet because they were both making the M1917 rifle it made more sense to use it on the shotguns. As late as the Vietnam War the US government still was having new production M1917 style bayonets made for service since even the trenchguns made during WW2 still mounted the M1917 bayonet.

[@dukecraig2402]

@@williamlydon2554 Good eye and I remember seeing that episode when it came out. However that particular Model 97 is incorrect for being in WW1, it's a WW2 manufactured Winchester 97. For WW1 Model 1897 Winchester shotguns were procured in 2 forms, "trenchguns" which were made on solid frame receivers and standard police "riot guns" which were built on take down receivers that were used for guard duty and not front line use, trenchguns were actually built on standard police riot gun solid frame actions since the bayonet lug/handguard assembly negated the take down feature. By WW2 Winchester no longer offered Model 97's with the solid frame receiver so all WW2 era Model 97 trenchguns were made on take down receivers even though once again the take down feature is negated once a bayonet lug/handguard assembly is mounted. The shotgun in that show is a take down receiver which makes it a WW2 produced Model 97, also during WW1 the correct name was Winchester Model 1897, by WW2 Winchester had shortened it to just Model 97.

[@konradviii5663]

As someone else has pointed out, in WW1 the 1897 was actually rather disappointing, for one thing, and one thing alone: Ammo. The paper shells of the time lent poorly to the wet, damp conditions of the trenches, leading to frequent failures. The Brass shells fared better, but they had their own problems.

[@MaxwellAerialPhotography]

Too add to this, brass military shotshells weren’t available in any appreciable quantities until the last month or two of the Great War, and even then they had some issues due to rushed manufacturing. It was only by the beginning of the Second World War that brass buckshot military ammo was widely available and totally reliable.

[@dukecraig2402]

@@MaxwellAerialPhotography They weren't "rushed into production", full brass length shot shells had been being produced for years before WW1 in all shot sizes from buckshot to birdshot all the way back to the old west, the reason the US Military started out with the wax impregnated paper shells in WW1 is simply because they were cheaper. The main problem with the wax impregnated paper shells wasn't misfires as most people incorrectly assume, the problem was them swelling up in the magazine tube and hanging up in it causing them not to feed, Model 97's whether a trench or riot gun require tools to disassemble the magazine tube prohibiting the user from being able to clear the weapon, once the problem was identified the Army quickly ordered the all brass hull shot shells to remedy the problem, contrary to what some people have written in the comments section of this video the all brass shot shells did see service in France before the end of WW1. As is typical with the Army it quite often forgets the lessons it learned in the previous war and at the beginning of WW2 it made the same mistake by purchasing wax impregnated paper hull shot shells for use, and just like with WW1 as soon as they identified the problem all brass shot shells were procured and rushed into service.

[@Gieszkanne]

So nobody had the idea to wax the paper shells?

[@dukecraig2402]

@@Gieszkanne They were wax impregnated.

[@MaxwellAerialPhotography]

@@dukecraig2402 that only does so much when you are living in a nearly aquatic environment of rain and mud for weeks on end.

[@dasgruukmaster1520]

Loved how you include the anime desert punk. Still my favorite quote from the show "He's had 308 caliber rifle, rocket, grenade launchers, even a hovercraft over the years but he still wonders around with that old shotgun (1897) and nothing more. Living care free from day to day and nothing else matters."

[@benjaminbuchanan7151]

There’s a scene from Pacific where Pvt. Evans is just eviscerating Japanese soldiers with a trench gun. Definitely a terrifying but effective weapon against banzai charges.

[@craigLimpach]

When I was 15 (65 now) my Dad gave me my '97. It belonged to my Grand dad and it's the only shotgun I have ever used to hunt ducks, geese pheasants, quail, turkey, rabbits, squirrels, woodchucks, about 150 whitetailed deer, a caribou and 56" moose in Alaska. I shot the caribou at 133 yards and the moose at 20 feet as he ran straight at me. I have probably fired thousands of rounds through that gun at this point and have NEVER had a mechanical failure of any sort and have NEVER had the bolt hit my hand either. It is the best shotgun ever made!

[@MiishaKorvian]

I have one that I found used, at a sporting guns store in Davison, Michigan. It's factory riot length, has a reproduction heat-shield/lug, and as non-factory sling on the stock. Serial puts it as 1947, lacks the armory stamp, or any other additional serials numbers. A practice that followed by the Detroit, MI Police Department. I want the bayonet to finish the look that I fell in love with because of the presented Anime "Gunslinger Girl". XD But I can't afford it, reproduction ones are 1.5x the cost of the gun when I got it, don't get me started on originals. But yeah, love it though, I take it rabbit hunting and clay shooting. But while I've not had any mechanical problems, I've bit by the bolt before, I just don't remember how.

[@slaphappypappy3782]

I have. That's why I named mine Ol' Thumbuster. Ya learn real quick to keep a low grip with the right hand!

[@MiishaKorvian]

@@slaphappypappy3782 ....I'm such a nerd I named mine "Wendy", and legit wrote up the specs for a waifu'd art commission. DX

[@shannonnicollechannel5884]

I have my grandpa’s old 97 as well! I’m in love with it just as much now as I was the day I got it 20 years ago

[@tomservo5347]

I have one of these from my grandpa. I think it's the police riot version with shortened barrel and Cutts compensator adjustable choke. It's great for home defense because the thing sounds like a bank vault slamming shut when you cycle it-the last thing any intruder wants to hear.

[@mnguy98]

The reason I've heard as to why the German Empire protested American combat use of the shotgun was because of contemporary German aristocracy's perception of shotguns; namely, as a sporting tool solely for hunting game. To an aristocratic commander, it could've been perceived that American soldiers saw Germans as little more than game animals to be shot for sport

[@thecamocampaindude5167]

Oh i just thought that it was just very violent for wounds

[@some_humvee8466]

They're not game animals?

[@mnguy98]

@@some_humvee8466 Well yeah, obviously not, but if your only exposure/perception to shotguns was as a tool for hunting game, it wouldn't be that hard to feel extremely disrespected if your enemy started using shotguns against your men

[@sovietsnake2729]

Not as disrespectful as sparying people with chlorine gas like insects lol

[@MrDwarfpitcher]

I always thought that it is also quite a bit more of a tool to make one suffer. At range, being hit by a 8mm round from a rifle can kill quickly, but the shotgun will generally hurt but not kill. But I do believe that using poison gas, shrapnel, fire and even blunt force weapons kinda throws the notion of 'clean killing' out the window

[@edwardvincentbriones5062]

Fun fact: the term “You can have my gun, when you pry it from my cold dead fingers.” is a popular term that is the reaction of many gun owners in the US to the government gun laws that were imposed. I think the movie “Red Dawn” has a sticker of it at the back of their van.

[@iowa_lot_to_travel9471]

Its in the rear window of a pickup truck. Then a 1911 pistol is removed from the hands of a dead civilian

[@fredlandry6170]

It was on the bumper sticker of a truck I think as the Soviet Soldier was taking it from the dead man.

[@warpartyattheoutpost4987]

Well... they still can't have my gun unless they pry it from my cold dead fingers. Art imitates life.

[@AHappyCub]

Which makes no sense since if such uprising occur, they would almost instantly lose since no one in their right mind would support it (at least openly) TL;DR Only idiots would think that a bunch of rebel militia can win against a fully equipped modern army, which more than likely would have some international support

[@warpartyattheoutpost4987]

@@AHappyCub... read a history book, kid.

[@Joe3pops]

Very good! You should highlight another iconic American shotgun. Ithaca M37, another John Browning design with several wars and little wars under its belt.

[@willpatton7740]

in my opinion, the model 37 is the best pump ever made

[@thatstahlhelmwehrmachtguy9605]

This is one of the few vintage shotguns that is still favorited by many civilians along with the Browning A5

[@djolley61]

Shotguns, in general, are very versatile, being able to shoot everything from birdshot to slugs and even double slugs. Specialty rounds can be fired like flechettes (dozens of dart-shaped projectiles), and dragon's breath.

[@diegorincon4673]

Dragons breath is just terrifying. Shooting fire? Goddamn, I think I agree with the Germans.

[@djolley61]

@@diegorincon4673 Yeah, more of a novelty, I remember seeing a video where they started a fire and it almost got out of control.

[@diegorincon4673]

@@djolley61 was it the FPS Russia one were they accidentally set the hay bales on fire?

[@djolley61]

@@diegorincon4673 No, it was in the U.S. somewhere. Been a while since I watched it.

[@warpartyattheoutpost4987]

@@djolley61, I had some flechettes. Nasty against soft tissue.

[@edwardvincentbriones5062]

Off-topic: I watched the Shadow in the Cloud movie a few days ago; after I watched the B-17 in movies video, and I was surprised by how good this movie is. The main character is badass, the B-17 scenes are realistic; horror, while present, were not enough to give me nightmares; the action is intense, including survival in the aircraft scenes, and many more. The fight near the end is well choreographed and cool. The film is just surprisingly good.

[@warpartyattheoutpost4987]

That's the one with Hit Girl in it! I wanted see it but I forgot about it, thanks for the reminder!

[@dukecraig2402]

Thanks for the reference, first I've heard of that and I'll definitely be checking it out. 👍

[@ismu34]

I thought it was good until she started climbing on the underside of the plane lol

[@mtchet123]

"Alright, I'm Johnny!" will one day become an American classic too! Love it!

[@jonathanzobel1662]

An one who owns a M97 I think it's summed up quite well here. I have the riot version that was made in 1910 if you're curious. It still works just fine too.

[@666toysoldier]

When my uncle passed, I took possession of his firearms until his son could collect them. One was a 30"-barreled '97 that wasn't functional. All it took was some penetrating spray and lube to get it running again, clackety-clack, clackety clack. All solid machined steel.

[@61mab]

Ha Fun to see the Trench I just broke down and detailed in the flicks. I found that mine is younger than I am? Just put it back together after detailing, de-rusting and replacing the parts I lost whilst doing so. Has some problem reassembling but it's working now after a right hand extractor replacement and now the ejector spring screw replacing on the way with the original for the crap redux someone in the past had done. Thanks, that was fun.

[@madjackblack5892]

My M97 Indiana State Police 12 gauge was stolen while I was in Afghanistan. Wife also left me. Damn, I miss that gun.

[@warpartyattheoutpost4987]

I just spit beer everywhere. Thanks.

[@dukenukem69]

Your wife took more magnum loads than the '97

[@lawrencemarocco8197]

Also, the mob assassin in "Bullett" used a Model 97.

[@brianwinters5434]

When I was in Viet Nam in 1967 as an MP we had a mix of Remington 870s Winchester model 12s and 1 Winchester 97. 1 old master Seargent carried the 97. You did not want to be on the muzzle end of his gun.

[@stang3787]

The 97 was used in "The Wild Bunch". Ernest Borgnine uses it in the final shootout along with Warren Oates. In case you reissue this great video.

[@andrewmoens8614]

Yes, this is a serious shotgun, thanks to legendary John Browning. Most modern guns are an engineered design of Browning's genius mind.😊

[@rpower1401]

Great firearm, just have to watch out so you don't get bit by the sliding action at the rear of the receiver.

[@simonpotter7534]

Good to see Triela from the anime Gunslinger Girl getting her favorite weapon ready.

[@RexApplegate]

Many of these films I grew up watching, so I bought one. One problem endemic to the take downs is the action shooting itself loose and no longer firing reliably until serviced by a skilled gunsmith with a bunch of selective fit parts. Found that out after I got mine. This is why the trench guns were exclusively solid frame. A good gun for its day, and a fun gun for today. But vastly too complex to justify mainstream use anymore.

[@ddegn]

I'm not really a Three Stodges fan but those Stodges clips sure were entertaining. I had some how missed watching this video when previously binging your channel. Thanks for another fun and interesting video.

[@slapper360]

2:37 now I know where the halo CE shotgun reload sound effect is from

[@leecrt967]

Unfortunately, the Model 1897 was not effective on the WWI battlefield, as it's cardboard cartridges would swell up under wet conditions and jam the pump action. This was a big problem until they went with metal cartridges, but by that time the war was over. "Forgotten Weapons" and Othias covers this shortcoming.

[@dukecraig2402]

Well Forgotten Weapons highly exaggerated about several things apparently, first off the troops loved them and they proved to be highly effective especially with troops assaulting trenches. The problem with the wax impregnated paper cartridges basically only really affected night raiding parties who had to crawl through shell holes while trying to sneak into German lines, while crawling through the water filled shell holes the cartridges would get wet and swell up in the magazine tube and get hung up in them causing them not to feed into the action, this problem was quickly identified and until all brass cartridges were procured and sent to France the troops who handled shotguns (including the Model 10 Remington which was also outfitted as a trenchgun in the war) learned to keep the shells dry and to keep the shotguns from being immersed in water. There's a bunch of misinformation going around about the use of shotguns in WW1 and the ammunition used in them that seems to stem from Forgotten Weapons, well Gun Jesus isn't God, he gets it wrong about a lot of things, not only with shotguns in WW1 but other arms to. All brass shot shells were being produced long before WW1, all the way back to the old west in everything from buckshot to birdshot, the only reason the military chose paper shot shells for use in WW1 is simply because they were cheaper, the US was trying to equip a one million man Army and had a budget it had to work inside of, after the problems with the paper shells was identified all brass buckshot rounds were procured and rushed to France, these proved to solve the ammo related problems and the shotguns proved to be very reliable. And the US Army in it's typical fashion has the habit of forgetting the lessons it learns in the previous war so naturally when the US entered WW2 it initially ordered paper shot shells for use in shotguns, and once again when the same problem was identified it immediately procured all brass shot shells and rushed them into service. I've been collecting US military shotguns for over 30 years and have read many of the after action reports on them from WW1 to Vietnam, I can assure you that overwhelmingly the troops in WW1 that handled them loved them and wouldn't give one up for a rifle any day of the week. Another weapon he sreads a lot of myths around about is the M14 rifle, never in the history of firearms has there been one that's had as much misinformation spread around about it than the M14, and Gun Jesus just repeats a bunch of the myths about it, I couldn't even finish watching that video and afterwards refused to watch any more of his.

[@billhale9740]

I do believe in the WW1 era military twelve gauge shells were brass seen them in Vietnam in 1967

[@mugsnvicki]

an excellent review Johnny. I actually learned a lot. And the Norinco shotguns are still available in Canada. Sorry US, banned there.

[@DeusVult-nn8yq]

2:57 I can see where Valve got the inspiration for one of TF2 Soldier’s voice lines

[@Hollyclown]

Germans in WWI: the use of the Trench gun is cruel and unusual. Also Germans: Hanz get za Flammenwerfer!

[@McPh1741]

My favorite shotgun. I own a ‘97 made in 1949 that had cut down to a 20” barrel and I own a Norinco trench gun replica. My real Winchester is a takedown model which is actually more common than the solid frame.

[@brentwhite7150]

That's cool I own a 97' made in 1912 it's got that long hunting barrel. I got it for a good price about 6 years ago it still runs like a champ.

[@Gieszkanne]

How is the Norinco?

[@McPh1741]

@@Gieszkanne I've never had a problem with it. It's a solid frame, non takedown, but all the real trench guns were. It has no trigger disconnect, so it can slam fire. The quality and fit and finish are great. I tell myself, even though it's made in China, the manufacturing processes in modern China have to be at least on par with 1897 America.

[@hancock63]

This shotgun also had the nickname, "Knucklebuster." When you pumped the shotgun, the bolt came back and if your thumb was in the way, OUCH!!!

[@brentwhite7150]

It takes some getting used to it almost happened to me one time when I first bought mine.

[@Stonewielder]

Another entertaining video! Loved the inclusion of Serenity (huge Firefly fan) and the Stooges!

[@hectormartinez9657]

I love shotguns! Have 2, Mossberg 500, Maverick 88.

[@doraran2138]

Not a movie, but a real life incident, in the 1934 Kansas City Union Station massacre, an Oklahoma Chief of Police, loaned his M1897, 16 gauge, loaded with ball bearings, to an agent unfamiliar with the slam fire feature. Where 4 mobsters, 2 armed with Thompsons, others with M1911s stolen from a National Guard armory, approached vehicle with fellow mobster Frank Nash in front seat the agent, behind him in back sear, with with '97 pumped the action while holding the trigger blowing Nash's head open and triggering a free fire from other law enforcement and the mobsters. The mob's idea was to approach the car with 2 Tommy Guns and 2 .45s against cops with .38 revolvers and one shotgun, hoping to intimidate situation without any need for shooting. Obviously the agent's negligent discharge changed all that.

[@brothercaptainwarhammer]

One of my Favorite Shotguns, Perhaps one of the Weapons that Got me into Shotguns, especially Pump Action Ones, the M1897 Trench is my Most Favorite of all the Variants this Shotgun has... This Weapon to me is Just Badass and Awesome, especially the Trench Gun Variant, with its Perforated Heat Shield, a Bayonet, and Shorter Barrel... Gives a Short but Deadly vibe to it... I also Love the Fact that it can Be Slam Fired! Though Risky, but damn its just So Awesome and Deadly Awesome! America: *(Develops a Shotgun thay can Clear Trenches in a Few Shots)* Germany: Hey thats Illegal... We're Filing a Complaint and Ban for it! We'll also Punish severely those who Use the Weapon! America: Yeah, says the One who Developed Biological and Toxic Gas Weapons and Flamethrowers... We'll also Punish severely those that use Flamethrowers as well as Biological and Toxic Gas Weaponry... What do you say about that? Germany: Erm... Um... Scheisse... America: Though so Bitch... Great Video Johnny! Keep up the Amazing Work Comrade! Keep the Good Shit Rolling, my Friend!

[@johnnyflores5954]

Not gonna lie I loved using this Shotgun in Call of Duty: World at War, when your playing as a Marine in the Pacific. Worked well stoping Japanese Bonzai charges, real good.

[@edwarddailey21]

The slamfire trench broom, the Thompson was supposed to be the ultimate trench broom but didn't quite make it to trials before the war ended.

[@nelsonsham2368]

In MoH: Airborner you can get the M1897 with the Bayonet when you upgrade it, also Magnum buckshot shell

[@McPh1741]

Like I said, I own a Winchester and a Norinco replica. I still would like to get a Model 12. Another favorite shotgun that I own 2 of is the Stevens 520. It’s another Browning design that doesn’t get enough attention. It was also used in both World wars and has a distinctive humpback receiver (double hump on older models). It too is milled from solid steel, breaks in two, and how’s no trigger disconnect. I have modern pump guns but I love the feel and sound of an older pump shotgun. Would you do an episode on the Stevens 520?

[@JohnnyJohnsonEsq]

I'll add it to the list 👍

[@garrisonnichols807]

The Winchester Model 12 was a much better shotgun than the M97. It's action is more enclosed inside the receiver and it doesn't have the external hammer issue of getting damaged or accidentally discharging if dropped. The M97 was also used by the Wells Fargo company to protect their stagecoaches which were still common in the early 20th century.

[@stevenbartlett2968]

I have 2 use them at home youngest daughter loves to shoot trap with one fits well

[@warpartyattheoutpost4987]

@@stevenbartlett2968, I'm jealous... you wanna sell one? I can't slamfire my Mossberg.😪

[@stevenbartlett2968]

There family sorry

[@dukecraig2402]

That's nonsense, I've owned many of both and that's total nonsense. And if you don't think a Model 12 Winchester won't discharge from being dropped then you go right ahead and stand in front of one that's loaded and gets dropped if you're so confident about that. The proper way to handle a Model 97 in a safe manner that has one in the chamber is to have it on half cock, if you've ever had one apart you'd know that the half cock notch on the hammer is U shaped and completely captures the sear part of the trigger, when in that state you can drop it on the hammer or strike the hammer with an object and it'll never fall on the firing pin, anyone who'd carry a Model 97 with one in the chamber and the hammer resting on the firing pin instead of having it on half cock deserves to shoot their own foot off, only a complete idiot would do something like that, there as safe as any firearm ever made when handled the way they're designed to be handled. John Moses Browning was highly intelligent and didn't design unsafe or junk firearms, obviously you've never owned or handled a Model 97.

[@Gieszkanne]

All shotguns with internal hammer arent drop safe either! The good thing with the 1897 is that you can store it safely with a loaded chamber and hammer down.

[@seancrane1431]

1:39 “Shotgun! Is what he’s gonna use! And then you've got yourself a SUNABOUZU!”

[@joebfnl1079]

I'm so blessed with the fact that I have a 1908 Model 1897!. She's so adorable!.P.S she's a riot gun!. P.P.S Browning started manafacturing solid brass shell's in 12ga. To solve the problem!, And you can still find them at gun shows!!!.(the shotgun sings the song)!!!.

[@mexispartano8381]

Germans in WW1: Shotguns are inhumane. Americans: I don’t give a fuck what you think, Jerry.

[@ColonelFrontline1152]

Winchester Model 1879: *The Infamous Trench Sweeper That Germany Tried & Failed To Have It Banned.*

[@patriotenfield3276]

Germany:- "It's not warcrime if you do it" *Proceeds to gas trenches , both enemy and friendly also Germany :- "Reee Those Amerikkans and der shotguns .Ban them . "

[@johnzeszut3170]

It is a romantic looking shotgun and "The Wild Bunch" made it famous. Improved designs were fast on the way...

[@jackstecker5796]

It may have been able to take a bayonet, but I wonder how much use it actually was? My first shotgun was an M-590a1, with bayonet lug. About the forth round fired with the bayonet, it launched my bayonet downrange at about the speed of smell. When I stumbled across a Surefire dedicated weapon mounted forend light in Cabella's Bargain Cave "missing parts", that looked like the better choice (the only parts missing i could find were the manual, and batteries, and I could get the manual online). Only problem was, it wouldn't go into battery with the light, so I had the bayonet lug ground off, so the gun would work.

[@erroneous6947]

The mossberg 590 A1 is currently used by the U. S. Marines. It has a bayonet lug. Reasonably priced too.

[@Tervamursu]

Great video man! Thank you. Very informative and well made. Could you do FN Browning A5 some day?

[@LMTran]

I realize this is an older video but for a good example of the 1897 on screen, check out the episode "Yellow" from "Tales from the Crypt". It stars Lance Henriksen and Kirk and Michael Douglas as an adaptation of Paths of Glory

[@peterkane9264]

Loved this one but now I'm giddy for the Browning auto-5

[@693514V]

Movie trivia, the 1897 wielded by Lee Marvin in " The Professionals " is the same gun used by William Holden in " The Wild Bunch " . It now resides at the NRA museum in a display on famous weapons used in Hollywood. It still has traces of fake blood from the final shootout at the end of the movie.

[@lib556]

A couple of errors. 1. the shotguns used in the Wild Bunch are Model 12s (at least in the famous bank robbery scene). At the 4 min mark you incorrectly list the clip shown as being the Wild Bunch when, in fact, it is the Professionals.

[@leecrt967]

Excellent use of The Stooges! Love it.

[@haroldellis9721]

They used to make these things, like three blocks, from my house.

[@johncook3817]

Mr browning is the greatest designer of firearms ever!!!

[@backupintheday9710]

You can replace the barrels so you are not damaging it by sawing it down. Just a spare barrel.

[@Bo_Nidle]

I was surprised not to see "The Wild Bunch" (best. western.ever!) shown more, especially considering the prominence of the 1897 shotguns used by Warren Oates and Ernest Borgnines characters., especially in the climactic "Battle of bloody porch". kzbin.info/www/bejne/larWh6KMaN1okNE

[@w0lfr0gue53]

“Babe, new Johnny Johnson lore dropped”

[@jacobiehartie4602]

I love my Ithaca. Slam firing is so fun lol

[@HighFalutinTootin]

Best shotgun of all time

[@vivelaresistance2526]

Hans: Fool my rifle has the longer range and more accurate than that! John: Yeah? How about this? *BONK*

[@BobSmith-dk8nw]

Yeah. The Walking posts I stood as a sentry usually were with an M-14 but there was one that had a shot gun. I don't remember enough about it to say which shot gun it was though. .

[@t.j.payeur5331]

Good editing, good info, thanks for The Stooges too...

[@danzmitrovich6250]

Like the Thompson submachine gun the law had them and the gangsters had them in the 1920s and 1930s as well

[@enriqueoliva6988]

I love watching the three stooges when I was a kid.

[@larry1824]

My dad kept one under his desk at his dairy. Wish I knew where it went

[@quinncoffman3892]

A good movie to watch featuring the 97, assault on precinct 13.

[@fortis3686]

The Trench broom

[@patriotenfield3276]

My Top 10 Favorite Shotgun list 1)SPAS 12 2)AA-12 3)SAIGA 12 4) SPAS 15 5)Armsel striker 6)Neostead 2000 7)Winchester model 1887/1901 8)Itacha 37 9)KSG 10)Benelli 1014

[@sukhoiboy4140]

U mean ithaca lol. Great list btw

[@MsTugg]

I have a 1936 version and 1943 version of the 97 Winchester. Cherry condition. Still shoot both.

[@Antares2]

The only thing more intimidating than a shotgun with a bayonet would be a flamethrower with a bayonet

[@JamesBond-et2hy]

Was this used in European theater? I heard MP did but thats the only thing ive been able to find ..ive been on the search for 2 weeks trying find some information with no luck so i was super excited to see u uploaded this video

[@JohnnyJohnsonEsq]

That's a good question. I've never seen it in the European theatre but I feel like it must have been. I'll look around.

[@codywilliams1506]

Please do a review of the Winchester Model 12

[@danielsmith5023]

Could you not have shown more of The Wild Bunch , it's the best film for the application of that particular shotgun . Good video though . Thanks .

[@cowboywoodard2569]

Watch the WILD Bunch real nasty shotgun shoot out!!

[@scottydouglass1892]

One thing you forgot was how cool looking it is

[@ElmoUnk1953]

Lee Marvin, Burt Lancaster and Claudia Cardinale were in “The Professional’s” not “The Wild Bunch”.

[@lucajohnen6719]

The whole story about the Trench Gun in WW1 is anecdotal, and so is the supposed american reaction on the german statement that people carrying the shotgun or its ammo would be executed. There is about 500 shotguns of various "Riot with Bayonet" configuration that can be traced, of which about 200 ended up in frontline service in France. They were generally considered unsuited for combat and only excelled in night defense. Add to that the paper cartridges that were commonly used instead of full brass and you ended up with a very underwhelming single shot gun.

[@SSgtCalebP]

Fun shotgun, I own two originals of 1935 Vintage and 1907 vintage. Inferior to the Winchester Model 12 that came out just 15 years later (internal hammer is better any day). I love my guns, but they are definitely a gun that is popular due to the “cool factor” of the external hammer. Finicky to disassemble and reassemble, fussier than you’d think with various types of loads. To be clear I LOVE my guns, but they are overrated.

[@nikolai0875]

The Trench Sweeper

[@maximgun3833]

Not sure if anybody has mentioned this yet but the story about shooting grenades out of the air is a myth and instead came from a advertisement by Dupont for skeet shooting shotgun ammo. Recommend watching C&R Arsenal's video on the 1897 to learn more about it.

[@ruairi970]

3:58 that's not the wild bunch. Its from "the Professionals" (1966)

[@Korpsmen]

“Ayo officer nerf this shiz it’s way to op” -some German dude 1918

[@lancepugh6081]

At 3:04 was a scene from The Professionals 1966 with Lee Marvin shown not The Wild Bunch.

[@lancepugh6081]

And 3:56 is also the movie The Professionals not The Wild Bunch.

[@danielcurtis1434]

One issue is the “trench guns”!!! The issue is many were used by police and hence had bayonet lugs despite not being “trench guns”. So this seems to get enough people who mistakenly pass them off as legitimate war manufacture.

[@studinthemaking]

Wasn’t that the shotgun used in the movie bullit?

[@jhlogue]

Boy he's sure getting some use out of that 3 stooges episode.

[@JohnnyJohnsonEsq]

I'm a sucker for slap stick

[@Gunbudder]

6:59 i ALWAYS used a bayonet mounted shotgun in CoD WaW! i got pretty highly ranked, and the sweat lords in the top 100 would give me endless amounts of shit for using the bayonet on the trench gun. in the logic of the game, it was a terrible choice because if you were close enough for a stab, you were close enough for a shot, and closing the gap to stab while not shooting was a bad idea. i made good use of it though because it worked as an extra "shell" in my tube. if i shot dry, in a fight that closed up, i could end with a final poke. poking with the bayonet in that game was an instant kill too. i have no clue how that maps to its real use in war, but generally CoD's tactics are so far away from reality that it becomes its own thing. for example, the absolute best weapon to use in MW2 was a little knife and a pistol (my record with that combo was 72 kills in a match lol)

[@flo_boy]

Could you do a video about the Winchester 1887 in the movies thanks

[@JohnnyJohnsonEsq]

absolutely but please be patient with me as I work my way through some requests

[@OldMusicFan83]

Larry Fine!

[@HawkmanWalker]

So in the video you have The Professionals with Lee Marvin & Burt Lancaster as The Wild Bunch.

[@JohnnyJohnsonEsq]

yah sorry about that little editing mistake

[@bigblue6917]

I knew about the Germans complaining about the shotgun being used by American troops. And that the Germans were using both gas and flamethrowers.

[@OtherWorldExplorers]

Can you Do the C-96 Broom handle It was in Star Wars as the DL-44 blaster Han solo used It was in Fifth element Kung Fu Hustle Why the list goes on on and on!

[@JohnnyJohnsonEsq]

Absolutely getting very high on the list

[@kristinejackson8268]

They had a 97 in the movie bullet in the chase seen

[@austism1]

wow interesting idea shooting grenades coming at you with a shotgun like clay shooting lol

[@yewkyler7686]

Can you make a video about the uzi and the double barrel shotgun

[@JohnnyJohnsonEsq]

Uzi is getting high on the list forsure

[@yewkyler7686]

What about the ak-47

[@ComissarYarrick]

German protest against shotguns in ww1 was more a PR and propaganda move, than a real humanitarian or military concern. Also they weren't as efective in trench warfare as some claimed, as thier ammo have serious reliability issues when wet, wich in generaly muddy comditions of western front was quite a problem.

[@warpartyattheoutpost4987]

Most "humanitarian" efforts are PR and propaganda moves by the powerful to engender fealty from the masses.

[@stevethomas760]

Continued good work