Jon Snow real identity hints through the show

[@AjaxDGonzo]

Very ironic that Ned’s only dishonorable act was actually him being so honorable that he needed people to believe he had done a dishonorable thing. Also ironic that Jon is the most like Ned out of the Starks, despite being the one that really isn’t his.

[@johnhendrix28]

John didn’t have a mom like the others so he really looked up to Ned and respected him

[@AjaxDGonzo]

@@johnhendrix28 that’s a good point, I never considered that.

[@SportProgramming]

jon is still a stark by blood because of his mothet

[@AjaxDGonzo]

@@SportProgramming he’s a stark but he isn’t ned’s, even then by name he would be a Targaryen.

[@SportProgramming]

@@AjaxDGonzo Sister or brother there isn't that much genetic difference though between the children.

[@davidgalindez4856]

Some of the saddest things about this show, Ned will never know Jon learned the truth, Catelyn will never know that Ned never actually betrayed her trust, never faulted, he was always honorable.

[@charleswinters9567]

Ned is one of the most tragic characters put on screen. He lived his whole life with honor only to get executed as a ''traitor''.

[@cshepard09]

@@charleswinters9567 now imagine all the men through history who met the same exact fate.. there so many examples of Ned Stark in real life.

[@vrykshgaming9555]

May be Bran will help

[@Blue-xk8vq]

@@charleswinters9567 yes, so true!

[@balamx2802]

In the books, Catelyn is still "alive." Maybe she'll get to know the truth and it will ease her soul. I hope so.

[@von2300]

There goes Ned Stark: The best damn uncle in history.

[@mish2637]

I still can't over the fact that Ned kept the secret for like 20 years and Sansa couldn't keep it for 5 minutes. What a waste, he tried so hard to protect Jon and the writer's decided to do nothing with Jon's heritage, all Ned's hard work was for nothing. The best uncle in history deserved better.

[@roryporter810]

@@mish2637 I still think he should’ve been king

[@mish2637]

@@roryporter810 Yea same, I know Jon didn't want to be king but sometimes people have to sacrifice what they want for the greater good. Jon would've been a great king, I know he probably wouldn't have enjoyed it that much, but he would've helped so many people and he would've made Westeros a peaceful and great nation. And I know it's kind of nasty but he also could've ruled alongside Daenerys (if she hadn't gone completely mental) and probably brought back House Targaryen. He could've done so much, but D&D ruined everything with their shitty ideas and their delusional thinking that they had to make the ending unpredictable. I wish they could've been able to continue the show so that they didn't try to rush through season 8 and come up with a bunch of half-baked ideas. Let's hope GRRM finishes the books and has Jon become king in the end because I think he said that the show ending isn't how he was planning on ending it in the books.

[@zsofiszekely8474]

@@mish2637 Even without season 8 (and also 7 if you ask me) I believe Dany could never accept the fact that she's not the true heir to the iron throne, not after what she's been through the entire series. I mean take a look at the fact how she even became the "last Targaryen", she straight up got his brother murdered. Yes, I know he was full mad-king vibe, but Dany's not an innocent little girl from the start if you ask me. The last seasons were a hot mess, and her getting crazy was disrespectful compared to her character development, but you can't deny she was already mad, and you have a lot of questionable act from prev seasons to back that up (when she crucified the lords, took over cities in a very targaryen way ect.). She was very and I mean VERY power hungry right from the start, when she realized what potential being Khaleesi held. At first being Queen of the Seven Kingdoms was no more than a dream, that kept her going, but wasn't very likely to happen, even she knew that. But as the opportunity grew closer to her, when she crossed the narrow sea with her army for example, it became more real. And you can see, that as she got closer to it, she became more and more concerned about her plans, advisors, anyone with the slightest chance to take away her power and more sure of the fact that she would destroy ANYONE responsible for her family's fall (more like -> anyone able to threaten her fragile claim to the throne. Even Roberts "sons" or Cersei's bastards' -as from the start a whole lot of people already knew or at least thought that - held a greater potential, and love from people. No fucking peasant knew that Dany even existed, and with the mad king killing so many good men, well everyone kinda hated Targaryens). So when she got to the point that being The Queen (as Margaery said) was in arms' length away from her.. I don't see a way where she would even THINK about sharing it with anyone else. And if you think about it. No matter how Jon is the greatest man at the time, he is the rightful heir. He's a male, and Westeros and especially House Targaryen is very, VERY patriarchal. Like you can only become a female ruler if aaaall of the male relatives, no matter how distant they are are dead with no children, because there was a very similar case back in time, where it caused a great slaughter. Dany knew that, and little did she let Viserys go mad for his death to be justified by that and get removed from the way. Now opposed to house Targaryen, house Stark is greatly loved and respected, Ned Stark was the most honorable man known in his time, and if it got out that he was only protecting the true heir, and his sisters lawful son, he would be praised as much as he is among the fans irl. And Jon would be fucking hyped by the people, he's king in the north, former commander of the night's watch, a Stark, a male (again this is very important). Even if he would want to rule side by side with Dany, he could never get their people to love her as much as they do love him. It's a dead case from the start, and Dany wouldn't stand that, she would either go full mad and kill him in a way, or plot to remove him somehow. I don't mean to argue by the way, i just think that this wouldn't be an option for and ending. But even this would be more interesting than seeing Jon hide in the north and Dany die in such a rush.

[@mish2637]

@@zsofiszekely8474 Yea I suppose that's true, I honestly didn't care much if Dany became queen and ruling by Jon's side wasn't an option. I just wanted to see Jon's heritage actually mean something, I wanted to see him be king. Don't get me wrong, Dany was a cool character and a strong leader but somewhere along the way she developed a greediness for power and she lost her way, she probably wouldn't have been a good queen for westeros.

[@samlewis3555]

Regardless of how bad the show ended, the line ‘Robert’s Rebellion was built on a lie’ and how it was delivered still gives me chills.

[@ginargentum]

fr the actors were hard-carrying

[@jessicaseeker]

Same

[@ambitiousram]

It's an awesome line but still innacurate, Roberts rebellion was built on the mad King burning people and calling for eddard's head

[@Jamie-kk5fq]

@@ambitiousram No, that was why so many joined Roberts cause, but it *began* because Rhaegar 'kidnapped' Roberts bride-to-be

[@Jarvis466]

@@Jamie-kk5fq yeah. There was as much reason to rebel against the Mad King by itself. Lyanna being "kidnapped" was icing on the cake.

[@seargantmagor]

In the books, the dire wolves that every stark child gets is dark hair. The lone pup was an albino with white fur and red eyes. That pup was given to Jon. Targaryen's are known for their silver hair, and violet/purple eyes.

[@lukephillipsmedia]

God I’ve never thought of that, what a beautiful clue right from the start

[@ultrabluesea9182]

It's the same in the show, not only in the books

[@liambrooks8696]

I just thought "snow is white" :P

[@oKApplejack]

Well there’s that and in situations where a bastard has been legitimised and acknowledged, they are allowed to use Heraldry, just not from the noble parents house. So a common custom is to just invert the colours so he would have a white dire wolf on a grey background.

[@waelichbehaartbin2086]

But why is Aegon black haired tho

[@goldcherries]

I like how Stannis was the only one who still believed Ned was too honorable to have sired a bastard. They weren't even close, but he left it as just a "perhaps" and probably held his suspicion Ned was protecting someone. Even Ned's best friend completely accepted it.

[@pumaindia1928]

yea stannis op

[@ARandomGuy24]

Robert completely accepted it because he couldn't accept the probable truth. That she willingly went off with Rhaegar and fell in love with him.

[@KrayzieMofoGuy]

This was what made Stannis one of the best characters IMO, the objectivity. He knew something was up.

[@Kai_soze]

Stannis always had respect for Jon, he actually kind of mentored him during his time in the nights watch castle. Constantly watching him, sort of testing Jon to see if he had the makings of a great commander

[@Kai_soze]

@@ARandomGuy24 agreed. it was roberts way of coping with getting ghosted by the girl he loved who never loved him back.

[@cba2make1up]

I love how Ned remains the ultimate hero/protagonist, I loved him

[@BD-zs5zd]

Yeah I was so hurt watching the show the first time around and they killed him in the first damn season!! But I knew at this point the show was real as fuck and it didn't matter who you were nobody was safe. An then season 6 happened and it all went down hill after that. 6 was good, 7 okay, 8 was just no.

[@kerrymillar1267]

Best character ever

[@snerdterguson]

6 has 3 of the best episodes in the series. The Door (best reveal I've ever seen in a film or show with "Hold the door"), Battle of the Bastards (Greatest battle scene ever shot in the history of filmed entertainment) and Winds of Winter which had the beautifully shot reveal that Lyanna was Jons mother. There's also the Jon and Sansa reunion and Jon rising from the dead. The whole idea that season 6 was anything other than great never made sense to me.

[@JEON_CENA]

I always found him stupid to not stand up against Robert during the rebellion.

[@bbyrd130]

@@snerdterguson not to mention Cersei blowing up the Sept of Baelor with 95% of her enemies inside it

[@tammymartinez7488]

Also in the books there are more hints. One such hint early on was when Joffrey was sword fighting at winterfell and someone asks Jon why he’s not down there fighting too. He mentions that bastards aren’t allowed to spare with princes. It was true as Jon was legitimate prince and Joffrey was the bastard,

[@greatestofkhans]

this is so cool.

[@callmemako3510]

Jofrey is a bastard?!

[@14kjonathan83]

@@callmemako3510yes his father is Jaime and not Robert

[@italo7752]

correct me if i'm wrong, been a while since i've read the books. By the time this interaction takes place, how would jon know that he is a prince, and joffrey a bastard? can't recall if he actually ever finds it out about joffrey also joffrey would not be a bastard, product of incest-yes, but betweem two nobles, no commonfolk involved to warrant the title of bastard you guys might be reading way too much into simpler a worldbuilding info, if it really is the case tho, damn that would be sick

[@Chaguarr]

@@italo7752 A bastard isn't when a noble and commoner have a child, it's when a child is born to a woman with a man she has not married. The original comment did not mean to imply Jon knew he was a bastard. The implication is that GRR Martin wrote it as a form of irony, I can't recall which type it'd be specifically though.

[@396TurboJet]

You forgot the scene at Castle Black when Maester Aemon says, _"A Targaryen... alone in the world. It’s a terrible thing."_ And then in walks Jon Snow...

[@cecewendel5310]

which episode is that?

[@fortheloveofcats2462]

He was blind, he didn't know Jon could've been a Targaryen, he was just talking about Daenerys. It wasn't a spoiler or a hint.

[@ALYoungFuture13]

@@fortheloveofcats2462 en reality et was

[@devadathans5506]

@@fortheloveofcats2462 It was a tease/easter egg. It wasn't about if Aemon could see him walk in, it was for us viewers.

[@hangicsa81]

Also there is the part when Aemon is dying and calls Jon "Egg" as in Aegon his younger brother

[@Sawrattan]

Now it makes sense why Ned never wanted to harm Daenerys. He could not hate the Targaryens the way Robert did.

[@CallmeGuri]

Plus he was an honourable man. Killing children was something he would never do

[@localcryptid42]

That’s why he told Cersei about how he knew! He knew that if he went to Robert first, Robert would have killed all three lannister children, his honour wouldn’t let that happen

[@hello11197]

Well he probably didn’t want to set a precedent of murdering teenage Targaryens just because they’re Targaryens.

[@swarakotamraju9463]

And he was literally her brother-in-law, or something along those lines. Since she was Rhaegars sister.

[@masterdevoe2519]

In the end Robert withdrew his order.

[@ShadowShinobi2012]

I've never seen a show where they built up one character so much to basically be the "chosen one" and dropped all these subtle hints from the beginning to end, just to have it end in the most dumbest way. Smh. If they did this right, this could've been a masterpiece of a show.

[@nhamename]

All because dumb and dumber wanted to subvert the audience's expectations and plot predictions.

[@richardlloyd2589]

And wanted an early finish.

[@kim7990]

@@nhamename to be "not surprised so all the theorizers are wrong" Just so dumb fuck d&d... They ruined the best show of the decade :"

[@Allinonetvz]

It doesn’t matter it is still a masterpiece, the show was famous for its uniqueness, which beats conventional story telling.

[@maxcarren112]

Wouldn't be boring if it didn't subvert any expectation at all? Like yeah, Jon had special parents and a surprise claim to the throne. But he's still just a man. Why does every show have to be about uber powerful supermen with predetermined destinies? I think Jon got the best ending imo, along with Sansa and Arya. Sansa became a queen, though not in the way she expected. Arya became an adventurer, just like she always wanted. And Jon became free, free to do as he pleases and start a new life among the people who love him. Where he's no longer a bastard or a chosen one or a soldier, just a man. Pretty good end imo, would you rather he became emperor of the world and fixed every problem? That's not how it happens in real life, why should it happen that way in the story?

[@aceclover758]

Funny how Robert, Ned’s closest friend couldn’t conclude the fact that Ned cheating on his wife is just absurd and more in line with a fairy tail Meanwhile Stannis, who isn’t close to Ned at all, never believed Ned really cheated

[@williamsperounis7318]

That is because Robert was a serial cheater.

[@nicanornunez9787]

And Stannis a honorable man

[@flylikeabutterfly951]

It really showed Robert to be just a bad person in general 😮

[@texas9076]

That's because stanis was more intelligent and good at detecting bullshit.

[@aceclover758]

@@flylikeabutterfly951 Robert was not a bad person A bad person would’ve ruined the kingdoms. Robert was just not an ideal man. He was only an ideal warrior and general due to his strength and charisma. Robert other than that was a whore and a drunk

[@michaelyang3910]

I just realized how fucked up Jon Snow must’ve felt when Samwell started his explanation with “your mother was Lyanna Stark” while still thinking his father was Ned 🤢

[@Randinator]

“You know what you do? You go buy yourself a tape recorder and record yourself for a whole day. You might be surprised at some of your phrasing.”

[@gabrielvalerio3906]

"So i guess i am a Lannister now"

[@canadian__ninja]

@@gabrielvalerio3906 Incest was extraordinarily common amongst Targaryens, though I'm sure you knew that. Not just restricted to those two.

[@RebelEight-z7q]

On the contrary tho, he would've felt relieved to know that wasnt a bastard and that he had the greatest uncle in the world... He did end up screwing his aunt tho lmao

[@theWebWizrd]

@@RebelEight-z7q huh? What is even worse than being a bastard is being a bastard born of incest between a brother and a sister... That was the point of the comment, Jon wouldn't automatically assume Ned wasn't the father :p

[@Necreon021]

It was beautiful how the story reached back and made me feel for Eddard Stark again. That man ruined his marriage and his reputation of honor to secretly be the most honorable person the world has ever seen, known by nobody at all.

[@Blue-xk8vq]

That's not honorable, it's stupid.

[@samyukthasrikanth4214]

@@Blue-xk8vq If he did anything otherwise, then we wouldn't have this show at all because Robert would've put Jon six feet under

[@Blue-xk8vq]

@@samyukthasrikanth4214 Jon is not the show, everything would still continue with or without him.

[@samyukthasrikanth4214]

@@Blue-xk8vq While I agree that Jon isn't the only main character, his identity was a major plot point since the beginning of the show even towards the end. If Jon was killed off at first, then we wouldn't have had the whole Qorin Halfhand- Mance Rayder plot. We wouldn't have had the battle of the bastards. We wouldn't have had the scenes where Dany's rights to the throne were questioned by some. Of course, there are a lot more that I'm missing. You're entitled to your opinion (saying Ned's decision was stupid), but I'm just stating mine

[@Blue-xk8vq]

@@samyukthasrikanth4214 I respect your opinion but everyone is replaceable and things go on even after we or them are gone. He was definitely one of the best and biggest plots of the story, for sure.

[@BH13-f1q]

Only just realised, when Ned says 'the next time we see each other', he means when Robert is dead and he's no longer got to be in King's Landing as his hand. He wouldn't tell Jon until he was sure Robert would never know

[@FFTT]

Not only that; at that point in time, Jon would have sworn his vows as a brother of the Night’s Watch…thereby relinquishing (albeit without him knowing) all rights he may have had on the Iron Throne as the rightful Targaryen heir. Ned would have told Jon everything about his parentage, but there is nothing else Jon could have done at that point to change his situation.

[@mAcChaosCh]

@@FFTT I always thought that was kind of shitty. Sending him to the Night's Watch for a life of bondage on a lie.

[@hamburgereater]

Well, the real reason is that, in the Night's Watch, Robert wouldn't have been able to murder him, since The Watch is swore not to take part in the politics of The Realm.

[@JNN-]

@@mAcChaosCh no, that was also to protect Jon. Robert couldn't touch him in the Night's Watch.

[@jeremyroberts8822]

@@hamburgereatero you think Robert would’ve murdered him had he found out? Cus I’m not so sure. Ned was his best friend he trusted him more than anyone despite who Jon really was he was raised by the starks all his life. I think Robert would’ve been pissed about the lie but I don’t think he would’ve tried to kill Jon

[@Epsa_]

There is a very slight and unnoticeable hint with the scene where Maester Aemon says “a Targaryen alone in the world is a terrible thing” before Jon enters the room.

[@Panzerkriegen]

Aemon was also a Targaryen.

[@buddharocks492]

@@Panzerkriegen that's what the original poster is saying Aemon says this, and another Targaryen walks in lol

[@Panzerkriegen]

@@buddharocks492 yeah I'm aware but I'm pretty sure Aemon told Jon that no one knew who he actually was.

[@feonor26]

Aemon didn't know Jon was a Targaryen.

[@anatos1722]

Nope everyone knew that Aemon is Targeryen,he was not in danger becuse he joined Nights Watch so his blood dont mean anything anymore,in terms of politics or claim to the throne@@Panzerkriegen

[@victorsilva7793]

Think of this: ONLY Ned Stark knew Not even his wife

[@jayden_rico]

Howland Reed probably knew

[@muaazkhalid9475]

I think little finger knew as well. Not precisely perhaps but some of it. The look little finger gave to sansa was as if he knew something

[@gooffnow]

@@muaazkhalid9475 he didn’t know Jon Snow existed as the heir but he definitely questioned the fact that Rhaegar and Lyanna were more than just what the rest of the kingdoms thought they were. They loved each other

[@muaazkhalid9475]

@@gooffnow That's exactly what I meant to say :)

[@vikgeorge7562]

He was always considered to be a very honourable man, and the fact that he let everyone think that he wasn't faithful to his wife in order to protect him (Jon) as a promise to his sister, that is a whole different level of honour.

[@Mimi4826]

In the books, Ned never explicitly calls Jon his son. He just says he has his blood

[@MachinaX7]

He only said he had his blood, and that he raised him as a son.

[@charlesmarlowstanfield]

which is true.

[@scarrillo31]

So in the books, I went I went back and read the first one again, Ned specifically says Lyana told him "Robert must never know" mentions a secret he's never told anyone. I think GRRM was foreshadowing this, but we'll never know because the series will never be finished

[@gagegardner4254]

@@scarrillo31right and the fact that jon’s dead in the books

[@benwhyatt9913]

Jon is a warg so he’s probably living his second life in ghost.

[@M.A.13219]

Ned stark was really the legend of the whole story, he took the secret to his grave for Jon’s safety where it even took his wife believing a lie until her death.

[@zeffmalchazeen3429]

there are hints that Ned fathering a bastard was impossible. Questions rose to why is that woman special.

[@allfatherlol4178]

Best character to this day is my naive man Robb

[@Blue-xk8vq]

I like Ned but secrets and lies don't get you far and only hurt those that you love.

[@johnhendrix28]

@@Blue-xk8vq in this case though he literally couldn’t risk it, if they found out don’t you think Robert who just took over the kingdom over rhaegor taking his girl would kill John Rhaegors heir?

[@Blue-xk8vq]

@@johnhendrix28 Ned got himself and members of his family killed for the secret that Sansa blabbed out anyway. He should have shared it with proper ppl, and never went to court.

[@coyoteink]

There are subtle hints in the books as well. Arya is described to look like her late aunt, Jon is said to resemble Arya the most of all of Neds kids.

[@spntageous5249]

read the books a while ago but i remember also there being said that's why jon and arya were so close, because all the other Stark children had red/auburn or whatever hair like Catelyn and Jon and Arya had dark hair like Ned and Lyanna

[@maxxvii2037]

In the Books Jon is 99% the son of Ned. He resembles him the most out of all his children. The twist wouldn't make sense because Aegon already exists there

[@mr.cookie4498]

@@maxxvii2037 it would still make sense, he would Just have a different name

[@maria2k5]

but anyone could've thought that lyanna is jon's aunt (thats what all of us were led to believe at first) and its normal for children to look like their aunts/uncles, not a lot of us could've understood it first lol. but even before i read the GOT book i heard daenerys is jon's aunt and i was like maybe daenerys and eddard stark are related in someway, i had no freaking clue that daenerys is his aunt bc shes the sister of rhaegar, jon's real father.

[@sebiieex]

@@maxxvii2037 Jon is still the son of lyanna and rhaegar in the books. When they were pitching the show to him grrm interviewed the writers on their knowledge of the show and he asked them “Who is Jon’s mother” and they guessed correctly. He’ll just have a different name in the books.

[@GRR1MN1R]

great storyline never used

[@nitinkapoor1369]

Still the greatest show

[@GRR1MN1R]

@@nitinkapoor1369 if the season 8 and ending was excluded it was the best

[@colinlucas7662]

Lmao

[@vvthetalentlessduo6976]

Yup

[@devenfeldstein9796]

Yes it was 💗 it was used the whole way through bc it’s the heart of the story lol

[@vis_18]

Thinking about the fact that Catlyn died without knowing that the boy she hates so much was her sister in law’s kid, her nephew, always makes me miserable... D:

[@aurone5685]

@Chris McCoy Well can you imagine having a constant reminder of the "affair" walking around your home? Cat was flawed, which she admits, but she was a good person

[@CaesarCassius]

@@aurone5685 Catlyn final act was to murder that innocent girl, Catlyn a beyatch

[@wiezyczkowata]

@@CaesarCassius she saw her son die and knew she won't get out of it alive, what would you do?

[@aFlackk]

@@CaesarCassius she said on her honor as a stark that she would kill the girl if walder didn't let robb go, which he didn't so she killed her

[@JebDMan]

In the books it could be that Jon kills Lady Stoneheart, by which time the truth of his lineage may be out.

[@Icy-Bridges]

Another hint could be the dragons liking him.

[@redbandita020]

That's why I always thought that Tyrion wasn't Tywin's son, but Aerys's child with Tywin's wife Joanna. She, like Jon's and Danaerys's mothers, died in childbirth. The dragons liked Tyrion when he released them from the dungeon (he always loved dragons), and Dany's vision in the magic temple in the books mentions Rhaegar, saying, "The dragon must have three heads." Yeah, I was this deep into the fan theories and always #TeamTyrion

[@kahiina3821]

@@redbandita020 what does the dragon having three heads mean

[@lokishinigami]

@@kahiina3821 The Targaryen House crest depicts a dragon with 3 heads, and in the family there were 3 "heads" of the house that sat with equal power, even if only one was the public figurehead

[@Kesebrodt]

@@redbandita020 another explanation as to why Tywin hates him so much?

[@robotube7361]

​@@kahiina3821 The 3 headed Dragon is the symbol of the House of Targaryen: 1. It is on their sigil. 3 headed red dragon on a black background 2. Aegon and his 2 sisters conquered the 7 Kingdoms. They came with 3 Dragons 3. The Mad King had 3 dragon Children: Rheagar, Viserys and Daenerys 4. Tyrion, Jon and Dany are probably gonna rule together in the books or realize they are all Targaryens 5. Danny had 3 eggs >>> Dragons 6. Bloodraven being Targaryen and being the 3 eyed crow. Im sure Im missing some other things probably something about the Dance of the Dragons. The number 3 has always been somehow connected with the Targaryens and its suggested that when there are 3 Targaryens- they are strong. The 3 in the books always has some meaning about their destiny and manifests itself many times. Maester Aemon saying there is nothing worse than A Targaryen alone in the world also suggests that when Targaryens are alone or feel alone without having other Targaryens beside them they are miserable and do horrible things. Whenever a Targaryen strays away from the family- they always meet their demise. Whenever they work together- they meet great results. Remember, Vysenia died alone in Dorne.

[@thebigjimmyd]

Never has such an iconic moment meant so little to the overall plot of a show. Thanks for building this up for 8 years only for it to mean absolutely nothing!

[@rosesweetcharlotte]

I disagree. I think it's a big reason why Jon goes with Dany to KL. And I think it contributes to his resolve to kill her. But also, I think how little it matters is sort of the point. In truth, it doesn't matter. All the people it really matters to are dead.

[@Error-fv6it]

But Jon restored the Starks and avenged the red wedding

[@napkin60]

@@rosesweetcharlotte Jon's duty was always to the realm, and he fulfilled that by fighting the night king and fighting Cersei and killing Dany. He would've done all that regardless if he knew he was Aegon. His whole arc with finding out he was Aegon was to ignore the fact that he's Aegon so he can go back to what he was already doing as commander of the night's watch. Just feels a bit wasted in the end.

[@nathanwilson3763]

⁠@@rosesweetcharlotteI am sorry but this is incorrect. The scene you are referring to is written by the show runners snd not George. The last seasons are NOT indicative of the character. His “resolve” to kill was rushed and pathetic even their love was established 3 scenes after meeting. And the show runners are to blame for his storyline not going anywhere… please do not comment with surface level knowledge and try to convince people that this is true.

[@ajrush1533]

​@@rosesweetcharlotteHahaha

[@calvin5541]

That part where Stannis said “that wasn’t Ned starks flavor” was a good subtle drop

[@KellseyAkatsuki]

elaborate?

[@carlogiurizzato2441]

that wasn't ned stark way NOT flavor

[@KellseyAkatsuki]

@@carlogiurizzato2441 your explanation just warrants more questions.

[@carlogiurizzato2441]

@@KellseyAkatsuki stannis says quote "that wasn't ned stark way" means it wasn't ned stark style going to brothels having sex with prostitute, that was robert baratheon way, stannis is awere of this, @Sentinel creed comment reports the quote wrong literally not in meaning, flavor word is not used in the quote, better now=?

[@KellseyAkatsuki]

@@carlogiurizzato2441 much. I was heavily confused. figured thats what they meant, the original commenter. but still needed to make sure

[@mrdictator7030]

everyone talking about Jon's story line being wasted and irrelevant but forgetting that Jamie had 8 seasons of character development erased

[@Jotakumon]

And then there is Littlefinger, absolute waster of a character arc.

[@zehraerciyas6899]

YES!!! I WILL NEVER forgive dumb and dumber for doing that to Jamie and Brienne as well

[@emilycanfield2634]

@@Jotakumon What character arc for Littlefinger? He was manipulative up until the very end lmao. The only thing that stayed true was that he loved Cat and Sansa.

[@RsChrisG]

Jamies arc was more realistic tho. He was like an addict who tried hard to get off the substance but in the end he couldnt quit what he loved and died for it.

[@irokosalei5133]

You just have poor character comprehension. Please never try to write anything

[@samanthastephens7325]

Let’s not forget his talk with Aemon Targaryen at the beginning of the show and when Jon first got Ghost. Each stark’s dire wolf represents a part of like their soul in a way, and Ghost is a white dire wolf with red eyes, hinting at Jon’s Targaryen lineage.

[@Sniperkitten971]

🤯

[@ChrisM-qo1jc]

Albinos just tend to have red eyes but yes that could be true as well

[@nerd-mask723]

I just now realized ... Arthur Dayne and the other kingsguards were not only at the Tower of joy, to fulfill their dead princes order, but to protect Jon cause he was the next heir.😮

[@feonor26]

Ofc they were fulfilling Rhaegar's orders. It was Rhaegar who ordered them to stay behind to watch over Lyanna and her newborn.

[@thecritic3959]

Sucks they had to fight each other, I’m sure a mature conversation between these guys would’ve been just fine, but unfortunately circumstances occurred

[@davidjames4915]

Dayne's actions at the ToJ don't actually make a lot of sense. From Ned's PoV when he arrives, Dayne trying to prevent Ned from getting to the "kidnapped" Lyanna would seem to make sense, but Dayne would know that Lyanna wasn't kidnapped. Why would Dayne want to play into the role that Ned wrongly thinks he's playing? Consider also that when Ned arrives, it's around the time that Lyanna is giving birth, so Dayne has no way to know that she is going to die in labour. The default assumption he has to go on is that she is going to survive like most mothers do. So when Ned arrives, what's his plan exactly? He's going to, what, kill Ned and then do what afterwards? Tell Lyanna that her brother Ned showed up and that he killed him? How well is that going to go down with her? Is he then going to try to take Aegon/Jon from Lyanna? But that doesn't work since the only person who can really vouch for the child's identity is Lyanna herself, so he'd need her too. So now actually kidnap her, for real this time? Or is he planning to not tell Lyanna that Ned ever came and persuade her to go off to Essos one assumes with Dany and Viserys? But even this plan is not terribly good over the longer term once Lyanna learns that Ned died not in battle at the Trident but after he set out to the Tower... and she'd figure out the culprit as she would have at least heard the fighting outside around the time she gave birth. Whichever way you look at, fighting Ned doesn't make any sense. Dayne's best move would have been tell Ned then and there that his sister had married Rhaegar and that she was pregnant with his child and was giving birth as they spoke. Ned may or may not have believed the claim of marriage, but the claim of her being pregnant would be believable. Ned would have insisted on going up to see her, to which Dayne should agree. After that, between the lot of them, they would have had to figure out what to do next.

[@goosetav4026]

@@davidjames4915 people forget that lyanna and rhaegar never got married in the books, in the books jon hasnt even been reborn after the mutiny at castle black. so if grrm were to write in that jon was a targaryen he would probably make it closer to what you wrote, that is if grrm thinks jon should be a targaryen.

[@Yoctopory]

If the writers have a template like that, how can they mess it up that badly in the end? I've read about a dozen endings written by fans, each one of them a 1000 times better than what we got.

[@ragnarlothbrok6195]

It's not that simple 😂 the writer messed up and he admitted it .. but the fans telling the story are based on the writers story only😂

[@O.G.H.]

@@ragnarlothbrok6195 the writers never admitted anything, the two scumbags called D&D are to proud to admit their miserable writing

[@nightmare5479]

Well as they mentioned they wanted to "subvert" expectations

[@jessie4351]

Grrm gonna fix it in TWOW and ADOS, if you want to fix your perception of the story ya gotta read the books

[@camocamo6177]

Simple. They never waited for the last book to be written. So they winged it for the dollars and shit on all the fans.

[@tanuskabanerjee1412]

This plot was the fountain of everything. Started Robert's rebellion, ended a dynasty, gave lanniesters the ultimate power which later gave them the throne, literally everything was caused because of this, this sole point. It was the mystery that was always there since the beginning, even GRRM asked dnd who Jon's mother was in the very first meeting. It was made this way to put Jon to be the chosen one, a prince who was raised bastard, a king who never wanted the throne was it not? And they simply just drowned everything in gutter because they believed they weren't supposed to give us what we wanted. What a dumb way to write a ending of the biggest television series of this decade. Ugh I just hope George finishes the books soon. -_-

[@sahararoselohani4467]

Me too.

[@jdanielcoronel2214]

You do understand that the problem is that Jon wasn't king, the problem is how they got to the end. Jon's end was perfect, but its development sucked.

[@cloudstone123]

Well, look at it this way. You already know how the books are going to end. But at least it will come along more slowly.

[@Kickingcrush]

He literally told them bran becomes kings

[@jdanielcoronel2214]

@@Kickingcrush yep, that ain't the issue tho, the issue is how it was developed

[@Sh1ftane]

Sam: "Your mother was Lyanna Stark..." Jon: "Oh no I'm inbred!" Sam: "...and your real father was Rhaegar Targaryen." Jon: "Oh no, I'm even more inbred!"

[@wojciechwerner8787]

Good joke. I may be wrong but from what I understand one fresh blood parent negate all previous generations inbreeding.

[@criosovereign]

“Oh no, I’m inbreeding!”

[@nickanick7431]

Ned : The next time we see each other we'll talk about your mother. [Everybody sensed that there will be no next time.]

[@fifaorpro8890]

Even Ned Stark knew it. When your being played by Sean bean you know your character dies sooner rather then later lol.

[@sishirpokharel2023]

@Nick A Nick “Next time” they saw eachother was in the crypt of winterfell. Jon was in front of Ned’s tomb when he knew the truth about his mother.

[@Sam-yx9ry]

@@sishirpokharel2023 wow! Never picked up on that before, that’s incredible. I wonder if that was planned or just a happy coincidence...

[@thecrimsondragon9744]

That wasn't in the books.

[@holyforce7065]

no, i feel like they will meet again on a big event like a war againts white walker, too bad he die too soon.

[@EnricoPallazo]

The cut from the baby to Jon snows face wasn’t a hint...that WAS the reveal...?

[@illballtilidie]

True. But at that point the audience didn’t know Lyanna and rhaegar were in love and married...only that rhaegar raped her. So the reveal is that he is actually the bastard son of a Targaryen. It wasn’t until samwell and brand got together that we knew for sure he was the rightful heir

[@ft.JordiMcKenna]

i went back to that shot and thouhgt you ment the actual scar on his face but then fright after, the next sean WAS JOHN AND I WAS LIKE OH SHIT

[@EnricoPallazo]

@@illballtilidie ya good call

[@Coby23]

@@illballtilidie Jon isn’t a bastard at all Rhaegar and lyanna was secretly married before having him

[@jelle370]

@@Coby23 no shit sherlock

[@JoshTehYoda]

I recently started rewatching this show and the hints are so clear now. Amazing how they built it up, it’s a shame things got rushed the final 2 seasons.

[@Kobe24brady12]

Season 7 was good

[@yorda5287]

​@@Kobe24brady12 Nah, the show starts becoming crap from season 5, from the moment they separate from the books. Dialogs become inconsistent and poor, dick jokes instead of wit, sensationalism for the sake of it, and the show lost some of its most complex and charismatic characters, such as Tywin. Seasons 1-4 are good, then it's the downfall.

[@Kobe24brady12]

@@yorda5287 Tywin was so great. Charles Dance ruled as Tywin

[@yorda5287]

@@Kobe24brady12 Agree, he was a fantastic cast for the role, and the role was truly complex and interesting

[@rafa2657]

@@yorda5287 You are complety right.

[@kiloperson5680]

The most important hint was Maestor Aemon saying "A Targaryen alone in the world is a terrible thing" and the camera shifting the focus to Jon entering the same room.

[@feonor26]

Even so, Maester Aemon didn't know a thing about Jon's real identity.

[@Goves10]

@@feonor26 It's called foreshadowing

[@Juxsin]

The moment you realize Ned Stark and Jamie Lannister had more in common with each other was surreal. Both threw their honor away for no recognition, only to do the right thing.

[@slcRN1971]

It has always bothered me that almost everyone in Westeros treated Jamie Lannister ‘The Kingslayer’ like a pariah, because he had eliminated an absolutely deranged psychopathic King - - who had caused the gruesome deaths of even honorable citizens. Yes, he had other faults (especially by todays standards) yet he did those citizens a huge favor, by eliminating ‘The Mad King’.

[@freddyes2242]

Yeah it doesn’t really make much sense that Jaime gets that type of treatment and disrespect when he obviously did the kingdom a favor whether intentionally or was unintentional.

[@myshepspud1]

What confuses me most. We always hear about the mad king. So was Ned Starks sister delusional? They always make her out so great. But how can you be if you love someone who sets fire to people for kicks.

[@Shokatuqt]

@@myshepspud1 you got the targaryens wrong, raegar was not the mad king

[@Traumvita]

@@myshepspud1she was in love the prince not the king

[@zainabadeoje6174]

When I got to know Jon was Lyanna's son, my first thought was "No wonder he's so beautiful" , cos in almost every scene she was mentioned, Lyanna was always described with her beauty .

[@teestaasaha7156]

In the books, Arya is said to resemble Lyanna since they shared a boyish beauty of sorts. Jon and Arya both looked like siblings more than any other pair since most of them carried Tully features. That's another hint that Lyanna was Jon's mother.

[@ms.johnson2014]

Rhagaer was the beauty not Lynna, there are parts of the book where she was described as being horse faced as well.

[@nyahcat1379]

​@@ms.johnson2014 The books always brought up how beautiful Lyanna was though? Maybe she had a long face and boyish charm but she's always described as a wild beauty. I remember people even claimed Margaery Tyrell looked like her although Ned didn't think so.

[@zeffmalchazeen3429]

@@teestaasaha7156 Arya also thought she was a bastard as well

[@joe-cg2hv]

i mean she did got a married man swerving

[@alperenkulci3144]

it's always ''you are my blood'' and never ''you are my son''

[@erickruckenberg8716]

I always thought the biggest reveal for Jon Snow being a Targaryen would somehow be him being burned by dragonfire and surviving

[@nluther22]

Same

[@MonsterTeegs]

He can get burned, remember he burned his hand in season one and is referenced many times through the first book. Idk why though

[@mr.cookie4498]

most Targaryens only have high Heat resistence

[@billieinka]

though it would be cool, targaryens aren’t resistant to fire, they just have a much higher threshold this becomes a bit of a problem since we see dany engulfed with fire in the show but in the books it burns all her hair and clothes off, and is a one time thing (with some sort of magical assistance)

[@damagon123]

He was only half Targaryan, he'd still get second degree burns.

[@arshadjaffry4830]

Sam : you are aegon Targaryen Jon: yu mah queen

[@line-kq2ph]

LMFAO

[@CaesarCassius]

1. Ah dawnt want it! 2. Steve McQueen!

[@Gabrielrmsq]

Kkkkkkkkk

[@jackmull4770]

reminder that as soon as dany legitimized gendry, he had as much right to the throne as both of the targaryens. his father held it for twenty years and that's long enough to have a legitimate claim for a son

[@Lexx4k]

Not really, because for the legitimization of Gendry to be genuine, it must be based on the premise that Daenerys is a Queen and therefore Robert was nothing but a usurper. So zero claim for Gendry...

[@jackmull4770]

Lexx i mean, a claim is a claim as long as it has a possibility to gain support. Dany's ancestors were usurpers, so by the logic of usurpation=no claim then no one would have a claim. As soon as Gendry was legitimized as a Baratheon, even though it was by Dany, his name is enough to rally people if he wanted to (which he doesn't, but still). basically it doesn't from whom the legitimization came, all that matters is the name given

[@jackmull4770]

Lexx but i see what you're saying, which would be an argument against his claim, if he ever wanted to make a claim. but of course, since the council of lords and ladies decreed that monarchs would be henceforth elected, his claim would be weak

[@claspe1049]

But by swearing fealty to Daenerys he rejects his claim...

[@jackmull4770]

Cla Spe well dany's dead, so his "fealty" to her dies with her

[@vanman12]

Ned Stark ruined his honorable reputation by having a bastard that he pretended was his the whole time to keep his promise to his sister. He put Jon’s life ahead of his honor and that has to earn him the title of the “realest ever”.

[@sike-mf1820]

Being the “realest ever” lasted only one season tho 😂😂😂 jk he really was

[@simonloos2092]

he’s valid 🤝

[@Sevencoins7]

But he was the deadest ever

[@mehmetfatihyilmaz1641]

also when aemon targaryen asks jon what his father would do if he had to chose between his beloved ones and his honor what he would do jon told him that he would do whatever was right so probably chose honor while eddard stark in fact had exactly this very decision to make and he chose for the son of his sister and betrayed everybody... tho he couldnt tell robert that his rebellion was a mistake and based on a lie after he killed thousands of people and ended a dynasty and crowned himself king... so yeah he gotta do it...

[@corpmobb4134]

@@Sevencoins7 Yet he's the realest ever you twat

[@sterlingarcher74]

I like the idea that Stannis suspected Jon wasn’t actually Ned’s son- being close enough to Ned to know he didn’t cheat, but not being as close to him as Robert was just to take him on his word.

[@athenastewart9167]

But Robert was a prolific cheater. It would be incomprehensible to him to stay faithful to a wife. This was a case of Ned being judged by what *Robert* would do, not by Ned's actual character. It made Robert feel better about himself at the thought that Ned would cheat, that Ned's honesty and honor had this flaw. In Robert's eyes, that made them "even".

[@mossy642]

What a great series! Pity it only ran for 7 seasons...

[@Thisrandomaccount-yr1yf]

Yea we don’t talk about season 8 around here

[@markekar6021]

Even season 7 is a bit of a blur... If you know what I mean

[@lennbase2276]

6.

[@sujal1583]

@@Thisrandomaccount-yr1yf Season 8 was so bad that people forget about season 7😂😂

[@hogndog2339]

It only ran for 4 seasons tho?

[@136_elgaarsiaikramramdani5]

Sam : "you are the true king" Jon : "Shizz muh Quinn"

[@ricardogusto1289]

"I don't want it!"

[@3baxcb]

But he would never be the right king. Half of Westeros would rally around him and about the same number would seek to usurp him by any means. It could mean The Wheel just being stopped and started up again with a new set of spokes on The Wheel.

[@stevena3333]

Lmao. Took me a min to get that 😂

[@JoshSweetvale]

Incest was _literally Targaryen tradition._ Ruling as consorts and having kids was a perfectly sensible solution.

[@kevinhillary4057]

1:48 despite burning his daughter I did really love Stannis’ character. He was a smart dude, and even here he doubts the truth behind Neds story. Never caught that before

[@Vakaria-plays]

i was cheering on him through several seasons, i like Dany of course but since she had been falsely led to believe that the people of westeros was just waiting for the Dragon banner to rise again, plus her constant setbacks had me thinking that she would settle for ruling the south after freeing the slaves. But when he burned his daughter and his army was sabotaged it was clear that his time was done and that he had been broken.

[@kevinhillary4057]

@@Vakaria-plays Yeah it really bummed me out to see them at the end all tired, underfed and confused as Ramsay’s people just ran up on them. Also with the battle of Blackwater, I only wanted him to lose cause I liked Tyrion lol but seeing Stannis take the throne and get rid of Joffrey would’ve been amazing

[@Kai_soze]

Idk man, he just seemed grumpy and desperate for power honestly. Although the way he died was legit. Didn't beg nothing just said "well, get on with it."

[@sashes375]

i interpret that scene as him doubting that Jon's mother was a lowborn commoner, rather than some highborn lady

[@SinnMaschine]

He doesn’t burn his daughter in the books, that should tell you everything.

[@petimanus]

I will always admire Ned Starks character...He was out of the story so early yet his promise made so much difference.

[@vladimir8365]

What an amazing storyline. Build up a character so well throughout 8 seasons to just make it completely irrelevant. Amazing misdirection.

[@3baxcb]

Well that revelation in fact impacted at lot. Once a great threat was destroyed, friction started to develop in whatever relationship Daenerys and Jon had up till then. Daenerys didn't want to accept the truth or have Jon ever tell anyone else about his true heritage as it would potentially undermine her claim to the Iron Throne.

[@harendrasinghbisht8117]

1:51 The only man who understood Ned Stark completely

[@Sawrattan]

I love every scene with Stannis and Celyce, amid all the violence and passion in the show it's refreshing to see a couple who just mildly don't get on. 😂

[@BigMisterApple]

Sometimes, when I remember Game of Thrones, I get sad about the wasted potential. D&D should not be allowed to work on anything involving books anymore.

[@mrdictator7030]

they shouldn't work on anything tv related. I don't understand how anyone can hire them after season 8.

[@mouseshadow5828]

They could do a series just on Bran. "King Brandon, The All-Seeing" I'd watch it

[@MikeC555]

Both are doing a series based on Three-body Problem, a damn good set of novels. It's a Netflix series so hopefully Netflix can prevent the disaster.

[@Robbie_Tega]

@@mrdictator7030 crazy isnt it, literally any person whos seen the show could have written a better ending easily for 1/100th of the pay. pathetic

[@doble-B]

@@MikeC555 Netflix will fuck it up even more

[@roachdoggjr7393]

Stannis' moment in this felt a lot like book Stannis. He's more of a Ned Lite in the books in a good way. Probably why he thought there was a possibility that there was another side to that story. A passing thought he had when someone brought his attention to Jon Snow makes him smarter than a lot of other characters

[@malanmoody8313]

Ned's "Nor will I" makes so much more sense now. Upon first watching the show it sounds like regret/shame, but after finishing it he said that to protect Jon's life. I didn't like Stannis, but his understanding of Ned is spot on.

[@aphoticjellyfish]

I thought it meant he didn’t want to describe her for Robert to lust over or say gross things about her since it was his sister they were talking about

[@feonor26]

@@aphoticjellyfish He didn't want to approach the subject at all. The more it is talked about, the greater is the risk of letting some information slip and Robert finding out the truth who Jon Snow's parents really was . Nothing, absolutely nothing could have saved Jon and possibly Ned Stark from Robert's wrath had he found out and Ned knew this. That's why he didn't even dare tell his wife.

[@Kai_soze]

Jon Snow was such a great character at the beginning, whose arc was slowly and carefully built up over the course of the show. All of that hard work and investment in his character culminated into him spending the last season saying nothing but "She's my queen" and ending up back at the place he started, a nobody in the nights watch (or i guess he went to live with the wildings which makes sense, but they just did it in the most lazy possible). Oh and he didn't even kill the night king...

[@lolawhiteeagle8933]

I was beyond devastated

[@sirlibanski]

i mean he kind of wanted to be with the free folks, he always admired how they lived and he countlessly said he didn´t want to rule

[@dannyms5159]

Jon was the classic "sacrificial hero" of the story. Rhaegar believed that someone from his line would be tPtwP so his main reason for procreating was to fulfill the prophecy and Targeryen duty to the realm. Jon was conceived to be the or one of the heroes to save mankind, even at the expense of his life or happiness. And the consequences of Rhaegar's actions re Lyanna pushed his only remaining son to live as a motherless bastard, privileged more than most but still not the life that would have been his by birthright: royalty and a successor to the throne. Jon's life was always one of sacrifice. Yes, he had ambitions of his own but he couldn't help but be - whether by nature or nurture - a man of duty. In the end, as he had always done, Jon sacrificed his life/happiness to do what was right by the realm. In the end he did become the Prince that saved the realm. I am not sure that that is how Rhaegar envisioned it but Jon fulfill his fate. Jon was meant to save the realm, not to rule it. In the end, the ending Bran/The Three-Eyed Raven/Bryden Rivers crafted for him was the best he could have done for him under the circumstances. Perhaps still unfair but if anyone else had been "King" at that point, Jon would have died. Not because of what he did to Daenerys (that would have only been the pretext) but because he was the true Targaryen heir, a threat, a potential dragon rider. Though there was little of Bran Stark left in King Brandon Stark, he still managed to do right by his older brother.

[@thmaginnis1]

Way to go D & D. You take the biggest and most anticipated mystery in the show (maybe tv history) and made it COMPLETELY irrelevant to the ultimate resolution of the story. Tell me. How did the revelation of him being the true song of fire and ice impact anything in the end. Maybe it added to Danny’s paranoia. Ooh. An extra person to ride a dragon. Whoopee! That’s it. Jon could have been anyone’s son and his part would have been the same.

[@Shortskeez]

Yeah all that hype and build up into learning who jon really was became so completely irrelevant. Hard to even fathom how they even possibly thought their ending was a good one.

[@maxcarren112]

I think that was the point my man, it didn't really matter who his daddy and mommy were. They're dead. He's just a flesh and blood man, like you and me. Yet he had an amazing story. He saved the world at the end by killing the woman he loved. And he was "punished" for it. Good end.

[@vvthetalentlessduo6976]

Facts

[@thmaginnis1]

@@maxcarren112 ???? If that was the point they wanted to make (that it didn’t matter who his parents were), why on wouldn’t they have made his parents a couple of nobodies instead of the two people that would have the biggest impact possible. Why go through all the trouble of laying hints for years? Why name the entire series “the song of fire and ice” if the fact that he was “the song of fire and ice” had no importance?

[@maxcarren112]

@@thmaginnis1 Because in real life it doesn't matter who your dead mom and dad are when it comes to running a country or fighting a war. I think that's the point, Jon Snow started as a nobody and became a somebody on his own merit by being a badass leader, even though it turned out he was "technically" the king by right all along. It's all a trick, we're all equal really and what matters are our deeds, not our lineage. He still had more of an impact on the story than almost anybody, and essentially saved the world at the end by "sacrificing" himself. That's way more interesting than "My mommy and daddy were special, so I'm special too".

[@ralookysim]

Robert: "I will kill every Targaryen" NED: " you can't get your hands on this one"

[@jackmull4770]

so are we gonna ignore when sam and gilly (and little sam) were at the citadel and sam was dog tired and gilly was reading out of some random book about a secret wedding between a "Rayger Targairean" and someone else???? that was kinda significant but i guess not

[@GustaviEb]

Yeah when she asked sam what "annulment" meant and sam told her it meant to cancel a marriage then she was gonna mention "reggar" and then he just shut her off completely 😂 im sure a lot of people missed that part

[@cshepard09]

"perhaps, but that wasn't Ned Starks way" -Stanis was probably the only one that i had never noticed after 3 times watching the show. actually one of the most direct hints, and just a witty comment by stanis

[@silvansurf]

Yeah that and tha fakt John's direwolf has the white Targaryen Hair

[@kohgoomah0105]

“You can’t get your hands on this one, can ya?” Gods, the writing was strong back then

[@loppy6481]

The fact Stannis was the only one to doubt Jons parentage shows how great he is.

[@Patton243]

Pretty clear Little Finger knew too just by his facial expression in the crypts.

[@RM-wf4mw]

He may have known or perhaps had his own suspicion, he's a clever man. but I doubt he knew Jon and Lyanna married.

[@No-ms3hj]

@@RM-wf4mw *rhaegar

[@546-apoorvaranjan7]

Actually in the books as I have heard , I still haven't reached there , that it was Baelish who started the rumour that rhaegar kidnapped lyanna , hence even mad king Didn't know where his son was

[@coldheart6769]

He knew rhat raehgar and lyanna loved ewch other and he didnt rape her but he didnt know that jon was their son he wanted to believe that ned was dishonest and dishonorable that he would cheat on caitlyn just because he loves the her

[@FrozenShadow007]

That is debatable

[@vrs69.420]

Yknow, the books aren't titled "a son(g) of ice and fire" for nothing...

[@JKerr97]

And it meant nothing at all

[@zt2019]

Damn, Stannis questioning a story everyone else took as the truth. “Perhaps, that wasn’t Ned Starks way” Stannis was always ahead of the curve yet he was too consumed by the throne to see his own downfall.

[@ku5hdad]

2:44 while watching this scene in the show, when the camera changes to jon snow and the music gets heavy suddenly it all clicked and soon came the goosebumps. its such a shame they never really used this storyline, it had so much potential.

[@Telechontar09]

I love that Stannis, able to recognise a man who esteems honour as much or more than he does, was probably incapable of being an adulterer.

[@broadstork]

0:30 is a scene that I can rewatch a thousand times. The sincerity and sadness on his face is something else

[@joeyken81]

and he only felt confident saying that, knowing Jon was taking The Black

[@MrDinokilla]

Glad you put the baby opening it’s eyes cutting to Jon snow. That hint went right past my head

[@josephcuccia9354]

And all this culminated in was Jon telling Dany so we could see her inner diva.

[@Yogihasswagg]

That transition from the baby’s eyes to John’s was so cold...

[@StopPanakinAnakin]

The scene between Ned and Robert is one of my favorite scenes in the whole shows. Just 2 real dudes, friends that can have a real conversation saying how they really feel. They were such good characters.

[@YashKMusic]

All this build up to have him defenselessly shouting at a dragon while his sister jumps out of nowhere and saves the day. Nice work, season 8!

[@annieareyouokay1411]

I always loveed the scenes with the Ned and The Kingsguard at the ToJ. Even as their enemy he demands to know why they didnt do their duty to their Prince. Honorable through and through.

[@Nonophobe]

This show was so good, I’ll never forget about it. The energy and hype that surrounded it was way too good.

[@tirumala_ch]

Man that transition from a kid to adult face was a goosebumps scene

[@beatty02]

You can say that everything is ruined at the end, but this is still one of the greatest plot twists of all time

[@dangerfindertreasureseeker8905]

Ned kept to his word , the next time he sees Jon he will tell him all about his mother. It might have been a statue but it’s still Ned and Jon did learn , to his sorrow , all about his mother.

[@hoganfrazier8670]

Why not include the conversation between Jon and Benjen? Jon begs him to let him join the Night's Watch and Benjen says that he doesn't know what he would be giving up... he knew the truth.

[@HerrderHoden]

or you know it could be that he tried telling him that living in winterfell, even as a bastard, is a thousand times more comfortable than living your life as a crow at castle black. Because he was literally saying stuff like "nobody told me what its like here" the first episode he is in the watch (tyrion and benjin told him)

[@JadKaradin]

I think he would have been more willing to let him join if he knew After all his life shouldn't be in danger anymore as a member of the knights watch if Robert would ever find out He didn't bother to kill Aemon also And Ned thought the same and was finally down to tell Jon the truth after his oath So I don't think benjen knew

[@FrozenShadow007]

It is genuinely such a shame that D&D took this amazing storyline and shattered it to pieces. I could’ve genuinely waited as long as it would take for GRRM to finish the novels and have him be more involved in the TV series.

[@lolawhiteeagle8933]

Seems he won't be finishing. He's already 76 years old

[@Pedalhead511]

I think Ned was actually going to tell him once he joined the watch. Knowing him he definitely wanted to tell Jon, but wanted to make sure that he wouldn't be tempted to make a claim to the throne

[@MorphingMandrel]

It wasn't the temptation, it was that once he took the black he renounced all claims and titles. So just like Aemon, there'd be no cause for Robert to go after him as he'd pose no more threat as a Targaryen

[@damienmussard1821]

Season 1 first episode if I remember correctly there is a scene where Benjen Stark arrives at Winterfell and Jon Snow is outside, playing with his sword. As Benjen ask him why he isn't at the feast, he reply with something like "Lady Stark didn't want to insult the royal family with a bastard at their table." Now that we all know the true nature of Cersei's children, think about that answer, who is the real royal family, and who are the bastards ? That was a huge hint about Jon Snow real identity.

[@RM-wf4mw]

Interesting, but disagree. You could find a hint like that everywhere if you want to find one.

[@richardlloyd2589]

If that was, verbatim, a line from the books, then that GRRM at his epic best. If it’s D&D’s script writing you’re a genius for picking up on it.

[@damienmussard1821]

@@richardlloyd2589 Well honestly I got this from "La garde de nuit", a french famdom forum, there was an article they made about all the subtle and not subtle hint they could find in all of the books about Jon Snow real identity, and if I remember correctly, that reply Jon Snow give to Benjen Stark is directly from the book. The article is in French, but they quoted the part of the book with the hint in english.

[@31redorange08]

No, it was just a hint about Cersei's children.

[@theUnsungWarriorr]

I just wanted to see Jon the king of the 7 Kingdoms, the rightful deserved king.

[@ClassicalByMetal]

I think the last two hints were the biggest ones, I could work it out from them, especially the last one.

[@CardologyYT]

Missed the scene in season 5 where Maester Aemon is talking to Sam in the library at the wall and says “it’s a horrible thing for a Targaryen to be all alone” and then the camera cuts to Jon Snow in the doorway.

[@jbrown7666]

that stannis line was so good didnt realize

[@rjhick1]

I like how Sam was the one who told Jon about his identity instead of Jon finding out on his own. They were true bros

[@NebulosDragon]

I really like how the first thing jon talks about after learning the truth isnt thathes not a bastard or that catelyn didn't have to hate him or that he's heir to the iron throne or that he's not neds biological son or that he's not really robb sansa arya bran and rickons half brother but that the man who raised him the most honourable man he had ever met lied to him

[@26moonstar]

And Sam had to bring him back and remind him that had Ned not done that he did, he would’ve been executed on site, infant or not. Ned keeping that secret saved his life. Imagine how heartbroken Ned must’ve been holding that in for all that time.

[@jeffese]

Memories.... memories of my best experience in Television....

[@themasterzman1172]

And thx to D&D it didn't mean a gosh darn thing

[@nitinkapoor1369]

ending was perfect we could notice this also during dany's dream is S2 broken ceiling, she at the wall , meeting khal drogo Rhaegal and viserion (also hearing their sound) and also the iron throne which is freezed (she didn't sit on it ) (also shows that winter arrived and it was melted) Also bran's vision in S4 and s6 showed that dany is going to burn king's landing In S6's vision He saw 3 images again and again in particular order 1st pic dany giving birth to drogon (drogon is only visible) 2nd pic he saw dragon flying over king's landing 3rd he saw areys Targaryen saying burn them all He also saw burning of sept 4episodes earlier in this vison

[@dylangoddard7449]

@@nitinkapoor1369 "Dany kind of forgot about the iron fleet"

[@devenfeldstein9796]

It meant everything 💗

[@cephydash1533]

@@nitinkapoor1369 Execution was piss poor. They needed to elaborate on Dany, but they didn't do it enough. If the ending was "perfect" people would still be talking about how great this show was, but now... It is rarely spoken off.

[@nitinkapoor1369]

@@cephydash1533 yeah🔥 but it is critisism is far more compared to what it deserved

[@syd_jzx100]

The takeaway from this video? Stannis never doubted Ned Stark's honour. Never thought to assume Ned would put aside his honour to father a bastard.

[@davejoseph5615]

Why would anyone care if he was "The rightful heir" in a story where possession is 99.999999999999% of the law?

[@davejoseph5615]

@@mohsin1950 That's what I mean. If you have the biggest military then you get the throne with no regard for the "rightful heir."

[@cloudstone123]

Because being a 'rightful heir' matters in a feudal society. It is the basis of it.

[@krishnagite8699]

@@davejoseph5615 Nope she became the Queen bcoz she had military plus she was the only living heir of the mad king....if she wasnt who she was...she wouldnt have got the support of Dorne and that Old lady...idk her name....and then she would have had to destroy half the kingdom and repeat Aegon's conquest

[@johnnyboogalo4897]

@@davejoseph5615 yean tywin said that "you think a crown gives you power then tyrion said no armies give you power which is true

[@Stephen12396]

I remember watching game of thrones all of summer 2015, then I rewatched it all again in summer 2016 and the second time I picked up on all of these hints no joke, realised it was Jon and that all the hints and theories about him being Rhaegar and Lianna's child was true!!! Honestly very well done to drop such little hints

you forgot that part where Jon talked to Maester Aemon about his little brother Egg -- or Aegon which later we found was supposedly Jon's real name.

[@shariqvaid]

jon was 6th of his name :) aegon (6th of his name) :)

[@rhaevan.maniyara]

I still believe Jon's real name will be Aemon Targaryen.

[@christopherthrobbin7951]

in the book i really dont understand how it was a huge mystery. Literally everytime Leanna is brought up Ned thinks about Jon two seconds later.

[@RedBullxMD]

You could have literally taken ALLLLLL of this story line out of the TV show and it would not have mattered!

[@MOR74R]

How did they not use it (I dont watch got)

[@mygetawayart]

no, because this storyline is what started it all, it's what put everything in motion, it's what caused everything to happen. The problem is that in the end it did not matter because he ended up not being king anyway.

[@cloudstone123]

@@mygetawayart Which would have been boring since it is how most fantasy stories of this kind end.

[@justinjairam27]

Incorrect. You take all of the Jon story out, and there’s no war to begin with. Game of Thrones would never have begun. There were clearly huge consequences for his parents actions, that doesn’t mean it had to lead to a large effect on Jon’s ending.

[@paulkellerman2603]

@@justinjairam27 Rhaegar started the war and destroyed his whole family. Why? Because he had to procreate useless idiot Snow.

[@imralav]

For some reason it was very moving, the last scene especially. Such a strong piece of fantasy, thank you, mister Martin.

[@Legio__X]

Stannis had it figured out the whole time.

[@Lexx4k]

"Hi, I am Rhaegar and these are my children, Rhaenys, Aegon and Aegon..." Those stupidos could have shown the capacity to come up with literary ANY other Targaryen name :D

[@mish2637]

Lmao, D&D are legitimately some of the stupidest tv show writers ever, it honestly would've been better if they just had Lyanna name her son Rhaegar after his father, that would've made more sense than naming him Aegon smh.

[@azzurriblue65]

Pretty sure the name is what GRRM has chosen too, there are more than enough hints suggesting that (there is a 'dragon egg [aegeon]' in the crypts)

[@jimmytwotime6875]

Someone didn't read the books lol

[@azzurriblue65]

@@jimmytwotime6875 who

[@ScumbagKazuela]

He believed his male son would be the Prince that was promised so he wanted him to be named after aegon, first by elia Martel and later by lyanna. Its similar to richard the Lionheart calling each of his swords excalibur.

[@davideiceman]

Technically Robert's rebellion wasn't built on a lie. It was caused by King Aerys when he ordered Jon Arryn to execute Robert and Ned, who were at the Eyrie with him. At this point, they could either accept the King's orders and die, or do something about it.

[@jankasolis61]

Yep. but the showrunners kind forgot xd

[@chavitanwar2126]

And why did the king order it?

[@crullea.s]

​@@chavitanwar2126 He is mad

[@urthboundmisfit]

It was caused because Ned's brother, who was a complete hothead, stormed into the Red Keep demanding single combat with Prince Rhaegar over the alleged abduction of Lyanna. That was what started it. I don't blame Brandon (the brother). That was his sister. But that was what set Aerys off.

[@davideiceman]

@@chavitanwar2126 Because Ned's brother went to King's Landing asking for Rhaegar's head for kidnapping Lyanna. The King, who was already nuts, had him and his father killed. It's not like "Rhaegar took Lyanna from Robert and Robert rebelled in response because he couldn't accept that Lyanna loved someone else". Robert may have been furious about it, but he took up arms only after having been branded an outlaw by the King.

[@peytonteague5965]

Ned tarnishing his honorable reputation to protect his nephew is truly the most honorable thing he ever did

[@regiltube7932]

2:56 The transition to a poor, cute, innocent, and vulnerable baby, to the eyes of Traumatic hard rockin events and challenges. Always put a dumbstruck to my face.

[@MarcoCastilloVideos]

Dannng it literally gives you chills to see Sam tell John "you are Aegon Targeryan"