Jonathan Ross: Deepseek Special - How Should OpenAI and the US Government Respond | E1253

[@20VC]

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[@coltzhao]

Personal Opinion: For Data Distillation Assumptions, If you use it with different language for a while you know it is NOT very correct. Because 1. A lot of Chinese guys begin to play with DS model to write articles using Chines website specific language style, some of the places, that kind of trashing around using very distinct style. And this as I observe, with ChatGPT subscription, ChatGPT can NOT do it for sure. 2. Regional specific questions but not mentioning region, similar to like cooking recipe, travel itinerary planning, DS have quite distinct taste from ChatGPT. This is definitely not a 100% proof, but if you know both language, you surely can notice it very easily.

[@ascoaptwwasmqx2840]

Doesn't mater if its CCP or KGB, so long its free open source and engineers can use it to further innovate other services. This gives hopes and opportunities to innovators. This is a gift to all engineers. Engineers have enough of greedy corporation that refuse to contribute to a healthy ecosystem and have no intention to compete fairly. If US corporation can use cheap H1B from India, why can't US workers use cheaper services from China?

[@古德雍飛]

American companies have invested high capital costs and need to recover them from Americans. Capital should not be traded at a loss.

[@richardlee3971]

well said, fight against the greedy tech oligarchies

[@DonG-1949]

Tell me you know nothing about cybersecurity without saying it

[@第九骑士]

Even toilet paper can impact U.S. national security.

[@toromanow]

Unlike China (or Russia), everyone can express themselves in the US and on the US media, say whatever thhey want, no matter how idiotic, including trolls from China and Russia.

[@vincentwong1477]

I dare you to excercise you freedoms of speech about Israelis and the genocide in Gaza. Do you know it is illegal to say anything bad about Jews in America?

[@Rainierfox]

LOL so true

[@Foody-j4z]

OK say bad things about Jewish

[@thinhvcoin]

@@toromanow you should really travel more. But your avata is a pretty clear evidence that your brain is gone

[@zonda1968]

And the US government does not take all your data. It’s crazy to hear people talk about China without talking about their own government's actions. I would give my data to China which has lived 800,000 people out of poverty. They have free healthcare and education. Less or no homelessness. So please tell me why I should be concerned about China.

[@Felipe-n3j]

USA to China: NO, we will not allowed you to join our exclusive international space program…..CHINA : ohh well its ok, we build our own space station , more hightech & it just cost us a fraction of what you had spent in building you space station…& we will finish it in just 2 yrs.😊😊😊

[@jeanchindeko5477]

Wait soon American will say China stole that Space station from them! The new American motto: stop the steal! All time victims

[@beijingChef]

space stations are just piece of low tech bullshits put together. More high tech than communication satellite? You just kidding me. They were high tech in 1980s. Bullshit right now.

[@jasonchen5994]

Now Google is forcing me to provide my government photo ID or my service would be limited. I have no choice because I have used Gmail for 20 years. Should I be more concerned about CCP knowing a nobody in the US or Google who wants to know my name, address, photo, DOB, and government assigned ID number? They can further collect information about me from the data brokers. Yeah, I am one of those what Jonathan Ross called "stupid people." I am worried more about the new Google policy than CCP whom I have no business with.

[@stvdmc2011]

Forced me to provide cell or another email to prove who I'm

[@thundavolt]

This is a very balanced take. The only thing that’s strange to me is the sudden switch to taking the moral high ground when OpenAI trained in copyrighted data. There’s been a lot of moral dishonesty that is very American. It’s the argument where the perpetrator tells you it was a long time ago, they don’t do that anymore and, it’s time to move on. This is all done while benefiting from past shady actions. I’m m not saying DeepSeek is right but let’s not play this game of pretending western companies don’t steal or exploit.

[@Anders01]

The U.S. government must be freaking out! DeepSeek makes TikTok look like a harmless toy in comparison. Personally I use DeepSeek and think it's fine, but for a Western government then it's about national security.

[@Richard-eg6fw]

Crying baby: deep seek is a weapon of CCP. I'm scared. I want mommy😭

[@曾憲祥-c5q]

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂😂😭😭😭😭😭

[@999score]

So if its a weapon what 🤴felony 🎺 💨 lies bragging, sanctions can do nothing

[@maheshrathod204]

😂😂😂😂

[@gohsiewhau4819]

Your mummy is preferring to staying in china now. China is safe,free n comfortable n affordable to live in...

[@techinsider3611]

Theft is natural for west, Ask India😂

[@henksir8925]

I thought robbery is

[@mykegoh]

Ccp this...ccp that.. The whole of US is on a panicking mode. 😂😂😂😂😂

[@jeanchindeko5477]

12:11 taking the same argument should all other countries be scared to let they citizens data in the hands of American companies subject to American laws. By the way the US still don’t have any federal data protection laws like European GDPR and the Chinese PIPL.

[@Felipe-n3j]

It’s unbelievable! USA $500 billion AI competing against China $6 million AI…woooo not bad at all… it just shows how good brilliant those young Chinese engineers, mathematicians & scientists are in CHINA 🇨🇳 today…DEEPSEEK RI is just their first opening card.😊😊😊

[@yakuza01]

I agree but also (and not to take any credit away from the Chinese), it should also make you wonder how much these US tech corporations (or any corporation) inflate their costs and value. It's like the unscrupulous mechanic that makes you order all these overprices parts that cost thousands for a job that should have taken a couple of hundreds or not even that.

[@attilaszasz-mb2sj]

I couldn’t shake the feeling that Jonathan must have a maths background based on the way he was answering, so I quickly checked after watching, and boy, was I right.Hats off to Jonathan and Harry for keeping it real, one of the most dense and insightful 20VC episodes I've seen.

[@fallinloveatfirstdream4222]

Such solutions are ineffective because Chinese models utilize data based on philosophical literature and historical references unique to China, resulting in superior performance compared to Western AI models. This reflects the sophistication of AI models.

[@hermanhsu5994]

Ross started talking about CCP and his ignorance and arrogance had shown. GM, VW, and... can tell you the profit they made in China. By.

[@MikeButcher1]

Linux (Open Source ) was a clone of Unix. Apple adopted Unix into macOS. So Open Source won.

[@johnkintree763]

If DeepSeek helps build an open source, decentralized, and privacy protecting global platform for collective terrestrial intelligence, CTI, I'm all for it. The platform needs to be able to merge, deduplicate, fact check, and aggregate the knowledge and sentiment expressed in public conversations with billions of people around the world. People could access the platform with their phones.

[@johngrabner]

Superhuman AI will heavily rely on reinforcement learning by exploring multiple inference paths, adjusting temperature to generate diverse outputs, and reinforcing the best-performing ones. This makes inference a crucial component of its optimization process. So training also needs inference.

[@nelsonlam9583]

Can you switch the name of CCP to any (if not just US) government and examine if there is also a concern?

[@rodrigo445678]

The CCP is a dictatorship, not all governments are equal

[@jeanchindeko5477]

30:20 So it’s ok for America to rig the game but unfair if other does anything to their advantage!

[@julianchung9215]

Its all about open ai losing money that freaking out the greedy bastards..

[@asdfasdffdcd]

Tips: when you heariing a claim, better pay attention to the speaker, who is he? where he stand?

[@shiulai5804]

DeepSeek's new model is a WIN for AI Science.

[@DigitalDesignET]

Thanks for this interview. Jonathan is such an interesting person in the industry.

[@samyueldanyo8679]

Chips to coal is false equivalency. As steam engines got more efficient the demand for the energy from coal increased and since the coal does not really change its properties it can be used as an abstraction. As the efficiency of models increases the demand for computing might increase (that is if it proves useful similarly to steam engines) but since chips also get more efficient the number of chips might stay the same or even drop depending in the scaling of each. That also tells one nothing of the margins or total profits off of “coal” so more nuance is needed when discussing certain topics. Good convo overall!

[@ps3301]

Groq can't host full fat deepseek as their cluster can't handle the demand

[@qbitsday3438]

Keep watching ,restriction will happen after "Chinese New Year" Right now it is CNY.

[@DonG-1949]

pressing the CEO to wax offensive realist is a power move

[@GetJustPaid]

Good episode!

[@AnandKrishAK]

One thing I would like to point out is that the opinion that DeepSeek V3 or R1 was trained on OpenAI models (o1 or o3 or whatever) is just a speculation. They have not mentioned that in their report nor have they said such a thing anywhere else. DeepSeek R1 distilled from V3 outputs and did not use any OpenAI model. Recently, OpenAI has alleged that DeepSeek used their outputs, but there is no basis nor concrete proof for such allegations.

[@dayone1992]

this guy has 0 knowledge in model collapsing or perhaps AI in general..

[@rodrigo445678]

wtf are you talking about hahaha, do you even understand what Groq is?

[@banshong3997]

Your title is a put off. It's uncalled for and perhaps stupid 👎👎

[@earleyelisha]

Great discussion

[@brianye964]

"Distilling"? Why don't you have the same ability to "distill", I wonder ?????? Well, in fact you can, because DeepSeek is open source, you can use it.

[@DanBurgaud]

Free Weapon for everyone If it is a weapon, why give it to Americans too?

[@tanta4801]

Without open source, No one in this world would have a 3D printer in their house. Thanks to open source I have a few.

[@commonsensedev]

This is magical and hard to beleive, if they just distilled it, most queries will still provide close to same result Provide reference info about the topic because this could be replicated in small open source models if true

[@PutraMing]

😱😱😱😂😂😂❤❤❤WOW GOD BLESS CHINA

[@aar0n709]

OpenAI has no branding, guys delusional.

[@xushenxin]

😂😂😂 i cant believe this guy can bitching around for one hour

[@joshwright3683]

Unfortunately, open source doesn't always win. Compare Linux to MS Windows, compare Open Office to MS Office. I wish the statement were true, it doesn't seem to be supported by fact.

[@aar0n709]

Those are applications though LLMs are a commodity similar to AWS. It’s just a tool with no branding at all. Windows is a brand, MS is a brand. OpenAI has no brand whatsoever neither does DeepSeek. Apple is a brand, AWS isn’t really. Even NVIDIA is a commodity play. If any company were able to make GPUs better or cheaper it’s effectively game over

[@aar0n709]

Also Linux did win, in the server market

[@jimmyf.x.9526]

Your comparison should be Unix, Solaris specifically vs Linux. Linux won. MS vs Linux is not fair since MS is more focused on a different type of customer.

[@joshwright3683]

@aar0n709 Aar0n, your argument contradicts itself. You say LLMs and GPUs are commodities, yet you name brands like OpenAI and NVIDIA-proving they have brand power. Branding matters, even in ‘commodity’ markets. Your ‘game over’ argument oversimplifies competition. If a better product meant automatic market dominance, we’d see monopolies everywhere. But reality shows that many competitors co-exist. Coke didn’t kill Pepsi, Visa didn’t eliminate Mastercard, Boeing still competes with Airbus, and AMD holds market share against Intel and NVIDIA. As for Linux, yes, it dominates servers and cloud, but that doesn’t mean open source always wins. Microsoft still rules enterprise desktops, and OpenOffice lost to MS Office because businesses prioritize integration, support, and ecosystem over being free. Market success isn’t just about having the cheapest or the best product-it’s about business models, branding, and adoption. That’s why Microsoft, AWS, and NVIDIA remain dominant despite competition. In short, open source does not ALWAYS win!

[@MS-wz9jm]

Its completely different in this case. LLM's are just tools that any other software can utilize. As for Linux to Windows, id say Linux won - has around 65% of the server market.

[@mikeliu5201]

Loser mindset

[@Aedonius]

The first 20 seconds are not a good look if you think distillation was more than the original model.

[@DualDGamer]

Why is the guest stating the scraped the open ai model as if it's fact.

[@patrickyiu8698]

U guys don't know anything about Hong Kong and China. Don't be so loud to make a comment.

[@abrameto]

Dude I’m so excited

[@seekingworldlywisdom]

The next big thing is the Chinese is going to build something like Groq LPU - like in the pennies.

[@halfjin763]

can't believe I watched this guy for over 30 mins, what a waste

[@divinelyindifferent]

DeepSeek's free, high-quality standard subscription and API pricing (1/30th of ChatGPT's) may threaten the commercial viability of closed-source AI companies like OpenAI.

[@rehanjawaid8341]

Was't that the core of beef between Altman and Musk. Musk wanted OpenAI to be Opensource and Altman closed it off?

[@mitchellchristianson8120]

The cars the EVS they're building That's the revolution. In China right now. Look at the🎉 penetration in government forecast well well now this with nanotechnology laser technology 5G dram 5 not Samsung MC cube storage byd Saudi Arabia deal etc ai helps. EVS in many ways in China

[@mitchellchristianson8120]

Xpeng BYD I've been buying I can wait over the long-term yes Nvidia isn't a dog on a leash company that CEO ain't going to play that game? It's not 11 countries in the world counting the United States

[@MrBillythefisherman]

o1 is not better than R1as its more expensive to run and in a test time compute scenario the cheaper you can search the tree the more searches you can do and so the better results you can get.

[@tyko2686]

Cry! baby, cry!!

[@veshrajshrestha3710]

My pooh is national security urgency for USA 😂😂😂. When is trump coming to dispose it😂😂😂

[@tengsiangong8485]

Uncle Roger: Why so weak?

[@yashchavan8503]

22:50 lol what the heck you're doing with the pen?

[@onetwokaafour]

Taking note

[@ben6]

Some nice insights, thanks! But loool. His suggestion to OpenAI to open source their models signals his extremely biased view as a model hosting provider. Making a quick buck off hosting Deepseek on Groq too.

[@KingKoin88]

Talking about some Chinese AI, the host pulls his eyes like these at 20:20 😂

[@NA18NA]

it makes no sense for openai to open source. the fact they're closed is a big advantage imo

[@Vinayone8]

too good podcast in the recent I watched

[@Matt-yp7io]

why does he keep saying mata?

[@AntonioBenamer]

Democracy vs communism NOT its About Monopoly and control of the narrative.😢

[@TheWisestCompanyOnEarth]

Brand is the only Moat.

[@mikert89]

Really high quality video

[@t.w.7065]

groq wants everyone to open source for aparent reason 😂

[@shiulai5804]

This discussion would be more helpful minus the paranoia over DeepSeek 's country of origin.

[@jng4880]

It is CPC, not CCP. It’s like calling AUS instead of USA 😉

[@ledgermanager]

lol. the only open in OpenAi is where they get their ideas and data from😅

[@douglachman7330]

Why would you carry a pen and not have a notepad or paper?,then write on your hand.

[@danielshinerock1526]

He is stressed out.

[@lifefun1987]

openAI go open then its market cap be 0.

[@simonh1552]

Anything, whatever, invented by China is always termed as National Security Threats by US even garlic. Never even say China, it can shivers the USA Strongly. 😂😂😂😂😂

[@CognitiveDissonance2.0]

The best answer is to invest at least $2T in AI infrastructure in the US. To do that sell US treasury bonds to China. This way they will fund their own demise 🤣🤣🤣

[@paulsu8749]

These guys are lost. This podcast is going every which way.

[@stvdmc2011]

As soon as ccp comes it just blah blah blah.

[@testsubjectzero8918]

Why is this man wearing his undershirt to interview people?

[@hehez7799]

建议举白旗吧

[@stvdmc2011]

Sound like biased.....

[@KatanaPlastik]

any Scammer from South Africa..

[@eleghari]

Let the propaganda begin...🤭

[@rickytan8009]

BS

[@PhilipDenys]

opensource that sh it ;)

[@511132123211356]

for loser, it doesn't matter if something a weapon or not, it doesn't matter if a Party good or evil. whatever happens, you lose, so why you care about these shit?

[@thundavolt]

This is a very balanced take. The only thing that’s strange to me is the sudden switch to taking the moral high ground when OpenAI trained in copyrighted data. There’s been a lot of moral dishonesty that is very American. It’s the argument where the perpetrator tells you it was a long time ago, they don’t do that anymore and, it’s time to move on. This is all done while benefiting from past shady actions. I’m m not saying DeepSeek is right but let’s not play this game of pretending western companies don’t steal or exploit.