Jordan Peterson - This isn't Progress, it's Tribalism

original source: • Political correctness:...
Dr. Jordan B. Peterson's opening speech at the Munk debate.
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12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos: amzn.to/2yvJf9L

[@bigt9905]

JP brings a gun to a knife fight.

[@spaceleopard6127]

more like a SCUD missile

[@bigt9905]

Space Leopard - SCUD? No! MOAB is more like it.

[@bigt9905]

Dinopolese Sharkosaur - Dyson is a poor version of Magneto...

[@metawarp7446]

Big T Jp brings a Death Star into a knife fight.

[@bigt9905]

MetaTeoria - yep

[@BitesizedPhilosophy]

I thought this was a very depressing debate to watch. Not only was I highly interested in this debate, but I also wanted to be the first who uploads the most interesting parts of it, because I was so sure it would be filled with them. I was ready to upload the more heated part of the debate, but I just couldn't get myself to upload that garbage debate, filled with world salad, race baiting, insults, passive aggressive behavior, but it probably was the arrogance on top of it all that really got to me. I myself watched a fair bit of "SJW GOT REKT LOL" clips, so I understand the appeal, but in the case of this debate I couldn't find anything amusing about it, but it was unsettling and sad. Dr. Peterson once said that watching a grown up throwing a tantrum like a 2 year old child is scary and this debate reminded me of that, but it was more of an intellectual tantrum - if that makes any sense. I understand the importance of watching closely when radicals behave badly but I just don't want to walk down that road with this channel. It's not beneath me or anything like that, but it puts my mind into a place where I don't want to be - I can get really into this type of stuff, the nasty part of my psyche enjoys watching it for all the wrong reasons. My mood got even worse when I willingly dropped the ball on being one of the first and getting lots of views and subscribers for this channel, but I should remind myself that it isn't about that (I am highly disagreeable and competetive, which makes it hard). The opening speech of Dr. Peterson was the best part for me and the points he made were completely ignored, which was kind of expected. I can't say I can recommend watching the rest, but the link is in the description . Overall the debate might have a good effect and the attention it's getting has it's own reasons, so I don't want to be all too negative about it. I just had to rant and I am glad I can spam my own comment section, instead of pestering my friends & family about it who don't care as much about these topics. I am really curious about how the whole debate did affect your mood. Not at all? Energized? Angry? Bored? Like watching car-crashes on KZbin? Depressing? More funny than anything?

[@Astroducc]

The feeling it left me with was that, the only solution now is full out war. And it made me really depressed.

[@cellardoor7500]

I watched the full thing twice...my conclusion was that if Dyson was replaced by someone willing to debate the topic it would have been a much better debate. I have to admit that I also felt that if it was just Jordan on stage I’d have walked away very happy. But that’s not a debate I know...

[@SageHeru]

Did anyone feel like they stayed on topic? It seemed as if they were debating different topics.

[@TaxationIsTheft101]

Bite-sized Philosophy dr Jordon Peterson held his ground through the childish insults. That was the best part of this debate. He's too factual for these people, they just won't listen to any of his points, the one guy kept talking over him. I could hardly call this a debate.

[@Luciano3415]

This debate left me irritated on the one hand because of the fact that the discourse presented by dyson became a regular part of arguing in today's society (we can thank the radical left for that) and that he wont face any other consequence apart from ridicule (imagine if a white person called a black person 'an angry black man', probably wouldnt be able to have a public speech ever again), and hopeful on the other hand because of the 6 percent that managed to leave their minds open to facts and changed their perspective on the topic after the debate. And of course, on top of that, as always thankful for intelectuals like Jordan Peterson. (With mr. Fry's performance being a positive surprise)

[@mokiji766]

Dyson didn't have the intellect to be part of this debate.

[@bobbysmith3828]

Affirmative action gave him status above his ability.

[@diempardon4259]

Bobby Smith | Since when have Blacks ever been the majority for Affirmative Action. This argument is as tainted as the welfare argument. 60 years ago Blacks had to fight for the right to get access because it was initially designed for white widows.

[@daniellassander]

Jordan Peterson distinctly explains Dysons view.

[@heatherfeather2711]

Debates should not be won. They are a mechanism for self correction.

[@ricardocardoso9734]

Heather Feather the 2 aren't mutually exclusive.

[@KrustyKrabbz2]

Discussions are held for an outcome. Debates are sport.

[@bobbysmith3828]

Debates are won. Jordan doesn't have all the arguments. Stefan Molyneux does. Jordan is afraid to talk about race realism (but not afraid to go on Stefan Molyneux's show).

[@MrMarbles0Xecution]

I don't think anything can 'are not be', I guess I agree.. 🙃

[@heatherfeather2711]

MrMarbles0Xecution I fixed it. Thanks for calling my attention to where I needed to self correct.

[@heatherfeather2711]

I have watched the whole debate. It was very disappointing. Jordan and Fry, true intellects, wanted a conversation and Dyson just stuck to his childish behavior and acting out because he perpetually doesn't feel good about being black and must make it everyone elses problem. Dyson needs to learn it is none of his business what other people think of him and just live his own life.

[@darienford860]

Heather Feather This is the same guy who said white were obligated to pay African Americans today. Even though he's wealthy and a Princeton graduate

[@tnwomantanyaneill703]

Amen!

[@kaikart123]

I cringed watching this debate, Dyson always goes white people this white people that without providing any argument.

[@Trrippy_Shades]

Keep being real we need more people like you woke.

[@cremedelacorn5356]

These riots had me thinking of this issue. Thanks for clipping this

[@lifesedgeart9303]

About to start resharing this

[@fdouglas9604]

Yup that's why I'm here

[@KrustyKrabbz2]

The opening statements were all very impressive, especially Dr. JP's. I'm sorry that he got wrapped up in actually debating with the others who didn't even stay focused on the topic of political correctness, as Fry mentions several times. I think we were all as disappointed as Fry was.

[@JD..........]

A truer and more coherent 6 minutes of human Orientation have never been uttered.

[@IsaacAsimov1992]

I agree.

[@supremereader7614]

One of the most important videos on the internet right now. I’m just glad the buffalo stopped grunting for this part of the debate.

[@jondoe6273]

It's depressing to watch this debate. Or maybe scary. Because Dyson actually represents what the radical left thinks. They will watch this and think Dyson is their hero. And that's all he really wanted out of this, more attention so he can continue reaping the benefits of group victimization. It's a very lucrative business. While he leads his lambs to slaughter, he walks merrily on his way a very, very rich man. And his followers just don't seem to care about that, just as long as he continues fighting for their right to be oppressed. I do think that's an accurate description.

[@ricardocardoso9734]

JON DOE how does he win money by being racist tho? I am truly curious. As a European I just can't understand this man. These ideas he stated are incredibly racist and no one, at any point, in the moderation stops him.

[@jondoe6273]

ALJustice0 Not exactly. He gets grants, donations and in true Sharpton, Jackson spirit, he hustles businesses, politicians and individuals to pay a sum not to be targeted as being racist through protests and other sources of personal destruction. And he sells racist books.

[@vkampi2312]

Dr. Jordan Peterson is, and I say this with the greatest consideration, the Messiah of our time! He manages to put in words, so many things I've known deep down to be true but have somehow not found the way to express. With every word, it's like he's waking up a certain part of my psyche that I have been consciously or subconsciously inhibited for one reason or another.

[@ducko1988]

A jewel amongst stones

[@billybrothers2492]

I’m glad he exist.

[@lucilagk3215]

Oh, poor Jordan. The debate was disappointing and difficult to go through without wanting to actually punch the screen. This guy has to tolerate so much shit thrown to him being completely controlled. He needs a hug.

[@peterhayssen3609]

Jordan is so articulate

[@klausmuhlhoff1464]

I'm left wondering " is it just me " thinking that Jordan was the only one making sense ?

[@FarahFarah-ym4fp]

Stephen Fry too.

[@sadhu7191]

I could not recognize most words he said. He uses bigger words when angered

[@lovelove-lu8wo]

Jordan Peterson - Explanatory Power is off the roof!!

[@tnwomantanyaneill703]

I felt this was EPIC! I have only watched this clip because i don't want to see the unhelpful parts that the other people brought to the debate. I may watch more later but I needed to concentrate on Peterson's part to give me an overview of what to expect from the whole debate.

[@marcianusvalerius1992]

What I will always find most fascinating are JP‘s critics. They call the man, including his supporters, „cultists“ even though individualism, personal responsibility, critical thinking skills and free thought is what this supposed „cultist“ is advocating for - concepts that are completely antithetical to any sort of cult. For some reason, they also like to throw the term „incel“ at those who agree with Peterson. They genuinely seem to believe that Peterson and his supporters are „alt right“ advocates. JP‘s criticism of the far left they describe as Peterson and his following being a „triggered snowflakes“, meaning one cannot criticize collectivism/post-modernism, otherwise they are „triggered“. It seems as though these far leftists cannot separate the persona of Jordan Peterson from the ideas he is expressing. They act like these ideas haven‘t existed long before Peterson and that they are somehow inherently attached to his persona. To summarize, the critique I‘ve seen of Peterson so far consists mainly of ad-hominem attacks and (deliberate) misinterpretation of his viewpoints. It‘s like observing animals in a zoo and gazing in a state of fascination. Only this time the subject of observation are leftist collectivists who roam around the free market of ideas.

[@bobrodachy9759]

God bless Jordan Peterson.

[@lovelove-lu8wo]

3:39 Aha moment by Stephen Frye.

[@claudes.whitacre1241]

I watched the entire debate. The comments of the people that saw the debate, and the results of the survey done before and after the debate leads me to believe that the people attracted to this kind of debate are of above average education. Just keeping up with Peterson's thinking requires a sharp mind.

[@buffoonustroglodytus4688]

Yes I am very intelligent because I watch jordan peterson

[@diempardon4259]

Sir Gus the Mighty 😂😩😂

[@Vence.]

The things is, if you don't have some a level of verbal proficiency, then you'd be incapable of understanding the concepts Jordan speaks about. Not because you'd be to dull to understand, but because the way Jordan speaks would puzzle some this into boredom or annoyance, and give up on keeping track of him.

[@danialroxx]

You rock

[@akirubamiru6700]

I don't agree with some of his idea vehiculed by this video but the general idea of the video, I agree.

[@amal-ti2zz]

Nailed. It.

[@chris432t6]

Excellent as always! First time hearing nervousness in his voice during the first few minutes? Looks like quite a large audience that are all formally dressed and i would think that any speaker would be little nervous?

[@dangray9536]

All possible to get more information please

[@Jack__________]

Jordan is a “modern day - Jesus Christ” ... he speaks TRUTH!

[@paulthoresen8241]

I sort of can't believe how much he has exploded, but at the same time I felt that he would, he is too influential to be ignored. His name will go down in history.

[@pedronunes8766]

disappointing to see the opposition glancing through a leaflet instead of hearing the closing argument...

[@isitoppositeday6944]

When I was young my father told me there are two sides... the collectivist side and the individual side. I knew then that preserving individual liberty effectively ensures freedom to the group. My response surprised him as he was more a collectivist at the time. To him I think it seemed selfish... but which really is?

[@winniewildflower3540]

This snippet is brilliant. I feel like i want to memorise it......at least i will listen to it over and over. I would not listen to the whole debate because i'm sure it would be a matter of casting pearls before swine ( no disrespect intended)

[@1995yuda]

Slayed them without breaking a sweat.

[@seychellesyuri]

The debate was proff that tribalism runs in our DNA. I think the central point made Jordan Peterson still holds. We don't have a low resolution grand narrative that unite us anymore. The obvious consequences will be to fight or to separate. Tribes fight, but they also do separate and make another tribe. The most optimal path would be to sepparate those two grand narratives that cannot coexist in the same place and make another tribe somewhere

[@TheIbdeathskull]

That makes no sense whatsoever. Pooping is in our dna doesn’t mean it’s okay to poop in the streets. JP just explained how the grand narrative of the individual created the strongest western societies and you want the west to have the tribalism of a third world country. Noob.

[@lovelove-lu8wo]

We returned to Tribalism or Identity Politics. ----> Hmmm... History seems to repeat itself.

[@SusloNick]

yeah it is sad, people are too radicalized on the right and the left, no one wants to realize that its not about "winning" in the moment, but about finding a way to live in peace and ensure wellbeing for everyone (finite game vs infinite in game theory)

[@creativejustice1298]

Tribe is an evolutionary anthropology concept - Peterson should stick to his jungian type shit

[@tehanureaver4299]

Tribe will always win against an individual.

[@vasey6635]

a tribe of individuals who are committed to the values of intelligence, respect, and competence will always win against a tribe banded together by mere surface feature.

[@bobbiejessica3906]

If you boil down the whole point he was making to an absurd degree yes a "tribe" of people will beat a single man in a fight perhaps in the style of lynching.. But when viewed on a large scale tribalism causes endless war and conflict because people are forced into catagories instead of being able to claim there individuality above there "tribe".

[@Upharius]

Learn the proper use of terminology, it's not paradoxical at all.

[@bobbiejessica3906]

Upharius where in this thread is the word paradoxical?

[@tehanureaver4299]

Those are not real and specific values, just some general sweet talk. Real tribe has a creed you cannot fake, a flag you cannot take off. Future is ethnoreligious, the question is only what ethnicities will dominate it.

[@Zgembo121]

Dyson is not even listening to Peterson, hes getting his word salad lines prepared so he can sound smart.

[@landen99]

6:00 Progressivism won't yield progress, but tribalism instead.

[@john1107]

The price of diversity and unity.

[@pikupz]

I'm liberal and I fully agree with Jordan Peterson for the longest time, if this is what being liberal has become, well fuck being a liberal now

[@SergeantSquared]

Picture of NAZI's saluting Hitler, one man jn the crowd refusin to salute: ask Dyson, "Is that man a NAZI?" Either answer defies collectivism. If you say he isn't then the individual trumps the collective because individual can choose their group for his or herself. If you say that he is, which is the rational choice for the collectivist, though they deny ration, then you deny the humanity of the individual, and you deny the individual's ability to make a difference in the world, and either way you go you RAKE HIM OVER THE COALS. Dr. Peterson is right however in presenting himself as a lamb to the slaughter in one sense, more people will respond positively, however, that's just fine when the cost is your own life, when the cost is milluons of others and a race war, I personally think it would be better to be a lion for the sake of those who look to you for hope.

[@EmperorWelkin]

Unfortunately, individualism assumes that each person is capable of the same level of sane rationalization. Hierarchy is not something that can be removed. It is bound in nature itself.

[@clagos247]

I am generally inspired by professor Peterson and his efforts. I must confess that I am discouraged by what appears to me (liberal) to be a carefully orchestrated attack not on wrongs in society but only on wrongs perpetrated by the left. I understand that we are all motivated by the chemical payoffs of our thought processes but I still look to find balance in his venom distribution. Let's side with him for arguments sake that only the left is worthy of his venoms., That socialism for example is evil, ok. Necessity is the mother of invention right so let's talk about the conditions that preempt it. Let's acknowledge the radical right who engage in class warfare everyday while we work . I suspect he is somewhat drunk on being shoulder hoisted on the right. He has a great power to comprehend and communicate. He must see the absurdity in knowing the group machinations from the right, meanwhile telling the left to be only individuals.

[@rickvarner5341]

Dyson sexually abused Fry he must be fired

[@Emmanuel_Ramirez717]

Tribal wapachoso, tribal guarachoso

[@somebodywhocares9293]

From what I see, A failed attempt to Humiliate JP. Dyson Tried to play mind games With a clinical psychologist. Smdh. Need I say more?

[@km91420]

Kinda understand why some people were bummed out by this debate, but at the same time, did no one else find this hilarious? Whathisname Al Sharpton had a potato peeler, Peterson had a D.Eagle. Just chill and go watch Life of Brian or somethin...

[@LesLviv]

Reminds me of Steve Jobs

[@collegeo.b9654]

Worst debate he’s ever done, fry was just moaning about the subject when he could have just got involved with it, other side was just word salad that went nowhere. The only interesting thing from that debate was Peterson explaining how the left doesn’t think communism is a bad idea.

[@rebekahyt5218]

Bite Size Philosophy , I've got a challenge for you. A compilation of JBP denouncing right wing authoritarianism so we can put an end to the ignorant claims of lefties, where ever we should encounter them on social media, with a quick clip. 😉

[@BitesizedPhilosophy]

Not a bad idea actually. I noted it down and will consider it.

[@thusspokezarathustra5179]

Why don’t you tell your Jewish donors about tribalism. Is Hollywood not the Jewish tribalism? Is Wall Street not the Jewish tribalism?

[@bobrodachy9759]

I just don't understand where all of the antisemitism that is expressed in some of these comments is coming from. Why all this hatred of Jews? Are all of these comments coming from muslims?

[@TornadoOfSouls777]

Dyson destroyed himself with his bullshit

[@fabiansw8]

I get the idea but I don't like the absolute way of looking at an individual of a group speaking for a group, you might agree with most of the beliefs of the group you are a member of but I guarantee you no one 100 % agrees on anything.

[@venenareligioest410]

This is the same Jordan Peterson, Muslim sycophant and apologist who around 2021/2022 called for the ‘religion of the book’ to build closer relationships, when he obviously has never read the Quran or sahih Hadiths (reliable commentaries)!!! “I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them.” (Qur’an 8:12. Surah Al-Anfal ) And before somebody like Peterson tells you that that vile quote is out of context in this modern day, let me tell you that the Quran is the unchangeable, ETERNAL word of god - there is no context of time in the unchangeable!

[@mozorellastick2583]

So he hates tribalism but disagrees with multiculturalism? Make it make sense

[@bobwhite3895]

Did anyone expect anything different from Dyson?, he is nothing more than a demagogue profiting from the uneducated and impressionable. His argument was horrible and proved Peterson's points.

[@kaymonster101]

Jordan....I used to think you were so wise, but now I see that you have a blind spot. We are all part of a collective group called humans. Western humans have developed incredible wealth and power, yet remain one of the emptiest and judgmental group ever to walk the earth. You're trying to tell me that history doesn't tell the power side of the story......really?? And hashing up all of the other collective groups like Ivy League students and professors, CEO's and all the other "Giants' of the industry isn't something we do all the time to give us position in the hierarchy...book smart only goes so far, doesn't it?? Confidence does not replace competence......this is blind babble.

[@ena1920]

The guy rocking back and forth isn't a great public speaker, I don't even have to hear him, but his shoulders are slouched, he's carrying out a repetitive behaviour to ease his discomfort, and he appears to be memorising a speech to an extent variant to his own opinions, its a shame.

[@mltiago]

Jordan Peterson with his cold-war political world view, with a lot of preconceived and inaccurate statements, talking about contemporarily tribalism?

[@greenwoodorganics4681]

So insidious. This man is leading you astray. Everything he says is kind of right and sounds good, but it's twisted. I believe his purpose is to bring us back to materialistic, narcissistic consumerism. He never questions the status quo of corporate capitalism, only the "radicals"- left and right- in relation to it. The cult of the individual is one of the worst things to happen to society.