Do you need the jib on a Hobie 16?

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⛵️Instagram / totaljoyrider After a recommendation from ex Hobie 16 world champion, Gavin Colby, to try the 16 without the jib in a bit of wind, I thought I'd try the 16 without the jib in a bit of wind.
Here are the results.
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[@pureprotein9597]

I went without a job once, we left the mainsail up and had the sheets still attached but loosened facing into the wind, somehow the sheets caught on the corner of the trampoline and she took off, I ran after it and grabbed on, and it was fun, because it’s easier to control in my opinion because you can fly the hull with complete control in windy conditions

[@JoyriderTV]

Yes, you have so much more control solo.

[@hilldaflyer4593]

Very informative, thanks. A few years ago I wanted to try sailing H16 without a jib as most of my sailing is solo. I had a local metal shop fabricate cables the same length as the jib forestay. Rigging was easy by just replacing the jib with the new rig. I found that if you are just out for a joyride, sailing a H16 without a jib is fine because there is little concern for the direction of sailing, your just out to catch wind and have a good time. I did notice that without a jib, trimming for close hauled sailing is less effective you simply can't go upwind as well. Other's have pointed out that tacking is difficult and I echo those reports. Because it is more difficult to sail a close haul, getting the bows across the wind in a tack was more difficult. Since trying it a few times, I simply always rig the jib. I find that sailing the H16 with a jib less frustrating. I just spill the main and it is a very exciting ride. However, this video inspired me to try again with more wind. There have been days I've been intimidated by the wind velocity. Maybe this will get me out on the water when the wind is ripping. Thanks!

[@JoyriderTV]

Great stuff - yes the tacking takes more technique compared to with a crew but after some practicing it will make your technique better for sure. Thanks

[@wilmot0]

It looks a lot more manageable and you have increased visibility, and the bow does ride higher.

[@JoyriderTV]

For solo - strong winds, as long as your tacking technique is good - it's a winner

[@Dlawler]

Random thought, a hobie 14 turbo jib, at almost half the size of the 16 jib, it'll depower the rig, but still have something to help get the nose around

[@JoyriderTV]

could be a good plan or any smaller jib, but, if the dimensions don't line up you may not be able to get tension in the leech.

[@Dlawler]

@@JoyriderTV now that you mention it, turbo 14 jibs do overlap the mast abit, so there is a potential for that to be a problem, it'll certainly be interesting out of sheer curiosity to see if a 14, 15 or getaway would sit well

[@JoyriderTV]

@@Dlawler it's now on the list of videos to make - we've got jibs of various shapes + sizes to try

[@Konfliktloeser]

great new position for the aditional camera - so we see you in full action... its almost like crewing on a joyride... keep that camera angel up in future ... thumps up!!!

[@JoyriderTV]

Yes, i thought so too!

[@scottpwenger]

Great vid I’ve always wondered but always throw the jib up anyway. Will try it in the fall during hurricane season ;)

[@fedup3449]

First time i ever sailed a HB16 was with no jib. No training, tuition. Nothing. I was big into windsurfing at the time so tried to use that experience. Worked out fine until i tried to tack. Sod that. Spent the whole day gybing. Great fun. Now i live on the biggest mill pond on the planet. The Med. No point in having a sailboat here.

[@JoyriderTV]

Nice! I know quite a few windsurfers who did something similar.

[@gibbeys]

I used to sail mine without a jib when I had heavy air and sailed solo. Takes a bit of practice to tack when not used to sailing without one. Push too hard and will still pitch pole like a big dog. That was 40 years ago.

[@JoyriderTV]

Nice! Yes, for sure, when you push too hard!

[@alandejonge6473]

Nice clip.....surprised Gavin Colby told you to lose the jib.....he can only sail a 16 one way......bloody quick 😀🇦🇺

[@d.c.racing3594]

Took the Nacra 5.8 out last weekend with no jib. It was fun and still fast enough to get crazy, 10-13 knot winds. Awesome video

[@JoyriderTV]

Great job!

[@antpoo]

I take my Hobie 16 on 100km journeys. Just capsized in 35kt winds trying to sail around the 3 capes of Tasmania. Terrifying.

[@JoyriderTV]

Full respect. I'm glad that you're still in one piece!

[@hobie_cat6015]

That is the way I'ff saild it for years but with a Gennaker. That was some time a Ride on a cannenball. 😄

[@JoyriderTV]

Yes, i've been in Jibless hobie 16 denial for years. I have learnt some thing very good here!

[@davidmanion5369]

Love watching your vids thanks. I have never sailed cats with a jib. I could C straight away your lack of experience without the jib. It's definitely a different way to sail and I can image would take I while to learn if u have always sailed with one. Maybe rake the mast forward as well. I must say taking in current against wind is near impossible 😢

[@JoyriderTV]

Yes, a good point to bring the mast a touch forward could certainly help.

[@cambridgemicrologiclimited9917]

Sailed my Hobie 16 with just the main sail when the jib was at the doctor's. Found it handled okay and good for not relying on the jib to push the nose through the wind. Tacking technique practice. Joe, how do all your capsize recovery ideas work with just the main sail. Obviously at the shoreline.

[@JoyriderTV]

Much easier righting the boat without the jib - less sail = less weight + less sail sticking to the water

[@hobie16amateurhour52]

Well done. I like the comment below about capsize righting ease. Please go out and capsize with just the main. Semi joking, but am really interested in the difference of righting. If it’s easier with just the main, then that’s the way I’ll sail when the lake is empty and I’m on my own.

[@JoyriderTV]

yes, i'll have to do it on a mooring as we don't have any safety boats to come to the rescue (or people to drive them!) I think it will be a popular video.

[@JoyriderTV]

@Tim Beacham you guys don't ask for much!

[@jcjaramillomo]

definitely will bring the rake of the mast forwards a bit with no jib it will give you more drive forwards.

[@Deano155]

Been watching lots of your videos you have taught me heaps Thanks. I was a hang glider pilot but looking for something new so I took up sailing. A mate told me what to.do and he sent me off solo and I've sailed solo ever since. I've only ever flipped it over once thank God I had watched your video how to write your Cat yew thanks I nailed it. Iv only got a 12 footer it's cool but doesn't have a Jib couple of things you say in this video I don't think I want or need one anything maybe one Thanks mate

[@JoyriderTV]

Glad to help - A jib can be nice for those light wind days when you want more power.

[@chrisbaker6367]

Hey Joe nice video thank you for answering my question I asked on the live sessions on Thursday. Looks great. I find the Dart 18 very nice with just the main have done it a couple of times when taking my 10 old son out in a bit of a breeze. I have found you really have to have the sail set just right as the jib is not providing any draft around the back of the main

[@JoyriderTV]

Yes, when I sailed a Dart 18 back in the day, I was quite regularly out without the JIb - I think the 18 is still the best for either solo or 2 up.

[@jmanswat2457]

Just got an old Solcat 18 and sounds like jibless learning would work for it?

[@nicolasmejia1736]

Thanks. Great videos

[@JoyriderTV]

Thanks!

[@mattkallenberg8567]

Another awesome and informative video. Thanks! Question: Do you think tacking ability might be improved by raking the mast a little bit one way or the other? Curious about soling with just the main after viewing this post of yours! Cheers.

[@JoyriderTV]

For no jib, having the mast a little more upright will actually help - the boat will go up into wind very easily but it's getting away from HTW that is the difficulty

[@pascalblotiau]

Also I know in France they make the easy mainsail which is smaller and boom less I can’t find it here in the US

[@stevenvachon9745]

A "Love It" means it will be an option for a future sail, looking forward to it. Also looks like a good method for newcomers to the solo 16 crowd and also possibly a little easier to right once capsized (?) I do like that wing cam, you might call it, like to see more of it. Gives you the lowdown on one side and a good overview of your technique on the other. Was lens clarity an issue? Ever tried something like RainX or similar product?

[@JoyriderTV]

Yeah, I think when it's windy this will become the new standard and yes, could be easier to come up from capsized. The 'wing cam' I was very pleased with indeed but yes, clarity is an issue. I've tried rain x which didn't work, I've got some other solutions that i'm looking at.

[@steverogers1976]

Sustained 22mph (19.74 kts) at 16:00 on one sail. Nice!

[@JoyriderTV]

Cooking the goose!

[@frbo323]

Tiger without jib in strong wind is awesome, less picht pole and even faster you should try Pat

[@JoyriderTV]

I'll give that a shot!

[@frbo323]

@@JoyriderTV 👍👍👍👍👍we will wait for the video!!!

[@kurthenze2900]

If it was a.daggerboard boat, tacking is easier. Gybing shouldn't be a problem. I'm an old 18square sailor. I prefer a unirig over a sloop rig any day. Unirig with a Boom-vang. Will point higher and lower than any sloop. Without a gennaker. Unirigs are more efficient when correctly sailed.

[@JoyriderTV]

Thanks for the tips! Very interesting

[@cloudsculptor1]

Nice one Joe, I’ll give it a go in September 👍👍. What news on the foilers ? Graeme

[@JoyriderTV]

The foiling cat is off the table for this year. We were so close! Unfortunately lack of funds prevent the purchase.

[@cloudsculptor1]

Joseph Bennett next year ! It’s still the most fun I’ve had with my clothes on :->>

[@martinlarsen6752]

@@JoyriderTV Which foiling cat where you thinking of?

[@Funsho97]

Very cool, glad you made this video Joe. Nice to know we have options with the 16. I'm going to try this soon for sure. How do you take your H16 sailing, one lump or two??? Lol!!!

[@JoyriderTV]

It's the biggest breakthrough that i've had with the 16 in years!

[@bradenrustand4180]

Thanks I'd like to try this! However I keep my forestay slack and only tighten up the rig when I raise the jib. Is there an easy method to tighten up the forestay so the mast isn't too raked? It seems dangerous unless there's a way to keep the mast suspended while changing notches on the forestay plate

[@JoyriderTV]

Yes, in this video i was using a wire strop about 2ft long to put the jib halyard onto to tension the rig.

[@klauswind1]

The Hole is Dark, and full of Funners !!!

[@JoyriderTV]

Deep!

[@pascalblotiau]

How do you set the rig since you have no jib to take the slack of the rigging, a roller furler jib is a good idea too a little smaller though I always thought that there is a lot of power in a jib no matter what boat I sail the jib makes a huge difference especially on a Hobie 16 the jib is huge

[@JoyriderTV]

I put a dyneema rope onto the jib halyard to tension the rig. Next time i'll put a short wire strop to get more tension.

[@outdooradventures2738]

I live in Australia

[@jackmcandle6955]

Hi Joe, Thanks for that helpful clip, I’m have been for the last year a Wailing on a Hobie wave in heavy winds on Buzzards Bay, Massachusetts solo which has been crazy fun surf the swells and now I’m being offered a fixer upper early 80’s H16 which I’ve been hesitant because of fear of crashing with the jib in “certain conditions” my question is did you ever make that video, righting a no jib 16?

[@JoyriderTV]

I'm glad that this helps. No, as of yet, no video for the jibless capsize righting. I'll add it to the list of videos to make once I have a boat ready. Thanks

[@richardstubbs6484]

Nice ! No weather helm ?

[@JoyriderTV]

surprisingly well balanced

[@WFO.Ian.30]

Boy, I don’t know what I would do without my roller furling on my nacra20

[@JoyriderTV]

🤩

[@benjaminservatius947]

My quarantine boredom is cured😂

[@JoyriderTV]

Always glad to help!

[@jasonandrewismail2029]

I think the jib adds more complication than without

[@JoyriderTV]

Yes, for solo, it's certainly nice to have less to do.

[@tataneouquoi]

It’s a Hobig 14 🤣

[@freedome2216]

No It's a hobie 16

[@haydenm.3912]

@@freedome2216 ... That one went over your head

[@jonvandermey5185]

Nice job Joe. I started out leaving the jib in the bag as I was just learning and often sailed solo. A great way to learn. I never did set up the extra rope for the jib tension, however, will try that next time. How much difference do you think it would make?

[@jonvandermey5185]

Also, how did you find this vs reefed main with jib as far as control?

[@JoyriderTV]

Getting the rig tension on will make a big difference - i think that you'll find everything easier and more positive with it pulled tight.

[@JoyriderTV]

@@jonvandermey5185 Much easier than the reefed main - for a start, you're totally in control of everything going on. With the jib, it will always be a factor that you don't have immediate control on. Not as fast without the jib vs reefed but much more control.

[@jonvandermey5185]

Joseph Bennett thanks Joe. Always love your videos!

[@user-ik5yg4bp7s]

Cuáles son las dimensiones de u catamarán como ese ?

[@JoyriderTV]

4.9m x 2.4m The right size!

[@jasonandrewismail2029]

hi the dial you show on the bottom left of the screen displays boat speed and the red arrow is the direction of the wind right ? is this info coming from your wrist watch ? if yes what is the brand of the watch is you dont mind sharing . cheers

[@JoyriderTV]

That's the direction that the camera is pointing - not so useful with it mounted on my head!

[@stealhty1]

13 Kts ,,that;s like 7 days Los Angeles to Hawaii

[@JoyriderTV]

Do people sail that? I'm in!

[@robertfickley6261]

What do you use to anchor the hobie when not in use? Does it hold in strong winds? TIA. Also how are you attaching the GPro on the starboard side.

[@JoyriderTV]

We use a mooring made from a car tyre filled with concrete that has had time to bed into the sand. - yes it holds even in very strong wind. I used a top section of a windsurf mast to get the GoPro shots - worked really well.

[@markkurtis8637]

So, for a beginner, would you say this might be a good way to ease into the world of multihull sailing? Asking for a friend.

[@JoyriderTV]

I'd still start with main and jib as it's so much easier to tack - just start in light winds and build up to the stronger stuff

[@bamboozle999]

would you change the mast rake in order to avoid weather helm?

[@JoyriderTV]

Yes, that would make a lot of sense. I think it would take some trail and error to find the sweet spot.

[@rickusjoubert3414]

Problem is u cant tack the boat with no jib

[@JoyriderTV]

It's still easier than the 14!

[@MrSimonetbenoit]

Anyone tried with no main? Would definitely work on a downwind or beam reach run, but would it go upwind?

[@JoyriderTV]

Unfortunately you can't make good progress upwind without the main. I will make a video to see what angles can be achieved. Thanks

[@steverogers1976]

Dun-Dun-Duuuuu!!!!

[@user-dl7zy4sc9l]

I Sail without my jib on my fj

[@JoyriderTV]

Nice.

[@jasonandrewismail2029]

one less variable to control ?

[@JoyriderTV]

for sure. You can then put all of your focus on the main,

[@jasonandrewismail2029]

it seems you get higher average without jib ?

[@JoyriderTV]

Probably less speed but much less chance of capsize

[@valerybrasseur5715]

how to you set the camera pole on the front bar ?

[@JoyriderTV]

I've ties a piece of windsurf mast to the dolphin striker. I'll make a video to showcase the new mount.

[@robertnorvell1580]

How did you tension mast as my head stay is long and the jib takes up slack?

[@catsailor83]

Same question

[@JoyriderTV]

@@catsailor83 please see above reply.

[@MrSpook79]

What are you using to display your speed and bearing or wind direction?

[@JoyriderTV]

That's the built in GPS on the GoPro (all cameras since the 5 have it) Here's how - kzbin.info/www/bejne/oXnEmH2mp7ikl80

[@MrSpook79]

Joseph Bennett thank you, I’m going to have to upgrade my GoPros. Love the videos, thanks for sharing.

[@DestroyerX61]

no jib makes tacks more difficult

[@JoyriderTV]

for sure.

[@justinketcheside3186]

Is this a good way for a beginner to start sailing a Hobie 16?

[@JoyriderTV]

Better to go with the jib in light wind to start with - no jib makes the tacking a lot more difficult.

[@chrisbrown320]

Which gps watch are you using, Joseph?

[@JoyriderTV]

I use two different GPS watches: 1 - Timex Ironman Global Trainer - very good as it’s really simple, you can customise what information you are being given so that you can use it effectively for different sports. Now discontinued but you can find them on ebay. I just had a quick look, this is the best deal i could find: www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TIMEX-Ironman-Global-Trainer-GPS-ANT-HRM-Heart-Rate-Monitor-Running-Watch-NEW/372367506997?epid=1062700174&hash=item56b2d53e35:g:ZAsAAOSwq~tZXAIA 2 - Locosys GW60 - the official watch of the GPS windsurf speedsailing association. More complex than the Timex but you get more statistical data such as speed over 2, 10 , 20 seconds or 500 meters. here is that one - www.locosystech.com/en/product/gps-watch-gw-60.html here is the video where I did a comparison between the different GPS’ Hobie 16 onboard - gps speed test kzbin.info/www/bejne/pZqvaKmop7ecpas

[@chrisbrown320]

@@JoyriderTV Hey, thanks a bunch for that extensive answer!

[@romaingrosjean1834]

Do you think this would go faster than a H14 turbo?

[@JoyriderTV]

Yes, I think the extra sail area and hull length would make it faster.

[@romaingrosjean1834]

Joseph Bennett you don’t think the weight would make much of a difference?

[@JoyriderTV]

@@romaingrosjean1834 good point - maybe due to the weight there would be certain conditions when the 14 would be quicker - it'd be an interesting race!

[@steverogers1976]

So JB, mooring to those front lines doesn't put undo stress on them? I've been mooring to the front pylons.

[@JoyriderTV]

We've been doing it for a very long time and we haven't had any negative effects. I wouldn't do it with waves though.

[@kaimccallum3317]

First

[@JoyriderTV]

Bravo!

[@aph4210]

the bot hasnt reached it yet

[@ProstetnikV]

You didn't ride a Hobie? You lose!!!

[@JoyriderTV]

You know it!