Canon R5 II vs R5C - Dynamic Range

[@presise]

Josh.... you are the first one who actually did it. Thank you!

[@Josh_Sattin]

You are very welcome. Dynamic range was what I was most curious about with the R5II. More tests to come!

[@StarLightDotPhotos]

THIS IS WHAT I HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR!! THANK YOU, JOSH!!

[@Josh_Sattin]

You're welcome! Thanks for checking out the video!

[@thepaulsuarez]

Thanks for taking the time to do such a thoughtful/deep look at dynamic range with those two cameras.

[@Josh_Sattin]

You are very welcome. Thanks for watching!

[@joshblck1]

Thanks for the video, I’ve been really looking for this comparison! I actually liked the R5C’s image more, didn’t feel as “sharp” to me and the colors looked more neutral. In Gerald’s review of the R5c he mentioned if you turn the in-camera NR to medium that it has a really great NR algorithm that gave him up to 12.8 stops of DR. I wonder how that would compare to the R5ii! I’ve noticed a lot of negativity towards the R5C due to its “low” DR but this video shows that it’s DR is actually pretty good!

[@Josh_Sattin]

You're welcome. Glad you found the video. I actually made a whole video testing out the noise reduction settings on the R5C a while ago: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mKiYn5ukrc6EhcU

[@TylerEdwards]

Great tests, Josh! I'm sure this will be super helpful to a ton of people!

[@Josh_Sattin]

Thanks Tyler! I hope so!

[@WildHorseProductions]

Thanks for making this video! I am an R5c owner and glad to see it holds up well! I really think they can do more with it by updating the firmware.

[@Josh_Sattin]

You're welcome! Yeah R5C is a solid camera. I don't think we'll get many more big updates for the R5C, but it would be cool!

[@ModernPianoStudio]

I couldn't tell the difference in 8KRAW that was the test I was waiting for thanks Josh!

[@Josh_Sattin]

You're welcome. Thanks for watching!

[@OrdinaryFilmmaker]

Well done Josh. The only question you didn't answer is the one I m curious of myself, SRAW. Despite its name, it isn't raw: it's a downsampled version of raw, but we lose. lot of the benefits of it. But when looking at the R5 II charts at the back of the manual, it encodes with twice the information. Does that translate to being more detailed than 4K fine? I hope to answer that question this weekend. A downsampled 8K raw does have my interest, but for twice the file size, it needs to deliver the results.

[@Josh_Sattin]

Thanks! Canon hasn't elaborated much on what exactly SRAW is, atleast what I can find. It is not oversampled from 8K, but has the same full frame field of view. CVP mentions this in their video. It is "raw" in the sense that you have raw controls in post, but isn't a real raw. Cameras that shoot raw will read out the sensor 1-1. If a camera does raw in a lower resolution it has to crop in. Nikon is doing something similar to Canon's SRAW where they have a full frame 4K raw mode. When I asked Nikon about how they were doing this they said it was proprietary. I will definitely be doing more testing on the raw modes and especially with SRAW and SRAW Light.

[@loudandclearmedia]

@@Josh_Sattin I can't be the only one that gets irked by the use of "RAW" in the nomenclature when describing anything short of a sensor dump or nearly a sensor dump. Debayered RAW like BRAW or wavelet compressed RAW like R3D I can get behind calling them that, but there needs to be a line drawn somewhere and perhaps that should be short of multiple processing passes to hit a certain field of view while not using all of the pixels. Thats pretty far from a sensor dump.

[@rodrigodeantonibrito]

I use an R3 and an R6 Mark II for photos and videos, along with a Red Komodo. Honestly, after some color grading and color correction, it’s almost impossible to tell whether it’s from the R3, R6, or R5. Paying almost $5K for the R5 Mark II, with its overheating problems and poor battery, isn't worth it for me. For that money, I’d like a camera that can shoot photos with decent autofocus and, if needed, record a 40-minute talking head under the sun. The R3 and R6 Mark II can do that, with the R3 offering awesome 6K video. For me, the R6 Mark II is by far the best bang for the buck.

[@highlyunprofessionalreviews]

Agreed. It’s a great camera.

[@garethjones1]

The R6 mark 2 would be perfect if it had clean hdmi out 😭

[@cjm8160]

True. Depending on what you’re doing, the R5 MK II may be expensive overkill. I still like to see what technology is on the market though.

[@rodrigodeantonibrito]

@@garethjones1 Yes!!

[@goodtimezproductionz]

@@garethjones1it’s dirty?

[@TomislavMoze]

Josh great video as always, glad you are doing those tests cause most of us are to lazy to do them ourselves 😂 Too bad KZbin compression changes the image so much in some cases. To me the strangest thing is different color science depending on the codec in the R5mk2 comparing it to c70 in my case was confusing at first since c70 doesn’t do that. I have to admit seeing this R5c really holds up much better than I thought. And now I definitely want to see a proper tests of R1 cause if that sensor is close to the R3 that camera could be incredible.

[@onlysublime]

I think it would've helped if you mentioned that the R5C was an improvement on the R5 in terms of dynamic range which surprised a lot of people because it was assumed that the R5C was simply an R5 with a built-in fan and additional ports. As for the R5ii, another KZbinr (the guy that does covers cameras and their ability to record VR content) showed that the R5ii has very clean video at ISO 4000. So it's different than the 3200 ISO that the R5C is.

[@BrianSellers]

Super-detailed tests, man! I got an R5II a few days ago and with the brutally hot and humid weather we’ve been having in Virginia this week, I’ve done a good bit of overheating testing with it. As a wedding filmmaker, I was actually concerned with its overheating in 4K-SRAW and 4K Fine, when sitting on a tripod in direct sunlight and about 90-degree weather. But the good news is that today it was 95 outside (35C), and putting it in regular 4K (not Fine) it had no problem shooting continuously for 45 minutes in direct sunlight. It did get to 3/10 heat bars, but really topped out there and didn’t increase past that. 😮‍💨 Are you planning on doing (more rigorous) overheating testing?

[@Josh_Sattin]

Yes, I definitely plan on doing some run time and overheating tests. I have a few other videos to make before then but I am really curious myself because I am in North Carolina.

[@iabdulhaseeb]

I'm confused basically I have plan of getting R6 mark 2 just 4 months used with RF 24-105 4L and RF 100 2.8 + 256 GB card 300MB/s In 3465 USD. On the other hand R5mark2 is 4265 USD. I also don't have any lens. There are 2 options first is buy the 2 lens with R62 or 2nd option is R52 with Rf50 1.8... later on I'll upgrade my lens 24-105.. is it worth to sacrifice more money. I want 4,5 years future safe. If you're in my place what you'll do?? Is it good offer or suggest me any other option!! I don't have any gear now .. I used to have 5dmark3 in 2016... But I changed my field as currently working in the restaurant business industry. I want to target small restaurants and small businesses for social media and products photography, as I have planned to give free 30 sec, 1 min reels for Snapchat, tiktok and Instagram. Just to build my portfolio on Instagram and other platforms. Plus I'll do street photography as I'm living an expat in Saudi Arabia. I belong to Pakistan.

[@BrianSellers]

@@iabdulhaseebDate the body; marry the lens. I’d always invest in better glass first, (a) because it’ll last you longer and (b) because the R6II is a fantastic camera for just about anything, photo or video. But you know your needs better than anyone! Best of luck. 😊

[@iabdulhaseeb]

@@BrianSellers I don't know exactly, I just want want to secure my future, that's why I'm confused

[@StarLightDotPhotos]

Do you have a C70? I would love to see how the MK II compares with the C70 too.

[@Josh_Sattin]

Unfortunately I do not have a C70.

[@lecolintube]

@Josh_Sattin Thanks so much for these tests. Out of curiosity are you able to use any Canon R5 test footage from your previous videos to compare along side the R5C and R5ii in these comparisons? (Even just the 8K Raw and 4K fine)? Once again, thanks so much!

[@Josh_Sattin]

You're welcome! I only compare footage when I can shoot the cameras at the same time, with the same (or similar) lenses in the same conditions.

[@lecolintube]

@@Josh_Sattin Thanks so much again! So …You don’t happen to have access to an R5 by any chance do you? 😜 In all seriousness though, I wonder, a head to head against these three cameras might be pretty interesting (granted a lot of work on your behalf!), but esp for all the current R5 owners out there. Uniquely I think you’re really the only one doing these sorts of in-depth test and comparisons, which are really helpful and valuable to the community. Once again, thank you so so much! 🧡🕊️

[@Josh_Sattin]

You're welcome. Unfortunately I don't have a R5.

[@mr.sugorock4180]

Hi Josh, first of all, great comparison and thank you for taking time doing this. I am R5C owner and am curious to find out what was your base ISO setting on R5C on this test. I recall R5C retains better shadow details when base iso is set to 3200.

[@Josh_Sattin]

You're welcome. I mentioned this in the video but I shot both cameras at their base ISO of 800 for everything. Thanks for watching!

[@mr.sugorock4180]

Thanks for your reply! Keep up the good work!

[@csound55]

Correct - with R5C iso set at 800 and base iso set at 3200 there is a big improvement in shadow noise but bright highlights will get clipped. No increase in dynamic range but shifting the sensitivity to darker areas of an image. This is a unique and very useful feature with the R5C for prioritising shadow detail in low light situations without requiring a change to aperture settings. Very few R5C owners seem to know about it.

[@PiingpeiPictures]

Thank you Josh, I think I'll hold on to my R5C

[@Josh_Sattin]

You're welcome. Thanks for watching!

[@ScandinavianCoward]

Can't thank you enough for this video, Josh! Is there a C70 video comparison in the works? 😅

[@Josh_Sattin]

You are very welcome. Unfortunately I don't have a C70.

[@dustinschmidtphoto]

Thanks for doing this test Josh, very insightful.

[@Josh_Sattin]

You're welcome. Thanks for stopping by!

[@80-80.]

Yes! Been waiting so badly for this one.

[@petercharlesrees]

Hi Josh, excellent, been waiting for this. I'm super interested in a comparison between 4k Sraw 60fps vs 4k standard 60fps, both line skipped it seems but from what I can gather the SRaw is coming out very strongly? Also is the crop mode in 4K on the R2 still downsampled from 5.1K as it was on the R5? Can't seem to find info on that. Hanging out for your next deep dive great work. cheers

[@Josh_Sattin]

Thanks! I have so much testing and analysis to do on this camera. And yes, I want to explore the higher frame rate stuff eventually. As I said in the video, the SRAW is very intriguing. I am not sure, but I do think the APSC crop is oversampled like the R5. There is no fine or non-fine mode when you are in crop mode.

[@RyuBlaze24]

nice vid man. subbed. nice to see new creators

[@Josh_Sattin]

Thanks for the support!

[@macchoudhry5868]

Thanks, Josh for the preliminary testing

[@Josh_Sattin]

You're welcome. Thanks for watching!

[@danielgollner1390]

Thank you for taking the effort for doing those tests. I think the time is come, i will switch back to canon after 6 Years in the Sony World :)

[@Josh_Sattin]

You're welcome. Thanks for watching!

[@adamfalgout6601]

If you edit the C2 profile, and change it from Neutral color to Production Camera, it should move more toward that green shift instead of magenta.

[@mrkanebrands3634]

fact, if you dont do that is not a fair versus hahaha

[@cyrusperry6482]

Thanks again for all your hard work and trying to get us the best non-biased test results! Once I sell my Red KX I'll be ordering the R5 II through your link 😆

[@Josh_Sattin]

You're very welcome. I appreciate your support!

[@MatthewPolack]

Thanks Josh.. one of the big bits of info I'm trying to get an answer on with the mkii is run time/overheating? Are there formats where one can film with it for a wedding or concert and not have to worry about the camera shutting down?

[@Josh_Sattin]

You're welcome. I haven't tested run times and overheating yet, but I hope too soonish.

[@MortyMizrahi]

Well, seems like you dont need to ETTR but WAAAY safer too...That overexposed footage looked crazy good brought back!

[@MichaelDrowley]

Thanks Josh. Like for like (if not pushing beyond their sweet spots) I doubt anyone would be able tell the difference in a blind test. I like the look of the log3 better from the R5C but possibly just had a touch more contrast (shadow compression) as compared with the R5ii image. Would love to see this same thing between R5 and R5ii at second base iso of 3200 which I have been predominantly shooting with on the R5 for a while now.

[@Josh_Sattin]

You’re welcome Michael! Yeah these cameras are closer than I thought they would be.

[@benjhaisch]

Wild how much different the colors look. Almost looked like 2015 Sony vs 2015 Canon.

[@Josh_Sattin]

Yeah crazy how the colors change so much in different codecs on the same camera. I saw some weird stuff with Nikon's 4K raw mode too.

[@TJ-po9ol]

I tested 4K SRAW Light vs 4K Fine; the SRAW Light created tons of artifacts vs the 4K fine, which created none. It was extremely apparent when viewing at 100%, it also had jagged edges on the houses from my city scape shot in the test. Maybe the standard SRAW is a lot better, idk.

[@Josh_Sattin]

Thanks for sharing your experiences. I need to test out the SRAW vs SRAW Light.

[@RandumbTech]

Really great analysis Josh appreciate you taking the time to do it. Your Mac must be on 🔥 with all that 8k footage! Just goes to show how good the original R5 was. Feels like they could have just added CLOG2 to it via firmware. Sadly, that doesn’t make any $$, so no incentive for Canon to do it 😢

[@Josh_Sattin]

Thanks! Yeah my computer did not like all of this. The 8K H.265 was actually worse for playback than the 8K raw.

[@mathiaserichsen8177]

Thanks for the video ❤ I have a Sony A7SIII now and I’m pretty happy with the video results from that camera, but as I’ve been doing a lot more photography lately AND I have the opportunity to buy a new camera system this month (for a commercial project in December) it’s time to get a newer- better camera 🥳 What camera could be as good or better than the A7SIII for video, with really good autofocus, high DR and have at least 24MP photos? (Not more than $8000 for just the camera, so most cameras are possible) Would the R5 II be a good contender, or maybe LUMIX S5IIX, Nikon Z6III or Z8, or Sony A9III? 🤷🏼‍♂️ Hope you’ll be able to help a stranger out 😅

[@jackmen4]

Hey Josh, is there such a thing as 4k RAW on the R5C or RAW is always full 8k?

[@Josh_Sattin]

There isn't a 4K raw option on the R5C. You can shoot in S35 raw which is 5.9K.

[@Xirpzy]

SRaw does look interresting. Sadly I've seen that insane ibis wobble in some reviews that the R5 has. Sad that canon only managed to tame it slightly on the R5 II and not completely eliminate it.

[@forrwhat]

Very informative. I wish you would have also included a file size comparison for each of the 8K raw settings.

[@MomosMovingWorlds]

Thank you for the video! Buying a new camera in a month. Still torn between R5C and R5 II. R5C on Walmart Canada is C$4,099 vs R5C on Canon Canada is C$4,499 (after discount). Any thoughts why Walmart is C$400 cheaper?

[@UrbanAnimeLounge]

This the one i been waiting for

[@Josh_Sattin]

Awesome. Thanks for watching!

[@Guillaume9]

Hello, on a Zila 21 the R5II in c-log 2 has arround 16 stop of DR max against 13.5 on the R5C C-log3. But in SNR two the R5II is arround 12 and the R5C a bit less. The interest of the R5II is much on the dynamic range before denoise and with recent neural denoise and preferences the R5II give much possibilities. In my use case I prefer not denoise when I can and c-log 2 is better in that regard, the C-log 3 being a c-log 2 with dr cut in the blacksit is very bad for auto exposure and it was the only option on devices that are used that way by some!

[@zecabmiranda]

Great vid. Thanks. A question off topic. Did you test this new battery of the Mk II on the R5C? If so, how does it works? I would love to know if correct the R5C battery weakness. Cheers

[@Josh_Sattin]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/g5Opq3iKbbRkh7M

[@vinhsanity]

Did they build in the overheating function into the firmware?

[@PeterVoorhuis-s9k]

Hi Josh, do you also see a delay in the viewfinder with the R5 mark 2?. I don.t see it on the display only in de VF.

[@Josh_Sattin]

I just checked and didn't notice any lag in the EVF on my copy.

[@PeterVoorhuis-s9k]

Is this in video mode? I don’t see it in photo mode only in video mode.

[@Josh_Sattin]

@@PeterVoorhuis-s9k I haven't taken a photo with my R5II yet. Haha. So yes, video mode.

[@firpofutbol]

Bro are you buying and keeping all of these cameras? Crazy 💰💰 for a KZbin channel of 36k subscribers. Your videos are top quality though, like I feel you should have at least 200k subscribers.

[@Leivafilms]

Thanks Josh, great job!!

[@Josh_Sattin]

You're welcome. Thanks for watching!

[@australia-ukraine]

Thank you for your video. I'm not sure that the R5 Mark II's video looks better than the R5C's. Yes, sometimes the R5C is a little bit noisier, but overall, I prefer the picture from the R5C.

[@Josh_Sattin]

You're welcome. Thanks for watching!

[@kylehessling2679]

Was really hoping for it to be an R5 with a c70 style DGO sensor on full frame but maybe I should be happy they didn’t do enough to switch me back from Sony lol I used to shoot raw on my old R5 to use clog 2 and those files look VERY similar to when I would interpret those Raw R5 files…granted those were like 10 gig per clip and these are compressed, was just hoping they’d bring some more advancement in DR with as long as it’s been!

[@mattdawgpro]

Thanks for the work here! Have you tested Light Raw at all? I’m a long time Red user that just picked up an R5ii and would prefer to shoot a compressed raw format if it’s at least on par with their H.265 or H.264 codecs.

[@Josh_Sattin]

You're welcome! I haven't tested the Raw light but I plan to. Thanks for watching!

[@misterolot]

Thanks for the video, very useful!

[@Josh_Sattin]

You're welcome. Thanks for watching!

[@daniellugo1]

the fact i've been watching your videos without even subscribing for over a year should tell you something

[@moorememoriesvideo7070]

It tells me, that you’re a fan. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@ReachFilms]

About time!! haha thx man

[@zechenwei1139]

Hi Josh! Could you please test whether the R5ii's raw recording offers non-destructive iso/WB adjustments in DaVinci Resolve? (like you have done for NRAW!). Thank you so much for the great content as always!

[@Josh_Sattin]

You're welcome. I plan on doing a deep dive into the raw codecs in the R5 II when I can find some time.

[@bobdrummondfilms5402]

Am I crazy that I don't give a sh*t about "dynamic range?" If you have any idea what you are doing, you will be in the ballpark, and if your highlights are going to clip, so be it. I care that the color workflow is consistent. If you're on Canon, and using two cameras, you want to be able to use C-Log2 + CinemaGaut. So you can use the same trendy LUT across the board. I could not care less if the C70 has an extra .5 stop in the highlights. That's a stat on a piece of paper.

[@TJ-po9ol]

Highlight & shadow rolloff is more important for a cinematic image. High dynamic range cameras though generally have better rolloff.

[@loudandclearmedia]

@@TJ-po9ol well said, TJ. I don't give a hoot about total dynamic range either but care A LOT about how those highlights approach the white point. A great ecosystem to point out with this is Blackmagic, as their cameras do great with the highlight rolloff, but since they have very noisy shadows the total dynamic range is much lower (~11 stops) than the very lovely image otherwise suggests. Oh, and my experince with the C70 is that it's much better at this than the current R5 variant cameras too, by at LEAST a stop at base ISO.

[@ejimihe8010]

Just a reminder that 99.8% of regular people don't care about these things. They just watch videos online & move along..

[@RayValdezPhotography]

99.8% aren't professional shooters. Since these are tools its nice to know the limits of them. Higher DR and less noise in any camera can add a bit more ease and flexibility in your work flow.

[@iiSup3rior]

But it helps. Most people see other people's work and videos and want that same look.

[@MikeMena]

wow. I got r5c. Was tempted by CLOG2... but, I'm not sure there is enough benefit to switching. I also like the way the r5c autofocus behaves. I find it "not as good" but highly predictable, and this is my preference (i don't want it changing faces or pulling focus unless I tell it too). Seems like the r5c is going to be my cam for a while longer. (QUESTION: if I were to get a second cam... should I just get another r5c or an r5ii? THAT is my real question. I'm leaning toward another r5c cuz switching operating systems really confuses me, even when I'm just switching between r5c and my old r5.))

[@Josh_Sattin]

Hey Mike. I have a lot more testing to do before I can start making recommendations. As it stands right now, I can see a use for both the R5C and R5II and am personally glad I own both.

[@pickleydoo]

I got a second R5C because color matching my first one to the R5 was a real pain. I think if you are doing two cam shoots and need to match color, it would be better to have two of the same camera. It’s also cheaper than an R5 Mark II! That said, the R5 Mark II seems to have some of the AF features of the R5C that the R5 didn’t, namely Face Only AF and settings to make the rack focusing faster or slower. I haven’t had time to use mine yet but I’ll report back with my thoughts.

[@thefelixwu]

c70 with better DR is the perfect match. it has all the ui as well so it complement it well. unless of cos you need 8k.

[@matthewqin3672]

Thank you for the great test, I believe the significance of the R52 lies in its internal recording capability with CLog2, which provides smaller file sizes and higher dynamic range, allowing users accustomed to shooting in log to achieve even more. Why not compare the CLog2 of the R52 with the CLog3 of the R5C? I think for many people, shooting in RAW and then converting to log can introduce some workflow challenges, especially in lower-budget projects.

[@matthewqin3672]

I mean in Latitude Tests

[@Josh_Sattin]

I did compare those in this video. I compared them in 8K and 4K in the window test and 4K in the latitude test.

[@davidjorozco]

Josh appreciate you doing however you’ve mislabeled the file types (R5ii/XF EVC S & R5C/HEVC) and I wanted to clarify which you actually used? R5 ii can shoot XF AVC S or XF HEVC. The R5C shoots XF AVC. Sorry to be particular but I’m about to test this out as well and want to see if I can replicate the same results. Thanks!

[@Josh_Sattin]

I actually labeled them correctly. R5II was shot in XF-HEVC S which is H.265 10-bit 422 R5C was shot in MP4 (HEVC) which is H.265 10-bit 422 Check the specs here if you don't have the cameras in your hand page 2 - s7d1.scene7.com/is/content/canon/EOS-R5-final-Mark-II-Specspdf page 11 - downloads.canon.com/nw/camera/products/cinema-eos/x-eos-r5-c/EOSR5C_specifications.pdf Thanks for watching!

[@davidjorozco]

@@Josh_SattinI stand corrected, appreciate you sharing that!

[@rogerdc7136]

@@Josh_Sattin but in XF AVC you get better image quality, or not? in the r5c

[@joonassild]

Thank you for the fantastic breakdown! Any chance you would be willing to share the raw footage for self-testing? I'm happy to provide the hosting for the files if anyone else is also interested.

[@scottmh]

Awesome thanks for this review. How are the r5ii and z8 different in terms of IBIS, AF and videos files? Which one grades better?

[@marcosuozzi]

Thank you Josh 👏👏👏🤗

[@Josh_Sattin]

You're welcome. Thanks for watching!

[@lukapogo]

Very interesting. To me, from the tests you've shown in the first half of the video, the R5C image looks arguably more natural than the ii. in the 2nd test,, on the other hand, i'd have to heavily disagree with you on the two cameras looking similar. I'd call the R5C image borderline unusable in comparison. And then, even more confusingly, the latitude test subverts all that again. Very weird Regarding the light chart, would it be possible to build a DIY one using cheapo ND filters and an older LCD monitor with the LCD panel removed?

[@Josh_Sattin]

Yeah like I said, the results were very interesting. Also please keep in mind when I made this analysis it was done on my computer. KZbin compression can really mess with things. But like I said in the video, the R5II does have slightly more dynamic range but there are a lot of different ways to record in the camera.

[@hugnos]

Hey Josh, is it possible to compare the R5 Mark II to the R3?

[@Josh_Sattin]

Unfortunately I don't have a R3.

[@hugnos]

@Josh_Sattin, is it possible to use your old files to do this? 😅 I'm still wondering if the R3 isn't the best option because of 4k60 oversampled in all modes. Another piece of information that's impossible to find is whether the R5 II Raw has a cropped mode. And thank you! In my opinion, you have some of the best reviews on KZbin.

[@Josh_Sattin]

Thank you for the kind words! I only compare footage when I can shoot the cameras at the same time, with the same (or similar) lenses in the same conditions. The R5II does not have a cropped raw mode.

[@hugnos]

@Josh_Sattin, do you agree that the R3 is still holding up very well against the R5c and R5II? I do have the R3 and the R5 MK I, and I think that for the price, upgrading to the R5II with new batteries, it's better to invest in storage and use the R3 in RAW.

[@Josh_Sattin]

Like I said, I can't compare two cameras that I don't have at the same time.

[@rüzgarınadı]

Thank you

[@Josh_Sattin]

You're welcome. Thanks for watching!

[@jimmystewartuk]

I wish Canon engineers would take your video as evidence that it is very much possible to fit CLOG2 into the R5C, even if the dynamic range is not as wide… by doing so at least the transform workflow would make it match even more seamlessly with other cameras shooting Clog2

[@Josh_Sattin]

I'm sure they have their own technical tests and requirements for what meets their standards. I do wish they put Clog2 in all of their cameras though.

[@shridexdigi1982]

I appreciate all the hardwork you put into these camera comparisons. Please if possible I will love to see a comparison between Panasonic S5IIX vs Sony FX3 vs Canon R5C

[@Josh_Sattin]

Thank you! Unfortunately I don't have a S5IIX or FX3. I did make a detailed comparison of the FX3 and R5C though: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aqXTc6WEl8tja5I

[@squidward3333]

With the S5II, it comes down to autofocus quality differences. Canon and Sony are much more tacky and versatile. Lumix still doesn't have photo cameras that can compete with those brands either. If you're a video shooter with little need for advanced subject tracking, the S5II is the deal of a lifetime with codecs and V log L, and the new Sigma lenses are tack sharp, way less expensive, and barely have any focus breathing.

[@shridexdigi1982]

@@squidward3333 my interest mainly video. And if the Panasonic autofocus is as good as Fujifilm xt4. That's plenty good enough for Me

[@dushyantbhatt9345]

great video,. keep it up ..... why is there soo much banding in R5c footage ??

[@Josh_Sattin]

Thanks! It's just how the sensor handles underexposed parts in the shadows when you raise the exposure.

[@dushyantbhatt9345]

@@Josh_Sattin so best is overexpose 1-2 stops ?? what would you say ??

[@Josh_Sattin]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/fmjRlYWBaJyNobc

[@alansarpy]

as a sony shooter... I envy the fact Canon shooters can SEE the LCD Screen when shooting outside ;)

[@colourberry]

I'm seeing more detail on the R5C in the roof of the house on the right, on the R5mk2 that area is just blur. Same with the grass in the second shot.

[@69motorpsycho]

Same r5c seems sharper in almost every codec 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@colourberry]

@69motorpsycho He did say he lowered the sharpness to the lower setting so I'm not sure I trust the comparison that was done. I'm sure the new camera would be awesome.

[@69motorpsycho]

@@colourberryyes I saw that, was it lowered to zero on both cams?

[@gavthane]

Hey Josh, there’s one thing that I’d really love to know that I haven’t seen mentioned yet… is the SRAW 12bit or 10bit?

[@Josh_Sattin]

I'm pretty sure SRAW is 12-bit based on the language on Canon's product page - www.usa.canon.com/shop/p/eos-r5-mark-ii?srsltid=AfmBOoqHPhbhpD0O_V6Qt0H1v19adleHBzB0hwcPTd_T-L8rUgNSXO99

[@bomdaddy4185]

How about 4K 60p and 120p slow? Can you see the diffrence? As i know... R5m2 is still Pixel binning...

[@Josh_Sattin]

I haven't tested that yet, but I will.

[@902apache]

I’ve got a firmware 1.0.8.1 on my r5c but I can find c-log2. Where I can find this options?

[@Josh_Sattin]

The R5C does not shoot Clog2. I explain that in this video.

[@902apache]

@@Josh_Sattin Sorry:( I’m not a native English speaker, but I saw the clog2 and started to search it in my camera:) And chat GPT says what r5c does clog2…

[@juggernot1556]

Should do a test on the r5c I’m 6k raw with a speedbooster man when I buy my r5c next year when the price drops even more then it already has I’m gonna do that test I feel that it’s the cameras sweet hidden feature if you got a speed booster at least

[@Josh_Sattin]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/m4K8n3-leNuAeLM

[@GreatCassian]

The pinkish color shift is bad. But the DR seems to be be much better. -5 stops and the shadow side is gone on R5; the R5II is fine. Now the question. Can you color correct the pink shift?

[@TJIzzy]

Yeah, just learn to use curves and subtract red from the shadows. Can also do a lum vs sat adjustment and roll it off smoothly

[@RockyColaFizz]

Great work. I know this takes a long time. I didn't think the Clog 2 vs Clog 3 interior shots in the Compressed codecs was close. The R52 looked quite a bit better.

[@Josh_Sattin]

Thanks! Well that's why I show you images so you can make the call. Also please keep in mind when I made this analysis it was done on my computer. KZbin compression can really mess with things. Thanks for watching!

[@RockyColaFizz]

@@Josh_Sattin Absolutely. It also looks like the 4k SRAW has really good detail - almost as much as the 4k Fine, and it may have a bit better latitude in the shadows . Interesting indeed.

[@jacksonlevlog9963]

Would love to see a comparison between this and the C70, im in the middle between both of them atm

[@Josh_Sattin]

Unfortunately I don't have a C70.

[@jacksonlevlog9963]

@@Josh_Sattin awww :(((

[@wxjunkie]

Honestly, the cameras seem so close that watching Josh's older comparison of C70 to R5C will reveal a lot.

[@jacksonlevlog9963]

@@wxjunkie wait actually a good idea 👍

[@avx111]

To be honest I still don't know what to do with this information. Wait for C400 reviews I guess?

[@jaymills1720]

R5c looked nicer to my eye regardless of data

[@kenduejones]

Facts

[@joshblck1]

Came here to say this, the R5c looked a good bit more “cinematic” to me.

[@80-80.]

I don't agree with the majority here, I think the R5 II is clearly more detailed and cleaner in the shadows. On top of that, there is no banding. But 60p is a weakness compared to the competition. Hoping for an update with 4K 60p Fine, in a year.

[@ZToT]

Gerald said that the clog2 option in case of r5c, r3 is just a placeholder and it is actually a clog(1). Is this a misinformation? Due to this video it is looking like a real clog2. Another topic. It is little bit shame that Canon still cannot break the ~7.5 latitude stops even w/ real clog2 meanwhile almost every other company can. (However due to cined the canon r3 has 8.5 stops in latitude test so seems like the r3 is the video king) And Josh! Huge thanks for your tests!

[@csound55]

Gerald Undone corrected that - R5C raw is interpreted as c-log 2. It was DaVinci Resolve incorrectly showing clog and clog 2 as the same.

[@leventebaumann6001]

I have R3. Sensor is good but ibis wobble is there. No false color, No Clog2, No punch in until recording, no tally light etc... Professional video capabilities were deliberately not included....

[@ZToT]

@@leventebaumann6001 So will you plan to switch your r3 to the r5ii?

[@TJIzzy]

@@leventebaumann6001 Dont feel bad, false color in the r5 ii takes forever to toggle on & off, especially if you have zebras enabled. You have to disable zebras, then view assist lut, enable false color. Reverse that to then get back to not using false color.

[@EpicNovA97]

Thanks for pushing this out mate. Looks like I’m selling the R5C 🙃🙃

[@Josh_Sattin]

You're welcome. Thanks for watching!

[@loudandclearmedia]

@EpicNovA97 what was the clincher for you? If anything, this video made my future between the two models even less clear. They do seem very very similar aside from just a few things.

[@KarlevidProductions]

⁠@@loudandclearmediayea same, way to small improvements in the R5II to loose all the R5C cinema benefits

[@EpicNovA97]

@@loudandclearmedia I switched from the R5 to the C mainly for the dynamic range improvements and it didn’t disappoint. Even having to rig the camera up every time I used it and the fact it was just so much more effort to use than the original R5, the image quality upgrade was worth it. If the R5II was anywhere close to the dynamic range performance of the R5C that would’ve sealed it for me and it’s surpassed my expectations I think. I get it’s a brand new sensor so it’s a little unfair to compare but I feel like my workflow as a hybrid shooter has definitely been disrupted since switching to the R5C. Even just switching from video to photo for example. Takes about 6 seconds and taking photos when you’re already rigged up for video is not ideal. Not to mention losing AF tracking in 4k 120 and Bluetooth for wireless recording on the DJI RS3. Some of these things I wasn’t prepared for and I guess that’s on me but literally everyone marketed the R5C and an R5 but with way better video and that just wasn’t quite the whole reality for me at least. The only things I can see that the R5C still has over the R5II is like shutter angle, more functional waveforms and false colour and the inbuilt fan. But to think in 3 and a half years of using the R5 I made it overheat maybe 2 times.

[@loudandclearmedia]

@@EpicNovA97 Thats fair. It seems like the R5ii is the right camera for you. There are a couple big factors that make the R5C better at this time for me than R5ii. Chief among them is that I already own a pair of R5Cs. If that weren't true and I was starting from scratch I'd likely buy the R5ii, although I admit the wide-angle wobble IBIS which apparently still hasn't been fixed would give me pause. I'd rather have the R5Cs pinned design. The fan isn't super important to me because I'm not doing a lot of long-form, but I'll be the first to admit it's a nice peace of mind to have. But yeah, as someone who already owns a pair of R5Cs, I haven't yet seen anything compelling enough to get me to spend however many thousands of dollars to change my kit around for the new model. The comparison images on Josh's video showed that, for my work, the two cameras in practical use are indistinguishable.

[@hai.d.nguyen]

Does the R5ii overheat in 60fps? 🙏🏻

[@Josh_Sattin]

I haven’t tested it yet.

[@milestrevelyan]

Shot a wedding with two R52's yesterday in 4k 50 fps. One of the R52' s had reach 3 bars by the end of the ceremony. Approx 20 minutes. The other was fine. I think the one that heated up was in a much warmer part of the ceremony room. Both cameras in auto temp high. In winter the cameras will be good hand warmers.

[@manueldiegovanderlanden4519]

Josh, have a look at this, its in German, play it at 0.75 speed with English sub for if you don't speak German, comparing the video quality of R5, R5c, R5mk2, thanks for what you do

[@manueldiegovanderlanden4519]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/qoXZnWCmi5qArdU&si=anvW3LQeJkrLy0ND

[@RayValdezPhotography]

I dont think the SRAW is line skipped. It might be the hack to get oversampled 4k 60. all tests show it being sharper as or sharper than fine.

[@Josh_Sattin]

🤷🏻‍♂️ I haven’t tested the SRAW against the non fine modes yet. I did hear that the SRAW is not oversampled so it might be a difference in noise reduction of raw vs not raw. Also how a camera does raw without the full resolution and not cropping is strange. Nikon does this too. I asked Nikon how they do it and they said it was proprietary.

[@RayValdezPhotography]

@@Josh_Sattin Its probably not true raw but keeps the same type of flexibility and information. You could do it with photos for the longest time I guess with video it was always hard to do or pointless until resolutions higher than 4k became common on prosumer cameras

[@TJIzzy]

I shot and compared sraw light to 4k fine intra and the sraw was softer. Sraw also had weird artifacts it created. I havent tried the normal sraw, because the bit rate is high enough I will just shoot 8k raw or 4k fine.

[@RayValdezPhotography]

@@TJIzzy Gerald undone did a test and it showed that it did look weird, it was sharper than the normal 4K but not has sharp and different from the 8k raw. I guess they have some new type of compression.

[@presise]

Looks like the R5C can handle clog2.

[@loudandclearmedia]

Either that or R5ii can't handle it. But yeah, there's no reason when they perform that closely for one to have CLOG2 but not the other, especially when the one which does have CLOG2 is not marketed as the "cinema" camera.

[@presise]

@@loudandclearmedia exactly

[@JericGambon]

Why is the r5ii shadow green?

[@Josh_Sattin]

🤷🏻‍♂️

[@loudandclearmedia]

Because @@Josh_Sattin doesn't like Christmas.

[@BluSonicX]

R5C hase CLOG2 now? Didnt know that.

[@Josh_Sattin]

The R5C does NOT have Clog2. I explain this in the video.

[@UrbanAnimeLounge]

Seems the r6 Mark II sensor characteristics take over for the underexposure side on the r5 II in some of those modes

[@rodrigodeantonibrito]

R6 mk ii is the best bang for the buck. All the canon footage look very similar to me

[@loudandclearmedia]

@@rodrigodeantonibrito this. When the R5ii content started coming out, my first thought was "meh...it looks like a canon." Not to take anything away from that look as it's a lovely one, but the heavens certainly hadn't parted nor the angels sung like the marketing had been suggesting.

[@colourberry]

I thought the R5C had Clog 2 also??

[@colourberry]

@@muriloyamanaka Cool. Thats where to test the two against each other.

[@Josh_Sattin]

The R5C can not shoot Clog2. I explain this in the video.

[@colourberry]

@@Josh_Sattin I heard you say it but I was sure it got Clog2 in one of the many updates along the way and another commentor also said it can in RAW mode.

[@demiphotomode]

My brother, Latitude tests are not the same as Dynamic Range

[@Josh_Sattin]

Please rewatch the video. I explain why I do them and how it’s part of evaluating the dynamic range of a camera.

[@heyimdevin]

Oh, cano fanboy, don’t be heartbroken.

[@anthonyk27]

@@heyimdevinHe is comparing 2 canon cameras…..you trying too hard to troll…..

[@adamfalgout6601]

11:01... he says it's pretty close..... It's not even comparable, the Mk II blows the R5C out of the water in cleaner, less noisy image.

[@Josh_Sattin]

Well that's why I show you images so you can make the call. Also please keep in mind when I made this analysis it was done on my computer. KZbin compression can really mess with things. Thanks for watching!

[@n3o3x]

take notes Gerald Undone!

[@raybailey1651]

Beside the battery life it does not make any sense for R5II especially for online media

[@MartinMonkDotCom]

Pretty poor results for both cameras, if we're brutally honest. Canon is unable to build a high-Megapixel sensor that has decent shadow latitude in video. At least the R5II does not exhibit the - frankly embarassing - banding in underexposed areas that you get with the R5C & R5. The shifting in colours across the various recording modes is another head-scratcher.

[@SamA-kl6pi]

Compared to what, exactly?

[@MartinMonkDotCom]

@@SamA-kl6pi Not every point needs to be made in comparison to something else. Of course I'm not going to say compared to an Alexa, because it cost 10x as much. But the R5 range are not cheap cameras and four+ years in between generations is not a short time period.

[@onlysublime]

If you can't get amazing results with the R5ii you really need to stop using cameras.

[@agelesspics4556]

😅😅😅

[@leventebaumann6001]

Sadly yes...

[@zechenwei1139]

Damn…if you used CST to correct the images and only touched contrast and saturation, then one of the cameras is definitely lying about the colors 😂 that’s a GINORMOUS difference in terms of colors, especially when you used CST which does a superb job at matching different camera brands!

[@zechenwei1139]

I’m talking about the first comparison

[@Leivafilms]

Where are 16 stops? Pure Marketing, the camera is awesome but It’s more or less like R5C without crop 4k raw and better battery.

[@Royalchaliceproduction]

I still think the image out of R5c looks better

[@GabrielScindian]

R52 has more detail in the shadows

[@jrcallahan506]

Anyone needs a 28-70 f2. Link me up. Mint condition hardly use. Pettit go because I’m moving to lumix.

[@Josh_Sattin]

Donation for the channel? 🤔

[@Hakku1403]

Why not comparing The R5 vs R5 MKII.. guess because it´s not looking good for the MK II ;)

[@Josh_Sattin]

Because I don't have a R5.

[@wxjunkie]

Well isn't the sensor the same in both the R5 and R5C? So Comparing the new Mark II vs R5C is essentially the same isn't it?

[@Hakku1403]

@@wxjunkie Sensor is the same, but the R5C has slightly better DR as the R5

[@loudandclearmedia]

@@Hakku1403 yeah, and to my knowledge I don't think anyone ever got to the bottom of why that is. Same sensor, same processor. The only explanation I've heard attempted is that the cinema operating system is responsible for the increased DR, but that sounds like a BS guess.

[@TomislavMoze]

@@loudandclearmedia its really simple r5c has better cooling with the lack of IBIS and a fan the difference is big, high temperatures can influence DR

[@GabrielScindian]

Advertised dynamic range is usually 2-3 stops less. Usable dynamic range is about 13.6-14 stops

[@leventebaumann6001]

Around 12....:)

[@pepsiq210200]

They are really close to each other. So Canon's BS about R5C sensor can not handle this DR is just a marketing. if they dont give us c log 2 for R5C after this, i lose my hope in them completely

[@TJIzzy]

Be honest, are you smuggling birds in there?