David Goyer talks FOUNDATION, Dark Knight trilogy, MAN OF STEEL & BLADE I Happy Sad Confused

David Goyer does not shy away from a challenge. Witness his current gig as the Executive Producer/director/show-runner for FOUNDATION. Now in its second season on Apple TV+ it's an awesome undertaking considering its pedigree as one of the seminal works of sci-fi by the great Isaac Asimov. But Goyer's resume is littered with such iconic properties. He was the writer of the BLADE trilogy, a huge creative force for the DARK KNIGHT trilogy, and so much more. David joins Josh to talk about it all including the one gigantic universe he'd still love to tackle. #happysadconfused #joshhorowitz #davidgoyer #foundation
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00:00 Introduction
01:09 Nick Fury
02:58 25 years of consistency
07:37 David Fincher's BLADE?
09:17 BLADE: TRINITY
11:18 Blade in the MCU
13:46 The Dark Knight trilogy
16:45 Casting Batman
19:23 Choosing Batman's villains
23:32 Future for Batman?
24:20 Man of Steel
28:09 Zod's death
30:39 A Man of Steel sequel
33:05 More superhero films?
35:11 FOUNDATION
47:36 Famous lines he's written
48:38 Geek out moments
50:41 His STAR WARS film with Guillermo del Toro

[@RocketRacoon717]

Man some of the dialogue in the dark knight was absolutely amazing, Alfred’s resounding bandit story, Bruce’s inner monologue after Rachel dies, not to mention any one of Joker’s quotable lines such a great movie. Writing, acting, directing all of it was so gorgeous

[@daneoman1000]

That dialogue was probably written by Jonathan Nolan, Goyer co-wrote the story for DK and DKR, which means he did the blueprint with Chris: this happens, then this happens, then this happens.

[@cereal_qilla]

gorgeous is right

[@ataketesamuel9542]

This dude is under-rated

[@jokerfleckcast3196]

Nah, he is rated fairly well. He is hit and miss though. Blade Trinity was AIDS, not sure what happened there, and he can't direct action that good, but he sure can write well. Will forever be grateful for Blade, Batman and Man of Steel.

[@gussygoro2469]

Goyer trashed the early DCEU with his terrible writing. Gen-x writers are too degenerate for comic book genre movies.

[@jokerfleckcast3196]

@@gussygoro2469 you sound like a james gunn rent boy

[@ted__ryan]

He's well known 😂

[@ted__ryan]

​@@gussygoro2469 no. It was the studio bro😂

[@Fanthomas1742]

I watched the making of Batman Begins and Its quite insane how they basically started in a garage with him and Nolan bouncing around ideas and then with a production designer to tell them if what they thought up is concievable.

[@cereal_qilla]

did u want them to be in a high rise board room instead? i dont get it. no offense

[@jokester117]

They should’ve done MOS standalone trilogy but WB wanted to rush it

[@qhorton6743]

Agreed. Also, DCEU's Bruce / Batman should've been around the same age as Clark / Superman. They tied their own hands behind their back by introducing an already aged Batman that already faced most of his rogue gallery, went thru various iterations of Robin, etc. No we didnt need another origin story but a Batman around the age of Pattinson's Batman would've been optimal, facing off against a Riddler and eventually a Deathstroke There was no need for a Batman v Superman right after introducing a brand new Superman to a brand new cinematic universe. It should've been fleshed out imo. Dont get me wrong.. hindsight is 20/20. We all lost our minds when we found out that BvS was going to become a reality. But as fans / consumers, most of us are very short-sighted and dont work in Hollywood, so its not our job to make the right business decision for the long haul

[@user-dm2nx4yu5o]

@@qhorton6743but also, what we got in MoS, BvS and ZSJL was actually quite good None of those movies were bad at all, they’re all actually very well made and the fact people chose to complain about certain aspects cause it’s not what they wanted or how they see these characters is just rather annoying

[@Chakranimated]

Mr. Goyer is an icon and his contribution to cinema is set in stone for the rest of time. We can only wish to accomplish what he has in his career. This was a delightful listen. I'm going to put Foundation on my watch list. Thank you Josh for such a great episode and thanks to Mr. Goyer for giving us such insight into his body of work.

[@Chakranimated]

@@kowmangbeltalowda7584 I wish I were paid to write KZbin comments. I'd be very rich. You see, filmmaking, especially in the scale of big budget Hollywood films, is an incredibly complicated process involving a staggering number of people. The fact that any film gets made at all, mediocre or otherwise, is a miracle. To have co-written The Dark Knight Trilogy, widely regarded as a seminal addition to history of cinema, is something any of us can only dream of achieving in our lifetimes. Someone involved with that has earned the license to make as many projects of, as you deem, "mediocre or barely passable" quality as they wish.

[@alexlazzerly3677]

@@kowmangbeltalowda7584 Ah yes Batman Begins , Blade, Man Of Steel, and The Dark Knight are "barely passable things."

[@peperesines]

Don't do it. It's an absolute piece of shit, and that's not taking into account that it pisses all over Asimov & the books.

[@TheEnnisfan]

This dude's a fuckin legend. His assistant was my neighbor for many years until her unfortunate and untimely passing. She had nothing but nice things to say about him.

[@darkjedi7]

That's amazing to hear... RIP 🙏

[@joshuapowers1369]

Man of steel is the best Superman movie !!!!!

[@Entertainment-os4ig]

Demerzel is one of the most complex character on tv. So human. So good. Don’t f it up apple. Give the man all the seasons he wants to make. You can afford it.

[@cereal_qilla]

A great grounded naturalistic guy who’s lived a life and has something real to write about

[@artist271]

Great interview. Any new details about the behind-the-scenes Dark Knight trilogy is always fascinating.

[@wilburke5793]

Never heard Goyer talk before. He seems like a great dude. I also didn’t know you had a podcast, we will be subscribing.

[@JoshHorowitz]

Welcome aboard!

[@chaberio1335]

Da Vinci's demons was awesome I loved that story by him. Hidden gem.

[@Blackbird32704]

Thanks for this interview as always Josh your questions are on point completly..Love it brother

[@JoshHorowitz]

Appreciate that!

[@ericgen5022]

This was fantastic. Thank you!

[@Timartyn]

Really fascinating interview! Goyer has had such an intriguing career.

[@maxpayne232]

I remember way back when Blade Trinity came out everybody had no problem just shitting on this guy and yet his name is on so many things we love.

[@noelgarcia1360]

Love all David Goyer's talents as a writer and producer. Wish that the season 3 of Kyrpton would have been made. Thanks for this interview.

[@user-gt6ye8cr4z]

great chat with dave. what a director.

[@jamesg871]

31:00 is so important. So many fans wanted a MOS Sequel, and it makes sense that DC was trying push out more team up movies like Marvel. It shows that DC really screwed up and look where they are now.

[@DavidPetersenChannel]

Amen about waiting for a Mouse Guard Movie/Show...

[@braxtonwages195]

I believe the other actor in running for Ra’s Al Ghul who was Bale’s contemporary was Guy Pierce.

[@FirstnameLastname-my7bz]

Hi, Josh. How are you man? Thank you for such an amazing content and history made, hopefully with certain happy endings in the end of things.

[@sledgomatic]

Goyer is a genius. And attracts genius around him.

[@ShanuIrshad]

Josh please do these in-person I'm begging you 😔

[@antona.1327]

Not having Goyer still be involved in the DCEU was one of the reasons for its failure. He created this franchise from a scratch, Man of Steel was a good start for DC's own multi-franchise. Like it or not, DCEU movies were at their best when they felt more like Man of Steel, less like Birds of Prey or The Flash.

[@Crunch_Buttsteak]

100%. The first 3 or so movies felt like DC property, they had their own DNA.

[@Crunch_Buttsteak]

Death Warrant was epic David stop it. "You cant kill me Burke"

[@fisher3317]

Really great guy, he perfectly summed up why the DCEU failed. The studio simply wanted to catch up with Marvel without understanding how much time and work it took to build their cinematic universe. They truly ran before they could walk.

[@issiewizzie]

thank you for Blade

[@user-fe1gb9uc1t]

Fantastic Voyage, please! Two films I would love to see remade - Colossus The Forbin project + Fantastic Voyage

[@coleurs]

I’m so impressed with your knowledge Josh. This would be dream job to talk film, I feel like if I met you we would nerd out forever.

[@sinjinreed2091]

Making BvS sounds like Hell. No wonder it came out like it did.

[@kyleyork6811]

Dark City is still one my favorite movies and movie theater experiences

[@nweditor875]

Great interview, Still wish David S Goyer Green Arrow movie did not get axed.

[@JoshHorowitz]

Thanks for checking it out!

[@manofsteel938]

Love his writing but also loved the movie The Invisible that he directed back in 2007!

[@felyxmillicent6538]

That's an underrated movie for sure.

[@dericjames2018]

I remember that film my memories came back definitely underrated.

[@manofsteel938]

@@dericjames2018It’s awesome to see that other people liked this film as well. Thank you

[@manofsteel938]

@@felyxmillicent6538I agree 100, good to see others feel the same. Thank you

[@KixMusaid]

Low key Man of Steel is a masterpiece

[@FirstLast-yh7gj]

Naw

[@KixMusaid]

@@FirstLast-yh7gj Yeah

[@FirstLast-yh7gj]

@@KixMusaid naw not even close lol

[@rl8259]

Hell no

[@KixMusaid]

@@rl8259 hell yes

[@chem7553]

Cool interview. Glad they are not doing more TDK movies. The series is better left untouched.

[@iswearimcreativeproduction7604]

My wish for the future isn't AI but time stamps for long conversations, so thank you for this

[@erdalalacati2162]

I am david s. goyer fan . Hope they will get use masters of the universe script. In my opininon he should return to comic book movie again.Especially to batman . Storys so cooll for batman

[@user-sl7el4gl6g]

❤❤❤

[@THEremiXFACTOR]

So....we now have confirmation of yet another Star Wars project that never saw the light of day. Goyer and Del Toro.

[@mrhypnagogia]

He looks incredible. He hasnt aged a day in two decades

[@JohnSmith-yd5wq]

He talked about going to A ANON which is for families of addicts. So probably clean living, being rich and having few worries helps.

[@99annanic]

I don’t feel David gets enough credit what he’s done for the comic book movie genre. He’s worked on Blade and TDK trilogy should always be recognised.

[@festo512]

Blade was a copy off of the first batman film. The visuals were based on the 90s blade comic.

[@northwindkey]

It's a combination of two things. One is that Goyer got so much instant praise early on for Dark City and Blade and Batman Begins that he was over-hyped at first, and an over-correction ensued where people went to the opposite extreme the minute they realized that he's not perfect (No human, no writer, is perfect, but when people build someone up as if they are, finding that out feels like a let-down). Two is that Goyer in interviews has had some... questionable views on comic books to say the least. He thinks Martian Manhunter is a terrible character and called all fans of him "virgins". And most notably, Goyer tried to imply She-Hulk was designed for the Hulk to have sex with. Even though they're cousins and that's not at all why She-Hulk was created. His comments on She-Hulk comments bordered on slut-shaming.

[@festo512]

@@northwindkey batman begins wasnt hyped. People complained about how raas al ghoul and scarecrow were used.

[@TheMerts14]

Would like to hear about what they would have did if heath ledger didn’t die

[@backto-il9ne]

My first Goyer interview and something about his energy felt familiar. Just Googled and he is a capricorn and we share the same birthday haha.

[@TheAvengersRising]

Glad he's spoken out and yeah, all this interference from Warner Bros was all about copying Marvel. This is why we won't stop fighting to #RestoretheSnyderverse and not let anything the studio and James Gunn throw at us get in the way of helping Zack retake control of continuing his work. We'll need to also get the DC Brand out of WB and over to a studio that doesn't have "revolving doors" of leadership.

[@jokerfleckcast3196]

WB are absolute scum

[@JeffreyArnette-rl6sc]

Give me JAMIE FOXX AS BLADE

[@leestover6656]

Wait… I like Blade Trinity a lot!

[@rl8259]

Ur the only one lol

[@gussygoro2469]

Goyer was, prior to S3, demoted from Showrunner to writer, on his own show. I guess he DOES cede.

[@bossman9873]

Foundation is awesome. Rebel Moon looks amazing. As a fan, it sucks how WB handled the DCEU. They rushed the creatives, undermined the talent and used media outlets and online trolls to try and destroy careers.

[@SonnyFrisco]

David Goyer working on the new Terminator confirmed.

[@tracyb64]

Out of all this, the main thing sticking with me is what the heck was that MAN OF STEEL 2 concept? Those stupid WB suits! If they were just patient, they would have had an INCREDIBLE Superman follow up movie leading into BvS!😡

[@josearrocha3377]

Gyllenhaal as Batman? lol. Bale was the right choice. There went the opportunity to give him his flowers. Anyway. Goyer is probably my favorite screenwriter. Blade. Batman. Superman. Goyer's writing helped bring these characters to life. It's nice to hear it from the man himself that BVS (a garbage movie) was a mistake. I wish we lived in that alternate reality where there was a Man of Steel 2. And that scene with Clark and his father hunting would have been excellent.

[@tracyb64]

Bale was the right choice because he’s the choice we know. We don’t have Gyllenhaal to measure Goyer’s choice by. I guarantee you if Gyllenhaal was picked, we might be surprised Bale was ever in the running!🤔😂

[@tiborsramek]

great interview, Goyer is a legend and for some reason I have a feeling that his movie with Del Toro would have been better than anything Lucasfilm went for instead

[@JoshHorowitz]

Thanks for watching!

[@aishaalamoudi599]

Goyer also wrote Batman v Superman. A movie about the origins of the Jedi would've been an amazing spin-off film, but you can't deny Lucas picked the right teams: under Disney, it made 5 films in 4 years; all made billions except one made 400mil. All well received by audience and critics except the last one. That record is even better than the MCU's. Force Awakens remains the biggest box office in the whole franchise, topping even A New Hope adjusted for inflation "counting only initial release". It remains the the biggest domestic on record; not even Endgame came within 150mil from its domestic gross. Love or hate these films, they made the franchise the second biggest in history

[@tiborsramek]

@@aishaalamoudi599 by "anything Lucasfilm went for instead" I meant stopping the spinoff movies and shoving the ideas to the disney+ shows, various sources (including Del Toro himself) said Del Toro's film would have been about Jabba gaining control of the criminal underworld of Tatooine in Godfather style, so most probably they just botched those ideas together with some other stuff into The Book of Boba fett, which was mediocre at best, also it's possible that Goyer's Jedi origin ideas will be incorporated into their announced Mangold film which has the exact same premise, and btw I love Batman v Superman

[@G4PP3R]

@@aishaalamoudi599but the long term damage from those films and the direction taken has tarnished the franchise and divided it even more so than before Sure it made money in the short term but the long term it’s scarred Star Wars

[@dignerds]

Weird how people ignor the fact that superman killed all 3 kryptonians in the comics .

[@rigsby1454]

Goyer is the worlds oddest screenwriter. Some hack crap, some brilliance. I think he himself said he gets lucky with good people. Weird guy but interesting

[@dennisp3314]

(The Origin of the Jedi) Now THAT would be a movie worth making. Instead of all the desperate attempts to just keep it all going. How about something like that - to Really revive it all. Dang !

[@BodyOpt]

I wondered how deep his involvement was in each stage of the DK trilogy? I thought Begins was near perfect, a modern masterpiece. But the story in TDK was a mess, and the finale had quite a few flaws as well I feel.

[@quearlquack6969]

I think everyone assumed Batman v Superma was the result of too many cooks in the kitchen. Too many executives coming in and out of Warner Bros all with their own idea of what the DCEU should be. Whether you like James Gunn or not, the fact that he and Peter Safran are the sole captains of the ship and the fact that they ONLY report to David Zazloff shows me that their DC universe will have a consistent vision and plan. I'm very optimistic about the future of DC, I think greatness is on the horizon.

[@jokerfleckcast3196]

Saffran and gunn bombed with gunns pedo squad already. They both suck horse semen.

[@gussygoro2469]

That’s all we’ll hear from Goyer until his Emmy acceptance speech where he thanks deez nuts.

[@Rizky-Gumilar]

Crazy how people love trashing Nolan Batman trilogy nowadays especially after batfleck battinson and mcu movies

[@antona.1327]

Considering the default criticisms people give those movies, it boils down to ''Ew, it's too serious, too realistic, too boring. Where are the cool over-the-top Batman villains like Mr. Freeze and Clayface?'' So, in short, Nolan set up to make a dark and brooding Batman, and he succeeded. I'm sure those people are even more so happy with an even more so realistic, serious and lacking in fancy CB villains Batman that Matt Reeves has brought.

[@Rizky-Gumilar]

@@antona.1327 i agree people hate Nolan nowadays

[@Nevad25]

The Dark Knight Rises would have been so much better with the riddler instead of Bane. I remember the hype when the Riddler rumors were around, sadly what we got in the end was disappointing in more than one way.

[@G4PP3R]

I completely disagree.Riddler makes no sense for the theme/message of the film. Also the dark knight rises is a fantastic movie so no shame in being the worst of a incredible trilogy

[@Nevad25]

@@G4PP3R Of course Riddler doesn't make any sense for the theme/message of the film, it wouldn't be the same plot/message/movie if the Riddler was the vilain. It would have been a psychological thriller, much better than what we got

[@josearrocha3377]

@@G4PP3R exactly. The Dark Knight Rises is fantastic.

[@har5814]

It's really a bad idea to rush a DC cinematic universe just for the sake of catching up with the MCU. Man of Steel sequel should've happened before Batman V Superman.

[@qweqqweq2090]

the man of steel scene that really pisses me off is when Clark's dad decides he's basically going to commit suicide in front of Clark and his mom for the stupid reason that maybe someone will see Clark's powers. so dumb!

[@FirstLast-yh7gj]

Rises was already bad adding Riddler wouldn't have helped

[@SolidKnight64]

Jesus to be able to refuse and turn down studios again and again and continue working in Hollywood on some of the biggest movies/franchises ever? Life is just a roll of the dice I guess.

[@LosLS2]

I prefer season 2 of Foundation. Seemed to do a better job of explaining things. Going in fresh with no understanding on season 1, it was all a bit confusing. With regards to the woke thing. Putting in the days events is not what makes things woke. It's when you beat people over the head with it. Making people think about stuff is good. Telling them how they should think isn't.

[@misner1989]

ZACKS 3 dc movies are the best. Besides the Dark Knight Warners HAS FUCKED UP EVERYTHING and the reboot ain't gonna fix this

[@rl8259]

Zack is a hack

[@dullyvampir83]

So this is the hack that ruined Foundation.

[@44excalibur]

This guy is one of the absolute worst screenwriters in Hollywood. He's so overrated.

[@peperesines]

What a fucking disaster Foundation is. I have to admire Goyer, though. Every time you think he's touched rock bottom, the next episode is even worse.

[@isuriadireja91]

i hope David reads this.... Did the directors make significant changes to your scripts, on The Dark Knight RISES and Man of Steel... Significant enough to have made those movies SUCK..cos they DO. Batman Begins...The Dark Knight...AWESOME!!!! The Dark Knight Rises...Man of Steel...GARBAGE!!!!!K