Joshua Graham and Kreia Debate Morality

[@billyholland5156]

The one and ONLY criticism for these Joshua vs Kreia debate videos is that Kreia is just a tad too polite in them. she likes more biting words, quiet but filled with an underlying contempt, always seeking to cut to the other person's core. I still like this, but its hard not to notice that point.

[@TheCouriersGambit]

Thank you for the feedback! I'll try to incorporate more disdain from Kreia in my next video.

[@billyholland5156]

@@TheCouriersGambit i am just impressed at your responsiveness to feedback. i already had a high opinion of you from your work thus far, and this is only raises it some more!

[@Masterchiefandcommandershepard]

@@TheCouriersGambit Personally, I like that Kreia and Joshua have a polite conversation. 😄

[@RUdigitized]

I actually disagree she dissed him and mocked him in her way the whole time. But then again it’s been a really long time since I’ve played koror2

[@billyholland5156]

@@RUdigitized i just finished replaying it sunday. you might be right, but i do think she could stand be at least slightly more scathing. even if it only were just a tad.

[@RikouHogashi]

And this is why I prefer to stand on Stone instead of Sand

[@bulldowozer5858]

I (too) don't like sand. It is course and rough and get's everywhere.

[@natebush8217]

​@@bulldowozer5858 And don't forget irritating. ;D

[@jonesjack6088]

If you had dropped joshua into the star wars universe he would have been a gray jedi.

[@epistemo3442]

Depends on the Grey Jedi. If it is about following the will of the Force even if it is contradicting the Jedi Council (e.g. Qui-Gon Jinn), then I agree. But if it is balancing between light side and dark side, then no, that's fanfic territory.

[@grambo4436]

I disagree! Joshua Graham would feel more siding with the light Force while Kreia represents the actual Grey jedi. Because she isnt feared to go into the depths that jedi and sith couldn't. That is balanced by both light and dark by experiencing them each.

[@zorokicksass60]

@@grambo4436 you dont think joshua would choose to use force choke and force lightning sometimes? i think joshua would and with his zealot faith, still cling to the light.

[@Puroboi8894]

He would be crowned Mandalore within a week

[@jonesjack6088]

@@Puroboi8894 I like your idea better.

[@Masterchiefandcommandershepard]

Honestly they argue like an Old Married Couple. IN A GOOD way.😎

[@billyholland5156]

there are so many combinations of characters for intriguing debates that we can only imagine. this is an example of the potential for bringing those debates to life.

[@TheCouriersGambit]

Thank you! Do you have any suggestions for future debates? I think Kreia and Graham will both be mainstay characters for this channel, so anyone who you could see debating those two characters, feel free to suggest!

[@billyholland5156]

i will have several suggestions for you later. i need to think of a few of my favorites.

[@billyholland5156]

@@TheCouriersGambit one idea would be a debate on the age old question of evil... debated by AM from I have no mouth and must scream, and Aslan from Chronicles of Narnia. Or alternatively, since Aslan is literal Lion jesus, you could have Joshua Graham standing in instead debating AM (maybe Aslan would be preventing AM from doing his usual thing to humans, thus allowing the debate to happen)

[@billyholland5156]

@@TheCouriersGambit another idea would Plageius debating either Kreia or Joshua on materialism.

[@ArchWizardCj]

I need Obi Wan and Batman to reflect on their decisions to abstain from crossing a line@@TheCouriersGambit

[@academicbonsai]

I love these. It must be incredibly time consuming to write, and splice everything together. Thank you for bringing Kreia and Joshua to life in this wonderful way.

[@mat7083]

For a second there, I thought I read Joshua Graham and Ikea

[@AntiSerpent]

Joshua would be a perfect gray jedi and a tribute to the whole jedi in total.

[@Ubermensch9240]

Thor Skywalker: *TRIGGERED*

[@derekbambenek7803]

Asked...and found you did it already lol!

[@TheCouriersGambit]

Haha I just saw your other comment on the Ulysses video! Glad you found the old videos :) I'll have more conversations with them at some point

[@potatolord2196]

In retort to Kreya, a world of only chaos cannot exist, as reason is based on cause and effect, if she can understand that the universe is chaos, she needs cone to that conclusion by reason, meaning she observed cause and effect. Every effect has a cause, even if we can't see it.

[@thewarner2139]

She's not saying the universe itself is chaotic, genius. Natural phenomena are still the direct result of causality. It's the human perception and experience within the world that is random and chaotic; as well as our reaction to any given stimuli. Emotional responses and lack thereof lead to any given number of possibilities taking place. The diverging branches of consequence mean there can be no one set outcome for any given scenario. That is the randomness of the world she speaks.

[@marcelgrabowski5939]

Last sentences from Kreya were really touching honestly.

[@MrHALOMANIAC117]

I would love a conversation between Kreia and paarthunax!

[@reyis_here945]

Remember morality is objective, we are bond by choice

[@89BlackGatomon]

That one for the favorites. Magnificent video.

[@grambo4436]

3:57 Honestly one of the best responses to joshua's claims on order, authority and choas.

[@darthlazurus4382]

There is something surreal about Keira discussing a topic with one she sees as an equal. She clearly disagrees with Graham but also clearly enjoys hearing his views.

[@n543576]

Kreia's ideology in this debate seems more in promotion in an arbitrary and listless world. We can all argue the inconsistencies when it comes to nebulous concepts like "justice" "morality" and "freedom" but even so riding the wave and chaos because the process of actually solidifying those concepts seems impossible is not a solution it's cowardly.

[@CharuzuAutomatonArtificer]

That depends on a point of view. If you attempt to reach a conclusion you know you never can, does that not just foster distrust of the very principles you strive to instill?

[@joemomma2189]

In my personal opinion, the Moment Kreia made the decision to try and 'kill' the Force, she lost- the Force 'Wounds' were random accidents, happenstance, what Kreia was trying to do was an act of Will, and that is an aspect the Force governs, as it ebbs and flows. If it were done unconciously, or even absent-mindedly, such an action would be possible. But the moment Kreia made the decision to do what she did, she was doomed to failure.

[@damiencrossley7497]

Look you make this work so well!

[@SkinnyEatWorld95]

I respect Joshua and relate to Kreia. She speaks the truth.

[@chriscannon8144]

These vids inspire to me to write my comic better and win a debate against my Professor. I respect her, but she’s in desperate need of heavy enlightenment. Btw. Did you change Joshua’s voice a bit? He sounds a little softer than usual.

[@TheCouriersGambit]

I didn't change it myself but you're right, he does sound a lot softer. I'll try creating an updated model for him to fix that.

[@SuperGman117]

are you... writing a comic about debating your professor?

[@chriscannon8144]

@@SuperGman117 Ha! No, two separate things. But the comic does reflect on some of our debates from time to time.

[@steviegilliam5685]

Just a suggestion but judge holdem and the lich?

[@omniteksilbear4559]

Why is Joshua Graham listing to nihilist Kriea when she clearly failed in her own ideologies as evidenced in her own death betrayals etc. Maybe if Kreia read niche and saw why he was miserable she'd get into stoicism. I think we need marcus aurelius debating.

[@kyesickhead7008]

4:29 How can you do all of that if you aren't an individual? the thing is to evolve, not this shallow way of "experience". Feels like this conversation should've lasted a few hours instead of five minutes.

[@markbenand]

I have a rebuttal to Kreia that I don't think she would have a real answer for. It's from a hulk comic and that is certainly appropriate given the content of this video. "Hero or villian? Man or monster? Good or evil? Doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. What matters is what you choose to do. What you choose to be." That's it in a nutshell. Our choices define us as we are shaped by the results of our actions. It's always about a choice.

[@tehlulzpare]

Ironically, I think that’s almost EXACTLY what Kreia wants from you in Kotor 2! The whole reason she wants to destroy the force is the ideals it puts upon the galaxy, often removing choice from the picture. Destiny? Fate? These things TERRIFIED her. The idea she was following a path she didn’t choose, nor you. She wants a free galaxy, where your free will, choice, is ALL that matters. She’s cruel about it; but it’s why she’s so prone to being mad when you remove choice or consequence, and merely provide a solution or kill someone….far greater it is, to bring them to your way of thinking, or to provide the means to do it themselves. The irony that she’s so manipulative is hilarious, she probably hates herself as much as she hates the force. What she “loves” about the exile is the fact you have a force wound, alienating you from its pull, and instead you pull from others to use it. The force itself has no bearing on you. The force has fate: a man decides.

[@ryanmartin4452]

joshua is who i want to be like but i think im more like Kreia

[@TheMystic1014]

From a human perspective and faith, order generally provides more advantages and benefits compared to chaos in various aspects of life and society. Those who disagree with this notion may be considered anarchists.

[@goliath1179]

Kreia would debate circles around Joshua, someone that knows God exists and is disgusted with the reality that has been unfolded before her because of that higher force’s unknowable purpose and ultimately destructive purpose.

[@Sanscripter]

you could debates with more characters

[@metaljacket8128]

All Kreia brought to the table were insults, condescension and baseless assertions in flowery language. The world Joshua Graham paints is not only far more beautiful, but I think far more real. He offers substance. Kreia offers pride--and thus, in the end, nothing at all.

[@grimmseti]

The title could be: "Kreia gives best explanation for the Left Hand Path on the internet" LOL

[@atlas8316]

Can you do albert wesker and thrawn

[@naturaangel3154]

Epic

[@dr.veronica6155]

I can listen to Joshua Graham explain his philosophy to anybody from fiction all day.

[@ФирдавсИсмоилов-с6в]

Do u just use their voices to dictate script written by u or it's AI that generates those beautiful dialogues?

[@omegasupreme1970]

I want to see Kreia and Optimus Prime

[@liamdacre1818]

Kreia sounds like an existentialist or an absurdist

[@cancergrapefruit8873]

Joshua is a freelance force user. Not a Jedi, something like a Baran-Do sage and he would be powerful. His primitive gun would be his symbol as a jedi might use a lightsaber.

[@omegasupreme1970]

LOL shortest debate ever Kreia and Omegat Supreme... Kreia your devotion to duty is... Omega Supreme Talk exsessive Time short....

[@obitouchiha6439]

Kreia is based.