Nice education video. I've been using KongKong props for a period of time and found that they are well balanced by the manufacturer. Learnt from your videos, I raised up the P and D to remove oscillations. Based upon the stock PID, I raised the P term by 0.5 steps while the D term by 5 steps to test the best settings.
@JoshuaBardwell8 жыл бұрын
Awesome! Sounds about right.
@PropwashRotorsports8 жыл бұрын
Joshua, aside from your PID-tuning prowess, your flying is really sharp. I have been watching your videos since last year, and I must say that your acro skills are top notch. And that is one sweet muumuu......
@JoshuaBardwell8 жыл бұрын
Thanks. It's a saree wrap skirt though :-)
@Scrub_Zero8 жыл бұрын
Great video! This is a tough area for me! Thanks and great work as always!
@1917VIL8 жыл бұрын
Very nice, Joshua! Very helpful! Thanks!
@JoshuaBardwell8 жыл бұрын
Glad to hear it!
@joshfinley858 жыл бұрын
great information as always .
@avagofpv7898 жыл бұрын
ive not tried raisen my yaw on p I will av a go see what happens thanks for the info and video helped me out a lot
@flywithmefpv8 жыл бұрын
It would be nice to see the PIDs that you used and adjusted, I am fairly new to PID tuning so the challenge for me is the starting point.
@JoshuaBardwell8 жыл бұрын
Start with the default values and work from there.
@astragalizont8 жыл бұрын
Drinking game: every "propwash" take a shot..boom headache the next morning. Maybe you should call it "how to tame propwash 2.0" Great video, keep em coming! Could you edit in your PIDs or changes into the video, like in your DVR videos? Its easier for us to follow your thoughts
@kentboehm19817 жыл бұрын
Joshua, I have just watched your Practical Tuning series back to back and I have to say it is very cool how your flying has become more and more refined. In this video it really is wonderful to watch. You have much more nuanced control of the copter which is really nice to see in terms of progression from the earlier videos. I have a question about tuning out propwash. When you have a copter that handles propwash scenarios correctly, can you still hear surging in the motors as the copter rides the turbulent air? It appears not from this video but... I have been assuming that getting rid of propwash would mean the copter always sounds smooth and you wouldn't hear that classic fluttering oscillation sound as you descend through your wake with power on, but it occurred to me that perhaps you WOULD hear this but the copter would not physically oscillate. So the motors are rapidly changing power settings to deal with the dynamic turbulent air thus you HEAR the sound but your footage would look smooth. Like a car on a bumpy road - you would SEE the suspension working to smooth out the bumps but the chassis would be steady and stable. Is this correct? Trying to work out what I am aiming for when eliminating propwash through tuning
@JoshuaBardwell7 жыл бұрын
Your suspension analogy is exactly correct. I find that when D is high enough to make the copter fly really well, you hear the motors surging especially when the throttle is low and the copter is "floating" at the top of a punchout.
@nobody_unkn8 жыл бұрын
@Joshua, I have yet to see it or hear you talk about it but when im doing some amature LOS and when I do a roll the quad looks like its "tick tocking" to try and describe it as I am doing a full roll the quad looks like its skipping every 20°. As I have said before you have been a huge help in the multirotor community thank you for your time and help.
@JoshuaBardwell8 жыл бұрын
I would want to check Blackbox to see if rcCommand was stuttering or if the motor were skipping or what.
@gautelundal99408 жыл бұрын
awesome! after watching all the tune videos, and trying it out, i can see and hear what you are talking about! and my tune has gotten much better! love your work! now i need to get some KingKong 5040 tri-blades! :) how do you feel about 6" props? on a 250 quad
@JoshuaBardwell8 жыл бұрын
There are some race courses where 6" makes sense, but most pilots are running 5".
@startazz4 жыл бұрын
Hi Joshua,is there a quick way of disabling motor filtering? i only ask as one of my quads i did it to is playing up,yes i did a dump of my old set up but for some strange reason it won't work when i try to put my old set up back in Betaflight, I also sent you an email but i understand if you are to busy to help. Much love and respect from the UK. 😉👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾
@JaydenLawson8 жыл бұрын
Thanks for this! You mentioned that you were closely monitoring the motors for overheating. How were you doing that and how would you know when it's a problem?
@JoshuaBardwell8 жыл бұрын
Well, if you have an infrared thermometer, you can check the temp of the bell and the windings, in which case they should be below about 70° C. If you have high-temp magnets, they can take more than that, but there's really no reason to push it IMO. If you don't have an infrared thermometer, pinch the bell, and if it is too hot to hold your fingers on it for about 5 seconds, it's too hot.
@JaydenLawson8 жыл бұрын
Awesome - thanks so much Joshua Bardwell
@getchucked11358 жыл бұрын
Hey Joshua thanks always for your content you really helped me get into this hobby. I have a tuning question and I'm not sure if this is the place for it but idk where else to put it so here it is.. Just built a QAV-X having odd problem with pitch I term, nose pops up on throttle blips and drops after punches even with I at 85: Bflight 2.9. BB shows motor 1,3 output at 100% and 2,4 at 80% at full throttle which I expected meant CG was off and too much weight in the tail but this is not it. I tried everything even hanging the battery off the front, had to be like 70/30 weight distribution towards the front and the problem was exactly the same. Every part is brand new so idt the rear motors should be making less thrust. Any ideas? I was going to go as far as to mess with the mixer drop the front motors power but I feel like something else is wrong and that's not a solution just a crutch if that even were to work.
@JoshuaBardwell8 жыл бұрын
+Nick Tesla back motors higher in forward flight is a normal aerodynamic effect, not CG. Don't mess with the mixer. The same thing must always happen for the copter to fly stable. If you have pitch throttle coupling raise pitch I gain. 85 is pretty high but keep raising it until it fixes or something bad happens
@getchucked11358 жыл бұрын
Ok I will thanks!
@MrStevegibb8 жыл бұрын
Would you consider sacrificing smoothness for better lap times and a little propwash. I am asking because you mentioned that to be 95% tuned you shouldn't have propwash but i have found that when making full speed 90 degree snap turns that if tuned for no propwash the quad will wash out or drift out of the corner but with a lower d gain the quad digs into the air and jolts itself into the new direction more aggressively.
@JoshuaBardwell8 жыл бұрын
Yes, absolutely. It's the difference between tuning for racing vs. tuning for acro.
@zsedcz8 жыл бұрын
Hey, how are you doing, I once ask you if it's possible for your I gain to be higher than your P gain, but Betaflight 3.0 stock I gain is higher than the P gain on pitch, any input on this? thanks. ............d
@JoshuaBardwell8 жыл бұрын
I said in answer to your other question that there is no implied relationship between P gain and I gain. The answer stands.
@SmokinMesa7 жыл бұрын
Thanks man, watched a heap of PID tuning vids (Inc all yours) and yours are helping me learn to tune the most. Just one question, how do you know if you're motors are too hot from high D? Mine come down a little warm but not hot.
@matiasmikkonen55637 жыл бұрын
if you can hold your finger on them it should be fine
@SmokinMesa7 жыл бұрын
they're coming down cooler than the LIPO so.....should be fine :)
@matiasmikkonen55637 жыл бұрын
Yup
@janprejzek47068 жыл бұрын
Hi. Can i see in pid tuning video your betaflight version and your final pids ? That could be cool ;-) . Thanks
@JoshuaBardwell8 жыл бұрын
I don't typically go out of my way to show my exact PIDs because I am hoping to teach you the technique to come up with your best PIDs, not just copy mine. My P gain is typically around 60-80 on pitch and roll and around 90-110 on yaw. I gain is typically defautls with betaflight 3.0, or perhaps slightly raised, around 50-60 on pitch especially. D gain is HEAVILY dependent on the copter's noise level, but may be between 30 and 60.
@elirane858 жыл бұрын
when you say high D gains, how high? I heard that it's best to avoid high D if possible but I was wandering what is considered too high? And answer for betaflight 3 if possible :)
@JoshuaBardwell8 жыл бұрын
+eliran zach if your motors come down too hot to touch for 5 seconds, that's too hot.
@nixxinn8 жыл бұрын
little question joahua, I'v been playing around with the notch filter, and its working butiful, you have any advice on dterm_lowpass and yaw_lowpass settings when using notch ? thanks in advance
@JoshuaBardwell8 жыл бұрын
It's really too early to give any general guidelines. In some cases, people have reported being able to reduce or eliminate the use of dterm_lowpass when using the notch.
@nixxinn8 жыл бұрын
ok so "dterm_lowpass = 0" is off ?? cos on the blackbox editor when I tryed it, it says dterm lowpass at 0hz I'm a little confused like always :)
@JoshuaBardwell8 жыл бұрын
+nixxinn that's off.
@Linkmindz8 жыл бұрын
is there a way to eliminate the bounce from landing? I really want smooth landings without disarming...
@JoshuaBardwell8 жыл бұрын
Not with air mode active, that's for sure.
@adamk.39468 жыл бұрын
have you tried blheli_s yet? I just got in 20a and 30a racerstar v2 (sunrise cicada rebrand) and I'm finding a lot of things I couldn't seem to tune out of my old lb pro are SO easy to get rid of with these. everything runs cooler and tuning is a lot easier in my opinion.
@JoshuaBardwell8 жыл бұрын
Yeah. The _S are very good. I'm flying Cicada 20A on my Canis M4. I'm having some yaw gyro glitch problems with that copter, which is why you're not seeing more of it on the channel.
@adamk.39468 жыл бұрын
+Joshua Bardwell you haven't been able to find the source of the gyro problem? I have read your posts on regroups and it does sound like one hell of a problem to figure out. I'd ask if you have tried this or that, but I'm sure you have exhausted all possibilities. I consider you the Yoda of quadcopters :-)
@JoshuaBardwell8 жыл бұрын
+Adam Komarek I think that vibration isolation will fix it. It's just hard to do on such a small copter.
@smashitfpv39228 жыл бұрын
Hi there Joshua. I am currently having an issue with my quad slightly yawing to the right when I do flips and rolls. I am not quite sure what to change on my tune. It seems to do it more on rolls than flips. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks for all your videos as they have helped me out in the past.
@flowrider82458 жыл бұрын
+Joshua Bardwell okay thanks I will try Black Box.
@smashitfpv39228 жыл бұрын
+Joshua Bardwell Hello again. It turns out that I am ever so slightly bumping yaw input as I am reducing throttle to do my rolls and flips. Would you suggest adding some yaw expo to help with this? I am flying with no yaw expo at the moment. I have only been flying acro for about 3 weeks now so please forgive the noobness. Lol : )
@devling66068 жыл бұрын
EDITED: Mentioned the quick speech, but seems my youtube player had bugged out and played everything at like 1.5x speed. Weird. But nevermind ;)
@Airmonus8 жыл бұрын
That's how I watch everything :) This way I can consume more.
@studiochloki7 жыл бұрын
Hi Joshua, do you know if raising your P can result in a smoked ESC? Just went for a test flight and after about a minute it burned mid-air...
@JoshuaBardwell7 жыл бұрын
Very unlikely. P term oscillations are not usually high frequency enough to smoke an ESC. Anything is possible but that wouldn't be my first guess.
@studiochloki7 жыл бұрын
Thanks for your fast reply! I hope it was just an unhappy coincidence...
@jwhit87608 жыл бұрын
Wouldn't More I term help with prop wash? What are your thoughts?
@JoshuaBardwell8 жыл бұрын
+jwhit87 I don't think I term generally responds fast enough to affect propwash.
@doondedulin448 жыл бұрын
When you say jump up the e.g. p gain. How many points are we talking. Just curious
@JoshuaBardwell8 жыл бұрын
I went from about 6 on the DYS props to about 10 on the KK props. That is a pretty big jump though. Normally I would bump about 0.5 to 1.0 at most in a single step.
@doondedulin448 жыл бұрын
Great help. Thanks JB
@jrkerne8 жыл бұрын
Hello Joshua.. I am using PIDs close to 90 on my HQ 5x4x3 and I am still having some prop wash. I am really concerned of having D gain too high, so I usually try to keep D at 25ish... What would you say that would be the ceiling for P and D ?
@JoshuaBardwell8 жыл бұрын
Let the flight characteristics dictate the tune. I saw somebody flying with P around 16 to 20 and was shocked that it was flying great. I have no idea how. In general, P is in the range of about 4-10 and D is around 20-30. P above perhaps 12 would be suspicious to me, and D higher than around 35-60 is somewhere where motors will start getting hot on most setups IMO.
@jrkerne8 жыл бұрын
Ty for the prompt answer Jushua! My question was related to the Martian II 230mm that I am trying to tune, using the SP Racing F3 and HQ 5x4x3 props, 2204 motors emax. I found that my P was good around 90... which I found really high and my D is yet to be tuned, its sitting now around 20 and my I is set as 35ish. My other Martian III 210mm has the default PIDS from Betaflight 2.9.1 (float) and flies awesome... Is it normal to have a P close to 100 or even higher than 100 ? thats my question.
@JoshuaBardwell8 жыл бұрын
+Jose Roberto Kerne not abnormal.
@jrkerne8 жыл бұрын
OK nice ty! I will finish the tune and I will share the PIDs for this one... its a really weird PID set but... ;-D it feels good flying
@DatScream8 жыл бұрын
What is prop wash? One question when my quad is in stationary it just does goes to the left? Why?
@JoshuaBardwell8 жыл бұрын
Propwash oscillation is a type of oscillation that comes out when the copter is falling into its own propwash, or when it is in a sharp turn and is "skidding" backwards into its own propwash. Your other question is pretty open-ended. If you are in autolevel mode, you might need accelerometer trim. Also, check to see that your channels center at 1500 us.
@DatScream8 жыл бұрын
+Joshua Bardwell thx 👍ok i will check But acro is life
@ceecrb18 жыл бұрын
Yeah yeah yeah, this is all very good but what are your PIDs :P
@JoshuaBardwell8 жыл бұрын
Four.
@jack00scarecrow8 жыл бұрын
i believe a good tune is 42 just like the meaning of life ;)
@ceecrb18 жыл бұрын
Ah yes, what you get when you multiply 6 x 9.
@jack00scarecrow8 жыл бұрын
close but no cigar :)
@ceecrb18 жыл бұрын
+jack00scarecrow wrong! That is the ultimate question, the one the super computer that deep thought designed to find the question calculated it to be. The point, as arthur dent says, "I always thought there was something fundamentally wrong with the universe".
@knwest20128 жыл бұрын
hey josh, what are your thoughts on the Flip 32 Omnibus?
@JoshuaBardwell8 жыл бұрын
I think you must really love it, because you have been blowing up my comments section about it!
@knwest20128 жыл бұрын
Hehe, sorry. Im actually looking for a new fc and may try one of em.
@JoshuaBardwell8 жыл бұрын
It's a great board. Betaflight OSD, SD card reader. What more could you ask?
@JoshuaBardwell8 жыл бұрын
PS: I only snarked a little because I think I answered one of your questions about it, and then there were like three more. But maybe you missed the answer. No biggie.
@knwest20128 жыл бұрын
i did miss that. not sure that was me ?? what did you say?
@Quick-Flash8 жыл бұрын
What are you wearing
@JoshuaBardwell8 жыл бұрын
Clothing.
@Quick-Flash8 жыл бұрын
+Joshua Bardwell k thanks I was confused
@riosllc8 жыл бұрын
What the heck are you wearing
@JoshuaBardwell8 жыл бұрын
Clothes.
@riosllc8 жыл бұрын
is it about impossible to eliminate process without braking escs
@riosllc8 жыл бұрын
+riosllc propwash
@JoshuaBardwell8 жыл бұрын
Yes. Without braking there is no chance of having a good flying acro quad, never mind propwash.
@ceecrb18 жыл бұрын
There is an old Scottish joke about Kilts which is applicable here: "Is there anything worn under the kilt?". "No, It's all in perfect working order!".