Joy James on the rise of the Black bourgeoisie

In the 1970s and ‘80s, the image of the Black “welfare queen” was used as a racist scare tactic and a propaganda tool to justify gutting the postwar welfare state, “public good” institutions, and economic programs that benefited the poor and working class. This systemic and systematic assault, which we now attribute to the political project of neoliberalism, was very much a bipartisan effort that extended well into the ‘90s and 2000s. Now, scaremongering about single mothers of color taking advantage of “the system” has increasingly been overtaken by celebrations of “Black girl magic” and the veneration of a growing Black bourgeoisie. How did we get here?
In their latest interview for TRNN, co-hosts of THIS IS REVOLUTION Jason Myles and Pascal Robert speak with Dr. Joy James about the destructive triumph of neoliberalism in the US and about the different institutions, classes, ideological strands, and clashing factions that have developed within the sphere of Black politics in the neoliberal era. Dr. James is a world-renowned scholar and activist, Ebenezer Fitch Professor of Humanities at Williams College, and the author of numerous books, including: Resisting State Violence: Radicalism, Gender, and Race in US Culture; States of Confinement: Policing, Detention, and Prisons; and Seeking the Beloved Community: A Feminist Race Reader.
Read the transcript of this interview:
Pre-Production/Studio: Jason Myles
Post-Production: Cameron Granadino
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[@jeffreymassey5541]

Pascal is on point 🇺🇸👍🏿✊🏿👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿

[@nycboogie]

Always

[@theresabonnano5480]

Yes!!!

[@robertfelts8773]

Yea he is. I'm fascinated by this conversation. Super good stuff here

[@df3575]

I deeply, deeply appreciate how much Joy James was in open contemplation during this discussion....she was honest about how she was engaged in working some of this out in her own mind, even as a someone who's been such a massive contributor to the intellectual landscape of radical politics. it's an example of leadership; community, integrity, vulnerability....keepin it real. I'm glad i finally got to this one. thank y'all.

[@normadenemurphy7454]

I always enjoy Dr James’s analysis. Such a sound and clear voice of facts

[@maxwalsh234]

I love how the into plays music that belongs in a thrasher video ABSOLUTE HEAT

[@tealeaflist]

His Delivery is Measured, well Thought Out, & eminently ACCESSIBLE. For Everybody.

[@ynotlearn4190]

@@tealeaflist his?

[@j.w.2391]

Excellent discussion, examining the "Talented Tenth syndrome that WEB Dubois first endorsed but later castigated because he saw how selfish the Black academics and bourgeoisie was in merely preserving the White Status Quo. They didnt care about dismantling White hegemony but just wanted to find a Comfortable berth within it. This is why I rail against anything / anyone who smacks of Black Conservative Ideology and Politics.

[@nicatnight70]

What a wonderful conversation! Thank you for all you do.

[@maxgatica5736]

Excelente episodio fue este muy informativo con respecto a el estado de este sistema por largo tiempo

[@tomt55]

Fantastic interview / conversation. Please keep this type of content coming! 💪🏻👍🏻👊🏻

[@TheTribeIAm]

Nice to see you listening to each other and actively being aware not to talk over each other. Just imagine how the original inhabitants of the Occupied territories of the Americas and the other territories subjected to Colonial occupation feel.

[@trevorsmith8950]

This is my new favorite show. Y'all killing it. Proud RNN supporter. 🔥

[@danintheoutback1]

This is more about class & not just race. Obama, Powell & Rice are all black, but they all became of a higher class. A different class of black people, within the capitalist Imperial America. The U.S. needs “a working class black politics”.

[@richardburt9812]

I teach at UF and am 68. Totally agree with James' points about the writing being unimaginative and the growth of admin. I would never try to become an academic now. My colleagues are all neoliberals.

[@ese3go]

When I was as worker in an AFDC program in New Orleans I read old files that had long writings about worker's efforts to determine if there was a man in the house. They world peer into windows and lurk in their cars to see if a man would enter a house. When I was there I was told to ask about men. I made many home visits that were done every 6 months. I never asked about men but Black women told me that they had a live in partner. I just ignored the rule. I met many interesting women in that job.

[@jackkadaka9020]

Thanks for the marvelous interview. I read a lede for a financial article today where a financial advisor type claimed, "People are retiring too early, they aren't saving enough to retire with."Which I read as just another symptom that no one is happy in the work place or with those demands for perpetual productivity increases you mentioned. Another piece had a chart which was touting the glories of our system and how many people are making six-figures or are millionaires, while at he bottom of the graph portrayed almost 20% of working people make 25k or less. That's one in five working adults in poverty. So, "I'll hire one half the working class to kill the other half" has become "I'll hire one half the working class to immiserate the other half".

[@nycboogie]

What a fantastic conversation!

[@karendalsadik7119]

I wish I could send this to my sister who was a execute banking now retired. She had the nerve to finally call me months after my head on collision and two major surgeries to ask me why couldn’t I work. Not how was I or did I need any help.

[@masterclod]

Appreciate yall! Love to see Dr. Joy on here :)

[@djalead.7301]

An extremely deep conversation. Amazin the scope of the crucial issues addressed. These are essential clarifications and. . .True! True! Many thanks!

[@raelsackey104]

At my job before I retired, the executive leaders would convince staff that the only way to get increased salaries, was to avoid the red tape of their unions, and allow them to fast track raises. Of course, that required them to leave the protection of the unions, and display the appropriate level of obeisance to the managerial class. Of course, that would cause you to get fired if you ever had the cause to push back against the managers.

[@antondalemma5484]

Caught Dr. James twice before and she did not disappoint. Feel she lays down a sound, healthy layer of critique testing TIR's (Pascal"s) hard positions on "Black" politics. Another great show.

[@vanessaward6082]

1:13:45 "The point is there's not supposed to be an out." Until this video, I had not heard of Dr. Joy James, but this one statement, I felt, says it all. She is so right in saying it takes a lot of courage to attempt to escape from it all, as the system does "track and punish."

[@sagemoma]

So many truth bombs. "Information as a commodity". The commodification of human capacity is what destroys human experience. Thanks for this conversation.

[@TheQauntumSamuri]

I love all of this....when I heard thoughts I've had recently coming from Pascal's and Jason's mouths I now know I'm on the right track

[@leechong5335]

Thank you very much for presenting us the life of the black community in the USA decidedly it will be necessary to fight again for the constitution to change towards a sincere humanity and to change the 14 amendment 600 years that it lasts we think a lot about you in Europe James Baldwin lived in France exellent writer thank you for all my heart 🌻☀️👍🏾

[@desireegerber]

Amazing job! Thank u so much for having Dr Joy on! PS I'm still giggling at that "fit into this shirt" line 😂

[@angelicalaflame8413]

Love that y’all finally linked for an interview.

[@cheriajohnson]

Oooo imma watch this at work!! Lol 🤎🤎

[@a_real_one2000]

Dope video this topic doesn’t get discussed enough. As I began moving toward socialism & getting away from neoliberalism of DNC leadership. The thing that kept me from aligning with Black conservatives was thought their perspective towards Black women, 70s & welfare was too simplistic & mean. It wasn’t until I started lookin into the details of that time. Most Black folks in working class held jobs that wasn’t covered under the minimum wage or atomic bomb of deindustrialisation. The lessee should’ve learned from the 70s was means testing aid only hurts those who need it most.

[@LoneWulf278]

I notice that Black conservatives talk about welfare and women in the same way that white conservatives talk about affirmative action. Neither are really educated on the details and history of those policies. It’s just a narrative that is easy to digest.

[@Jeannine_9]

My black PMC friends may complain about the grind of balancing 2 jobs, spouse , pets and children but they aren’t giving up that lifestyle. They enjoy being able to pay bills and take vacations too much to become class traitors. Plus Gen Y and older Gen Xers are very shallow and those with money love to showcase how they are doing better than you. Working class/poor people have to continue striking for better wages, and withholding votes for targeted city, state and federal benefits.

[@inaruboricua]

Security is everything once you've got kids to care for. The newly-secure midclass know how brutal that desperation can get, for themselves and esp for their kids, if they sink back into poverty. The abject poverty threat is too real, and too cruel.

[@jcjcviews]

52:30 Hey, brother, I'm in the Bay Area via Mississippi somewhere. You do look like an Oaklander, and I do appreciate you. Being my age and where I am from ( predominantly black land), I recognize you, as I do all black folks in the urban centers. Unfortunately, a good number of sisters and brothers were too close to the so-called "whites," I believe. The moderate weather probably didn't help. Now, what I am saying (shout out to my French language brother, Pascal; I love that Haitian fire!) is that I appreciate the dynamic nature of the conversation because of the "diversity" of the vibe. Improvisation is a helluva thing! Hello, Sister Joy James. I always appreciate your laid-back, spider-like presentation. Everybody needs to be quiet when you speak. Power to the People. It's the only way out!

[@Vladimirleninputin]

Very genuinely appreciated , thank you very much to share 🙋🏻🙋🏿🙋🏾‍♀️ 💜❤️💚

[@christophercotton7149]

This interview and discussion are great!

[@silviajuarez4178]

Thank you, I really appreciated this conversation.

[@WitlessSod]

How come this does not have more likes?

[@elliestreet5286]

I enjoy listening to this woman she is awesome!

[@biometronome7010]

Pascal has an important point. Why are some poor white people racist even when the lack of solidarity is against their own interests? There were poor white segregationists that, from what I read (not my own opinion), wanted to hold on to the only feeling of superiority they had left.

[@beyondaboundary6034]

There are lots of parallels around the world. Why did some poor Hutus join the anti-Tutsi massacres in Rwanda in 1994? Why do some poor non-Dalits join in the oppression of Dalits in India? All systems of oppression require some working class buy-in because the elites will not do the dirty work themselves. When you educate people poorly and propagate scapegoating messages, redirecting anger about their shitty situations onto people who are worse off, you can do a lot of mischief. Nothing new about this.

[@biometronome7010]

@@beyondaboundary6034 I think historical analyses such as cultural reasons for poor white segregationists make good cases for materialism; education itself is guided by material conditions. But poor education is not the sole reason for rightwing populism or corporatist politics. Today much racially-discriminating politics come from some of the most educated people - sure we may assess the value of the content. I like the way Matthew Stewart describes the situation in his book "The 9.9 Percent"

[@Unclejamsarmy]

@@biometronome7010 Dr Adolph Reed has been making a point about this in his appearances promoting his most recent book about growing up in Jim Crow. He cites his dad basically ridiculing the idea that the formation of the Jim Crow order even *was* a demand of poor whites: (paraphrased) “you really think that they (working class whites) got power and the first thing they did wasn’t to help themselves?”. Idk the history well enough to say the exact dynamics, but I feel extremely confident that it’s buying into the myth of American democracy (and probably liberal democracy in general) to think that those kind of major societal organizational decisions are not overwhelmingly made by elites with little attention paid to popular demands of any constituency. It reminds me of the way Obama wasn’t nominated because having a black president was being so heavily demanded by black voters as compared to their other demands, but at the same time that was successfully used to motivate black voters. I don’t have a whole theory of this worked out but I do think there’s a clear pattern of elites finding ways to capitalize on attitudes or discontent or lower priority demands of the people that is commonly rhetorically reversed to prove that it is those peoples priority. I think the trump movement was more motivated by economic revitalization, but trump very effectively exploited lower priority but common attitudes around race and culture that are largely linked to the economics. Then much of the country just attributed trumps election to white demands for racism - in a sense it’s true since the manipulation worked but in a larger sense it’s reversing the causation. People of every race and culture have bigotry and prejudices, and that’s bad, but it’s fertile ground for exploitation by elites as a substitute for material gains. Idk that that’s the whole story but it’s a big part of it that Americans are particularly loath to accept because they want to see racism etc as an issue of moral failing rather than as an ideology created by humans to achieve other ends, mostly if not entirely material exploitation.

[@beyondaboundary6034]

@@biometronome7010 Of course it's not the sole reason. I certainly wasn't saying that. At the end of the day, although the ruling class derives almost all the benefits from an exploitative social order, they can only stay in their position by convincing a big enough chunk of those below them to support the system. Racist ideology is one way to accomplish that goal, and as Reed points out it takes different surface forms while retaining that fundamental utility (really historical materialism 101). North American racial ideology in 1720, 1820, 1920, and 2020 was not the same, but in all four time periods the elites weaponized it to justify their rule (while struggling to contain uprisings from below).

[@biometronome7010]

@@beyondaboundary6034 For sure. I agree with you, sorry if I sounded different. I have Adolph Reed's "Class Notes" but haven't started it yet. But maybe I should start with his recent work "The South"

[@newryyank2247]

Starting a department in a university being described as "domestic labor" is the most PMC thing I have ever heard.

[@Born-Liberated_EmpatheticWorld]

Jaaaaaaaaaaasson lol 💜 He wore a tie so he means business today! Look at Pascowl coming with the historical political facts and mean mugging. 💜

[@futurefarms3440]

She knows the truth and the truth made Her Free...Joy James is so calm in Her element.

[@MrWhitecloth8]

Love Dr. James

[@dentonfender6492]

The Ronald Reagan Library burned down last night. Both books were a total loss. It has been reported that Ronald Reagan never finished the second coloring book. Gore Vidal

[@rafaelpena4269]

"They don't see the SYSTEM as-the PROBLEM" In America..ppl. are HIGHLY manipulated..Even MANY foreigner's see this in this "quote-on-Quote" FREE society!

[@willdrivesu7914]

Watching my parents struggle to keep food on the table and keep the bills paid even with decent jobs showed me just how flawed our system is. Mortgage...car payments, car insurance, house insurance, utility bills...working 12 to 16 hours a day seven days a week, getting no vacation time. He did nothing but work hard until 65, retired and then passed a year later from cancer never getting the chance to enjoy life or do anything. Free society...what a joke that is. Everything he did, and what did he have to show for it? He still didn't own anything at the end of his life, not his house, car or any of it. Of course, even if you pay off that house or car the government can find a reason to take either. No car insurance? Expired registration, yeah, towed and gone when it's found. Don't keep up your property taxes, yeah...gone then too. Expired license? Just one more way for you to get screwed. Why does a license expire anyway? Do I suddenly no longer know how to drive? Our system is a broken mess.

[@rafaelpena4269]

@@willdrivesu7914 This is a land STOLEN from Native's & built on the back's of slave's..MORE UNEQUAL than "ALL of EUROPE"..

[@dianagwinn8143]

@@willdrivesu7914 Yes. Our system functions the way the ruling class intends. The Great Reset says to the entire planet, 'You Will Own Nothing and be happy'. This is the way the poor and working class have been treated here in America since its inception. And that includes white poor as well, although racism is used to afford them preferential treatment; that can only go so far. As we see, under Capitalism, they too are part of the reserved army of labor.

[@drshirts]

@@willdrivesu7914 yy⁷8yy8u8ý7y7ý7uyý7ýy7yy8yýy87yyý7ý7t7t77t7t7yyyygy7yyytyy7yyyyyyyyyy7tyyyyyyyyyyy7y7yyyyyyyy7ty7yyyytyyyyyytyýyyyy77yyytyyyyyyyy7yyyyýyyyy777yyy77yy7yyy777ý7y7y7tyyyyyy7yy7yyyyyýy7y7y9kññññnññ0mmmmokkkkkkokokkokkoookokoookkokkkkk

[@drshirts]

@@willdrivesu7914 ok0lkkķkkkkokkkkkokkkkkkkok

[@robinbanks4257]

... thank you for the news your perspective and process I really appreciate it.. peace..

[@lion-o6821]

Not Hustle Culture but Grind Culture. Born out of Rap lingo. "Grinding"

[@shanethomas6368]

Excellent conversation

[@trdiopn5737]

Great conversation

[@maxgatica5736]

Why not another episode ON THE RISE OF LATINO BOURGEOISIE? it will very informative what I have seen some how many people started from the bottom and then some forgot where they came from

[@roystrickland3363]

Sorry, Pascal Robert. Having a car mechanic and nurse as your parents makes you working class--not upper-middle class as you claim. Especially in NYC.

[@probert06]

Have you ever been to Cambria Heights, New York?

[@Eastbayrob]

Dude got is a lawyer and got an ivy league education so sounds solidly middle class to me. You have to remember that you used to be able to have a nice little middle class life with jobs like that before neoliberalism kicked into high gear.

[@zblofu]

I think Pascal mentioned elsewhere that his father owned a couple shops.

[@Eastbayrob]

@@zblofu yeah he did.

[@Katrinarochellesharp]

If his father owned his business and it did well they could definitely be upper middle class.

[@El_Chuncho]

Shots fired at 1:01:13 😂 1:10:57 great point, Pascal 1:12:00 Absolutely, Jason. I don't make anywhere near that but I see it through others within the office every damn day. They're basically conditioned at this point.

[@nwad76]

Pascal, at about 22:48 you note a book you are reading on Black Political history. Can you share the name of that book? Loving this episode.

[@Labor_Jones]

_This is the most INTELLIGENT comment by a REPUBLICAN I've heard in YEARS._ About Donald Trump was Said, *'He's not crazy enough to put in an Insane Asylum, but if he was in an Insane Asylum, he's not getting out!'* _New Hampshire Gov. Chris Sununu_ April/2022

[@hazelwray4184]

Trump - a product of Reagan/Clinton neoliberalism.

[@richardburt9812]

Glad to hear Dr. Joy James. I also recommend Lester Spence's Knockin' the Hustle.

[@andrewrobertthompson473]

Excellent debate

[@christopherviscuso1882]

Loved this discussion. But I have to say Dr. James’ blinders are up hard and heavy.

[@Good4All4Good]

Q: "How do we change the very meaning of education, and wrestle it back from state and corporation?" Hmm: "As long as the violence [of poverty] doesn't touch us, we can be okay with it." A: "People who theorize, who will engage in material conditions, and material struggle, and who will be accountable to the people they represent, that becomes the collective leadership that we can contribute to." Problem: Until you're ready to BE POOR in your quest to educate the poor, to condense all your vast knowledge of the details of white supremacist, imperialist oppression, into simple language that every oppressed man, woman, and child cannot just know, but feel, you are too captured and confused to realize that followers can't lead. Good talk.

[@IDidNotAsk4ThisHandle]

Yvette Carnell/Breaking Brown had a great Patreon broadcast regarding this Welfare Queen notion given to blackWomen

[@henryjackson464]

Great shows

[@futurefarms3440]

As an immigrant from Africa i love this talk...We are allowed to immigrate to America to be used as fodder to mask black oppression in America...And i say As blacks worldwide we are very poor.

[@judithbaxter1257]

I. Australia we get 6-4 weeks annual leave, 10 days sick leave a year then 3 months long service leave after 10 years for the majority of workers. Also 18 months Maternity leave . I can see the different demand to work so hard to obtain a decent standard of living in your country. We are so lucky but the middle class is disappearing here as well

[@tbr7921]

if anyone has a reference for that comment on welfare, I'd appreciate it, Dr Joy jumped kind of quickly into the Eartha Kitt example and it wasn't clear to me how early welfare policy had been written/implemented.

[@davidberry1034]

"Welfare" was planned and created by ambitious bankers who had a 100 year plan. Ijs the greatest "Welfare" recipients are Defense Contractors, period. Eartha Kitt commented on "U.S. foreign policy". When Dr. MLK Jr accepted his Nobel Peace Prize he spoke on "U.S. foreign policy". He got clapped and Eartha got zapped. Wait for "it" and a pattern will emerge. Sister said it. For example, President Obama kicking the "can" down the road. Trump2024!

[@tbr7921]

@@davidberry1034 yeah, that story is in a documentary about her I saw recently and can't recall where/the name.

[@MrJ6789]

Im beginning to see who is our problem

[@rare_goth_metal_and_shoegaze]

What's the opening song/band? Great talk of course!

[@garrettolson5516]

i'm disgusted... i'm disgusted that jason wore a tie and not a ripped up metal t-shirt. for shame. @41:27 excellent! @01:17:30 good joke! great interview, thank you!

[@normalizedinsanity4873]

I live in Australiam and I became an activist when the war in Iraq was launched. And you go through stages of learning. You learn about political economy/capitalism and private property that underpins colonialism/imperialism/racism. We are talking Marxism obviously, but what was missing (not from Marxism itself) is the humanitarian reasons you learn all this shit, and not in abstract terms of the GINI index or whatever the fluck it is, but what it does to peopleat their very soul, how it destroys their self worth, so they don't even think they have the right to something better. A society where here in Australia over 50% of people have debilitating personality disorders that tear families apart, and people truly don't even know who they are. How 99% of victims of DV have some sort of disorder that makes them vulnerable to 99% of predators who have NPD, and for whom jailing them only makes them more vindicate. Jail isn't for rehabilitation as it increases rectivism x6. Women's refuges that get government funding don't consider facts and social issues, or Parental Alienation where men are victims 90% of time because of the structural violence of the courts, and this has incited bitter gender recriminations, as women continue to die unecessarily Which part of society is going to be affected more in the US, and everywhere for that matter What color people disproportionately fill US jails? ...and this 3 strikes bullshit. So while the exponential bullshit of capitalism is a death wish, and the issue is class, the more I look at things, its the white working class that are bulwark against change Black America leaders. MLK, Malcom X, Fred Hamptom, Bobby Seale, Huey Newton, Rosa Parkes.....the most courageous and principled the US has produced. As for white leaders, Lyndon Johnson, Regan, Clinton murderers....and who speaks for white America, Jordan Peterson, Ben Shapiro., Sean Hannity...(there are principled white bloggers for sure) Stupid white reformists of the law that deprives us all of the right to land, and jails the poor, and doesn't hold war criminals to account. That takes a power of stupid, and someone always pays for stupid ....ALWAYS. And whites follow idiots like Jordan Peterson because his bullshit provides scapegoats that requires no action, the last thing they want to know is truth, because that requires action and to take responsibility, that is the last thing they want to do. I know, lets vote for war criminals instead and enable their crimes We have to vote here, and I refuse to vote for flucking degenerates that kill other people. The point is, you dont have to know about economics, or history, or be a genius to know to do unto others as you would have them do unto you. I don't know what to think, if you live on the street in Australia and the only way you can survive is if someone gives you a hand up, 11 times out of 10 you are going to die Exuse the rant, I m tired, have chronic fatigue (sorry grammar will be all over the place) and bewildered by how far we can sink. It really sucks here, no one pushes back. These guys are a million times better, and smarter than the idiots we put in power. One other thing that does my head in. The stupid gun debate. Its not about the right to bear arms...its why do we make the flucking things in the first place, who is it you want to shoot? We have them to wage war, that's it....so get rid of them....or is that too stupid as well? We are the people, not the pyschopaths in government, we should be making the rules they govern by or they can fluck off

[@bend3rbot]

There seems to be surprise in the discovery that social mobility in black society is not different to that of broader society. Coming from almost complete dispossession it was tempting for both black and broader society to see a cohesive community, based on relative class similarity. The 47 to 71 era was a social engineering response to the maddening tragedy of 1930s depression, and the tragic human sacrifices of WW2 where all people; men, women, of all races cooperated to save Western Capitalist Society. The gratitude of government and business was so profound, having touched every citizen that many programs had broad support, and the 1960s struggle for rights was the clarion call to reduce the prejudice that tainted the advance of the black man/woman in comparison to broader society. The egalitarian model helped millions achieve greater potential from inherent talents and with it social mobility. At its most mature there was a distinct emergence of the begrudging poor, who were unlikely to achieve, were in communities that were structurally disadvantaged. Similarly critical of the programs were the wealthy and entrepreneurs, taxed and levied, regulated and shackled. The war was long gone and sacrificing oneself for the greater good gave way to the ideas that this was broken. Identity was reborn in the individual, the go-getter, the hustle and with it the meritocracy- the idea that you made it because you picked yourself up by your bootstraps. Decoupling compassion from an assessment of the less fortunate prevailed in the lens of 'the bulk of advantage having been gleaned from the social advancement welfare model' and economic rationalism ushered in the ruthless into work worlds. With so many more qualified people of gender and colour now included, business won with affordable labour and competition. The idea that community based on colour would remain cohesive has dwindled with the varied concerns of class divide - being the racial conquer

[@aaronhodges5972]

Great!!!

[@sloburnjo]

right on

[@rawnzambie9772]

The middle class is on the side of the oppressor via access to consumption. They don't want to lose their access to consumption. - brave new world

[@markjonesatlarge5240]

What is the introduction song?

[@werther3736]

Class suicide is certainly not a bad idea, but I think the in between nature of the middle class allows the possibility of a self-interest based class politics that turns segments of the middle class into alliance with the more working class. A small business owner in a nice neighborhood will probably lean conservative, but a nurse or teacher or government worker might might have different resonance with public goods governance and redistribution. Just under half of the Democrats in my solidly upper middle class part of my city voted for either Warren or Bernie in 2020. The votes are there. What is lacking is a sustained political movement that will keep the animating class based self interests at the forefront of political action. That is what we need to figure out.

[@mikeharvey9811]

There’s lots of people black or white who are impoverished by the rich, who have steadily got richer, regardless of covid, war, Brexit etc. Joining the system doesn’t work. We have to unite and overthrow the system, we have to unite and not fight each other but fight the rich. Barb

[@MLK_Sold_Black_america_out]

How do you do that when you have no plan

[@MLK_Sold_Black_america_out]

@Alice Amell i'll skip the activist invite because i know that,being an activist is all that's being offered

[@ncrewments]

While I would concur that an endgame for humanity in general MUST include the kind of diversity of the PEOPLES class that will ensure we (as a species) don't become our own extinction event, I nonetheless am suspicious of those from the demographic that has so profited from this present arrangement, that they have suddenly become "enlightened" about its evils and want to ensure those most suffering from it avoid their "mistakes" of "nationalism" (as if nationalism FOR US would necessarily include THEIR proclivities for power OVER other human beings rather than WITH them.

[@ncrewments]

Far too many European socialists/Communist appear to perceive such ideas as merely the next stage in THEIR social economic development -- with NO intention of restoring the cultures they destroyed that "helped" get them to their "revelations" about its unsustainability. While I am actually FOR the organization of society along more human means, too much of the current push reminds me of the abolitionist who pushed for the ending of chattel slavery towards the advancing of their particular cultural interest. If you are unwilling to see nationalism as a righteous pursuit of the restoration of the self-determination of the PEOPLES decimated by European imperialism, I question how much such endeavors are about "all of us coming together" (the possibility of "supremacy" type ideas even existing among us not withstanding)

[@ncrewments]

Btw, I actually DO think this was one of the best programs that I have seen on the subject! Praises for having the "nerve" to present it!

[@calvinmackey239]

We can if we seriously, want to start our own policies of black capital. With the best programs to create it.

[@tealeaflist]

"about the destructive triumph of neoliberalism in the US and about the different institutions, classes, ideological strands, and clashing factions that have developed within the sphere of Black politics in the neoliberal era..." There it is. Stated Up Front. Both Complicated, & suitably COMPLEX. The Professors & Jason are proceeding in The Correct Direction, IMO, in an Excellent Piece of Commentary here.

[@grazsarducci7477]

Amen @45:00. The machinations behind the scenes, really, this has always been an extension of the most evil empire in history. The five minutes of boon from socialism was hard fought, but it was just a necessary blip in deep state's long plan, mostly due to the soft power faction winning that battle. Damn, glad I sat down just now. I grew up in numerous communities. Have to admit I did always expect black ppl to be my natural ally vs the corrupt systems. That didn't always pan out, but I was right most of the time. At this point tho, we have no power without solidarity. I look to the best examples now- Yemen, Syria, Russia, Iran, Yellow vests, Palestine, Hezbollah, Black Panthers, the collectivism of Chinese culture, Venezuela, DPR, etc.... As a recent panel at Consortium News said, we're running out of time to prevent the global cabal of fascists from crushing our ability to challenge their narratives.

[@kraftycarper]

wtf was arthur scargill doing in that opening piece many people from the usa will not even know who he is,and can u pls tell me what that opening piece of music loved the vid btw

[@jessesaffold1165]

more labor and more grind....facts

[@Highlander25031]

I love the crushing doom metal on the introduction. Anyone know what band that is? It sounds like Slabdragger or Conan.

[@charleslively5300]

Great vedio I know o new afrikan sister thank u!!

[@patriciaoconnor7682]

"Trying to stop being disillusioned",,,,,yes!

[@tonyjones1560]

Good luck with that. Seriously. I’m just about ready to head for the exit. 🛫🛫🛫🛫

[@cgcade1]

I see the system as the problem. Systemic structural inequality in America (specifically) by design is the problem! It is why and how this nation is set up to be. So, yes the system is indeed the problem.

[@ljordan222]

Facilities management is the key to modern empires. the empire builds stable structures/organizations and fills them with people who can delegate authority and maintain the status quo, while the majority of people pursue bread and circus.

[@cartermclaughlin2908]

55:00 As a well off white guy, I call BS on the quality of police interaction proportions. I'm sure poor people and minorities have WORSE interactions with cops, but I have had mostly negative interactions with police, and have been assaulted several times w/out provocation. Even if i were to be provocative, i have the BMI of a heroin addict and clearly pose no threat. Anyone focusing on the severity of police abuse DIVIDED by demographic is missing the point and dividing their power to effect change. Police are abusive tax collectors that enjoy inflicting power on anyone. Focusing the Floyd protests and ongoing discussion on race is destructive to our goal. I went to as much BLM as i could (but had newborn) and while everyone i spoke with agreed the problen was police abuse, not race, I still felt... off, like an interloper. I think lots of people had difficulty taking personal ownership of the movement; like any participation they could ever contribute could never rise above the level of virtue signaling for a seperate portion of the population. If you deny people direct ownership of the cause, you'll lose a lot of them when the police start beating them.

[@MrWhitecloth8]

Brothers, my humble suggestion is to let your guests talk and y’all ask questions. With our sisters, let them talk. Ask good questions though.

[@neshaminybeads2362]

Contribute to collective leadership

[@Rick_Riff]

No better intro for any news show! Great metal! Nail bomb? Portal? Anyone know the artist?

[@blackraventrails639]

Hour in about “upsetting the Apple cart” Sounds like a book about capitalism titled something like the relationship between the owner and the slave.

[@justanotherguy1794]

Pascal Robert Pascal Robert Pascal Robert !!!!!!!!!!!!

[@jgalt308]

The aid these people are referring to was part of the Social Security Program, where the husband dies with minor children...and as part of this program it was not race-based, but available to anyone who contributed to this program, and it didn't begin until 1939. A.k.a "survivors benefits" and can be collected by widowers, widows, and children.

[@LaFinAbsoluteduMonde]

John Galt, that's not totally correct. It was originally race based when it rolled out in Roosevelt administration (Teddy) as a death benefit for white widowed women. So I have no idea where you're getting this idea from? Even single mothers weren't allowed the benefit.

[@jgalt308]

@@LaFinAbsoluteduMonde Since the reference was to both the thirties and the "new deal", the program that fits is the "survivor benefits" as part of Social Security...and that is not "raced based". ( and this part of the program is still active ) As for any program initiated by T.R. which would pre-date even "income taxes"...any specific reference as to its name or the legislation would be appreciated. One wonders what mechanism of the federal government would be responsible for the distribution of such benefits were such a program to exist. And the J is just a J

[@tbr7921]

​@@LaFinAbsoluteduMonde was the policy written in a racist way and or implemented that way?

[@LaFinAbsoluteduMonde]

@@tbr7921 early they were state run, so they barred Blacks with "Separate But Equal" 1896

[@tbr7921]

@@LaFinAbsoluteduMonde got it thanks, I wasn't tracking well based on the comments what the time frame/geographic location was...

[@toolguyslayer1]

If your phone or PC or overheating put on the airplane mode for a little while about 10 seconds sometimes there is an indicator saying that you are offline wait till it shows up and then turn it back on a bug could be on your device it could be third party or it could be you or a combination of the two although not necessarily a bad thing

[@bryaneddy2647]

14:55 is BARS

[@user-vw9nx5oy3i]

Please keep it simple simply because some black people can become easily confused or turned off by much of the conversation.

[@ashishpandya429]

Hello, first time viewer here, and my goodness, how eloquent and poignant are all the arguments that come from reading between the lines. I was shook when Dr. Joy James mentioned that it makes sense for racists to bring in some blacks into the big house, as when ignorant of the intent in creating a useful hedge against revolutionary actions by majority that left outside. And shook again, when the Big House is a metaphor for any intuition, including higher education.

[@DecolonizingHealing]

I wonder if Freedom university is an example of an alternative space to the university for critical knowledge exchange.

[@rawnzambie9772]

A brave new world - consumption is life. Life is consumption.

[@adventuresntoto]

54:10 - Yes, this is where I think certain texts like "Righteous Discontent" by Evelyn Brooks Higginbotham becomes useful. It makes me think that the Black church (and other organizations) spent the 20th century separating Black people into a "desirable" class and the "undesirable" class. What I don't like is that whenever this is discussed, people immediately go to Black Elite like politicians or celebrities instead of the intraclass dynamics of the hood where you have the working class (PMC like social workers and teachers, trade jobs, correctional officers, transportation drivers, warehouse workers, etc), the working poor (janitors, service workers, etc), and the nonworking poor. It's mostly the nonworking poor who face police violence the most because they tend to do illicit jobs, if they do work, and are breaking misdemeanor laws or doing morally repugnant actions. The other two groups become impacted if there is a wildcat racist on the force or if a certain officer have beef with an individual -- situations that could make the admin remove them if enough pressure is applied.

[@adventuresntoto]

And absolutely about Black people not inherently having revolutionary potential. We are a product of the society we are raised in, and that is an inherent patriotic, moderate conservative, capitalist one. Teenagers will beat the shit out of homeless, trans and queer, and disabled people because the society sees these three groups as undesirables. For disabled people, there are programs to help them assimilate and become desirable, but the ones who can't manage that are undesirable. And this is all with the knowledge that teenagers are an oppressed group. They still have no problem harming other groups--adults or teenagers like themselves. This is relevant when discussing the intraclass dynamics of the hood. It's all fucked up.

[@blackfreud9048]

Black academics are concerned about tenure and security.

[@robertfelts8773]

Great show

[@reginaldburnbridge2217]

Talking in circles.

[@canelover9033]

It's interesting listening to this conversation. Sounds like Yvette Carnell all up and through it.

[@RoyalAlkebulan]

🧡🧡🧡🧡🧡

[@peterduncan-smith463]

Thank the lord we dont have to put up with this

[@ljordan222]

imho the key difference between the descendants of U.S. freedmen, and slaves is, the effect that chattel slavery had in destroying the african family structure of slaves. family is the vehicle for all human acculturation, and socialization. the separation of african tribes into breeding plantation colonies without members of the same tribe, and the removal of the "talking drum" that connected people who could not speak the same language, virtually destroyed african culture in the american colonies, and dehumanized the slaves. a generic negro(black) was created in dormitory style slave quarters, men separated from women, bred and worked for economic considerations. the practical need for religion, is teaching ethical culture through the family. the new family of chattel slaves was the plantation(a system of abuse and terror). the new ethical culture centered around submission and obedience to a person who owned you, like he(or she) owned their other animals and property. this new-world animal husbandry, over a century or so, created generally a two-tier slave population: house(acculturated to european taste, and values) and field(bred for high production value,brawn over brain) slaves. house slaves were allowed to develop "normal" family structure like that of freedmen. i say all that to say this: the experiment in breeding africans in the U.S has created chaste of african americans. some slaves, have had something taken away from them, that nobody has figured out(or even noticed!!) how to replace. for their descendants (an under-class, pariahs) the slums of this nation have become their home and poverty their destiny, even after open-housing legislation, upward-bound programs, blah, blah,blah! poor people do on street corners, what middle-class and rich folk, do behind closed doors! then get locked-up for it! we are a multicultural society, not some binary racial(cultural) society. the most eloquent reasoning on a false dichotomy,however nuanced,is high sounding nonsense. the use of a black/white template to understand the world and life has serious rounding errors. a finer grayscale template, might reveal detail lost with a black/white template!

[@robert-vx3jq]

what happened to michael bill clintons son i pray for him to be ok and his family..mrs r...can some one find out ?