JT Eberhard: Why the Arguments For God Fail

For more information, visit: freethoughtfestival.org
AHA @ UW - Madison: wiscatheists.blogspot.com/
Madison Area Coalition of Reason: unitedcor.org/mad/
JT Eberhard is an SSA Campus Organizer specializing in High School groups. He co-founded the Missouri State University Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, which became one of the nation's largest college skeptic groups. He is most recognized as the co-founder of the Skepticon annual convention. Now in its third year, JT has been the lead organizer since Skepticon's inception and has appeared as the emcee during the first two years and as a speaker the last two years.

[@Doeyhead]

"You can not judge God by human standards" Yet God can judge me by his standards?

[@moodyplus]

Yup, I believe that's how this one-way street goes, because god.

[@moodyplus]

***** Can you prove that assertion?

[@Doeyhead]

***** My Parents made me and they don't judge me by their standards. Nor did they judge me when I was a child by their standards.

[@pdoylemi]

***** So what? That doesn't preclude us from judging him by our standards.

[@vielbosheit]

+Doeyhead Dogs can't judge humans by dog standards, but humans can judge dogs by human standards. Nobody seems to have a problem with that though.

[@PainefulMass]

I wish I could upvote this many, many times. So good! I've seen several of his talks, and this is his best in my opinion.

[@crazyprayingmantis5596]

Two big problems that I encounter in my experience talking to believers. 1. Not one person has yet to provide a clear coherent definition of what this thing is they call God? 2. Most believers didn't arrive at their belief by using logic and reason, so no amount of logic and reason will change their minds. (and some of them will openly admit that) I think most of them believe for emotional reasons and no amount of logic and reason will suffice

[@JamesRichardWiley]

Exactly. Most people call it a feeling (The Holy Spirit). I call it energy. It's you.

[@sophonax661]

Crazy prayingmantis Yes that's often the case, because they simply call everything or anything god they do not understand in the first place.

[@jitakyoei4548]

Exactly. They weasel around the question, what they actually believe in, as if their faith depended on it... Guess they know it does.

[@YY4Me133]

@2:28 Parents who pray over a sick and/or dying child, rather than get medical attention, love their "salvation" more than they love their child. I've seen too many christians say they love their god more than they love their children, because their children can't "save" them.

[@JamesRichardWiley]

My mother was that way also, and she wondered why I didn't love her or her god.

[@marinnito]

THIS IS ONE OF THE BEST VIDEOS OF THIS KIND.

[@rodneyriggs3365]

This is the best video I have ever seen, bar none!

[@SteveIronside]

Hard to believe this was 10 years ago! Great video

[@enque01]

That was BRILLIANT speaking skills and the best use of visual aids i've seen all year. I salute you.

[@iaov]

I was there for this conference. It was fantastic and I have taken JT's words to heart. Hold their feet to the fire!!

[@mikef.530]

Hopefully not while you and they are at work. You walk up and talk to me about this while I'm at work.. you won't have a job afterwards. And if you do keep your job.. I will sue the company for condoning religious discrimination at the workplace. Have a great day. :)

[@Mariomario-gt4oy]

Mike F. Shut.the fuck up and quit whining

[@mikef.530]

Mario Pendic Truth hurts doesn't it? :) Not a damn thing you an do about it other than troll on the internet. hahahaha

[@jmitterii2]

I have to agree. Keep your religious discussions at work at a minimum. And only if the other agrees or you can tell its not causing either to get extremely irritated. The same goes for politics. Just make sure you're not making a hostile work environment. Its best to do it outside of work to people you're not forced economically to be with every week. There's a time and a place for everything. I personally don't like to bother discussing religious topics that much even with other atheists. The topics I like are more about science, maybe some politics, what they plan on doing for the day or weekend, vacations, trips, economics, and other topics. Religion and all that nonsense lately I just don't bother. Its a dubious topic that has no meaning to me other than to demonstrate we as a species are as intelligent as we think we are. We're idiots thinking magical ferry winkles will give us some magical life afterwards etc. etc. No thanks. And if you want to believe it. Keep it to yourself otherwise I'll begin to question your sanity.

[@Mariomario-gt4oy]

Mike F. Lol funny how u bitch non-stop

[@SteveFrenchWoodNStuff]

Great talk. Thanks.

[@TheUnbeliever]

Great video

[@ItsEasyIfYouThink]

This is simply brilliant. I love this guy!

[@bekacynthia]

that was just awesome!!

[@polak3015]

great presentation

[@bltorioles]

Great job Mr. Eberhard!! Big shout out to you!!!

[@johnmehoff6042]

Pretty good presentation of why argue, what's the main argument, what the distractions will be and other attacks.

[@matthewperry5121]

Keep up the fire thanks

[@YamPoop]

This needs to be louder!

[@Bl00dBl055um]

Wonderful! Go JT!

[@GReid-ol5gk]

It's an ok presentation, not sure if I agree with his stance on morality not being absolute. But that's a philosophical discussion to be had, really.

[@AR123457]

This bloke is fantastic, great lecturer.

[@BennyEternET]

Excellent and very entertaining ;)

[@keggerous]

great speaker

[@Optimatorz]

JT is just awesome.

[@chrisbonnett6783]

I love this video...."If you believe in a god you're worshiping your own ignorance." This is my new rebuttal. I'm going to use this nonstop. There's your bumper sticker.

[@mntribefan]

Amen JT!

[@simeonsamuel8495]

Much laughter but serious truths.

[@ianyboo]

Definitely watch it a few more times it will help cement the key points very well, and check out his debate when he partnered up with Matt Dillahunty (it's here on youtube) where they do some great tag-team stuff and really knock it out of the park.

[@HeyHeyHarmonicaLuke]

This was great! He was clear and funny, like Richard Carrier

[@MagnusCattus]

You're right about one thing "dogmatic bigotry that causes atheist movements". You hit the nail right on the head.

[@Emanoia]

Very good

[@luminyam6145]

J T is awesome!

[@RevengeofGothzilla]

lol @ the chalkboard "Ballsacks"

[@maximusreed9270]

You can convince yourself that gravity is suspended but at that point you've been overcome by delusion.

[@FireFlashMatt]

This guy makes some great points.

[@pilsung26]

JT Eberhard's credibility has already been secured. Now imagine how far you'll get when you're honest with who you are.

[@paulamccabe6588]

I continually encounter Christians who "ad hominem" me rather than discuss the apparent conflicts with their belief system.

[@snarky77005]

Besides that Genesis has been discredited as fact, the flood never happened, the gospels contain contradictions and revisions (listen to Bart Ehrman), and there is no evidence for god whatsoever: what is the problem with Christianity anyway?

[@Jibrilfm]

1.The flood was a part of the book of Genesis and was an allegory. You didn't look at the deeper meaning. 2.Please list one of these contradictions. 3.Here is the evidence: there is a cause for everything, especially life. There is plenty of evidence to prove a Creator is real. Life itself did not come to existence by a random compilation of protein molecules. Even if there were raw materials needed to assemble protein molecules, the probability of an average-to-primitive type of protein molecule arising are 10 to the 65th power. Moreover, the odds of a simple cell, far more complex than a protein structure, assembling together are 10 to the 40,000th power. It has been scientifically proven that any event in the universe with of 10 to 50th power or greater occurring is impossible. By reason and logic, there has to be a supernatural Creator causing these occurrences. In addition, there are legitimate cases of supernatural occurrences and miracles, including the Miracle of the Sun at Fatima, Portugal and the famous Shroud of Turin.

[@snarky77005]

Gabriel Yesus 1. Some people take Genesis literally, some don't. 2. Here's a huge list for you: skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/by_name.html 3. There is ample evidence that humans evolved from other forms of life and the process of evolution does not require a creator. There are some things that we still don't know, but that is not a reason to commit an argument from ignorance fallacy. 4. The shroud of Turin is a proven fake. I don't know much about the other miracles so I'm not going to comment on that.

[@Jibrilfm]

snarky77005 As I said previously said, one is not meant to take every single fact and historical related verse. Most, if not all these "contradictions" are merely a glaring, and shallow, conclusions that are about irrelevant subjects drawn to criticize Christians.

[@JamesRichardWiley]

Christianity offers the "good news" that The Man in the Sky died to prove his love for you, despite all the ways you have injured him. All you have to do is beg his forgiveness, worship him and send more money. "Born bad, commanded to be good." Christopher Hitchens on God.

[@Pranav-rp8wi]

@@Jibrilfm well.. when you have a billion years and billions and billions of moelcules... Abiogenesis doesn't seem to impossible.. And even if it was completely impossible then the answer comes - we don't know.. You don't solve a mystery by appealing to another mystery.. it's just a coping mechanism.. When your whole premise revolves around the cause effect thing..you don't get to make a special pleading for the thing you are trying to prove.. that's dishonesty.. If you can claim that god doesn't need a beginning then.. your cause effect thing falls flat .. Just be a bit open minded and cope with the fact that we don't know..

[@Motamid]

No one said our ability to reason and understand stinks. What Eberhard said in this video was that our senses can fool us and that our intuition can often be wrong. This is precisely why we need to use the scientific method and our ability to reason in order to uncover the true causes of the things we perceive.

[@captainchaos3667]

Were you on before or after PZ? I noticed it in his video too... :)

[@suomik1988]

If only I could remember all those things when I talk to one of my religious fundie family members. I guess I'll have to watch the video a few more times.

[@b1bbscraz3y]

how did he do that magic trick? is there an explanation to how or why it appeared to go through her arm? im so confused

[@teresabonita1505]

Not because they want him to lose but rather because they want the truth

[@GaryWilliamslifeonthenets]

sounds great

[@Optimatorz]

PS Love the Porkins reference...stay on target!

[@nordy2010]

LOL That was an awesome presentation! I've just become a fan of this guy!

[@24601h]

Notice the similarity between infection and faith? Both are most likely to strike you when you're most unfit in physical or mental state. Conversely infection and faith are least likely to affect you when you're physically fit and mentally happy/healthy.

[@captainchaos3667]

I want to congratulate the person who wrote "ballsacks" on the chalkboard.

[@Iverath]

Where can I see more of JT? Has he done any debates besides the one with Matt Dillahunty?

[@Farmfield]

I meant it as some kind of substantial number. I've read the biggest support for creationism outside America is in Australia, but even there it's not very strong. The idea have very little followers in Europe, so I don't know if I'd call it 'well established' - but I never meant it as 'it doesn't exist here', I know it does. It's just not comparable to the movement in the US on any level, groups lobbying for creationism to be taught in schools a.s.o...

[@Beery1962]

Great presentation, but I keep getting distracted by the fact that J.T. Eberhard looks exactly like Pauly Shore.

[@BlatzBeer]

Ian Cooper Notice that you never see J.T. Eberhard and Pauly Shore in the same room at the same time. Just sayin'.

[@KuromixLara]

When I said that God was outside the scientific and logical realm, I meant that we ultimately won't find any certainty about God by using scientific or logical methods (not that they shouldn't try of course). How do I justify belief, or why should you be convinced? These are personal questions and my answer won't be yours. For me it is (a.o.) the mystery of why there is something so complex instead of nothing at all, the beauty of science, the amazing story of Jesus, the moral principle, etc.

[@Dj84JA2]

There is a difference between servants and slaves. Servants choose their masters while slaves cannot. This passage is basically explaining that bosses should be fair and just to their workers because they too have a higher boss they answer to.

[@squirreljester2]

22:30 If you star at the squares for a bit, you can make them be the same color.

[@combatives]

JT is right and funny all at the same time...I wish he spoke more on logical fallacies but then again we can't have it all all the time :)

[@mrpurple314]

"Ballsacks" is written on the board behind him.

[@scurburg4206]

Sorry for multi posts. As for punishment your other half asked about, its again depending of how bad the society thinks the act was but in a basic sense the main punishment is that society will reject you therefore losing the benefits. (think I pointed this out before)

[@pdoylemi]

I've always found the concept a bit creepy. I always found the scene in the "Avengers" movie where Loki forces a crowd to kneel before him to be very reminiscent of this idea when Loki say, " Is not this simpler? Is this not your natural state? It's the unspoken truth of humanity, that you crave subjugation. The bright lure of freedom diminishes your life's joy in a mad scramble for power, for identity. You were made to be ruled. In the end, you will always kneel."

[@steveharvey4245]

This is all good stuff here and most importantly it absolutely does matter that we talk to people who believe in things without evidence. At issue are the claims and any actions based on the claims, such as people dying from faith healing claims. If god, faith, and prayer cannot heal amputees then it won't heal anything else either. Studies have shown that prayer is ineffective on patients. Not only that, but it actually caused additional stress on the patients. It would be silly and unpopular to continue making the claim of faith healing when we have evidence to the contrary.

[@MsDyannka]

Think this way people: if you believe in God and it turns out He doesn't exist, you have nothing to loose, but if you don't believe in God and He actually does exist, you loose everything. It's sad to see how more and more people become toys in the devil's hands.

[@lancethrustworthy]

I'd like JT, or someone, to do a good video of the very most standard questions the deluded ask of the secular, and the good powerful answers/responses. 1.Where do you get your morals? 2.Where do you go after death? 3.'Who' made the universe? 4.Why are you an Atheist? 5.Why not believe? (Pascal's Wager) 6.What are you going to do if you appear before 'god' after death? 7.Why isn't that tree proof of god? 8.If I came from ape, why are there still apes?

[@jjguigs1614]

is 80% of the worlds population deluded ?

[@RobBates]

***** and *why* would a god who supposedly isn't a respector of persons have such niche groups of chosen people, and leave the rest in their "deluded" state?

[@jjguigs1614]

Rob Bates it's a choice to either believe in God or not.

[@lancethrustworthy]

Religion comforts and cripples. That's the truth. Real men seek that actual truth, not shitty bronze-age fairy tales. I wouldn't give a damn what you believe, but people tend to act on their beliefs as evidenced by the crappy state of the USA currently. Religion comforts...and cripples.

[@jjguigs1614]

faith in God does not equal religion,

[@MagnusCattus]

That was quite the emotional outburst you just had. Well I'll know not to mess with you again lol

[@Spartan120]

8:28 A common subject in the debates between Lennox & Dawkins.

[@rrdab1]

We can only hope that education will prevail.

[@DarrylJordanOLW]

Apart from the adolescent tone of the talk, presumably geared towards the audience demography, this is a well-reasoned and -presented apologia for the plausibility structure of atheism. Christian apologists could profitably start here to know what we're up against and construct rebuttals accordingly.

[@scurburg4206]

And to add another of my previous questions that you avoid, how and what morals has god given us according to you?

[@DollaramaShopper]

5:50 "As if they didn't have the fortitude to withstand..." I think he means will (saving throw). Truth (DC: 15, Will negates).

[@frankielee77]

We are going to face tragedies,to be sick,be in great sorrows,lost good friends,and die. What to do with our Sins? Come to Christ,the saviour!

[@robvlob]

"...and Im a scientist." I is two

[@GaryWilliamslifeonthenets]

This is a sad world and its hard to see God sometimes. i do understand why you dont believe and my heart breaks for people like yourself. i dont mean to preach or condescend. You will be in my prayers till the day i die =) thats all i can really do.

[@emperor0013]

Because we tend to be a happier society as ethical, moral people. Your question is rather redundant.

[@syystomu]

I find psychology to be a powerful ally. And in fact almost irreplaceable tool when trying to get people to be sensible, because a lot of these issues are in fact psychological. Cognitive biases are greatly in effect here and they work against reason and logic more than anything else. So even if you give a convincing argument it can often have the opposite effect if you word it wrong or don't take the opponents mental status into account. We all know the "reverse psychology" phenomenon.

[@vincentlecornu1297]

This is going to be an awesome hell: Crime rates continue to plummet, infant mortality is falling, longevity is increasing, diseases are being treated more and more effectively, sexually transmitted diseases are down, divorce is going down, and many other measures of societal health are improving. And no, people were not more moral or more happy in the past - take a look at the historical record. The only concession I make is that people work more hours now and get less sleep.

[@Asenetic]

1) Why would I lie if I even made it clear that the fact Im a scientist is irrelevant? 2) Why would you believe me?

[@KhyrisEidan]

I mean that in the way of turning from their sin and repenting and putting their trust and faith in him.

[@YamPoop]

I'm on my highest volume setting.

[@seethegalaxy]

jt is fine. he's doing great work.

[@ShrodingerFu]

I would say he has an obligation to treat that person with respect, rather than coddling them suggesting that maybe they just can't handle reality. And if the space cadets in question are sitting in the pews, they are spreading their credulous acceptance of absurd propositions; and they will necessarily get caught in the crossfire when examining what leads some religious people to dangerous extremes.

[@hoffinatorable]

I am a Christian who would like to talk with the kind of people that are in this room. Where can I find these people?

[@squirreljester2]

Because "secular morality" is against all of those deaths too, the same way you are. We just came to that conclusion because of our own morality, not because someone else told us what our morality should be.

[@scurburg4206]

"More rational yes" So how is insulting someone just because they disagree with you rational>?

[@walterwhite7554]

Psalms 137:9 "Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones." Exodus 21:20-21 "Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property." Deut 22:28 "If a man happens to meet a virgin and rapes her and they are discovered, he must marry the young woman. He can never divorce her as long as he lives."

[@MsDyannka]

Can you feel the atom? Can you see the atom? You will say no, but the atom does exist.

[@MagnusCattus]

case in point ^

[@Queposfishadventure]

And after we removed prayer, we added school shootings. Good job, Hi Five, keep up the good work.

[@ilovefetaflan]

Please enlighten me on what that evidence is please.

[@blazearmoru]

What is good is only good because the object of your piety deemed it good, and has consequences. What is bad is only bad because the object of your piety has deemed it bad, and that too has consequences. Your piety is based on the assumption that it has a purpose for certain results. If there were no consequences, then all is permissible. If the object of your piety didn't care, then all is permissible. My question : Why not isolate the goal and reach it with reason and discussion?

[@PainefulMass]

1. What does this have to do with anything? 2. No he's not (not that it matters). Watch the end of Dear Christian 2 at Skepticon 5. He proposes to his girlfriend.

[@frostDev]

that hat lol

[@Thecalyboi]

me too, but then i got a hummer

[@noyes5082]

No trolling intended here. I enjoyed this video. I was a good summary of all the arguments i have had with myself and why i find it difficult to be religious. I do get actual benefit from what i call praying or meditating which i guess is self examination and quiet time to organize my thoughts. I do ask God for assistance. Any way I think God is here because I'm here. So in summary i believe in an eternal designer rather that and eternal universe existing on its own. I'm not looking for a fight.

[@noyes5082]

Yolanda i was being genuine.

[@noyes5082]

You have only insulted me. I have made no claims about truth or evidence. My goal was to share the dichotomy that exist within me where i simultaneously agree that there is unsatisfactory evidence for God but yet I appeal to him and seek him. I;m not at all satisfied with this cognitive dissonance and your efforts to mock me don't seem to reveal a thoughtful consideration of my situation.

[@noyes5082]

+yolanda jerginson Cool! Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I will try to clarify my position. 1. I'm here. I don't assert that go exists because I am here, although i see how my previous statements could be construed that way. Surely my existence does not necessitate gods existence. 2. I pray meditate, not frequently enough in my opinion, because i believe it is beneficial. Appealing to god is part of the prayer/meditating scenario for me. I don't know if he exists and listens but i do act as though he does. 3. I don't know where the universe came from but assume that there are two options, god exists and he made it or it made itself. 4. Yes i simultaneously do those two things. That was really hard to do and I am not completely satisfied with my answers. Thank you for taking he time to read . I hope we can chat more but only if you find it beneficial or enjoyable. I am about to go out for dinner and have a drink. I wont respond tonight. I sometimes think i'm more clever when i have had a few drinks and its just not true.

[@noyes5082]

Yolanda , I am completely guilty of googling you and i found out that some one with your name just went to Dallas. The funny thing is that i just went to Dallas too. I've been here since Wednesday. Sorry if this seems creepy but that is the extent of it.

[@noyes5082]

Hah! that's cool. I retrospect i see the creepiness.

[@TheRealOrous]

The atom can be demonstrated with electron-scopes. High grade materials that are built with atomic force in mind end up holding together. On the flip side: I've yet to be shown any god (and no, being told I have to 'open my heart' isn't a demonstration). I've never believed in any god and my life still works pretty well without it.

[@rrdab1]

As an atheist, I do not see any good proselytizing to the faithful. Most will - as Richard Dawkins said - simply not listen. Logic, commonsense, free thought and intellect are on our side, but pointing this out, in my experience, simply produces antagonism, is futile and counter productive. Education is the key. Teach the children to be free thinkers who question. Sadly, most adult theists are too far gone to help but, if they want it, enlightenment awaits. Just don't preach to them.

[@robvlob]

Right because like your invisible friend you know everyone's thoughts I guess.

[@Ben4Real]

His discussion of miracles was in response to the claim that the Bible is totally consistent with science. If it contains events that are supposedly unnatural events, then it's not consistent with science, and that argument of theirs should be thrown out.

[@KeeganIdler]

When people say such a thing they mean that the two systems of thinking are not mutually exclusive (unless of course you take the Bible literally, but I don't think many literalists say that the Bible and science are consistent).

[@ShrodingerFu]

I see you don't understand I'm talking about informal science. Most of us aren't going to place our hands in fire a second time to see if it burn every time. But these basic observations are still science. (And yes, I am.)

[@robertellis1281]

we believe you think they do -----the arguments for God ----- God doesn't just believe in you He created you

[@ilovefetaflan]

How is that evidence exactly?

[@vincentlecornu1297]

You can't fight language. Americans (as in citizens of the United States of America) use the term "America" to refer to the United States. End of discussion. I don't like the fact that people overuse the word "myself" in grammatically incorrect ways, but I'm wise enough to know that languages have a life of their own.