“Masturbation is sinful" Exclusive prompt now on Patreon 👉 www.patreon.com/jubileemedia
@YoYoWaddupBro4 ай бұрын
I would really like it if we could break the "judeo-christian" narrative and have a jews vs christians episode. Christians love to use "judeo-christian" to explain Christian beliefs that don't at all represent Judaism.
@trumpdanusan4 ай бұрын
but Joseph boning under age house keeper ok fannie algier lets not talk about that lol
@FerretCuddles4 ай бұрын
@@YoYoWaddupBro How about your demographic stops building tunnels under cities and stocking them with children's clothing and mattresses?
@YoYoWaddupBro4 ай бұрын
@@FerretCuddles and what is my demographic lmao
@FerretCuddles4 ай бұрын
@@YoYoWaddupBro Your defensiveness speaks volumes. For anyone reading this thread, look into memory holed topics such as: The deliberate attack on the USS Liberty. The Lavon Affair. The LA Weisberg Scandal. The "'Catholic"' Immigration League. The Lawyers Guild (and their funders). The child trafficking rings owned and run by the IDF operating in South America after Ukraine got too much State Department attention in the early '10s. The connection between Jeffrey Epstein and the **ws who control the computer system used by federal law enforcement. And last, but certainly not least, the people who ran the FTX scam and where that money was funneled.
@MissH2214 ай бұрын
Having a moderator sitting with them has really improved this show so much
@GEN4 ай бұрын
thank you! It was great moderating this episode
@w0ody164 ай бұрын
@@GEN Great work! You should be proud of this episode - the team hit it out of the park.
@lancelotle4 ай бұрын
Agreed
@aluf25674 ай бұрын
@@GENGreat job moderating. Just curious why you guys were bringing up statistics and definitions for the ex-mormon side, but non for the Mormon side? It seemed one sided due to that.
@zachfawor96494 ай бұрын
@@aluf2567as a non-mormon, there wasn't really a point in the video where the mormon side brought up a statistic or jargon word needing further explanation or understanding. the non-mormon side mentioned a specific passage without quoting in full, so showing the quote on screen helped contextualise the interpretation from both ends for me as someone unfamiliar with the passage being discussed. Was there an instance you felt needed on-screen contextualisation from the mormon side?
@user-ry5rf8or1q4 ай бұрын
NEED an episode of licensed therapists vs. life coaches
@siennafleming49134 ай бұрын
This would be very interesting!!!
@CindySmith-vd7xh4 ай бұрын
Omg yesss
@winston81864 ай бұрын
John’s wife is a life coach actually haha
@joclourey51184 ай бұрын
That is brilliant
@taylormefford29484 ай бұрын
@@winston8186 So is he. He has a PhD, but never got licensed and operates as a coach.
@SammieeeCx4 ай бұрын
I can honestly bet that if Mormons heard their perspective as another religion they would 100% think it’s a cult.
@rileyparish51494 ай бұрын
I was once a Mormon. I could identify other organizations like Scientology or Jehovah's Witness as "cults" or otherwise harmful religions, but it took a long time for me to recognize my own religion as such. Childhood indoctrination can be really tough to beat.
@danielclingen344 ай бұрын
They do! They call FLDS a cult, which ironically follow Joseph smith closer than they do.
@marcus.H4 ай бұрын
The word is so loosely defined though. At this point, it seems less of an actual statement and more of a perjorative that means almost nothing at this point
@JerryRiverofCars4 ай бұрын
No
@cominginsecond4 ай бұрын
@@danielclingen34 That's a total lie and you're completely ignorant.
@tinman35864 ай бұрын
I have leukemia. Can someone please lend me some of their "gayness" to ease my pain?
@HeatherFaraMS4 ай бұрын
Sexy
@ChristisLord20233 ай бұрын
The essence of his argument is ; I'd ignore God's commands if it got me 20 more years.
@MitskienthusiastАй бұрын
i got some i can spare hope it helps
@kennabee8558Ай бұрын
Yeah, here, I'm pretty rich in gay 😘✊️🏌♀️➡️🌈🌈
@Themoment888Ай бұрын
👩❤️👩💑🌈
@LauraRamirez-qc1zx4 ай бұрын
"don't you think that on my leukemia death bed, I wouldnt trade for some gayness?" is one of the most insane hypotheticals ive ever heard
@outwardbound22414 ай бұрын
Absolutely
@breebell4684 ай бұрын
Some gay Mormons would literally rather be dead than gay in the church soooo
@tracythorpe18564 ай бұрын
[Leukemia] … “I would take a little bit of Tember’s gayness.” Haha, just a little, but most certainly not the the whole kit and caboodle gayness!!
@ryangtromero4 ай бұрын
This is an example of the hoops Mormon’s have to jump through to rationalize belief.
@TxRhimself4 ай бұрын
Yeeeah the Mormons lost me on that 😬 No middle ground here, the Mormons got cooked lol
@curly_bill4 ай бұрын
Tember saying he’s attracted to men, but married a woman instead because of religion is one of the saddest things I’ve ever heard
@OntheOtherHandVideos4 ай бұрын
Ya, how sad how we talks about the joy of fatherhood and the love he has for his wife. . . 0.o
@curly_bill4 ай бұрын
@@OntheOtherHandVideos From the way he spoke about it, it sounded more like his fulfillment comes from completing tasks placed on him by the church rather than something that would just come naturally to him.
@OntheOtherHandVideos4 ай бұрын
@@curly_bill You should look up the many interviews he has done - that is not the case at all.
@tefanyharward66144 ай бұрын
We are genuinely happy. It’s really not that sad. 🤷🏽♀️
@curly_bill4 ай бұрын
@@tefanyharward6614 is he bi or just gay? Cause if he’s just gay, does it not hurt to think that he may not be sexually attracted to you? I don’t ask this to hurt your feelings, just genuinely curious because this is a very unique situation. I am an ex mormon btw
@j00dles4 ай бұрын
I DIED WHEN SHE ASKED THEM TO NAME THE RELIEF SOCIETY PRESIDENT
@madyhatter174 ай бұрын
😂
@reneerichardson543 ай бұрын
I know 😭 and I bet they honestly could name at least 10 apostles
@hannahbeyer2613 ай бұрын
Case closed
@austinjefferies97952 ай бұрын
I’m 16 I can name her, her name is sister Johnson. The reason they may not know is because she was called just over a year ago and has only spoke a few times. I bet most people can’t name the young men’s president either
@piercewilson59152 ай бұрын
@@austinjefferies9795I think that’s the point. She’s arguably the most powerful woman in our church and she has barely been given the chance to speak. She doesn’t even get to choose when she will speak to the members: men choose that. The prophet and his counselors and all the apostles speak to all the members at least 2-3 times a year. I know the desire to defend the church is so strong, but you have to think about this non-member perspectives. Imagine a workplace where the ceo, the board, and the managers were only held by men and their were rules in place to keep woman from those jobs. It would be super sexist. Members don’t feel that about the church because there is a spiritual side where the promised blessings are more equal but for those who don’t believe the church’s claims on future blessings the here and now just looks like a backdated sexist organization.
@proctorritter51764 ай бұрын
The fact that Cardon developed an “I’m suffering, so why shouldn’t the rest of the world suffer with me?” mindset instead of an “I’m suffering, but that doesn’t mean that others have to” mindset after getting diagnosed with leukaemia is very telling of the kind of person he is
@outwardbound22414 ай бұрын
Amen
@TheeOldest4 ай бұрын
Yes
@abbydenison35743 ай бұрын
he’s definitely bitter
@proctorritter51763 ай бұрын
@@abbydenison3574 and bitter people usually exude bitterness unless they become unbitter
@xKillxSwitchxАй бұрын
For real
@simopen4 ай бұрын
does he not know that gay people also get leukemia? 😂
@emma76944 ай бұрын
LMAOOO
@valentinat32504 ай бұрын
Bingo
@knocknockify4 ай бұрын
Double negative makes a positive, they get to go to heaven now 😂
@whitneyannethomas4 ай бұрын
Probably not 🫠
@madyhatter174 ай бұрын
LMAO 😂
@jonasjodicke2174 ай бұрын
It’s funny how the Mormons did a better job convincing me Mormonism is a cult than the ExMormons. 😂
@madisonbarksdale92554 ай бұрын
They did allot of that throughout the debate 😅omg
@exmorobo4 ай бұрын
That’s why the mormon church controls what it’s members say publicly so much. 😬
@AlzMarioWolfe4 ай бұрын
LMAOOO that’s exactly what made me leave Catholicism too
@boejiden17154 ай бұрын
@@AlzMarioWolfeCatholicism isn’t a cult tho
@Jrod-4 ай бұрын
True
@josiahruffin29504 ай бұрын
The girl in the blue turtleneck seems like she’s highly confused in what she believes it like every single time she’s partly agreeing with the ex-Mormon side, but just falling back on her faith
@Pronoia_Subliminals4 ай бұрын
You could see the sheer hope on the ex-mormon womans face as she talked directly to a CONSCIOUS and AWARE mormon woman. That girl is waking up to the atrocities that go on there...
@clementine24443 ай бұрын
@@Pronoia_Subliminalsyesss I totally noticed that Jillian was smiling as she was listening to her!!
@flipflopsandsocks503 ай бұрын
@@clementine2444for real she was like let her cook!!
@abbydenison35743 ай бұрын
she’s a convert and has only been in the church for 5 years. on the mormon stories podcast they watched the video back and talked about how bella went out with them afterwards (she was the only mormon who decided to join them) and she told them she had felt a little embarrassed and she wanted to switch to their side.
@Scotter4536Ай бұрын
It's the mental gymnastics and cognitive dissonance. She'll probably be out in the next few years. It's hard to keep convincing yourself it's true once you start to see the light.
@cameronlooper51284 ай бұрын
As a non religious person, listening to people talking about all these regulations and rules that they have to abide by just to exist is wildddd.
@DanielRodriguez-kl7ul2 ай бұрын
I think that any modern State has a lot of rules and regulations, so I'd suggest we all kind of live that.
@smears60392 ай бұрын
@@DanielRodriguez-kl7ulyeah but at least they make sense in order for society to function, and if the majority disagrees then the rules are changed. Unlike the arbitrary rules imposed by religion, which are NOT to be questioned no matter what.
@asjsk8286Ай бұрын
I wish i was born in a non mormon family bc it’s honestly too much sometimes and it gives me anxiety
@hooman9554Ай бұрын
@@asjsk8286i'm sorry for you :(
@ellezatsepin9213 күн бұрын
its so crazy to think abt, they follow all these rules believing they’re going go to heaven
@joellegriffin16394 ай бұрын
Not Tember saying ,”oh yeah I used to be gay but now I have a wife and kids” and then in the next segment saying ,”as a gay member of the church.” 💀
@Old_and_Wise4 ай бұрын
Rather than being critical, let's give him the benefit of the doubt. I'm sure by him saying 'used to be gay' he was referring to living an actively gay lifestyle.
@beastshawnee4 ай бұрын
hey at least his wife knooows. The ones who think their husband is straight get brokenhearted.
@sjsjciskwmddjs59244 ай бұрын
Why do Mormon haters think of the negative all the time 😂
@chlyri4 ай бұрын
@@sjsjciskwmddjs5924 because it's a bigoted religion that hurts people?
@sjsjciskwmddjs59244 ай бұрын
@@tefanyharward6614 goalsss🙌
@celestemoss11414 ай бұрын
11:23 “Being gay is not a trial. Being gay in the church is a trial.” Such a slay by Jillian 🙌
@OntheOtherHandVideos4 ай бұрын
Yes, and she followed that up by attacking "wHite men", because nothing says 'slay' like disparaging people for their race and sex . . .
@evanhil024 ай бұрын
Yes, nailed it! And having leukemia is no different than having leukemia in the church, probably easier in the church just because of the community help, depending on one's ward of course.
@Yourockrock244 ай бұрын
Instant tears. This was a mic drop.
@tressahale99834 ай бұрын
Being gay isn’t a trial?
@donii70924 ай бұрын
@@tressahale9983of course it is. Homosexuality is condemned in the bible
@MrMeow194 ай бұрын
Not two white men walking up when asked if women are equal 😂😂😂
@femme.laurentienne4 ай бұрын
I am always amazed when I see comments like this one. How can you be so alienated lol. Stop victimizing people and get a life. - a métis woman
@JerryRiverofCars4 ай бұрын
Are they not allowed to have opinions?
@nurnoir4 ай бұрын
@@JerryRiverofCarsthey’re allowed to have an opinion just like we’re allowed to point out the silliness of their opinion
@madyhatter174 ай бұрын
😂
@JerryRiverofCars3 ай бұрын
@@nurnoir Yeah and that’s chill. Just don’t get how it’s funny that they think that.
@schtaiv4 ай бұрын
“when i think of a cult, i think of an organisation that is really controlling and they dont let you exercise freedom or autonomy” my friend, that is what mormonism does
@nomollyshere4 ай бұрын
And Cardon’s arguments about how, for example, Apple is a cult…and it is!! Cult comes from culture and not all cults are bad OR are created equal. That’s why things like the BITE model help to codify whether it’s a bad cult or simply a mass following cult where no one loses the ability to choose to differently (like buying Android).
@pcoleman25624 ай бұрын
Exactly. I was taught to always censor my own thoughts and never even temporarily entertain even the hypothetical possiblity that the church isn't true. And then they commanded me to wear their special underwear, never have coffee, tea, alcohol, donate thousands of dollars and thousands of hours of time. They pressured me to pay to go on a mission and endure incredible abuse while being incomunicado with my family and never having privacy, access to outside information, or my passport, for two years. They controlled every major decision of my life. And they achieved all this control over my life through indoctrination, shame, and those mental blinders they purposely installed in my mind. It's definitely a cult.
@aryannacisneros1670Ай бұрын
Yup
@obamna6664 ай бұрын
I wonder how Cardon would feel if he weren’t allowed in the temple because he’s undergoing chemotherapy
@rheapelkey92654 ай бұрын
Damn , that’s real talk
@i0like0trains0kid4 ай бұрын
Gay people don’t have to practice a gay lifestyle.
@seekerandthinker4 ай бұрын
why not allowed? Is there a verse that said so?
@coffeedrinkingisnotasin60494 ай бұрын
@@seekerandthinkerit was in the sealed portion of the Book of Mormon. I have 3 wittnesses.
@Robert-rw5lm4 ай бұрын
Why?
@saoirse71674 ай бұрын
‘Men and women are equal in the church’ and only men step forward 😂
@bodytrainer1crane7304 ай бұрын
💯
@jaimeebeard6184 ай бұрын
They also only had 1 female on that side. It would have been nice if more women were included to see what multiple women of that faith feel. As a member, I would have stepped forward.
@marcellacruser9514 ай бұрын
@@jaimeebeard618 Not if you were being honest. What's really on your shelf?
@BradyReading4 ай бұрын
@@jaimeebeard618yeah I feel like the Mormon side of this conversation was not fully represented. There were a lot of young, relatively progressive, relatively “new” and nuanced members on the panel. Where were the lifelong members? Bring on the 40+ bishops and relief society presidents born in the covenant. I want to hear that perspective on LGBTQ+/race exclusion/polygamy/doctrinal change etc…. None of this nuanced progressive crap, where are the doctrinal purists?!?
@Mole-Esther4 ай бұрын
*in the church. The question is asking if in the eyes of the religion and the church are men and women equal.
@SylviaDragon4 ай бұрын
woof. When he said "I have a question for you girls" I was immediately thrown back into my mormon days and instantly reminded why i hate being called that now. that stuff happened a lot
@StinkycatzzАй бұрын
Men are called men but women are called girls in the Mormon church it’s gross
@BeingForeverBroken5 күн бұрын
I would say "I have a question for you guys" and I'm not infantilizing someone. It may just be a way of addressing people. Saying "I have a question for you people" sounds aggressive 😅 "I have a question for y'all" sounds Southern What's a better way of asking other than just saying "I have a question"?
@clare91315 күн бұрын
@@BeingForeverBrokenI have a question for you…… why gender it? Oh yeah, to condescend and have power over
@hanatemonstas44854 күн бұрын
@@BeingForeverBrokenGuys have been used for both men and boys. Girls literally means female children or adolescents. Saying “I have a question for the women” or “I have a question for the ladies” would have been miles, especially with the condescending tone.
@BeingForeverBroken4 күн бұрын
I guess I was also asking if there's an equivalent of guys for females that can be used for both girls and women? Do we have a neutral other than y'all?
@midithebee3 ай бұрын
cardon shows exactly the type of person that the church develops, my dad is so much like him. these men refuse to change and are so difficult to have a relationship with
@harryabelpotter96303 ай бұрын
Could it be that, instead of Cardon, you are the one who is so much like your father and that you are no more willing to change than he is ??? idk ... but the way to find middle ground with your dad is the same way as on this channel ~ have a chat.
@jenlebel6173 ай бұрын
@midithbee I know what you mean! It’s the ones who are the most extreme in their beliefs that seem to struggle to find nuance and understanding. I have family like him and others who aren’t - the difference between the relationships are like night and day. Hope things get better and that your dad’s heart softens.
@jenlebel6173 ай бұрын
@@harryabelpotter9630interesting that you would presume to know this commenter and their familial relationships better than they do.🙄
@margojanerock21 күн бұрын
FOR REAL
@evanc565610 күн бұрын
@@jenlebel617”Could it be”
@reyr.74394 ай бұрын
Prompt: Mormonism is homophobic Cardon: "I have Leukemia" Everyone:😢 Jillian: "Stop this nonsense"
@Matthew-ql1xl4 ай бұрын
Here’s another one for you. Tember: the priesthood ban was not doctrine. John: The first presidency said it was. Cardon: JOSEPH SMITH BAPTIZED BLACK PEOPLE
@sebragagnon10804 ай бұрын
“I am a firm believer in slavery , if a master has a Negro, and uses him well, he is much better off than if he was free.” - Brigham Young speaking before territorial lawmakers in 1852
@marksandsmith67784 ай бұрын
Er ... Brigham Young?
@Alohasnackbar694 ай бұрын
Bro took the pretend to be gay to pull girls too far
@carl24994 ай бұрын
lol when that guy said he had leukemia. cuz it was cynical begging for sympathy that had no relevance to the discussion
@loru90ate4 ай бұрын
The leukemia trade was a WILD drop
@vladtheimpalerofyourmom-ag51124 ай бұрын
It’s a solid get out of jail free card, many people wouldn’t have called him out on it.
@brynnaandersen77394 ай бұрын
Editing made it look worse. Look at Ward Radio’s reaction to this video. Different context.
@CosmicGumbo5554 ай бұрын
@@brynnaandersen7739Cardon has proven himself to be very disingenuous and borderline hateful in his rhetoric about people who leave the church. He doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt. It's his word that he was clipped out of context and that's worth very little to me
@brynnaandersen77394 ай бұрын
@@CosmicGumbo555 ok
@buttofthejoke4 ай бұрын
A lot of emotional gaslighting is typical in religious institutions. Oh, you're gay and suicidal because we say you're sinful? At least you don't have leukemia and I've more reasons to be emotional.
@KenzieTaylorlovekenziie4 ай бұрын
I would love an episode of “I changed my mind/stance” and bring ppl back who have flipped to the opposing side based off these conversations
@madyhatter174 ай бұрын
That'd be rad
@jake77693 ай бұрын
Id love to see this.
@rosiecatbandit4 ай бұрын
I'm just ugh. Ex Mormon after being a member for 35 years. Telling gay people they're gay because of the over-sexualization of society is just wrong! If only the straight Mormons would be forced to be gay for 2 seconds. Nobody really stopped to think about that suggestion.
@ryancook501517 күн бұрын
I’ll never forget what Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins said on the topic: “Homosexuality is not just a type of sex, it is a type of love.”
@doctorbea4 ай бұрын
The suit-and-tie-guy is basically the poster boy for everyone's issues with the church.
@scottvance744 ай бұрын
Ironically on his own channel (ward radio), he refuses to wear a suit and tie.
@boysrus614 ай бұрын
@@scottvance74 Coz on his own channel he doesn't represent the church and here he wanted to look all Priesthood Bishopy-like
@EricVMag4 ай бұрын
@@scottvance74 If a Native American came to a discussion on Native Americans using traditional Native American attire, would you see a problem with that?
@laurenmckinnon55074 ай бұрын
He’d certainly make me think twice if I was investigating joining and came across this
@scottvance744 ай бұрын
@@EricVMag Cardon does at least two programs. In his one about mormonism (Ward Radio), he wears a t-shirt. In his one about pest control (an outside, messy job), he wears a white shirt and tie. I just find it odd how he dresses differently for these two audiences.
@worldoffaeriehelpers91544 ай бұрын
I have a friend with leukemia. He doesn’t use it to try to win arguments.
@VincentNoot4 ай бұрын
I like Carson. I listen to his podcast. But I don’t think in this case his apples to apples comparison got his point across.
@DontDieSenpai4 ай бұрын
Probably because he's a moral person with a conscience and a brain. Cardon seems like the human being equivalent of a flaming brown bag on your doorstep.
@OntheOtherHandVideos4 ай бұрын
Yes, how dare someone . . . **checks notes** . . . try to empathize with someone going through something hard that isn't easily processable.
@FWWillis4 ай бұрын
@@OntheOtherHandVideoswhat exactly is hard about being gay?
@OntheOtherHandVideos4 ай бұрын
@@FWWillis Not being able to have biological children with a homosexual partner is pretty hard. We are kind of hard coded to want to have kids of our own.
@lani87224 ай бұрын
As an ex-mormon i was really interested in hearing this discussion. My non religious boyfriend started watching it next to me but as soon as he heard temper say he was gay but was happier married to a woman and having kids, he had to get up and leave out of frustration. That part alone is just so sad
@nomollyshere4 ай бұрын
I’m wondering if someone in his family threatened his $$ and that’s why he’s “happy” to chug the kool aid.
@HeatherFaraMS4 ай бұрын
@@nomollyshereyou called it. I watched that in Utah. But he used a woman to farm babies…so l feel no mercy.
@vicom134Ай бұрын
It’s not sad. He freely chose to be unhappy and go against his true self.
@alyese_0126 күн бұрын
I don't understand why people can't believe someone when they say they are happy. If I can beleive someone living a gay lifestyle even though I don't align with it morally, why can someone who doesn't agree with his decisions say he's being paid off or brainwashed somehow. That math isn't mathing.
@Jay-zw5cf4 ай бұрын
Jillian had so many comments that were just amazing, loved her and what she had to say, I was also so happy that she called out Cardon’s manipulative guilt tactic when talking about homophobia/queer people in the church, comparing leukemia with homosexuality is implying that homosexuality is the same as an illness. A horrible comparison and a very insensitive hypothetical to make. Not only that but he isn’t treated differently/poorly in church for having leukemia, it’s just not the same at all.
@lifetaketwo76624 ай бұрын
The way the men are “men” but the women are “girls” to Mormon dude. 😂
@merrileehansen19394 ай бұрын
YES! In the middle of a conversation about equality/sexism.
@savascha4 ай бұрын
I pushed myself to watch their podcast reaction to the video and it was excruciating, they were so condescending, kept only referring to Jillian as “green shirt girl” or the lesbian. It was gross.
@karissaseiersen2613 ай бұрын
Yes!! When the tie guy said “I have a question for you girls” Jillian smirked and I wanted her to correct him sooo bad.
@tb86543 ай бұрын
@@savascha hey, do you remember the name of their podcast?
@jesseellis31262 ай бұрын
My thoughts exactly
@Savannah-4 ай бұрын
It's very telling that the one mormon woman here is even able to recognize the gender issues in the church. Only the mormon men said no, and even when they gave the mormon woman a chance to speak, they werent really hearing her.
@NicoleUntch4 ай бұрын
The “where does it end?” argument. Like what? Are you afraid if you give women an inch of power they will take over?
@mazzoi2494 ай бұрын
@@NicoleUntch will you be satisfied with that?
@PROVOCATEURSK4 ай бұрын
@@NicoleUntch Have you heard of feminism and the destruction of the western world?
@boysrus614 ай бұрын
The LDS men were like... Let us tell you how you feel Bella.
@Sheilas4AlexJones4 ай бұрын
Look to be honest she isn’t really well informed so I wouldn’t hold too much weight on her comments, respectfully.
@abbeyhendrix15224 ай бұрын
shot every time Cardon says “codified”
@savascha4 ай бұрын
According to the ex-mo panelists, if you did that with the unedited version, you’d black out 😂
@christina.kleman3 ай бұрын
Shot every time Tember says Judeo Christian
@1yssainfo2 ай бұрын
he said it in sync when i read this comment
@SLAMSwanАй бұрын
It was the word of the day on his tear-away calendar. 🤣
@morningstoke3 күн бұрын
But Mormons can't drink lol Stop persecuting them!
@namisdoormat65364 ай бұрын
36:21 "skin of blackness" is in no way an idiom 😂
@treasurcanada5953Ай бұрын
Thhaaankkkkkkkk yooouuuu mybwhoke experience wrapped up in one sentence while learning about mormonism and going to churches. Noone could answer that question and they had a blackkk mormon call me to try to help me understand but he flatlined at the response also...their racist thats that
@mauriciodominguez46654 ай бұрын
The way Bella speaks is so indicative of what it’s like being a woman in the church. She was the most soft spoken, a lot of nervousness despite her bravery to speak up. Anyone closely familiar with the church would recognize her ‘missionary voice’ frequently coming in
@reneerichardson543 ай бұрын
she was so real.
@kristintaylor35473 ай бұрын
This was the saddest part to watch
@Amog162 ай бұрын
Totally disagree. That could be her personality. It could be a family thing. I was never taught to be quiet as a member. I say what I what I want and I'm never ashamed.
@haydenhodges342 ай бұрын
@@Amog16In all seriousness, Mormons like their women to speak quietly.
@LeBunBunsАй бұрын
yes. the higher pitch softer tone of submission learned is so very real.
@Katechap204 ай бұрын
“I got a question for you girls” is a great summation of Cardon’s apathy toward what women actually desire, to be treated like equal adults… not “girls”
@breebell4684 ай бұрын
This bothered me too. It seemed infantalizing
@jacobsamuelson31814 ай бұрын
Yeah they need to call us Lords and we call them ladies. We need to remove guys, boys, dudes, chaps, blokes, bros, for boys and girls, gals, chicks, misses, sister from our vocabulary and use more sophisticated titles like Men Lord, your highness, Dukes, Misters, Masters for men and Women, Ladies, Your Highness, Madame, Dames, and Mistresses for women. Then none of us would feel infantile.
@mazzoi2494 ай бұрын
ok Karen
@James-rf8ee4 ай бұрын
Seriously!
@user-ep4wu3uj4f4 ай бұрын
He really is a terrible person
@PreShitbox4 ай бұрын
The mental gymnastics that the Mormons try to make is astounding.
@sk3lli3b0i3 ай бұрын
REALLLL (coming from an exmo)
@thebigshark3014Ай бұрын
Mormon mentioned 🗣🔥🔥🔥
@younggrasshopper2334 ай бұрын
Thank you for adding a moderator finally, I feel as though there were many videos like this, where a moderator was very much needed, because one or more people would just take over the conversation
@simplykitcat14 ай бұрын
I love how the girls are like “maybe some more roles in the church” and the guy is like YOU WANT US TO REWRITE THE BIBLE
@HaveaBiscuitt4 ай бұрын
LITERALLY. his defense mechanism of leaping to the wildest and unrelated extremes had my jaw on the floor multiple times
@HunterRobinetteBrandon4 ай бұрын
@@HaveaBiscuittbro definitely learns his argument style from people like Ben Shapiro
@ConsommePanchi4 ай бұрын
Yeah but the bible lays out roles for the people in the church. So if women want roles that the bible doesn't say they can have then guess what? They want you to rewrite the Bible that is literally the only thing that can mean.
@Jack_Horner4 ай бұрын
@@ConsommePanchiLOL, no
@livingforapurposeee4 ай бұрын
They don't follow the Bible! They have changed the book and also have 5 more of their own books. Don't mix christians with mormons🙏🏼🤍
@kes1404 ай бұрын
"Can you name the Relief Society Presidency" was the nail in the coffin. The argument should've ended there.
@arturovega65224 ай бұрын
Loved the shocked Pikachu face reaction from most of the "priesthood holders" and then the one in the suit was like "I can't name half the apostles either" excuses, excuses.
@boysrus614 ай бұрын
@@arturovega6522 other than this is a blatant lie. He definitely knows who the first presidency and acting quorum of the 12 is. Even I can name probably name 10 of them. There is a primary song about the modern day prophets. Modern day prophets are number 1 Joseph Smith then Brigham Young. John Taylor came third you know then....etc. There is one about the 12 apostles but thankfully I no longer have kids in the primary and my grands don't sing it.
@Enos_Envy4 ай бұрын
The Mormon Coffin isn't big enough for all the nails the internet supplied.
@cullubbowzer80954 ай бұрын
@@arturovega6522bro rocked up to this thing in full bishop’s attire and he claims he doesn’t know all the apostles? Biggest lie since Mormonism itself 😂
@mirandascott95924 ай бұрын
In a reaction video to this Middle Ground Episode put out by Ward Radio (Kwaku + Cadron + others), they were laughing their asses off about how they didn’t know the RS president and were never going to even bother looking it up. Yet they claim women are treated equally…?
@MrMeow194 ай бұрын
The guy with the tie is so pissed because he keeps getting shut down 😂😂😂
@vicom134Ай бұрын
Tbh, he has ridiculous arguments though.
@jessw024 ай бұрын
how can kwaku say mormonism can't be a cult because it's 'not controlling' literally straight after tember said that he is gay but married to a woman because being gay isn't allowed in the church
@Zeett094 ай бұрын
Kwaku: Our church is not controlling! Outsider: Can you choose your own underwear? Kwaku: Well no.
@jeremybrown1578Ай бұрын
Stockholm syndrome
@Bradm904 ай бұрын
I love how John says he has a PHD and personally interviewed 1,600 current and ex-Mormons, gave his findings and then Tember says no because that’s not what he’s experienced 💀
@Old_and_Wise4 ай бұрын
Just wait till you hear how John recently had someone secretly follow and spy on a gay couple at church to see if they would be able to take the sacrament. After seeing they could, he made a KZbin video about it and used a photo of the gay couple for the video image without their permission. John may outwardly seem like he cares, but he's turned his disdain for the LDS church into his own personal money making machine. He constantly hassles his followers for donations. Whether they realize it or not, those who choose to follow and donate to John have simply traded in one religion for another.
@chlyri4 ай бұрын
@@Old_and_Wise how is that relevant to tember completely disregarding other people's experiences? that has nothing to do with john. nice attempt to pathetically redirect.
@BaconCruiser4 ай бұрын
@@chlyri John’s doctoral research centered on mental health outcomes of gay LDS members who entered into mixed-orientation marriages. What he found was that on the whole the group could expect worse mental health outcomes than people dealing with chronic illness e.g. Lupus. So when Tember says happy, that’s fine for him but it’s dangerous to tell other gay Mormons they can do that too and be happy. The current LDS handbook of instructions actually has stepped back from having bishops recommend gay members pursue heterosexual relationships, this is a change from even a few years ago.
@tefanyharward66144 ай бұрын
John’s findings of his supposedly reached he did should be thrown out. There is data manipulation and he was bias in his research.
@angiklein94794 ай бұрын
Not to mention that it feels very sad that he identifies as gay in a heterosexual marriage. Neither he or his wife can feel what a fulfilling, fully attracted sex life is like.
@sangeeta4 ай бұрын
It’s frustrating to hear them constantly say “it’s not just Mormonism, it’s all judeo Christian societies” and like.. yeah. Okay. That’s bad too. That’s not what we are talking about here lol
@brynnneumann59834 ай бұрын
I’m sorry…But Christianity is nowhere near comparable to Mormonism. Mormons are on another level…
@emilinda40084 ай бұрын
Yes especially because they claim to be the ONLY true church. Mormons don’t believe other religions have correct teachings so why do they use them to justify their own mistakes? They’re supposed to be held to a higher standard but they don’t do that.
@kelseygraham39904 ай бұрын
Irritated me every time! Like ok, you wanna go there with why Christianity as whole has problems? But that wasn't the point of the discussion!
@Soulwildxlovex4 ай бұрын
literally lolol
@lifewithpurpose24 ай бұрын
Why is Mormonism claiming to be the one true religion then? If they CHOSE to adopt what other religions deem as truth, then they don't get to throw others under the bus when they follow it too.
@DavidaThatch4 ай бұрын
Russel Nelson said in a talk last year not to take heed to advice given by non-believers. He then gave examples of people you SHOULD take advice from, including himself and other church leaders. In essence, “don’t listen to outsiders, listen to your leaders”. How is that not cultish? Not even to mention that children are raised singing “Follow The Prophet”, a song about blindly following the leader.
@blondandsmart14 ай бұрын
1,000% true. Facts.
@shauntiey21 күн бұрын
if you don't get it forget about it
@NicolePeaches4 ай бұрын
When Cardon said the Mormon church was an abolitionist movement, I nearly choked on my lunch. I can’t
@advocate76434 ай бұрын
Brigham Young was pro slavery.
@katclaphan4 ай бұрын
Interesting that this guys says, “ I have a question for you “girls.” Was his way of lowering their status by not calling these woman clearly adults the title as girls. He would never say to these men, “I have a question for you boys.” His view is very clear.
@w0ody164 ай бұрын
Normally I wouldn't think much of someone saying "girls" in that context since I refer to me and my friends as "me and the boys" without any demeaning behind it. But Cardon's attitude towards the women in the panel paired with how Mormonism structurally treats women gives me reason to think you're correct.
@amygreen7584 ай бұрын
And then to realize at church he would be calling them something also very cringe-- "sisters".
@beastshawnee4 ай бұрын
exactly! I started screaming “women!!! women!!!” at my screen. He doesn’t know he’s doing it but He KNOWSS he is doing something that has worked. Women are infantalized by the men of the church. Head patted, “There there, now go on. hush,”
@brennenconlee4374 ай бұрын
Yup. In addition, when extending his “olive branch,” he said something to the effect of “I understand why you’d want to see more women up there, it’s fun to watch a movie where the superheroes look like you!” A less than subtle manipulation to make their arguments look childish and to dismiss them.
@Random-sk6hm4 ай бұрын
@@w0ody16 Exactly, there's nothing inherently wrong with it but in that context with everything he'd said prior and the Mormon Church's views, he doesn't see them as equals at all.
@camilleromo37114 ай бұрын
the lekumia guy was absolutley wild. His argument made literally zero since
@geofferypmeyers4 ай бұрын
He just wanted to bring it up and make it about himself
@danielclingen344 ай бұрын
He has a whole podcast, and with one of the other guys here,Kwaku, and another guy named Brad. He never makes sense., he’s always just a manipulative bigoted bully.
@belencita95264 ай бұрын
I had to pause it and try to process lmao
@aBrewster294 ай бұрын
If you really want to be offended you should watch his show. He’s holding back here. His explanations are very representative of the loyal orthodoxy who feels the need to explain those asinine things that come from leaders that the leaders don’t even explain themselves. Just know it’s a big church and there are a lot of progressive members who don’t hold these views.
@danielclingen344 ай бұрын
@ BlueShirtWithATie “a lot” is a tiny fraction of the membership, the progressive Mormons are out of line with the leadership and still support and fund the abusive institution.
@lifeaccordingtotheo96434 ай бұрын
Suit and tie guy is angry and aggressive and trauma triggering just like most church leaders I have encountered...
@thebigshark3014Ай бұрын
Not every suited men are like that tho
@MackenzieNoelle4 ай бұрын
The fact that the exmormon group is half men and half women and the Mormon group is 75% men is so revealing and representative. I’m sure that 75% men 25% women FEELS “equal” to the Mormon men in this panel, and maybe feels “equal” to Bella too based on what she said. When there’s actually 50% women in a group doing 50% of the talking, men (especially Mormon men) perceive the women as taking up MAJORITY of the space and time. So it makes sense for the panel to reflect that. I think Cardon is comfortable speaking and acting the way he does in this video because he’s used to being the “authority”, the “leader”, “presiding over” meetings, basically automatically taking charge in ANY group of people that doesn’t include men that are higher-up in the church authority structure. The entitlement is unbridled, he feels comfortable inserting himself and centering himself in any and all conversations. Do I think that Cardon addresses the women as “girls” to INTENTIONALLY intimidate them? No, I don’t think he was necessarily super conscious of it. But it shows the implicit bias of the culture he’s coming from. It shows that it’s normal for him to address women this way, and he learned from all the other men around him speaking like that too. The sexism in the church can be subtle (or very overt) but it’s absolutely everywhere.
@MichaelTercero4 ай бұрын
How would Cardin feel if he was repeatedly told that having leukemia is a choice? He needs to have empathy for others other than himself
@chlyri4 ай бұрын
the last thing i understood before getting out was that being gay isn't a choice, like leukemia, but acting on it is.
@Random-sk6hm4 ай бұрын
Imagine if they told him that he's choosing to engage in a leukaemia lifestyle, and that it can go away if he joins the church and prays
@ashleyclawson3334 ай бұрын
Or if having leukemia and taking his chemo meds would result in him losing his temple recommend. “You can have leukemia, you just can’t act like you do…”
@KnuttyEntertainment4 ай бұрын
This was originally a 3 hour conversation cut down to 50 minutes, Cardon’s point was heavily edited down. Basically he was trying to say that everyone has something that challenges their faith. Tember had struggles living in a gay culture that encouraged him to be promiscuous, especially when his religious beliefs conflicted with that social pressure. Ultimately found that it was more fulfilling to live a faithful lifestyle with his loving wife and kids, and has made peace with that part of himself. Meanwhile, Cardon’s leukemia has been a significant trial for his faith and outlook on life, whereas his sexuality has never been a source of strife. He’s saying that he would much rather experience the hardships that Tember went through if it meant he would live an extra 20 years. The point is that the church isn’t oppressive to homosexuals, nor is there anything wrong with same sex attraction. There are just certain facts of life that get in the way of the life you want to live, especially when it comes to faith, and that’s true of everyone regardless of what form those trials take.
@Daeyel4 ай бұрын
These replies are really funny considering Cardon's leukemia was actually a choice. He chose to spray carcinogenic insecticides without proper protection. Ergo, he chose to have leukemia. (Cardon has/works for a pest control business)
@quejuno4 ай бұрын
i'd love to see jehovah's witnesses vs ex jehovah's witnesses
@Addieb-bn6my4 ай бұрын
YESSSS omg we both have the same idea! I was about to comment this.
@keeper90074 ай бұрын
I’d be surprised if jw did that. From what I’ve seen they HATE apostates. Won’t even have a conversation with them
@leapofthefrog4 ай бұрын
Practicing Jehovah's Witnesses would be very unlikely to do something like this, and their church leaders would strongly discourage it.
@ZK_SHREDR4 ай бұрын
Don't think it'll happen
@yeneman61104 ай бұрын
JWs aren't allowed to associate with exJWs. Besides, they'd see it as putting the organisation in danger by exposing it to the scrutiny of the "devil's" world. Also in any case they'd have to seek permission from their elders or overseer so it'd be virtually impossible. I'd be beyond surprised if the found a handful of active JWs willing to participate to, in their view, such an unnecessary strain to the faith not only of themselves but in general.
@jacemonster53 ай бұрын
i love how the guy saying "and it always comes back to women getting the priesthood" was the only one to bring up women getting the priesthood
@outwardbound22414 ай бұрын
Cardon single handedly deterred every sane petson from considering mormonism ever. Thanks for that!
@b647714 ай бұрын
“Men and women are equal” only men step forward 😂😂
@breem29994 ай бұрын
And then he calls them girls lol
@madyhatter174 ай бұрын
😂
@enmanniska57513 ай бұрын
yeeaaahhh hahah
@mrducc1870Ай бұрын
I think what hes trying to say is that everyone has problems and some bigger than others so technically being gay in the church is just another hardship or like everyone else, Basically everybody has problems just because your gay doesn't mean that you have a bigger problems than us
@isabelrascon18914 ай бұрын
Utah is ran by men exactly like Cardon. So, reading the comments of how many people think he’s horrendous makes me laugh.
@KimchiGang14 ай бұрын
I’ll be sure to never visit Utah. Thanks babe
@madelineharding4 ай бұрын
@@KimchiGang1Salt Lake City is great, but don’t go anywhere else
@JustJ-Me4 ай бұрын
As a Never-Mo born and raised in Utah & Wasatch County, it's been "fun" trying to navigate it all and survive.
@stacie15954 ай бұрын
Unfortunately, most of the country is run by people like him. They may not be mormon, but they are just as dogmatic and reactionary
@uthinkiamhot4 ай бұрын
Yeup! Reporting from the adjacent theocracy of Idaho. Our elected officials talk like Cardon.
@hatetheusername4 ай бұрын
how can you claim the church welcomes lgbt people but they "might not get the same privileges" like going to the temple?
@sammc3244 ай бұрын
I feel really sorry for Tember, this guy has convinced himself he needs to deny who he is to be happy. Of course he doesn’t think the church doctrine can change; if the doctrine can change then his self denial was for nothing.
@FWWillis4 ай бұрын
Exactly. 100%
@ctjohansen4 ай бұрын
The entire standing of the Mormon's is, "Well that's not just our problem, everyone does this" while also saying "This is the one true Church and we have all the truth." You can't be different and better when you are the same.
@chlyri4 ай бұрын
all of the credit, none of the blame.
@AdamLovesHorror4 ай бұрын
This is so well said and just reasonable to think about. It can’t possibly be the same but also different.
@FrankskinOrweed-ep4ij4 ай бұрын
FYI I’m a catholic and will forever be a catholic It’s the truth, doesn’t mean I necessarily agree with everything.
@nfs3freak4 ай бұрын
@@FrankskinOrweed-ep4ij Not sure what you being Catholic and disagreeing with the Catholic church has to do with the Mormons stating other people do something while also stating the church is true and all the truth is there. Just doesn't have anything to do with the statement.
@TheRenegadeStarr2 ай бұрын
The way they generalize everything is so elementary school… Gretchen did it down the street too so don’t call me out.
@f1nncess6714 ай бұрын
The way the mormon girl started stuttering the moment the big mormon guy started questioning her opinion, WOW.
@Soulwildxlovex4 ай бұрын
yeah that whole conversation was really sad / ironic
@YoureTerribleMuriel20094 ай бұрын
She is a woman, not a girl.
@immersion98804 ай бұрын
I mean to be fair, the same happened when the gay Mormon was pressed by the psychologist and one of the girls. It’s just an uncomfortable situation overall.
@f1nncess6714 ай бұрын
@@immersion9880 They were on opposite sides of the argument though, you can see how the girl was not free to say whatever she wanted to say without feeling pressured by her side
@PrincessJamiG4 ай бұрын
@f1nncess671 - yeah, exactly. I just felt my childhood and young womanhood coming back to me. Ugh.
@ohmylanta17263 ай бұрын
Ex-Mormon here. The argument that certain beliefs and behaviors are not uniquely Mormon but are spread throughout other groups such as the rest of Christianity- that argument holds no water. A problem is a problem, no matter where it came from or where it exists Also, and I’m sorry if this is rude, but that guy Cardon was just blowing hot air the whole time. None of his arguments made sense to me
@harryabelpotter96303 ай бұрын
You are correct ~ If God's standard is a problem for you ~ then that is a problem ~ for you.
@purplkaret4 ай бұрын
The Mormon side is the definition of lost in the sauce here. Yikes.
@danielameza49074 ай бұрын
Kwaku: "When I think of a cult I think of an organization that's really controlling, they control how you think..." 💀💀
@orisonorchards42514 ай бұрын
As he regurgitates heinous idealogies from his cult. 😂
@John-nf9jn4 ай бұрын
He's such a clueless asshat
@HunterRobinetteBrandon4 ай бұрын
To be fair, of all the Mormons here, Kwaku is the closest to leaving.
@powersfamily12314 ай бұрын
@@HunterRobinetteBrandon IDK I have hope for Bella (the Mormon girl)
@GwPoKo4 ай бұрын
Like the cult of ex-mormonism. I have never experienced as much hate as I did when my exmo group of friends found out I wanted to go back to church. Talk about absolute hate and vitriol.
@乂4 ай бұрын
While I sympathize with what Cardon is dealing with, I feel like he shouldn’t have brought it up in that context
@thoughtnot4 ай бұрын
Using it against the listener to play on emotions , theatrics at it’s best.
@badasspeacemaker4 ай бұрын
It's a false equivalent.
@prancing_pansy4 ай бұрын
to play devil's advocate, he was making a counterpoint to what Liz was saying about straight vs gay trials as a mormon. and he personally got dealt a rough hand. it's completely moot as a sociopolitical argument though, as there is no discriminatory cause for his illness.
@thoughtnot4 ай бұрын
@@prancing_pansy pardon me why would u wanna advocate for the devil ? And don’t give me any of that “figure of speech” nonsense
@bigmansmallboy4 ай бұрын
@@thoughtnot blud doesnt understand english figures of speech
@yunglocke39524 ай бұрын
The church is homophobic, well I have leukaemia, bro I’m an ex Mormon, that was one of the most disgusting things I’ve ever heard
@thefrostychemist4 ай бұрын
It's weaponizing suffering as a bludgeon against entire groups of people
@uthinkiamhot4 ай бұрын
Wait! Cardon is the one saying that Starwars is a cult. No one else is cheapening the meaning of cult, only Cardon. Then he blamed the exmos for trivializing the term. This guy 😂
@benthomas9776Ай бұрын
When Disney decides that Star Wars fans can only drink milk if it's blue, or that fans must wear R2D2 underwear, or that Star Trek and Dune only have a partial understanding of science fiction while Star Wars has the fullness of truth in the matter, then I'll believe that Star Wars is a cult.
@thewayithappens4694 ай бұрын
are we not gonna talk about how there’s a gay male married to a woman openly saying he still has same sex attraction… that in it self tells you how much in denial these people are
@chlyri4 ай бұрын
they're willing to admit they have same sex attraction when they've convinced themselves it's okay as long as they don't act on it, and it's great for bearing testimonies.
@sjsjciskwmddjs59244 ай бұрын
They’re willing to go to heaven and live for eternity! Sorry if ur offended he’s gay and believes in Christ .
@lechez63133 ай бұрын
Thats not the problem. It’s completely fine if he wants to go to heaven and believes in christ. The problem is that he felt the need to even marry a woman in the first place in order to get to heaven. Why should that one factor of him being gay mean that he cant be closer to christ, that he cant even enter heaven? Thats messed up. It’s messed up that he feels the need to do all of that. It’s messed up that he feels the need to go against his very own nature just to be accepted in his religion. He should be able to believe in Christ without having to marry a woman, because the base of a religion should always be your belief in it, not how you act in it. While it is important to do what your faith tells you to do, the most important part should always be your belief.
@magical80133 ай бұрын
That's the Mormon church for you, it's so weird. The guy is gay but because of his religion he cannot be who he wants to be so he married a girl. I've known another married couple that had multiple domestic violence assault against his wife, and I guess the higher-ups in the church wouldn't let them get divorced. So the lady stayed in the church and is still married to this a******. It's so crazy how much to say the church has in your relationships.
@josephcroeniangamer37273 ай бұрын
@@sjsjciskwmddjs5924 Christ would not like the mormon church tbh
@lancelotle4 ай бұрын
Cardon is very comfortable interrupting the women on this panel.
@ShyBandGeek4 ай бұрын
Bless the moderator
@saradana40754 ай бұрын
He really is the worst!!
@EchoesfromtheTabernacle4 ай бұрын
To quote exmo podcaster Nuancehoe, he's a narcissistic douche bro.
@lolaphotography44 ай бұрын
Cardon is so far gone that he cant even stop "teaching". Fighting against this being a cult with its own doctrine. Religious trauma is real!
@aliceosborne38664 ай бұрын
FYI: not all Judeo-Christian religions ban women from the “priesthood”..
@Holsp4 ай бұрын
"Men and women are equal in the church.": Only men agree.
@bbqbros36484 ай бұрын
Have you read the Bible? Women are not supposed to lead in Christianity.
@jacobsamuelson31814 ай бұрын
It's because equality is not a monolithic term.
@ElsaLouiseSinger4 ай бұрын
I'm a woman and I agree Equality doesn't mean we do the same things, we all have different roles that are equally important
@user-mh5qg5jb7d4 ай бұрын
No offense, but I have seen Mormon teachings that clearly show women underneath men, and heard teachings that it is up to the husband to give the wife her secret name. @@ElsaLouiseSinger
@velatoget4 ай бұрын
What is a woman? If you can't answer this basic question, your point is moot.
@TheFINNHERO4 ай бұрын
The way Tember keep arguing that different forms of bigotry (homophobia,Sexism etc) aren’t unique to Mormonism as if it makes it not as bad or even okay ????💀💀💀
@randomname47264 ай бұрын
The mormon church admitted, on 60 minutes, to have at least 150 billion dollars. Couldn't they solve world hunger with that, or at least save millions of lives every year.
@Mamalaura2084 ай бұрын
I’m sorry, being gay is not a “lifestyle” it is just a life. Being gay is not any more a choice than being heterosexual is.
@melissagarcia81694 ай бұрын
The guy crying at the beginning at around the 11 minute mark with literally no tears was so triggering as someone who grew up in the church. It’s just a manipulation tactic.
@eastcoastguy_08034 ай бұрын
He's so embarrassing. He makes his church look awful.
@jessea28714 ай бұрын
Straight out of Henry B Crying's book.
@orisonorchards42514 ай бұрын
I call it a crying Eyring. It's the same exact thing Eyring always pulls in conference. His tone and cadence is very Mormon, too. Same with Tember.
@ryangtromero4 ай бұрын
Amen!!!
@scottvance744 ай бұрын
@@orisonorchards4251 I once promised cake to my kids going to a fireside (church broadcast) with Eyring if he didn't cry. Needless to say, I didn't have to bake a cake.
@GracieMW4 ай бұрын
Cardon has got to be the most manipulative person I’ve seen on this show
@DeconstructionTherapyPodcast4 ай бұрын
He embodies the LDS male mentality. It was everything I grew up seeing in the church.
@clarklawlor4194 ай бұрын
And he was tame in this video. You should see the videos on his own channel! No, actually you shouldn't :D
@Cocoisagordonsetter4 ай бұрын
I feel like he was trying really hard to sound smart. I'm unfamiliar with his work so it was the first time I've ever seen him anywhere.
@boysrus614 ай бұрын
If you watch the Mormon Stories Podcast reaction video to this Jubilee podcast, the 4 exmos were on the MSP, you will hear them talk about some of the cuts the editors did that actually made Cardon sound better bc he really came off as a jerk in the 3 hour taping. Even the active Bella was embarrassed by him.
@raimeyewens75184 ай бұрын
He reminds me of a used car salesman
@kristenfrench47324 ай бұрын
The mental gymnastics on the Mormon side are dizzying to hear. Also, there were a lot of "the only church that..." type of statements. Uh... there are over 4000 churches on the Earth today. I doubt you know then all
@SabrinaRene45654 ай бұрын
John SLAM DUNKED with the statistics and mentioning his phD🤘🏽
@spaghettification86584 ай бұрын
Claiming that the Church doesn't discriminate against LGBT people is some NEXT LEVEL gaslighting. Honestly respect to Kwaku for pretty much just acknowledging it and looking toward a different future, instead of playing mental gymnastics.
@ethandollarhide79434 ай бұрын
Especially when there has literally been nationwide controversy MULTIPLE times over Christians Discriminating against LGBT people.
@bochapman10584 ай бұрын
@@mersmersmers by definition, they are anyone that believes in Christ is a Christian.
@WishAtElevenEleven4 ай бұрын
@@mersmersmersyes they are, Mormonism is a type of Christianity.
@jonahbarnes58414 ай бұрын
The dude who said it is an openly gay member ... so.... maybe he knows better than you
@Hagar-yn8jm4 ай бұрын
@@WishAtElevenEleven a deception is that Christianity is an umbrella term. Following Christ was always supposed to be simple. Religiosity has convoluted it. Mormonism, JW's, Catholicism, etc. differ from Christ ALONE. (like, for example praying to saints, and the heavenly mother...)
@kerrier43304 ай бұрын
I like how when a woman has an opinion it’s a gripe.
@alissajergensen52464 ай бұрын
Best comment
@nfs3freak4 ай бұрын
Kwaku stating it was essentially just people complaining had that superior air of "just deal with it". That elitist Mormon (male) attitude always attempts to discount the reality beyond their thin walls.
@MandeeSparkle2 ай бұрын
Welcome to being a woman in the Mormon cult.
@gracewilson4974 ай бұрын
“Being gay isn’t a trial, being gay in the church is a trial” 👏👏👏
@kitsune23343 ай бұрын
Damn that dude comparing being gay to have leukemia like woah
@maryskaggs32084 ай бұрын
What does someone’s leukemia have to do with someone’s sexuality?
@TwoTreesVisuals4 ай бұрын
He just wanted a chance to bring that story up.
@uthinkiamhot4 ай бұрын
Mormons believe sexuality is an illness.
@whatoh34074 ай бұрын
Like the lesbian said, the church sees being gay as a sickness.
@Random-sk6hm4 ай бұрын
Nothing. It's him attempting to gaslight everyone and I'm so glad she called him out on it.
@gabrielgray23454 ай бұрын
Ya it was super manipulative
@cindyseedall15284 ай бұрын
Cardon Ellis: The moment that you called the women on the panel "girls" you showed your hand and lost any credibility you may have. Which on this topic is zero.
@DHU114 ай бұрын
I can see people quite ruffled about this in the comments. For the life of me I cannot understand why this was so bothersome to so many? This is one of the more innocuous things he actually said. It is a colloquial term.
@Mgames134 ай бұрын
@@DHU11it’s belittling. Addressing the women as “girls” is insinuating they are less mature/responsible than the “men”. Essentially treating them like children.
@leguminous75644 ай бұрын
@@DHU11 A woman calling men "boys" if she didn't know them well is generally considered impolite. It's the same idea.
@kalypsovaldez78654 ай бұрын
Yes, exaktly!
@kweenz6003 ай бұрын
@@DHU11 Call a room full of grown men “boys” at your next church/business meeting, and see how they react. It’s rude, pure and simple.
@mrbusdriversir4 ай бұрын
Tember is the perfect example of cognitive dissonance.
@emilychristinaf67834 ай бұрын
when bro started talking about leukemia my jaw dropped cause what was the point of that whole spiel
@sophiah374920 күн бұрын
Manipulation🥰
@brooklynparkse4 ай бұрын
The leukemia to gayness trade was not appropriate.
@exmorobo4 ай бұрын
Definitely. False equivalency and out of line.
@PinemartenMusic4 ай бұрын
@@exmoroboIt's not an equivalence; it's a comparison. I just don't get how so many people have a hard time understanding comparisons. He's not saying that having leukaemia and being gay is the same thing. He was saying that both things can cause a loss of faith, but that they shouldn't do. Angry lesbian just came in hot because he used the word "trial".
@exmorobo4 ай бұрын
@@PinemartenMusic it’s not “being gay” that causes “a lack of faith” - it’s the church’s treatment of LGBTQ+ people that causes it. The premise is entirely flawed. You lost your credibility at “angry lesbian.”
@hopkinsonebm36924 ай бұрын
Genuine question: Why can sicknes or sexuality leading to a cause of "lost faith" be mentioned when talking losing faith? I honestly didn't hear him say sickness and gayness are equal.
@TryingtoTellYou4 ай бұрын
Comparing illnesses is a silly game. On a granular level, there are no objective means to suggest one person suffers more than another from different illnesses, the caveat being extreme differences in illnesses of course.
@inki40214 ай бұрын
I'm sorry for Cardon that he's dealing with leukemia, but I do NOT like how he tried to emotionally manipulate by bringing up his situation and comparing it to being gay. Absolutely vile.
@secilymusic4 ай бұрын
I loved they didn't edit it out because it showed how manipulate he was.
@randilee26624 ай бұрын
Came here to say this. Absolutely disgusting.
@wrengebhard15054 ай бұрын
Liz staring at him with a straight face said it all
@hoskelhoff16624 ай бұрын
That’s exactly what Mormons like him do. They use emotion and sad personal stories to manipulate the conversation or narrative. It happens all the time.
@JustSnakes9114 ай бұрын
He was the most rational of them all.
@wendydavidson15894 ай бұрын
So glad y'all included a moderator for this conversation. I don't want to imagine what this conversation would have looked like without one. Gen - you did a great job!
@wendydavidson15894 ай бұрын
The fact-checking and source-providing is also incredibly well done
@kate4th1493 ай бұрын
Fun fact: Kwaku once bullied me for a facial defect I was born with. Great follower of Christ, he is 😒
@Waimapu_Wahine2 ай бұрын
Sorry you went through that- sending you all the kindnesses
@obiwan48202 ай бұрын
Sorry people do be jerks sometimes ( I'm a mormon)
@zandervonmarko9 күн бұрын
Sorry that happened to you, and I don't see anything wrong with your face. It's beautiful
@ha2314 ай бұрын
Kwaku defending racists who didn't want him to be part of their church hurts my black soul. The reinterpretation of the skin of blackness is also wild.
@ksparks6894 ай бұрын
It’s ridiculous and they fully well know they’re wrong. They just can’t admit it. I’ve seen interviews of ex-mo native Americans who were told their skin would lighten if they lived the gospel.
@swarlesbarkely24494 ай бұрын
@@ksparks689no one was told that. Just stop.
@inezaa4 ай бұрын
@@swarlesbarkely2449wouldn't be surprising if true
@ksparks6894 ай бұрын
@@swarlesbarkely2449 there are interviews of people who said it happened to them. I heard stuff like that all the time in the 80’s growing up in the church.
@swarlesbarkely24494 ай бұрын
@@ksparks689 well it doesn't happen. Those are one of those myths that need to be squashed. It doesn't happen.
@solanaseraphina4 ай бұрын
Now get Scientologists vs Ex-Scientologists
@gwenythp.70404 ай бұрын
I think they’ve done this before
@WalterDEgger4 ай бұрын
they *HAVEN’T* done that before and no current Scientologist would be willing or even allowed to participate in that kind of video!
@bochapman10584 ай бұрын
Yeah, this couldn’t happen. Hey, it’s extremely hard to leave Scientology and be you’d be hard-pressed to have a Scientologist that would be willing to have this debate.
@bochapman10584 ай бұрын
@@wardified8566 ummmm the Catholics could survive a lawsuit from actual countries. The Mormons have significantly less money that the Scientology sector. The Jews could fight almost anyone as well. Do some research.
@rumrunner80194 ай бұрын
@@WalterDEgger Members of the Church of Scientology wouldn't, but most Scientologists are actually not in the church of Scientology but have gone independent.
@Angela-un2tx4 ай бұрын
Does anyone else get icky creepy vibes from the Suite and tie 👔 guy?
@mitzy67064 ай бұрын
The guy with the tie made me never wanting to know anything about mormonism 😅
@lizgunnell4 ай бұрын
Hello everyone, it’s Liz from the video!! Thank you so much for watching! Love reading all the comments and the discussions this is sparking
@dillanconrad4 ай бұрын
It was an honor to be beside you for this experience.
@evanhil024 ай бұрын
Thank you for your courage! For standing up! Y'all are awesome!!
@lukev4834 ай бұрын
You’re a remarkable human being. I appreciate your input into this discussion and learned a lot from you.
@tracythorpe18564 ай бұрын
Liz!! Which “GIRL” were you up there? The girl with the green sweater? Oh it doesn’t matter. One of the girls. In all seriousness, girl you rocked! 🎉
@gabewight14654 ай бұрын
I’m also an exmormon and I really love how you presented your views. It seemed like you were very thoughtful and insightful. I’m really grateful for your part in the debate, and helping to make it interesting, and sparking some thoughts for myself.
@maddielawson93554 ай бұрын
I got a headache from my eyes rolling every time Cardon spoke
@grantbeck92284 ай бұрын
certainly tried to "elder's quorum president" control the conversation, dictating to the ladies, minimizing any opposing thoughts...
@marylamphere21124 ай бұрын
I read this as he said "is it okay? Define okay" and spent the next minute saying absolutely nothing.
@rhutabaga4204 ай бұрын
I think it's pretty clear from the comment section which side won lol
@kaylalindsay43794 ай бұрын
i’m sorry but I think the mormons are a bit delulu 🤪
@KareBear4 ай бұрын
Cardon says a lot without actually saying anything
@jacobsamuelson31814 ай бұрын
It's cause he's green isn't it?
@M3gnog4 ай бұрын
If that doesn’t sum up Mormonism… lol
@Soulwildxlovex4 ай бұрын
many white men with shitty podcasts seem to do that a lot these days, it’s like a damn plague
@radybay90884 ай бұрын
But what he does say is too much.
@minaguta41474 ай бұрын
He lacks any self awareness. His ego won't allow it.
@brunoguaglianone93624 ай бұрын
So funny when the ex Mormons are asked a quiestion, they have a straight answer with a solid point. When the Mormon answers, straight circles and no point at all.
@braydonmorris35184 ай бұрын
Welcome to the Mormon church!
@stacie15954 ай бұрын
Unfortunately maybe religious people, not just Mormons, have the unenviable job of defending ancient texts in a modern world. It is a near impossible task.
@amykirby31364 ай бұрын
@@stacie1595”ancient texts” John Smith wrote all this garbage in the 1800s. Not really ancient.
@radybay90884 ай бұрын
@@amykirby3136a lot of it was plagiarized from the KJV bible.
@pcoleman25624 ай бұрын
@@amykirby3136The Mormon church is unique in that there is just so much overwhelming evidence that it's all made up. You can literally see the edits in the margins he made when he would retroactively change stuff to benefit himself. You have hundreds of witness testimonies of all the people he scammed out of money, court cases against him for fraud, the young girls he convinced to marry him. You have the actual Egyptian papyrus he "translated" into the Book of Abraham and you can see it's a false translation. Every single field of study from anthropology to genetics to archaeology to linguistics even to engineering disproves the Book of Mormon. So Mormon apologists have to use the most wild and ridiculous mental gymnastics to defend their beliefs. But it is interesting that as you watch them contort themselves into pretzels to maintain some sort of plausibility for their claims, you begin to notice the same tactics being used to defend other religious beliefs, only to a less obvious degree.
@randomcrap54124 ай бұрын
I’m an ex-Mormon and my gay little sister ended her life because of this cult.
@TheDemonAscended4 ай бұрын
Im really sorry for your loss. I lost a cousin and a friend to a cult by the same thing.