Judith Butler: Your Behavior Creates Your Gender | Big Think

[@bigthink]

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[@undertheriverstone]

Want to get smarter faster? Do not listen to anti-feminists who shall wave the feminist flag and "perform feminism" rather than defend women's rights. Shame on "Big Think" for going with the stupid narrative in support of the abusive multibillion dollar gender industry.

[@johnsmith7140]

Your content is trash

[@joyce605]

If Butler can talk normally, why can't she write normally?! This is actually comprehensible.

[@maskman9675]

Lel. Perhaps the performance of the philosopher/sociologist requires more intellectual pompousness than the performance of the public intellectual.

[@plsarguewithme2665]

because it's academic

[@marcostorrestaboada5502]

what about Zizek xd

[@jamesoleary2476]

John Lo no she is uniquely good at saying very little while being pretentious

[@jamesoleary2476]

John Lo I'm read her works. There is very little intelligence evident. Interesting you don't actually have any concrete defense of her work

[@sunshizzleyou]

Anybody else here because they couldn't get past the (first sentence) of one of Judith's writings so they were hoping KZbin could help.... yeah, that'd be me... :(

[@kingsleyenaboakpe2107]

Me too! 🤣

[@urielrodriguez2459]

@@kingsleyenaboakpe2107 The fact that you don't understad it does not mean that it's right, or complex. It means that you have to read some of the authors that influenced her. When you do it you will realizs that her theory is completely bullshit.

[@richjuin9504]

@@urielrodriguez2459 you just made a claim. You have to support said claim with actual facts and evidence and logical reasoning.

[@billsimms2511]

I was given one of judiths books and made it halfway through. It was nonsense

[@richjuin9504]

@@billsimms2511 again, this is weak reasoning. Someone can say the same about any and all academic research papers. Doesn't mean the academic work is inherently false.

[@bravetherainbow]

Lol the way she says "I know it's controversial, but that's my claim" in the weathered way of someone who's been making the same claim for like 20 years

[@fartinIutherking]

She knows she's wrong but it's hard for her to admit. This is what happens when you sit in an echo chamber for too long

[@bravetherainbow]

@@fartinIutherking is devoting your life to studying a subject the same as an "echo chamber"? do you think not bothering to learn anything new about anything makes you a better person?

[@fartinIutherking]

@@bravetherainbow Yes it is an echo chamber when you are studying something like gender completely discarding biology.

[@bravetherainbow]

@@fartinIutherkingIn what way is she "completely discarding biology"? What biological discoveries of the last few decades are you referring to exactly? What do biologists have to say about the language and roles of gender in history? I don't know much about advanced biological theories of gender, so please enlighten me.

[@bravetherainbow]

@jay did you bother to listen to the distinction she made between something being "performed" and something being "performative"? Because it sounds like you still think she means gender is faked. That's not what she means. She means it's actively carried out every day, like performing a task not like performing a play. I think she chose confusing language for it though.

[@carinaochoa2563]

It seems that most of the comments already got confused at the first step of differentiating sex and gender. Which I guess is understandable because 3 min is too little to explain her theory fully. To make it more understandable I will try to make a resume of my understanding of her theory, sorry for my english. First of all one should give a look into two concepts of Saussure... one, that no matter what we do we are always thinking within a system. For example, we cant imagine a new colour without distancing ourselves from all the other colours first, that means that we are not assuming a position outside of the "system of colours", we are still within the system. So, every type of "protest/alternative thinking" only finds meaning because of the conscious contrast and meaning of the other parts of the system. two, the triangle of reference....which means that when we see an object we perceive it as a whole but one needs to make oneself clear that there are different processes going on here: (1) the physical existence of the object.(2) the name we give to it. (3) the meanings and assumptions that we related to it. so, for example, "chair" ...chairs exist outside of language, the physical existence of what we call them has its own reason of existence in which the chair doesnt care what humans think of it, it just exists (1) . Then there is the name, in this example "chair" , language is a system of symbols, so we need expressions to refer to things (2). And then there are all those assumptions we relate to "chair" , that can be our knowledge about its potential materials that its made of, or also the knowledge that we use it to sit, that it can be usually found in dining rooms and so on, many many things. So, Judith Butler makes use of the thought line in which we need to be aware of (1) , the human physical body, (2) the name we give to divide its genitalia = "sex" and (3) gender as all the ideology and assumptions we relate to it. One should also take into consideration the concepts of Pierre Bordieu of Habitus and Praxis, in which Habitus is like the knowledge we got "programmed" with since we were little, and Praxis daily actions we do to replicate such "Program"...that can mean a lot of things, and its divided into many different categories and environments, for example food taste, based on what type of food habits your family had you are likely to replicate those in your further life and with your children, it is not a must obviously but life is full of those details. It also includes table manners, religion, or basic things like how to use a phone, how to react when we face stress, the way we express love or perceive love and so on. All that can be highly personal and individual but also goes further, it is a part on how society divides into poor and rich, or intelectual or not, or also how we create our perception of "foreigners" "nationalism" and also things like racism or sexism. We are born into a structure and based on how we are molded by that structure we then later replicate it with Praxis. Because a society is an alive thing that has the ability to adapt. We tend to think that society is something big and powerful and often ignore that its made of individuals like you and me. Also our identity tends to be formed based on differences...so, the white racist does discriminate against black people for example, not because of those persons inferiority but because of his attempt to try to establish him/herself as superior, so, by telling ourselves that "I am not x" one establishes that "I belong to this other category = I am this" (Stuart Hall) And then there is also Michel Focault with his Discourse. For him power is not a matter of hierarchy...instead its that what those complex social systems produce constantly in interaction to each other. So, power is omnipresent and not understandable directed by an individual. It also means that we are all below it. For example one might say that a president is above power because he owns it, but he was too below the structure of power that forced him to adapt to the "rules" of elections, or that he is below the social rules for a president of being for example extrovert (usually), or that he is expected to be smart and have good table manners, to be an excellent public speaker and so on...That whole combination of rules and concepts has many divisions and segments in which one reaction causes another one and so on. They are like chains of Discourse in which they give meaning to each other. And those Discourses do not follow some sort of strict Superior logic, they vary based on culture and also based on time. Different factors create different reactions and a society adapts to those changes of costums. One just needs to be aware how deep that goes, even things like for example punctuality, some cultures pay more attention to it than others. But that is also based on a combination of many small factors and one of them is a different individual/ cultural understanding of time that varies. That also leads to body perception...there were times in which being overweight was considered to be a sign of Beauty, tattoos and their social acceptance also vary. Based on how the outside demands are put on us by society we have a different perception of everything. And institutions for example create the effect of believing that the way we think is objective, that there is some sort of thought line that exists outside of subjective perception. So, now we come to Judith Butler...she is aware of all those and a lot more. She thinks based that, that when we think about gender (which is NOT the same as sex) we talk as if the body was like a chair in which whether it rains or snows the object does not get affected...But that is not true. Because there is not such thing as a human form before the formation of body, like, we cant freeze our brains. Because one essential side of human beings is their capacity to learn, to create an Habitus and we are what we learned to think. Based on that gender is a type of Habitus and we perform it daily and through that we create our identity through differentiating ourselves from each other by trying to create stereotypes or social rules that fit within that whole Discourse complex in which we live in. Now, gender is Performance and a social construct...again, we are not talking about sex here, and as we live within a system in which we cant fully escape it one might say that, sex is gender because as we are all anyway formed and created around it since we are born, it might be artificial but its still valid because its part of what we are or turned our minds into. And yes, that is true to some extent but our identity is based on many things more than that...the way of being "male/female" in one culture differs to the way of being "male/female" in another culture, your age also plays a factor, your grandmother has a different concept of "woman/man" than you do. Whether you are born as rich or poor, your skin colour also marks somehow how you are perceived by society and therefore how you perceive yourself, it marks your life and your identity. A person from the opposite sex than you who was born in the same social environment as you, who looks similar to you, same religion, Ideology and so on is more similar to you, your way of talking and everything than someone from your same sex who was born in another position of a social structure. So, we are born in a body and then turned into what we are through many many factors and sex is only one of them, a minimal fragment in a combination of thousands of details that we are constituted of. But for some reason we keep talking and thinking as if that one difference defines everything we are. We have incorporated in our mind that there are two type of subjects, male and female, and that everything else are atributes, like race, social class, hobbies, nationality and so on. Butler tries to bring up the concept about that we should perceive sex as an atribute as well, That there is only one human subject with many different atributes and not some sort of core that depends on your sex. Based on that we also wouldnt try to discriminate people for not fitting into their "gender" standard for example. More liberty to try to understand ourselves as complex creatures and not a mix of boxes. I am just a cultural anthropology student and we didnt study this subject thaaat well either so I am sorry if I mixed up some of the details around the terms or intentions of the respective philosophers.

[@alinastefana4138]

There is the option to have in mind Butler's rhetoric while also disagreeing and ask: ok, what would be the alternative? I would say education is the solution, but not a biased education, as in the one offered at most universities where you can nit-pick only the convenient parts and go march for Marxism. I think Butler is not fully aware of her appeal to activist youngsters who haven't read and learned enough simply because of...well...time. Categorization has been there before civilization, simply because people always need a way to simplify the complexities of the surrounding world, regardless of the culture they belong to. That's why we have archetypes in mythology and that is why we have stereotypes all around us. It is not something evil, it is just something natural. Psychologist Gordon Allport made a clear stance for "in-groups" and "out-groups". If you delete one form of categorization, another one will be formed instead. Allport also noticed that strict equalitarian values or any other strict values, regardless of their good intentions, can lead to prejudice against any "out-group" that disagrees. And if we look at the current academia, we find ourselves in echo chambers of social justice. That is not progressivism. I will end my stance by saying that, in theory, many ideas are perfect, tempting, interesting and may seem applicable. When putting them to practice, however, they don't work. In real life, we are humans. And I think this is the biggest error when reading Butler. Not distinguishing between theory and practice. And I could go further and state that this is the biggest error in the field of humanities and social sciences. Dismissing reality in favor of idealism. Which in return backlashes through this snowflake reaction we see in universities...

[@rlarkin100]

"But for some reason we keep talking and thinking as if that one difference defines everything we are..." Who? I think no one does that or even thinks that way.

[@Neuroneos]

@300bpm Butler doesn't pretend to be a "real scientist" so she can't be accused of being a "fake" one.

[@scrufyonpanfu]

@Lewis C. you’re literally wrong stating that. gender and sex is different. go do your research. it’s literally on the world health organisation.

[@KandiKlover]

@@scrufyonpanfuyeah if you’re mentally I’ll and have no real job or hobbies.

[@GoPats37]

Im still confused about the difference between gender being "performed" versus gender being "performative"

[@alexsarullo3753]

Performed means gender is there before the performance. Performative means that gender is the performance itself (gender does not exist until it is performed)

[@halguy5745]

@300bpm "me no understand smart words so me thinks you are wrong"

[@PeymanMusic7]

@300bpm why are you so mad bro? Butler wouldn't be considered as one of the most genius thinkers of our time if what she said was bullshit.

[@cococandacraig3624]

300bpm maybe it would be warranted to think about it more than 1 second before discarding it out of hand? Ignorance is bliss enjoy!

[@killerhitman28]

Go to school, then. It means repetition

[@caramelunicorn8023]

Thing with bullying is not that they keep you in your gendered place. They make you feel like you'll never fit in with that ideal. Pretty messed up

[@Grokford]

That would seem to imply that the standard is incomplete and not the encompassing of gender that Butler implies. If gender is performance, then why are those who differ from that performance treated as inferior versions of the gender rather than something else entirely?

[@Theonlyukr]

back in my day when we didnt fit in we just did psyphadelic drugs and didn't do irreversible surgeries

[@lemonqvartz]

@@Theonlyukr claiming you're a different gender versus expressing yourself in a way despite being your gender are two different things.

[@lemonqvartz]

@@Grokford because other people have different ideas of what your performance should be, and if you have certain characteristics they expect you to act and identify a certain way.

[@alharrison1038]

Awful. It's the worst thing in the world.

[@themechanism1075]

One thing I've acquired over time from listening to most intellectual speakers or philosophers is that it is crucial that you don't sprint to your conclusion, as you may be surprised at what you learn, even if you think you have all the facts. I neither agree or disagree, but interesting to hear.

[@jonwhite8815]

@@RickBobO KZbin comment sections are mostly ignorant drivel. But KZbin comment sections under videos even remotely related to feminism are a special strain of malignant, hateful stupidity.

[@Diamondragan]

The suspension of judgment is not a virtue. In fact, I think it is the fear of being wrong that drives the withdrawal into pseudointellectualism. That doesn't mean every judgment is best acted upon, especially if it is underinformed, but if you are making observations and somehow magically evading the compulsion to judge, I would say you're either not human or not listening.

[@davidsprouse151]

@@Diamondragan I'm pseudo intellectual and quasi libertarian

[@frogtrax5833]

​@@Diamondraganjudgements and conclusions are not the same. Series of judgements are made to eventually arrive at conclusions

[@jamiedorsey4167]

I was a little surprised by the video. I'd heard Judith Butler's name in relation to current gender thinking. But here she actually moves in a different direction and says gender is socially created and reinforced rather than being something internal that one inherently understands.

[@newsduke]

Hey, that means Butler agrees with anti-trans right-wingers! That's not a good thing.

[@gnosis8142]

@@newsduke - this is Post-Modernism. They deny there is Any Nature to Anyone. Not that there are Different Natures.

[@CatharticCreation]

as a lifelong masculine woman that regularly dances between dressing feminine and masculine (like most women), i seriously do not believe this. even in my most masculine energy, i have always felt like a woman. it wasn’t learned, it was innate. and if it was learned, that’s like saying cats only know how to be cats because they take example from other cats. have them be raised by another animal and they’d behave like that animal. okay, true….they’re still a cat though, with mostly catlike characteristics! does this make sense?

[@leonsvoboda5059]

yes, it does. you describe the describe the difference between sex and gender.

[@Jacob-ps5xl]

Not to be pedantic but cats need to stay with their mother for the first 12-14 weeks of their life in order to learn how to be a cat, this is quite literally the point of parenting. Though I don't think cats particularly have a concept of taxonomy.

[@lonzo61]

@@Jacob-ps5xl Cats don't need to learn to be cats. They ARE cats. Parenting by cats or Homo sapiens is...particularly with cats, just a way to care for the youngster until they are independent. Certainly, with humans given that we are more complex than cats, means that there is more to raising a child than there is to raising a kitten by its mother. And certainly, raising a child means that the parents are instilling social norms and societal expectations to a greater or lesser degree to that child. But much of what we are as individuals is innate--which is to include our sexuality, among other things. And CatharticCreation ably made this point. Butler is clearly very androgynous, which gives her an interesting perspective. I think she makes a valid point or two, but she puts too much emphasis on gender in a way that makes it seem like it's mostly imposed on us. This and similar notions being taught in universities has wrought dangerous gender ideology and the resultant misguided and horrific "gender affirming care" being foisted on children. This is just one of the problems with modern progressivisim. It's why so many people are, rightly, opposing WOKE ideology to a greater and greater degree. These modern ideas about gender and all the baggage it has with it must be challenged. Trans women (men who claim to be women) should not be competing with women. This is yet another way that this gender sh*t is so off the rails. And a woman does not have a penis, and a man cannot simply claim to be a woman. And women breastfeed their offsrping--not men. And women get pregnant--not men. Sorry if I got a little too deep into the weeks here. Maybe your comment did not deserve this response. I'm possibly over-extrapolating.

[@TheodoraKimmelHello]

I’ve also thought that gender was a kind of re-enactment, where we pick up images and ideas of gender and we use those to inform our own gender manifestations. This means we take what we’ve witnessed and apply it to ourselves to provide or potentiate our gender.

[@relaxingsounds1386]

yes, like normal people

[@FUDBuddy]

No, this is not how that works. Your whole life is performative. Gender is not something that is special. Your whole personality is performative and changes depending on the situation you are in. We are social animals and we adapt to our social environment. You act different when you are out with your friends than when you are out with your co-workers or on a business dinner. Life is performative. This has been known for ages and i am surprised most people don't seem to know this and think Butlers drivel is a revelation.

[@DamnDraws]

Yes, the human brain has being evolving to do that for millennia, shocking how a brain can detect someone is a female that enacts male trait and call this a lesbian.

[@wattlebough]

Gender is an objective scientific descriptor. It’s not intrinsically an identity type. Identity exists outside of gender in personality type and absorbed culture. Gender must be separate from identity for evolutionary reasons pertaining to propagation of the species.

[@heliusfacenna4109]

@@wattlebough Are you talking about gender or biological sex?

[@yuyulliz]

She made this topic actually very understandable and simple and I love it.

[@FlawlessP401]

She's still wrong, wrong as fuck. Like holy shit no ones been more wrong probably since Karl Marx, but alright.

[@wayne1da121]

Are you serious. 20 likes as well😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@georgenagy9766]

For a while I felt like I was a man trapped inside a woman's body ....and then I was born

[@Regulification]

George Nagy hahaha

[@malefeministgiangilo287]

We've had a listen Judith. No dice.

[@ikkirr]

you must have been a huge baby

[@PhaIIanxx]

That‘s gold. 😂

[@katebutcher7132]

PEOPLE what Judith is saying is that "gender" is a social construct. She is using a word you have already assigned a different meaning to, let that go. SEX is male female, essentially your biological makeup, if you're born with a penis or a vagina. What she's saying is that from society and ourselves and this "phenomenon" around us, we believe that BECAUSE of our SEX we have to adopt certain traits. For example, you may have a penis but not CONFORM to all stereotypes such as enjoying football.. you may prefer a fashion show? Judith uses a brilliant comment "I have some friends who say "I would die if I had to wear a dress" some of those are men, some of them are women". Just because you're born with a vagina doesn't mean you have to do anything society tells you to, you don't have to wear dresses for example. Essentially Judith is freeing us of all constraints, basically shes saying do what you want! If you're against her then your for society controlling your identity.

[@anarcopinkobrasileru]

Kate Butcher Actually sex isn't a binary opposition, and you don't need to gender testicular/heterogametic or ovarian/homogametic. To call the sexes male and female is just as socially constructed, and also depend on cissexist/dyadist influences on science, academia and discourse. But overall, you're correct.

[@anthonypalka1169]

so if we reduce all of this to a single proposition, "society's control is broken by the actions of the individual," it becomes trivial & is hardly groundbreaking. does an academic discipline *really* need to be created in order to further our "understanding" of something that's a truism? I don't think so. indeed, there's certainly sociologists that have helped, but seldom does this occur on a national level. that's it. all the "performativity" in the world won't change the undeniable fact that men act like men & women act like women. the "left" & "right" are the same beast.

[@LinusFeynstein]

I presume that the reader of my lines here was once in an uterus and that there had been some sort of fertilization before. Whether naturally or done in a petridish doesn't make a fundamental difference. It just means that for all of human history the biological sex was THE reality (and is the reality of your parents). What we humans will do in future with all of our new biotechnological possibilities and our cultural and social freedoms is another question. I think there might actually come a time when we are not bound anymore to our natural heritage. But even if it was to come or is already happening we cannot ignore facts.

[@jonno.alexander]

This poor woman's legitimate questions have been so distorted by the very people who support it (intersecrionalists and their kin). The whole point of questioning gender expression was simply to avoid, as she stated, the "policing" of variance in expression, like manliness/femininity in one culture is different from another, and the social repercussions in straying from those gendered expressions should not be punished or socially persecuted and ostracized. A noble critique in my view. The IRONY is now is its modern, liberal educated supporters are now the police of anyone who resides on the ends of the spectrum: if you are too feminine, you are oppressed by the patriarchy, conversely, if you are too gendered in masculinity and Heaven-forbid, heterosexual, you ARE the patriarchy (and deserve the historical comeuppance due!!) And now supporters of the theory have gona as far as publicly shaming and bullying anyone outside of the minority expressions, poetically eating themselves from within. Shame that the pushback end result might be the discarding of gender performativity theory altogether. It was supposed to offer the student a mental exercise in creating awareness in variance of expression, not make them the judge and jury of it! It was a noble step in accepting variety in expression (in this case the expression of one's gender based on their sex) and the freedom one has of it, but it may have overstepped now...

[@Neuroneos]

@@_blank-_ A lot of big words for you to play around with.

[@Bradley_Lute]

Which is noble, but she is wrong. There is indeed a biological component to gender. Gender is partly cultural yes, but she seems to suggest that it is all it is. Which is kind of hurtful to people who feel very strongly that they are their true gender like classical cis people as well as classical trans people. Trans women have female looking brains. Their are sexed brains.

[@chaun1115]

Judith Butler in line with Big Think values: “There are probably forms of incest that are not necessarily traumatic or which gain their traumatic character by virtue of the consciousness of social shame that they produce.” Judith Butler

[@johnsmith7140]

😲

[@donm1612]

I had to look that up. She did say that, which is of course in line with the father of queer theory, Michel Foucault.

[@DMp-xp6mj]

She's absolutely right tho. In many cultures it was a normal phenomenon to marry cousins together ( sometimes even first cousins) whereas nowadays this is something unheard of

[@chaun1115]

- @@DMp-xp6mj, incest defender

[@davidsprouse151]

I can tell by the comments here that y'all don't know papa freud,

[@StroumTV]

Why would you want to split sex and gender? I sometimes dont feel like a man. Still I am biologically male. Our spirit is always gender/sexless. But its just awesome getting to know your biology. Its part of exploring the material world by firstly accepting our biological vessel. Accepting societal norms that are hopefully adopted to the natural order. We cant change the material world. We can only change our societies but also they are dependent on nature.

[@ramirogutierrez6312]

2:31 She told it. It's just her view.

[@aj-zt8br]

Yeah but it’s her view or ur a homophobic transphobic racist with ties to white supremacy 😂

[@ramirogutierrez6312]

@@aj-zt8br I'm homosexual .

[@aj-zt8br]

@@ramirogutierrez6312 I know I was being sarcastic since usually people who subscribe to her ideology claim to be open minded and they basically say there is some nuance to everything but opinions. They believe that a person can be not a male or a female but nonbinary which is an argument that's kind of valid but to them the only thing thats binary is politics and ideology youre either agree with every word i say or you're just a white supremacist

[@BlackRose2354]

this all goes back to the reality of being an individual. as an individual, you are out of the group, you are yourself. either people accept you or they don't, but they cannot force their opinion or "norm" on you. if they do that, then they are going against your freedom, and if they are allowed to do that, then that diminishes the concept or stand of freedom itself. people are individuals, not groups. the behavior of gender is defined as a personal issue, not a "must-follow" norm.

[@7000Leafs.]

Exactly. They are 'different' not weird. Diversity in Human beings. 💙💜🌸

[@bluefrostryy]

you clearly didnt understand how gender operates then lmao its not a ' personal' thing, specially for those who dont follow what its considered normal

[@Diamondragan]

Ah, yes. Sartre's argument that literature cannot be anti-freedom, because literature invites the reader to freely adopt new ideas. The only thing is that most literature is divinely paternalistic and has very little to do with freedom. That's what the word hypocrisy exists to describe. By itself, no one 'has to' follow gender-sure. But this isn't a harmless decision: access to opportunities will be shaped by such a decision. The reality of rules and enforcement is that you only have to enforce rules 10-15% of the time and people will go along with it for the other 85-90%. Gender norms operate like this just the same as wearing seatbelts and driving under the speed limit.

[@felixjoeldejesus2295]

Estoy leyendo Cuerpos que importan, es la primera vez que leo a Judith Butler y estoy sorprendido me la esperaba mas académica con mucho lenguaje especializado pero es muy entendible

[@triparnakar185]

I just can't stop watching her..she is tremendous.. I just love her speech😍

[@tom-dahl1598]

straight male here. i got bored of performing maleness. it's boringly restrictive. i take what i like now. it's better.

[@siobhanchristine-bligh183]

If you arent taking the piss, im genuinely glad to hear this because people should feel free to do whatever!

[@tom-dahl1598]

@@siobhanchristine-bligh183 yup, truth. just got tired of the nonsense.

[@laylaw.4346]

Alright, so I've been reading this comment section for a while now and I keep hitting on the word 'propaganda'. But propaganda for what exactley? Please enlighten me, I'm puzzled.

[@Ashakat42]

Propaganda for the contingent of society that wants to tear it apart or in the common parlance to "queer" it.

[@yogi2436]

'Gender' now has become to have the same meaning as 'fashion', and fashion means something we can put on and take off as we wish, but wishing has never really made anything 'real', just as ideology has never made anything real , when viewed over time. Ideology contains spectacle, and spectacles never nourish and endure in life enhancing ways. All public shows of gender statements show a desire for increased power and desire for public acclamation. Public acclamation is addictive and requires an ever present audience, and audiences need to be fed by a constant stream of new fashion in order to create a new gender to live in. And on it goes...

[@200ENAV]

I love how Judith Butler herself is finding the words to describe her own notions while she speaks them. it's such an elusive concept you cannot claim anything about it that is unambigous

[@sw.7519]

Insanity disguised as intellectual.

[@chrismcgraw9829]

Such a concept is not actually a concept. It is a feeling. As such, it belongs to the realm of the anti-intellectual.

[@seafoam6119]

cloak it in fancy language and you can sell madness

[@davidm1926]

@@chrismcgraw9829 "It is a feeling. As such, it belongs to the realm of the anti-intellectual." - As does much of psychology? I don't think that's reasonable.

[@chrismcgraw9829]

@@davidm1926 Not sure what you mean, David. Emotions are part of your psychology. Psychology as a science, whenever it is actually a valid science, is predicated on inductive reasoning on the part of the psychologist.

[@SecondLifeDesigner]

I agree with Judith that those who are gender different not be harassed and persecuted. However I totally disagree that gender is a social construct or created by ones behaviors on a minute by minute or day by day basis. You can not change your gender by simply changing the way you behave in society. Just like you can not change your sexual preference just by having sex with a person of the opposite sex or same sex. You simply are attracted to who you are attracted to. It is intrinsic to who we are. How we express ourselves outwardly is molded by our environment and culture. Gender, like sexual preference, is the instrument and the style and type music that is played on it depends on the audience it is being played for.

[@Poodlekisses]

That's exactly what she's saying. Gender performance is the simple honest expression of gender. Its not pretending or something you can change when you feel like it. *Not to be confused with gender fluid*

[@amygilliatt4959]

SecondLifeDesigner gender isn't intrinsic to who we are, but it is fairly 'firm'. nobody has an 'intrinsic gender' based in our genes or unchanging areas of our brains. what we do have is a gendered subjectivity which is a product of social relations and develops from our experiences of wider society, which is not easily changed - but it's not intrinsic. it an entirely a product of our subjectively developed relationship to society

[@ComradeZBunch]

Has anyone else noticed Butler's striking resemblance to Charlie Sheen?

[@andretorres8452]

Or George Soros. She looks more like George Soros.

[@autumnrobertson8073]

To all of the people out there making ugly, cruel comments about Judith Butler, Calling her a man because she doesn't dress traditionally feminine just means she scares you. You're scared of being intellectually challenged by strong, intelligent women because you've been socialized to think they don't exist. But we exist and we're going to change the world. Find a better way to spend your time then commenting about how Butler is "ugly" or a "propagandist" because you're clearly afraid of what you don't understand.

[@zfloyd1627]

Judith Butler is a charlatan, not a "Strong, intellegent woman".

[@flukeskydiver]

Why is it that leftists always know the deep psychological processes of their opponents?

[@bontekoe]

@wereaux Thank you for being so clear about where you stand. I respectfully disagree. No problem for me, I believe there is room enough in this world for many different points of view & I am not interested in proving anything or deciding who is 'right' or 'wrong'. I'm just fascinated with this topic and the different opinions and ideas about it.

[@ivtch51]

I refute what this lady says. Sure I appreciate that sexual roles and sexuality stereotypes are enhanced and encouraged by society in general or by groups within it. However I would insist there is such a thing called a gay soul. In the 60s and 70s, mainly in my teens, before I even knew there was a word called gay or homosexual I ALREADY KNEW there was something very different about me . For example I knew I had a crush on other guys and had no idea why. I KNEW that I could not act like other guys (eg have girl friends, play foot ball etc). It was an extremely lonely, confusing time. It felt like something was innately different inside me despite what overwhelmingly heterosexual society said. It is only later on that I came to give my sexuality a name and discover how to live it out in a meaningful, enjoyable and satisfying way. I find Christian fundamentalists have similar ideas of sexuality fluidity and so to them we choose to be sexuality sinful.

[@junaidkhalid7407]

This is what she said in 272 pages of book.

[@VonDivaTheRebel]

I like Butler's elaboration on gender. :) To me it makes perfect sense, and I think it allows us to see that sex is different from gender. The theory that gender is a social category of masculine and feminine and that sex is the biology of male and female is actually one of the tenets of today's feminist theory. However, the elaboration of sex in feminist theory, the way I see it, is only viewing the biology of the binary gender, rather than other gender identities. :/

[@badgerattoadhall]

I hate it its anti the holy trinity....biology physics and chemistry

[@coreyfisher2542]

Everyone imagines they are helping. So few actually are.

[@JosePerez-he1do]

The mental gymnastics and conjecture are a sight to be hold.

[@John-lf3xf]

Jose Perez dumb conservatives like you are the reason there is never a sense of finality. Because you guys can never sense the real issue. Not only do you need to demonstrate how synthetics out of any persons control exist and construct our being, we also have to explain the origin of this delusional phenomenon of us controlling all of reality which is precisely where this retarded notion of gender control comes from. I think, therefore I am.

[@minecraftparkourredditstories]

@@John-lf3xf blah blah blah blah mindless jargon doesn't make this pseudoscience real kid

[@enoughvincent]

@@minecraftparkourredditstories Why is it pseudoscience?

[@raspberryberet4544]

Seems to be contradictory. On the one hand gender is an inner sense of who you are and simultaneously it's socially constructed . People seem to have forgotten basic biology.

[@polish2x91]

How she made it this far without being found out for the fraud she is, is a real testament to how much the universities are socially engineering the culture

[@DeepStreamBits]

People seem to have forgotten basic logic

[@voltijuice8576]

It's almost as if people's inner life can be informed by external events and information! It's a feedback loop where we and the world are influencing each other.

[@ayanokojikiyotaka2413]

Wrong,In your simple minded language,Fuck gender norms I'll be what I want,It's my feeling of what I am, rather than norms being imposed on me,get it,I can create and change myself.

[@daisy7066]

Identity isn't about "gender" ! That's the fundamental lie in all this. There also seems to be some confusion when it comes to assessing the play between environment and "choice", something she seems rather certain about. I'd like to hear more about the kin relations around these issues which one never hears about as if such people exist in a vacuum & their relational context has nothing to do with it, their family politics has nothing to do with it, yet some go as far as mutilating themselves - anything so as not to face up to their problems. Very irresponsible to see the medical profession colluding in this. There's also a problem with the idea of a "performative" gender, in the end there are women who have deep voices and sound like men and even behave in some ways like men but don't go as far as self identifying as such. Why would they need to? To go to the extremes of changing your physical body means something more troubling is happening. I've read JB claims that trans-critical feminists don't represent the feminist movement - and she does? The feminist movement isn't an academic movement it's a social movement, always has been.

[@whitneykeen3561]

I think gender is implicitly, or sometimes explicitly co-constructing with identity, until one’s sense of gender arrives as a meta-construction framing further identity development. In some families gender is imposed- that is, it is explicitly performative. Does that make sense?

[@tachikomakusanagi3744]

I'm beginning to understand my ancestors attitude towards what they called witches. I think they might have had something there.

[@jayweh]

I don't really understand butler's point of performativity. for instance, as a kid I liked playing with cars and dolls. I built forts and played school teacher...so very mixed. I did like doing 'girly' stuff a little more. I am not interested in numbers, physics, electronics etc. and I think that is totally me feeling that. no one is forcing me into the role of a woman who loves talking more than staring into the tv scratching my belly so to speak. nor am I painting my finger nails all day or think about hairstyles and make up. I just don't feel like I am doing a gender someone forced onto me.

[@arnav8162]

I think you're mistaking discursive with coercive

[@2wheelz3504]

That is because you are not. You are being your sexed self and that is not gender. You have a sex and you are you behaving the way you are comfortable. You are not moving among genders. You are behaving according to the way you are made within your sex, and that has a significant amount of variety.

[@jayweh]

@@2wheelz3504 I'm "being my sexed self"? that sounds like nonsense. the best way to describe what I am is: I'm being me. with a variety of interests and behaviors. leave my sex out of it. what I have between my legs has zero to do with it.

[@jayweh]

@@2wheelz3504 I'm being my sexed self? that's nonsense. I being myself, regardless of what is between my legs.

[@YUWEEWUW3944]

From what I understand is that gender is a role to take on and at the start we are a blank/undifferentiated and the environment will form us who we are in terms of gender. Understandable but humans aren't a blank slate in the beginning.

[@christianbolt5761]

Maybe we should called it No Think

[@ryanformiles]

u look like jamie lannister n its good

[@seanieboi1234]

the only comment that sort of makes sense

[@thegod2291]

@@seanieboi1234 true , I mean when it comes to gender politics out brains die

[@sarahmouncher9360]

Isn't she just doing the same thing as the bully though? Just in a progressive sounding way. The bully says: "You're a girl, so act in a girly way" Butler says: "You're acting in a girly way, so you must be a girl" Shouldn't we stop putting people into boxes based on their behaviour or their gender expression? You can be a woman, and act as masculine or as feminine as you want. And same for men and non-binary people. In my view, your gender is an inner sense. I know that makes it hard to define and conceptualise, but not everything needs a concrete definition. The colour red, for instance. You could say something about light waves, perhaps. But you couldn't make a blind person truly understand what it means for something to be red. I think the same applies to gender. You can't explain what it is to be a woman, but if you are a woman then you 'just know' that you are one.

[@jamiedorsey4167]

I'm mostly on board with what you say. Though I still don't really understand the notion of gender being an inner sense divorced from the world. Isn't someone's conception of a man or a woman based in large part on the external definitions a culture uses? I feel like a man because of how I define being a man, which I get in large measure from my experience and the culture. I have a broad definition, I have many traditionally feminine characteristics, I could adopt a more narrow and traditional view of manhood and call myself non binary instead, but I don't because of the externally sourced definitions I choose to adopt.

[@notu1529]

No, she is not inversing the way of bullies, she is doing a meta-gender where she deconstructs what gender and human beings really are. Here, she states that gender is produced by the human senses and reason (mind) based on our physical attributes (biology), and this is an evolving phenomenon where our conception of gender changes or is not set in stone; it reproduces. To make a generalized conception of gender is imprecise because we are not considering every physical attribute that constitutes gender categories, and we still do not know every physical feature of gender. This is precisely why gender non-conforming people exist in our society with imprecise gender conceptions.

[@RobotPilots]

Her argument is not "you look like a girl, so you must be a girl" her argument is how a lot of what we perceive as gender norms are not internal or based in objective truth, but rather social standards, and with this we portray our (keyword: OUR, to assume autonomy) gender identity externally with the way we act and present.

[@rbns9875]

"she was looking to harass me" *chuckles* Now that's some confidence. I've been wanting to read her works for a while now, this gave me the final push

[@minutemenisgre1]

good luck lmao great mind but writes like a devil

[@CameronCajun]

But then she adds~, "or maybe she was curious and just wanted to know." See, that gives me pause. If she herself is saying that the undertone of the question was just as likely pure curiosity, then why lead with, "she was looking to harass me"? I'm suspect at anyone who purveys their confidence narrative interpreting every jab, offense, or inquiry as harassment or an attack. "Even bullies have bullies and most aren't bullies" -- I forgot who said that (maybe I did) -- meaning: We all have had trespasses on our dignity. It doesn't mean we infuse every minor curtailment of our experience as a deliberate liberty infringement so that we can chalk ourselves up another victory with raised fist.

[@rbns9875]

@@CameronCajun That's a good point, although I'm not sure about Judith Butler being the type of person you're talking about. Neither of us were there when it happened or know them personally (I assume), so we'll never know the real intentions of the young woman. Either way, whether it was genuine or wrongly perceived aggression, i just thought it was cool how calm and confident Butler was in that moment to be able to smile about it. It's a skill I lack, and she certainly has a lot to be confident about, a big chunk of her entire career is openly expressing her opinions and standing for them. I don't know about the particular situation she's referencing in this interview, or a lot about Judith Butler in general to be honest, besides the basics. I'd just like to be able to hold my own like her and be half as self-assured. That's why I don't think she perceives every confrontational situation as a fight she just has to win, she's so unaffected and chill about it. Seems to me like it's all in good humour with this anecdote

[@CameronCajun]

@@rbns9875 I applaud your honest introspection. It's a character trait that requires humility and a desire to improve oneself. I can only imagine if more people prioritized such endeavors. My comment regarding Butler was a manifest crest of frustration perusing her speeches and lectures, but words of frustration nonetheless. Many of her examples and testimonies seem to need related in plural versions. "It's like this, or this, or maybe this" and I'm left thinking, "Wait, you can't move on; I'm still unclear on this point.." Something like that.... After a while, you just wish the speaker would be more concise or ....narrow? Can I say "narrow"? Anyway, the fact that you are visualizing, describing, and prescribing a behavior that you desire to be empowered with is a terrific accomplishment. I'm sure you'll have that licked by the time the sun sets, and tomorrow you'll be on to a new improvement! Cheers... (And I'll try some of that introspection myself. Lord knows I need it.)

[@rbns9875]

@@CameronCajun Thank you! What a kind thing to say to a stranger. I'm sure I won't be exempt from moments of frustration either once I really get into her works, if Kacper Kusio's and your comment are any implication. I look forward to it though :) Good luck on your endeavours as well, cheers! xx

[@69waltersg]

How could that lady have possibly guessed correctly that Judith was a lesbian, and why did Judith assume it was to harass her?

[@donm1612]

No. What is performative is the anxiety concerning a reality that fails to conform to one's own delusion. The attempts to detach gender from biology mirrors the detachment Butler and people like her have with the world as it is. For her, it is truly a performance, perhaps second nature by now. For everyone else, the performance is something we must adopt, or else.

[@johnsmith7140]

Indeed

[@filipedecarvalho3390]

Not once she mentions biology as an important factor. And no, I don't believe in biological determinism but developmental psychologists have known for decades that boys and girls differ from an early age, before even any socialization happens. To claim that all "performances" are constructed randomly without a biological basis would make us wonder how male and female behavioral universals could have arisen at all. The same patterns can be noticed over and over and in societies that had no contact with each other and that's way before this globalized world in which we live.

[@phosphorous4712]

Filipe de Carvalho unfortunately, there is no point at which socialization begins, making this debate difficult. French and German babies cry differently- French with an upward note at the end and German with a lowering one. To say that gendered socialization begins with a child’s “active” awareness of the world around them is... well, false, regardless of where you stand in the debate. We are socialized and placed in a gendered paradigm at times before our sex is even examined via ultrasound!

[@rodwells15]

@@phosphorous4712 What,,,are you that deluded...where did you get that choice bit if research from

[@siobhanchristine-bligh183]

Yes to a certain extent, but most Sexologists and Biologists now kind of see gender maping onto sex as a spectrum, with Extreme: Male, Extreme Female on one end. Most people exist within the middle of thier studies, and have attributes we could call both masculine and feminine. Butler, though she does piss me off a bit, is attempting to explain how socieities talk about gender- as if the language we use is real 100%, but really psychologicaly we might not always easily map how and why we do what we do, with reference to inernt biology. I view the whole debate around this with growing interest, as I think people vary soooooooooooo much that its hard to determine the exact role of psychology and society!

[@siobhanchristine-bligh183]

@@finchbevdale2069 Hmmmm, no they are not universal. But there are distinct scientific commonialities, or thematic inferences. I think thats whats pretty interesting, its hard to unpick what is someone's sex, and why they act because of thier societal gender!

[@stoicforall]

Some extremists in the radical intersectional feminism have taken Butler's ideas too far, what she is advocating in fact is empathy towards people who act in a non-normative way.

[@R1821g]

She also doesn't mean to say that gender/sex (which to her are merely different expressions of the same thing) AS A CONCEPT doesn't exist, but rather that the ways in which differences are defined are arbitrary (only one/few out of many more options) and no more essential than any other interpersonal differences that you could base a category on.

[@aidarkaroev]

@@R1821g we also have to take into account the fact that Butler is deleuzian, which means that for her any identity is based upon irreducible differences, and not the other way around

[@Bradley_Lute]

By saying that all gender is a performative... Sure not all people are gender normative and that is perfectly fine but she is absolutely wrong in her assertion that gender is totally performative. It has both an innate and cultural component. I would even go as far to say that her gender is innate to her because i'm sure her parents and culture did not make her boyish, that was how she was born.

[@Bradley_Lute]

@Meister Incognito that is all fine! That is the natural state of that person. I am highly atypical as well. But to deny that their is a large biological and genetic component to our gender is highly suspect. I think Butler has a lot more nuance in her argument but that hasn't really shown through in modern feminist mainstream discourse. Sure gender is partly a construction, but most cultures have similar roles and most primates have similar roles. Sure, the traditional gender modes didn't make room for much variation but I think that outlook is a relic of a particular phase of society. By unifying nature and nurture in our explanation, we are better able to speak to the full range of human gendered experience. Trans people, at least classical trans, can be explained by innate biological impulses. Just because they are atypical doesn't mean they aren't expressing an innate part of themselves. Furthermore, by exclaiming that gender is a construct, we push hyper gendered people to the opposite end of the spectrum of biological essentialism. But neither extreme seems right to me when both would suffice. A typical person doesn't exist, just an average person.

[@Bradley_Lute]

@Meister Incognito that is the performative aspect of your self that is shifting in response to cultural expectations. But your androgynous self is able to be itself when you're alone. I'm similar in that way and always have been. But those people that have very strong gender impulses probably don't have the same experience as we do! We can't conclude that our feelings on gender say anything about gender being a construct. For me, I think my gender is very much a product of having a single mother until I was 5. Even though I still have very strong male inclinations, I have been influenced by my mother. To me this is nature and nurture interacting to form a unique individual.

[@Mary8950Dio]

It’s a language all her own.. Freud reborn

[@GuitarCoverForMyself]

I never understood Butler to the core, I mean: Aren't there biological differences between man and female? Like genitals, hormones etc? Can someone help me? Would be greatly appreciated.

[@quadpad_music]

I think her thing is pointing out the difference between biological traits (sex) and the behaviors we assign to people based on them, via culture (gender).

[@YayaBolender]

I understand that some people may feel not the same inside as their "presentation", but what is valid for this person is not automatically true for everybody. I never wondered what I was, I always knew I was a girl, and I always wanted to have long hair and wear rings. Sure, it's more convenient to feel exactly how we look. But imposing this strange vision to the whole world, that chocks me. Being different doesn't mean being universal, as being "regular" doesn't mean it's valid for everybody.

[@GeorgWilde]

Violence is not imposed by ideals. Ideals are passive and can only inform action. Violence is an action performed by individuals.

[@raqreqentba]

You are assuming she is talking about your definition, but she isn't. Butler is referencing symbolic violence.

[@eldevenirdelostiempos9764]

This reminds me of the interview where an african anchor asks a gay activist why she's gay and she just answers "who says I'm gay" and the anchor is just confused.

[@sebastienriou6603]

y r u ge?

[@heatsink47]

@@sebastienriou6603 L G B T Q Where is da h?

[@sebastienriou6603]

@@heatsink47 da banana

[@parul6658]

😂😂😂

[@huzaifamalik7678]

it was a trans activist which is why the quesiton "are you gay" confused everyone if i recall correctly

[@Kaymen1980]

We are males and females behaving.. "Nonbinary" is nonsensical

[@Bibirallie]

Judith needs to distinguish gender and gender stereotypes and roles.

[@SilverGrizzly]

This woman has never done a hard day of work in her life!

[@davidsprouse151]

she's brilliant!

[@cod1409]

Interesting video, I knew about her, but it's the first time I'm really getting into her theory. One question though : isn't it a bit contradictory to say that gender is culturally formed (in other words determined) and then say that you have a liberty, an agency to define your own gender ?

[@Neuroneos]

Something being culturally determined and not biologically determined means the thing is malleable in itself, since cultures vary.

[@stellan8965]

We gender certain actions and attributes pretty arbitrarily as a society. the individual then takes on these attributes in order to perform their gender.

[@Descanlin]

It's no more contradictory than to say that in writing, specific themes, genres, motifs, ideas, plot-points, resolutions, are culturally formed ideas, and that you as a writer have the liberty to write your own book. You can use those pieces just described in writing your story, or you can discard them all or most of them all and go at it as self-built as possible. Genders cultural formation is the pieces of gender that you can then pick from or discard as you see fit in defining your own gender; the more culturally-described pieces you use in your gender (or in your writing) the more easily others can understand it, but that doesn't make either formation-style better or worse than the other.

[@glorton7119]

Your self-identification, ultimately determined by your free will, is informed by the culture you are in. You cannot escape the influence the world has on your mind.

[@SOLOcan]

​@@hema5638 No not really because stereotype implies that there is a better or more "real" way of getting to the truth of what the stereotype portrays.

[@fancysimple8415]

Judith, “Gender is Performative” takes several layers of definitions to get to its meaning. I would propose a simpler phrase: gender is abstraction of social roles and behaviors projected from physical sex. It might be inadequate to describe sex as binary, male or female, as well as gender being man or woman.

[@qncqn619]

1 will someone explain genetics to this lady 2 y is a literature prof talking about gender?

[@SmashingCapital]

You dont know what gender is watch the video

[@qncqn619]

The title of the video is "Your BEHAVIOR Creates Your GENDER" Sorry but genetics disagrees. You are born the way you are. No one gets to choose. I wish you would have read AND understood my comment before lashing out at a stranger simply for a difference of opinion. If you don't agree with my viewpoint that is your CHOICE, but don't get snippy at a complete stranger for it. Be a moral person and just agree to disagree. We don't have to agree to coexist.@@SmashingCapital

[@user-kj2ts3uf4v]

you are confusing sex (XX, XY) with gender (masculine, feminine)

[@qncqn619]

@@user-kj2ts3uf4v You clearly didnt fully read the comment. Its interesting how its allowed that people can be different genders or sex as you say but not have a different opinion. Kinda destroying your own argument.

[@Tigenraam]

"Are you a lesbian?" "Yes I am." Well color me surprised.

Tigenraam And a vicious man hating one at that who WITHOUT A POSSIBLE DOUBT would make it perfectly Legal for a woman her age to take a prepubescent girl to her bed......

[@lakiog1938]

@ ahahaha ur a loser.

[@JTassassins]

To everyone that clearly doesn't understand anything in the comments tell me, does your dog perform there gender? Whether they are male or female??

[@zfloyd1627]

Utter pseudoscience.

[@9hank]

This comment section is like a p-zombie sink strainer.

[@9hank]

I was going to delete this comment but then I reread some of the comments posted and decided it's a valid assessment.

[@9hank]

anonymous, posting one's emissions as opinions really doesn't count.

[@tanvirsiddique6626]

There are 2 types of ignoramus. 1. He knows that he doesn't know, 2. He doesn’t know that he doesn’t know.

[@ProdigySim]

"There are institutional powers, like psychiatric normalization, and there are informal kinds of practices, like bullying, which try to keep us in our gendered place. There's a real question for me about how such gender norms get established and policed, and what the best way is to disrupt them and overcome the police function." Is this the "Gay Agenda" I've been hearing so much about?

[@FreeTicketsX]

She comes across like she is smart, but doesn’t get the simplest things it’s crazy

[@zarmeza]

"Your behavior validates my regressive gender stereotypes" there you go, fixed.

[@doubaoa6428]

Pov: You know that nerds will be convinced of anything if your book is obscure enough

[@markoristic7575]

Michael Douglas has some interesting philosphical views

[@derekgrossheider7207]

dude.... this is fucking hilarious

[@finngreen8192]

Oh my god, I choked😂

[@ghy518]

Biology (nature) and culture (nurture) create your behavior, your behavior then creates your gender. This is how I understand what she means

[@jorgemachado5317]

It's a great way t put it!

[@zfloyd1627]

Except that the statement that behavior creates gender is complete drivel.

[@CH-sl1yd]

judith butlers gender is performative.

[@heliusfacenna4109]

Really? So what is Judith's gender, and where did you read their identification of self?

[@CH-sl1yd]

@@heliusfacenna4109 you missed the point.

[@heliusfacenna4109]

@@CH-sl1yd So are you going to make 'the point' more clearly...?

[@anarchist_parable]

It's amazing how her worldview imposes the rigid paradigms that she's against. I didn't choose to menstruate at 10, I didn't perform puberty, I didn't identify as a sexual being I grew into one. At the time there was no costume that would make me less of a woman, I was just a "certain type" of woman. There's a basic vulnerability that comes with that, there's the reality that I have to disrobe half of my body just to urinate, that I'm smaller than most of my surroundings. Legitimate things that I had to navigate regardless of how I felt personally. Sex exists, gender has always been the sex-based roles imposed by cultures. To call those imposed behaviors the truth is reductive. An outfit or a mannerism has nothing to do with anyone's identity. She literally classifies the toxic categories that we've tried to stray away from as the whole of our being. We've set the clock back remarkably far and are actually more obsessed with masculinity and femininity and binary behavior than we have been in decades.

[@tofupowda]

what are you saying? everyone has to disrobe half of their body to urinate. your entire essay is nonsensical, and im trying to be as kind as possible. "There's a basic vulnerability that comes with that" no there isn't. you feel vulnerable because you have been taught to. when men insult other men by saying, "you sit when you pee", they are implying that it's inferior, "feminine" and weak to do that. it is ingrained in your mind to take up less space, be quieter, 'feel small'. that doesnt mean it's natural to feel that way. i simply suggest you read more books because your world view is so sad and heavily influenced by biological essentialism. you are setting everyone back, decades.

[@aaronwilliams]

@@tofupowda "everyone has to disrobe half of their body to urinate" yes thats why mens restrooms are filled with half naked men standing next to each other at the urinals

[@xOsKaHH]

excellently put. It speaks volumes that people who are obsessive with gender as their identity either express themselves completely based in a way completely contrarian to any norm, where by traditional gender expression are even more so a predictor of their identity, by the simple fact that they are compulsively making themselves the inverse of whatever it is, or they heavily regress into the binary. Trans folk for example are overwhelmingly hyper feminine or hyper masculine, Their identity becomes no more than a very regressive costume that is more 1953 than 2023 and more enforcing of the binary than anything i've come across. men and women in their world becomes exclusively masculine and feminine, and masculine and feminine is exclusively male or female. It is actually very very hard to come up with a greater paradox then the one queer theory inhabits.

[@anarchist_parable]

@@tofupowda Why are you so threatened by very basic realities? Men's clothing is designed around the fact that they stand to pee. I've literally watched my husband pull the tip of his penis out of the leg of his shorts and pee on a wall. A man attacked while peeing could run away pretty easily. Women literally have to be half naked to pee. It's one of the many simple things in our lives that makes us vulnerable. Truthfully even people who subscribe to queer theory know the vulnerability if females bodies as fact. There's no steep advocacy for trans men in male spaces because having a vulva makes you unsafe in those spaces. Trans women's argument is based on the fact that even presenting as female makes a person vulnerable. What I don't understand is why it's so easy for me as an oppressed person to empathize with people struggling with identity issues but why those same people need me to deny my e tire experience in order to feel valid. The entire history of female oppression is based on our biology from my ancestors being bread like dogs on plantations to being denied education and land because we menstruate to it being a requirement that we suppress our biology in order to thrive in a patriarchal society like young girls being almost socially required to take birth control from 14 until whenever without being adequately educated on the side effects to their systems even if they don't want children. The current society is designed in such a way that a biological male could make CEO without much or any physical sacrifice and be at the peak of physical health. A biological woman is most likely going to have to make physiological adjustments along the way or risk success. I would never appropriate a trans experience, I understand that people are uncomfortable and need love an attention and I'm willing to listen. I don't understand though why so many trans advocates seem to think that they have to diminish my experiences as a woman and redefine my being in order for them to be valid. That. Creates a supremacy of our struggles. Why can't you see that when I'm 2 months postpartum staving off mastitis in my right breast and working in a hot kitchen hearing the trans woman at my job talking about shopping for water bras and calling them "breasts" is offensive? There are physical realities to having a female body, we aren't an aesthetic. Why is it so important to you that our two struggles be considered exactly the same and how do we maintain safety and acknowledgment for all of us if one of us has to give up our identity for the other?

[@tofupowda]

@@xOsKaHH by this logic you should be all for the elimination of gender as a whole, except youre not. you dont even believe what you're saying

[@yansumagpao1971]

Thanks judith butler for explaining it

[@Bilangumus]

Explaining what ? That Biology wich has evolved for billions of years doesn't exist anymore because of this crazy dude ?

[@davidsprouse151]

@@Bilangumus I think she's engrossing!

[@floridaboy1700]

You're confusing "Gender" for "Personality".... everyone should read Martha Nussbaum's critique of Judith Butler. Well worth the read!

[@mycroftholmes7379]

indeed, she does..plus, she misunderstood a lot of ideas of Heidegger and de Beauvoir. The two of them were on the idea of "social role" and has nothing whatsoever to do with "gender performativity"....

[@roxanne4820]

and my professors persistently push her and other thinkers alike onto us

[@peppermintgal4302]

​@CankerousBooch Arís "Subversive activists" Shut the fuck up, reactionary. Market Driven culture wouldn't be good, btw, markets are currently driving genocide in the Congo.

[@luaquinomar]

gosh what a deeply depressing comment section

[@jennifersinclair7249]

I was born female and I tried really hard to like things that are stereotypically male but I never made it. I ended up with 95% of all my interests stereotypically female!

[@relaxingsounds1386]

Because you're . . . female.

[@Schopenhauer69]

And there is nothing wrong with that. Why did u want to like things you didn't already like?

[@radthadd]

@Son Of Rabat don't even waste ur time mate

[@Diamondragan]

Whose stereotypology are we talking about, exactly? The Holy Roman Empire?

[@thealmightyaku-4153]

@@Diamondragan Yes. You will find most of our gender stereotypes are the gender stereotypes of almost every culture throughout history, or very similar.

[@Scott-tw1hm]

Can behaviour also create a person's ethnicity? Their date of birth? Their species? Their nationality? Why not?

[@franciscojr.latorre3890]

Having been brainwashed by a heteronormative society, we grew up thinking that people are limited to parts of their bodies and to functions ascribed to them by this corrupting and corrupted society. I thank the likes of Butler who continue to educate people about this serious issue of "othering" which hides behind the veil of conservativity.

[@relaxingsounds1386]

lol!! No one brainwashed you.

[@moodrahkamite818]

What happened to "Born this way?"

[@Kim-uj3ti]

I've read so many theories from her and I always thought she was brilliant. Had no idea that there were videos of her arguing for her theories. Also, I don't think she is wrong or right for that matter, she's a theorist/rhetorician who does her job, a very good one at that.

[@Kim-uj3ti]

@Ash Hegde 4 years later and I'm om my way to a PhD program now, thanks for bringing me back to 4 years ago. I now have a better understanding of gender performance, and white heteropatriarchy and the way these systems hurt POC and basically hurt everyone and ONLY benefit white Cis people. I stand by what I said and I will also continue using anti-racist theories in my own teachings 🙂

[@davide7708]

@@Kim-uj3ti You literally wasted 4 years of your only life (and probably the rest of your life) with the most unscientific beliefs. I'm really sad for you.

[@Kim-uj3ti]

@@davide7708 the only time I'm wasting is when lowlives watch a butler video and feel like talking shit to a comment from 4 years ago. I love my life and I am quite fulfilled, stop projecting here. I don't need anyone but especially a man (out of all things 😂) a man 😂😂😂 commenting on my time.

[@davide7708]

@@Kim-uj3ti The fact you use those emoji while talking about "a man" it's a proof you've been completely brainwashed without hope of coming back to reality. And I answered to a comment of two months ago, not four years ago... and you're a PhD lol.

[@wattlebough]

@@Kim-uj3ti Gender is an objective scientific descriptor. It’s not intrinsically an identity type. Identity exists outside of gender in personality type and absorbed culture. Gender must be separate from identity for evolutionary reasons pertaining to propagation of the species.

[@FBAagent]

It makes sense that its cultural, like for example in Scandinavia, women can do stuff that men do like lifting things up, being independant and stuff. In Eastern Europe, Southern Europe, Latin America where the culture is more ''traditional'' people will be surprised or even angered that women are allowed or empowered to do such things.

[@RenatoKestener]

Just by people's reactions to such theories you can see how important they are, and how deep they touch people's values. I once read that gender studies are one of the most revolutionary philosophies of our current times and I couldn't agree more. It hits a lot of people right in the stomach (in a good way).

[@Olivia-xt1rx]

Renato Kestener I’m in a gender studies class for the first time in college and I have never taken a class that is so eye-opening and mind expanding it’s just wild to think about how our culture and society perpetuates ideas onto us and based on reading some of these comments some people are really bothered by the idea that gender is a social construct

[@RenatoKestener]

@@Olivia-xt1rx I can only imagine! I just read Gender Trouble and trying to digest everything. It is not an easy process, it is even sometimes scary to deconstruct yourself in such an intense way, but I'm still surprised on how people can get so offended by it.

[@RenatoKestener]

​@@_blank-_ "merely philosophical"... nothing more to add.

[@alessiodattilo6987]

The concept that gender is exclusively societal has been disproven by neuroscience

[@Olivia-xt1rx]

anonymous well to be specific, my class is “gendered spaces” and mainly explores gender in different areas. Work vs home, science, etc. We also learned in class that in the case of intersex people, surgeries to “correct” their genitals in order to assign them a sex as newborn babies has extreme consequences. Sometimes it works out and people grow up to feel happy with the sex they’ve been assigned and develop a “matching” gender identity. Others however, are emotionally and physically scarred and while they may have been given a vagina at birth, now identify as male or neither gender and are unhappy with the life altering changes they have received. Societal pressures disguised as scientific fact led to this. Our very doctors and biologists are just as gender driven as you and I. Of course medical studies and biology text will look a certain way-because it’s gendered. It’s instilled in all of us. Doesn’t mean that’s necessarily a bad thing, but it’s interesting to learn about how much gender really influences our lives

[@yesplease6399]

From the start, children up to the age of around 2, have no idea of gender. Even past 2, some children will not understand what 'girls clothes' or 'boys clothes' are. Gender is definitely performative imo.

[@Hermenegilda77]

That‘s an insane lost lady telling only crappy nonsence she herself does‘t get

[@relaxingsounds1386]

The idea that gender is a socio-linguistic construct comes from humanities departments. The assertion that nornative gender behaviors are deeply rooted in biological sex comes from science departments. As a humanities major, I'll go with the science departments.

[@mollydiaz1558]

this is a childish view, economics is also a humanities department lmfao. Like the idea of STEM being inherently more "real" than other forms of education is what you learn in school assemblies, it is not a coherent worldview of a society that needs all.

[@MediocreApologist]

plz don't comment unless you have an understanding of Foucauldian discourse. Thanks.

[@williamruth3544]

@D Maxson "filosofy is dooble spek me no read filosofer" crybaby

[@jbagger331]

So nobody gets to comment?

[@ReplyequalsNerd]

Sorry, I'm a dumbass that's read 1984 and watches joe rogan, I get to comment all the drivel I want

[@altGoolam]

All of these philosophies are just nature vs nurture arguments. And I think we can safely say there is a nature, and there is something objectively good we nurture. For our collective welfare. And that support each other. My problem with Judith Butler's argument is that all policing is bad because all policing limits freedom and personal agency. But we have to recognise that there is policing that is necessary to preserve the collective agency. People can exercise their personal agency in ways that undermine the collective welfare. And we do see that with children and in environments where presenting sex, sexuality and gender in negative ways, can and do disrupt the social fabric where we exercise our agency. It's totally necessary to police. Once you introduce consent you HAVE to ask if others are affected by my choice. Not just whether I need their consent or not. But whether the social fabric is disrupted or not.

[@Hellburner-D]

"Are you a lesbian?!" "Yes! I am!" Why did the young lady in the car ask that? Is Judiths response a gender normative reply? Are you dressing and acting the part of a lesbian based on cultural norms of what a lesbian should look like?

[@daydream1329]

That's exactly what she is trying to demonstrate! That is her theory. Butler doesn’t exclude herself when it comes to the performativity of gender. Of course her being a lesbian is a performative in her theory, u got it!

[@lewiscopland4568]

Judith never says she's excludes from gender performance, in fairness. She might be the first to admit that she dresses "like a lesbian" due to the social expectations of what a lesbian should look like.

[@davidsprouse151]

Do you people really think through these things (discursively) about your fellow human beings? Not sure what the utility is of that. Abstraction is great in certain circumstances. I just feel maybe it's time to work on relationships. But maybe y'all are good.

[@pauljames9576]

Judith Butler should debate Jordan Peterson on this issue among many other. That would sure be interesting.

[@mirkimc3]

Don't feed the troll. Peterson understands that just right.

[@consciousparentscostarica691]

This woman is not a psychologist, she never did a job of self-knowledge and of making the unconscious conscious, therefore she does not realize that she is simply talking about personality traits. In psychology we use personality models. Personally, I use the model that seems most complete to me, to help us get to know ourselves. Most adults don't know themselves, but they demand that a teenager who is just starting down the road to becoming an adult do so. This personality model consists of 9 different personality types. Each person can identify with one of them. Of course, each one is unique and different and does not fit perfectly, but this model serves as a map. Regardless of whether you were born female or male, each of these personality types and all human beings have masculine energy and feminine energy. (This has nothing to do with sex, it's personality.) Four of these personality types have more feminine than masculine energy, 4 of them have more masculine than feminine energy, and only one of them has the two energies in balance. This does not define the sexual orientation of people at all. This model of gender ideology, of which she is one of its ideologues, is taking on aspects that simply have to do with your personality and your masculine and feminine energies. All human beings have both energies and in fact they change over time and as we heal internally these energies become even more balanced in their positive aspects. This ideology is becoming one of the greatest sexual and psychological abuses of humanity. It is confusing children and adolescents, making them believe that our parents committed the great audacity of assigning us the sex at birth. With this logic, there are thousands of children and adolescents who are believing that because they have one of these personality types that has, for example, more feminine energy than masculine, then they were born in the wrong body (I repeat this has nothing to do with sexuality) . Their ideology is contradicted since they live complaining about ëstereotypes "but then if a child wants to play with a dollhouse, he is trans. Then they are given hormone blockers and then surgery is reached when what had to be done was to work therapeutically on the dissociation that the person is experiencing. It is a tragedy and a crime against minors. There are thousands of young people detransitioning at this time because they were indoctrinated with these ideas. The forerunners of these ideas, instead of working internally with all their internal conflicts and confronting them are projected onto minors.Their ego claims and screams for their theories to be confirmed by minors while their ego grows larger and larger.

[@jonathan3504]

I loove the way Butler sees the gender realities within one non-single reality. You are imposed a gender without your assent, then you are obliged to perform the imposed gender in this stage called "society", and the repetition of those gender practices or discourses make your gender be performative (not being like that, evidently).

[@deepthidinesh7495]

can u briefly tell me about performance and performativity

[@jonathan3504]

@Son Of Rabat Science has made mistakes lots of times. Why would this one be different?

[@disenfranchising]

It seems you agree with her but then at the end you say : "not being like that, evidently" so I got confused. What is your opinion?

[@rosoursecret2932]

“Nobody is really gender from first time” YES because genders don’t mean SHXT..! Human species are distinguished by two sexes: female and male. And social fixation of each sexed bodies’ common traits are gender which is the same as gender stereotypes. What? If you act feminine then your “gender” is female? How any more sexist this claim can be?

[@bokutop.2067]

1) She says it's NOT acting or role-playing. She says it's different to say gender is performed and to say gender is performative. You didn't listen. 2) She said (but not in this movie) sex is also gendered.

[@GeoffV-k1h]

My biggest issue with the idea of performative behaviour being the key driver of gender, is that humans have evolved from animals. In other mammalian species we see animals behaving in a way which is determined by sex. Male rabbits are not bullied by rabbit warren societies into behaving as male rabbits; likewise females. They do what comes naturally. Now some will say this is an absurd analogy, but biological sex for humans surely cannot be dismissed as entirely irrelevant - to do so would be to say that our natural evolution as a species plays no part.

[@IAND-wg8fq]

oh my god she's a "professor"? 😅🤣😂😂😂😂😅🤣

[@TwilightHunter9]

some of yall dont know the difference between sex and gender and it shows

[@MrBookaholic99]

Can someone explain to me what the difference between "performed" and "performative" is?

[@Neuroneos]

Performed means Gender is a constantly reiterated act. Performative means the act of performing Gender produces a series of effects both on yourself and on others, who "perceive" the perpetrated act.

[@javierlisto4991]

"performativity" is a notion used in linguistics (Austin). A sentence becomes performative when it does what it says. For instance, the sentence a bride can pronounce at a weeding "I do" is performative because the words are not only pronounced, they are producing a certain effect. Likewise, gender characteristics are not simply there, they are producing the impression, and consolidating the "meaning" that we are a certain gender. sorry for my english

[@surjoohitanand783]

Judith Butler theory on performativism is crucial for those who are still juggling between themselves and their gender identity . It is an absolute truth which can alter people views on sexuality.

[@BuGGyBoBerl]

calling that an absolute truth is absurd. even if you just look at it from a methodical standpoint

[@davidsprouse151]

@@BuGGyBoBerl they meant it in the colloquial sense (I think)

[@MrGlennJohnsen]

People need to understand that you have a biological gender, or sex, and a expressed (performed) gender. The expressed gender is arguably 'forced' on you from the moment your parents learn your sex. If your parents are expecting a girl then society norms expect you to be a certain way, the "normalized" picture of the way a girl (or boy) should behave, what colors they should like, what toys and so on. When these experiences are pushed on you then you adapt to them, you get imprinted by them and you start to go into the stereotypes that society expect you to do. If you don't then you're seen as a 'weirdo' and are open for harassment and ridicule, we know it's not right to do so and yet it happens. What Judith tries to put out into the world isn't that girls dislike pink dolls, or that boys dislike blue trucks. Stereotypes are there for a reason, that said the developing child and adult shouldn't be put into a box called "man" or "woman" which are the social constructs. It's these boxes that cause conflicts and act like barriers for a lot of individuals who might've grown into a completely different person (for better or worse) if they didn't have to face and be challenged by these boxes that try to tell them what they are. Does that mean that women who are "untraditional" should be treated like men? No. Treated like women? No. That's the entire thing Judith is arguing against. People should be treated as people, without there being expectations from society on how they should behave and how they should be interacted with.

[@joaodecarvalho7012]

But she denies the biological gender. She has no option other than admit that the shape of the body is biological, but she denies the shape of the mind. In biology there is no such diference, and the mind is made by the brain, witch is part of the body. To separate these things is religious and magic thinking (and these post-modernists are in fact a new religion). And even if there is a social component in the sexual development of a person, it should be noted that the social is biological. We, as the chimps, are social creatures. Butler thinks she can go against science. She has no idea what she's dealing with. It is the most successful intelectual endeavor in history.

[@nihilistic9927]

@@joaodecarvalho7012 "Is there a way to link the question of materiality of the body to the performativity of gender? And how does the category of 'sex' figure within such a relationship? Consider first that sexual difference is often invoked as an issue of material differences. Sexual difference, however, is never simply a function of material differences which are not in some way both marked and formed by discursive practices. Further, to claim that sexual differences are indissociable from discursive demarcations is not the same as claiming that discourse causes sexual difference. ...In other word, 'sex' is an ideal construct which is forcibly materialized through time. It is not a simple fact or static condition of the body, but a process whereby regulatory norms materialize 'sex' and achieve this materialization through forcible reiteration of those norms" (Butler, Judith. Bodies that Matter: On the Discursive Limits of "sex") You are completely missing the nuance of Butler's argument on the "biological gender." 1. she would not use this particular language. 2. for Butler, the discourse that we use regarding gender and "biological sex" are inherently political and are contingent on an abstration of those fields and structualist approaches to divide binaries and draw lines in things that are rather blurred. In contemporary genetics and biology, you may see sex describe in mutliple tiers from the gametes and chromosomes, which come beyond assortions of XY and XX, which may not always code for the "male" or "female" sex we use in discourse. As laughable as a claim that postmodernism is "a new religion" despite the fragility of this catergorization, its decentralization and its antithetical nature to assumptions termed religious, you also make a claim about butler that I am not really sure Butler makes. From my awareness, Butler is a materialist, not the dualist you framed her as. Butler's focus has always been the discursive. But what's odd about your second to last statement is that it actually denies the space of the discursive elements of human reality, as if we are not simply biological entities but also social entites that navigate in the social setting. This, I find, is dismissive of psychology and even biology. I find it hilarious that one can even make the case that there exist not discursive self, or that there is no social being. It is very redunctionist to presume that there exist no social aspect (granted I respect the nihilists) of human interaction. Butler doesn't seperate biology and discourse. Rather her focus is how discourse interacts with biology and how it constructs the way we perceive, understand and use biology.

[@joaodecarvalho7012]

@@nihilistic9927 Yes, like the chimps, we are a social species. What I am saying is that males and females exist all over the animal kingdom, and they have different shapes, behaviors and preferences. Any account of sexuality must consider the psychological differences between men and women, but I think Butler just ignores the research in this area. She is very arrogant.

[@nihilistic9927]

@@joaodecarvalho7012 Your statement that male and females exist all over the anime kingdom is mostly true on "male and females" existing (but it ignored the well studied diversity in how sex as a concept can be understood differenly or exist differently in different species). I'm not sure what you mean by psychological differences between men and women in regards to sexuality. It would be true that Butler would reject biological determinism (though that is still a contentious debate with some consensus in teh scientific community). Aside from your detraction from your earlier claims, and a desire to root Butler as unscientific (which is admitably debated), you also don't really get what Butler's focus even is.

[@janedoe3648]

It is good for men to be shown how to be a man and women to be shown how to be a woman, as they grow up, because men and women are biologically and hormonally signficantly different. And there are brain differences. This is what will make people most peace with themselves. People also get "oppressed" especially nowadays by people expecting them, especially as they grow up, to do things that are not natural/traditional to and traditionally liked by their gender. I have very much experienced this. Your point to be sensitive to people who are not as traditional/don't fit the norms as much can be taken without trying to erase or redefine man and woman. There is a range and fluctuation in masculinity in men and femininity in women. But fundamentally, you cannot change male nature in men or female nature in women, because it's on a physiological, brain, and hormonal level. Giving people synthentic hormones their body (according to sex) was never meant to have, will not change their fundamental hormonal condition. It will wreak havoc due to the side effects, such as irritability, anger, depression induced by synthetic testosterone etc. I.e. If you are a tomboy, you are still a woman..it is just ridiculous and it's a lie to separate gender/sex (which IS biological) from how one "presents" because it is biological and unchangeable. How one "presents" is superficial. E.g. Judith presents in a tomboyish fahsion but these are just in superficial ways, like dress, and using a lower more masculine fakeish voice lol. But on the deeper level, she is a woman, through and through. Major significant differences between men and women that affect their behavior in deep ways remain despite superficial virtually meaningless presentation/ways of dressing etc. See Prof. Jordan Peterson's videos presenting the psychology research on this subject which he says is robust, clear, long-standing, and now being suppressed by these radical made up gender ideologies which aee A LIE. Sex/gender, which is male or female which you are born as, is unchangeable REALITY. Gender ideology is the social construct. See the documentary Dysconnected, it is EXCELLENT.

[@sammoe1292]

She is a great example of why I now read such an extensive terrain of literature so that she can’t harass me with her performative morals and make me think I’m a charlatan for simply being a man. I wish she would have been a guest on the black Philip podcast hahaha