Is Down Air Kirby's Best/Worst Move? In Depth Look and Analysis

Kirby's Down Air is a hot topic in Smash Ultimate. PJiggle's video about every character's worst move caused a lot of confusion in the smash world, causing arguments to erupt every time it gets brought up. I wanted to give my thoughts on the subject! I initially just wanted this to be like a 4-5 minute opinion piece, but I just keep adding more and more stuff on
Videos/Resources Used:
Down Air Frame Advantage:
docs.google.co...
Kirby Discord: discordapp.com...
• Every Character's WORS... Every Character's WORST Move (Pjiggles)
• Autocancel Dair Confir... Autocancel Dair Confirms (SK)
• Kirby's Combos & Confi... Kirby's Combos without Dair (SK)
• The BEST MOVE for EVER... Best Move Every Character (JoeK)
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Outro Song: Nitro Fun & Hyper Potions - Checkpoint
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#supersmashbros #smashultimate

[@Juggleboy]

I didn't mean for the video to end up being 15 minutes, but it just sort of kept on going. My bad. Let me know your guesses for the new DLC Character announcement tomorrow!

[@nnemmesiss]

Don't worry about it, I could listen to you for hours lol

[@harrym3673]

Steve

[@cereal7591]

Oooh, the next DLC character, I'm guessing... Actually you know what? I'm more interested in potential Kirby buffs. I don't want to get my hopes up, but c'mon! Mah boi Kirby deserves them and is about damn time!

[@gearsoftime9375]

Waluigi

[@benplum5278]

It’s definitely not going to happen, but I really want either waddle dee or hollow knight

[@equinox-XVI]

That moment you realise Ganon's dair is faster than Kirby's 0_0

[@Liam-ly1rr]

Wait.. ganon dair comes out faster than kirby's?

[@Account-1536]

Yeah it’s frame 16 לאם ליבוביץ

[@penzfgc8009]

lmaooooo

[@karlcossaboon7072]

@@Liam-ly1rr watch the video He showed every single aerial that is slower than kirby's dair Notice how there is only about 15 of them Considering that there is about 400 aerials in the game since each character has 5 aerials... Thats REALLY slow

[@GSFigure]

Lmaooooo -@@penzfgc8009 2020

[@djdrizzy9139]

Funny how a new patch is coming soon, so this video could become outdated...

[@Juggleboy]

Might as well get it out now before it's completely unusable!

[@isaacsmith3998]

Tbh, I don't think they'll improve this move. It's very viable at elite smash level, which is what they balance for.

[@Luigiofthegods]

#BringBackFrameCanceling

[@16ktsgamma]

Kirby Down Air buff here we come.

[@juanalvarado4723]

Hopefully

[@kirbypwnedyou]

This covered basically every point I could think of. Extremely good analysis! (and thanks for the shoutout!) I really like how you approach this kind of discussion.

[@Heebie-Deebies]

This was a much better explanation than "dair sucks."

[@MidnightUmbra]

"When you first pick up the controller, and you discover Kirbys Down-B. At first it seems BUSTED" Damn why do you gotta call me out like that, my first main was Kirby and all I used was Down-B 😭

[@Juggleboy]

Hey, I was in the same boat. No shame!

[@hodihoden]

everybody was once in this boat

[@karlcossaboon7072]

Bro If u are a kirby fan who hasn't ever played smash bros And u pick up smash bros And dont start doing this ( and play better than doing that )... Then you are the next MKLeo Literally everyone did this lmao I had 1000 battles in smash 4 and still did this I diddnt know any moves that weren't specials existed that entire time... Everyone did this

[@MidnightUmbra]

@@karlcossaboon7072 bro If you come across a comment thats clearly a joke And dont realize its a joke Then youre the next Beavis and Butthead Theres no reason to be rude

[@MidnightUmbra]

I know everyone did this that was literally the whole point of the quote

[@hobbes9631]

So you could say DAIR wouldn’t FAIR well in competitive play

[@lolthecapes8761]

Leave this chat

[@local_catgirl3344]

it's a bit of a DAIR-ING move if you ask me

[@temp1326]

ok Mario

[@danieldavid3766]

Yeah, and if you DAIR to use NAIR, then it would FAIR much better since the move's frame data is more BAIR-able. I'm not sorry

[@hobbes9631]

I like this guy

[@yalebass]

so. What I’m forming is that hammer is clearly worse with all of this laid out LOL

[@dddmemaybe]

hammer is bad. but fully charged it kills like a Hero critical f-smash lol. So it barely makes up for being useless by killing at ~55% against standard weight. Fully charged it has 8 invulnerable frames and 8 super armor frames as well during the release of the move.

[@xxmegagallade47]

dddmemaybe i know I’m knit picking but it’s only 6 frames of super armor

[@dddmemaybe]

@@xxmegagallade47 oh I thought I read 8

[@HopperDragon]

@@dddmemaybe It's not comparable to a hero crit fsmash when you have to stand around charging it for an hour before letting it rip. Nobody in the world above the age of 6 has ever been hit by a fully charged hammer flip.

[@dddmemaybe]

@@HopperDragon yea but what if he waits lol. It's bad, but it does its bad job well at obliterating you if the cosmos allow it.

[@westleyblakeslee3205]

and then, 6 months later, you made a combo video entirely about dair

[@miniyodadude6604]

Kirby dair is great in the sense that yoshi dair is good, its very good at reading players who are setting up landing aerials. So if you read an ike approaching with fh because he wants to land with nair, you do a preemptive fh dair and now you have a big punish

[@miniyodadude6604]

But once again fair or bair is a better option

[@harryvpn1462]

When pjiggles said that kirby's worst move is Dair I was like "wait what the fuck"

[@Joshua2750]

I feel educated. I shall use this knowledge to my advantage!

[@MrShifty1]

I mean, I’m still gonna use it

[@atiedebee1020]

You forgot to add that the hitadvantage is inconsistent. Depending on when you land you can lose / gain around 2 frames if advantage. Atleast that's what I heard in the Kirby cord. A lot of the combos can also be escaped by SDI'ing up. Sorry for misinforming some people about the f smash thing it always worked for me so I thought it was true. Anyways great video xd

[@rokizu]

i just use it because i like the sound kirby makes when you do it

[@alexiwright3656]

Great video, I'll be sure to send people here instead of explaining this problem myself from now on.

[@randomfriskau]

Kirb dair ride is now a thing puyo

[@ToxicPea]

Me before watching this video: I like using down air. Me after watching this video: I don't like using down air. Just give Kirby actual moves from his series pls.

[@WesleyFiles]

The air comes out of the narrow part of the Gust Bellows.

[@Juggleboy]

You're right. i didnt even notice!

[@SuperCheezpuff]

So no one from the discord justified their reason? They just said dair’s bad huh

[@chesslo2158]

SuperCheezpuff They did it’s just that you don’t see their explanation in some of the replies to them. In the meantime here’s a link that will link you to everything useful about Kirby. They ain’t trolling. discordapp.com/invite/pNdppAu

[@nintendope8837]

rup the mewtwo who got hit by down b because of tail hitbox

[@atiedebee1020]

Holy shit my comment is in there Also I changed my mind about dair since I joined the Kirby cord

[@DarkSoul979]

Haven't seen video, but it's literally impossible to even imagine kirby's down air being "good", it's been getting nerfed from game to game, now in a really deppressing state, where you're guaranteed punished if you got shielded, you can't confirm to footstool offstage, knockback offstage is sooo low even at mid-high %s, only true combos with stuff frame 4 or less (mostly ftilt, utilt), getting the autocancel confirm into dsmash/usmash is hella hard to land and prob getting sword'd

[@DarkSoul979]

now that i have seen it, yes i agree with your points, just good to gimp bad-recovery characters, in ground pretty outclassed by other stuff like weak nair

[@hi-uz6qe]

Btw I wouldn’t mention Lucas dair because honestly it’s for a different purpose- Comboing It leads into combos, drags offstage, and for early kill Lucas actually does have a good spike move, his bair.

[@jessiem.8301]

Awwwwwwww..... I totally was not expecting my name to show up at the end of the video..🥺😥😥 thanks juggleboy! Sincerely, One of your biggest fans.. -Jessie M. aka. Spartantroop aka. Umaro . . . Ps. Kirby's crocs at the end of the video.. 😁👌🏽

[@raleo7466]

Can we just talk about the landing hitbox leading to funny shenanigans? That hitbox can lead to a (not true) grab follow-up or ftilt. I still think that is useful in a mindgame, to challenge your oponento to be above you and then start juggling or to make them wait in the ground and going for a safer on shield option for the grab punish. I still think is one of the best of Kirby moves but for a casual player that I am, up-b is unfairly broken if used well xD

[@mauricegaming353]

Ness, and Ice climbers my favorite heavys.

[@mauricegaming353]

I know he said on average! OK!

[@blopblep1179]

I absolutely appreciated the longer video, and I absolutely wanted more in-depth analysis and I will die on that hill. Thank you SO much for this video! I will have to check out SK's videos as well. I would have liked a list of matchups that Kirby can and can't edgeguard easily with Dair, but I guess I'll have to find that out in the field! I have 6.2 million GSP with Kirby, and you are the reason why.

[@BlueKazuki]

Compared to nair you can cross up shields with dair since nair is over if you block the first hit. 7:20 ofc you're just gonna get punished if you land right in-front of their shield. They probably made it slow because you can dair like 4 times offstage w/o landing.

[@me1sgei871]

I remember my friend spamming Yoshi's Down-B when starting the game lol

[@cyndawu1940]

Kirby dair is very good on vertical wall stages such as Kalos Stadium and Yoshi Story. It can get easy early kills with dair that works even at high tier characters such as Mario, Greninja, Inkling and Chrom as long as they are directly below you. But other than that, dair is very unsafe and not worth it to use on stage.

[@sweetmamaschili4051]

Wait, are people thinking that Kirby is some sort of drill machine that combos out of dair? Literally it covers lower recoveries in order to gimp. I don’t main Kirby but he’s a fun meme, but come the fuck on internet...

[@SeigneurEboueur]

maybe its bad for comp but i love it

[@OgerponIsACutie]

As a Kirby main, I admit some points of this video is correct but I feel like some are wrong 1. The reason the spike hitbox is so weak is because Kirby can use his multiple jumps to keep spiking his opponent until they’re low enough that their up special won’t reach the edge. But I admit stone is better against recoveries that has a hitbox (k. rool). Plus against certain recoveries like bowser, you can trade fair for up special to gimp them very easily. Also if nair doesn’t kill, then your pretty much giving your opponent a chance to not only get back on stage but to also edge guard you 2. I feel like landing fast fall fair isn’t reliable cause not only you have to be right by your opponent by also you have to do a very specific timing. In some situations this combo can be good but I think that it is pretty inconsistent trying to land it in the neutral. But dair has a long lasting hitbox and isn’t as hard to land in the neutral. Pretty good video and I admit it’s not safe on shield and comes out pretty slow but as a Kirby main, I think it’s kirbys best Ariel

[@EmeraldBlade98]

Kirby’s dair was one of the best moves in Wii U, in Ultimate it’s alright but not nearly as good. Kirby is really bad and the move doesn’t send them as far as they used to go in Wii U and sometimes it feels like opponents can just hit you while you’re using it off stage, however for combos it’s pretty alright

[@egcart4957]

Amazing combo starter, and decent edge guard, lets move on to why we hate side B with a burning passion

[@karlcossaboon7072]

Hol up so I'm at around 5:30 in...but there's 1 frame breaks Snakes grenade comes out frame 1 So...does that mean Snake can pull a grenade WHILE BEING DAIR'd Jesus this character is a mess Edit: nevermind I forgot hitstun exists dont roast me lmao

[@Juggleboy]

No, snake would still be in hitstun during the move if he was hit by it. It's more applicable against an opposing hitbox on a recovery. 1/3 of the time kirby will straight out lose

[@karlcossaboon7072]

@@Juggleboy ...I forgot hitstun existed when I wrote that lmao I'm big dumb Thanks for the reply tho

[@pulim-v]

While it isn't directly buffed, I think 8.0 helped dair a bit with the Dair Ride

[@domotron3598]

Good lord 15 mins for one mive

[@sealy_haveityourwaybku]

Down air is best when you go behind your opponent so he can’t grab you from it, all Kirby mains take this info in.

[@izzyDbuzzin]

This. Dair behind the opponent. Be precise so if they shield you can be prepared for an uptilt.

[@sealy_haveityourwaybku]

izzyDbuzzin yeah but the FPS to uptilt aren’t quick enough to prevent your opponents attack in competitive smash, going behind your opponent during a down air gives Kirby enough time to do the uptilt safety without opponents countering.

[@chesslo2158]

》Sealy - HaveItYourWayBku Down air is -12 on shield and has 18 frames of startup, which is pretty unsafe when you compare other down airs in this game.

[@Benjawin6671]

Thanks for the video. Dair is really not a good move I never understood why people online often go for it

[@startijer]

Hey, Kirby main here. The down air is a good move, but there are better, for example; Up special. See, it’s a good spike and damage racket, but there are better ones.

[@LordBeau]

Kirby’s dair might be one of his worst moves but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t lead to some hilarious moments and dumb kills.

[@ripefardsac]

I just watched a 15 minute video about Kirby's dair

[@calakipmar5351]

in other words, Nair is the new Dair

[@des4592]

I'm a Kirby player and I agree with you but dair is actually useful

[@AlloyAmi]

it really is, great combo starter with up tilt repeat and smash attack and also a kill set up at high % that most people fall for dair smash attack and is easy to use over and over offstage to kill

[@des4592]

@@AlloyAmi also can keep opponents stuck in shield and can chain with up tilt

[@stealthyshadow567]

I don’t think kirbys dair is a great move, but you cannot say it’s better than his down-b or side-b, watching top level Kirby, like Ron in Japan he uses it a lot in covering ledge because of how active it is. It is also a lot safer for ledge than nair because the hit boxes are below Kirby, meaning it’s less commitment and you can get out of range of a counterattack easier. Honestly up air is probably worse because it has no combo potential, very little knockback. Kirbys dair probably does a better job at being a dair than his up air is at being an up air.

[@AceDice]

Very little knockback ???

[@andrewguy3717]

As a Kirby main, his dair is one of his best moves if not the best. When edgeguarding it isn’t super powerful but it stays out for a long time and does it’s job at mid- high percents. It also is an amazing combo tool that lets me get combos up to 60% sometimes and dair to up tilt can get an inhale

[@andrewguy3717]

Also hammer flip is bad, but it can catch people off guard when you ledge trap with it

[@Rextingz]

Not to mention you can just fall out of it

[@jakeystarsuper]

I actually like the down air. But it should be able to spike better. Make it like Luigi down air

[@xandert8527]

i consider dair to be kirby's best combo move. not THE best move. Reasoning: combos into forward grab, which, depending on character, can link into ANOTHER DAIR, down tilt, which can be used as a trop confirm to follow up with forwaed grab forward air, and that's it. if you want to cross up, well it's useful to mindgame your opponent to grab where they are immediately facing. other than that, please use back air. it's the fastest and you can still block string other moves, like up tilt.

[@pirc_]

Nice explanation bro

[@r3tro543]

In conclusion: Kirby neutral b when against jigglypuff is the worst

[@leaffinite2001]

I made one comment on pjiggles vid saying i thought the discord was trolling, and one of them replied with a whole fucking essay on why it sucked. Like, bro. I know it sucks, you coulda just said "nah bro we were serious." Still not convinced its his worst move, but... ill admit im not a kirb main, so.

[@chesslo2158]

Leaf Finite There were numerous people that thought the discord was trolling, and people still thought down air was good. Juggleboy wanted to give a proper explanation on why it was overrated.

[@leaffinite2001]

@@chesslo2158 i was talking about the guy from the discord through out my entire comment. I enjoyed this video, and wasnt making any statement as to its state of necessity. Sorry it wasnt obvious

[@liquids_death2787]

My eyes are open.... Not a Kirby main but I knew that move was lack luster but not the best🤣🤣🤣

[@rainwilson4036]

You are pjiggles son, lol also Kirby is my guy

[@mac9506]

Both

[@tommysauce2655]

Normaly I just use dair as a combo starter but I still think its a good move

[@turboj7161]

Down b is pretty good in EU because nobody plays kirby and no one expects it to be coming out and gets you some REALLY dirty kills.

[@chesslo2158]

TurboJ Jesuischoq did use it against Mr.R’s Snake The latter never felt the same

[@chopperbrosadvance9760]

Fthrow>dair Dair>utilt Grab> go until soneone breaks out

[@ninjapacman26]

Kirby's dair is not worth talking about outside of Smash 64.

[@thefatchincat7017]

Yeah it sucks, but how is hammer flip better

[@loading...948]

I mean, at least it looks satisfying?😁

[@lazykirby57]

Ok. Im just gonna say this 1. Look at hammers range 2. Count how many characters have a projectile attack/outranges hammer. Thats why people think D-air is better.

[@tatejensen381]

That tier list was super outdated...

[@sircharles1808]

3:17 umm, is that an up to date tier list? it looks... wierd

[@chesslo2158]

Nah, probably not. Looks like it’s a Spring 2019 tier list to me. characters like Ike, Ganon, Corrin, Dedede, Mewtwo, and Snake have gotten worse in the metagame while others like Samus, Game and Watch, Bowser Jr., K. Rool, Plant, and Kirby have improved overtime.

[@rnssquad4689]

Im sorry for the people who like hammer flip but your not hitting that before dair

[@monoko1234]

Kirby's Dair... It got nerfed now, you can't tell it's good. Compared to Smash 64.

[@ezrasteiny]

Ate we going to talk about the tier list at 3:17? That’s just ass.

[@SaltedMista]

Oml wtf I never noticed

[@Slipdash]

I thought it was just a little below average lol

[@sealy_haveityourwaybku]

Kirby sucks he’ll never be as good as he was in brawl, he has too much beginning and end lag.

[@Account-1536]

》Sealy - HaveItYourWayBku Kirby was better in 64 than in brawl.

[@chefdunsparce4254]

I miss down air down smash in smash 4 buff kirbo *smash 64 down air returns*

[@chesslo2158]

Nintendo Expert 42 Down air in smash 4 wasn’t much better

[@chefdunsparce4254]

@@chesslo2158 well still

[@nafes0]

Who did 3:19 tier list? Little Mac Is the worst character in the game

[@chesslo2158]

Names are hard ok don't blame me Reddit i guess

[@turkeybeef6269]

18 frames, all you need to do is time it, it combos good if you know how.

[@analyticalj8687]

Lugia 06 I mean, dair can be outspaced by any disjoint and kirby has better options in both combo potential and frame data

[@jojo6783f]

It is slower and combos worse than other aerials.

[@muraniko8840]

Hammer exists Stone exists This is a silly argument

[@jaocb178]

Ok but 3rd worst isn't that far from worst

[@chesslo2158]

Stone at least functions at its job on edgeguarding linear recoveries/landing

[@brbw]

Mura Niko stone is better than down air

[@lazykirby57]

Nah. Stone>D-air if you ask me. Stone is good when someone is trying to recover, or do an air combo. If it had invincibility while transforming? Instant mid tier

[@chesslo2158]

LazyKirby57 even if it had invincibility he’d still remain more or less the same because the startup

[@iwanttodie.7613]

Lol

[@risygnedgames4757]

Oh, look, it's me! I also made the DAir advantage doc, and to briefly explain the "opponent's position matters" thing: The numbers listed in the Landing DAir portion of the doc are the absolute minimum advantage we can get. However, if the opponent lands, we get some extra, inconsistent advantage. Take Bowser for example: if he didn't land, he'd only be +1. Although he is forced to land, hitting the final hit before the landing hit and/or the Bowser SDIing down means our minimum advantage when he lands is +3, 1 frame off UTilt. Some characters are never forced to land and that number will always apply. As a side note, the way the multi-hits send certain characters can make the landing hit just... miss? One of the worst offenders in my experience is Captain Falcon. It has to do with their hurt animation and hurtbox shifting, but it's overall just kind of weird that this is another problem on top of its many others.

[@ROYEWITHNOE]

No subs i guess I’ll sub :)

[@jacksurine2530]

Dair is too slow (frame 18 start up). If it were faster, it'd be one of his best moves. It's great for catching certain recoveries, and randomly clanks with things that most people don't expect it to. Nair may be a better general edge guard tool, but Dair can be used to drag he opponent down for an early stock by stringing multiple Dairs together (this is pretty character specific though). It's "combos" most of which aren't technically true, but some of them are pretty close to true, and they are easier to perform than comboing off of his other aerials (at least for me.) Overall, It's far from his best move, but I also think it's significantly more useful than his worst (probably hammer flip). It seems more of a middle of the pack move that has just solidified itself as a part of Kirby's identity in my opinion, so people form strong opinions about it. And for those that are curious, Kirby's best move is 100% squish kick (that's the official name of his down tilt) The move is dope.

[@Nathan-yu7cu]

Also if the spike killed earlier than 99999%

[@Endershock1678]

Oh no contest it's squish kick.

[@cag_0k642]

Jack Surine That is the most adorable name for a move ever

[@chukwuemekaacho9507]

One time stringed a bunch of Dairs together but got too greedy and went for on last Dair then I fast fell and then I hear game look who won and it showed little Mac 55%

[@kwayke9]

Make it frame 9 and Kirby jumps 15 spots

[@staticchimera44]

[11:30] Ah, I remember atiedebee. After the video, they came over to the Kirby discord to speak their mind, but then we started lecturing them on the uselessness of dair and they soon became one of us. Glad to see that some of us are open to arguments, unlike some people that just don't listen to other points.

[@Juggleboy]

Wow, truly a feel good story for the ages! I felt kinda bad using them as an example. But they had 55 likes on their comment, so that meant that a lot of people also feel the same way

[@staticchimera44]

@@Juggleboy That's understandable. To be fair, I'm surprised so many people agreed with the whole dair > fsmash thing anyway.

[@TrueLimeyhoney]

I was skeptical after that video, but man this video was so well put together that it countered any argument I could have, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I guess I agree now.

[@RoboSparkle]

@@staticchimera44 dair > fsmash works really well against the CPUs in World of Light. Depends on your frame of reference I guess?

[@MrShifty1]

@RoboSparkle Hammer Flip works in World Of Light

[@PascalTyranitar]

Give it less startup (maybe around frame 15), make the spike stronger (spike hitbox deals more damage with no compensation on knockback), and give it less landing lag (12 or 13 frames). There will probably be a lot of people claiming this is unnecessary, but I do very much agree that this is quite possibly the most overrated move in Ultimate. It's definitely not as bad as hammer in my opinion, but it’s still a definite contender for his worst move.

[@djdrizzy9139]

Make it frame 11-12, then add everything else you said. Imagine the combos man, we'll have real foot loops!

[@chesslo2158]

Frame 11 would still be mediocre for aerials, make it frame 8

[@djdrizzy9139]

@@chesslo2158 Not really in this case. Frame 11 isn't that slow for this kind of move; it'll be a lingering hit box that will lead into massive pillar combos onstage and excellent pressure offstage. Frame 11 is pretty fair all things considered. (But if course I'd like it to be even faster than that, but remember 64 dair?)

[@chesslo2158]

DJ Drizzy remember the spike doesn’t kill until 120%+ Then again it might mess with some combos, but I feel like a stronger spike might have more potential offstage

[@lazykirby57]

@@chesslo2158 by kill do you mean completely KO? If so then you really don't need an instant kill. Characters like mario or marth when hit with kirbys d-air at around 70 can be sent low enough so their up b doesn't make it. Also because of Kirby's multiple jumps, you can keep hitting them until they can't recover. It works for me.

[@curtleyhughes3175]

Can I argue that killing someone with it his a hard disrespect

[@Astraaaaaaaaaaa]

Winning with kirby when they use a good character is disrespectful

[@lazykirby57]

@@Astraaaaaaaaaaa I always wonder how top tier mains feel, knowing they lost to the worst character

[@chesslo2158]

LazyKirby57 If someone thinks Kirby is the worst then I’ll be baffled, he still needs buffs but there’s literally no way he’s absolutely the worst

[@lazykirby57]

@@chesslo2158 Almost every tier list video has. Him in dead last, if not, second to last place. I wouldn't be surprised if he was considered to be the worst character by the fandom. As bad as mac is in the air, his ground game makes up for that. Kirbys pros just barley balance out his cons, if at all.

[@chesslo2158]

LazyKirby57 Mr. R and Glutonny put him in C tier and Dabuz puts him as the second-best bottom tier in their most recent tier lists, ESAM puts him as the best 4.0 character. I’d have to disagree by a fair amount since his results are more impressive than some of the low and even mid tier characters (Brawler, Swordfighter, Dorf, Puff, K. Rool). He’s one of the only characters in the game that can be used to legitimately fight Palutena, which is why Komota beat Jumpsteady (the latter is probably the best Palu player in SoCal). Aside from her, he can also do well against Fox, Lucina, space animals, Ness, and Wii Fit. His crouch is surprisingly strong and his defensive/ground game is equally as strong because of his fast frame data and moves that chain fluently. As for Mac his ground game is excellent as well but having a nonexistent air game means his flaws will overpower him. Even his ground game has issues (short range and vulnerable to combos due to his fast falling speed). Ganon has an air game. Corrin has one. K. Rool as well. Every character except Mac can at least function in one way or more in the air. I’m quite surprised that people don’t put Dorf as the worst tbh.

[@karlcossaboon7072]

Dang bro U had me at Frame 18 I thought it was a LOT faster than that I haven't touched kirby or played against a kirby for a while But man hes even worse than I thought he was...

[@chesslo2158]

Karl Cossaboon Just because a move is not useful doesn’t necessarily mean a character is bad Would I say Squirtle’s up smash makes him a bad character?

[@majic144p]

I mean, Kirby isn't..un-viable but, he sure as hell isn't top tier

[@chesslo2158]

Mina L exactly Kirby might need buffs but that’s going too far if one would say he’s worse than his smash 4 counterpart

[@NZsaltz]

@@chesslo2158 Yeah, but basically almost everyone was buffed. Compared to other characters, he's bad.

[@chesslo2158]

Noah Saltz Which is not the case. His buffs in 6.0.0 were pretty huge, which in turn, greatly improved his results. Yeah they’re not great, but those are more impressive than some of the low and even mid tier characters. Literally everything (except down air and maybe his grabs) he had in Smash 4, he got better at. Fsmash has more range and KO power. Inhale, neutral/up air are hella lot more useful. His MU spread is better. His playerbase isn’t as reliant on a few specific players. His results are superior. Some characters “improved” haven’t gotten the degree of success Kirby has gotten. Ganon, Swordfighter, Brawler - gimme one notable result they had last month.

[@ItsPrinceMarcus]

This is my favorite smash ultimate video. Super Liked and Favorited!

[@RaiGuyyy]

7:09 I don’t know why but your voice sounded so feminine when you said using it on stage

[@ssbuaaron3077]

Cracking up lmao

[@squatcopper]

He fronted his tongue too much and created a "gay S" for a second lol. Happens to the best of us

[@Juggleboy]

​@@squatcopper On a usual recording session I get like 5 of these. I edit most of them out where I can, but some slip through. I have no idea why it happens so much

[@chlo_z7566]

Kirby's dair is my favorite casual move since the people I play against cannot handle multi-hits that well and it always follows up with u-tilt

[@Nathan-yu7cu]

2:15 Up-B spammers goes into the step between the two imo

[@skeletonskeleton9010]

Same with Game and Watch

[@Meuhy]

@@skeletonskeleton9010 Game and watch up b is one of his best option out of shield and can get you out of disadvantage for free, so it's common to see people using it over and over even at high level play.

[@skeletonskeleton9010]

@@Meuhy I know, I am one.

[@Meuhy]

@@skeletonskeleton9010 I was just trying to say that it's not the same with game and watch. Up b is not an intermediate level bad habit/gimmick that only works on people that don't know how to deal with it, it's just good.

[@karlcossaboon7072]

@@skeletonskeleton9010 no that's like 4 steps later Cuz that move is frame 3 out of sheild That's the quickest out of sheild option in the game... Its MAD good

[@cre6144]

I think a big reason why people tend to gravitate towards kirby's dair is because it's a multihit. Multihits tend to be overused for whatever reason by newer players (ness fair, yoshi dair, etc) even when they really aren't that useful compared to the character's other options.

[@entity-hp3xw]

I guess it just feels satisfying. It tricks you into thinking you do more damage or have the opponent under your control. Even now I love hearing the sound of rapid slappery.

[@krillissue]

*RAPID SLAPPERY*

[@cre6144]

@@dubiouslittlecreature908 true, but the characters definitely have better options than those in most circumstances

[@anthonywashington2469]

But Ness fair is one is his best moves...

[@marcogarcia7944]

Cre ness fair is pretty good so is yoshi,s dair the reason kirby dair is bad is because of the startup lag

[@DavidKyokushin]

Full Kirby move tierlist coming soon?

[@Juggleboy]

I actually put one out back in july! The buffs to kirby in 6.0 changed it a little bit, basically bumping up nair a tier or two, and up air one tier up, jab up a few spots, and inhale up a few spots. Those moves also indirectly caused down air to probably get bumped down a little bit.

[@DavidKyokushin]

@@Juggleboy Ooh interesting, imma check it out thanks!

[@noodletribunal9793]

that dair comes out after a short cinematic intro

[@szmash3726]

Um hello juggle boy.i just want to say that watching ur kirby videos... brought me from 127,000 GSP all the way to 1,012,345 GSP.thanks a lot😁😋😀🤣

[@axis4813]

Me, comboing dair into dair: *This is the epitome of skill*

[@doobi6343]

That comment arguing about samus jab is also incorrect lol Anyone who doesn’t play samus in this game always says jab is the worst move in her kit because it doesn’t combo, but the thing is, jab1 has less lag on it than a majority of other jabs in the game. This makes it a remarkable interruption tool that lets her poke and run, or poke and see how the opponent reacts much better than anyone else’s jab. If they try to jab you in between, you can jump over to cross up bair, or you can run back and pivot grab. Since it’s her quickest grounded option, it’s crucial for her. Homing missiles on the other hand sucks ass. Everything PJiggles mentioned applies. Sure they “apply pressure” but most projectiles are intended to make the opponent move away or combo into other things. Homing missiles, with their terrible turning radius, high lag, and the ability to swat them out of the sky for free, don’t really make the opponent move. Hell most of the time they don’t need to move out of the way to avoid them, the missiles just miss them anyway lmao. Homing missiles have 3 uses really, for some slight cover when recovering, and for covering certain platforms at certain angles, and for baiting out reflectors before shooting a charge shot at the reflected missile to blow through it because they’re that weak. That’s about it. Jab legit has more usability. However, in SOME matchups homing missiles are kind of useful

[@c_weir753]

I completely agree I use jab way more than homing missile. And there is no sound argument for jab 1 being bad maybe jab 2

[@petery6432]

@@c_weir753 Arguing that jab 2 is her worst move makes perfect sense because multi-jab was Sheik's worst move and jab 3 was Ryu, Ken, and Terry's worst move.

[@LuisKar_01]

Even Mii swordfighter's dair is better. Comes about 4 frames faster, stays out for 20 frames, is bigger and I believe has more hitlag making it more useful to edge guard. All of that for only 4 more frames of ending lag

[@rensaito9009]

Yeah but who uses swordfighter ;)

[@monoko1234]

@@rensaito9009 Someone that trying to main over 10 character. (me) applies to any other Miis. (still me)

[@rensaito9009]

@@monoko1234 rip

[@rensaito9009]

@@monoko1234 try to main top/high mid tiers bro, like luigi peach or fun characters like mario

[@monoko1234]

@@rensaito9009 Some of my mains are Yoshi, PKMN Trainer and Bowser. So I already did it.

[@Arknio]

I'm glad you made this video. Captured my feelings for the move perfectly. I understand that people in Kirbycord were trying to fight the misinfo but it felt like it made it worse when only the bad points are mentioned. Good stuff.

[@RoboSparkle]

Dair isn't brilliant. But Kirby's worst move is a tossup between Falcon Punch and Rollout

[@Keeby.]

na falcon punch and warlock punch

[@Simon-hs7ik]

@@Keeby. warlock punch is crazy shield break punish

[@Keeby.]

@@Simon-hs7ik so is kirbys side b

[@Simon-hs7ik]

@@Keeby. kill at 0 vs kill at 15 plus if you have warlock punch you'll never use side B for punish

[@Keeby.]

@@Simon-hs7ik kirbys inhale is literally better then warlock punch if youre trying to argue warlock punch is good you havent played smash comp

[@j.rubach9910]

It might not be Kirby’s best move, but it’s for sure an amazing dair. Most daris don’t combo, and has a way smaller hitbox. The move is also super easy to use off stage, and can be used multiple times (and Kirby can go deep af off stage). For characters with linear recoveries (alot), you can literally cheese people at 0. This is even the case at top level Kirby play, competitive wise.

[@Richadkimchi]

So i get why dair sucks. I dont understand why hammer is better.

[@Richadkimchi]

@Healer Philantrophe woah does it reach below for drop down aerials from ledge?

[@lazykirby57]

@Healer Philantrophe ok but heres this. Legit every character (maybe not Incineroar) has a projectile attack or move that outranges hammer. How the hell are you gonna get it to hit without dumb luck?

[@lasercraft32]

They seriously just need to shave off several frames of startup, or making it way stronger so it makes sense to be that slow. There's NO reason it should be as slow as it is, especially for a lightweight like Kirby.

[@noirlavender6409]

There's a lot of misinformation, negation, and lack of sigh in the smash bros community, for example; a bunch of people think bowser's a bad character, even going as far as mocking m2k for saying he's a high tier, but then leoN switched to bowser and jumped from top 200th to top 20 in the ladder in less than 3 months. And easily 3-0'ing a lot of people (including Leffen), he even takes games from MkLeo easily -because the character is ridiculously strong. And yet people still say bowser is a low tier

[@atomicwiththreeos]

I still think stone is worse as a move Hammer has its uses and a surprising amount of people will get hit by it

[@dddmemaybe]

But vertical recoveries man. In some instances stone is free damage like Bowser using flames at ledge on some characters, but on others it makes them not have a vertical recovery past 100%.

[@atomicwiththreeos]

dddmemaybe Fair point, and I’ve changed my opinion lol