Julia Mossbridge - Consciousness and Spirituality

[@desertshadow6098]

Fantastic thought provoking conversation. We, as a species, are the sum of millions of years of struggle and hardship and we still continue to grow and prosper. I think a lot of that is due to our wonder and a spiritual connection to a force that guides and supersedes the turmoil and conflict that affronts us on that journey. We need to recognize ourselves as the most durable and resilient asset this existence has produced even though we have and will continue to struggle.

[@nyworker]

Beautiful conversation. All of these discussions center around our personal self and personal being.

[@brunoborma]

Heideggerian spoted

[@friendoengus]

@@brunoborma heh heh even without knowing my heidegger

[@brunoborma]

@@friendoengus what do you mean ? You are saying that you agree with the statement, even if you do not know the philosopher ?

[@friendoengus]

nyworker necessarily so, you are suggesting?

[@friendoengus]

@@brunoborma aloha bruno issue of the statement being well-framed, and humorous likewise, my reply (i kinda know my heidegger, enough to not likely refresh it) old guy humor, from my side if it still doesn't add up, it will later btw, i already boiler-plated it, elsewhere in this thread as in, 'sufi spotted!' so, thank you for the meme if your starting comment was not intended to be funny, i sure hope you are not actually afraid of heideggerians

[@Spirit_sunya]

I am happy, it seems like finally we have taken a much better step that moves us closer to truth. Every experience for a human is always from within, however to realise that as a truth we need to cut through every external parameters using our intellect or emotions or love. Finally hearing words like spirituality from Robert gives me bliss waves within because I experience, any being who factually realizes the limited period, energy and information of a human life, will naturally move closer to truth and first step will be turning inward. Hence the term spirituality; which may be myth until we dive deep enough. I am on the path too. Expecting much stronger realization videos. Thanks.

[@Spirit_sunya]

@Greg LeJacques that's true, it's always beyond logic!!

[@johnjohnson1657]

Wow...this was a really great discussion and great ideas and it's appreciated. Kudos.

[@mobiustrip1400]

This is refreshing! Consciousness is fundamental. It cannot observe or describe itself.

[@mobiustrip1400]

@@visancosmin8991 who is "you" Go deeper

[@mobiustrip1400]

@@visancosmin8991 That's not deep enough. You need to Go deeper.

[@friendoengus]

@@mobiustrip1400 hi mobius just kinda curious whereto are you attempting to lead visan?

[@friendoengus]

@@visancosmin8991 hi visan help us out let's keep going you write papers, check you are god, check you are god knowing y'self as god, in never-diminishing nor distracted constancy, and even publicly represent same, check? just checkin' please let us know

[@friendoengus]

@@visancosmin8991 hi visan you are right i do write weird only just realizing that i've been too pushy at this forum in recent days sincere apologies, please be assured i meant no harm a friend of this forum has generously and kindly addressed my overdoing, so i can surely be less edgy, and write what i mean more clearly to clarify, claims of godship are pretty unusual (and i was trying to pull your tail a little about that) without reading your papers, i think i understand fairly well if i'm close in getting what you have been describing, then yes, i basically concur we are god(s), like it or not that is a big concept, a bigger truth, implies a responsibility at a higher fractal than most can imagine, and is nearly forbidden to speak of but, you have addressed this truth there must be others here besides me that appreciate it weird or less so, writing can be improved, by being more straightforward, for example i hope this sample is more intelligible than some previous ones thank you for your contributions

[@masonchase4599]

Reminds me of some of my favorite Taoist/Zen writings, which all say that there is no 'other,' but that the tao (consciousness in this case) is everything, and like she said... Everything is everything

[@samrowbotham8914]

I enjoy Julia's work Consciousness is like the Ocean and we are like fish in the Ocean. Everything, every fish is in Consciousness this is the point that Dr Bernardo Kastrup has hammered home since he burst onto the scene about 10 years ago.

[@johnbaker1712]

Consciousness is fundamental? I would prefer to use the word pristine with a central reality. This stops me going completely senile even when I experience senile moments in my mind. I can still embrace the concept that consciousness is fundamental. For me there is a spiritual dimension to consciousness which helps me have faith in God and a search for the Truth. I yearn to be free and in this yearning I have discovered that seeking the Truth is a process which is setting me free. E.John.B

[@3-dwalkthroughs]

@@visancosmin8991 You might be a small god, but not The God. Don't kid yourself. You have been forced to accept a material body with it's sufferings, and then die. The God, is the controller of all material energy, and is not controlled by it, as you are. You know your thoughts, God knows everyone's thoughts, - thats another difference between you and God. You did not create, nor have destroyed, multiple universes - but God has. Thinking oneself as equal to God in all ways, is said to be the last snare of illusion. You are spirit, and God is spirit, the quality of spirit is one - but the quantity of spirit is different. Thou art That (spirit), but not All That. Get the drift?

[@lindal.7242]

Yes!! Finally. Now swap the word Consciousness with a capital C for the word soul. That gets us closer to Truth.

[@lindal.7242]

@@visancosmin8991 same thing

[@3-dwalkthroughs]

Little c for the individual soul/conscious being, and capital C for the Supreme Soul/God - C is the energetic source of all other souls, who are also conscious and can perceive a greater conscious reality, namely "C".

[@antimaterialworld2717]

very precise word is sanskrit 'ATMA'

[@3-dwalkthroughs]

@@antimaterialworld2717 Yes. Thanks. Little c is atma, capital C is Paramatma.

[@MrModikoe]

don't even know where to start...everything she said, had a way of merging science and philosophy in a way I've never seen done.

[@sgs261]

Robert, an interesting line of questioning (love your videos by the way) for when people have hunches, like Julia states here, would be whether these formed from her research, or whether she came into it with these preconceived ideas/feelings/hopes. Because nothing she says is currently experimentally validated, the fact our own internal biases of whether we think there is x or y seem to be prominent in relavance.

[@MAGT]

All Consciousness from all species, is the same thing. It's just the body and its abilities that are different

[@kfwimmer]

Julia is the best!

[@renubhalla9005]

Informations that enter human consciousness and resides there and directs our attentional energy matters.

[@GrammieK12o6]

"Doing science is my spirituality," I like it.

[@1960taylor]

I think it’s sad

[@chaotickreg7024]

@@1960taylor It's empowering to understand the world. I feel bad for people that demand extra universe.

[@1960taylor]

@@chaotickreg7024 That's nice...good luck

[@chaotickreg7024]

@@1960taylor I hope Jesus comes back and gives you everything you think you deserve

[@1960taylor]

@@chaotickreg7024 He already has.

[@smithgov]

The only thing that was reveled by this woman, is, there are a lot of opinions on big topics that we really know little about. Her view point is a valid as anyone posting on this comment section. Which means, generally it isn't.

[@friendoengus]

ouch! heh heh wish i could argue against the conclusion oh, well ... thanks, robert

[@antimaterialworld2717]

Yes, there is need for unified rigorous method to describe consciousness. And obviously empiric methods failed big time. So i think we should research concept of "atma"

[@smithgov]

@@antimaterialworld2717 totally agree. Unexplained, or unknowable by the human brain doesn't not correlate to truth.

[@smithgov]

@@visancosmin8991 can you point me to the document? Would like to take a look. Thank you

[@antimaterialworld2717]

@@smithgov there is simple method called revelation which solves the problem how can unexplainable be known. It can reveal itself by own will.

[@devinnichols1514]

I'm going to pray for her.. I believe she's on the brink of making the connection between consciousness being linked to our spirit being, and that spirit being originating with our Author/Creator.. God.

[@MrModikoe]

right...her method of explaining is not bound to philosophy/spirituality, but ultimately she's talking about philosophy/spirituality.

[@dongshengdi773]

Universal Collective Consciousness or Cosmic Consciousness coined by Dr. Michio Kaku . Our body is a collection of microbes (microbiome) with a single collective consciousness. Electrons and Quarks self-organize into 81 stable atoms to become self-aware into human consciousness . There is no upper limit on the number of atoms and energy to self-organize and become self-aware, therefore the earth could also be conscious (Gaia Hypothesis)

[@danielbrown97]

Again, it is a nice thought, but if we assume human intelligence is due to the form of the *human body* (and we have every reason to do so), then it's hard to see how electrons and quarks fit into the picture. Why would electrons and quarks conspire to build bodies with four limbs and a head with eyes? Why would particles be attracting towards a bodily form in the first place? No, electrons and quarks play no role in determining the form of a creatures body; bodies are determined by the random course of evolution; randomness accounts for intelligence.

[@danielbrown97]

@Greg LeJacques but what does that mean in practice? How does that affect us today?

[@danielbrown97]

@Greg LeJacques why do i keep encountering self-satisfied wannabes on this channel? how old are you? why are you talking like that? i cannot understand why you choose to present as an authority on the subject when it is clear to everybody that you have no grasp of physics or consciousness or QFT. sorry, but no, this self-indulgent physics-babble is not going to cut it; it is played-out tedium and nobody here will fall for it. furthermore, your statements are plainly wrong lol. i read it: Turing's spot hypothesis is categorically *not* related to any such nonsense you're spouting about cosmic self-organization. he is describing a *macroscopic* model of bio-mechanical phenomena. he describes a hypothetical biological mechanism, one which emerged during the course of evolution under certain climatic and environmental conditions. Turing is not indulging himself in a fantasy about cosmic self-organization lol. also, *fields are not attracting towards the creation of human bodies lol. a causal account of macroscopic phenomena like bodies is found in macroscopic events like evolution* . why would you think fields are attracting towards the creation of human bodies lol.... your 4.20 line is rich -- in fact, if anything, your sanctimonious preaching, your disinterest in conceptual clarity, and your poor definitional concision is what evokes the idea of a lazy stoner. "get informed" is something uninformed shmuck stoners say all the time... but, to be honest, i dont think you are stoned -- i think you are religious -- which is a different sort of laziness, and a different sort of drug; arguably unhealthier. whenever someone -- such as yourself -- uses QFT to assert the existence of an *essential* consciousness, one woven into the fabric of the universe at its genesis and which mysteriously attracts towards a state of embodiment, they do nothing but reveal themselves as religious; because the only person who could believe a theory of consciousness like that *must* also be a person that can believe a creator deliberately created man. the fact is, man was not conceived at the genesis of the universe, and certainly not by a creator; consciousness and man is an accident that emerges in fields much later on, lol. sorry, but that's what being informed beyond narrow religious dogma looks like!

[@stephenmason5682]

We are only what our senses tell us. Without our sight, hearing and touch we are as dead. It matters little what we think, those are thoughts based on memories. Consider being put to ' sleep ' ready for surgery? We are NOT aware of anything?

[@stephenmason5682]

@@visancosmin8991 T shirt slogan?

[@Clancydaenlightened]

What's the difference between a machine a living organism? Whats the difference between intelligence, and "artificial" intelligence if you cannot distinguish between the two?

[@tonyatkinson2210]

The difference is : machines and AI are designed . We have no evidence that organisms and intelligence requires any design

[@johncox2865]

Bravo!

[@jamesruscheinski8602]

could subjective experience / causation have unconscious element? which human consciousness can be aware of?

[@3-dwalkthroughs]

Great conversation, thanks! An interesting bridge between Vedic philosophy and Euclidean Geometry might help clarify some of these concepts and apparent contradictions. The Vesica Piscis, is a mathematical shape formed by the intersection of two disks with the same radius, intersecting in such a way that the center of each disk lies on the perimeter of the other - or more simply, think of the intersected circles of Mastercard logo. If one thinks of the two separate circles as the energies of matter and spirit, before they overlap - when they intersect a third form is defined like a hybrid, having both matter and spirit as it's parents, so to speak. If this hybrid form is taken to represent individual subjective consciousness, constituted and influences by both matter and spirit, many other relationships between spirit, matter, and the individual can be clarified. From the point of view of the subjective consciousness, the larger-in-area than itself "spirit" circle is external to itself, but overlaps or intersects internally, constitutionally, as well. The part of the hybrid individual consciousness that intersects with the larger-in-area material circle/elements, contains aspects of matter in the form of the physical body. The body is created and destroyed, but the spiritual layer or component present in the overlap, remains as is, regardless of the changes the physical body. This is all driven by one's desires. Many other analogies can be envisioned based on this one form, containing multiple forms within it. I liked the Dr's insight, that intuitively, she felt an "intention" of spirit to guide and inspire her. She later observed that it seems that an intention by spirit, would mean a person behind the intention - which in her mind would not compute. This is reconciled in Vedic wisdom, which informs that Godhead has inconceivable attributes. One of those divine attributes is that despite being the source of all energy, which connects everything and everyone, that same source has a non-material personality, which can broadcast intentions, into the spiritual heart of each being. That Supreme Personality, also hears and responds to heartfelt prayers and meditations, in the most loving way - even though spirit/source may seem unresponsive. For example, a person with mixed motives may pray for a dying person to be healed, when actually that patient's mission on earth is done, and it's time to move on. Many times, we don't get the bigger picture. As for Robert's question, "is God/spirit is external to us", the Vedic reply is a quailified "yes" - describing that Godhead is both a divine, separate, energetic personality that lovingly communicates with us when we are open to receive divine downloads, and also resides internally within us and everywhere - while simultaneously connecting all matter and spirit energetically by divine inconceivable potency.

[@chyfields]

Like everything else, if consciousness exists on a spectrum, across all life forms, where would our human level of consciousness be positioned?

[@friendoengus]

one view is that we can inhabit the whole spectrum, or any part of it a little tragically, one finds a great deal of 'human' doings toward the low end

[@antimaterialworld2717]

@@friendoengus we are obviously very small, localized parts of consciousness so obviously there is no question of inhabiting whole spectrum at same time.

[@friendoengus]

@@antimaterialworld2717 aloha antimaterial on the face of things, what you assert appears to be the case at the same time, have we encountered a working description of what the limits are, for five-fingered beings like us? ' we are obviously very small, localized parts of consciousness ...' ok, generally speaking, but our states are ever-changing, and sometimes we are somewhat less 'small', even a little 'big' an aphorism addresses the situation- 'love is a let-go' with a big enough experience of such a letting-go (rare as it may be) the 'vast' spectrum becomes tiny, indeed mind is not big enough to grasp it thank goodness, by heart it actually occurs, however briefly, undiminished by the rarity or brevity of such an experience favoring intuition supports opening of the heart the more open the heart, the better the odds of encountering more of the spectrum

[@antimaterialworld2717]

@@friendoengus i am not saying we are this limited experience. Of course there is more than what meets the eye. But my point is that in absolute sense you have infinite and then more infinite. Because our infinite experience is just part of the whole. So if you raise your experience obviously everything else is going to raise. So part never really reach the state of whole. What to say about fully reaching, there are infinetly many infinitesimal units of consciousness or souls so how "great" must be experience of the whole.

[@friendoengus]

@@antimaterialworld2717 yes existence is vast, beyond what words can begin to touch, likewise the human experience of a single person (what to say then, of billions) infinite is an interesting word, though used routinely, perhaps more accurate to say 'misused' (as our mentations can scarcely grasp the infinite) we have infinite in mathematics, even infinite examples of infinite it is just so easy to double, or cut in half, any infinite set within maths however, isn't mathematics strictly in the imaginal realm? whether planets and stars, or grains of sand, is there any evidence that we could not eventually come to the end of them (granted sufficient time)? of course, we can't know we can only see a little ways out, so no evidence for an 'edge' of existence, for us point being, there is a distinction between a 'really, really, really, really ... big number' and infinite to dial it down to a conceivable level, if we all counted grains of sand (and could track which grains we'd counted from which still needed counting) and all our children kept counting, and their children ... on down the line, given enough millenia, or enough billions of years, however long it takes, we would one day complete the count such a count is impossible to perform, but the point is that grains of sand are finite, and so is everything else we can touch, things that are real, existing in this materium in the imaginal, the imaginarium, we can concoct examples of infinite, but here in the materium where we are born and can touch things, i can't recall a single example of an existing infinite thing there might be for now, we are far too limited to reach further if you (or anyone else here) knows about anything material that is infinite, please share what that is not sure, but my hypothesis is that infinite may be like the word 'nothing' though used so routinely, and considered a 'thing' by nearly all, nothing is (in a way) a nonsense term nothing can only refer to an absence of things, not a thing that exists, so there is no such thing as nothing if anyone knows otherwise, please share anything you know about nothing, other than referring to the absence of actual things english language is loaded with such (nearly) meaningless terms, along with misleading or upside down words (where common usage is opposite of literal meaning), malappropriations so, a lot boils down to issues of words and language for example, your reference ' ... in absolute sense you have infinite and then more infinite." is not true infinite is infinite, while we can imagine up an additional infinite set, there can not be 'more' infinite of an infinite set, as infinite is already unlimited hoping this helps you antimaterial, or somebody here, at least a little it's pretty hard work, squeezing it out into print

[@jamesruscheinski8602]

Is quantum field mechanics the sub / unconscious mind relating to human conscious mind? Called sub / unconscious mind in relation to human conscious mind?

[@charlesgallagher1376]

I agree with Julia. Great explanation in plain English, no woo woo.

[@mintakan003]

In speaking about the "unconscious", she's a good representative on the question, "why do religious (spiritual) sentiments persist"? "Why does it appear the way it does"? This is despite acknowledging the truth of science, in describing the physical world. But why does the human psyche appear in the way that it does? The typical explanation comes from evolutionary psychology. A lot of sentiments are results of optimizing for the survival of the individual, the tribe, the species. However, this is a kind of broad (hand-wavy) type of explanation. One can imagine, optimization along these lines, would be much more narrowly focussed along these lines. It doesn't quite explain the specifics of why religious sentiment appears in the way that it does, with its broader, more universal qualities (Christianity, Vendantism, Buddhism, NDE's, ...).

[@Healthy_honesty]

All right you are correct I'm not being a bigot or biased I think in some psychology we're coming coming into it from a ethnicity point of view. for instance transpersonal psychology or I can do cognitive psychology I'm trying to look at the deep deep state of consciousness say like a reincarnated thought which I can give investigated to say hey only reason I knew this because I probably pre-existed before not just a friendly guest from The consciousness because I seen somebody else do it across the street. Some people feel like this is a simulation some people feel like this is hell some people feel like when you die you can go to hell atheist they feel like none of that exists to a certain degree or something like the universe you die and that's it so in a psychologist point of view we are looking at this dude maybe ethnicity from where you come from some has surpassed like boundaries where I mean some people are not prejudice I'm just reading comments not saying My views could be correct either we all got to understand all of us are connected and search some kind of form of fashion that's why

[@chayanbosu3293]

Lord Krishna says our existence consist of 3 levels 1.gross body 2.subtle body i.e mind, intellect and ego 3.soul.Now conciousness emarges from soul and mind is the interface between outer world and soul.

[@brunoborma]

I think it is a nice metaphor.

[@brunoborma]

@Greg LeJacques haha sure it means what you say too. What in this world that you like does not serve your interest ? In the original sense, I just agree, because I see things in a similar way.

[@3-dwalkthroughs]

@Greg LeJacques Lord Krishna also describes there is a spiritual dimension of reality, which eternally exists independently of the cycles of manifestation and dissolution of universes, wherein principle of entropy has no play. I want to play there.

[@dongshengdi773]

@Greg LeJacques We cannot deny that the building blocks of our macroscopic universe is dependent on the atomic universe or quantum reality. In the materialist point of view, it is indeed absurd to assert that human consciousness is responsible for the collapse of the wave function, but it is not absurd that some non-human conscious being or entity could have been the cause. Because if no consciousness is required then it would just be of equal assertion that we are just denying what we have just learned or discovered about quantum mechanics. In fact, many scientists Do believe in what they call cosmic consciousness (Dr. Michio Kaku), There has been over 20,000 scientific papers written about consciousness, and there is still No consensus . Physicists are made of atoms. A physicist is an attempt by an atom to understand itself. ~ Physicist Dr. Michio Kaku Collective Consciousness or Cosmic Consciousness . … "I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness." (Max Planck)

[@aarrvindmbd1974]

What is the correct definition of spirituality ?

[@fortynine3225]

According Wiki there is not one widely agreed upon definition of ''spirituality''. I think realisticaly it means ''deepest values and meanings by which people live''.

[@علي-ش7ث8ب]

Real spirituality comes from the One and Unique God, anything else is worthless

[@علي-ش7ث8ب]

@@visancosmin8991 you can be an "image" of God

[@علي-ش7ث8ب]

@@visancosmin8991 God doesn't need to type

[@علي-ش7ث8ب]

@@visancosmin8991 Then you don't know who is God,which means you're not God

[@chargersina]

Sufism and physics can both tell us about reality. I am a drop in the Ocean, I can see myself as the ocean. Scientifically we can call the ocean the quantum wave function.

[@brunoborma]

They are analogous, in a physicalist paradigm, but not the same. Wave function does not leave the physical aspect of existence.

[@friendoengus]

sufi spotted! aloha chargersina, nice to see ya here's one then (and not from a book)- 'Sufi is a harbor of Love and nothing else' cheers, love

[@brunoborma]

@Greg LeJacques wave function is a mathematical concept, hence it deals with measurable, quantifiable aspects of reality, aka physicalist aspect (mass, position, duration, charge, spin, etc). Consciousness can not be apprpached like that. I am not even refering to the mind, which is the most obvious aspect of subjectivity. Consciousnesss refers to the subjecrivity itself, not its qualities. It is not quantifiable, because it cannot be seen, just as the eyes cannot look at themselves. So, that is why I say that was an analogy, a good physicalist one.

[@thomasridley8675]

There are many minds, but this one is mine. A one of a kind build. My personal property. I didn't ask to be here and owe no god or anything else for the supposed privilege of having my blink.

[@thomasridley8675]

@@visancosmin8991 I am not taking any responsibility for this mess. Well, I always told the wife that my farts were powered by god. She doesn't think it's as funny as I do. 😁

[@jamesruscheinski8602]

Is monotheism saying that God is other, or that God is beyond, within and undergirding; such that human being is part of larger God?

[@jamesruscheinski8602]

Does sub / unconscious mind in human brain have a physical basis? Might quantum field mechanics have some kind of physical basis, maybe more concrete than physical nature?

[@Healthy_honesty]

You guys have to combine the two episodes which makes this one a whole the video with Charles t tart and this lady Julia together then you can understand the concept of the consciousness the unconsciousness that transpersonal and untranspersonal events that can be falling into one spiritual concept which later on I will email these two individuals to explain my theory that I me myself thought about while watching these KZbin videos peace out

[@pasquino0733]

I'm a bit agnostic about the notion of "the unconscious mind"... i.e. is this conscious / unconscious bifurcation, just falling back on an early 20th century outlook that has past its time?

[@jamesruscheinski8602]

What programs brain to make meaning? Might quantum field mechanics bring meaning to brain, or something else?

[@antimaterialworld2717]

brain is making meaning because there is an observer who want to experience that meaning. Without consciousness there would be no meaning.

[@antimaterialworld2717]

@@visancosmin8991 to say brain does not exist is strong statemen, becouse it obviously is. Of course it is temporary so you can say it is not fundamental to reality, but still it is real transformation of energy.

[@amdredlambda]

I do agree with Julia, only to the terms of God, this God is a mind construct fundament in, "the more conscious Souls agree on to follow ones "ideology", say religion, the greater the support for this individual God's soul to "eternal" existence after it passes from its spiritual physical body". The greater the followers one Soul have, the longer in eternity will endure. God is a result of the erudite intellect of a Soul gifted mind.

[@xanderwrencher4137]

Transcendent reality is a person!

[@MrModikoe]

lol yes & no

[@longcastle4863]

"Something that connects us all" is such a pretty idea. I especially relate to it about 90 minutes into one of my medical marijuana gummies ; _)_ . But how connected is the wildebeest to the pack of lions taking it down?

[@0-by-1_Publishing_LLC]

*"But how connected is the wildebeest to the pack of lions taking it down?"* ... X-amount of wildebeests and X-amount of lions. Each wildebeest that gets taken by a lion is a microcosm of atoms taking electrons from other atoms. Just like with the perfect balance of nature we have the perfect balance of particles.

[@longcastle4863]

@@0-by-1_Publishing_LLC Yet, still somehow the wildebeest is kicking and screaming the whole time ; _)_

[@3-dwalkthroughs]

In this world individual consciousness is covered by a sense of false ego. That false ego sees itself as the center of the world, and everything else is made for its consumption and enjoyment on the human and animal level. Part of progressive human consciousness is realizing there is a greater reality that exist beyond one’s selfish desires and temporary bodily identifications.

[@0-by-1_Publishing_LLC]

@@longcastle4863 *"Yet, still somehow the wildebeest is kicking and screaming the whole time"* ... YES! The cold-blooded, unforgiving brutality of nature! Atoms being stripped of their electrons, planets getting destroyed by asteroids, solar systems being consumed by black holes, and wildebeests being eaten by lions. ... _It's all the same stuff!_ During the first 10 billion years, Existence extracted all of the information it required from inanimate structure. After all, you can only process the data from energy, spin, trajectory, speed, composition, impact, etc. so many times before it all becomes "redundant data." The next step for Existence was to evolve all of this inanimate data into animated data (life) where these same processes once again play out through organisms, plants, animals, and insects. Your "wildebeest and lion" scenario is a perfect example. Bear in mind that Existence has no idea of the ramifications of moving all of this data into sentience. It's simply "evolving" into whatever comes next no matter what the outcome. Once again, you can only process the data from "predator and prey" events so many times before even sentience becomes redundant. So, after around 4 billion years of this, Existence evolves into sentient, self-aware humans such as you and me. And what are you and I doing right now? We're deciding whether or not nature is a cold-blooded, unforgivingly brutal arena or a perfect, natural system steeped in balance, structure, and order. You, me, and everyone else are now cranking out our subjective "value judgments" for everything we observe. Existence uses this data in determining what the next stage of evolution will be. Modern humans are now saturating the database of Existence with "all-new data" such as kindness, forgiveness, charity, hope, love, and sacrifice. But what happens next if our data starts to become redundant? How many redundant, back-and-forth debates between scripted political shills must Existence endure before evolving everything into something else?

[@longcastle4863]

@@3-dwalkthroughs What you call false ego is just our conscious awareness of being a thing in the environment different from all the other things in the environment. Works wonderfully for survival.

[@Healthy_honesty]

💭 you keep bringing my type of learning this KZbin channel is the sh** sorry for my language but trying to do a quick degree in transpersonal psychology

[@Octwavian]

she gets it

[@Nilesh001D]

That's advaiata vedanta for you!

[@nahorsurazal3803]

What is consciousness

[@DJSTOEK]

❤❤

[@haroonaverroes6537]

I figured out the proper way to connect both subatomic scale with cosmological scale, the mechanism of how time works will make it easier to unify both scales, I was wondering how relativity became a wrapper and how did Einstein managed it ! but now I know why. that will open the gate of science, a new mathematics and physics are coming as a result of that, it will be the right first step on the ladder of science. there is no big mistakes, they did a good work, only missing a deeper understanding of the fundamentals of physics. I think that will take few hundreds of years of continuous hard scientific work (workable, tested and reliable physics theory).

[@friendoengus]

is this related to the video?

[@thealkemychannel4758]

I made a Golem using an old Kabbalistic manuscript, it ask questions, it wants to know the meaning of its life, it's conscious.

[@friendoengus]

congratulations now, time to publish your methodology and outcomes (don't golems turn on their benefactors, even eat them?)

[@jacovawernett3077]

11.17.2015..Eve Beach Waikiki evening. I asked God His name. He answered, fundamentally E. I answered, energy of consciousness that suffuses everything. Every proton, neutron, electron, quark, spark of light and black hole. He answered, don't forget the science.

[@friendoengus]

@@jacovawernett3077 so beautiful many thanks

[@jacovawernett3077]

@@friendoengus 3.14.

[@friendoengus]

@@jacovawernett3077 you are special not tech-capable here, unsure what 3.14 is, but feels techie anyway, i like it keep going, friend and stay strong

[@jamesruscheinski8602]

causation with subjective experience?

[@thejackdiamondart]

If the universe is as water we are as ice floating in it. The universe is a cloud we are as a water droplet existing in it. If the universe is consciousness we are but a thought.

[@maxwellsimoes238]

Rambling gibberish

[@chargersina]

I am but a drop in the Ocean and a drop of ocean can call itself the ocean. Scientifically I call The ocean the quantum wave function.

[@thejackdiamondart]

@@chargersina I have long thought so. Just a note in the music of life it all plays out in the rhythm of a quantum wave.

[@thejackdiamondart]

@@maxwellsimoes238 Yes isn’t a useful tool in considering the possibilities? Some would use the term “brain storming” a way open new ways to look a things without fear of ridicule in an endeavor to advance our understanding both scientifically and spiritually. Thanks for responding, best

[@brunoborma]

I guess you mean physical-mental reality when you say universe. Is it so ?

[@Robinson8491]

Very interesting, I wonder how she came to these conclusions

[@brunoborma]

Psychodelics is very probable.

[@spaceexplorer3690]

Yeees i meaan noo but yes,yes at the end yes even its no 😂😂😂😂

[@friendoengus]

observation?

[@smithgov]

It is called "her opinion"

[@Robinson8491]

@@smithgov there are opinions and there are informed opinions

[@0-by-1_Publishing_LLC]

(6:55) *JM: **_"If we all have quarks in us you can't say 'my quarks and your quarks' because on some level they're all the same."_* ... Likewise you can't say "my consciousness and your consciousness" because they are all technically the same based on "oneness." When we break down multidimensional matter to its simplest _observable_ components, we end up with quarks. But when you regress quarks one level deeper, you enter the realm of nondimensional *"information."* Everything in existence is comprised of information (even quarks). Quarks are a highly evolved, physical manifestations of the nondimensional information for which they are comprised. The same goes for what we commonly call "consciousness." However, if you regress our self-aware consciousness down to its most basic form, you also end up with "information." What we call "consciousness" is just a highly evolved state of information that's now able to process and evaluate all previously existing information (like a CPU does with data on a hard drive). Just like we all do once we reach adulthood, Existence has entered a *self-evaluation period.* Existence is exploring what it means to exist through our human self-awareness. Our incessant "value judgments" rendered for everything we observe are redefining what Existence represents and generating "new information" in the process. There is no soul, no consciousness, no God, no spirt, or anything supernatural taking place. It's all just "Existence" trying to comprehend what 13.8 billion years of existence represents ... ... and Existence is accomplishing all of this through _us!_

[@friendoengus]

makes pretty good sense one might suppose consciousness/existence is eternal, meaning we are as well (per your last line) close enough to consider this amounts to an eternal soul/consciousness/spirit/god nothing supernatural needed use the term 'existence', ok whatever the term, actual conditions remain the same

[@aw55550]

When you said all instances of consciousness are the same, do you mean numerically the same (There is only a singular consciousness in existence) or do you mean there are multiple instances of consciousness that are identical in their attributes/properties? (Like the quintillions of electrons in the universe being the same) EDIT: As you mention information, does your view align to John Wheeler´s "it from bit" concept?

[@0-by-1_Publishing_LLC]

@@friendoengus *"one might suppose consciousness/existence is eternal, meaning we are as well (per your last line)"* ... Why would Existence be either external or internal? Why wouldn't it be both? *Example:* Every idle thought you have is "internal." There is no physical, external manifestation of whatever you were thinking, but your idle thought, itself, still must exist. It MUST exist because if everything in existence were removed except for your one idle thought, that single thought _still_ represents something "more" than Nonexistence. *"use the term 'existence', ok whatever the term, actual conditions remain the same"* ... Theists would not agree. Theism's God is defined as all-knowing, all-powerful, ubiquitous, and infinitely existing (no beginning and no end). Those conditions are not present anywhere within the universe.

[@0-by-1_Publishing_LLC]

@@aw55550 *"When you said all instances of consciousness are the same, do you mean numerically the same (There is only a singular consciousness in existence) or do you mean there are multiple instances of consciousness that are identical in their attributes/properties? (Like the quintillions of electrons in the universe being the same)"* ... Excellent question that also lets me know you fully read and comprehended what I wrote. People wonder why they exist as a unique, self-enclosed individual. You and I both ponder how and why we somehow exist within our individual bodies and why we exist at this particular time in universal history. I can't be you for a while and you can't be me. We are both "locked in" to who we are. My argument is that this "self-awareness" is a foundational structure that every human possesses and exploits. It's like a "blank slate" until it encounters its first outside sensory information. Everyone receives this same "blank slate" feature, and this blank slate evolves into greater complexity with each piece of information it receives and processes. That means you, me, Alexander, Joseph Stalin, Miley Cyrus, Robert Kuhn, Julia Mossbridge, and everyone else who has ever existed started out with the same "self-awareness" template, but we all evolved into different personalities based on the information we experienced during our lifetime and the information relative to our environment. *DVD Example:* DVDs are essentially all exactly the same. They are a round disc of plastic that gets etched with binary data via a laser. However, a wide variety of external information can be etched into a DVD rendering each one as "different." The movies "Castaway" and "Iron Man" are two completely different movies that you can find on DVDs, but the physical DVDs, themselves, are identical at their core. "Castaway" and "Iron Man" are like two different self-aware personalities etched onto DVDs. Apply that same thinking to what we call "self-awareness," and it all makes sense! *"As you mention information, does your view align to John Wheeler´s "it from bit" concept?"* ... Our concepts are similar, be Wheeler takes everything in a different direction. He focuses more on the analytical side of existence whereas I target how everything is connected through evolutionary patterns.

[@friendoengus]

@@0-by-1_Publishing_LLC hi zero is there confusion here re internal/external/eternal? theists are as diverse as any group with as many theisms, so we can't put words in their mouths at any rate, we both use english, but are not sharing a common tongue best wishes

[@fracta1organism]

her description of the scientific process that she finds spiritual is similar to how terence mckenna describes his interaction with the machine elves.

[@antimaterialworld2717]

yes, there is sense of influence of attractor on the end. Not sure why they conclude that this attractor is mechanistic. It makes not sense. More logical conclusion is that it is Personal. Like Krishna means all-attractive.

[@stephenzhao5809]

Some scienctists are very limited, unfortunately, they would love to be faithless beings.

[@owencampbell4947]

Most people understand consciousness as a machine that produces the same product over and over. What they don't understand is, that the machine only produces the platform, the decorations are individually made by others. So it's obvious what we can observe, that mentalities throughout ethnicities differ from each other. 99% of all emerged existences, need a leadership, only 1% are leaders or free from such phenomena. This explains why most people believe. Nowadays most people ride the wave of scientific explanations even if they're wrong, but they stick to it and can't be convinced otherwise. That is the nature built in process of the 99%. Of course this weakness is being abused by members of the 1% because they know that people can't help themselves. There used to be civilizations long before our known, they worshiped leaders, no sign yet of any God's, this belief system developed as smart men created God's to profit on their own, that's why the many God's arised throughout the ethnicities knowing how to profit out of it. There's no one to blame, it's a combined natural phenomena with the smartness of a few, in the latest civilization history. Consciousness is the beautiful creation to understand and visualize reality, but also open to explore and discover, if correctly introduced it has infinite capacities, it's the unique known till now given wonder to humans. Every thought, belief, nonsense, language, mathematics, time, etc. are registered external informations.

[@friendoengus]

interesting and beautiful thank you

[@FalseCogs]

What is the difference between "worshipping leaders" and authoritarianism? Are these "1%" immune from ignorance and manipulation? Are they, unlike others, able to produce thoughts of their own, originating in the person rather than through the totality of society and causally relevant existence?

[@owencampbell4947]

@@FalseCogs you can only worship what you know, leaders,kings,emperors, allowed no one aside them, this was a low class idea of creating a figure for the poor a king for all low class people around the world, and of course every low class will rather worship a king of their kind than a non familiar king. There is a difference yes, between the 1% and the 99%. But there are a lot more factors that are responsible for differences in awareness of an individual. What most people do not realize is that the brain is continuously registering in a billionst of a second all kinds of informations like sounds, noise, light, conversation, emotions, everything in its surroundings, and that every second of our life. There is no computing system that will ever reach that level.

[@blankman1212]

It's a shame to think how much further we, the human race, would be at this point if we didn't waste so much brain power and energy on things like "spirituallity', "religion", "currency" etc...

[@blankman1212]

@@visancosmin8991 there is literally a brain in your head, it's not an idea

[@3-dwalkthroughs]

I would say most of the human race, especially the majority of the scientific community, have not wasted any brain power on things like spirituality and religion. What's really a shame, is to think of how all that concentrated brain power has not furthered we, the human race. Sub-human politicians and industrialists continue to plot wars which inflict misery through the world, poverty is rampant, the list of diseases people suffer from seems to grow continually, and the top 1% live large and lavishly, while the balance 99% breathe the funk. To me, that's much more shameful for the we, the human race, than a few people contemplating spirituality.

[@blankman1212]

@@3-dwalkthroughs there have been wars and conflicts based on religion throughout human history right on up to today. Same goes for political ideologies.

[@jamesruscheinski8602]

conscious awareness of subjective experience?

[@علي-ش7ث8ب]

*Why don't people just stop asking too many questions and have an experience instead*

[@friendoengus]

heh heh, heh heh, ... o' goodness, heh heh but we better not hold our breath, waiting for this one ...

[@FalseCogs]

Making statements and asking questions keeps us feeling in control, but having an experience often means releasing control. Such a proposition may frighten the egoic sentiment. Who wants to lose control?

[@علي-ش7ث8ب]

@@FalseCogs *Yes,exactly,spirtituality is nothing but submission,this is the core idea of all religions.*

[@mikel4879]

Robert is a very clever person...😏😉 We get you, Robert! 😉

[@youaresomeone3413]

Then why do we live to die?

[@friendoengus]

hi someone per ken wheeler, 'what leads you too suppose you are that which dies?'

[@maxwellsimoes238]

Rambling gibberish

[@0-by-1_Publishing_LLC]

*"Then why do we live to die?"* ... You exist to produce new information. However, to hijack a popular casino term, _"What happens in existence stays in existence."__ Whatever information you represent as a unique, self-aware individual, and all of the information you generate never disappears. Whatever is Existent cannot become nonexistent and vice versa. In other words, you'll always be around whether you like it or not because Existence is an all-or-nothing proposition.

[@youaresomeone3413]

@@friendoengus What leads you to suppose you should ask that question?

[@friendoengus]

@@youaresomeone3413 evading the question by bringing another question fails just try a little we can learn that is what this forum is for, neh?

[@cpadman5800]

This sounds like Advaita Vedanta, what this lady says about consciousness, individual consciousness and universal consciousness are one, there is only one consciousness pervading everywhere, you can name it anything you want, Brahman or something else.

[@antimaterialworld2717]

@@visancosmin8991 yes and reason cannot reach the transcendence. Becouse it creates faulty appearance of oneness of everything with conclusion that "I am all" or God. Which is obviously just imagination.

[@antimaterialworld2717]

@@visancosmin8991 i think you confuse concepts of ego and false ego. Every individual have proper ego but under selfish condition it accept temporary position which is false. That is what you refer to ego. But that does not mean that after getting rid of the dual ego we become without identification whatsoever. Rather that we become identifited in relation to God, not as one with the God.

[@mykrahmaan3408]

Consider the following possibility:: 1) NATURE has designed beings in such a way that ABSOLUTE KNOWLEDGE is only accessible by analyzing the nonliving nature. Hence the more you harm beings or analyze them the more destructive, though practically applicable, knowledge you'd gather. 2) Brain itself is the portion of the historically accumulated destructive substance NATURE assigns to each individual being to detrace. Hence, it is neither the central coordinating organ nor the source of CONSCIOUSNESS, which is to be found in the interactions of each individual being with the section of the earth's interior that composed the particular being. 3) Animals access them intuitively, while humans must interpret NUMBERS as PARTICLES and the arithmetic operations as interactions among them inside the earth to access the composing source of own body inside the earth. Experimental and Observational Science is a very fatalistically destructive FAITH that a single force (now named LAWS OF NATURE instead of GOD) controls all events in the universe and the knowledge acquired without any purpoe would serve to satisfy needs of humans, while completely ignoring those of animals. Further, it quantizes only the single sense perception, SIGHT, while ignoring all OTHER SENSES and also the more important NEED and SATISFACTION perceptions. NATURE can't be so stupid to have provided humans different organs for different sense, need and satisfaction perceptions, if all others can be derived as functions of the single sense (SIGHT) perception.

[@Jesusismykin]

What is important is, does God exist or not.? And I know for sure that God exists.

[@Dion_Mustard]

I used to be VERY cynical about "spiritual" experiences - in fact I'd often dismiss them as just tricks of the mind, but then I started having Out of Body Experiences and very vivid lucid dreams which felt as real as my current waking "reality", therefore I know other realities exist, or to put it another way, I know there are many levels of consciousness, and I am not sure they're all purely connected to the brain. I know without a doubt that when I was outside my body, I was just that, OUTSIDE, looking down, not inside looking out. So my feeling is consciousness is "non-local". And like I said, this notion was never plausible to me once upon a time.

[@friendoengus]

aloha live brilliant and well put keep doing what you're doing, especially trusting y'self

[@tonyatkinson2210]

Your mind playing tricks on you is not evidence of mind /body duality

[@specialbeamcharlie7250]

Were all made of Quarks! Love that line.

[@ayoubzahiri1918]

@@visancosmin8991 you’re going way too deep here, observer and observed will merge into one

[@friendoengus]

@@ayoubzahiri1918 heh heh 'danger, danger, will robinson!' a worthy and fun try, but has not slowed down visan, and too late!, already merged, from the very gate outcome is kinda creepy, 'observer observing itself' but all ok in the end observer can be counted on for high compassion for itself, the only game in town

[@bernardliu8526]

Not only quarks do not exist: they are Ipso facto lifeless. So, how come some particular quarks interacting with each other would lead to the emergence of life ?

[@dongshengdi773]

@Greg LeJacques We cannot deny that the building blocks of our macroscopic universe is dependent on the atomic universe or quantum reality. In the materialist point of view, it is indeed absurd to assert that human consciousness is responsible for the collapse of the wave function, but it is not absurd that some non-human conscious being or entity could have been the cause. Because if no consciousness is required then it would just be of equal assertion that we are just denying what we have just learned or discovered about quantum mechanics. In fact, many scientists Do believe in what they call cosmic consciousness (Dr. Michio Kaku), There has been over 20,000 scientific papers written about consciousness, and there is still No consensus . Physicists are made of atoms. A physicist is an attempt by an atom to understand itself. ~ Physicist Dr. Michio Kaku Collective Consciousness or Cosmic Consciousness . … "I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness." (Max Planck)

[@antimaterialworld2717]

to say that consciousness is subset of unconscious does not make sense logicaly. Its easier to fit non-experiental into experiental then experiental into non-experiental.

[@antimaterialworld2717]

@@visancosmin8991 not they are not. You can fit space and time into consciousness. But you cannot fit consciousness into space and time. Conscious is in Absolute terms superior to unconscious. From our limited perspective they both seems to be inconciavable for us. But obviously there would be no meaning for reality if there was not a person who is experience it.

[@kiers1970]

Isn't it great to listen to and almost understand people so much more intelligent than ourselves? And then...... Try to have a conversation trying to explain what we thought we understood to our friends..... Tskkk

[@stoictraveler1]

A little vague, but how could it be anything but if you are sticking with science.

[@sns8420]

You are the Music not the Radio, the Waves (God Consciousness) comes through Your body (the radio) and plays your song based on your tuned station

[@brunoborma]

This is still dualistic. It is differemt from what the lady is trying to depict. You are not separate from God.

[@sns8420]

@@brunoborma you misunderstand -,you are the Music (God Consciousness)

[@longcastle4863]

What tune is he playing through your average serial killer?

[@smithgov]

@@longcastle4863 it is the radio station they have tuned into. We all have the opportunity to chose our response to every stimuli.

[@longcastle4863]

@@smithgov Yes, but by your reasoning, since the radio waves are God, then Ted Bundy was apparently one of the songs in God's repertoire. Not getting it ...

[@eagledon7199]

If one can't convince, one must confused!

[@FalseCogs]

The immediate _process_ of consciousness may be local, but the _contents_ of consciousness -- including all thoughts and beliefs -- originates from the totality of causally relevant existence. Practical divisions neither spatial, nor temporal, may separate one piece of these contents from another. Sometimes called _dependent arising_ in Buddhism, everything arises together. This includes material such as genes, and immaterial such as feelings. Your brain and body are as outlets of the universal mind. You are not doing, but being done. Enjoy the ride!

[@haroonaverroes6537]

it is not unconscious, they think so because they still can not understand what is consciousness in general. and consciousness type two is just a small part of self concept. consciousness type one ans two are strongly related but they are independent of each other. future generations will have to add a new mental categorization regarding mankind to classify rational human entities those recognize themselves from irrational human entities (scientifically they have to).

[@friendoengus]

not so clear what is meant

[@fortynine3225]

​ I think folks here do not understand what conscious and unconscious is. A dream is a manifestation of the unconscious. It has to do with stuff that is hidden inside a person, stuff one is not aware about. Also anything spontanious is unconscious. Under the hood in a person all sort of unconscious proccesses are going on. A human being is unconscious driven for the most part also. There is a lot support for the view that the consciousness is a sort of island in a ocean of unconsciousness with the unconscious being in control. The conscious plays a rather minor part...

[@complexlogic8634]

All that remains is to mathematize this with a model that lends itself to physical experimentation.

[@3-dwalkthroughs]

@@visancosmin8991 You might feel that the physical does exist, and is more than just an idea in consciousness, if someone physically punched you in the face. Just sayin'

[@3-dwalkthroughs]

@@visancosmin8991 your statement was that the physical does not exist, but either in the waking state or the dream state the pain exists at that moment either in one’s physical body or mind. Pan felt in the physical realm does exist and it’s real but it’s just temporary,

[@complexlogic8634]

@@visancosmin8991 even if it doesn't "exist", I still think we could mathematize it in a way where we could make physical predictions, like in quantum mechanics.

[@complexlogic8634]

@@visancosmin8991 yes I am well aware of the limitations of math on anything including math itself, however that hasn't stopped others from making use of its repertoire of abstract ideas. Skimming through your paper, "the self referential aspect of consciousness", I now have a taste for some phenomenological readings. Thanks 👋🏼

[@brettlunden8268]

Sounds a bit like what has been called panpsychism?

[@dongshengdi773]

We cannot deny that the building blocks of our macroscopic universe is dependent on the atomic universe or quantum reality. In the materialist point of view, it is indeed absurd to assert that human consciousness is responsible for the collapse of the wave function, but it is not absurd that some non-human conscious being or entity could have been the cause. Because if no consciousness is required then it would just be of equal assertion that we are just denying what we have just learned or discovered about quantum mechanics. In fact, many scientists Do believe in what they call cosmic consciousness (Dr. Michio Kaku), There has been over 20,000 scientific papers written about consciousness, and there is still No consensus . Physicists are made of atoms. A physicist is an attempt by an atom to understand itself. ~ Physicist Dr. Michio Kaku Collective Consciousness or Cosmic Consciousness . … "I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness." (Max Planck)

[@jayjames7055]

"If all human beings have an unconscious ..." Surely we all have an unconscious, that is the part of the mind that keeps the ticker beating for example. We do not consciously beat our own hearts. It happens unconsciously. By definition it may be impossible to ever know what is going on in the unconscious. There may be good reasons for that. There is also a subconscious which hovers between the conscious and the unconscious and can be discerned through meditation, or meticulous observation. Now, we all know that our hearts beat, however the possibility that the subconscious creates more of our experience - than maintaining a heart beat, keeping blood circulating, growing fingernails etc. - has been posited for over a century at least. Indeed Shakespeare appears to allude to it in Macbeth, and to personify it in Hamlet (in the guise of the ghost of the king). It has been claimed that the character of Jesus in the bible is wholly concerned with the subconscious and appears to be an expert in wielding it. Thus expanding its scope beyond the mere growing of fingernails and such and into the realm of apparent miracles.

[@johncox2865]

She isn’t talking about your reptilian brain. She refers to that part of reality of which we are unaware but are a tiny part of nonetheless. While this may include bodily function, etc., it far exceeds it. If I may coin a phrase, he key issue here is ‘Non-Otherness’.

[@fortynine3225]

The unconscious and the subconscious is the same will lots of experts tell you...interchangeably.... Some make a distinction by viewing the subconscious as a part of the unconscious that is within reach (Freud called that the pre-conscious mind)..with the rest of the unconscious being deeper and more far away. At its core the unconscious is psychology related, being ''discovered'' by Sigmund Freud (founder of psychoanalysis) , other disciplines might use the word differently. Like i said most who are lots involved with the unconscious use unconscious and subconscious interchangebly since nearby or far away it is still unconscious by definition.

[@The-Wide-Angle]

But what is realized in meditation is not the mechanical unconscious that regulates bodily functions. It is a "supra-conscious" rather than "sub-conscious" or "un- conscious".

[@jayjames7055]

@@The-Wide-Angle The ultimate goal perhaps. I was thinking more about: a simple dreamy 'meditative' state. (My understanding of the 'subconscious' is that it helps learned behaviours such as walking and driving whereas the unconscious with breathing etc..)

[@ingenuity168]

Is she saying she's a panpsychist?

[@friendoengus]

not directly, but sounds to be so, hard to know, with such a brief glimpse

[@azsx299]

Such a classic patriarchal view of science. Nothing wrong with that of course.

[@azsx299]

@@visancosmin8991 Watch the first couple minutes again and you should know. (Undressing the maiden nature to discover her secrets)

[@azsx299]

@Neil maybe a lesbian matriarch. I mean it's an old metaphor she's rehashing for the bazillionth time that those OG white man scientists used themselves hundreds of years ago

[@steinbeck1805]

A bit of a missed opportunity in this one; she’s an accomplished scientist, but her “aesthetics” are clearly just that. Some speculation, some wishful thinking, a little introspection and so forth. Nothing backed up by anything and no evidence required. Her PhD doesn’t matter in those musings, although to be fair she didn’t claim as much.

[@Dion_Mustard]

i disagree. what she is describing has become reality for some many, including myself. i can tell you now from personal experience, that consciousness is not a product of the brain, and is "non-local" , so to speak. I have experienced this, though I used to be utterly sceptical of the entire thing. I can tell you, for instance, that I have experienced alternate realities during an OBE . i am guessing you have not had such an experience? you say she is just speculating. well it is speculation on both sides. either side of the argument cannot be proven, so to speak, therefore we have to trust in someone.

[@friendoengus]

concur she exerted to get across it was simply her hopeful, perhaps possible preference

[@steinbeck1805]

@@Dion_Mustard I’m sure it’s in some sense “real” to you, but that doesn’t make it real in any meaningful sense and it doesn’t get us any closer to understanding what consciousness is.

[@smithgov]

Totally agree Steinbeck. She just presented her opinions.

[@Dion_Mustard]

@@steinbeck1805 you have not experienced what i have experienced therefore you have no clue what you're saying.

[@dongshengdi773]

Science is my spirituality. Science is my religion. . There is friction between science and religion because people fail to see their common denominator. Science and religion complement each other and they are on both sides of the same coin. Science is a religion and it requires faith as much as religion does. Even atheism is a religion that requires faith that no deity exists. Proponents of science rely their faith on an institution called the scientific community. In fact there was a study made that "Faith in Science" has significantly declined in numbers as reported by the New York Post in 2012. …

[@Practicality01]

This seems like a variety of pantheism. Einstein would approve.

[@medhurstt]

Julia appears to be another one of these people who what consciousness to be eternal as a separate entity. I dont buy that any more than an electric field is eternal and independent from currents flowing in conductors. They're just not. I think consciousness only appears in running neural networks of the right kind with a focus. Otherwise she cant explain manipulating consciousness with drugs or sleep. She needs to start making stuff up to account for the effect. And that is where her ideas go off the rails IMO.

[@sicoofye2008]

what a nonsense , how these ppl are given a platform to talk about their wishes and dreams , i thought this channel is about closer to the truth !!!!

[@jamesconner8275]

Did anyone understand a word of what she said?

[@brunoborma]

Yes...pretty much I think. Can I help ?

[@Dion_Mustard]

i get her.

[@brunoborma]

@@visancosmin8991 it is obvious intelectually, it makes a lot of logical sensa...but maybe not experientially. It is generally depicted as being hard to grasp it as evident shining truth.

[@idonotlikethismusic]

Robert Lawrence Kuhn doesn't seem convinced though he does seem to think she is a quack lol

[@3-dwalkthroughs]

I don't agree; I think he is genuinely trying to find broader understanding of things that are not easy to articulate, which include philosophical understanding of concepts, mixed with one's own intuitive understanding as she expresses, which as a validity of it's own also.

[@dare-er7sw]

Quack or not we are all conscious beings and who's there to say that this consciousness didn't exist before our birth or would cease to exist after her death? Even science follows the known laws of nature and consciousness could very well be the foundation of everything. Your or mine interpretation means very little. Reality is what it is.

[@oddfellow8366]

Sure, she was a bit awkward and struggled putting her thoughts together, but a quack? I'll have to disagree.

[@idonotlikethismusic]

@@oddfellow8366 I agree with you and the other responders to my comment, I was just poking fun at Robert. I don't think she's a quack by any means!

[@johnyharris]

The only logical conclusion is that consciousness evolved though natural selection from a rudimentary instance of consciousness. Just a dose of healthy materialism to offer some balance to the masses of metaphysical alternatives on here. 😉

[@johnyharris]

@@visancosmin8991 If it evolved through natural selection it certainly is Materialistic. We can only detect consciousness in living things, nowhere else. So if consciousness is just a feature of living things, as per the evidence, like every other feature of living things it evolved through natural selection materialistically.

[@johnyharris]

@@visancosmin8991 *"Living things is synonymous with consciousness"* Not sure which particular world view lens your viewing this through so it's tricky to know what you mean. However, by any dictionary definition life and consciousness are not synonymous.

[@johnyharris]

@@visancosmin8991 I just read your signature comment in the main thread Visan (ForeverMan). We've been over this too many times already, besides, materialism and idealism never the twain shall meet. But for the record, agreed, you cannot have life without consciousness so in that sense they are synonymous. On that much we do agree.

[@johnyharris]

@@Graewulfe That's a good point of course, life does exist without consciousness. And yes when referring to a rudimentary conscious experience I mean a basic awareness of environment such as plants. Even individual cells have this, so it maybe that these simple forms of environmental awareness, over evolutionary timescales, gave rise to self aware organisms.

[@friendoengus]

@@johnyharris hi johny so rivers, mountains, planets, stars ... are alive, or not alive? isn't the whole shebang kinda alive?

[@maxwellsimoes238]

She believes spiritual is true though meaning jet minds are ignoring that conscieness hás meaning picture reality. He discern about spiritual and conscieness are worthless neuriscience because she show up her explanation with lack evidence . It is only baselesd hipotesy not more.

[@thomasridley8675]

Well, at least she can admit that her insights could be wrong. Nobody has any idea what this reality means. What if life just is ? No meaning, just a temporary artifact of the universes random nature. 🤔Bacteria thinking they are a gods ultimate creation.🙄

[@thomasridley8675]

@@visancosmin8991 God is comfort food. 😁

[@thomasridley8675]

@@visancosmin8991 I am god. Well of course you are, Isn't everyone. I am sure you say that everytime you look in a mirror.

[@thomasridley8675]

@@visancosmin8991 Infinite dreams ? Sure why not ! The gods always need a get out of responsibility card. It's all just a dream...from the mind of a madman. At this point I am having trouble even defending this intelligent species meme we have going. An intelligent species shouldn't need too be told too not drink the bleach. Or that cars don't really know how too drive.

[@thomasridley8675]

@@visancosmin8991 Just god ? A sleeping god ? 🙄 So who is God's God ? The egg without a chicken.

[@friendoengus]

@@thomasridley8675 hi thomas seems we all know we are gods whoops, meant 'seems we all know God knows it is us' ok, so much for working out (G)god(s) but re the 'intelligent species meme we have going', so far haven't noted anyone asserting an intelligent godthing, neh? (emphasis on 'intelligent')

[@dustinellerbe4125]

Makes no sense. Feelings do not mean jack

[@friendoengus]

a lot to learn for you, li'l bro! hope you can relax a little, allow your feelings, lest it be a hard and bumpy road going forward

[@dustinellerbe4125]

@@friendoengus nah, spirituality is nonsense. There is ZERO evidences for it other than feelings. I'm good.

[@friendoengus]

@@dustinellerbe4125 hi dustin appreciate your reply spirituality is a topic unto itself seems you have feelings about it as you claim to be happy with the feeling that feelings are worthless, ok (for now, for you, if not for your loved ones) life has a way of sorting out errors best wishes

[@fortynine3225]

@@dustinellerbe4125 There is no agreement on what spirtituality is so calling it nonsense is rather odd.

[@Dion_Mustard]

@@dustinellerbe4125 "spirituality is nonsense, there is zero evidence for it"..tell that to people who have had an NDE or OBE (including myself). you have no idea what you are saying, trust me on that.

[@SpiritualPsychotherapyServices]

🐟 06. CONSCIOUSNESS/AWARENESS: Consciousness means “that which knows” or “the state of being aware”, from the Latin prefix “con” (with), the stem “scire” (to know) and the suffix “osus” (characterized by). There is BOTH a localized knowing and a Universal Awareness, as explicated in the following paragraphs. Higher species of animal life have sufficient cognitive ability to KNOW themselves and their environment, at least to a measurable degree. Just where consciousness objectively begins in the animal kingdom is a matter of contention but, judging purely by ethological means, it probably starts with vertebrates (at least the higher-order birds and fishes). Those metazoans which are evolutionarily lower than vertebrates do not possess much, if any, semblance of intellect, necessary for true knowledge, but operate purely by reflexive instincts. For instance, an insect or amphibian does not consciously decide to seek food but does so according to its base instincts, directed by its idiosyncratic genetic code. Even when a cockroach flees from danger, it is not experiencing the same kind of thoughts or feelings a human or other mammal would experience. The brain is merely a conduit or TRANSDUCER of Universal Consciousness (i.e. Brahman), explaining why the more intelligent the animal, the more it can understand its own existence (or at least be aware of more of its environment - just see how amazingly-complex dolphin and whale behaviour can be, compared with other aquatic species), and the reason why it is asserted that a truly enlightened human must possess a far higher level of intelligence than the average person. The processing unit of a supercomputer must be far larger, more complex and more powerful than the processor in a pocket calculator. Therefore, it seems logical to conclude that the scale of discrete (localized) consciousness is dependent on the animal's brain capacity. See Chapter 17 to understand the distinction between enlightenment and mere awakening. Three STATES of awareness are experienced by humans and possibly all other species of mammals: the waking state (“jāgrata”, in Sanskrit), dreaming (“svapna”, in Sanskrit), and deep-sleep (“suṣupti”, in Sanskrit). Beyond these three temporal states is the fourth “state” (“turīya” or “caturīya”, in Sanskrit). That is the unconditioned, eternal “state”, which underlies the other three. The waking state is the LEAST real (that is to say the least permanent, or to put it another way, the farthest from the Necessary Ground of Existence, as explained towards the end of this chapter). The dream state is closer to our eternal nature, whilst dreamless deep-sleep is much more analogous to The Universal Self (“brahman”), as it is imbued with peace. Rather than being an absence of awareness, deep-sleep is an awareness of absence (that is, the absence of phenomenal, sensual experiences). So, in actual fact, the fourth state is not a state, but the Unconditioned Ground of Being, or to put it simply, YOU, the real self/Self, or Existence-Awareness-Peace (“sacchidānanda”, in Sanskrit). Perhaps the main purpose of dreams is so that we can understand that the waking-state is practically indistinguishable to the dream-state, and thereby come to see the ILLUSION of this ephemeral world. Both our waking-state experiences and our dream-state experiences occur solely within the mental faculties (refer to Chapter 04 for an elucidation of this phenomenon). If somebody in one of your dreams were to ask your dream-state character if the dream was real, you (playing the part of that character) would most likely say, “yes, of course this is real!” Similarly, if someone were to ask your waking-state character if this world is real, you would almost undoubtedly respond in kind. An apt analogy for Universal Consciousness is the manner in which electricity powers a variety of appliances and gadgets, according to the use and COMPLEXITY of the said device. Electricity powers a washing machine in a very simple manner, to drive a large spindle for laundering clothes. However, the very same electrical power may be used to operate a computer to manifest an astonishing range of outputs, such as playing audiovisual tracks, communication tasks, and performing extremely advanced mathematical computations, depending on the computer's software and hardware. The more advanced/complex the device, the more complex its manifestation of the same electricity. Using the aforementioned computer analogy: the brain is COMPARATIVELY equivalent to the computer hardware, deoxyribonucleic acid akin to the operating system working in conjunction with the memory, the intellect is equivalent to the processing unit, individuated consciousness is analogous to the software programme, whilst Universal Awareness is likened to the electricity which enlivens the entire computer system. A person who is comatosed has lost any semblance of local consciousness, yet is being kept alive by the presence of Universal Consciousness. The fact that many persons report out-of-body experiences, where consciousness departs from the gross body, may be evidence for the above. So, then, following-on from the assertion made in the third paragraph, one could complain: “That's not fair - why can only a genius be enlightened?” (as defined in Chapter 17). The answer is: first of all, as stated above, every species of animal has its own level of intelligence on a wide-ranging scale. Therefore, a pig or a dog could (if possible) ask: “That's unfair - why can only a human being be enlightened?” Secondly, it is INDEED a fact that life is unfair, because there is no “tit for tat” law of action and reaction, even if many supposedly-great religious preceptors have stated so. They said so because they were preaching to wicked miscreants who refused to quit their evil ways, and needed to be chastized in a forceful manner. It is not possible to speak gentle words to a rabid dog to prevent it from biting you. There is evidence of Consciousness being a universal field, in SAVANT SYNDROME, a condition in which someone with significant mental disabilities demonstrate certain abilities far in excess of the norm, such as superhuman rapid mathematical calculation, mind-reading, blind-seeing, or astounding musical aptitude. Such behaviour suggests that there is a universal field (possibly in holographic form) from which one can access information. Even simple artistic inspiration could be attributed to this phenomenon. The great British singer-songwriter, Sir James Paul McCartney, one day woke with the complete tune of the song, “Yesterday”, in his mind, after hearing it in a dream. American composer, Paul Simon, had a similar experience when the chorus of his sublime masterpiece, “Bridge Over Troubled Water”, simply popped into his head. Cont...

[@SpiritualPsychotherapyServices]

In recent years, the term “CONSCIOUSNESS” has been used in esoteric spiritual circles (usually capitalized) to refer to a far more Homogeneous Consciousness (“puruṣa”, in Sanskrit), due to the fact that the English language doesn’t include a single word denoting the Universal Ground of Being (for instance “Brahman”, “Tao”, in other tongues). The word “Awareness” (capitalized) is arguably a more apposite term for this concept. The typical person believes that the apparatus which knows the external world is his mind (via the five senses), but more perceptive individuals understand that the mind itself is cognizable by the intellect. Wise souls recognize that the sense of self (the pseudo-ego) is the perceiver of their intellects, whereas awakened persons have realized that the true self/Self is the witness of ALL these temporal phenomena. The true self is synonymous with Consciousness, or with Infinite Awareness, or the Undifferentiated Unified Field (“Brahman”, in Sanskrit). The dialectic exercise in the following three paragraphs should help one to understand the nature of the fundamental conscious observer, that is, the ULTIMATE observer of all phenomena (i.e. the subject/Subject, which is the authentic self, as opposed to material objects): If one were to ask you whether you are the same person or individual you were at birth (or even at conception), you would probably respond in the affirmative. So, then, what PRECISELY is it about you which has remained constant since conception? In other words, what is the self-identity you had as an infant, which is the present “you”? It cannot be any part of your body or mind, since none of the atoms or molecules in your zygote body are extant, and “you” certainly did not possess a mind at conception. If you are reasonably intelligent, you may claim that your genome is the same now as it was then. However, it has recently been scientifically demonstrated that genetic code can (and usually does) change throughout an individual’s lifetime. Furthermore, nobody actively conceives of their essential nature being a bunch of genes! More intelligent souls would probably counter thus: “The thing which stays the same from my birth to the present time is my sense of self.” This too, is fallacious, since the sense of self does not emerge until at least a couple of years after birth. An infant has no ideation of itself as an individual actor. You may then say “I was a (male/female) human being” but that doesn’t specify any PARTICULAR human (you, yourself). So, then, what EXACTLY is it which remains “you” from conception till death? That is the “I am” which precedes any artificial sense of self. In other words, rather than saying “I am a man/woman/human/king/pilot/etc.”, simply the impersonal sense of “I am”. That is the true self, which is the Universal Self. Therefore, your essential nature is Cosmic Consciousness, usually called “God” by theists (see also Chapter 10). The Tao (The Reality [lit. The Way, The Path, or The Road]) which can be expressed in language is not the REAL Tao. All concepts are, by nature, relative, and at most, can merely point to the Absolute. That explains why some branches of theology use the apophatic method of discerning The Infinite (“neti neti”, [not this, not that], in Sanskrit). Also known in Latin as “via negativa” or “via negationis” theology, this philosophical approach to discovering the essential nature of Reality, gradually negates each description about Ultimate Reality, but not Reality Itself. Ultimate Reality (“Brahman”, in Sanskrit [from “bṛh” - lit. “Expansion”, in English]) alone is real - “real” in the sense that it is the never-mutable substratum of ALL existence. The wisest of the philosophers of ancient India distinguished the “real” from the “unreal” (“sat/asat”, in Sanskrit) by whether or not the “thing“ was eternal or ephemeral (cf. Bṛhadāraṇyaka Upaniṣad 1:3:28, Bhagavad-gītā 2:16, et altri). Gross material objects (such as one's own body) and subtle material objects (such as thoughts) are always changing, and therefore not “real”. REALITY is clearly seen by those self-realized persons who have experienced spiritual awakenings (which occur either spontaneously, or after a gradual process over many months or years), yet only intellectually understood by those who have merely studied spiritual topics (that is, those who have practiced one of the four systems of religion described in Chapter 16, but have yet to awaken to their essential nature). “If you remain as you are now, you are in the wakeful state. This is abolished in the dream state. The dream state disappears, when you are in deep sleep. The three states come and go, but you are always there. Your real state, that of Consciousness itself, continues to exist always and forever and it is the only Reality.” ************* “The ego is the identified consciousness. When the impersonal Consciousness identifies itself with the personal organism, the ego arises.” ************* “The only true meditation is the constant impersonal witnessing of all that takes place in one’s life as mere movements in the universal Consciousness.” ************* “Consciousness must first be there, before anything else can BE. All inquiry of the seeker of truth, must therefore, relate to this consciousness, this sense of conscious presence, which as such, has no personal reference to any individual.” ************* “Insofar as you keep watching the mind and discover yourself as its witness, nothing else can project itself on the screen of consciousness. This is so, because two things cannot occupy the attention, at the same moment.Therefore, delve within and find out where thoughts arise. Seek the source of all thought and acquire the Self-knowledge, which is the awakening of Truth.” ************* “Just as the difference between the space in a pot and the space outside it disappears when the pot is demolished, so also does duality disappear when it is realized that the difference between the individual consciousness and the Universal Consciousness does not in fact exist.” ************* “All there is, is consciousness. That is the Source from which the manifestation has come. ...And the mind is merely a reflection of that Consciousness.” ************* “All there is, is Consciousness, not aware of Itself in Its noumenal Subjectivity, but perceived by Itself as phenomenal manifestation in Its objective expression. If this is understood in depth, there is nothing more to be understood.” Ramesh S. Balsekar, Indian Spiritual Teacher. “As a man who has devoted his whole life to the most clearheaded science, to the study of matter, I can tell you as a result of my research about the atoms this much: There is no matter as such! All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particles of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent Spirit. This Spirit is the matrix of all matter.” ************* “I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness.” Max Karl Ernst Ludwig Planck, German Theoretical Physicist.

[@friendoengus]

@@SpiritualPsychotherapyServices just write a book

[@SpiritualPsychotherapyServices]

@@friendoengus It is considered to be poor etiquette for a person who is lower than even a slave to presume to instruct her MASTER, or to provide unsolicited advice to her superiors. Is that fully understood, SLAVE?

[@kos-mos1127]

@@SpiritualPsychotherapyServices Matter is fundamental and consciousness is derivative. Matter is amortal and cannot be destroyed. Matter can be transformed in nuclear processes but not destroyed. There is no such thing as no matter. There is no such thing as no Cosmos. People have fallen into the trap of misplaced concreteness when it comes to consciousness by giving substance and causal power. Consciousness means the state of knowing. Consciousness needs a substrate in order to exists and that substrate is matter. Matter must first be there before anything else can be. The reason why I perceive an I am that never changes is because the structures of my body have changed and there is a continuity of brain activity. Damage the brain enough and I AM fades away like it was never there. That is why after meditating I realized that all terms such as The Absolute and Ultimate Reality were philosophical nonsense. The Cosmos is the Boundless Infinitude that contains all finite entities. The entities that we made up like Jesus, God, Allah, Brahman, The Ultimate and Absolute are man's attempt to bind the Boundless by assigning human attributes and motivations to the Cosmos.

[@SpiritualPsychotherapyServices]

@@kos-mos1127 It is considered to be poor etiquette for a person who is lower than even a slave to presume to instruct her MASTER, or to provide unsolicited advice to her superiors. Is that fully understood, SLAVE?