Peter Hammill- The Lie (REACTION//DISCUSSION)

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Song Link: • The Lie (bernini's St ...

[@davidchaplain6748]

Wow! Where has this been all my life? Thanks for turning me onto this, Justin.

[@JustJP]

Happy to David!

[@drob281159]

Saw Peter as a solo act in Quebec City back in '78. He opened with The Lie. Powerful concert.

[@ramoncardinali]

This album is his masterpiece imo.

[@markmaxwell1013]

Definitely!

[@abdulalhazred6328]

In camera tops it

[@Eduardo-Ferreira1982]

And when Justin will listen, we will all assure he listens to one lp side each time. For it's impossible to conceive listening, at least, the final three tracks separately. Justin, make sure you listen "The Comet, the course, the tail", "Gog" and "Magog" in a row. We'll talk then.

[@marijanbrkic4875]

@@abdulalhazred6328 Gog-Magog is pure insanity! One of the heaviest darkest prog rock epics ever!

[@williamwilkes9873]

Prog...,,.,an insult. No poseurs, FANX.

[@claremccowan4049]

I lost my brother Ross to Covid in January 2021. He would have loved your content and I get such a connection to his spirit when I listen to your playlists. Ross loved music and introduced me to Peter Hammill in the 1970's when I was a teenager. He was an amazing big brother and lived his live his way. Thank you, I am so happy I have found you.

[@outernothingness1177]

So sad to hear this. But, people listening to Peter Hammill tend to live their lives their way, and they're usually all the better for it. So, usually, are the people around them. God rest his soul.

[@jelk1188]

No vocalist in prog has the expressive span as Hammill does: whispers, talk, growls, screeches, screams, heavenly falsetto; to quote Robert Fripp: He did for vocals what Hendrix did for the guitar.

[@klaashalma8572]

Great choice JP. I've known this song for ages now and it's still going strong. I even play parts of it on my piano and strangely enough it isn't even that difficult to do. But the vocals though... A completely different story. Anyway, The Lie is a masterpiece of its own. Wanna try? Just play a D minor on your keys and start singing. Good luck!

[@grahamkey8496]

As a Hammill fan of 40 years I'd say this is one of his best songs from his best album, and I've learned something new about its origins from you today.

[@martinpaterson6535]

Wonderful reaction from you again, and why I have kept begging you to listen to Hammill's solo work from the mid-1970s at least. I'm going to see VDGG in Edinburgh in a couple of weeks, the first time in forty-five years. Really excited about that!

[@lemming9984]

I'm seeing them in Bath on March 1st. Equally excited.

[@AlexandreBorcic]

just realise this you all, i know this song from my 14 years old in 1973, when singing the lie, sreaming this sustained note that seems to make an entire cathedral to rumble, i swear i feel my tears coming to my eyes, ...even after more than 50 years !!!!!!!

[@bjornjagerlund3793]

I would recommend ”In the black room” from Chameleon in the shadow of the night. It’s a great VdGG song hidden in that PH solo album. A masterpiece.

[@williamwilkes9873]

"ln the end", seems appropriate..........our brilliant leaders are aiming to oblivion...,........ignoring us......we are simply human.....,...they must find it hard to drag their EGOS from bed...........poor, pathetic Creeps!

[@andreasberten764]

... hi JP, going from VdGG to PH solo. you're opening Pandora's box ;-) - go on, I love it ! ...

[@ricardojosegomez600]

I really like this song, along with modern, forsaken gardens and of course a louse. I'm really surprise you haven't reacted to in the black room / the tower

[@Eduardo-Ferreira1982]

I always say this: despite the poor quality (it can harm your ears), I think that suite is better on the "Time Vaults" version, a demo/studio session. You have that phantasmagoric side of it by the sax and flutes echoes that somehow got lost in the way to the album version. Try it if you haven't listen to it yet.

[@Warloo100]

What a great song, what a reaction, thank you for that. I was very forunate getting introduced to PH / VdGG when I was about 17 years of age about 45 years ago and the accompanied me up to this date. I really do admire Mr. Hammill's lyrics and performance since first hearing.

[@Rael_486]

I would like to request (On Tuesdays She Used to Do) Yoga. It's from the album Over that tells the story of a break up. The way only Peter Hammil can.

[@sylvanm4216]

Given that Over is really (I guess with the exception of "Autumn") a continuous song cycle , it might be a good album for Justin to tackle in his "long song Saturday" format.

[@abdulalhazred6328]

my top hammill solo albums : in camera, chameleon, silent corner. I discovered hammill/VDGG in the early 70s at a live concert in amsterdam.and after that saw them live whenever I could.. No other artist had a greater impact on me since.

[@abdulalhazred6328]

I forgot to mention 'Over'

[@sylvanm4216]

When I hear this song, I think of little Peter in Catholic school, desperate to feel that holy ecstasy St Teresa described, and never having it, and becoming more and more disillusioned. Interesting that you did this song and "Childlike Faith" in such close succession. Two tracks that take a *very* different approach to the idea of the search for faith in something greater. In both songs, I think Hammill concludes that he will never get to have that kind of beyond-human experience for himself. But the vibe is quite different!

[@prelude5116]

Peter Hammill has amazing solo albums. You should definitely react to in the Black Room or Gog

[@williamwilkes9873]

Love it,...,,,,,...,..Peter took us to church...,,..,..,.,,,if only!….…..…

[@eeeboytvr]

Exactly... an intoxicating lie 👍

[@williamwilkes9873]

@@eeeboytvr Everything is shrouded in LIES........!

[@pianocovers4227]

Hi Justin ! You've just touched the Ultimate Powerful Love Scream ! I was cryin' with you ! Please, Listen to the whole album ! PH is The Only One !

[@markspooner1224]

Bloody marvelous album, full marks!

[@catherinestreet5377]

I believe Hammill attended a Jesuit boarding school, (Repton in Derbyshire Uk) but became disillusioned with its teachings, and with religion - in his later perspective, it not providing the absolute truth and certainty he’d been taught it did. Hence The Lie - an incredibly powerfully delivered song. One can pick up aspects of this disillusionment and loss of certainty in life reflected in the lyrics of many of his songs around this time. BTW Ronald Dahl also attended the same school !

[@catherinestreet5377]

Roald - curse autocorrect! Lol

[@hubertvancalenbergh9022]

@@catherinestreet5377 A nearly forgotten master. I'll never forget "The Sound Machine".

[@markmaxwell1013]

As I understand it singing in the choir is is how he trained his voice to be so versatile.

[@Eduardo-Ferreira1982]

One aspect of this (as well in Maedieval) is that when Peter does that angelic voice you can bet he was in a church choir.

[@hubertvancalenbergh9022]

@@Eduardo-Ferreira1982 He once stated that he wanted to do with his voice what Hendrix did with his guitar.

[@halyomorpha]

From 1971 to 1988, I think Hammill's solo work is impeccable. And even after that it's pretty solid. My personal favorite is Enter K, but this album is undeniable.

[@josdurkstraful]

Thank you JP... that was great.

[@DaniloJovem]

This lyrics always sounded very mysterious to me! Thank you justin!!

[@uapuat]

Absolutely no-one can deliver a song like Peter Hammill. I don't think anyone else could sing that song - I can't imagine anyone else writing it - and I can't imagine Hammill singing nice little pop songs. He is completely unique.

[@vdggmouse9512]

Hamill does have 2 albums where he'd describe his work as just nice pop songs - Fool's Mate (1970) and Nadir's Big Chance (1975).

[@Pstephen]

@@vdggmouse9512 Neither - by design - a typical Hammill album, though.

[@vdggmouse9512]

Can't let my spelling error go - Hammill. Both of those albums are the best to introduce new listeners to Hammill. That has been my experience. I love them all!

[@benjisandoval5640]

That was like adding an extra shot of caffeine in my coffee!!! Love this channel for exposing so many great gems! Have an awesome day all!

[@JustJP]

☕

[@gaiaeternal5131]

Hi JP. DP from UK. So, you Turn To Stone for this excellent track. Not really a fan of Peter's voice, but there's no doubting his dramatic, impassioned delivery of this thought-provoking song. Bernini is one of those precious few sculptors who really bring the subject to life. I've seen this work several times in the Santa Maria della Vittoria church in Rome and the expression on Theresa's face has to be seen in the 'flesh' to be believed. Some other brilliant Bernini sculptures are in the Villa Borghese museum, also in Rome. Love the way this song moved you, Justin - isn't that the magic of music! P.S. my song ref Turn To Stone is by ELO.

[@BertusMartial]

Cette chanson me hante depuis bientôt 50 ans, je suis même aller visiter Santa Maria della Vittoria.

[@Orielzolrak]

The sculpture of Santa Teresa is in the church of Santa Maria della Vittoria. This sculpture is incredibly beautiful, I recommend searching in a search engine, the details of the sculpture are exquisite. But what is amazing is her body and her face that caused and continues to cause a very strong discussion about that ecstasy that Santa Teresa lives, that many art critics, art historians, etc. they see an intense orgasm. For this reason, this marvelous work comes with the unknown that Santa Teresa really felt.

[@markmaxwell1013]

Interesting choice. Great review! PH has such a vast solo catalog it is hard to choose.

[@hubertvancalenbergh9022]

I recommend "Fogwalking" from Black Box.

[@lemming9984]

...and Flight, and Golden Promises, and Losing Faith in Words, and The Spirit.....hell, the whole album is superb.....

[@hubertvancalenbergh9022]

@@lemming9984 "I don't know why I bother, but I'm bothered." (Losing Faith in Words)

[@Elvin_Pelvin]

Thank you Justin - good choice and as always your analysis of the lyrics adds a greater / deeper dimension to the review. Music is my prime interest but when lyrics have so much about them they can elevate the music - even sometimes music outside your normal interest - even styles of music you wouldn't think you could possibly ever like (I don't know - off the top of my head 'Wham!' - 'Young Guns Go For It' ha ha ha). I prefer early VDGG era to their later stuff and to Peter Hammill solo stuff but if anyone can make strumming away at an acoustic guitar or plonking on a piano gripping Peter Hammill is the one. This whole LP is strong - I rediscovered it a year ago - it passes the test of time.

[@slackdude1]

Took me a few years to find this album. It was out of print and rare when I was a teenager. Found it when I was 21. Specialty shop selling off private collection. Not a perfect album but peerless singing and writing. This is it for sure.

[@snowdog87]

Peter is the box of chocolates You never know what you're gonna get But it will be dark brutally honest and from the deep recesses of HammilSoul

[@neilparnell5712]

Congratulations. You have just coined a new genre - ''HammillSoul'' - sure beats saying it's not Prog. Now we know what it is - ''HammillSoul''

[@PaulMDove2]

Maybe I let my own feelings influence me too much when thinking about Peter's lyrics, but this and other songs give me the impression that his childhood left him with a distrust, possibly even hatred, of organised religion. But also a drive to find spirituality and belief in himself and the world. A poet and a philosopher who deserves a much bigger audience.

[@claudevaillancourt3574]

One need to know that Hammill was educated for ten years in his youth by the Jesuits where he was also a choirboy. He is disillusioned catholic, but even turning atheist or agnostic, you are marked for life by catholicism.

[@chrisbreeze1281]

You really get it.

[@JustJP]

Thanks Chris :)

[@abdulalhazred6328]

I recommend 2 more solo albums by PH: "In camera" and "Over"

[@jfergs.3302]

As a stand alone, here and now, this's pretty dour, and depressing. But then it's seldom party time with PH... I do remember loving this album though, BITD, but haven't heard it in an age. Well, I say album, I've actually got it on cassette, it's in the attic. Oh, and I've no cassette player at the mo, it broke a good while ago. Likely an album best heard whole.

[@Rowenband]

Nice to see you come back to Hammill's solo works. Hammill's voice here gives me again goosebumps ! Religion is a big part in Hammill's themes. Listen to Mediaevil… an accapella song ! I think Hammill is against religions and the kind of believes that get with them.

[@neilparnell5712]

Mediaevil is classic Hammill - against organised religion and oppression of the masses by the media, the rich and / or powerful. ''Lemmings'' from ''Pawn Hearts'' is a classic example of this, but also slightly different in that it ends on a hopeful note. Most of Peter's songs on these themes are not so optomistic.

[@Rowenband]

@@neilparnell5712 You are to correct about “organised religion and oppression”. He is not simply against believes…

[@neilparnell5712]

Thank you. I have always been a Hammill addict because i really like his balanced viewpoints even when he clearly has an axe to grind. Far more thought provoking than just a straightforward attack on a subject. There I go again - I never tire of listening to or talking about Peter and VdGG !@@Rowenband

[@jerkedevries]

"with my body and soul": a quote from State of Independence by Jon/Vangelis. Reminds me theme-wise of this great track

[@luizaesoares3190]

Try to see live video on Swiss TV 1974. Only Peter and piano.

[@outernothingness1177]

I think that's the longest silence before you start speaking after a finished track that I've ever seen on the channel. Guess that's saying something. :-)

[@Eduardo-Ferreira1982]

Yeah, the reaction could only be that. It should be at the same level of the song. And it is. Never disappointing us, Justin. Obrigado!!

[@JustJP]

It took me a bit to gather myself :)

[@Eduardo-Ferreira1982]

The Power you get is the power you have to get the power the song has.

[@olemartinsen9733]

I think this is one of the most powerful tracks in popular music…. So is Peters The End track! Peter is truly a totally unique vocalist, and a master of emotional expression!

[@Eduardo-Ferreira1982]

In The End is one of my favorite tracks. Notice that creativity and ability to astound us is proportional of his unusual kind of songs. Take for instance "Modern", or "German Overalls (just to mention open album tracks) - how can he do it? He doesn't need percussion at all to create such a vibrating sound. And he had Evans right away, if he needed!

[@-davidolivares]

Thought the track, well done, powerful, the questioning lyrics in search of devotion, not sure he’ll ever get his answer. Pain of knowing may be a pleasure beyond our capability at our present state. That’s where faith comes in. Fripp’s Exposure is a great album especially, full sides. Jus sayin. You got your Daryl Hall, you got your Peter Gabriel, you got your Peter Hammill, the fabulous Terre Roche and more. More, like Eno, Levin, Collins, Barry Andrews from early XTC, etc. This album had hard beginnings, and led to the wonderful 80s incarnation of King Crimson/ Discipline. Pluuueeeeze do this album. Peace and Bernini Music

[@markspooner1224]

We've both been exposed to Exposure, does that mean we're developed?

[@lemming9984]

I bought Exposure mainly for the three tracks Hammill does vocal on, but it's a good album overall.

[@-davidolivares]

@@lemming9984 Think I have it on lp twice, cassettes twice, CD once and probably dubbed it to 8track maybe.

[@Eduardo-Ferreira1982]

Me too. A bit like "Red" with Hammill-kind violent approach.

[@DaniloJovem]

The album In Camera have nice songs to react, like Faint Heart and The Sermon, The Comet Course and Tail and Gog of course! Please, keep reacting to Peter Hammill!

[@therealtwiggyleaf]

Thanks for covering this song, Justin. I have always preferred much of PH's solo stuff to VdGG. From this album, I also think you will enjoy "Home is not a Louse", but it is a bit of a dark psychological song for most people, even me. Personally, I prefer "Modern"; but there are several great songs from this album, as well as PH7, Black Box, The Future Now, Sitting Targets and Patience. 😎

[@TrevRockOne]

More Peter Hammill is always good

[@Eduardo-Ferreira1982]

Oh, Justin. I waited for so long a reaction of yours on a solo Hammill song... What took you so long? I understand that this is not an everyday job. On the other hand, I feel you came in the right moment, with some VDGG on your collection (just missing that "Giant Squid" and "Octopus" from their first album... :p ) so this can be well welcomed to your sensibility. Your reaction said it all. By the way, perhaps my favorite reaction so far. "You're my favorite / You're the one that I love", as Hammill sings. AHAH

[@JustJP]

Ty Eduardo, its an amazing song! Ive done a few other songs from Hammills solo material, all good stuff!

[@Eduardo-Ferreira1982]

(whispering) I know... But, I insist, don't you dare listening In Camera without us! I (we) want to see how you react at those last three tracks! 😀😀😄

[@kenl2091]

Strange track to chose this early in your exploration of PH's solo career. It might have been suggested by some fans but I doubt if it's in any top 20 tracks list. I suspect that those fans wanted to hear your reaction to the strongly anti-religious lyrics. It's a powerful piece with nice churchy organ but there's at least 3 better on this album. (Modern, Red Shift, Louse - you've done that one) No doubt the same fans are clamouring for Gog/Magog (I think I was one of them!) but that shouldn't be attempted without a long run-up (i.e. at least 20 other tracks beforehand)

[@Rowenband]

I tend to agree with you, but from the voice performance point of view, this is one of the best. Hammill's discography is so large… depending on which fan you ask, there will be at least 40-50 great songs that would be chosen.

[@kenl2091]

@@Rowenband You're quite right. My top 10 (today and today only) would include Faculty X, Modern, Flight, Ferret and Featherbird, (OTSUTD) Yoga, A Motorbike in Afrika, any live version of Stranger Still, Architecture, Primo on the Parapet and Something about Ysabel's Dance but I doubt if any but Flight would be in most people's list!

[@lemming9984]

@@kenl2091 Flight would definitely be in my list, and also a live version of Stranger Still. I've seen PH perform this live many times, always delivers! One song that would not be on my PH playlist is Curtains! I always found it cringeworthy for some reason, and he often performed it live..

[@Rowenband]

@@kenl2091 Good choice, I like it. I would choose (today and only today !) The Noise, Stranger STill, Been alone so Long, Betrayed, Patient, Just Good Friends, The Future Now, Mediaevil, Architecture (YES that one for sure, every day) and Sea of Memories. I don't know what you think about his latest albums. I'm a bit disappointed.

[@vdggmouse9512]

@@kenl2091 Primo, Vision, Empress's Clothes, Losing Faith In Words, Porton Down, In The End, Forsaken Gardens, Happy Hour, Sci-Finance (Revisited), Faint Heart And The Sermon, Open Your Eyes -

[@webkahmik]

WELL DONE, well done. You feel it, you hear it, you get it. A key to Hammill is that he was educated by the Christian Brothers (Jesuits), as was Salvador Dali, and the echoes ring and hover, and interpenetrate their arts.

[@qtpwqt]

I have seen him do this live .

[@Eduardo-Ferreira1982]

Now, let me say that, obc, listening this on headphones is not the same as listening it through a stereo hi-fi. The room makes all the difference in the ears. But this is a good version, for I forgot or didn't pay attention on the echo that it has.

[@bjornjagerlund3793]

Most of my friends can’t stand Peters vocals. Even I have problems with it sometimes. It’s a shame, because I love his music and thinks that he, as a composer, is a genius.

[@Eduardo-Ferreira1982]

I love his voice, but I understand some won't like it. Hammill created that multilayered voice soundscape in his 78 onwards that I sometimes get a bit tired of. But I love Hammill, don't worry guys. Nothing and no one will surpass him in pop-rock music (pardon me this categorization).

[@lemming9984]

Great album. Not an easy-listener, but great!!

[@kevinonearth1]

You need to listen to "In Camera", "Chameleon In The Shadow Of The Night", and "Nadir's Big Chance"!

[@Eduardo-Ferreira1982]

My first vinyl was - I chose it for the year, my birth year - Enter K. Besides the affection I might have about that album, one must be surprized by the incomon pop-rock he was doing at that time. Hammill is great!

[@kuhnhan]

Ad nauseam. That cracked me up.

[@claudevaillancourt3574]

You should do Gog from In Camera, after god, or its non existence, the devil...

[@neilparnell5712]

Gog to me seems to be about an omnipotent being, neither specifically good or evil who needs your allegiance but in return offers nothing that you need / wish for. Possibly an allegory on organised religions supposed heavenly payoff being at a price and unguaranteed.

[@maruad7577]

I prefer this to any VDGG I have heard so far which is odd as usually it is the vocals I find jarring with VDGG... unless it is Marillion I am thinking of. hmmm. Oh well, Lost Ark launches in just under 3 hours so I have the rest of my day planned out. Have a great day folks... cya again tomorrow.

[@lemming9984]

Marillion/VdGG. Fish was a big PH fan so there's a connection!

[@vdggmouse9512]

Welcome to the world of Peter Hammill. You've got a lot of catching up to do - like 40 years or so. Good luck.

[@Eduardo-Ferreira1982]

Ahah, absolutely right, for he's an artist that worths, since the begining till now.

[@markmaxwell1013]

Nick and Lex finally did a reaction to VdGG.

[@vdggmouse9512]

@@markmaxwell1013 thx Mark.

[@markmaxwell1013]

@@vdggmouse9512 I kind of gave up on them when Nick pronounced Rush the only perfect prog band a few weeks ago during a Yes review. He has barely dipped his toe in the ocean of prog and pronounced one band untouchable so I skipped my obligatory rant on Geddy Lee's voice and only discovered this because of notifications. JP seems is at the top of the list of the few young people who will even hear much less understand VdGG/PH. That long contemplative silence after Still Life and The Lie. THAT is the face of someone who really absorbed the music and LYRICS and was trying to grasp the enormity of it. That was my face when I grasped the enormity of what VdGG/PH were doing. Most die hard VdGG/PH fans went through that at some point.

[@vdggmouse9512]

@@markmaxwell1013 I kinda sensed Nick was lost - but Lex looked like she was totally into it. Her face looked like she had 'got it.' I guess I was wrong. Plus they NEVER EVEN SAID ANYTHING ABOUT THE LYRICS.

[@keithbk]

Peter Hammill? Is that Mark's deadbeat brother?

[@sicko_the_ew]

Another way of hearing it is as an "angel's eye point of view" of the events? And at times there's outright contempt in the angel's voice. Maybe it's one of those angels that shouts "More" when the last hymn is sung, even. Very dramatic song, anyway. So operatic in the things that matter most, then. Funny how different people can hear it differently. (Good people hear goodness, but evil people like meself bwaahhhahahaha hear malice and menace.) And maybe, then, there's a third party to this, not seen in the one experience, not directly reported on in the outsider experience (since with this, those feelings of ecstacy never occur)? A third party who has an erection (plain, simple old erection) in church, in anticipation of what's about to happen. I like your version better, but I heard darker suggestions in that voice. Anyway, no humans were harmed in the making of this story in either case, nê?

[@tesseract5529]

Probably my favourite Hammill song. Check out his live performance here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/f37bgJebg7CXjrM At just before the 3:00 mark you may have an epiphany

[@Eduardo-Ferreira1982]

This recent upload is a treasure! I was astounded to notice that it existed. Hammill live solo performances are out of the this world and that one captures him at his top phase. I got his Skeletons of Songs bootleg just to have a piano only live performances from that Era, though some recordings appeared later on his album reissues. But still not official released. It's a 78 concert in a USA church, I can't remember which right now. What a perfect place to catch heaven and hell in / through one individual.

[@michaelnicholls9532]

I listen to a lot of different types of music, most of the accepted classic "best albums of all time" and yes they are good, but nothing, absolutely nothing, comes within a galaxy of the The Silent Corner and the Empty Stage. It pisses me off so much that this album is not lauded as the best album of all time. To me it is....easily

[@williamwilkes9873]

Religion?..............yeh?....………....…