Anti-hustle culture is brainwashing you.

[@PopcornEmma]

As someone with a chronic illness who can’t work, I think a lot of people would gain a lot from looking at energy management techniques and pacing. it’s not just about resting when you run out of energy, it’s about finding what activities give you more energy, looking at what type of energy you’re using and switching between them (e.g. switching between physical, mental, emotional and social activities), taking time to take care of yourself before you absolutely have to.

[@PopcornEmma]

also seeing as working hard literally makes me sick, I have discovered that not doing anything that I feel passionate about, not working towards anything, is super duper depressing. creative hobbies are a godsend.

[@mnickrowe]

I have heard that before in terms of using the method of pacing (specifically within the disabled and chronically ill communities of course). I’d love to hear from you what you have found when it comes to switching between physical, mental, emotional and social ? I’ve never thought about knowing when to switch between them you do hear a lot about what falls under the categories and picking which activities you find personal enjoyment and fulfilment from. Hope this wasn’t too rambly and my question makes sense

[@lizmary8207]

do you have any media for someone who would be interested in pursuing what you are suggesting?

[@kimw5199]

Sounds like you have M.E. 👀 same here! Hope you're managing. It's like the ultimate course in energy management. The amount of things people do to use energy up that they take for granted.

[@LisEibh]

Oh my gosh, I totally agree! It's so rare I engage in activities that excite me that I get genuinely surprised by how energized I feel. It's so easy to forget that as an adult you need more than just working, watching TV, scrolling socials and sleep, we need to find things that are fun and therapeutic e.g. art/pottery, dance, music or whatever motivates us ☺️

[@Minnigirl1]

for me hustle culture is people constantly telling me i need to profit from my crafts. I spend a shit tonn of my time knitting BECAUSE I LIKE IT. and people are constantly "you should sell those, have you thought of selling those, you could make side money selling those" and spoiler alert i never fucking will, the dollars i could make is not worth draining all the fun out of my crafts

[@cecilie...]

Yeah, I had similar experiences! It drives me up the wall to be honest. Like no, I won't monetize my fun time!

[@vcp365]

This is me with my sewing! 😡 No, I don’t want to make blouses or dresses for 10 different friends and family members thank you very much. I just tell people I don’t sew/craft for profit these days. I used to feel bad, but I reckoned they don’t feel bad expecting me to make things for them, so… 😂 👀

[@laurenlovesstories]

Yes! I write fiction (lots of fanfic usually) for fun and to relax and the amount of people who tell me to write a book and sell it to become a real author is annoying. Would that be nice? Sure, but it's not something I am particularly interested in pursuing right now. Just let people enjoy their hobbies please!

[@soulsworn13]

I'm entirely a fan of people being able to sell the outcomes of their personal hobbies as means of offloading the excess creations and funding more materials for said hobby. But the pressure to do commissions within a set timeframe and be meeting a demand for enough product isn't anywhere near as fun as leisurely doing what you want, when you want and maybe posting some things online or booking a spot at a local artist market or luggage rummage every so often (or in your case not at all)

[@alethearia]

This. So much this. And nobody is going to pay for the cost of materials let alone for all the labor you put into it. I make a shirt, that shirt is worth $200 just for my labor and cost of materials. Nobody is going to pay $200 for my shirts.

[@meryl5496]

The part of antihustle culture and the 4-day workweek that i agree with is it allows for more richness and possibility for those activities that energize us. For example, long hikes on the weekends or volunteering for a cause you believe in. For those of us with office jobs at larger companies working less allows us for more time for joy and quests that we have our hearts in. I enjoy your criticism of the movement but I think its lacking in the acknowledgement that working less at a bs job gives time for the side adventures that truly make our lives meaningful.

[@Scarlett-nu8gh]

Man I want to start volunteering on top of my 4 day week but I work in an exhausting and poorly paid job so I need that extra day off just to keep going. It's a struggle financially but it means I have the time/energy to look after myself. I think there's an element of ableism in the mix that needs to be addressed

[@EnaGoba]

I feel like she did acknowledge that. Or maybe I just inferred it from what she'd said lol. But yeah I agree

[@jessapuff]

I think important vocab to add to this discussion would be “leisure”. To me, the pandemic made it impossible not to see the terrifying reality in the US (and elsewhere) that you can work for 40+ hours a week and still not survive- your employer nor the government cares about your life. When you talk about working hard on the things that bring you peace, say writing a story or creating a song, those are the leisure activities that I think humanity as a whole should have more access to and turned to when they realized that work was no longer a top priority. My issue is that even if I escape capitalism even partly and incorporate more leisure activities that make me feel fulfilled, how am I supposed to enjoy a modicum of peace while I see folks out here STRUGGLING? I think that’s why hustle culture is the problem, it doesn’t seek to change the institutions that make one feel inclined to work against their own physical and mental health just ti survive.

[@gingerprice9221]

I love this insight. I think the inclusion of systems in relation to hustle culture is such a valuable, productive point. I think that the premise of hustle culture is inherently self centric (I wouldn't say selfish, because I know many people who rely on their side hustles to simply pay the bills for an incredibly moderate lifestyle) in a way that makes individuals feel like they can attain what they want (and maybe even in the way that they want; I know a lot of people who have monetized hobbies thinking it'd be fun only to feel drained by their hobbies as a result) without having to engage in the kinds of corporate and professional reforms we need.

[@gamewrit0058]

For me, burnout hasn't been being unable to achieve The Ideal, but to just keep up with The Bare Minimum to be considered successful or financially independent

[@kathrynquinnstreeter4238]

This has absolutely been my experience. Keeping up with staying alive and having a place to live, food to eat, and being independent has me completely spent.

[@yahudki9020]

yes omg. where Leena said 'it is okay to live a life where you just work a little bit and then relax' i was like ??? i have not heard of any jobs or people unless they're already super rich who could 'work a little bit' and still be able to afford even the bare necessities. i think this is where this feeling of collective depression and discouragement comes from.

[@davelewis8270]

It's amazing how many wealthy people there are mistaking entitlement for intelligence

[@TheGFeather]

I spent my first 10 years out of uni as an elementary classroom teacher. It was a career path I had put myself on from about age 12 and I did a number of teaching adjacent things along the way that had me feeling confident in the path I was on. My first few years working were challenging, but rewarding. I loved what I was doing, and I invested a great deal of my time and energy into being a really good teacher. I spent a few hours at the end of each teaching day getting my classroom back in order and ready for the next day. I spent weekends planning and prepping activities and materials for my classroom. On summer holidays, I'd keep my eyes out for great children's literature to build lessons around. And for the most part, I got a great deal of satisfaction out of it. I think I was a pretty good teacher. However, the system I was working in has a tendency to suck people dry. Instead of getting easier the more experienced I got, the demands from administrators and parents became increasingly untenable. Everyday became a grind, but the work culture surrounding me was always do more, don't take sick days, don't have a life outside of the classroom. I had major surgery, and was back at work in a week, not because my contract didn't allow for time off, but because my principal boasted about only taking two days off for gall bladder surgery. Everyone treated time off like a personal failing. I had surgery at the end of October, and struggled my way to Christmas hols. In the new year, I lasted 3 weeks before having a total breakdown. My doctor put me on medical leave for 6 weeks and I tried to put myself back together. And so at the end of that school year, I decided not to renew my contract. I had no idea what I was going to do, but to anyone who asked, I told them I'd flip burgers if I couldn't figure out anything else. I ended up waiting tables at the local bakery for a year. All I had to do was turn up on time, do the job I was paid for, and leave at the end of the shift. It was a complete novelty to me and changed the way I thought about having a job. Throughout my teaching career, I had always been doing private music lessons, and when I wasn't perpetually exhausted from all the extra hours I was expected to put in at the school, I had the chance to grow my music studio. In the 9 years since then, I've had various stints with outside employment, some I've liked more than others, but I flipped the narrative. I was a musician with a day job, not someone who taught music in their spare time. Sometimes I can rely on just my students and performance gigs, and sometimes I need additional sources to bolster my finances. The one thing I decided after that first year out of teaching was that I would never take a full time job again. I've made adjustments to my life that have allowed me to keep to a max 4 day work week, and it's made a huge difference. I'm not resentful of the time I spend working anymore. During times when I have big projects going on, I can throw myself into them completely, knowing that on the other side of that project I'll be back to something completely sustainable, not perpetually teetering on the brink. The first time I was entirely self employed, I did experience some challenges in keeping focussed. And every summer when my studio goes on hiatus because summer lessons don't fit with most people's lives, I find the first couple weeks a struggle not fall too deep into rest mode. But on the whole I don't think I work less hard than I used to. I just work differently. To an outside observer it might not look that way because my regular work hours are when most people are done work and school. I have space to get into hyperfocus mode and spend 14 hours a day deep in a creative project. I have space to come down off that kind of an intense project and not do anything work related outside of lesson time. The thing I see with both the pro and anti sides of hussle culture is the lack of moderation, along with the really skewed definition of 'self care' that gets perpetuated. Self care can be a spa day, but it can also be spending a day running errands during regular business hours instead of needing to rush frantically during a lunch break or end of shift. Self care and self indulgence aren't the same thing, just like hard work and over work aren't the same.

[@eline6731]

Thank you for sharing your yourney, it really resonated with me 💕

[@wendytran6405]

Thank you for taking the time to write this and sharing your experience, it's very interesting!

[@taradreams3]

As a current elementary teacher, I completely agree with what you said about the pressures of the job. In the U.S. where I live, teachers are expected to do a lot of unpaid labor, like grading and lesson prep on weekends, and planning or setting up your room over the summer. Parents expect you to be reachable at all hours of the day. It really clicked for me one day when I confronted my principal about paying me extended hours for a day that she had asked me to come in and do some work over the summer. I explained to her that if my boss specifically requests that I come in to work, I expect to get paid for it. She blinked at me, obviously confused, and said "but we're doing it for the children." In essence, teachers are expected to be martyrs who sacrifice their leisure and self-care time because they love their students. I still enjoy teaching, and I enjoy it a lot more now that I have taken the pressure off myself to work unpaid hours. If I can't get it done during my prep time, I just don't do it. You would think that it makes me a less effective teacher, but in fact I still feel like I'm doing a good job. Kids are learning. If I don't have something graded right away, I tell them the truth: I just didn't have time. And they are fine with that.

[@alexh8716]

I'm curious about where you're seeing the "work less and do nothing else" version of anti-hustle culture rhetoric. Maybe it's because of where I'm positioned in the world/internet (pretty involved in movement/activism spaces) but that's not really something I've seen a lot. The anti-hustle culture rhetoric I've seen often encourages people to find things that are satisfying outside of work, to find ways of resting that are not just laying down or self care that is just throwing on a face mask and a bath. When I think if anti-hustle culture, I think the message I've seen the most is don't monetize everything you do. Your hobby can be for you, or you can take up a hobby or activity without planning to ever monetize it so you can let yourself be "bad" at something without worrying about the results.

[@dovestone_]

Yeah it’s not something I’ve come across at all

[@defense360]

Same here! I haven’t really seen the messaging that Leena discussed in this vid.

[@melissac8006]

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[@marygracedonaldson8346]

I’ve seen it all over (my side of) tiktok and KZbin. There was a trend of “I don’t dream of labor” videos by many KZbinrs last year and the term “quiet quitting” has been circulating a lot recently on tiktok. To me this video addresses a lot of that mindset

[@sallys.2707]

@@marygracedonaldson8346 but not dreaming of labor is not the same as what Leena address in this video 🤔. I don't dream of labor, I work purely because I need to, but I still have quests in my life and purposes. It's just not work.

[@NaomiHoefs]

Yeah we're gonna need more stories from your 97 year old grandmother who is traveling the world. I meaaaan life lessons with a French accent, yes please.

[@djenitals5180]

I honestly find a lot of meaning in anti hustle culture. I've been a tech worker for 4 years and I have burnt out so badly that I'm gonna slap my resignation down some time in the next few weeks and walk out. Nothing sounds more appealing than not doing shit.

[@Anilikedifranco]

congrats in advance !!! i hope this time for yourself gives you the mental rest you need, and allows you to pursue the things that satisfy you! take care

[@ayellowpapercrown6750]

That was a very interesting watch as someone who sincerely dislikes work and has absolutely no interest into working hard, having a quest or "trying". Working hard is a concept which I completely resent, but your discussion offered an entirely new perspective. When I talk about my relationship to work with friends and they asked what would I do without work, I say I would run, swim, read, write and garden all day. They always point out that it sounds like a lot of effort and work, and I always protest, as if it was an accusation. But maybe you’re right, some things demanding effort can be restful. But to be completely honest, I still cannot get myself to have a "purpose" or care about things passionately. The only things I care about are people, mostly those I know, but also those I don’t. I feel content in that fact. I don’t think I will ever have a purpose beyond running, swimming, reading, writing, gardening, and getting 10 hours of sleep each night.

[@twistinyourside]

We are like twins. If I had sufficient money, I’d never work again. I’ve had many different jobs and hated them all. It’s the concept of being somewhere I don’t want to be to survive. I hate it. Work does not give my life meaning.

[@AthynVixen]

wow we couldn't be more opposite :)

[@ayellowpapercrown6750]

@@twistinyourside glad to have someone to relate too haha! I often say my dream life is having a nice house under the Italian sun, with a big garden and close enough to the sea to go swim everyday. Some of my friends insist that I haven’t found the right job yet, but I doubt there is a single job out there that will ever make me want to do more than the bare minimum to earn my paycheck. I like my job well enough, but I don’t care for it. Good luck in life, I hope you get to spend some fulfilling time doing whatever you like along the way!

[@ayellowpapercrown6750]

@@AthynVixen and I think that’s super commendable! I have a lot of admiration for hardworking people. My closest friends are actually the most driven people I know! Good luck in life in your greater purpose!

[@Scarlett-nu8gh]

But for you to live this kind of lifestyle you would depend on the hard labour of thousands, millions of other people! Unless you were completely self sufficient, which takes a lot of work in itself. This ideal just isn't achievable unless you take more than you give to people/society/community

[@lauragibbons1951]

To me hustle culture is monetising everything you do. I can't work due to disability, but I still do work. And I work hard. But I don't get paid for that work. I work on the necessary things to keep my life liveable, chores etc and I gave hobbies that I love, like sewing which replenish me. I work really hard at both, I just have no money from doing either. I did have a crack at monetising my sewing but it drained me creatively. So for me, with the perspective I've got, hustle culture feels like you can't do anything without making money from it, or even posting content. I got really sucked into making content for Instagram and that too drained me creatively. Now I make for myself, I occasionally make for others as gifts and very rarely do some odd repair jobs for family and friends. I don't have a habit of documenting my makes, I just make them and enjoy them and to me that is anti hustle culture. I refuse my worth to be defined on how much money I can make from hustling, my worth is defined by me, my values and beliefs and just by being here on this earth. I think a lot of disabled people can relate to anti hustle culture because for us the rest and pacing is necessary.

[@KatzePiano]

All of the things you list as energising activities (jogging, doing a puzzle, reading, sewing, meeting people, learning) are things that - to my understanding - would be counted as leisure activities and *not* as hustle culture activities. In fact, you doing all of those things and not monetising them, not trying to squeeze every drop of capitalistic benefit from them, is *exactly* the thing anti-hustle culture is in favour of. Perhaps we have completely different understandings of these things, but your perspective really confused me for that reason. Striving for something in your free time is not the same as hustling. It's an energising thing, a restful thing, an exciting thing that has nothing to do with a capitalist work-ethic. A pro hustle culture person might see you doing those things and ask why you're not starting a new business or putting in extra hours at your job.

[@WeAllLovePineapples]

Perfectly said 💛

[@mariaathena7910]

EXACTLY

[@naahhhhHHHHHHHHHH]

People who want to become mega-rich self-correct for ethics, though. What social responsibility individual would want to become mega-rich in the first place as a actual goal? Also people who want to become mega-rich go after get-rich-quick(ish) schemes, (weird start-up ventures that they sell quickly while the idea is good, very little focus on employee well-being, forcing weird, long hours) which have dubious ethical practices. Not to mention whatever small advantages they had at the start of life. I get your criticism of the extreme version of anti-hustle stuff, but lots of us are completely removed from the output and have just bullshit jobs. few of us have the privilege of working on things that 'matter' in ANY way. it reminds me of that super bleak dystopia cartoon where a business man is talking to people around a campfire and says "yes, the planet got destroyed. but for a beautiful moment in time we created a lot of value for shareholders." sometimes I legitimately wonder if more than half of all mental health issues stem from childhoods taking place between 1989 - now. like yeah, our (white, healthy, relatively well-off) grandparents are doing great - they lived during a time of doing jobs that had 'purpose,' had actual community spaces (vs. weird, fake online stuff), and internalized values of moving around and working instead of feeling like literally everything you do is pointless, PLUS retirements that actually generated income, that they could live off of.

[@Carolina-uq2lx]

This

[@randomnessiskewel]

+

[@hmffffff]

Working for one's own self as a freelancer: it's such a vanishingly small percentage of people, it's not really a relevant consideration if you are working for the liberation of the working class. This whole conversation centers the emotional comfort of middle class knowledge workers. It's a fine conversation to have, but it's inaccurate to frame that conversation as resistance to capitalism.

[@eugeniapizarro9313]

Regarding getting rich, I think the context and personal history play an important role. I live in Latin America. Here, for many people, no matter how hard you work (and how much you ignore your community), unless you have a social network that opens the doors for you, you will never be rich. In most cases, you won't even have enough to get by.

[@chiaralinnea4335]

i am LOVING these controversial takes from you. You always bring in a different and intresting perspective

[@neraeid]

I really like what you're saying in this video about different people needing different things to nurture their energy. One of the biggest struggles for me with beginning freelance work (and subsequently realizing there's a good chance I have ADHD) was realizing that I can't work 8+ hours a day. Some days, I accidentally stare at the wall and do nothing when I had loads to do, and some days I can sit and write for 12 hours, but I can't push myself to average 40 hours a week like a "normal" job would have me do. Not everybody has the ability to do this, but it's been really freeing to let myself work and take breaks when my body and brain are good and ready to. And as a result of that, I haven't gotten burned out in the year that I've been self-employed, which is major for me because I used to burn out all the time in school and traditional jobs. So yeah, freelancing is hard in loads of its own ways, but I think the biggest plus for me has been that it lets me use my energy and focus in ways that allow me to still feel human at the end of the day.

[@rionasallyhartman8089]

I wouldn't consider what you're describing as having a quest as anything to do with hustle culture. Having a quest is all about intrinsic motivation, pursuing things you're passionate about and having a purpose but to me hustle culture is entirely tied to making money. It's the idea that you must be working hard at all times to to earn as much money as possible. The way I see it it's not the "working hard" part of hustle culture that's necessarily bad, it's that the goal of all that hard work is always money and external validation. Rejecting hustle culture is saying "it's ok not to want to work hard towards those goals" not "it's not ok to want to work hard"

[@littlestpineapple2898]

I think the larger criticism of work hides the fact that a lot of what we're criticizing is bullshit work. I have a lot of friends doing essentially meaningless jobs and a lot of our response as a culture has been to insist that there should be boundaries around these kinds of jobs (in part because they are so draining because they are pointless) rather than really working to abolish those jobs. When in fact pointless work should not exist. So much of it comes from this fear based, knee jerk obsession with preserving jobs whatever the value of them, instead of accepting that if technology has replaced the needs for certain jobs, then we should really just adjust our expectations of leisure and compensation and spread things around. Also, a lot of the really important jobs are vastly under resourced and understaffed anyway. (For ex. I'm a teacher in the US and I think our education system would be much better off if we had about twice as many teachers so pple had time to actually connect with students or build lessons to support their specific kids.) But I do feel like I see a lot of friends underestimating their need for purpose and productive work, not in the "getting things done" kind of way but in the "making meaningful change and sustaining communities" kind of way. And a lot of that comes from the fact that finding meaningful work that also pays the bills is really frickin' hard, but imo the problem isn't working its exploitative working practices and a societal tolerance for (and sometimes glorification of) pointless work.

[@elizabethroyerjohnson4992]

Yesss I totally agree with this. I think burnout can come from bad conditions in meaningful jobs, or from meaningless jobs - even if they have reasonably okay conditions .

[@Grrranola]

Bullshit Jobs is a really good book that talks about this a lot.

[@littlestpineapple2898]

@@Grrranola Yes! I almost mentioned it but my comment was already so long I gave up lol

[@emmeline-tyler]

I think what is happening in the anti-hustle culture you describe is that people are so tired that they can’t do anything other than rest to recover. I am thinking of someone coming home from working too hard and staring at the tv and or doomscrolling until they go to bed. If you’re that tired you don’t have the energy for replenishing leisure activities. I appreciated this contribution to the discourse!

[@proudveggie]

In my dull and unfulfilling office job, I flip-flop between "do the bare minimum, that's what they pay you for" and "while I'm here, I might as well do the best I can" - depending on my mood and my energy levels, I find that that sort of balances itself out. Interestingly, I always associate hustle culture with the side hustle you do alongside your main job, but that probably speaks to my detachment from the idea of a traditional 'career' and the fact that I only know one person who is actually invested in their job at all 😅

[@anna-ne9zk]

connected so much to this! right now i have an office job i'm not passionate about at all, BUT my job allows me flexibility in hours and allows me to work from home a couple days a week. these allowances let me take a bunch of dance classes to train for auditions, for a dance team i really want to get onto. i was a little confused about why i wasn't as bothered by having my meh job until now, and it's because my real quest is training for a dance team and becoming more ingrained in that community, and my job is just allowing me time and financial stability so i can go on my quest. makes so so much sense now, thank you Leena!

[@FatiguedButFabulous]

As someone with a disability and chronic illness, I find hustle culture to be toxic and abelist in general. Constantly ingesting messages about how our productivity and output dictates our worth can have a huge impact on someone who can't work, or who wants to work but faces so many barriers to employment. In the same vein, trying to reach your goals is a positive thing, so long as you're doing it to better your quality of life or because it's your passion, and telling people it's "uncool" to have goals and try to reach them just seems pretty immature to me. You got from putting your sense of worth in your output to putting it in other people's opinion of you, and neither seem like a good option!

[@responsibleregalia]

Leaning too far into anti-hustle culture, I got to a place where that if my friends/family needed help or wanted to hang out and I had to work, it was “bad” to say I had to work instead and that my work was “bad” for making me work. But then I would get behind on projects, and not execute on the level I want to execute on. Now I’ve realized it’s healthy to set boundaries with friends and family so that I can work and get what I need to done to get my little scraps of paper for my beans.

[@gamewrit0058]

It's a feature, not a bug, of capitalism to gain money, socioeconomic power, by exploiting others. Also, existing billionaires will prevent you from joining them.

[@eyesonindie]

My jaw has dropped because you have just released me from the guilt I feel when I am incapable of "relaxing." If I have a free hour, away from my job or my kid or chores (though, there are always chores), I'm going to spend it working on my fiction or another creative pursuit. That means no relaxing time. Ever. And that has always stressed me out... but...I'd rather be creating! So....why worry about it?? Mind. Blown.

[@isabbygabbyorcrabby]

I am the sort of person who would ideally get 9 hours sleep a night to feel great. My partner needs about 7 hours and if they get more they feel crappy! We are all different and as much as I wish I had those extra 2 hours in every day I have accepted that to feel healthy that is just what my body needs and I squeeze plenty of enjoyment and work into my 15 hours anyway! Life does not have to be all about maximising (whether that be hours worked, hours awake, money made etc.) Edit: just realised that this comment makes it sound like I disagree with your premise here. I don't, I really do think we just need more compassion for everyone. Being gung ho at either end of the hustle culture spectrum isn't helping anyone.

[@mariaralph6518]

For me the process of uncovering and processing childhood trauma has often required more rest than I would like. Sometimes I don't want to rest and find it extremely depressing, but it has been incredibly necessary to give myself the permission to not be productive and the anti-hustle culture memes can feel very validating in that time. I know I need more downtime right now to get in touch with my emotions and body instead of staying so busy I never have to face my trauma. But I really like the points you raise about community and productivity/interaction for our own sake outside of a capitalist framework. It's very nuanced and there is a lot to think about in terms of energy management. It definitely brings to mind the DBT skill of opposite action which has been really helpful for me at times when I feel like I can't do anything. Also, my relationship with this whole concept is only possible since I moved from the US to the UK 6 years ago, you really do have a lot more protection of your time and rest built into working culture and legally protected here, which is a massive privilege.

[@racoon2623]

i’ve never thought of hustle culture in this way. i find that trying to turn hobbies into income streams can be stressful and take the fun out of them, so i try to keep a hard line between the work i do so i buy food and the things i find personally fulfilling. i also try to think of “self care” more like “maintenance.” like brushing my teeth and try to eat well so i can function rather than doing a face mask or something. what i take away from anti hustle culture is that my time and energy should be cultivated and spent enriching my life rather than trying to fill my bank account or climb some corporate ladder. sometimes that means i spend every free moment i have writing, and sometimes it means taking a bubble bath and watching a movie. it all depends on what my body and mind need in the moment

[@nadiacenteno2989]

As I am about to start grad school while working full time (🥴), this couldn't come at a better time. 💖

[@marissawhite8140]

I work in an office almost every day. I am fortunate enough to generally enjoy what I do (traffic engineer designing roads), and i get to see the impacts of my work in the community. As long as I am busy I really like my job. I struggle a bit when work is slow but that is the way of things. Also i prefer to work from home but I have to be in the office 3 days a week. Still grateful for the two days at home. I get in grooves where I might work more, but I try to still takw time off when I need it. I am not apart of hustle culture because I do not strive for promotions or more money, I strive to just do a good job. This attitude is due to my privilege of having a good paying job though. I can live confortably and still give to charity which is all I really want. More money is nice but at this stage my mental health is more important. Great video!

[@noctelupus]

I only work part time, in a retail job and can honestly say I often feel incredibly burned out despite only working at max about 25 hours a week. And I def feel part of that is essentially at this point in time I don't really have anything else to channel my energy into. I used to have a volunteer role at a local zoo that I adored and managed to keep going in for about six years, then understandably the pandemic impacted that and then last year my role was no longer required. And I really did feel like a lost of a lot of my sense of purpose when said role finished because in hindsight I was there a long time, I was there longer than some of the paid staff I knew at said zoo but like I would eagerly get up on my Saturdays to go and do this and would be tired at the end of the day but it was generally a content tired as opposed so how I often feel after work which is 'I want to sleep for 2000 years' tired. I essentially have ended up in a lifestyle that feels like 'All I do is turn up for work, go home and then wait until I'm back at work as it takes so much of my energy to keep myself mentally prepared for work' even though my job isn't necessarily 'hard' it's still quite draining. I also kind of had the 'I went to uni, got a degree, didn't really work out what I actually wanted to do during that time, for a variety of reasons i've not been able to undertake a lot of opportunities and i've been stuck' and I really do feel like I don't currently have much of a purpose in my life beyond 'continue existing' And one thing I've had to learn or try and learn is that my value isn't based on my usefulness as I realise that's been quite a big problem for me especially when the 'usefulness' isn't necessarily giving me much back as I def feel I've been encouraged to give more than I ever take, but then I seldom take anything and then I've basically got nothing left.

[@noriarty7148]

Ooh this one was definitely thought-provoking! For instance I really liked what you said about the "pressure" to always have to look well rested, with perfect skin, like you've never been through anything, etc. I'd never thought about it that way. However I'd just like to put in my two cents regarding another point. So, I work in a non-profit that handles projects related to the environment. AKA, I work for the "good guys". And in this position, it is very easy to feel like, since you're doing something good, you should always do more, always put in more effort, always be more productive... HOWEVER. It is still a job. It is still deadlines, meetings that can turn tense, hours and hours spent in an office away from your family and friends, a sometimes annoying boss, etc. It can still be stressful and exhausting, no matter how good the cause. And I know that employees in these types of jobs can sometimes be made to feel guilty about taking time off or w/e because well, "why wouldn't they want to go above and beyond for such an important cause?" Basically what I'm trying to say is that "hustle culture" isn't always about trying to become richer or climbing higher up the ladder. It can also be present in work environments where "doing more" could be considered as "a net good for society". But we are humans, not machines, and we have to realize that we can't always be working. No matter how good the cause, we need (and deserve) breaks, week-ends, time for hobbies / family / friends / ... Which is always something that I try to convey to newbies in this field!

[@onestepatatime7412]

for me, anti-hustle culture taught me is that my worth as a human being is not tied to being productive, whether that’s in an office job or with regards to a passion project. even the work that i love doing is still work, meaning i need and deserve rest from that too. regardless of how much i care about a project, i know that i need to pace myself and allow myself pockets of time to focus on other things or on nothing at all, in order for it to be sustainable in the long run.

[@enn-yah8574]

I want to get involved in this discussion but I'm nearly falling asleep after work where I have like 2 hours to myself looool. I don't even think this is a hustle culture thing that anti hustle culture is about right now, it's anti toxic work culture (plus obvs hours and pay stuff). No one lets on how mentally draining the work place is when you're starting out working life. They don't warn you about the people who will talk to you like trash and you have to take it, the undermining that can happen, the hoops to you have to jump through(hustle through) to be given a reasonable wage etc etc. Time for sleep now

[@gatorskulls]

This is the most eloquent and thoughtful video i have seen on this topic and helped me solidify a lot of thoughts i had floating in my head. Thank you for helping me articulate that working hard on a project you enjoy isn't a bad thing and in the long run can be more beneficial to you!!

[@tardbug]

I love anti-hustle culture and have completely drank the Kool Aid. After uni I thought I had to give my heart, soul, and time to my job. But I've since learned that most jobs, regardless of the rhetoric and accolades they may throw at you, ultimately view you as replaceable. Now, I'm a Sr Manager at a major financial institution in Canada making 6 figures, who logs off at 5pm. I give them my time during the work day, though I am not shy about booking appointments during that time or taking time for a walk, etc as needed. Afterwards I live my life with friends, hobbies, clubs, exercise, travel etc. Those things I have learned are just as, if not more important than work, and ultimately allow me to work harder during the work day. Setting those boundaries has been one of the best decisions I have made and probably something I wouldn't change unless I was giving back, fighting for a greater good, and/or working for myself

[@ElizabethChronis]

Having limited time to take in much of the anti-hustle & hustle culture stuff, I have a somewhat different take on it … my understanding of hustle culture was always about finding ways to make more money & extract every last penny out of your time/stuff, leading to monetizing your personal hobbies & assets (ie you should sell what you sew or rent out your spare bedroom). Just ‘not trying’ to monetize everything seems perfectly reasonable to me, assuming of course that the day job(s) pays enough to live on

[@helsbels]

Re. Energy. I think there are different types of energy that all balance in different ways. I'm an extroverted ADHDer who had burnout this year and is trying to find something approximating balance. I get energy from seeing humans, but it also drains me. I need exercise for stimulation AND expending excess energy, but it tires me and is counter to rest and soothing. I need to zone out and rest my brain but it doesn't stimulate me enough and that bores me. They all sit in exceptionally delicate and opposing balance, but are all needed for me to stay on an even keel and be able to cope with lifestuff. It's complicated, man.

[@aleg1865]

Yup!! It is an exhausting task to seek out the balance my brain, body, and soul needs. Specially when I don’t set clear ends to the activities I have, I find myself in social situations that gave me energy but after the third hour are draining me. I am trying to set time to take care of myself, but those tasks don’t really sparkle joy (give me dopamine) so I put myself on hold and do the fun things and then I am to tired to take care of me It is tough! Do you have any advice?

[@lauren-gx1lg]

This is something I felt instinctively but never was able to verbalize. I've noticed I'm my best and most healthy self when I invest my free time into doing art and entering modes of deep focus. That, paired with creativity, has a really wonderful recharging effect that I need to keep myself sane. Often, I've found, I feel more stuck and tired on days when I do absolutely nothing (under the guise of rest) than on days I work on personal projects and/or connect with my community. Sometimes, I do need days where I do absolutely nothing, but a lot of the time, I think I need a rest day when I really just need to do something I'm passionate about.

[@Bdjdhdudh]

What strikes me about this whole discussion is the contrast of two extremes. Hustle culture and anti-hustle culture give us two opposite scales to measure the value of our lives against. Ultimately both condone focusing all energy inward on self improvement along the prescribed scale. I believe the greatest flaw with either belief system is the emphasis on the self rather than on your relationships with others or your community. Leena discussed the importance of finding a link to community or a cause to motivate us. I think that centering our lives around how to be in relation to others is what will also center us on the scale of these two extremes and make us the most content. When we prioritize ourselves over all, I think we loose sight of what is truly valuable in life: other people. What’s more, when we prioritize our self improvement over all, we forget why it’s worth becoming better: so that we can become better for the other people in our lives.

[@llm210]

i work in a local authority as an admin apprentice and the two phrases thats repeated to me is 'you can only do what you can do.' and ' work smarter not harder. both of those things have helped me established boundries with myself and my work collegues. without going into to too much detail the department i work in is NON STOP and has broken a lot of people in the sector. I think i've been able to work better in an office environment now i'm a bit older and more life experienced because i'm no longer being a yes man, which sadly was my entire life in retail. I have several personal boundries now which haas really helped and i think working where i do has given me the backbone i didn't know i needed. This isn't to say that i say no all the time or that i'm not a team player ( I'm often praised for getting shit done) but i respect my own mental wellbeing too much to keep burning myself out anymore... something people can spend their whole careers trying to achieve.

[@dawnhazell2697]

I left a well-paying NHS job to follow a career I was genuinely interested in within a vet practice. I currently work 30 hours (3x10hr shifts) at my new job and I find myself entirely exhausted after each shift and I get very minimal wages but I love the job so much that I made the decision to take the money and have an additional job on the side continuing my old NHS job on a zero hours contract where I usually do 10-15hrs working from home per week. This means on average I work around 46 hours over 5 days a week. However, when there was communication indicating the NHS service I work for might cease to exist I accepted other additional work such as pet sitting and additional hours at the vet. However, the NHS service never ended so now I am doing overtime at my main job, an additional day or 2 at my NHS job, and pet sitting during the nights. This has meant I often don't have a single day off in a week. I am working to drop a few things as this is frankly unsustainable and I rarely get to spend meaningful time with my friends and family. In addition, my degree is in illustration and freelance illustration would be my ideal 'second job', but as I work from home so often and I'm so tired from all the work hours, the last thing I want to do on a day off is return to my workspace to create something. The moral I have learned this year is that selling your time for an hourly rate is not a win, because it's impossible to raise your income without sacrificing your time, unless you are able to negotiate a pay rise once in a blue moon or making the gamble of leaving your job for a better paying one. I don't know what my long term solution is, but I am trying to figure out how I can make enough money to live a comfortable life with enough time to meet all my basic needs, in a career I find genuinely fulfilling. It's a seemingly impossible task, but one I hope is worthwhile

[@komiaribs]

I watched Alice Cappelle's video about this topic, "anti-work discourse online," and it made me realize I had been using the wrong words for what I dream about. Alice talked about the "I don't dream of labour"-content on social media, and then it clicked for me. I *do* dream of labour (cooking, gardening, sewing, other manual chores around the house, helping people near and far the best I can - I would classify all of these as "labour," as something requiring physical/mental/social/emotional energy), YET I *don't* dream of my wages being monetary. I want to work, be present in the world and _do things_, but I want to do them so that I am compensated with something other than money. I guess this means I'm into an exchange economy system (although those also have their problems!). For *me* "anti-hustle" or "anti-work" culture means "giving money less and giving joy more weight," which is more of a mindset than a realistic practice in a capitalistic world. But it helps to know that it's okay to not reach for a stressful, high-paying job if I don't want to. It's okay to earn a median wage (which in my country is a livable wage!!) and not be ashamed about it. If you feel you have enough, it's okay to not reach for more. Note: This is coming from a white, able-bodied, young, "upper" working class person who has always had food on the table and hasn't been in need (it was close tho), currently lives on student benefits and student loan without much help from parents (a personal choice), studying for a low-average-wage job. + I think you're saying "culture" very understandably, Leena. Many thanks for a great video again

[@ThreefoldDesigns]

THANK YOU! I agree that 'don't try' has become the new thing - people say 'oh you work so hard' - no, I really don't, I'm just super passionate about creating art!! And people are almost shaming me for that, as 'self care' is the new thing?

[@thebeaside]

To me the thing that i need from anti hussle culture is like normalizing not being ambitious. Like I’m not less valid as a person because I don’t want to write the next great novel or be an entrepreneur. I do a lot of creative hobbies and get told I should turn them into a business, no thank you. My biggest dreams is my husband and I both working 4 day weeks, tending to our garden and having hobbies. Outside of being financially secure I’m not interested in generating wealth. Being a freelancer is my nightmare, I want a boring office job, and I’m sick of being told I shouldn’t ‘settle’, I’m not settling that’s literally what I want. Normalize not having grandiose goals in life.

[@kritickatie]

When I think of hustle culture I think of side hustling and the pressure to be pursuing things outside of your 9-5 job, like working for yourself. Now I work a 9-5 I enjoy - teaching - I don’t strive as much for the side hustle, because I mentally/physically can’t. It’s a confusing topic, which can be laced with guilt; am I doing enough? Am I doing too much? I guess it’s about knowing your body, mind, limits and what drains/fills you up. I definitely agree that we need to find more replenishing activities, rather than just straight rest/switch off mode. Thank you for this video Leena - lots to think about as always 😊

[@luzsena3256]

A problem that I see with this "self care" phenomenon is that it becomes a form of lonely self optimization within itself. Like, you HAVE to be fit, you HAVE to have glowing skin, but it's all focused on how you present yourself to others, distancing yourself from the community, from engaging with people. Which of course is fine in small amounts, but should not be the ONLY thing you focus on imo. We all thrive, if our environment is thriving with us, and not despite of it. Self care for me is also talking with a friend who's having problems and as they feel better, you also thrive in their better mood, if that makes sense. Another issue is that "rest" is a very vage thing, and keeps us from truly focusing in what would do us some good. If I stay in bed all morning on my day off scrolling through my phone, I actually feel worse than before. Resting should be done with intention. Whether is means going for a walk while listening to a podcast, or taking care of the plants in your home - there's a mission, a beginning and an end, and you accomplish something without the stress of making money out of it.

[@Hetachan]

I found the whole "it's not cool to try" is such a major part of my industry! It's frowned upon to be excited about something because it's perceived as "naive" which I think is a mega shame! I don't think there's anything wrong with being excited to work and whilst everything isn't roses, it doesn't stop me wanting to see things for myself!

[@AbroadonaBudget]

This exactly! Excitement, wonder, sincere enjoyment- these are often scoffed at as naive or, worse, being a bootlicker for x,y,z. It's like if you aren't constantly negative/down/complaining you are in cahoots with the system and it's like... no, but I have to make money and I am trying to enjoy the good parts so it doesn't suck so much?

[@martaaleksejczuk1660]

Can I ask what industry you work in (just out of curiosity)?

[@destinyischoice]

This is a really interesting video and I appreciate a lot of the questions Leena's raised here and tried to answer. I read a lot of the comments here and there's a lot to unpack when it comes to work and hustle culture, anti-capitalism, etc. To simplify my thinking a little bit, I feel like in the ideal world, nobody should have to work to live - at least not in a way that means they're working within toxic work environments, for bosses that don't care about them, and in work that feels/is meaningless to them. Wages need to allow people to live - to have somewhere to live that is safe and secure, enough food, access to quality healthcare, education, and so that they are able to participate in their hobbies, interests, and communities if they so choose. I feel like work should work for the person, not the other way around. There's an undercurrent of exploitation and toxicity that runs through most capitalist cultures and systems that needs complete change. Maybe we're all coming from different ideas of what hustle culture is. I remember my first intro to the value of radical rest/anti-hustle came from an account for advocating radical rest for Black people in 2020 when BLM and the protests were taking place. It made me think about the mental, physical, and emotional toll work, activism, chronic stress, and inequality can take on people. And because we live in a society where most of us grapple with inequality and some form of oppressive structures, I think the anti-hustle culture movement is at its core (or should be!) to do with care - for ourselves, for our communities, our families, friends, and society in general. Like anything, there is some weirdness because the internet makes things weird and warps the messaging of things! I'm currently recovering from mental and emotional burnout because of ADHD and being autistic (I'm also deaf). It's not quite the same as work related burnout but the symptoms are similar and it has taken me a few years to start feeling my energy and will to do things return. It's a lot like chronic fatigue and depression in that everything is an effort. I haven't been able to work much on my writing, or find the energy to do much else other than the bare minimum. My relationship to work and my ideas of work and energy have had to change. I've also had to unlearn from the previous generation that your value comes from your work or what you do (I'm a millennial, my parents are baby boomers). There is a lot of ableism in the world of work and how we think of it. Our society doesn't allow for flexibility and neurodivergence, of different ways of looking at work and what constitutes work. We all contribute to society and life in different ways - whether that's by traditional work routes or by helping our families keep a home, childcare, gardening, activism, etc. Capitalism has made it that we are so fixated on the idea that 'work' has to be a job or has monetary compensation.

[@bd9158]

Just watched this after watching Mexie's last video. Interesting to watch them back to back. I think tbh they're both rooted in the fact that people are fed up of working every waking hour to just scrape by, but approach that from a different angle. In reality it's an ideal that's uncommon for anyone to achieve be they self-employed, side-hustlers or PAYE employees

[@360shadowmoon]

I have a very American perspective on this. Idk who originally coined 'hustle culture', but my original understanding of the term is this opposition to being busy and productive just for its own sake a la Puritan work ethic, regardless of the end to which you're working. Also opposition to this emphasis on "everyone has to be SUPER successful and rich otherwise your life is meaningless and worthless." Retiring this mentality is something I can get behind. But I totally agree that this doesn't mean we shouldn't have a purpose at all or work towards anything. I would be so bored if I didn't have goals, passions, or hobbies. In an ideal world, I would be able to focus on those.

[@moniqueprins6426]

As usual, you are spot on. Having experienced burnout which resulted in a total life crash and two years off work (and life if I'm honest) and from which I'm still recovering 5 years later, plus working in HR, your words and ideas are a breath of fresh air. Well done for sharing with us a tailored and nuanced approach to burnout and hustle culture. Love your work.

[@wilkobye9533]

i thought hustle culture was about the idea that you have to pour all of your time and energy into monetizable activities and that everything else is a waste of time we should feel guilty about. also, as a disabled person it feels strange like, saying we should do replenishing activities and take focus away from working less when, if i work an 8h day i hardly manage the energy to feed myself. the focus should absolutely be on not working 8h or often more because overtime is expected. thos will allow people to do what you described. idk. odd video leena i really dont get where youre coming from here. ive also never seen anyone define rest as just lying around all day i think thats depression or like being bed bound because of disability.

[@marielaluisa7273]

I’ve suffered my worst burnouts in the education system and both came after I felt my hard work was either not acknowledged or unproductive. I also feel the British education system is so focused on exam excellence and subject specialization that it’s hard not to feel as if the goals are being set FOR you but are really only achieve for a certain kind of person who thrives in that work condition. I agree completely that it’s not just about the energy you exert but the emotional fulfillment for it. I found that working as hard at other points but on things I truly enjoy prevented a burnout which I was expecting - this made me realise it’s not about how much you work but what you’re working on

[@louiseerbslisbjerg7854]

One thing that's always left out of the conversation about money, is ableism. A lot of chronically ill people do NOT gain more energy or workability from doing "energizing" things. No matter how much they love it and feel satisfaction from it. And there is no possibility of adding more money if you are on benefits. Some of the poorest people aredisabled and chronically ill. People who did'nt ask for it. Most are'nt even wanting to just acquire wealth just for the funsies, they are tring to survive and just be comfortable. I'd like to see that conversation.

[@laurenlovesstories]

You're vocalizing all these ideas that have been floating around in my head lately. I have always felt torn about the whole "I don't dream of labor" mentality. Because I picked my career based on how I want to contribute to society and my career is not completely meaningless to me. I can see the impact of my work every day. So while self care and rest definitely is important to keep me active and helpful and I'm learning about balance for myself currently, I find this idea that I shouldn't enjoy my work at all to be counter to my experience.

[@orladdin]

I work 2 jobs in healthcare and I am on the lowest rung of the heirarchy in both. Hustle culture is very much alive and well and nothing has changed systemically, if anything it's worse than pre-COVID because we're under so much more strain, and because the people at the top who had the luxury of working from home all want to be back in the office, they don't understand that others still need accommodations. These people are not inclined to acknowledge that their pretending this is over is killing the rest of us who never got a chance to rest. The entire system is collapsing under the weight of COVID which is currently the worst it's ever been in Australia but all protections and safety nets have been removed. I wish we had anti-hustle culture. I'm breaking

[@shannarchy]

I don’t think I’ve ever run into a version of anti-hustle culture where anyone is saying don’t try. Almost everything I’ve read is more along the lines of you don’t live to work. I very much agree with anti-hustle culture and also am in the midst of a PhD program. It’s a balance. I think rest is resistance and laziness doesn’t exist are two books that speak in-depth about different types of rest.

[@leifaudrey8975]

my favourite little moment in this video was being able to pause it to read your “unclean magdalene” poem in my copy of your poetry collection and reinterpret it as it specifically relates to this topic. please keep mentioning these connections as they come up, i love them so much!

[@AudioJack321]

Hustle culture is mostly useful to motivate you when you feel like youre stuck in a bad rut. Its not meant to be a religion or life style, more so a temporary antidote to get you going, some however, like in most things, take it to far.

[@AthynVixen]

About to start a new job and thank heavens for that. I have been unemployed since my last job ended in Dec 2019 and I am sick of having nothing to do...very much looking forward to being a productive member of society again and actually having some income other than pennies I have found on the street. From your Good Housekeeping definition i have had way way way too much time for things I don't have like hobbies or family and I am looking forward to feeling human again.

[@martinarasch5994]

If you go out with a purpose it's a quest, if the going out is more important than the destination it's a journey. And if you get lost on the way it's an adventure. (Paraphrased from a Tumblr post I think.) I'm in a government office job which in itself is hierarchical and, you know, a lot of red tape. My job however is to aid and support both my government agency and the, eh, countys, I suppose, in our region (I live in Sweden) to implement human rights in their work towards citizens. I of course care about human rights and my job but I'm still inherently against "the work line" (as it's called in Sweden) i.e. that everyone has to have a full time job and work their butt off when there isn't enough work for everyone and a lot of people are forced into bullshit jobs... My take on anti-hustle culture is that it's not bad to "work hard" if it's something you're passionate about, be it volunteering, art, community work or even, gods forbid, paid work. That's NOT hustling. Hustling seem to be something people do for the sole purpose of getting rich and that's just not a good enough reason. It's actually a really bad reason, maybe even an immoral one.

[@SallyPlayedGuitar]

I recently started working (3 days a week because I'm still finishing up my PhD) for a small company and I completely feel what you're saying about seeing the result of your labour and being invested in it. I get to see the projects I work on make their way into people's hands, and I want the company to grow because I want to keep working there and I want them to be able to afford to keep me on in the long run. I don't feel like a cog in the machine. So the fact that I love my job is part this, part company culture (everyone is very kind and our opinions matter), part working-from-home (it's just what works for me), and part getting to work on my special interest (books) every day. I'm wary of the term 'dream job' but this is pretty ideal imo

[@naecocificap4588]

If I may ask how do you feel this connection between the PhD and hussle culture. I am currently trying to decide whether or not to do a PhD and was wondering if there is as little free time as people say?

[@SallyPlayedGuitar]

@@naecocificap4588 It honestly depends on the person. I decided to do mine in two years so I might not be the best person to ask. In my experience, if you're not working at the same time there is some free time but the work is so mentally taxing that you need that free time to recover. I wouldn't recommend doing a PhD, but it depends on your circumstances.

[@naecocificap4588]

@@SallyPlayedGuitar ah what makes it so that you don't recommend a PhD? Is it just not worth it?

[@SallyPlayedGuitar]

@@naecocificap4588 There are a lot of really good videos about the pros and cons of a PhD out there but yeah, for me personally I don't think it was worth it. I'm entirely self-funded so that's years of living on my savings and paying to work for the university for a piece of paper and the ability to get called Dr. That being said, I started off thinking I wanted to stay in academia so if I did, I would have definitely needed that PhD.

[@lizzzzzv]

I've been thinking about this a lot too! When I was at my old job and incredibly burnt out, anti-hustle culture had a lot of appealing ideals, however I found a lot of the rhetoric online left me even more devoid of happiness and meaning. While I agree with a lot of facets of anti-work and anti-hustle culture, it seems like a lot of content out there is outright contemptuous and preaches to actively sabotage the workplace and avoid work in every which way instead of empowering people to advocate for themselves or directing people to a useful outlet. I do feel exploited under capitalism in a lot of ways, but the solution isn't to give up and stop taking pride in what I do; it's even more soul-sucking to go through life with no ambition and no regard for those around me. The mentality of trying to work as little as possible saps more energy, reduces motivation for the things that are actually fulfilling, and keeps people in a rut that is hard to crawl out of. I've found the most happiness in finding small, enjoyable hobbies with some sort of deliverable (gardening, drawing, etc.) because it feels like I'm accomplishing something I care about instead of performing cyclical work and treating myself as a commodity. There are some great takeaways from the overall culture, like people shouldn't have to justify their existence, it's a human right to seek happiness and fulfillment, we function better as communities than individuals, and we should try not to be complicit in our own exploitation, etc. but I see an ugly side of it that DOES feel very miserable middle schooler, and that's not something I want to associate with. Staying driven and finding work that feels good is the spice of life!

[@marygracedonaldson8346]

Yes yes this!!

[@emmeline-tyler]

Yes I don’t think anti-capitalism has to be anti-work

[@sophiepoyser4731]

I swear you must be psychic. I was having my own little crisis about this recently 😅

[@heididewhirst]

Funnily enough, I was working when I was watching this- and taking breaks from the work to 'rest' by watching you! Lots of food for thought Leena, thank you.

[@delaneys-books1290]

One of the phrases I see a lot in the anti-hustle culture is “I do not dream of labor”, but I do dream of labor! Even if I picture my ideal life that doesn’t include a job, it still includes gardening, cooking, reading, writing, and helping others. The idea of actually doing nothing sounds horribly boring, I need the quest to give me some purpose to life

[@melopepo]

I think the “I don’t dream of labor” movement refers to having a job, usually a job that you don’t like in order to sustain yourself financially. It doesn’t refer to not doing anything, it’s actually the opposite. It’s about filling your life by doing the things you love such as the ones you mentioned.

[@afteringshow2478]

In the Artist’s Way, Julia Cameron talks about there being a difference between workaholism (what we would now prolly call hustle culture) - which has a treadmill like quality- and “zestful work towards cherished goal”. Love that description.

[@leenanorms]

I love that - I STILL need to get around to the artists way, it's been on my TBR for YEARS

[@aleatoirefrancais]

I’m still in the middle of watching the video, but have gotten distracted by the thoughtful and respectful comments. Truly one of the best comments sections on KZbin!

[@jinxedthings5394]

I am autistic (amongst several other disabilities) and burnout is so real. The words describe very literally how both my body and mind feels. I think 'autistic burnout' is much different to allistic ideas of burnout. I can really only manage a few tasks per day at the moment, and I need to prioritise rest in order to get better. But there are so many different ways to 'rest'. Right now, I have a real craving to chat with friends and recharge socially, putting my energy towards that would be restful for me at the moment.

[@Carla0297]

I find that the most frustrating thing for me personally is that my mental illness manifests as extreme fatigue. So much so that I've ended up in hospital unable to barely keep my head up. When I've tried things in the past such as freelancing, I felt inadequate and unable to attain that level of superiority that hustle culture promotes. Being physically and mentally unable to work a certain amount left me feeling so lazy, so it became something that was causing me stress because I wasn't 'doing enough.' But thinking back on it, I was still working so hard, putting in a lot of time and energy, so this left me thinking what on earth are other people having to sacrifice to get to that elite level? Your point on social responsibility/empathy was interesting Leena because it touched on my question of what people are having to sacrifice; time with friends, mental wellbeing, hobbies? This was such a ramble lol but my point is it's so bloody hard to find balance in life and trying to decide what should take priority based on your own desires

[@GrungeGalactica]

Just hearing the word ‘hustle’ makes me wanna take a stress nap.

[@zuhar2526]

Hustle culture is for me still doing a full time work in a job you don't care about. Sometimes finding meaningful work in this profit oriented system is impossible for certain professions. I found cutting up hours slowly (3 hours instead of getting a raise) every year made perfect sense to keep my life style as it is as long as i can. I think it is more humain to work for 30 hours max and then switch back after ca . 5 years of cutting hours to getting raises to keep up with inflation.

[@Kat_1490]

I think, as a teacher (notoriously overworked and underpaid) sometimes people don't mind doing a bit extra. Sometimes even, doing a bit extra for me is self-care - if I spend 30 mins extra every day marking then this leaves me with my weekends free and I don't have to worry about it. However, it's when this extra work is expected and an institution (like teaching) comes to rely on the discretionary effort of its staff in order to run that this causes a problem. If I choose not to spend this extra 30 mins marking every night and I face guilt and shame and fear that I'm not doing my job properly if I can't get all my work done during the work day - this becomes very toxic. I hope this makes sense ...

[@elizabethroyerjohnson4992]

This was such a good video, so much to mull over! I have a tendency to get into depressive states and so I have to recognize the whisper in my brain that says “don’t do anything, stop trying, sleep more” for what it really is - a siren’s call that will not make me feel better as promised, but will instead drag me down into depression. That being said, I do dream of both working hard on something I really love and also working less - those two desires are definitely in conversation. The most draining setup for me is when I’m in a situation where I have to work hard on things that just feel like they don’t matter.

[@linafresco]

thank you for yet another thought-provoking video ♥watching/listening to too many videos and podcasts about quitting a job, moving out of town and leaving everything behind made me question my own interests and passions in an unhealthy way. I believe the anti-hustle culture's been romanticised a lot, whereas in fact impulsive decisions like quitting everything might bring a lot of frustration.

[@niamhhardman4287]

As a student (who is working, but not in what I’d ever hope to have as a “career”) I reaaaaally appreciate this video

[@beccabooked]

I agree that we need some purpose and something to focus on in order to live our best lives, and trying will always be cool :)

[@julial.r.5383]

Awesome deep content. Good to rethink our lifestyle, life goals/values, and the hustle⏱ vs. anti-hustle🏖 “cultures” thrown at us everyday in society nowadays. We don’t need to decide between the two, as neither are perfect. I’ll rewatch in the future.

[@twiddlinthemthumbs]

Self care to me is helping people feel better in their lives, their bodies. It means recommending shows or films that'll help them think, or they'll have a fun time, a good time. It's going through their wardrobe and doing the annoying bits of taking all of the clothes out and folding them back in, and taking the clothes for donations. It's also helping someone figure out how to arrange the furniture in their room, and helping with the hard work of moving it all. I thougth it was because my brain was on pause in those moments. It's not actually on pause as I have to give my opinion, use my "moving furniture around" expertise, etc. It's just that for once, I have no pressure on me, on myself. This sort of self care doesn't look like I'm resting, but it's actually replenishing like you explained. Thanks for making me realize that!

[@samd77666]

The idea of a quest reminded me of theories which place competence and mastery as a human need. Working towards ***personally*** meaningful goals is so so important!

[@zandariko1942]

My favourite subject, thank you Leena for sharing! If I may add to the parts of the conversation that I have been reflecting on for the past 2 years, there are 2 points I would like to address. First is that I think hustle culture is really a question of perception of value, and definting what matters to onesemf. As I grew up in a family and school engorged with hustle culture, I have come to realise that the brainwashing really is a question of self worth. Parents said "work hard or else you won't have choices in life" so we did, and when I left my engineering degree 1 year away from getting it to give courses freelance because I hate being pushed around by bosses, they thought I had accomplished nothing, that my life was a waste. They failed to see I was freeing myself and imagined I would not be able to achieve anything from there, I had lost my value. Yet I have seen my parents give all they have to their bowses just to get stuff that didn't make them happy, not to be rich like you said, but to look like they had a lot (big house, big car, swimming pool) so that they could feem self worth, because they never knew any better. Second, I think complete freedom in work is unattainable, and it's ok. Where you see us as tiny bosses, I see my client as, well, client. A boss generally wants something for you and has tje power to demand you to work differently. A client wants something too, has to pay you too, they may ask for change but can only stop using your service as a result of a disagreement. This creates balance in power and at the same time it is only normal to want to answer to the desires of clients, because it is what makes us better at our work. (I do private tutoring so often parents want grades and I camly explain that it is nonsense tp focus on that bs, in my work it is more about the requests of the students). This reasoning led me to think it is only normal for us freelancers to have to meet certain expectations, these are things that make us valuable, but for them not to come across as disrespectful of our personhood, I think the dynamic "client wants a result and you are the one coming up with your solution because they trust you" is necessary. And then the stuff ypu're thinking about is not entirely up to you, and it's ok.

[@cosmicpolitan]

I agree with KatzePiano that the activities that nourish you, anything that recharges your battery (sewing, jogging, etc) sans monetization are not being criticized. When I think of hustle culture, I think of the pressure to turn all your hobbies into income. Or those sociopaths who thought we should all write a second thesis during quarantine so we didn’t “waste” time. Energy levels are very unique for each person. Even if I was only doing my favorite fun activities every day, it would not be sustainable for me. I would still need plenty of rest and time to just “be” without “doing.”

[@AngelaJones-db9fj]

Some ppl believe in slow living bc the fast life can be reckless as in driving at fast speeds. You can crash, possibly injuring or killing yourself. The short story of the "Hare and Turtle" touches or teaches a moral lesson. Avoid the extremes and find the middle grown. In order for a bird to fly (plane) - nevermind.

[@skatingcreative5999]

I left a job where I was over worked and it had a toxic culture to do a different job, both had the same official hours and both are jobs I was super passionate about. The difference is the life balance I get with my new job and the fact that I am treated like a human doing the work rather than a graphic design machine. I also love what I do and run a business in my off hours. I know o work more than the average person and I have burnt myself out before, but it wasn’t necessarily from the quantity of work I take on but how I was approaching it. I don’t ever intend to be a millionaire I just want to do work I am passionate about and earn enough to support myself and my family (which let’s be honest on this day and age might mean I have to become a millionaire).

[@beckiejbrown]

As always, perfect discussion. x

[@Piepouilleuse]

Every time I click on one of your videos, it indeed makes me reflect on my own beliefs and behaviours, and sometimes I have to pause. To write down a quote that I want to explore later, but, regularly and for most, to cry. Today it made me realize that my sleep problems (that I endure since my youngest age) were actively caused by the culture of rest and the pressure around the "successful sleep schedule" of 8 hours for an adult and 10 for a child. I had heard about active rest, but it never clicked in that way in my little head. *sigh* now I'm gonna journal about this i guess....

[@claudiajade624]

Yes. So keen to hear this discussion. I think there is a real danger of ppl 'quiet quitting ' (ie putting in minimal effort at their jobs) to try and not succumb to hustle culture, in terms of making them feel really unfulfilled and just...crappy. Has to be a balance, and obvs Have to feel like getting rewarded for your efforts, but for me working hard and 'achieving' (in whatever form that takes), feels Good, and gives me purpose.

[@borkbork4124]

I like the nuance take, but as a culinary grad in foodservice, the service industry is the place that really needs the help. The average hourly pay in the U.S. for CHEFS is not above 20 USD, and those are the people at the top in my world. I know office jobs, and Bullshit Jobs (the book on it is eye opening) can be draining, but it is hard to hear criticism on antihustle when I am hustling for scraps and have no sick days, no vacation, making so little money I am below the poverty line, and yet my industry is *essential.* Your examples are the extremists on the internet telling you to cancel plans with friends, which IS ridiculous advice. Working class people experience more loneliness and have less friends than their middle and upper class counterparts. This antihustle extremism is awful, it is in bad taste like the FIRE movement which is on the far opposite side. Overall, I have been glad to see the attention of reexamining the work week and increasing pay for the lowest paid workers. Love the channel, this vid was not my favorite though. Also, I would love to see you on The Financial Diet’s podcast, I feel you would be a great guest!

[@ruffey1748]

David Graeber's Bullshit Jobs opened my eyes big time!

[@SeSeMittens]

I am so happy to be one of your tiny little bosses. You enrich my life a lot. Thank you

[@WinaPuangco]

This is one of the most nuanced video essays on labor I've watched. :) Thanks for this, Leena!

[@jurottluff2364]

As someone who has experienced a form of burnout, the biggest difference between my schedules that got me there versus my schedule now is not the actual amout of hours I am "busy", but rather how I plan it: Previously I would just pack my schedule because of different comittments and I couldn't really say no to things or cancel, whereas now I am still a pretty busy person, because that's just a lifestyle I enjoy, but I am way more mindful with my energy. So one week or day I'd be just as busy as I used to be, but when I notice my energy dropping, I actually allow myself the break and to cancel things or ask for extensions on deadlines. I stopped planning for ALWAYS 100% energy, but more like an 70% average where I can shift tasks around more easily without using more energy than I can sustainably invest. Because that was my problem with hustle culture, teaching us to always do those good habits, always getting up early, always growth, always doing more and doing 100%. The problem is not giving 100%, it is having to always give 100%

[@invitethecalm]

There was a time when I was a manager who typically worked about 50hrs a week for that job. A couple days a week I'd finish at the office and teach a yoga class or be a life model. I recognized that I easily could fill my day with "side hustle" activities and keep my energy up, but to stay one more hour in the office felt awful. Just the change in scenery, people and what I'm doing was enough to keep the tank full. I only take on "side hustle" activities that bring me joy.

[@MissMuffin446]

I always really like the quote relating to burnout (no idea who it’s from unfortunately): you are not doing too much, you are doing too little of the things that bring you joy.

[@leenanorms]

Love that!

[@DashValkyrie]

I honestly think that part of the problem with work is not that we are doing too much of it, but we are doing the wrong work (the kind that Graeber talks about in Bullshit jobs). It's the feeling that there is something better we should be reaching for but we are not empowered to do so due to the need to pay rent or mortgages, support partners and families, pay for our health insurance, and buy enough stuff that we can still pretend we're enjoying ourselves along the way. The pandemic made a lot of white collar workers realise that their paid work is not necessary for society to function, but also that the work that *is* necessary is the kind that is almost universally underpaid and underappreciated. Or not paid at all. (don't get me started on how the 8/8/8 concept presupposes that workers have a stay-at-home spouse, or otherwise live in a household with someone who is able to do household labour for free) Our society is deliberately structured so that those of us with white collar jobs both envy and look down on those with essential jobs, and that comfortable living is out of reach for a certain number of people because we need a minimum number of people to be coerced into doing essential jobs so capitalism can "function". The net effect is that except for the very wealthy, few people have the kind of autonomy where they have both enough time *and* enough resources to do nourishing, enriching, self-actualising work that uplifts their community and society.

[@risika]

I was listening to a podcast that said, “it’s important to live life by design rather than emotion. Basically, sticking to a routine is what allows us to be the healthiest version of ourselves (especially when you're fighting these demons ex. OCD for me). I’ve had to overhaul how I approach taking care of my brain (journaling) by practising mediocre consistency. Now I try to put in consistent 50-60% effort into my journaling habit, workouts and studying - to make sure I do it I began recording it and posting it on YT. And part of that is routinely putting in work on your dreams and projects despite how you’re feeling! I was a zombie for 2 years after seriously burning out in 2019, so depressed - feeling like those years are just gone - the critic in my head is vicious. Buts its constant process of learning and unlearning.

[@popcorn1304]

Thanks for sharing this! What's the name/episode of the podcast? I'd love to hear more about this.

[@risika]

@@popcorn1304 Its this epsiode - its about ocd but I think the main ideas can be extrapolated and helpful to everyone: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eXjciGSIpZaMaMk

[@nimrodgrrrl]

It is a pleasure being one of your 2,000 tiny bosses, Leena. Thank you for the video, it’s given me a lot to think about! :)

[@soniashapiro4827]

You're terrific. I'm delighted by you and your videos.