Kahler vs. Floyd Rose My thoughts as a Guitar Tech. Tech tips part 3 of 3

[@bradrogers3033]

if you do an octave bend or a unison bend or bend a note hold and pick another note on a Floyd Rose it goes out of tune it does not with a Kahler. once you hear this on a Floyd you can't unhear it.

[@maxmustardman298]

But how ? The rolling motion of the cam should technically have the same effect as the knife edges of the floyd in that it tilts forward when bending a string, thus dropping all the other strings. This is something I ve been asking myself when comparing the drawbacks of both systems

[@bradrogers3033]

@@maxmustardman298 the cam does not move when you bend a note like with a floyd. i suggest you play a guitar with a Kahler. dean made some models with them recently that you could probably get used for around a 1000 bucks.

[@maxmustardman298]

@@bradrogers3033 will do. Im kinda obsessed with the physics behind this stuff 😆

[@FreshBagelz]

I was curious about this, thank you

[@sarguitars6603]

BTW Kahler makes both locking nuts AND behind the nut string locks. The behind the nut locks I find work better on exotic setups like compound radiuses and unusual nut width / radius combinations. They are also the only locks for multi scale guitars. I have also used locking tuners and just a Floyd style string angle bar in combo with a graph tech tusq nut with great results.

[@Greycap]

No need to ruin your headstock, all you need is locking tuners and a Tusq nut. Works like a charm on my Kahler guitars.

[@HeavyWeapon858]

The locking nut from Floyd is the only part from that system that I would recommend

[@garyholtguitarrig1884]

I can't necessarily blame you

[@HeavyWeapon858]

@@garyholtguitarrig1884 Yeah. I guess that's why Kerry and and a few other high level guitarists started using those locking nuts with the Kahler trem. The way that I see a Kahler is pretty much an upgraded Floyd rose without all the routing and tuning stability issues. My next guitar I'm putting a Kahler in with a titanium locking nut. The guitar itself is essentially the Esp KKV with only one pickup.

[@garyholtguitarrig1884]

@@HeavyWeapon858 always wanted a ESP KKV

[@HeavyWeapon858]

@@garyholtguitarrig1884 you can always find a copy online. Don't know if you'd be down for it since it's not American made.

[@GuitarGuy4647]

The nut “issue” is really a non-issue unless you’re playing a Kahler equipped guitar from the 80’s whether it be a cam-based model or something like a Spyder or Steeler. All modern guitars that have Kahlers going back to at least the late nineties all have FR style nuts which is the best of both worlds! I’ve had very good tuning stability with all of them. Actually, my 89’ HM Strat that had the short lived Kahler locking nut/string guide combo worked fine too.

[@greasyzach]

i have a kahler locking nut with my ofr, learned that trick from watching nuno stuff. had to shim my saddles, but i hear you don't have to anymore, thanks to the magic of a company finally listening to its customers

[@VnMJack]

My band plays in drop D,I play in standard E at home. The Kahler bridge allows me to go from E to drop D without unlocking anything. Floyd can't come close

[@christianfoster3806]

I had been a hard tail purist for 30 years, and got an Ibanez with a LoPro. At first it was frustrating, then miraculous when I figured it out. However, after 7 years I'm sick of compromising having crazy low action for the sake of big bends with the whammy bar. I want both. It's time to get a Kahler.

[@kellypeterson2625]

You are the first one that I have seen to point out that up pull on a Floyd causes the strings to hit the fretboard with low action. I combat that on my mine by angling the bridge towards the neck. I know that goes against the conventional recommendation of keeping the bridge parallel to the body, but I make it work.

[@garyholtguitarrig1884]

I know someone who does that as well

[@christianfoster3806]

I do that too. I've personally never found a musical use for totally slacking the strings, so there's no real trade off, for me at least. It certainly helps, but not enough. If I can bend up a major third on the fretboard, I want to be able to do it with the bar as well. I've been fighting with this for seven years, trying to find to right angle to achieve the ideal compromise, and I'm done. Moving on to a superior design.

[@Will-z1x]

Never played any trems much but I’ve done research, kahler just makes so much more sense to the player when used with a proper locking nut

[@popthatbeep]

I love how you pulling out punches on the floyds lol. Kahler bridge made floyd system looks and feels ridiculous from all perspectives. you missed the pro of minimal body routing on kahler. Great video btw

[@garyholtguitarrig1884]

Yeah that's something I over looked a bit and probably should of mentioned more Thank you for watching

[@bweaver5789]

Floyd Rose is just cheap engineering from $ stand point. Thats why most guitars have them. If looked at from an engineering point the Kahler is the better choice

[@garyholtguitarrig1884]

Absolutely 100% agree they server their purpose but the Kahler is a million times better

[@tippss3332]

So not true!!!!

[@sabbathbeast1322]

​@@tippss3332I use to buy a custom b.c rich custom built on reverb with a Floyd and the small square locking blocks keeps falling out

[@sabbathbeast1322]

So yeah man floyd rose are a piece of garbage tremolo and a waste of time

[@zAvAvAz]

@@garyholtguitarrig1884 How is the tone between the two?

[@Ibaneddie76]

They are both great, I prefer the Ibanez Edge! Kahler just built some custom 8 string multi scale trems for Dean that are badass, probably the craziest trems I've ever seen!

[@lroy730]

Have two Khaler guitars both with LSR roller nuts. Works like dream . 🤘

[@dekzan]

I'm learning from zero.. please, can you do dive bombs with Kahler as radical as with FRs ?

[@ricaard]

Yup ​@@dekzan

[@zAvAvAz]

Well i just use my floyd R5 nut with a Kahler flat mount then, would that be cool?

[@thought1212]

stewmac sells the zero fret nuts now. may help with kahlers and tuning stability in general.

[@coneyhutt]

Dude great comparison, great video. I've been looking for a Floyd alternative. Bought a real nice Ibanez with my first Floyd last year, and I want to love it so bad. Beautiful guitar. But damn does the Floyd kill it for me. Heard Jerry Cantrell talking about using a Kahler back in the day recently, and I've been looking for videos on them here but there's so few. I've yet to hear someone truly hate on them though! I wish more guitars came standard with them.

[@garyholtguitarrig1884]

@coltenhoneycutt2128 it's suck that the Kahler does not have the same market presence its such a genius peice of hardware

[@9vst9lxiv9]

i suppose if you have a kahler bridge with a fr nut there'd be no problems at all then?

[@garyholtguitarrig1884]

@@9vst9lxiv9 correct

[@9vst9lxiv9]

@@garyholtguitarrig1884 ooh okay love the informative video thanks

[@dpapaioannow]

actually kahler's new nuts the ones with the string director are even better than floyd's and have way more options for them too

[@CrisisActorJonsiri]

No wonder as a Novice Tech I was able to get my V220 (yes I love it) Carvin set up so easily. Just got a superstrat with a Kahler. I'm used to the Brass nut with the separate string locker. This new specimen is a locking nut. It'll do the job. Just got the oversized 7" thicc boi bar from Whammy Parts. I got a 6" for kicks too. Gotta love Whammy Parts.

[@xrattleheadx]

I’m thinking of buying me a Kahler for a Jackson Rhoads js32t. Do you suggest I buy a Floyd Rose locking Nut instead of using a Kahler locking Nut

[@garyholtguitarrig1884]

Hope in not too late but yes FR nuts are way better than kahler nuts as the kahler nut fully relays on the original nut of the guitar

[@deludedreality89]

​@@garyholtguitarrig1884That's the Kahler string lock. Kahler has a new locking nut with a built in string director that eliminates the need for a string tree.

[@T0tenkampf]

@@deludedreality89 so that might be a nice option for zero fret builds...hmm

[@sarguitars6603]

Interesting tid bit: Gary Kahler helped design the Floyd Rose bridge. That's why the spyder and some of the other 80s models are fulcrum based.

[@lorntrent3308]

Kahler helped design the Floyd Rose Pro and was the original manufacturer for a while but had nothing to do with the original Floyd Rose design

[@YsAbTones]

does the kahler feel closer to a hard tail than a floyd rose ?

[@garyholtguitarrig1884]

@@YsAbTones I would say yes feels very sturdy!!

[@timfrank-u5g]

Tremsetter and others thoughts please

[@dekzan]

I'm learning from zero.. please, can you do dive bombs with Kahler as radical as with FRs ?

[@garyholtguitarrig1884]

You have more range on a Kahler

[@jedishredder8541]

Is the range of pitch change when using the tremolo the same on each?

[@garyholtguitarrig1884]

Kahler has more range

[@dudemetoo2053]

I prefer Kahler over floyd. I had a Kahler on my old 1983 BC Rich B NJ series and I loved it. Floyd always seemed the Pepsi of Coke, trying to do something, but unnecessarily complicated and fidgety. That said, if Floyd would sell a mod to help keep the damn strings in tune better, much like what Steve Vai uses on his rigs ( kzbin.info/www/bejne/jYK5lHmgbLJ8gKM&ab_channel=guitarMagazin See 2:08 in the video) than I might show a heck of a lot more love for their tremolo.

[@garyholtguitarrig1884]

Kahler is Coke while Floyd is pepsi that's a great analogy

[@mattm9759]

Are you aware Kahler makes a Floyd type locking nut? Much nicer and low profile.

[@garyholtguitarrig1884]

Did not know that I'll have to check it out

[@brCharlieNagy]

excellent point - makes sense , thank you, brother :-)

[@garyholtguitarrig1884]

No problem glad you enjoyed the video

[@adamwarlock3530]

I've been using Kahler since 1986. Far nicer trem than a floyd rose. I had a floyd rose on a charvel I had. I rarely played the guitar. I hated the trem. Ended up selling the guitar.

[@scottdahlberg4890]

I watch Kevin also, he is a bad ass. I play tune o matics and floyd's; but my new Kahler Kerry King edition 2300 is on the way. I am working on a JS32 RR body in all black (left handed). Going to get some serious Slayer going soon.

[@garyholtguitarrig1884]

Kevin is great dude me and him have talked about the Kahler quite a bit

[@billsalvey]

i have a ltd mh-1000 that came with a floyd rose, i have a guitar luthier filling in the cavity's on the front and back and installing a kahler 2300 pro.

[@garyholtguitarrig1884]

Badass

[@jamesascher8147]

Kahlers are the most comfortable for the hand especially when palm muting

[@DVSNTHERE]

I hate floyds! My 1990 Charvel's floyd needs to be redone as the fulcrum points are loose. To be expected after 34 years of hard use but a Kahler wont need that. Leaning towards just replacing with a 2300 hybrid. Long live Kahler

[@garyholtguitarrig1884]

@DVSNTHERE The Kahler is probably the best Trem. In my opinion, I have more Floyd's, but the Kahler is my favorite.

[@DVSNTHERE]

@@garyholtguitarrig1884 I've never owned one but I tried a Hanneman LTD and loved it.

[@garyholtguitarrig1884]

@DVSNTHERE That's how I fell in love with the bridge. I was looking for that guitar for a while, and I was so picky about it that having the Kahler as tech, I wanted to be familiar with it.

[@DVSNTHERE]

@@garyholtguitarrig1884 thank you

[@serdar213]

What Do you think about Kahler-X ? Chinese KK's have on it.

[@deludedreality89]

Only get Kahler USA bridges. The Hybrids are very good. The professionals are ambidextrous and honesty not really worth it unless you have the extra $ lyring around.

[@garyholtguitarrig1884]

I haven't tried the X series, but I have a hybrid, and it's great.

[@guitarsbymetaljay]

The advantage of a Kahler fixed bridge compared to the tremolo version is that the fixed bridge doesn't require a body route it is flat underneath and will bolt directly to a body as long as it's not a arch type guitar like a Les Paul

[@steve852011]

My Floyds are awesome rarely do I have to do any tuning between string changes, and you dont have to solder the strings. My Kahler has a floyd nut still i have never once been able to touch my my bar and get it to come back in tunel, guitar has been to a luther and 3 techs, 2 of them gave up knowing they wouldnt be paid. never been able to get any explanation as to why. Been playing with it locked for decades and tried to get it to work several hundreds of times... i have a standing offer if you want to try and set up, if it works i will pay you double the fee if not you get nothing...

[@T0tenkampf]

I love the Kahler 2300 which is why I still have all my 80/90s Carvins and Charvel/Jacksons and not my newer OFR guitars. I think OFR won the Vibrato war just from marketing in the same way that McD convinced us all that their greasy, slimy lil burger is better than a Whopper. I do want to evaluate a Floyd FRT though.

[@claudevieaul1465]

I have both, and love them both! If anything it might be slightly quicker to change strings on a Kahler, plus adjusting the tension is simply accessible from the top - unlike having to open the back on a Floyd. Personally, in my experience, Floyds tend to keep the sound a bit brighter when using the whammy as a slow-ish vibrato... YMMV obviously, depends also on which Floyd you use. Like I said, I love them both.

[@andy_william17]

Imagine evertune decided to take the kahler path. Small routing, much wood left for tone. Also maybe easier to install.

[@garyholtguitarrig1884]

That would be awesome a big reason I never touched the ever tune is because it takes more wood than a floyd at least with what I saw

[@T0tenkampf]

I don't think that mechanism can get much smaller from the one that I installed, which was a nightmare

[@MichaelEMJAYARE]

I have been pining for a bass trem by Kahler ala Les Claypool. But gotdamn the price - like $500 for just the trem, no routing work, etc. Interesting. Do you think a bass would go out of tune way more intensely? Ive heard that from folks but Ive hardly seen people even use them.

[@garyholtguitarrig1884]

they are fairly expensive been looking at them for a future project. and for the question possbibly id make sure you strech your stings good maybe locking tuners since there isnt a string lock for bass sperzel makes them

[@Sabbra]

i am considering a kahler, but man, is $550 with no locking nut =( . I think that the problem is that you do not have third parties making kahlers, floyd got popular cause every brand could make their own floyd

[@deludedreality89]

Yeah, FR licensed their bridge. Kahler never did, AFAIK. You pay more but get a made in USA, high quality bridge. Also, it's isn't exactly a fair comparison since you're comparing a USA Kahler to import Flods. A better price comparison would be between an OFR and the Kahler.

[@who0icu812]

What kahler are you buying?

[@crilf5830]

Floyd is routed at the nut area. "Kay ler" typically has what is called a string lock. behind the nut. But you have a couple weeks experience.

[@Moremetal..]

You look nothing like Gary Holt, whays going on here???

[@garyholtguitarrig1884]

Yeah I'm not Gary I run a page on Instagram where I tone matched his stuff

[@itnefer4787]

@@garyholtguitarrig1884 And you're not showing his rig despite a clickbaity channel name while maintaining you're a guitar tech - pretty lame.

[@garyholtguitarrig1884]

@itnefer4787 Brother, I broke down his rigs years ago at this point Edit on Instagram, not KZbin

[@deludedreality89]

The best option is to have a Kahler fixed bridge. Fine tuning plus no floating nonsense.

[@garyholtguitarrig1884]

I get that but when playing slayer you kinda need it

[@deludedreality89]

@@garyholtguitarrig1884 That's true

[@T0tenkampf]

well on any recent 2300 you have a fixed bridge built in with no extra Tremelno needed

[@deludedreality89]

@@T0tenkampf Yes, it's a very handy feature to have that, but I was talking about it from the perspective of someone wanting a Kahler bridge feel with its fine tuning capability but without wanting to carve a small route or lose the nut they have.

[@charlesb7831]

I wasn't a fan of the Kaler at all, I have 5 Floyd guitars, all with Fu-tone Titanium parts and brass big blocks and they're all stable and very reliable. One thing no one seems to mention Sophia tremolos, I see thm and really want one, they seem to hae fixed all the floating bridge problems on that system, twice the price though lol

[@tippss3332]

Floyd all day long!!!!! Never a problem. People learn how your guitar works and maintenance. You strive to expand our playing but that should also include working on and knowing your guitar!!!!

[@supermodeltaxidermy]

I will buy that jh600 when your ready to sell ❤

[@garyholtguitarrig1884]

It's never happening it's too sentimental sorry man