KALADIN VS VIN (Stormlight VS Mistborn)

Kaladin Stormblessed from the Stormlight Archive VS Vin from Mistborn Era 1. This is a continuation of my fantasy VS series!
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[@DanielGreeneReviews]

Sorry for the reupload y’all 😅 mistakes were made.

[@ryanratchford2530]

Thinking about Vin & mist born’s power & combat capability got me thinking about a pet peeve I have with fantasy. First thought of this when I saw your video. I really dislike how in hero journeys & Master/Student stories, the inexperienced protagonist progresses in magical power & combat skill in a matter of days/ months/ Years (depending on the series) and they progress so much in relatively short time & they exceed the powers & skills of their mentors (even though the mentor’s been practicing for decades) The only real excuse I can see is the whole chosen one/ they’re just really powerful/ naturally gifted. (But that’s really cliche and lazy I feel) And still doesn’t explain why they can beat a 20 year practices sword master after a year (or less) training. I work hard in the series I’m writing, to make my protagonists progress in what feels like a realistic way & matches with everyone else’s in the Iowa of the world I establish. And with a mixture of time jumps between books & hard work, my protagonists eventually get as good as the masters they meet early on. In a realistic and believable way. What are your thoughts? I don’t really see people talk about this trope and I find it to throw me out of stories a lot.

[@mathewstormblessed4706]

Yes and you said that one of Kaladin's best relationships was with Vin :D

[@DeanRuborn]

@Yay Art pewter

[@DeanRuborn]

@Yay Art Coppermind.net does say that pewter gives enhanced healing. But yeah, it's not the same as stormlight healing, you're right.

[@randyrussell2583]

If you ever happen to.check old videos comments sections please do some versus battles for shards of adolnasium. Given how RoW and mistborn have ****************spoilers(you know what I mean)********* or do cognitive shadows vs ..matter of fact just do more cosmere content please. Top three favorite youtube vloggers I am also giddy to hear more about your novel

[@dustinhperkins]

Daniel: Kaladins depression is dealt with in the first book and gone by book 3. Brandon Sanderson: Hold my rootbeer. RHYTHM OF WAR!!!

[@ingvarsuigin609]

Killing more gods: point to Vin Having fewer suicide attempts: point to Vin Surviving book 3: ...

[@zaynemariassouce4016]

I totally laughed out loud.

[@GeneralAblon]

Ooooooh snap!

[@justinkunz8845]

Im gonna pretend i dodnt read tbis comment until i finish book 3

[@yremogtnomnad]

so good XD XD XD

[@Bolitadewien]

Point for Kaladin

[@MrValkilmer35]

"Vin will fight dirty." Like the time Vin was being strangled by that thug in WoA, and she headbutted him and shattered his skull while they were both flaring pewter. Classic Vin.

[@markcastellanet9672]

Well pewter and duralumin. I was thinking the same thing.

[@momsaid]

In what world is that dirty?

[@bryanduke1973]

In a fight to the death there are no rules

[@charthezombiehound8952]

@@bryanduke1973 A headbutt is generally seen as a lowblow, but I agree in a fight for ones life there's no such thing as fighting dirty, there are the survivors and the dead.

[@somekidwithaphone3345]

There’s no such thing as a fair fight

[@juliand6317]

One thing not touched on is Vin’s ability to riot and sooth emotion, which unless a shard plate helmet can help with, means Kaladin is entirely vulnerable to psychological attacks. Emotion being something Kaladin struggles with anyway.

[@SilvrSavior]

Vin hardly touched emotional allomancy in a fight though. The only real times I recall her doing so was to gain control over Koloss. Soothing or rioting emotions in a fight can be tough without burning duralamin to boost it. It could lead to a bad situation as well if she tried it under pressure and does not have time to turn off her pewter first or something. Most fights are to hectic to count on those to gain advantage of you are in the fray.

[@jeffreyp1855]

@@SilvrSavior , I think, Vin was just too damned aggressive to mess around with soothing emotions very much. 🤘

[@thomasluckau9482]

Generally, Mistborn don't use emotional Allomancy for fighting. It would be useful, but it might be a distraction to the Mistborn, a bit like trying to talk to someone during a fistfight. Anyone who has actually been in a fight knows you don't have time for that, and trying us pointless at best and going to get you killed at worst. Vin would only use this if she had a reason to believe it would work better than her normal tactics, which means she'd have to know more about how the Knights work and by that point it's a totally different fight

[@imuncreative1626]

Julian D Kal: walks up Vin: burns brass Kal: curls up and cries while lashing him self upwards

[@chrislayman538]

@@thomasluckau9482 read Codex Alera for some good examples of using talking and emotional manipulation to win fights.

[@saraholivares4747]

Re: the depiction of anxiety and depression in each character. I think Kaladin is a good example of how someone can have a good childhood and loving parents and still end up with depression, and Vin is a good example of someone whose traumatic and unusually adverse childhood shaped her anxiety into almost an adaptive part of her personality. Kaladin is aware that his thoughts are irrational and often hinder him from growing, and it’s a good reminder that people can’t often just will themselves out of their mental illness. Vin, however, would tell you she doesn’t have anxiety at all - she’s just adapted to her environment, you’re the one who’s not vigilant enough. Vin’s internal struggle with her emotions becomes part of her personality in a way I don’t think it does with Kaladin, even though both experience the effects their mental illness has on their thoughts, worldview, and relationships. For this reason, I do think Vin deserves the point, because even though both are valid experiences, I think Vin is a more difficult depiction to write with the kind of compassion and nuance that Brandon accomplished.

[@e22ddie46]

I think by book 4, Kal has to be viewed as just having PTSD. Obviously he has depression, but it's well beyond normal anxiety.

[@saraholivares4747]

@@e22ddie46 Oh sure definitely by book 4, especially after the battle at the palace in Kohlinar and the specific deaths there. I wrote this comment a year ago before book 4, by Oathbringer Kaladin was still just struggling with his lifelong major depression, but I do think we were beginning to see how that kind of struggle makes a person more susceptible to PTSD when a traumatic event does finally occur.

[@wheelhouse15]

Kal's depression was not social depression, it was more along the lines clinical depression so that is a biochemical imbalance and can strike anyone regardless of circumstances. On that note, I think Kal actually had dysphoria with bouts of depression and anxiety.

[@edgardtheknowledgekeeper3119]

One thing I would like to correct is Kaladin's depression. It is very present in book 3. When the city is attacked his Parshmen friends and his squad kill each other and he is stricken with severe depression and loss, he was very distraught by what happened and when Adolin was injured and Syl was trying to get him to say his next oaths he was so set on not leaving Adolin that he couldn't, if I remember he broke down crying. A side note to that scene is that because he refused to say his next oaths I think the next set will have something to do with letting go of those you know you cannot save.

[@mathewstormblessed4706]

Ya it really is his whole problem with knowing people on both sides. Kaladin will continue to have this depression I believe.

[@Clovericious]

TBH Vin could probably win against Kaladin by burning Duralumin and rioting his depression. Whiny boi would keel over like he did during the scene you described.

[@edgardtheknowledgekeeper3119]

@@Clovericious Well she would have to know to pull on his depression in the first place which she wouldn't because she can't read emotions she can only push and pull on them. As well I really don't think there's anything she can do to him. Not disrespecting Vin, but Stormlight regeneration powers are pretty impressive considering they healed a Shardblade wound. Coins really wouldn't do anything to him and after a few times he could always reverse lashing an object to direct all the coins away from him and while her pewter strength might overpower him he would have the Syl blade up close which would kill Vin with a single slash. She might be able to use duralamin to push towards him really fast and cut his throat or something but I'm pretty sure stormlight could heal that and her duralamin attacks are unpredictable even for her so she could easily push herself right into Kaladin's spear and if she's doing it from too far away she wouldn't see it coming because the spear isn't real metal.

[@Kiwiasbrooo]

I feel like his depression is a massive part of why he doesn't achieve the 4th ideal

[@TomBob88]

On the next oath part I am of 2 minds, I agree that this is probably the next Ideal but on the other hand I think this would be the hardest ideal for him based on everything so far and so may be saved for his 5th ideal to complete his journey to becoming a full radiant where finally lets go of all those deaths and realizing there was nothing more he could have done and it's not his fault which would complete his character growth.

[@changboyz]

Interesting, but I wonder how many points Kaladin lost to Vin due to the fact that there are just more deeper characters in the Storm Light Archive. For example, while Kaladin is clearly the main character of Way of Kings, that point could be argued for the other books in he really isn't the main character. While Vin is clearly the main character of all three books.

[@zaynemariassouce4016]

Good point. The characters in their stories are designed for different roles. Vin is built up to be the solo hero vs evil whereas Kaladin is only meant to be part of a team. If you wanna make it more even, give Kaladin access to ALL surgebinding since Vin has access to ALL allomancy. 😆

[@nadie9058]

A Knight Radiant with controll of all ten Surges would be a MONSTER, if you could get him to fight like that against Vin while holding all the power of the mist like the final battle with the inquisitors it may be fair

[@nadie9058]

I know, I was responding to the other comment: “give Kaladin access to ALL surgebinding since Vin has access to ALL allomancy”

[@jaredhenley4589]

The entire point of TSA is every book is about a different character. kaladin, shallan, dalinar, and then venli. Era 2 is more about the heralds but will have renarin and jasnah as the main character. Vin is the protagonist, but she is arguably not the main character, she isn't (nessesarily) the chosen one/hero of ages. I mean, she 'dies' like halfway through the last book. It's more about the HoA.

[@somekidwithaphone3345]

No book 1 is kelsier story book 2 is vins and book 3 is elends

[@tomnorman6165]

7:10 "Kaladin's strongest relationships are with Vin, Shalan and probably Dalanar" WHAAA?? You meant Syl right? Unless you have some crazy insider knowledge about cross-cosmere hookups?

[@telzen8774]

He didn't count her because she isn't human, clearly racist. /s

[@cdubbau135]

I was trying to think, "who is Vin?" in Stormlight. I thought he meant Syl too and he just had a Freudian slip. But Telzen could be right and Daniel has something against spren🤔.

[@meostafford]

possible right

[@e22ddie46]

He's clearly been reading too much of the cosmere fanfic.

[@nicokrasnow1851]

I heard Lyn rather than Vin 🤔

[@theoperumal5174]

"Kaladin's depression was mostly dealt with in the first book." 😂 After ROW Kaladin should def win this point back

[@dan3pro273]

I was about to comment this exact thing 😂

[@bobmcbill100]

I know this video is almost 5 months old, but I would like to add one thing. Vin's healing factor is peanuts compared to Kaladin's. He literally can regrow limbs. Vin can take a pounding, and keep fighting, but then die as soon as she runs out of pewter. As we see with Dalinar, he took a sword through the chest and laughed. Shallan took a crossbow to the head and was okay. If Vin was hit in the head with a crossbow bolt she would be super dead. I think Kaladin could simply outlast her in any fight, as could any radiant.

[@thomasluckau9482]

She would realize the healing factor quickly, though. She's fought and won against Inquisitors with healing factors about as good as Kaladin's before. Yay feruchemy! I really think that it still comes down to who can waste the other's resources most effectively. Not to say that Kal is equivalent to an Inquisitor, of course. I just mean to say that things like the enemy being able to heal better don't always matter that much against Vin.

[@markcastellanet9672]

She's dealt with people with incredible healing. She manages her resources well. She may not know how long it takes Kal to run out, but she will stay out of his way until he does. Steal and iron last a really long time too.

[@catmoonkenobi]

How's Vin getting hit burning atium though?

[@brighamrichins3]

Spoiler warning for book 4: I think the biggest point to vin is she has a more balanced tool kit. Sure she can’t fly as well as kalladin or resist damage as well, but she has access to more tools. Kaladin is a powerhouse in his investiture, but is more limited in his actions. ( I believe by honors design, so people don’t have powers without some sort of check like using spren). If kaladin pushes his advantage and goes for a quick fight I believe he would win. But if vin could evade him, or drag it out for a trap or weakness, she’d probably win. Now do we wish to see an op one of them. Give them a hemolurgic spike containing the others powers.) Also spoilers for row: Kaladin has shardplate now, it’s going to take more from vin to take him down.

[@logmirontis6625]

moment with crossbow was really funny

[@AS-rh7mg]

It's worth noting that while Vin is undoubtedly the main character of original Mistborn, Kaladin is only one protagonist among many. Their roles in the story differ greatly.

[@DoggyP00]

A lot of people would argue that book 1 is Kelsier's story from Vin's point of view and book 2 is equal Elend and Vin's story

[@somekidwithaphone3345]

DoggyPoo no book 2 is vins book 3 is elends

[@DoggyP00]

@@somekidwithaphone3345 nah, Elend finished his story in book 2

[@somekidwithaphone3345]

DoggyPoo then you obviously didn’t pay very good attention to book 3

[@DoggyP00]

@@somekidwithaphone3345 Didn't realize misborn was such a simple, black and white story like you're describing

[@angaeldavis9019]

Regarding Kaladin's development in Books 2 and 3: Kaladin suffers from chronic depression and has since he was young (theres a lot of mental illness in TSA

[@iacobuseurus509]

It is Shallen

[@shirohebisama8014]

Anyone can make a typo it seems :)

[@momsaid]

Osprey's World it’s actually Shallan hahaha

[@jayenright]

Well Sanderson himself has stated that Kaladin beats Vin on the battlefield, so if we are going a straight up fight, its Kaladin.

[@nadie9058]

Unless Vin has the mist like in The Hero of Ages

[@Loganva]

Nadie i don’t think we’re counting godhood lmao

[@Bolitadewien]

I think Kaladin wins if he shoot Vin to sky with the stormlight If that don't happend, I don't now who wins

[@nadie9058]

Linuxy well, she could pull herself to the ground, she just have to find a good anchor

[@Bolitadewien]

@@nadie9058 Yes For that, I don't now who can win: the battle is same for the two (talking in power)

[@fayejennlee801]

I felt like for most of Kaliden’s trip through shadesmar in book 3 he was dealing with his depression

[@MissHolliday3110]

I'd say Vin's strongest relationships are Elend and Sazed.

[@pspdownloaderplus]

Hey Daniel, I know it may be a bit more work, but I think the who would do better in the other's world category is worth doing even if it isn't needed. Keep up the great work, and I'll keep watching regardless.

[@SilvrSavior]

I think an interesting, and underdeveloped, component of Kaladin's power set is how he interacts with the wind spreen. It will be interesting to see how it pans out since he was able to hold back the winds of a High Storm. The slight precognition while in a fight is also not really mentioned here either. Not as amazing as Atium precognition is but still great in a cqc fight. Reverse lashings would be a great method to neutralize the projectiles Vin could launch. Or just straight up tanking if need be because SL healing is busted. Vin definitely wins on the versatility of powers. Preservation was very, very kind when bestowing investiture to the people he and Ruin created.

[@k-rodkev-dog7449]

Why is no one talkimg about how a reverse lashing could heavily counter vins projectiles???

[@momsaid]

Not just projectiles but her entire mobility. He could just lash her to the ground and shove Syl through her

[@frking100]

@@momsaid I interpreted your last comment as sexual and then i remembered that Syl can turn into a sword/spear. And now im wondering id Syl could do the antman strategy of flying up someones holes and turning into a weapon killing people from inside.

[@imuncreative1626]

frking100 I think Kal would have to be touching Syl so. Kal could be a very sexual assassin.

[@k-rodkev-dog7449]

@@imuncreative1626 no, he just need to spray the ground

[@somekidwithaphone3345]

He couldn’t reverse lash the entire fight tho also it says in the second book she can jump a good 7 feet in the air with pewter

[@gerardmagrasso4184]

Regarding the fight, I don't think Vin could defeat Kaladin, mostly because of their healing factors (which, as I remember, Vin does NOT have) and due to Kaladin's Shardblade-Syl being able to simply oneshot Vin regardless of all her additional resistance. She could maybe try to jump with a coin and steel to evade that but I think that the second she leaves the ground and goes flying, she totally loses (the sky is Kaladin's, after all) due to the lack of mobility she has compared to Kaladin. Additionally, Kaladin could also, IDK, cut a whole wall or big ass rock and throw it at her at full speed with his stormlight, but that's off to the speculation point in my opinion. TL;DR: yeah, I see some scenario when Vin could maybe take Kaladin, but he has a much greater chance of winning as I see it.

[@azgonath1937]

Pewter did have regenerative effects on a Thug/Mistborn, but a much weaker dosage. She needed weeks of recovery after the Inquisitor's axe in book 1, and that was with a constant supply of pewter. Stormlight on the other hand has a much more powerful healing effect, not far from rapid regenerative healing (like wolverine). Kaladin would definately be able to sustain a heck of a lot more damage than Vin could. But if Vin were to use her soothing more in combat, like the Lord Ruler did, she could break Kaladin's spirit and gain the upper hand... I have run this thought experiment several times and I believe it all stands on the circumstances. In a "duell" I think Kaladin might have a slight advantage. But if Vin knew who Kaladin was and wanted him dead... Ashweather Cett and Straff Venture can tell you about that. Woops, maybe not Straff.

[@niccoloparker3548]

@@azgonath1937 Daniel is not really paying attention. While with Duralinium( whatever that metal name was). Vin is physically above Kaladin. However lets not forget that a lower ranked and by ranked I mean progress in terms of being a radiant was able to survive deadly stabs through the head and chest. In book 2. Jasnah survived as well. Kaladin has survived in a literal high storm strung up by Sadeas with just his healing factor. Then he took 2 more oaths. Based on these feats he just heals way to fast for Vin to kill him. Also Kaladin as a wind runner can fly in the sky which gives him an edge in mobile movement. Moreover he can hamper Vin ability to fly by just lashing different objects such as the anchors Vin uses during steel push and pulling or Vin herself. That would catch Vin too off balance when she tries to run and recover her metal supply. Moreover Kaladin can just lash the metals away or dodge. And can just form a shield with Syl. Similarly with stormlight he would be stronger. While on Oath 1 level he was able to greatly damage a couple of sections of a Shardplate and knock out the enemy I think. At the expense of breaking his feet. He was in public and only used a light amount of stormlight. Which would decrease his strength, agility etc. Regardless he was still able to recover his feet through healing near instantaneously All of this puts his physical stats way above Vin. So if they meet up at some night. Kaladin just wins straight out. Even with atium. Atium allows you to see a few seconds into the future and process stuff better. But if your opponent is much faster stronger and has a one hit weapon. While Vin has to take multiple swipes to take Kaladin out in quick succession. I on on book 2 of the stormlight archive.

[@ameyaagarwal1170]

ATIUM boi

[@gerardmagrasso4184]

@@ameyaagarwal1170 Even with atium, I think Vin couldn't beat Kal. It would be extremely beneficial for her to escape, tho xD

[@wingracer1614]

@@ameyaagarwal1170 Vin + atium beats pretty much anyone that isn't mistborn with atium or whatever the fake atium is.

[@brandonthomas6574]

In the relationship section I would say Kal & Syl’s relationship is another intriguing one.

[@edentoke6679]

he said vin but I'm sure he meant syl

[@TrashPanda90914]

Kal and Teft have a great relationship too

[@Theis_Ejsing]

I totally agree that Vin takes the fight after book 3 of Stormlight. But I bet Kaladin at book 5 will have his Sylph armor and power ups. At that point, he'll stomp Vin.

[@davidsandlin9686]

Theis Ejsing no way Vin beats a full radiant. She can’t heal and a shardblade would destroy her.

[@Clovericious]

No Shardplate would be a match for Vin wielding Preservation's power. Shardplate might be invested, but as seen with the Inquisitor spikes and Rashek's bands you CAN push invested metal if you're powerful enough. Depending on how Invested Shardplate is a Mistborn burning Duralumin & Steel could toss a Shardbearer around like a toy.

[@davidsandlin9686]

Beige yeah unless Kaladin gives himself a double lashing and Vin throws herself. Pushing something heavier than yourself means you move not them. If she has the full powers of preservation then I agree Vin would win but as just a mistborn Kaladin wins everytime.

[@Livingeidolon]

I think what all of you are forgetting is nicrosil. Nicrosil dispels Investiture. Even a full radiant is nothing without stormlight Edit chromium I mean

[@miszamojcyszschmidt1746]

@@Livingeidolon Vin doesn't have chromium.

[@elrilmoonweaver4723]

Kaladin isn't well defined in my mind as a character because the series is not done yet. But Vin has a beginning and an end to her story and she is truly most favorite character of all the books I've read. I connected with her in ways I don't normally do with other characters from books I read - which is why I spent 2 days crying like a baby after I finished Mistborn era 1. ^^

[@jamieh3100]

Really awesome and thought out comparison. I agree with all points!

[@Numalex6690]

I havent watched more than a minute yet but given that you are talking about such epic characters and the video length is literally 1337 I will sub and give you a solid 👍.

[@lisethweeks5352]

At 7:11 you said that one of Kaladin's best relationships is with Vin haha

[@lisethweeks5352]

loved the video tho

[@reecenaidu6020]

Lol yeah. I was like, 'Wait wot?' He totally meant Syl

[@jayliewillard7714]

I was dying with laughter. "Vin's a World-hopper?"Lel

[@ardinhelme687]

If only it were possible, I have a feeling that they'd get along, after they finished trying to murder each other...

[@anobjectiveninja]

One thing to consider is a head-on fight between Vin and Kaladin is Vin's ability to influence the emotions of an edgy, sometimes suicidal, but almost always depressed Kaladin. With Brass and Zinc alone (and maybe some Duralamin), Vin would be able to defeat Kaladin even if he had an infinite supply of Stormlight.

[@nicokrasnow1851]

After reading RoW I must advice you, Kaladin at his lowest is lethal as fuck

[@TrashPanda90914]

@@nicokrasnow1851 fr 😂 he really got lowballed in this video.

[@jadabower674]

I feel like the relationships point should have gone to Vin, because her whole development is based off the idea of learning how to have good healthy relationships with people. Yes Kaladin has some awesome relationships, but I feel like they are not as important to his story (aside from maybe Syl).

[@xcBlackDiamond]

I'm happy you gave Kaladin the origin point, I felt strongly about him winning there.

[@gutentagmeinfreund3790]

Step 1: Kaladin sticks Vin to the Floor Step 2: Kaladin uses syl to protect himself from Coins etc. Step 3: Kaladin gets close and kills her with syl

[@markcastellanet9672]

He has to touch her to stick her to the floor and if she's close enough for him to touch, she's close enough to put her head through his skull.

[@gutentagmeinfreund3790]

@@markcastellanet9672 I am not sure that he does... Dalinar at least can infuse a large area with stormlight

[@markcastellanet9672]

@@gutentagmeinfreund3790 different character, different power set.

[@gutentagmeinfreund3790]

@@markcastellanet9672 you're propably right

[@deevee5327]

Sanderson said Invested characters cannot be lashed. It's investiture against investiture. So long as Vin is burning any metal (and, boy, we know she goes through them like crazy) she cannot be lashed. However, she'd still lose because Shardblades are beyond devastating and Stormlight regeneration is gross. Also Sanderson, himself, said Kaladin would win against Vin on an even battlefield, so...

[@EvilMoW]

When Kaladin does get his plate, I wonder if it'll break like other Shardplates do. It'll be made of Syl, so if it does break, won't it be able to repair much faster (like in mid-battle) compared to non-radiant plate? We've yet to see a full radiant (i.e. Dalinar's visions) get their plate damaged. I don't recall Vin using emotional Allomancy much -if ever- in fights. It's too chaotic to really control. Unless she depression bombs him, Kaladin should have a warriors pragmatism to endure and win. I think even if Vin does use emotional Allomancy, Kaladin would be affected, but he has Syl to act as a emotional booster. A 'you can do it!' sort of thing. Outside of battle he can get real down, but only in the Oathbringer battle in the palace does he really get immobilized. That was an ideological struggle for him (who do i protect?), not a straight up fight (i need to win!) Plus his shear healing factor. If Shallan can survive a bolt to the head, there's not a lot that Vin can do that with hit Kaladin fast/hard enough to kill him.

[@thomasluckau9482]

Healing factor hasn't always stopped Vin before. She has killed Inquisitors who had pretty good healing factors before. Besides, she hits hard. He will have to expend Stormlight every time he heals, and heck we even know that head blows can make Radiants brains not function well (see also: Shallan reduced to incoherence and dull-mindedness while recovering from a headshot.) I still think Kal might win this fight, but healing doesn't make that big of a difference for Vin.

[@marbled31]

I don't think Shardplate will be made of the Radiant in question's spren. It seems clear that Windrunner shardplate will be made of wind spren, the way they swarm around Kaladin in the books. I'm going to guess that Lightweavers plate is made of creation spren with how often they show up around Shallan.

[@karlfranzemperorofmandefil5547]

@@marbled31 Kaladin also points out that Shardplate feels different then blades. It's not dead (seen as how he can use it in Book 2 as a source of Stormlight, encasing his hand as a gauntlet even tough it's a helmet also proving it can change its form which Dead spren can't )

[@josuedominguez770]

I can just imagine Vin jumping as high as when she sparred with Ham at the start of HoA, and Kaladin forcing Vin to the ground with a lashing. But knowing Kal, he'll probably fall upwards and gloat. Syl popping up to gloat even harder.

[@safinan8008]

Hi from uk 🇬🇧 I like both characters vin and kaladin!!! Happy reading to u!!

[@ryanratchford2530]

How do you imagine “Role they play in the world they’re in”? I always find it to be the hardest to understand. What qualities make it good or bad?

[@ryanratchford2530]

Also I quite like the set up

[@DanielGreeneReviews]

It's a mixture of two perspectives. 1. The literal role. What is their purpose? Is it original? Implications of the role? Does it fit the narrative/world well? 2. Execution. What did the author bring to the role? Was it engaging? clear/concise? Etc. It becomes a bit muddled when the author is the same, due to similarities is how role will be handled.

[@monomanamaniac]

All arguments are squashed when you consider vin at the very end of her story. She took the body of a god inside of her and bested over a dozen guys who'd all give her a run for her money. She went infinite. And relationships, man you gotta read the last book again, she has to watch the love of her life die and in that moment gained the strength to literally kill a god. Damn good reading

[@zaynemariassouce4016]

So wait till the very end of Kaladins story. But Kaladin isn't designed to be the sole power against evil like Vin was built up to be. If you wanna use a god-powered character in a fight then put that person up against another god-powered character. Like Preservation Vin vs Jane Foster or something lol.

[@momsaid]

Chris Kyger doesn’t she give it away tho? Meaning she doesn’t have the god powers anymore?

[@somekidwithaphone3345]

Jacob Trudell oh you poor misguided fool read HoA first then come back ok

[@monomanamaniac]

@@momsaid in the second book, but in the third book she absorbed the god preservation and then killed herself to kill the god ruin. She literally becomes a god and kills a god

[@monomanamaniac]

@@somekidwithaphone3345 right. I've never read kaladins story, but even if you just go mists absorbed vin she's gotta be one of the most overpowered characters in fiction

[@dianneheathcoe6974]

This is not fair. I love them both! AUGGG

[@noneofyourbusiness3288]

I would love to see your take on potential actors you would cast for each character and why :D idk maybe its own format ?

[@pokedoctor2087]

My favorite vs so far. The love for these characters is felt. The Sylspear can damage Vin in ways she.doesn't expect, but ascended Vin can end the fight easily.

[@zaynemariassouce4016]

We've seen Vins peak but we haven't seen Kaladins yet. But I'm not sure if Sanderson will give Kaladin something as OP as preservation, because he designed multiple characters to be able to do some amazing things, but didn't allow one character to have ALL the abilities. So it's hard to put Vin who can do it all against Kaladin who only gets the windrunner set of surgebinding. Yes he is not complete yet but I don't think he will get anything like preservation power because it doesn't seem like it's that kind of a story. Put her up against someone who has all the power like Saitama or someone lol. (that was a joke)

[@charlottestewart1851]

love this old intro 😄

[@cad2786]

Would love to see this updated after Book 4 of Stormlight came out!

[@EileenNestman]

Daniel: "Vin's not afraid to fight dirty" Me a small woman: Duh, she's a small woman. We would do whatever we can to survive.

[@mysticmajestic2360]

With Kaladin, a lot of the time he had in books 2 and 3 were given over to other characters. In book 1, we follow mostly him. Now he's sharing page time. Vin is pretty much the only person we follow in the Mistborn trilogy aside from Kelsier in book 1 and a few characters here and there in two and three. Kaladin is one cog in the machine - a very big one, yes, but not the only one.

[@kingblackthorn4195]

I think when looking to Vin many, many people forget if she has Atium it does not matter. It states if one has Atium they are invincible. The only way to counter Atium is to burn Atium yourself.

[@SoroEyail]

if kal can get his hands on vin and use adhesion to stick her in one spot he wins, but if he can't because atium or pewter, vin wins

[@mathewstormblessed4706]

I feel like I had a hand in prompting this video :D I do have a few comments on the Kal vs Vin fight. You did not mention that Kaladin can literally fly and so can Vin but not as easily. Also Vin does not have a healing factor, she can simply stay up far longer because of pewter. Vin could use the metal around her to fight him, but she usually goes straight for shooting coins. I think Kaladin would be able to dodge some (he is really fast and dodged a lot of parshendi arrows near the end) and heal through any that hit him. Kaladin can also lash things (like Vin to the sky) or coins to a certain object. A lot of this depends on how much stormlight Kaladin is carrying, and or if Vin has atium. Also I would like to mention that Kaladin could change Syl into anything, including a blade. This would allow him to disable or kill Vin instantly if he hit her. She also couldn't block his blade at all. For me I think he would win as long as she did not have atium. Great video as always :D

[@edgardtheknowledgekeeper3119]

Very good points I didn't consider the reverse lashing. Any coins or flying metals coming at him he could direct into a object he fused with stormlight. I had kinda forgotten for a moment that the coins are just being shot in a general direction instead of being attracted to their target. And the flying is definitely a big factor because he has a lot of maneuverability but Vin kinda does too with her pushes and pulls, but Kaladin's is definitely better or more efficient. And his sword or spear is definitely unblockable. If he gets her arm or leg she looses a lot of her capacity to move around.

[@oneukum]

He has to touch her to lash her. If it would even work on a mistborn.. He would be limited to missiles. He could of course get away. In terms of flight he clearly is superior.

[@edgardtheknowledgekeeper3119]

@@oneukum Well without actual crossovers to confirm there's no real reason to assume that a lashing wouldn't work. I could however see her pull on some metal from buildings or somewhere trying to pull herself back to earth.

[@oneukum]

Lashing very invested objects does not work. Mistborn are quite invested. And presumably she could burn aluminium. Albeit only if she carries it. The real problem with lashing her is that he needs to touch her to lash her. Coming that close to an allomancer with pewter and duraluminium is not wise. And if he is that close, why not use his blade?

[@edgardtheknowledgekeeper3119]

@@oneukum Invested objects can't be lashed but There's nothing that says Invested people can't be lashed, people and objects are different. Kaladin can lash Shallon.

[@Ariastes707]

Watching this after Rythm of War. Kaladin depression has been handled in the first book? Bruh. Man creates the entire field of group therapy to try to deal 😂

[@separator94]

Interesting video. I haven't read either series yet but am very interested in them. Although I'm a reader, I have yet to read a fantasy novel. Would you suggest one series over the other? I've heard from many people that Stormlight is Sanderson's best work to date and surpasses what he was able to accomplish with Mistborn. I have nothing to base this on but a lot of reader reviews however. The world of The Stormlight Archive sounds more interesting to me but I haven't read as much about the Mistborn world. If there's another fantasy series you think I should read as my gateway into modern fantasy I'm all ears. I'm really looking for something that is going to blow me away and really get me into fantasy as a genre. Something with characters I'll seriously care about. Something that will keep me hooked and interested in till the very end. Something I will not want to let go of. These characters both sound really interesting to me. Especially Vin. However, even though I believe great characters are the most important thing when it comes to writing books, there are a lot of other things that play a role as well. Like story arc, world building, lore, pacing, and atmosphere. Also writing style. (I've only read a couple dozen books so far and my favorites out of those are It by Stephen King, 1984 by George Orwell, and Jurassic Park by Michael Crichton. All of which had seriously great characters. Especially "It". I tried reading The Stand but one of the characters was torture for me to read. I got about 300 pages in and had to take a break from it. Perhaps I've just been reading too muck King lately and need a change of pace.)

[@Maverick8t88]

separator94 mistborn is one of the greatest fantasy series ever. Definitely a good place to start. I also highly recommend Elantris by Brandon Sanderson. Possibly my favorite of his novels.

[@Ryan-rq6dx]

Big question, could a duralumin enhanced coin shot pierce shard plate? Because once a kr gets their plate i think an allomancer is done for

[@MrMynts]

reading the 4th book of stormlight, this aged like milk.

[@afilthycasualplays4007]

Regarding the fight...they do both have healing factors, but Kaladin can land an absolute killing blow with a shot to her spine or neck which she cannot duplicate as we have seen that stormlight can heal you from just about anything, supposing you had enough. I dunno. I still think Vin wins it because of her fighting techniques and use of ranged attacks, but I think its important to remember that if Kaladin could close with her, his formal training and one shot killing blow (pewter ain't helping no-one when your soul is dead) could pull things a little more in his favor. As usual, super great video man, keep it up! I have rarely found a Tuber that I watch so many videos straight through to the end.

[@merrecklorregan853]

I'm honestly not sure if her ranged projectiles would be super effective as claimed if Kaladin uses a reverse lashing on an object. Even if it doesn't pull it directly towards the invested object, it would still mess with Vin's aim a lot. A point I think Daniel neglected in his analysis.

[@josephreusch]

One correction for the actual fight, Vin does NOT have healing powers. She has pewter which can let her body forget about major injuries but does not actually make it any less likely that she will die once her pewter runs out. She is not a feruchemist with stored gold so I would give the edge to Kaladin. I also have no idea how she could counteract the sylblade provided Kaladin gets close enough to use it, I don't think pewter or any allomantic metal will aid her given one swipe of a shard through her central nervous system. Of course she could have an aluminum (lets say Kolloss) sword, but she likely wouldn't know about the property of aluminum to resist or counteract invested objects. Overall great video! Loved it!

[@ConiferF]

I have a feeling you should look where the fight takes place. If it's in Kaladin's world where all buildings are made of stone and metal may only be on doors and windows, I would think Vin would have a tougher fight. But it has been a while since I read either series.

[@oneukum]

If you want a hard fight between a Surgebinder and a Mistborn, take a Skybreaker.

[@Clovericious]

This guy gets it. Skybreakers are the better Windrunners.

[@ho1d._195]

@@Clovericious well we haven't even seen skybreakers that much aside from szeth at the end of oathbringer so idk

[@bryanduke1973]

Sky breakers have division and gravity so they fly and destroy ?

[@connorchristensen4281]

Hey man, I totally agree on all your points. I can tell you've read these books a lot and care about them and their characters, I just have to disagree in the fighting section. I'm sorry I don't want to get all mad at you but I just feel like you didn't mention Kaladin's Windrunner abilities at all, if there are nails and coins flying around at him and stuff he can use his power of adhesion like he did while running bridges to force them to go in different directions, and if it's anything big than Syl can cut through anything. He also has all of his gravitation powers so he could easily keep up with Vin if she was trying to "hit and run" And even though yes Vin does fight scrapier, Kaladin took down a Shardbearer years before he got his powers with nothing but a basic spear, and during the end of Mistborn Era 1 Vin relies so heavily on her metals that if she's not constantly burning pewter she will be very disoriented and possibly pass out. It does depend on where they are considering that if it was in Roshar then there would be spheres everywhere that Kaladin could use and he rarely doesn't have a full bag of infused spheres on him anymore. I think that the fight would go to Kaladin, please reply if you disagree, I'd be happy to hear your reasoning.

[@aliteraleclair7686]

so now that rhythm of war is out, would you change any points?

[@LiftedStarfish]

Imma agree with all of these other comments that you GREATLY overlooked a lot of the things that Stormlight provides over Allomancy, and how lethal the Sylspear is.

[@markcastellanet9672]

Vin exploded a guy's head with a head bunt. That was next level. Now if this was in front of a high storm, then kaladin would take it easy. But it isn't.

[@IrishCollegeGirl]

Yeah, Kaladin's biggest advantage is the sky. Vin wouldn't be able to do that, but then again, she would have no desire to stay floating in the air with him. She would wait until he ran out of Stormlight and/or came back down. I don't think the people that say that Kaladin would win hands down realize that Vin has fought foes with a large array of powers and abilities, but Kaladin doesn't have that varied experience (mostly hand to hand combat, and a few of the surgebindings). While Vin would be surprised by a shifting weapon, that's pretty much it (she's dealt with practically instantaneous healing, moving through the air in various directions, increased speed/strength/endurance, etc). I don't think Kaladin could grasp all of Vin's abilities right away and would likely underestimate her, to his downfall.

[@ryanvance1020]

would your opinion on kaladin’s arc change now that RoW is out?

[@MorriganReads]

I think Vin would win solely cause Kaladin would hesitate. Vin is easily underestimated, she’s small, she’s young, and if you don’t know what she’s capable of she looks harmless. Vin would immediately go for the throat, no hesitation.

[@Seigmoraig1]

I would love to see a video about Tavore Paran (Malazan)

[@orion3threat]

Vin would obviously win in a fight. If you judge by canon, NOT the book covers, Vin is small and petite, and would probably remind Kaladin a little of his shortie brother Tien, so Kal, unfortunately, he would barely even be able to land a hit, if he was able to even raise a blade or spear (or other- sylspear!) against her. Of course, you can disagree. You could argue that Vin's latent confidence... and lack of playfulness, I guess is the best way to put that, might keep that Tien reminder at bay. I respect that, and it makes some sense, but I still think Vin would win.

[@jim.rnilsen9]

TL;DR Kaladin can fly better, heals faster, has a living shardblade he wins I will have to disagree on who would win a fight for several reasons. Firstly I think Kaladin simply has more advantages and is superior in comparable aspects First mobility Pewter will increase Vin's speed but I don't think it would be much faster if any than stormlight infused Kaladin, but the most determining factor in this category must be that Kaladin can basically fly... Vin can push on metals and achieve a similar effect but Kaladin's flying is inarguably superior. Healing I might be remembering this incorrectly but I don't think Vin has any healing. Pewter will allow her to take and survive more damage but no direct healing. Kaladin's healing is fast and effective so he wins this one as well. Vin's biggest strengths IMO are projectile attacks. this is somewhat countered by Kaladin's ability to manipulate projectile and his '''shield'' but is still her best chance to win. Kaladin's biggest strengths are superior flying, superior healing, bindings if he touches her he can bind her to the ground a wall or the sky. Syl- can't be blocked goes past anything instant death of the person or limb she also transforms her form she, Kaladin can go from a sword to a spear in an instant. she is also a shield and your point in Vin's favor that she can refill fast I would argue is void since he can do it faster and can also do it in combat, that is unless you are saying that she can bring more resources and he can not...

[@Clovericious]

Point of contention: Vin's biggest strength is her intelligence and cunning. I know that's not something you can measure very well but Kaladin is a knucklehead compared to her. He fights like an honorable soldier, Vin fights using every dirty trick she can think of.

[@jim.rnilsen9]

I don't think you are right on that, not on all of it at least, while she might be more cunning than Kaladin. I don't think we have any real basis to claim that she is vastly more intelligent than Kaladin and he is by no means a knucklehead at least not in my opinion. he is after all he is trained as a surgeon from a young age and has proven to be capable and a fast learner. To be honest I don't know how much being a bit more cunning would help in a straight up fight against Kaladin.

[@Livingeidolon]

Chromium dispels Investiture so that takes out pretty much all of Kaladin's power. Bendalloy makes up the speed difference.

[@rodolfokauenhofen672]

@@Livingeidolon she never new of those metals so that argument is immediate invalid

[@TheAxmore]

Kal also basically has the same projectile attacks that vin does since he can lash objects in any direction

[@traytonkeller4402]

How much would shard plate do in that fight?

[@RockChalk263]

Nails aren't doing jackshit to shard plate. Vin's Atium still gives her the edge right now though - and let's be clear, she absolutely would need to use it or she'd get roflstomped.

[@phenix1947]

Daniel about Kaladin's depression: [It's] kind of handled within the first book and occasionally pops up i the second and has almost been entirely been forgotten in the third 4th SA book: you've been heard

[@kylehall9333]

Just started stormlight and im guessing there are spoilers about Kaladin in this?

[@cmorin012]

Brotherhood in Bridge 4 is awesome, but the brotherhood with the Malazans is also pretty amazing.

[@jakebishop7822]

I think in the fight is that Kaladins healing is vastly better, in the final empire vin almost dies from taking a stab wound to the gut, and it takes her weeks to recover, on the other had we see people use stormlight to regrow entire limbs. I still think Vin probably takes it because Kaladin runs out of stormlight, but in the early game I think kaladin has an advantage because his weapon is basically an instant kill which Vin will not be able to heal from. That being said if vin hits him with a something while using duraluminum and pewter stormlight isn't gonna regrow a head, but using duraluminum in a fight agasint someone like Kaladin is risky. I still agree with your result, I just think the difference in healing is worth mentioning.

[@kmcbride0808]

Brandon has answered the fight questions a few times and it always comes down to situation and if a mistborn has access to atium. The thing I’m curious about is have we seen the full potential of what lashings can do, if Kaladin can lash something to attract things to it like he does with the arrows in TWoK it takes her ability to push things at him effectively. But with atium kaladin probably isn’t able to hit her. So they both run out of investiture and decide to just be friends and kill everyone else instead.

[@christopherneedham9584]

Atium burns incredibly fast, and Vin can't actually kill Kal until he runs out of stormlight. If she did enough damage, she wins. But otherwise, she loses

[@plasmamuffin1320]

Wall of Text has awoken!Ok so first off, i would have to say that despite me liking Mistborn slightly more than The Stormlight Archives, i think that in a fight, Kaladin would definitely win. Here's why:First, Kaladin can heal himself, and Vin can't. You said in the video that they both have a healing factor, but Vin actually doesn't. Pewter can give you a lot of strength and endurance, but it doesn't heal, and the more injured you are the more pewter you need just to stay on your feet. Stormlight, however, can heal as well as providing endurance, although it doesn't provide much extra strength. So in a strength contest, Vin would win, but over an extended fight Kaladin would probably win as he only needs to get one good hit in to drain Vin's pewter.Vin's ability to shoot metal would be devastating and require Kaladin to use a lot of stormlight to heal, as it's been established that one coin can pierce someone's skull and kill them in one hit. However, Kaladin would likely be able to dodge at least some of the coins, block them with Syl, or heal most of the damage with stormlight.If Vin had atium, that would give her a significant advantage, but only until it ran out. Given that atium burns so quickly, it's likely that she would only have enough for a minute or two, and so she would need to beat Kaladin within that time frame or lose the advantage.Both of them have the ability to fly, but Vin requires metal to push off of or pull towards, and Kaladin doesn't. Additionally, Kaladin can lash Vin, pushing her into the air or sticking her to the ground.Finally, Kaladin has a shapeshifting shardblade, which can instantly disable any body part it's slashed through(i'm assuming pewter does not give a resistance to this) and can't be blocked by anything(with the possible exception of aluminum). Given that, plus all the other factors, i'd have to go with Kaladin. Unless Vin managed to pull of some kind of duralumin/atium tricks, that is.Although there is one factor i almost forgot about. Emotional allomancy. Lacking copper, Kaladin would be completely open to Vin manipulating his emotions, meaning she would have a huge advantage, as she could break his spirit, make him despair, or even just nullify all his emotions. With that, it'd definitely be a more even fight.So basically Vin would probably win if she had atium or used emotional allomancy, but if Kaladin managed to run out her atium or adjusted to having his emotions manipulated, he would probably win.

[@allysonmiller5158]

I'm aware kaliden has depression but it seems to have disappeared by book three. ROW: throws it all back with a side of PTSD.

[@feistierthread294]

To nitpick the fight: - Vin does not have a healing factor. Pewter increases strength and speed and physical endurance, and it can let you keep fighting despite wounds that should drop you, but it's explicitly called out that Thugs will often win a fight, then keel over dead from their injuries when the pewter runs out. It can *maybe* keep you alive if burned continuously, and I'd suspect it lets you heal *faster* than normal, but we're talking a scale of weeks vs. months, not healing lethal wounds in seconds or minutes like stormlight. - Kaladin has a shardblade in any case, which Vin absolutely cannot heal from. Probably also bypasses pewter's ability to shrug off wounds, since it cuts the soul, not the physical body. - Kaladin is a trained soldier, and specifically called out as a master of the spear. Vin is a *good fighter*, but has no formal training and largely depends on Allomancy to fight. - Atium would make vin untouchable until it runs out, but she really doesn't have any kind of offensive ability that can actually put a knight radiant down. We see Kaladin survive being repeatedly stabbed in the spinal column while restrained, and Vin (barring some kind of elaborate trap) does not have the capacity to put out more physical damage than that (nor would she be able to restrain Kaladin while continuing to inflict damage to prevent him from getting away and healing). - Vin is fast in the air, but is limited by both availability of anchors and the fact that her magic is generally constrained by newtonian physics. There is a limit to how fast she can fly/change direction before the G-forces crush her internal organs. Kaladin is not similarly constrained, as stormlight seems to protect him from what should be the negative effects of his own powers.

[@brucehubbard6166]

Does the fourth book change any of your thoughts here?

[@changboyz]

I think Kaladin's resistance to damage is just better than Vin's

[@markcastellanet9672]

Yes, that's true. But then stormlight leaks out quicker the more damage she does to him.

[@darianmedeiros7541]

I wonder how Vin would combat a lashing from Kal. He could lash her to the sky. He could probably heal from coin shots too. If he's wearing shard plate he's as strong if not stronger than Vin. But as it stands now I think Vin would win.

[@markcastellanet9672]

Gotta touch to lash. If he's that close to her, she could head bunt with pewter and duralumin and that would be the end. It's not like she's just going to let him hit her with any sword or spear cuz even regular swords and spears are dangerous.

[@christopherneedham9584]

@@markcastellanet9672 headbutt with pewder/duralamin was a last resort. There was a reason it was only used once. Plus, kaladin still heals from that. Stormlight heals to spiritual fullness, regardless of actual damage. Vin's tendency to fight hand to hand would cause her to be lashed and lose. The only way she wins is if she has a significant understanding of how kaladin works, but he didn't understand how she did.

[@mc_buff6895]

With The Rhythm of War out now, what would you say has changed about this video and what has reinforced your previous views? (Or are there just things you changed your mind on?)

[@meostafford]

i hope by the end of the cosmere all these toons team up to re imagine andanelalsium our how ever you say it. or fight to reassemble all the shards or something.... All the hero's from each world in a team up,,,,sounds great.

[@ryanmeade1423]

This is very late but I wanted too. Personal analysis of Vin vs Kal physically. 5 main categories of importance: Movement, damage, health/ability to get hit, endurance, and random crap I don't know how to classify. 1 (movement): Vin has duralumin enhanced steal pushes, along with flared and normal pushes and pulls. Pewter also heavily assists in movement. Kaladin can change the direction of gravity and add factors of gravity. If Kaladin wanted to leave the fight, he could with zero issue. Vin would not be able to catch him (just takes Kal flying straight up, and then one change in direction.)If Vin tried to leave, Kaladin could follow, but it would likely be a fairly significant and intense chase. 2 (damage): Vin has pewter and steel pushes. Both highly lethal. Kaladin, has the ability to send people into orbit, and a sword of insta-kill and changing shape. Better not blunt said sword cause Vin might theoretically be able to eat it. Being able to push on it or not is irrelevant due to being instantly re-summon-able. Kaladin and Vin are both incredibly deadly up close. Some people have mentioned that Kal could stick Vin to the ground. However, I'm fairly certain that Vin would just use pewter to pull the ground out of the floor, because the ground is the weakest variable in Vin, bond-Kal-creates, Ground. 3 (health/ability to tank stuff): Vin has pewter capable of letting her absorb the force required to launch someone thousands of feet with nearly instant acceleration. Requires duralumin to be on that level. Once hit without pewter, healing factors are slow or irrelevant. Can take nearly infinite blunt trauma due to practice with launching herself around and dealing hits that require extreme force. Vin also has Atium, meaning she can dodge any projectile, and fight anyone who has not drilled enough. Kaladin has Stormlight. He has healed from a hit with a Shardblade. Others have been shown to be healed from being impaled, shot in the head with arrows, and many more. Limbs have been regrown. While stormlight was been dampened, Kaladin complained about the fact that it would take him a few minutes to heal from a completely shattered wrist. He also has an invincible shield. Even in book three, this healing factor is valid. 4 (endurance): Idk, it's been too long since I read the book man. Plus both are highly variable considering rates in consumption and situation. Neither will waste their investiture if they think they are outmatched or don't have infinite supplies. I think Vin is about as investure efficient as a fifth ideal radiant. 5 (random crap). Emotional Allomancy: Too many possibilities. Vin makes Kaladin more depressed, Vin has a worse situation than before. She has successfully pushed forward Kaladin's character development by 1 book. Vin makes Kaladin super happy/removes his pain and gives him peace or overwhelming joy... I think Vin actually might win. Vin makes him guilty. Kal has a Lost Metal moment. Too much to deal with. No idea what would happen. I also don't know if Vin can remove Kal's stormlight reserve. Or cause him to use it all at once. If she can, I don't actually know if she'd be able to get close enough to use the ability, because she'd have to touch him. And... spear has more reach than arm. Shardblade has more reach and lots of cutting area. There are a lot of other weird interactions that I don't understand. How much metal does Kal have on him? Every button is getting pushed through him, that's for sure. How long will it take Kaladin to say screw it and stop thinking, and just instinctually attack resulting in Atium being negligible? Analysis: Movement means Kaladin can always leave the fight, leaving a significant chance of tying if Vin proves to be threatening. Kaladin healing factor to Vin damage factor: Kaladin can survive anything Vin can dish. Though a coin through the head at Mach 1 might have interesting affects so who knows for sure. Pewter hits will shatter bone. Kaladin can heal from that pretty easily. Vin does not have the ability to leave the fight if Kaladin chooses to extend it. This puts the fight out of her favor. She cannot heal any hit from Syl. Endurance, I think Vin takes due to Pewter and Stormlight both enhancing it, and Pewter likely lasting longer for Vin than Kaladin. However, the fight will never reach Kaladin's limit as he will leave if he needs too. As a note on Vin's use of Atium, I think it is nearly worthless due to Kal's shown ability to fight the pursuer. He adapts too quickly for being able to see the future to be an advantage. Even book three Kal would have reaction time on that level, and that fighting style. Conclusion: I think book three Kaladin wins or leaves.

[@xylonpesquera8605]

The main problem with a fight is that Kaladin would be extremely lethal in close rage but Vin operates at close and far. This, combined with Atium, would give her the fight. However, Vin's healing factor is fairly limited and cannot take hits from Syl. Kaladin, if he heals anything like Shallan, will get hit but heal better than anything short of a gold compounder. In addition to healing he also has the third lashing that greatly affects light projectiles and an instant shield so I don't believe Vin's coinshot abilities would do enough damage to overwhelm him. So it all comes down to who lasts longer. This is hard to calculate because Vin lasts longer burning but Kaladin doesn't even have to touch his sources. So instead I turn to character. Vin has a calculated way of fighting that is incredibly fast, but trying to end a battle with Kaladin quickly would be a bad choice. Kaladin is far better at a duel-like fight and has Syl who can change into freaking pole arms, making his range unpredictable. Plus one touch and he can throw her like a rag and he can make traps with a full lashing. Vin, armed with Atium, would be able to hurt Kaladin a lot but her Atium would run out before his healing factor. Then it's mostly lucky shots until he runs out of storm light and is left with only Syl. But Syl would be able to assist him well enough, and him having learned most of Vin's tricks, that I just don't think that Vin could win in the end without Atium. If she had two doses of Atium then she would win. Until Kaladin gets his own Shardplate.

[@jantalpa7829]

This is kind of exactly what I feel would happen in the duel. Atium means absolute immunity to attacks and also ensures your attacks hit, but I don´t think Vin can inflict enough damage to Kal, unless she makes some sort of crazy all-in. Stormlight healing is extremely potent.

[@fangoram29]

Just found your channel last night and have binged a bunch of it but I'm curious why so far you've seemed to ignore Sazed in all your Mistborn videos. Not even touching on the more spoiler heavy parts of his character he's a big part of Vin's growth and is the closest she gets to a parent in the series

[@lucrayzor9657]

Fourth ideal Kaladin tho… that might be a different discussion entirely

[@Nerd-rk1to]

Some people: yeah, but if Kaladin has Dalinar's perpendicularly/his shardplate... The response: yeah, but if Vin is a literal god at the time...

[@changboyz]

Kaladin's internal trauma is forgotten in Oathbringer do you remember the fight in the palace and how it ended.

[@thomasluckau9482]

... forgotten? He is still struggling with the whole protecting everyone thing. He had a total panic attack during the palace fight over fighting people he saw as friends. He couldn't bring himself to swear the next Ideal because he is afraid of failing even harder than he already thinks he has. His trauma is still there.

[@TheRyanryan24]

Just started mistborn 1 and am very excited. See this video because now I’m familiar with Vin! I am skipping ahead just to see what the gist of it is because I don’t want to know any spoilers and immediately skip to 4:50 to hearing “because of clever plot choices like killing of Kelsier”....... It’s my own damn fault hahah

[@mari_599]

A battle between my two favorite Cosmere characters? I agree with you, Vin wins

[@KasonWhitsell]

This is impossible to debate as Kaladin's story is no where near done. There are 10 books planned for the SLA. VIn's story was wrapped up in 3 books, and gets referenced here and there during Era 2.

[@joeplumley3238]

I have to disagree. Vin's origins we're not as fleshed out as kaladins. All we hear about vin is her brother was mean and her mother was crazy. That's pretty much it. Kaladin had whole flashback chapters dedicated to his backstory.

[@katelyndryer8533]

OMG I LOVE KALADIN

[@whatevah1989]

I can't say I'd agree with Vin beating out Kaladin in a fight, for two main reasons. 1. Kaladin' healing factor. Even a stab through the throat or a coin through the skull, wouldn't kill Kaladin outright. Yes, he does use a bunch of stormlight to heal it, but he usually carries a lot of extra stormlight around for this very reason. 2. Syl. It doesn't matter how effective and dirty Vin fights, when the first time she tries to block Kaladin's attack, his weapon just goes straight through her blades and severs her soul. Vin doesn't know what a Shardblade is, she doesn't know that she can't block or parry Syl.

[@feltrix334]

I actually give the edge to Kaladin in a fight, mostly due to the healing factor. Kaladin can survive incredible injuries, and Vin doesn't actually heal, she's just tough. Kaladin's "flight" is also a bit better than Vin's. Vin definitely has a ranged advantage, and atrium might give her an edge. I also think based on descriptions that Kaladin's speed and reaction time is greater than Vin's, but Vin is stronger with pewter. With Vin I think the main thing is making Kal run out of Stormlight to kill him, but Kal has a weapon that can cut through souls. If he lands a hit on her, it's over. I've seen people joke about Vin rioting Kal's depression, but especially if she duralumin pushes, that could really take him out, so it's definitely not cut and dry. The other thing I want to add is that Vin doesn't carry chromium since they didn't know about it in Era 1, but if she did, the fight skews in her favor (chromium drains investiture at a touch, so then the game becomes "can Vin touch Kaladin before he gets a solid hit in with his shardspear?" which I would bet the answer is yes, and if she has atium, she absolutely can.)

[@angelmoncada382]

What about Kaladin's lashing ability?

[@BuildsByCeyphe]

I know this is an old video, but at 7:10 you say that Kaladin's strongest relationship is with Vin lmao. I would love to see that tho.

[@fuzzzywall6311]

Hearing about kaladin's depression disappearing around book 3 after reading book 4 is uhhh...

[@gregjohnson1015]

I'd like to see this redone after Rhythm of War

[@zc4621]

As of book 4 i think this fight becomes a sweep for kaladin unless we are talking about vin with her major power boost at the end, to put it in a spoiler free manner

[@seandawson2166]

Just a spear? He can Change it at will to any weapon. He can do lashings to stop projectiles and fly. One hit from him will kill any limb and cut threw anything. He can heal from a shard blade and falling down the cavern. Let’s also not forget how he killed a shard plate and blade weirder without having powers by using a spear head through a space in the helmet where being slightly off would have not worked.

[@danalou_who7765]

I would like to see you reevaluate after book five of TSA because then Kaladin will have completed an arc as I understand it. That seems like a more fair matchup point, arc to arc.

[@wheelhouse15]

One of the biggest problems for Kaladin's development here is that he is one of many focused characters while Vin is one of only a couple focused characters. Kaladin also has a much more complex story line to integrate with and is far from fully developed. I like them both but I think Kal will win at the end of the series if Brandon fully develops him. As for the combat, you do realize that radiants can take a bolt through the skull or sword to the chest and not die so how are a few nails going to bother him? Most likely, he would just lash her to the sky and then what can she do against a shard bearer?

[@aditigoyal7912]

Sorry Daniel but I think u need to read Oathbringer again Coz earlier in another video u said Dalinar had no character progression !!! And now u say kaladins depression vanished here!!!

[@agnivbanerjee3848]

Kaladin would win for sure since he is a radiant windrunner and also he has sylphrena shardblade and also lashes are there. His healing factor is also very nice since he can bear a highstorm. His combat skills are very higher than Vin so most probably kaladin would win a head to head fight.

[@randolfgarard]

Let’s get Vin on the Shattered plains and see who wins the fight.