Karen Swallow Prior & RC Sproul Jr - How should the church respond when Christian leaders fall?

[@FledMendota]

It's astonishing seeing RC Sproul Jr being interviewed here, especially where the subject is accountability of Christian leaders. The most prominent feature of RC Jr's life is a decades-long series of scandals and crimes. He's gotten away with it because he's a master at evading accountability. That and his family's enabling. Over and over he's been propped up and even rewarded for his scandals. When he was defrocked in 2006 for spiritual abuse, tax fraud, identity theft, stealing church funds, alcohol abuse, etc. his father rewarded his horrific conduct by giving him a six-figure job at Ligonier. Rather than being disciplined for registering for an Ashley Madison "Life is short, have an affair" account Ligonier suspended him with full pay. IOW he was rewarded for his scandal with a one-year six-figure paid vacation. Within 5 months of being "restored" to his position at Ligonier he was arrested in 2016 and convicted for felony drunk driving (he fails to mention here he was also stoned out of his mind on opioids). He resigned from Ligonier over his felony drunk driving conviction after arranging a six-figure golden parachute "severance package." In spite of scandal upon scandal Ligonier continues paying Junior six-figures as an independent contractor. RC Jr's view of accountability is a complete sham. All accountability means to RC Jr is getting away with scandals and crimes while still being lavishly paid. In light of all this I can't help but see the irony of this channel's title "Unbelievable."

[@FledMendota]

@Ben Douglas Eye-opening what you can often discover in just a few minutes with a google search. I'm not disturbed with Justin. Just somewhat surprised that he might have been duped by (as you so accurately put it) a "pretend-sorry sociopath." But then Justin wouldn't be the first. RC Jr has many years of experience duping people with that silver tongue of his. For those interested, the most thorough archive of evidence is Spinderella Sproul, a blog run by former members of RC Jr's "church." It documents many years of spiritual abuse, scandals, crimes, pathological lying, and multiple instances of faux repentance when he's been caught in egregious sin. It's far, far worse than just Ashley Madison and a DUI.

[@samadams7573]

@H. Abramson Sproul is supposedly a Calvinist. The very first point of the 5 points of Calvinism (TULIP) is "the Total depravity of man." It's based on Jeremiah 17:9, "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" But when it comes to holding their Calvinist preachers accountable for egregious sins, most Calvinists magically transform themselves into humanists. All we usually hear is the very humanist, "Let's give him the benefit of the doubt." They adopt the humanist "Man is inherently good" rather than the biblical "The heart is deceitful above all things." They don't want to believe their preacher could have a deceitful heart. So rather than conducting a thorough investigation they choose to believe any lame excuses their preacher gives to minimize his sin. This is exactly how RC Sproul Jr has gotten away with so many grotesque sins for so many years. That and having a famous highly respected father to give him cover helped a lot too.

[@davidthurman3963]

@@samadams7573 maybe we should look more closely at "belief" itself especially in context the topic God as being intellectually fraudulent and neurologically limited. Seems like Asperger's, nonsense actually, makes zero sense literally and leads to the co equal fantasy 'Atheism" and the by product "agnosticism". nothing against aspergers it's just that the topic God isn't their natural strong point.

[@FledMendota]

@M Mcott We've had several serious, even heartbreaking, failures with more than one of our children. We show them grace and compassion, reminding them that there is forgiveness in Christ while also reminding them that there is no forgiveness from God apart from confession and repentance. Yes, it's hard to hold our children accountable, especially when we fear their sins might reflect negatively on us as their parents. This last point may have especially been challenging for a prominent celebrity like RC Sproul. Dr Sproul consistently engaged in damage control every time RC Jr got jammed up in another scandal and, as a result RC Jr went from bad to worse. Isn't that what often happens when you spoil your kids?

[@seekthetruth824]

I know some people have a lot of negative to say about R.C. but I can say, he helped me many years ago, on multiple occasions where he had nothing to gain by doing so. I was a young and broke guy that needed help, and he did just that. I didn't even really know him, just knew of him, and he helped a lot. I did not receive as much help from some people that I actually knew.

[@HollyMontyMajor]

Here's the bottom line. RC Sproul is completely banned from any form of ministry in my opinion. His Dad was the greatest, and held fast to the end. Unfortunately, RC Jr. Is disqualified.

[@grantnewlife9319]

In some respects the apple didn't fall all that far from the tree. "Eli's sons were scoundrels" largely because, even though Eli was a godly man, he failed to discipline his sons and hold them accountable. RC Sr. bears considerable responsibility for how his son turned out. RC Sr. set the example for his son in some significant ways, including evading accountability. RC Sr. "parked his ordination" in the PCA. But he wasn't a Presbyterian. By his own authority he started St. Andrews Chapel, an independent non-demon church. He appointed his own yes-men elders to do his bidding. Over the years many St. Andrews members have pleaded to have the church brought into the PCA, but RC always prevented it. Although RC worked very hard throughout his life he never imparted a work ethic in his son. Instead he spoiled him rotten, doling out a six-figure paycheck to his slothful son year after year, including in the midst of his very public scandals. Even when RC Jr was obligated to "resign for personal reasons" over what in reality was a felony drunk driving incident, his father approved a massive "severance package" and agreed to continue paying Junior six-figures as an "independent contractor." RC Jr's mother Vesta is ensuring that Ligonier donors continue being defrauded by surreptitiously paying RC Jr six-figures for his doing nothing.

[@alexrothwell2053]

@@grantnewlife9319 I agree with you. I've benefited so much from RC Sproul Sr.'s work, but I can't watch him now without having a bad taste in my mouth because of how he dealt with his son. I find it hard to believe that Sproul Sr. wasn't saved, but it is clear that he had serious shortcomings that others should've held him to account over.

[@Sherlock245]

@@alexrothwell2053 then you do no know rc sproul at all.

[@grantnewlife9319]

@@Sherlock245 RC was a brilliant theologian, but he failed miserably where it concerned "He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him" (1 Tim 3:4). RC must share in the blame for RC Jr making shipwreck of his life. In spite of RC Jr's numerous scandals RC refused to discipline his wicked son. In fact RC spoiled RC Jr rotten. So rotten he became. RC performed the wedding ceremony for his son to a 3x divorced woman after RC Jr's Presbytery said they couldn't condone such a marriage because it would be adulterous (Lisa divorced 3 men, none of which were for biblical causes, all while she claimed to be a Christian). After RC Jr's Presbytery refused to give their permission, RC encouraged his son to demit his ordination to the CPC and marry Lisa anyway. IOW RC Sproul encouraged his son to rebel against his Presbytery. RC very much wanted to hand over the reins of Ligonier to RC Jr. But we all know RC Jr himself destroyed any hope of that ever happening. His father played a major part in destroying any hope of RC Jr ever developing integrity, moral character, and a work ethic.

[@grantnewlife9319]

@@DB-ol6yg You make some good points which I appreciate. However, it doesn't negate my issues for RC Sproul's parenting of RC Jr. The most glaring problem of all RC Sproul propping up his son in Christian ministry. Absolutely no excuse for that in light of Junior having always been so morally bankrupt. Could RC Sproul somehow not have known of the biblical requirements for being a pastor/teacher? Crystal clear from Titus 1:5-9, 1 Tim. 3:1-7. RC Sproul could have encouraged his reprobate son to pursue a secular vocation where any scandals he caused wouldn't bring shame and reproach to Christ's name. But he didn't, and he's 100% to blame for the catastrophic results.

[@carvermanor]

God's grace and mercy extend to every sinner who genuinely repents, even to scandalous reprobates like RC Sproul Jr who's committed innumerable scandals over many years. The problem is he did it all while claiming to be "redeemed" and functioning as a pastor and ministry leader. He thinks he qualified to be a pastor just because his name is Sproul. The Word of God says otherwise (Titus 1:5-9 and 1 Timothy 3:1-7). Not everyone can meet those standards (I certainly don't), and RC Jr doesn't even come close. Even if he has repented, forgiveness doesn't convey any sense of legitimacy to RC Jr's decision to put himself back into ministry. It just makes him a renegagde and rebel. Every single one of RC Jr's pastor/theologian/minister friends have expressly told him he's disqualified from the ministry. So he's cut himself off from them. Nevertheless he's set himself up as the "Pastor" of Sovereign Grace Fellowship, a church he recently organized. Where is his authority to do so? Not God's Word. Not by virtue of any ordination or the authority of any church. RC Jr declared himself fit for ministry merely by virtue of God's forgiveness.

[@Eyesofmars2040]

It seems many confess only after they are caught. There’s the difference. It’s not like most came and confessed privately before it came out. I wouldn’t want to be taught or led by anyone like that.

[@grantnewlife9319]

Ironically RC Sproul Jr and his Ashley Madison scandal epitomizes exactly what you're talking about. He outed himself right as The Impact Team released the names of Ashley Madison account holders. Pretty obvious why -- damage control. Outing himself gave the opportunity to spin a false narrative and pretend-repent. He's been lying about his Ashley Madison account ever since then, claiming he "only visited" Ashley Madison. No. He registered for an adultery account but a year later told a pack of lies about it. He's still lying about it to this day, as he does in this interview. See Spinderella Sproul for proof.

[@ivanasimic2072]

Amen. These people are predators

[@tigerwalker30]

What I liked about this is rc sounds humble and repentant I would be glad to have him as my pastor

[@FledMendota]

@tim Walker, RC Sproul Jr has never been "humble and repentant," although he's certainly conned a lot of people into believing he is. In each case where he's been caught out in his many public scandals he's offered up excuses and outright lies, such as he does in this interview explaining away his Ashley Madison "Life is short, have an affair" account. Take just a few minutes with a google search (something this channel should have done before giving Sproul a platform here) and you'll discover Sproul is a wolf in sheep's clothing. He's a pretend-sorry sociopath. RC Sproul Jr's life has be a decades long series of dumpster fires. Sproul was defrocked in 2006 for spiritual abuse (bullying and tyrannizing entire families), tax fraud, identity theft, drunkenness, stealing church funds, etc. Since that time he's only gone down hill morally worse than ever. His latest scandal is he sexted penis pics to a 3x divorced woman to lure her into marrying him (see the Spinderella Sproul blog for details).

[@samadams7573]

@7:41 RC Sproul Jr says, "We have a gospel that covers our sins, but it covers the sins that we uncover, that we confess." Agreed. But what if a confession is deceptive or full of excuses? Is that sin covered? "I confess my sin of ________ but..." (justify, excuse, mitigate) doesn't cut it in God's economy. Too many celebrity preachers make their priority saving face rather than getting their sin covered by a holy God. RC Sproul Jr illustrates this perfectly, and his Ashley Madison scandal is just one of many examples I could cite of his phony face-saving confessions. Sproul goes on to say, "Sometime in 2014 I had visited the Ashley Madison web site..." Here begins his lying narrative, one he's been telling since 2015. Sproul admits he "left an old email address," something that doesn't square with only "visiting" Ashley Madison. Only Ashley Madison account holders can leave an email address. Why is the distinction between "visitor" and "account holder" important? Because when you register for an Ashley Madison account you have to give far more than just a name and email address. You also have to check off a long list of sexually explicit boxes such as "Sexual Preference," "Affair Limits," and a host of other prurient lusts (as explained on the Spinderella Sproul blog). In telling such a huge lie, dozens of times in 5 years, how can any objective thinking person find Sproul credible enough to not have some measure of doubt when he claims he didn't hook up with any women? Perhaps he didn't, but only the most gullible would take him at his word.

[@grantnewlife9319]

It seems pretty likely he hooked up with his current wife on Ashley Madison. The timing of it fits. Then he went on to give her "marriage counseling" without her husband's knowledge. Ultimately he encouraged her to divorce her husband so he could marry her. He quite literally stole her away from her husband. No wonder his presbytery wouldn't give their consent for him to marry her. So he demitted his ordination and married her anyway. Most tragically of all his father, Dr. RC Sproul even encouraged it. Barely a month after Dr. Sproul performed the marriage ceremony came RC Jr's drunk driving arrest (with two kids in the car no less).

[@lukesalazar9283]

Thank you so much for going through this.

[@malcolmdownandsarahgracepu4906]

A really good book on this subject is Restoring the Fallen which tells of Mark and Cherith Stibbe’s painful story of fall, repentance and restoration. Rooted throughout in the moving tale of Peter’s restoration in John 21, Mark and Cherith offer hope and healing to those who have fallen. They use the picture of kintsugi - the Japanese art of repairing broken cups using golden lacquer - to reveal how we are all cracked pots, but our loving Father is the Divine Potter, and in his hands, our fractures become the fissures through which his glory shines!

[@ivanasimic2072]

what about their victims, does anybody care????? NO!! Institutions are more importent to be protected than their victims, and its a shame of the church . Dr Diane Langberg is talking about it.

[@WTG194]

Unfortunately leaders will be judged more harshly. Jerry Jr, seems to forget this at around 16:00. If you want to be a teacher in the public space then you have to accept this truth.

[@robertwilliams7742]

Agreed Tim. If we had more humble and honest people in points of leadership in and out the church, we would have a much better world in general. That being said, I have so much more respect for someone that can admit to making mistakes, even big ones, make changes in their life, and not hide their heads or point fingers at others but actually own it and use heir experience to share Christ with others. Anyone disagreeing with this principle need no better example than Paul and his conversion to Christ.

[@ivanasimic2072]

First of all, they MUST to be accountable to the people and to be removed from their usurpation of authority . What should you do when so called "pastor/apostle" is bullying and hurting people for many years and they sue you when you call them out??? Talk about it, please

[@jameschapman4926]

Thank you for this program. As one who has had a ‘fall’ just under a year ago, I found the discussion engaging and provoking - but just a couple of observations. I wonder why there was no voice from this side of the pond? In many ways the UK context is different, as are the legal processes and denominational structures (recent ‘Sheldon report’ critiquing Anglican measures is an example). Though things are still very raw for me, I have been surprised by the ad hoc process of discipline (which at times has felt cruel), and how much people are prepared to kick you when down, balanced by unexpected kindness and care (without approving) as well as God’s grace. I would have loved to hear more regarding accountablity and vulnerability (difficult for many leaders as need to be self-motivating and resourceful - so maybe a particular personality type), false accusations, boundaries, and the voice of the other victims not mentioned: spouse and close family who seem ignored by any process. As well, some talk on best practice for discipline and restoration (tho not suggesting back to the same position). A fall is never easy - you lose your job, income, house, reputation, legacy and friends. Resources-wise, church support is virtually impossible in lockdown situation, but I’ve found the writings of Mark Stibbe, Gordon MacDonald and the Psalms helpful. Pray for your leaders; they ain’t great at opening up until too late, and no one is left unhurt.

[@Eyesofmars2040]

Unfortunately if you’re in the public eye everything you do is very public and the world is watching.

[@emmagallagher2297]

Carl Lentz was very obviously a false teacher. It was less of a fall from grace and more of an uncovering of who he was as a person. Watch American Gospel.

[@patrickc3419]

I love both of the American Gospel movies. They are what every Christian in America needs to watch.

[@Jamie-Russell-CME]

Perhaps pride has fluorished, secretly or openly, people are often granted power by simple means of celebrity status among the body. It takes a truly surrendered man to keep such status in check before God. A proper structure of accountability through elders and peer accountability must be a constant check. For the sake of our Savior's name in whom we must honor. Stepping down on one's own examination should be more common to prevent the shame of the church.

[@Eyesofmars2040]

Exactly

[@grantnewlife9319]

RC Sproul Jr tells so many lies in this interview it's hard for me to not come to the conclusion he must be a pathological liar. As just one example @21:25, "Have you received criticism for wanting to go back into forms of public ministry RC?" "I have, but I haven't given it much weight because the things that I've been doing are things that anybody can do. I had internet critics jumping up and down because I'd been asked to speak at a small event... and my hosts made the mistake of listing me as Reverend RC Sproul Jr, which I wasn't." Except they hadn't made a mistake at all. He'd been promoting his "RC Sproul Jr Ministries" for months prior and publicly given himself the titles "Pastor" and "Rev." When he got called out for it he abruptly deleted all references to RC Sproul Jr Ministries. Then several months later he incorporated Dunamis Fellowship as "The teaching ministry of RC Sproul Jr." He got challenged for calling it a "teaching ministry." So he changed it to "teaching outreach." Every week he produces a video for the sole purpose of soliciting donations to buy an expensive piece of land and build a church building, a project costing $millions. That's not something "anybody can do," let alone would do. Those of us who know RC Jr's dark history of tax fraud, identity theft, stealing $hundreds of thousands from the church coffers, and ripping off other churches and ministries in a travel expense scam, can plainly see his church building fundraiser is a scam. RC Sproul Jr has clearly set himself up in "public ministry." So why for the past 2+ years does he keep denying the obvious? Without a ministry ordination he knows he can't be viewed as legitimate in ministry. But no denomination or even just a local church will ordain him, especially knowing he demitted his last ordination because his Presbytery wouldn't sign off on his marrying a 3 times divorced woman. So he fled their authority and married her anyway. Without a doubt RC Jr is "in public ministry." Just not legitimately so, especially in light of the four Reformed Presbyterian ordinations he'd held over the years (Sproul jumps ship and changes up denominations at the first sign of trouble, and as frequently as the typical church-hopper). Sproul knows he has no legitimate standing to be a minister, which is why he lies and says he's not in public ministry.

[@maidenshazza]

Is there any place I can read some proof of Rc Jr 's identity theft and other things that you've stated in your comment. I don't want to formally an opinion based on someone else's opinion. Thanks

[@grantnewlife9319]

@@maidenshazza I tried posting a link but it didn't go through. Try googling "rc sproul jr legal brief on ein fraud"

[@MumtazBSOE]

I wonder if I can suggest a discussion subject, this is the title “It is time to reevaluate the support to the developing countries’ ministries” - Is it really help the locals! How much it hurt the locals! How much abuse! By the fund entrusted locals to locals! - The issue of accountability! Which in those countries not exist almost at all, especially with people gained reputations so they became very trusted, and they get furious for just questioning about using the fund! - How much suffering for the locals, the support abuse generate! - The calls for counsel to oversee what is going on, and this is regarding all the denominations! - False manipulative reporting! - Dependency! - I am one of the locals and I am very open to discussing those issues from the ground privately before bringing it publicly!

[@Rick-vi6ni]

I find it unbelievable that karen swallows R.C. Sproul Jr. prior to ashley madison and jennifer epstein's role in finding a sudanese allosaur.

[@ibartobotes6896]

Something to consider Justin: around 29:35 you mention a "fall from grace" and reference Carl Lentz. Biblically speaking, one doesn't fall from grace by sinning but rather by trying to attain righteousness through the Law / works. "You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace." - (Galatians 5:4) I've really enjoyed this conversation as someone who has witnessed this very issue in previous leadership of our local church. Thanks for asking the tough questions, blessings!

[@GermanShepherd1983]

It's obvious that Sproul Jr is a hypocrite and his father should be called the same. They preach about going to hell yet they are the worst sinners.

[@grantnewlife9319]

"They preach about going to hell yet they are the worst sinners." I'm confident they'd both agree with you on that point, especially the late Dr. Sproul. "But for the grace of God" is something they both routinely said, and that we should all say. I'd have to disagree that Dr. Sproul was a hypocrite. Certainly not a flawless man, especially where it concerns mollycoddling of his son. But not a hypocrite either. RC Jr on the other is indeed one of the biggest hypocrites the church has ever known. In spite of his never ending scandals he's still masquerading as a pastor.

[@sbwetherbe]

Nice, necessary and overdue discussion. I was missing two important aspects of this that I believe were too lightly alluded to. One is that, as a category of people, Christians are viewed as being pretty judgy. When leaders fall the appearance of hypocrisy is more glaring than with others. This makes it harder to let go of the feelings of betrayal. The other bit is the difference between when a lower level 'leader' trips up (such as a Sunday School teacher) verses someone with limited accountability (the charismatic pastor or organization leader). Should the level of accountability be the same or different? Restoration the same or different?

[@mr.c2485]

@@itisnow True!

[@ivanasimic2072]

they should be call out first of all and so called church doesnt care about their victims. My opinion is to talk about of those who are "fallen" is rubish

[@ck1578]

R.C. was very humble in accepting Justin's mispronunciation of his last name. Those Brits with their funny way of talking!

[@nathanaelhowell6374]

we made the language 😂😂😂

[@timsharpe6652]

I'm British , and I can pronounce RC Dproul . Don't band is all together lol 😂😂

[@timsharpe6652]

Americans talk funny top 😉 even though I do love them haha 😜

[@timsharpe6652]

*too

[@ForGodsGloryKimJohnson]

It’s his accent not mispronunciation.

[@h54h52]

It always was the case that oversight and accountability meant making sure there was always at least two people present for counselling, always group (staff) prayer meetings wherein sanctification, openness and brokenness guided prayer. I think any ministry built on a person or personalities and where solicitation donations plays a part in financing the ministry, it requires even more sanctity. When you have a staff serving a leadership group it’s easy for the staff to be intimidated by the leadership. I think the New Testament teaches that we are all equal before the Lord, and the Holy Spirit can anoint anyone with a pure heart to deliver a word of prophecy, caution or reproof.

[@Richardcontramundum]

Just search Karen swallow prior and you'll get more than enough to understand where she comes from. No it's not Orthodox nor is her Gospel the true gospel

[@martinploughboy988]

Pretty much explains the lack of reference to Scripture from her.

[@ivanasimic2072]

Primare goal are their victims!! I dont care about bullies who are hurting so many people

[@Eyesofmars2040]

The way back may be to get a different job.

[@userofusername]

Every single one of RC Sproul Jr's pastor friends have been saying the same thing to him for years. "Get out of the ministry, RC. You've disqualified yourself." He got so tired of hearing that he cut them all off. The only friends he has left are his wife's friends (a 3-times divorced woman he sexted penis pics to lure her into marrying him). So it's real surprising to see this channel giving a reprobate like Sproul a platform, especially with a topic like this one.

[@martybeazley3306]

I noticed that Junior misrepresented the truth by saying we must stand up in church and confess our individual sins. Silly doctrine considering you only need to confess to God that you are a wretched sinner. I only point this out to demonstrate that demons give themselves away by misrepresenting the Gospel.

[@grantnewlife9319]

When RC Sproul Jr issues a directive and uses "we" he only means "you." What he commands "we" do he never does himself. Or if he does he only uses it as a platform to promote himself through fake contrition and faux humility. Take for example his Ashley Madison scandal in which he claimed to have "only visited" Ashley Madison. Even though that was quickly proven to be a blatant lie he's continued lying about it since (google "RC Sproul Jr Lies About Ashley Madison Account").

[@IosifStalin2]

If Church leaders fail so miserably, what was the Holy Spirit doing?

[@thereisnopandemic]

King David had the Holy Spirit, explain that one

[@ivanasimic2072]

Real question is: is there any courage of the people who will be accountable to the Lord for doing NOTHING to protect victims of these wolfs. This "leaders" are ordinary people who must to be accountable to the law as well.

[@IosifStalin2]

Just look at the state of Evangelical Christianity in America.....

[@IvyLeather13]

If more Christians were like Karen, I think Christianity would have a better reputation. Sadly she's an exception.

[@1Whipperin]

Who made Karen a teacher of men? Where's her husband?

[@martinploughboy988]

What a shame that the biblical solution wasn't considered. The leadership model in the New Testament is of a group of elders/overseers, working together, supporting and guarding each other. Monarchical leadership is a very human trait, but also very dangerous and when, as it always is, it is combined with placing a man on a pedestal it can be fatal. RC Sproul Jr did quote some Scripture, but it was mostly absent from the discussion. Why is it that we hear so little exegesis on this programme? And you still have that ghastly music.

[@GermanShepherd1983]

The Old Testament solution might be better for RC jr. I'd a good stoning might be appropriate.

[@samadams7573]

@@GermanShepherd1983 No need. RC Jr is stoned on booze and opioids most of the time anyway.

[@izthebiz539]

Jerry Falwell-the apple doesn't fall far from the tree!

[@hollysmithconklin847]

Women are not suppose to be pastors it is outside their design and women are in deception who believe they can walk in that role . 1 Corinthians 14 V33-37

[@michaellie5904]

Your sin is not your identity, but in Christ - as the children of the Father who is caring for you. As Christians, knowing saved by faith alone, we are indwelt by the Holy Spirit. He gives us the power to fight sins - therefore we pray, fast, read the Word and attend the church, growing to put to death the deeds of the body. The Holy Triune God himself will give us the power to persevere till the end.

[@hershpuri]

I saw Ravi Zacharias three times in my life.. across 2 continents. i did not believe lori ann or saw anything wrong when he called himself doctor.. i believed him. He did not save my soul.. jesus did.. ravi's one sermon .. why dint i feel my faith saved me from depression. i thanked ravi for his team.. for me, he put a first class team .. michael et all.. i pray that they seek forgiveness... they repent.. another thing.. if abdu murray, sarah Davis, zacharias family are part of the future team.. i will unfollow everyone..

[@anthonyrowden]

Woah...Cool background Justin! :)

[@Richardcontramundum]

Sprouls words are correct regarding repentance and the nature of the gospel. Sadly Karen has a scent of woke gospel in her tone and social justice on her lips. That gospel is no gospel at all. That gospel focuses only on the sin, whatever sin, and says you may be forgiven...but only after a certain amount of penance and works. Which any half committed Christian knows is no gospel at all.

[@keithrogers4170]

What on earth is the "woke gospel"?

[@carvermanor]

When it comes to "Sproul's words" talk is cheap. Very cheap. What Christians should care about is does he practice what he preaches? Check the man's track record and you'll discover how he's made an utter mockery of repentance (see the Spinderella Sproul blog).

[@benrex7775]

I'm against m2. I do think it is good if victims are heard. But some things are quite difficult situations. Like what is it if we have a not confirmable situation? And what level is consent and what is harassment? Let's take an example. In the actin scene if an actress has sex with a producer she gets better roles. She then does that and ten years later she claims he sexually harassed her. I personally wouldn't call him a sexual predator, if he doesn't force anyone. But I would call him corrupt. And how can someone defend himself of things which happened ten years ago? A further problem with the entire situation is, when a women accuses someone of having sexually harassed her, then she gains fame, money, if she gets succeeds and she does not get punished in any form if she made everything up. But on his end _(if he's innocent or if she exaggerated),_ the best case scenario is that the judge rules in his favor and the public doesn't notice. And the worst case he gets either a wrong judgement or he doesn't get a judgement but looses his job and reputation anyways. In such a situation I find it highly unlikely that only very few accusations are not true. If we would change that people who make wrong accusations get the same punishment as the accused would get, then the situation is entirely different. But as long as only one side can experience punishment then I don't blindly trust the honesty oft the accusers. And in such a situation _(which both sides are difficult to defend)_ I will go with innocent until proven guilty. There will be people not going to jail who should. But currently that is the less bad outcome in my opinion.

[@mrtruth5952]

Ravi found out that Jesus’s story was just stupid, so he fell off the wagon. Lol. Sacrificing himself to himself for himself

[@imara74]

I can't understand what is the big fuss about Ravi Zacharias action?? Jesus has taken care of all his sins. That was his death on the cross all about. It was for the original sins and for sins like this. Thanks to Jesus, Ravi is now sinless. Hellilujah... He did not even need to apologize to those women he molested. Jesus took care of it. Get your knowledge straight people. Stop talking about this and stop wasting time.

[@samadams7573]

Sadly there are a small minority of Christians who think that believing in Jesus gives them a license to sin. Apparently Ravi was one of them. He knows better now. "But the... sexually immoral... shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death." (Rev. 21:8) Should RC Sproul Jr not repent of his wickedness and hypocrisy he too will one day find out.

[@davidwing7645]

@@samadams7573 True. God is not mocked.

[@stacielivinthedream8510]

You need to let it go Karen!

[@jkm9332]

What exactly does that mean?

[@timsharpe6652]

Let what go ?

[@thegoreetruth1074]

She does come off quite judgmental and on a high horse. I can’t get past all of the finger pointing and sticking her nose up at everyone. I agree that accountability and repentance are important. But yikes, she’s very off putting and hard to side with.

[@jkm9332]

@@thegoreetruth1074 Pointing fingers isn’t a problem. You yourself are doing it to her by judging her for being judgmental. Maybe you should just explain what you think she says that is incorrect.

[@thegoreetruth1074]

@@jkm9332 Well it’s not something that can be talked about thoroughly through KZbin comments. But I heard very little grace from her. She sounded as if she expected perfection and nothing less. I agree that seeing leaders who have a history of unchecked poor behavior is disheartening and disgusting. But it sounded as though her personal situation with Liberty strongly colored her feelings on all similar situations. The comment that really stuck out to me was along the lines of , “If you don’t know that your friends are doing these bad things, then maybe you need to learn how to be a better friend.” Yikes. To act as though no person who is a “good friend” has ever been blind sided by someone’s secret life is unnecessarily accusatory and dismissive.