Il Trovatore, Marcelo Alvarez, Ah! si, ben mio...Di quella pira, Parma 2010

Marcelo Alvarez sings "Ah! si, ben mio...di quella pira" with Teresa Romano in Verdi's Il Trovatore at the Teatro Regio di Parma, October 2010

[@TheTema27]

Panta rei os potamos...qui nel senso che ormai nei teatri italiani (e non solo) passa di tutto. Alvarez è un buon cantante, con una bella voce e una tecnica solida. Però, Manrico non è il ruolo a lui più congeniale e si sente dalla tensione in zona acuta, così che le note lassù vanno indietro. Poi, certe cose in un cantante di quel livello non si devono sentire (preccederti....traffito...), gli urletti qua e là, un po' di naso; su la morte a me parrà c'è un trillo, o lo si fa o lo si spiana, non si bara. La regia non lo aiuta, infine. Meglio in Puccini e nel verismo....con Verdi non si sgarra.

[@joserobertocursod1341]

Bella voz y es argentino q triunfa x el mundo bravo msrcelo.alvsrez

[@Quotenwagnerianer]

Unfortunately the usual cut is made to give the tenor the resting space to sing the high c which isn't even in the score. I really want to hear both verses of the cabaletta not just one.

[@Nangis123]

Don't be silly , if the tenor sings the traditional C or the written G at the end of the scene has nothing whatever to do with cutting the first Pira verse . The first verse is usually cut because the two verses are practical identical ,the only difference being in the middle over "te". If you like Pira so much , play the second verse over and over again in the browser until you get your fill... Tenors began to sing the C instead the of the G a few years after the premier and continued to do so during Verdi's lifetime for nearly half a century. If Verdi was ok with the change I don't see why you should signal so much virtue more than hundred years after his death.

[@Vayou2023]

@@Nangis123 Dear Music Fan, are you sure that Verdi was OK with this and many other cuts and changes made to his operas? According to Britannica, "He tried to insist that his operas be performed exactly as written, without cuts, transpositions, or substitutions." If you don't know, the cabaletta is a two-part musical form and is an important component of the Italian bel canto tradition. It is intended to have two identical stanzas. To cut one of them due to the identical text and music is unreasonable and very unmusical, because this violates the bel canto tradition and the musical form. And to cut one of the two parts and several other verses in order to sing an unwritten C is ridiculous. All cuts and changes that are still being made to the operas of Verdi and many other composers, are shameful and very disrespectful to the composers!!!

[@Nangis123]

​@@Vayou2023 Dear Ernani ,are you sure you don't confuse Verdi's own opinion with the opinion of the anonymous guy who wrote whatever article you may have read in Britannica? I didn't read it ,nor do I plan to , but I am prepared to wager that article doesn't have a citation to support the claim . Secondly , Verdi himself made changes to his operas , including transpositions ,so no,he didn't insist his operas should be performed exactly as written because for some of them there was more than one version published .I am speaking generally , not specifically about Trovatore . Specifically about Trovatore , there is this bon mot about Tamberlik asking Verdi if it was ok for him to sing the C , and Verdi replying somewhat grudgingly "yes but it better be a good one" ETA: In many cases he transferred the rights of his operas to Ricordi (indeed some were even commissioned by Ricordi directly ), so it wasn't his place to insist on anything but royalties Thirdly ,a modern orchestra is very different from orchestra in Verdi's time .Modern orchestras are tuned higher , resulting in higher pitch , are larger than it's good for them , and play on modern instruments , producing a more brilliant sound that carries farther , more problematic for the human voice to cut through it .Higher pitches of the human voice cut more easily through orchestration (provided the voice has squillo and the sound is produced with reasonable power - don't expect a sound in falsetto to cut through anything but absolute silence. ) A G produced by a human voice has little chance to make it through the orchestra and the chorus ,for the G to be audible the conductor has to stop the orchestra or at least keep it very low . Should the orchestra be stopped? Have a look at the score . Modern conductors who are oh so devoted to accuracy should have a hard look at themselves and their ego first .Want operas to be performed in good ole times tradition? Begin with cutting modern orchestras in half ,tune at 432 if not lower, and let them play on old instruments .The latter was attempted but didn't find much takers . Surprise? Modern audiences are used to modern instruments , and modern instruments demand some changes in score , if you want to hear the singer ,and I want to hear the singer because opera is primarily about the human voice ,not about the orchestra, never mind how much modern conductors want to make us believe it's all about their darling orchestra . Intelligent changes/adaptions aren't disgraceful or shameful to the author of any work . Try performing Shakespeare in original old English and without cuts , and see how many takers you find .Try the same with Euripide , Racine ,Molière,and the rest of them . A lady I met on utube was making the same point about performing original choreography in classical ballet ,in costumes of 19th century fabrics , and soft shoes .She said no takers , even reputed stagers of classical ballet are aware of this and don't attempt to shove too much imagined "authenticity" down modern audiences' throat .Performing old works in modern times is always a compromise

[@Nangis123]

@@Vayou2023 4. ,bel canto tradition is soooo *NOT* about having two *IDENTICAL* anything ,it's about the right of the singer to embellish written music . Of course the singer is expected to have musical taste and artistic intelligence , which cannot be said about most singers today , but even if one of the tasteful ones would wander by mistake into the profession , the system would crush him . Mediocre and unimaginative conductors have brainwashed the population into believing bel canto is respecting the score to the letter .It isn't . Never was . The letter of the law is for students who learn to sing and for intrumentists who learn to play . Masters care about the intention of the law . Masters rise above the printed note and the printed marking , adding their own interesting touches. If you want exactly come scritto listen to a synthetizer but I doubt you can do this in a concert hall , no takers . People gather in a concert hall to listen to performers , not automatons . Performers weren't intended to be the composer's unintelligent puppet .They are even less the conductor's unintelligent puppet , and the conductor isn't god in tails . Again , I not speaking specifically about Trovatore ,I am speaking generally about bel canto , which is BTW a controversial term . For purists Trovatore isn't bel canto , for them bel canto stops with the 18th century ,stretching best case to Rossini ,Bellini ,and a little Donizetti . I am not a purist , but I am aware middle Verdi is halfway between early 19th century (Rossini ) and late 19th century/early 20th (verismo ). 5. ,no bel canto composer ever intended two identical stanzas . Bel canto is about of having an OPTIONAL second stanza for EMBELLISMENT purposes .It's also about having a cadenza , also for embellishing purposes .There are testimonials from singers who knew Verdi personally and even collaborated with him , like Antonio Cotogni ,Mattia Battistini , Adelina Patti ,Nellie Melba , who talked about working on his scores with him , and he was agreeable about small changes complementing his works 6. , you don't know the first stanza was cut SPECIFICALLY to accommodate the C at the very end ,after the second stanza and the chorus, that's balderdash , plain and simple

[@Nangis123]

7. , we live in the 21st century , post-verismo period .Our aesthetics aren't necessarily the aesthetics of Verdi's time .Performers of ANY period have brought in a whiff of their own modern period when they performed repertory works . Had they not done so , they would have been unsuccessful .One of the characteristics of the verismo period was shorter works (barely 2h long ) , the absence of embellishments , and and the absence of the da capo .The then-public liked the new works , of course , which is to be expected since verismo emerged naturally in the order of things , not like the old periods forced upon us now by contemporary conductors who have no more ideas about such works are to be performed than the common man , but pretend they know , more the fools us for believing them . Back to verismo , during the period it became common to cut da capo's in the older works , to make those works shorter and more like the new successful verismo works . Like it or not ,this is what kept those older works "competitive" ,this is what kept them in the repertoire at all 8. , not all music composers of the past used to write is gold . They were human and did write mediocre music pretty often . Not all they wrote is worth preserving .Do you believe audiences of old came in and sat through four/five acts operas ,listening in awe? LOL .Far from it ,they came fashionable late and went fashionable early ,they were a leisure crowd ,and they had many other options for amusement .Composers were aware of this , writing fill-in music when necessary .Grand opera ,particularly French Grand Opera demanded four/five acts , so composers had to stretch the music to that length if they wanted or not .Before you jump up a mile ,I'm not saying Trovatore is French Grand Opera , I'm just saying that 19th century custom or impositions doesn't always sit well with 20th and 21st century aesthetics or priorities . *Lastly* , and this refers to Trovatore's Pira at long last , pun intended . Do I like to hear both stanzas? Yes, if the singer is allowed to bring in a variation , according to the tenets of bel canto tradition . No thanks if I am made to listen to identical stuff .Verdi's score is almost identical , and respecting it to the letter isn't enough variation for me . Do I like to hear the G instead of C? Yes if the singer makes it through the orchestra , which I have never witnessed in the house .Making it to the recording mic is not the same as making it to ear of the audience . Do I like a B and C instead of a G? I'm with Verdi on this one , yes , if it's a good one . Do I like a C# or higher? No ,it's dissonant .Do I like the tenor singing the Madre infelice bit with the chorus? Yes , but if it's cut I'm certainly not going to scream bloody murder on utube , or that the composer was shamed and disgraced by doing so . I am however going to scream bloody murder if the tenor inserts crude verismo effects like screams and sobs anywhere in his performance . Not the case here .I comment civilly if the tenor doesn't understand what his role is about . It's about chivalry , honor , fate , and death .Alvarez didn't get it