Kelsey Hightower On Kubernetes & Cloud Computing | The Engineering Room Ep. 13

[@ContinuousDelivery]

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[@LewisCowles]

Kelsey seems so composed and confident and just at ease presenting. I didn't so much witness a challenge as an exchange, but I prefer exchanges to challenges.

[@pristinewebdev6680]

I love how Kelsey talks, he's so articulate and even if it gets technical, the ideas he conveys are always coming out so clear. More videos like this please, thanks a lot!.;-)

[@brownhorsesoftware3605]

Five stars for this video. Excellent discussion on several topics close to my heart. Great to hear backend folks emphasizing user experience and supporting async architecture.

[@ContinuousDelivery]

Thanks, I am pleased that you liked it.

[@ultimatedjX]

This interview is on another level. High intelligence meets experience. I'd like to see more of those, David. If you have a feeling that there's someone worth interviewing - go for it. It's not true that there's a lot of that kind of content online that's good. Not from people who know what they are talking about. Programming is still a wild west, and more than anything else we need perspective that can be trusted. Something that is going to stimulate folks to think about important matters. Your work did that for me (I'm at beggining of my career), I consider it immensly valuable and I'd like to thank you for your dedication. To me there's a night and day difference between what you offer and the rest of youtube. Rarely thare's a person like Hightower (who's clearly a genius) too. I need to meet more ot that kind of people - those who are willing to subjugate madness of complexity. To work efficiently I need to understand... A lot of people are built that way too I think.

[@OmarAbdelbadie]

I appreciate Dave for choosing to challenge and I respect Kelsey for embracing it. The conversation went so much deeper (or did it go higher?) to the crux of engineering innovation: driving adoption among a diversity of human perspectives. This is why in my work I have been drifting more towards the human element. Recently I have found Enterprise Design by The Intersection Group to be a promising framework for understanding and working thru the messiness of "human change management"

[@osagbemisunday]

Thanks, Dave and Kelsey especially for the brief challenge in which Kelsey spoke on "the other direction of system API". Kelsey seems to have missed the explanation of how they built a publicly use application that hit the "sweet spot". If possible, I think you should bring Kelsey back but with more time to challenge his opinions. Again, thank you both for this informative and opinionated session.

[@JaGEM09]

Loved watching this, i will definitely watch it again. Great explanations.

[@ES-cf4ph]

The "problem" I see with Kubernetes is, that in order to achieve the goal of implementing all it's features, the platform itself has become a highly complex, distributed system. In my opinion, it is in fact maybe to overengineered for many use cases. But another fact to consider is, that it also solves many problems like load balancing, service Discovery and health checks which makes it worth looking at it. It may not be the perfect solution for the use case, but it seems to be the easiest tool on the market. Docker Swarm is not really a competitive solution for workload orchestration when you need health checks and rescheduling. Nomad (disclaimer: I never tested it, only read their documentation) also does seem to lack service discovery and gateways if you don't run a service mesh like Consul, so even though it claims to be eaisier, it does build upon a whole different ecosystem which doesn't really solve the problem of not using an overengineered solution. And other tools solving similar tasks like K8s are pretty much non existing or died because their developers are now focusing on K8s (I am talking about Mesosphere here). That's why I personally am considering Kubernetes as a platform in my company, where we try to experiment and want to transition to microservices. Also, K8s, although still complex, has become a lot easier in the last years because of projects like K3s. It tries to strip down the features and architecture to a minimum so, you can run a cluster with even a single node while still having the option to scale to a real production cluster with multiple controllers and workers without much effort.

[@arioamin]

Stumbled upon this channel today, this was a great exchange of ideas. Subscribed and liked!

[@vinylwarmth]

Thanks for this. I'm finding the background distracting 😮‍💨

[@vinylwarmth]

@@nedgerblansky3441 I'm giving feedback which the content producer might find useful. They won't find your snarky remark useful though, that's for certain.

[@PaulSebastianM]

Yes, me too. I thought this on another video as well. Animated backgrounds that seem to be random stuff, especially if it's text, steals my attention. I can still hear and understand that voices but when I watch the speakers and move from one to the other, sometimes I can't not look at the third thing that's moving there, which is the background.

[@wizarrc]

I prefer this iteration compared to the other ones, but I still find myself distracted by the blue lights circling the video.

[@br3nto]

@Ned Gerblansky everyone’s different mate. I don’t find the background distracting, but the commenter does… and they’re not the only one… you wouldn’t say to an epileptic person to not be a snowflake when they get fits from flashing lights… they don’t control their reactions. I can only assume that people who find the background distracting are equally unable to control their reactions. So don’t call people who react differently to you snowflakes. If it annoys you that much maybe you are the ❄️

[@agh0x01]

@@br3nto funny how the the snowflake emoji coincidentally somewhat resembles the Kubernetes wheel logo

[@gustavemuhoza4212]

I enjoyed this conversation very much. I hope you invite him again to continue the discussion on the idea of the "asynchronous world".

[@optimalchoice270]

Conversation worth listening to, and concepts worth considering.

[@jasondbaker]

K8S is the kind of solution that appeals to enterprises that look at the cloud as a datacenter vs an application framework. It’s the opposite of cloud native; it’s cloud agnostic. It’s adding another abstraction layer on top of infrastructure that’s already abstracted. I’ve never seen or heard of a meaningful k8s implementation that was built sustainably or managed well, and Ive been working with infrastructure for a long time. Im not saying it can’t be done. Just that k8s turns into a dumpster fire for many orgs that thought it was an easy way to avoid infrastructure complexity.

[@karolszymanowski518]

What would be a meaningful implementation?

[@neethology]

Thank you David, thank you.

[@human_devops]

"Social is a part of engineering" love it. Would say it's a bit more than a part though. Nice pitch for cloud run however I'm not sold on it being a simpler or more attractive replacement for functions or lambdas. Great debate. Would love to hear as a podcast and can I suggest some editing for the questions occasionally?

[@kieranjeffrey-smart6741]

Thanks this is a great view into the thinking of a kubenetes engineer. Has anyone heard of cloud foundry or heroku? Kubenetes is not the first attempt to orchestrate containers. Cloud Foundry offers platform as a service experience like Cloud Run, and an equally opinionated view of orchestration and app development. CF Push was a revelation to me, I don't care what builds or deploys my image in the background, I just want to push code. Also Cloud Native Buildpacks are the best answer I've found to building consistent binaries/images

[@LastChain]

Thank you

[@dandogamer]

Dave when you do these interviews do you accept questions from viewers?

[@ContinuousDelivery]

I don't ask other people ahead of time for questions. Happy to take questions here, sometimes the subject of the episode joins in the discussion here.

[@lhxperimental]

Kelsey is the Naval Ravikant of system design

[@m.x.]

The argument about complexity can be perfectly applied to programming languages and frameworks as well. People who claim Angular has a steep learning curve has no idea of what they're talking about. Use only what you need, just like with React and Vue, which both can end up being as much complex as Angular if not more when implementing real-world projects.

[@_theman]

Amazing 👏

[@lorddidger]

Adoption is a difficult thing. Devs include without a second thought any compononent as long as it is part of Boost library. It does not matter how right you are when no one trusts you. It does not matter how wrong you are when a well known dev trusts you. To experience that is truly scary; I replaced my electronic clock with a mechanical one to feel better ;) .

[@arion_vulgaris]

Great interview! But could you make subtitles (automatic one are enough) available? That would help non-native English speakers like me :)

[@ContinuousDelivery]

Done.

[@arion_vulgaris]

@@ContinuousDelivery Thank you!

[@Joe-jf4ln]

Everytime somebody argues for K8s they totally ignore PaaS offerings in the cloud. It's always VM's or K8s and no discussion of PaaS offerings. Feels like politicians talking.

[@animanaut]

59:09 isn't that what NixOS is trying to solve? at least the reproducibility part of it. docker might have tackled the repeatable part, but not the reproducible part

[@optimalchoice270]

Thanks!

[@ContinuousDelivery]

You're Welcome!

[@reactiveland3111]

Kelsey can't think of a http less world. HTTP stack is just an option, not the best of course

[@agcwall]

It's pronounced "library" not "libary" lol.

[@sasukesarutobi3862]

It's a regional pronunciation; simplifies phonemes in a similar way to more common pronunciations of "February".

[@agcwall]

@@sasukesarutobi3862 til. Reminds me of that Simpsons episode where Homer gets super smart and Lisa says "and you say library now instead of libary"

[@ihandle24]

I think kubernetes is way too complicated and many people dont really understand. there is lot of misuse and incorrect solutions.