Ken Parker Archtoppery: Applying Finish 1

[@BucoBucolini]

It kinda blows me away to have this level of close access to the process one of the greatest archtop builders. This is just...wow... don't know that anything similar exists. I don't build guitars but this stuff but love watching this stuff, better than a movie.

[@kenparkerarchtoppery9440]

Wow, thanks! Glad you dig it.

[@havennewbowtow8835]

Very clear about the process sir, many many thanks for sharing your knowledge

[@kenparkerarchtoppery9440]

You are most welcome

[@teddodds3255]

Hi Ken. Thank you for sharing your expertise, passion, and wonderful sense of humour. If you are still looking at comments on this video, I have a question. Forgive me if it has been answered before (I did look but may have missed it) - Can this finish work equally well on a flattop (okay, 30' radius) acoustic? I don't see why not, but I have only built two guitars, both French Polished with epoxy pore fill on back/sides, with none on the soundboard. That experience, and your comments about pore filling, make me keen to try your method. Many thanks.

[@kenparkerarchtoppery9440]

Oh yes, no worries. I know that some FT builders are most definitely using this finishing method on either the whole instrument, or sometimes the top only. Some builders will want to use pore fillers on open grain woods that may complicate things, but as usual, careful testing on scrap material will reveal all.

[@kenparkerarchtoppery9440]

I think I mentioned that superstar Tony Stradiveri used exactly NO finish on the tops of his guitars, the pinnacle of "less is more"!

[@teddodds3255]

@@kenparkerarchtoppery9440 Thank you for such a quick and helpful reply, Ken. I'll add "generosity" to my earlier list of your admirable qualities. Much appreciated!

[@wilhelmmatthies5921]

thanks you for generously sharing your knowledge and experiences.

[@kenparkerarchtoppery9440]

You're very welcome. When I was starting out, a few wonderful builders spent their time to help and guide me, for which I'm forever grateful. Now that I've been around the block, I'm happy to pay back and be part of that tradition.

[@wilhelmmatthies5921]

@@kenparkerarchtoppery9440 This sub series has inspired me to use West System Epoxy-Lindseed for finishing my instruments.

[@wilhelmmatthies5921]

What scale would you suggest for weighing the epoxy?

[@kenparkerarchtoppery9440]

Glad to be of service

[@kenparkerarchtoppery9440]

I use a cheap .1g resolution flat scale that is accurate enough to weigh small amounts

[@richardtodd1379]

Thanks for this interesting finishing idea. While I have started building my first guitar I also do wood turning so I tried the wipe on epoxy and wipe on oil finish on a platter for a test. It worked very well and is how I will be finishing my turned tableware. Thanks again.

[@kenparkerarchtoppery9440]

Excellent! Press on!

[@brianmahoney7567]

Thanks for these videos, I'm learning a lot from them.

[@kenparkerarchtoppery9440]

Glad you like them!

[@gerarddefurne5048]

Hello Ken thank you very much for the transmission of your knowledge and for your innovative methods in the world of archtop cordially gerard

[@kenparkerarchtoppery9440]

Gerard! NIce to hear from you! You're most welcome.

[@mtitus27]

Absolutely beautiful instruments, beyond reproach in any dimension. The Fly was one of the few meaningful advances in the electric guitar in decades, I wish you were still involved with electrics as well!

[@kenparkerarchtoppery9440]

Many thanks!

[@V.Drouin]

Thank you very much for sharing all of your knowledge with us. I'm glad you're teaching us your way of doing finishes as I was myself trying to figure out the best way for me to do it (i.e. as ecological as possible and no spraying). Epoxy seems like a great way of doing a base coat! Cheers

[@kenparkerarchtoppery9440]

You're welcome. Bleep spraying. Ugh.

[@gingerjam2192]

Thank you Ken.

[@kenparkerarchtoppery9440]

welcome!

[@Charles-Darwin]

I thought about trying some method of finishing like this but I played it safe with a more standard methods. It makes sense and thanks for showing us how you do it!

[@kenparkerarchtoppery9440]

Glad it was helpful!

[@FSO_PT]

Thanks for the reply. (By the way, sorry if my English is not accurate but I'm Portuguese, so...). Always a rare and amazing privilege to get some insights of the ones we regard as true masters! One or two more questions (sorry). You use the steel wool or the "magic wand" :) only to solve anything not quite well or also between one of linseed oil coats? And forgive for the continued questions "bulling": You use the 105 Epoxy and the 205 hardener, in the West System its available the 407 or 410 surface filling. What do you think about it. In your finish system could you use it or its not worth it, regardless of the tonewood used? And more :( to give you more working time, what about the 206 or 209 hardener (or you get best finishing results from 205?) Last one ... and any thoughts about the use of the 207 Clear coating?

[@kenparkerarchtoppery9440]

Hi Flavio! Your English seems fine to me, nice to hear from you! You can use 0000 steel wool, or the 1200-1500 sanding sponge if you get a speck of dirt, or if you miss a little spot when you're wiping, and there's a smear of unwanted finish left behind. I try not to do this, because the finish is so thin, and after all, I'm trying to build a surface with multiple little coats, and any abrasion is going backwards. I have tried all the hardeners you mention, as well as many other brands of epoxy, and so far, the one I'm using here is my favorite. I don't feel rushed, so slow hardener is not a benefit. Also, I'm not trying to fill the pores and make the surface into a plastic mirror, it's just not my style. Hope you try it out, I think it's pretty great.

[@demetrymerkuloff]

Great technique and as always more technique than materials :) Thank you, Ken! I build flattop acoustics and I want to try this finish. What about pore filling on mahogany and rosewood and stains? Demetry, Ukraine

[@kenparkerarchtoppery9440]

Thanks for your kind words, and hang in there! I never was a big fan of pore-filling and stains, although I did mess with them when I was starting out, and its pursuit can certainly lead to excellent results. I'm told that the most reflective portions of a smooth wood surface are the inside surfaces of the cellulose tubes, which act like millions of tiny curved mirrors, bouncing light back from the cylindrical surfaces exposed by sanding or scraping the cellulose tubes and reflecting the light. Pigments and fillers can't help but shut off this reflective magic, and the surface surrenders a lot of its' shine and sparkle at the expense of evenness. I think it's more interesting to let the wood sparkle without the mud-bath of pigmented pore-filler. A benefit is the relative ease of touching-up a simpler finish, a task which is complicated by every new component we use in the finish.

[@kahunakumar1338]

Ken, what would happen if you applied epoxy to the interior surfaces prior to assembly? is there any benefit? would it help with humidity changes?

[@kenparkerarchtoppery9440]

This is what I do, wipe on one inside coat to back and sides before gluing the top. Does slow, but mos def does not stop H2O absorption, and stiffens the structure a bit, so I can work a bit thinner. Not a huge benefit, but I think it's worthwhile. Good call.

[@chuckmarfione3230]

Ken, Thanks for sharing some of your techniques, always something new to learn. We should connect and catch up. II's been a while since we last chatted!

[@kenparkerarchtoppery9440]

Any time

[@bluearchguitars]

Your guitars are gorgeous inside the box too! How do you finish wood inside of the box? Do you seal/finish the wood inside?

[@kenparkerarchtoppery9440]

Yeah, Mon! There's one coat of epoxy on the inside, just to keep things clean, and also it adds a bit of structure. The only part of the guitar that is completely free of finish is the inside of the top.

[@thijs199]

Wow, what an amazing finish, I kinda wanna just leave it at this color, it's so close to the original, can I just settle with only the epoxy coat? or should I rather also put on linseed oil (in the video 4 you mention linseed oil, but it seems it was actually true oil?)

[@kenparkerarchtoppery9440]

I like the soft shine that the linseed oil gives, also. it's a bit more protection. Tru-Oil is a brand of linseed oil with some metallic dryers and other proprietary additives we'lll never know about. I like it because it handles so well and dries so quickly, plus, it's available in small bottles so you can easily use fresh material (very important!).

[@stenquists1]

Do you know where one could find out more information about this residue that you remove with water?

[@kenparkerarchtoppery9440]

Just ask Gougeon Brothers, gougeon.com/

[@jason.b896]

Any reason you don't use the non amine blushing 207 Special Clear hardener? Also, is that the white scotchbrite style pads you're using to apply the finishes? I've really been enjoying your videos, thanks for being so thoughrough.

[@kenparkerarchtoppery9440]

As I remember it, the 207 is formulated to be UV light resistant, and also to have less surface tension, and therefore fewer bubbles in a film thickness that is applied thick enough to self-level. The way I use epoxy as the sealer coat, neither of these attributes are relevant, because the way the UV protection works is the UV blocking chemical component of the hardener is designed to migrate to the top surface of the film as it cures. Since I rub to remove the film as hard as I can, there is really "no" film thickness, and so I doubt that this UV blocking component would survive my technique, that is, no film thickness, no "top surface of the film". The 205 "Fast" hardener is formulated for the best mechanical properties of all the hardeners, and I have always used it for bonding for this reason. Since it also happens to work so well as a sealer, I haven't been tempted to try anything else, but that doesn't mean that other materials might work just as well for you. Let me know how it works if you try it. I use white (Blue and red versions of this fine product are also available) Kimberly - Clark WyPall X80 industrial paper rags to both apply and wipe off both the epoxy and the linseed oil finishes that I like to use on my instruments. I just checked, and it looks like Amazon and Home Depot are both selling the 475 sheet white roll for exactly the same #, $63.79, for a sheet cost of 13 cents. Should we look up "price fixing"? This material does not fall apart in use, and works perfectly. The only difficulty is that the full roll is heavy, and by buying two rolls once I was able to get a free matching dispenser made of steel tubing and rod to help keep it clean and off the bench. An old broomstick and rope will do fine. Use your imagination to see how long it will take you to get through one 475 sheet roll. www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-e&q=Kimberly+-+Clark+WyPall+80 I don't use white (grit-free) Scotch Brite for anything in guitarmaking, although I know that lots of folks use it to remove skin cells and hand oils from the shafts of pool cues.

[@jason.b896]

@kenparkerarchtoppery9440 Wow, thanks for such a great response, Ken! I just ordered a case of the wipe all towels. The 205 seems to be working great for you. I'll give you my thoughts on the 207 just because... I mostly mentioned the 207 due to its not blushing properties, but as you note cleaning with warm water is easy enough to remove the blush. The tensile yield is slightly lower on the 207 (7,900 vs 6,750 PSI) but it is still very strong. I only say that because I think sometimes people view it as a table top epoxy and a less structural epoxy, which really isn't the case. I know Russel Brown (wood/epoxy wizard) uses the 207 to apply fiberglass skins to the outside of his boats. I also appreciate the 207 doesn't darken over time in the can like 205 does, and I find the 207 has a thinner viscosity, especially when slightly warmed, which might be nice for your application. For the negatives, it is more expensive and certainly cures slower than 205. I know it claims UV resistance, but I haven't found it to be very good. Maybe it's fine with indoor light, but I've always applied some other coating on top of it. I'm learning so much from your channel, thanks for making these incredibly informative videos.

[@jeffmoe2660]

Hi Ken, have you tried the 207 hardener for this process? Thanks, as always for sharing your work. Jeff

[@kenparkerarchtoppery9440]

I have not. The 207 hardener is optimized for clarity, and I kind of like the amber note of the 205 hardener, but let me know if you do check it out!

[@markusanger]

What type of finish would you use on a headstock waterslide decal? Just a medium experienced builder with my own comical decal idea. Thanks. MJ

[@kenparkerarchtoppery9440]

I guess I don't know? An installed "normal" decal is about 13 microns, (.013mm) or a half-thousandth of an inch thick, although there are super-thin ones about a third less thick. I believe they are normally spray-finished until there's enough thickness and then leveled, not my thing, I'm afraid. Sorry.

[@thijs199]

I got the same resin. seems decent stuff, any idea how long I can store it after opening?

[@kenparkerarchtoppery9440]

The WEST resin systems are proven products, and work as well as any of them do. I would say that shelf life after opening seems unlimited, at least in my experience. If in doubt, just mix up a test batch.

[@gaknisguitars]

Thank you Ken for sharing. First time applying your method. Do you sand after the sealer coat or after the oil coats? Thank you!!

[@kenparkerarchtoppery9440]

I try not to sand any finish, that's kind of the point, although sometimes I'll give it a quick wipe with the 1500 grit foam pad stuff. It doesn't really remove much, and gives a nice surface.

[@gaknisguitars]

@@kenparkerarchtoppery9440 Thank you for your answer! Appreciate it!

[@PaulMcEvoyGuitars]

Hi Ken, Can you confirm you're using 205 fast hardener?

[@kenparkerarchtoppery9440]

The 205 is the only Gougeon hadener that I use for guitarmaking. Other hardeners have been formulated to help to serve the needs of artisans building boats and other non-guitar articles by either signifacantly extending the working time (206 and 209), which I don't need, or by improving the surface quality of a thick epoxy film coating (207), which I never use, but in every case at the cost of strength. I think the strength and stiffness of the 205 hardener is just right for bonding guitar components. If you plan your glue - up properly and have everything needed at hand, the "Fast" hardener gives plenty of time to coat the small surfaces we are bonding as guitarmakers, and get it all clamped up withut a scramble. Have fun, and try for minimal squeeze-out.

[@PaulMcEvoyGuitars]

@@kenparkerarchtoppery9440 thanks Ken! Much appreciated

[@jpmccann6511]

Can this be done over a stain without pulling it out?

[@kenparkerarchtoppery9440]

"Give it a go and then you'll know" is my new corny finishing mantra

[@escargotomy]

Thanks for sharing your techniques in such detail. I owned a Forest Green Fly for some time in the 90's and enjoyed its near perfect balance and lightweight feel. In a way you turned me into a weight snob when it comes to electric guitars as I now cannot abide anything much over 7 pounds. I was wondering if you could suggest a more inexpensive alternative to the West epoxy? I have a spruce topped chambered Jazzmaster body from Warmoth I will be finishing this summer but I cannot justify the price of the epoxy in your video because I only need such a small amount. Many thanks!

[@kenparkerarchtoppery9440]

Maybe try to find a local friendly furniture maker or boat repair shop if you're near water. Maybe they'd sell you a cup of it. I've gotten several mails like this, and I guess I don't know what to say. West used to offer a little repair kit with small bottles of resin, but , when I looked I only found the new kind with plastic pouches, and they're even more pricey for what you get. Bottom line is that good stuff costs money. Sorry I can't help with this one. Good luck!

[@gregholmberg2]

A lot of guitar builders use Z-poxy for pore filling. I think it can be had in smaller quantities.

[@mandrak049]

Hi Ken. I'm in proces of finishing my classical guitar (Padouk Bariole back and sides and Italian spruce for the top. The neck is flamed maple. As Padouk darkens to brown quickly I will use Osmo UV oil instead of Tru oil and see if adds some extra UV protection. Today I put the epoxy on the body and head, wipe it off and already looks great, semi-gloss. I don't like it to be to shiny. My question is: I know that you tried all in your long building experience. Have you try to finish it only with epoxy (let say 3 coats and then sand it till 3000 - 4000? It is possible that epoxy after some time cracks? Thanks for all your advices on your yt chanel.

[@kenparkerarchtoppery9440]

You can certainly use epoxy without a topcoat. The only rub is that epoxy has poor UV resistance, but this is usually not a problem for guitars. If you woip the epoxy on, the film thickness will be so thin it's hard even to measure. The epoxy film would have to be much thicker for it to crack, so I wouldn't worry about that. I certainly don't have all the answers, but I share your frustration with oxidation. Sometimes it's just what you want, a nice aging amber tone on a top, for instance, and other times you wish you had an off switch. Testing will likely reveal your best path.

[@mandrak049]

Thanks Ken. I have chose the way. Three coats of wiped epoxy on the top and thats it. For the back and sides two coats of epoxy and over it UV oil - as the last week was very hot in Slovenia I already managed to put 10 coats of oil .... 6 more (2 days) to go. For the last layer I will use 2 layers of lemon oil, let it for a week to harden and just rub it with 000 steel wool and carnauba wax. For the neck I'm using only UV oil and for the finish sttel wool with carnauba wax. For this guitar I went much thinner with the spruce top .... 2.1mm under the bridge and 1.8 - 1.9mm at the edges. The soundboard is reinforced with 7 assimetric fan braces but this time they are laminated (spruce - 0.5 mm carbon strip - spruce). In about 2 weeks I will know if this extra stiffnes in the braces + thinner top pays in sound.

[@kenparkerarchtoppery9440]

Sounds like you're having some big fun over there in Slovenia! Keep it up, your work sounds really interesting!

[@jaqocampisi]

Hi Ken, thank you so much for the series, it's priceless. What would you do for an open grained wood such as mahogany? Same process just more coats of epoxy or do you fill it some other way? Thanks again

[@kenparkerarchtoppery9440]

Thanks, Glad you're enjoying it! I suppose the filled/levelled/coated with clear plastic or shellac look has become the norm, but I've never been a fan of pore filling, although I know that nearly everyone does it on open pore woods. It just never seemed to me that those pores needed to be filled, so I just let them speak for themselves.

[@gaieroguitars]

Hi Ken. For the sanding sponge, are you using the 3M 02600 1200-1500 Microfine?

[@kenparkerarchtoppery9440]

TJ Thompson turned me on to this stuff maybe 10 years ago, and I use it all the time. I'm sure the 3M stuff is great, but the kind I use is Carborundum EZ Touch Micro Fine "P1500 - P1200", whatever that may mean. They also have coarser grits that I haven't found particularly useful, but YMMV.

[@gaieroguitars]

@@kenparkerarchtoppery9440 Thanks Ken. I managed to track down some of the Carborundum pads but the 3M ones seem easier to come by. I might try them both to see how they compare.

[@edadpops1709]

Can you put this over a water or alcohol dye ? Or only direct to wood.

[@kenparkerarchtoppery9440]

YOU are hereby deputized, my man. I have no idea, as I never really played with color. Please let me know what you discover!

[@thijs199]

Im sanding my martin guitar top, because it was just uncleanable, like even sanding the dirt just would barely come off, crazy. So I'm thinking to first put epoxy on, also because the softwood would otherwise soak up the oil completely

[@kenparkerarchtoppery9440]

I think this is right, if the oil goes on first, it can make things look muted and uneven sometimes, whereas the epoxy tends to even things out and retain the reflectivity of the wood structures, namely the interior surfaces of the cellulose tubed that are so reflective and shiny-looking.

[@teddodds3255]

I should have been clearer with my question. I'm specifically asking about epoxy on the soundboard.

[@kenparkerarchtoppery9440]

Epoxy on soundboard = Good. Many builders do this, I think.

[@markusanger]

Poly or shellac?

[@kenparkerarchtoppery9440]

Neither. Epoxy Primer and Oil from flax seed, it's all there in nerdy detail. I promise you'll discover exactly what materials I use if you watch the finishing videos.

[@robbysguitars8223]

Howdy!

[@kenparkerarchtoppery9440]

Howdy, yourself! Good luck with your work!

[@wilhelmmatthies5921]

Hi Ken, I noticed that you are not wearing a mask to protect you from toxic fumes. Are you NOT wearing a ask just to narrate your process clearer, or do you just normally not wear a mask as it is not needed?

[@kenparkerarchtoppery9440]

Normally I have a 5" box fan on a tripod right next to my face, which works very well. For the videos, it's too noisy, so yeah, that's it. The WEST epoxy is formulated for low toxicity, but there is still a minor health hazard. If I were finishing every day, I'd use supplied air, that is, a mask with fresh air pumped in from outside the shop. The appropriate organic filter masks are expensive, don't last forever, and are not completely effective in excluding the offending fumes. The resins aren't so bad, but the hardeners have some reactive components as you might imagine. If you get too much exposure to these volatile chemicals, you can develop an allergic reaction which in some cases is quite severe. Should you develop this sensitivity, it makes it impossible to safely use any product with the offending component(s). Bottom line, if it isn't food, you should try to keep it out of your body!

[@wilhelmmatthies5921]

@@kenparkerarchtoppery9440 Thanks Ken. I used the resin today out on the deck of my house but I could feel getting slightly intoxicated. I am very sensitive to chemicals. I can see how using a fan in a large space would work or blowing in fresh air. A mask might do the trick for colder weather. I made beginner's mistakes but all in all I think the process worked for me today, in the next rounds I will know better what to do. Thanks again for your patient videos. If you measure the resin and hardener and work with the humidity and dryness of the wood, it becomes an easy process.

[@takeawaybenji]

I just had a good experience with a wipe-on / wipe-off application of polyurethane diluted with mineral spirits.

[@kenparkerarchtoppery9440]

Wow, sounds smelly, hope you're using the appropriate devices to limit your exposure. If it works for you, bravo!

[@FB-gm6el]

for comparison, i wonder how many grams of, say, nitrocellulose laquer would be deposited on a typical spray(after it is dry)...

[@kenparkerarchtoppery9440]

Well, here's a wormhole for certain! Nitro can be applied almost vanishingly thin and still look nice by every measure. It's not super difficult, but it requires skill, and is not so often seen these days. Thin finishes like the one I demonstrate here weigh next to nothing by definition, and I bet there isn't too much difference between the weights of various cured finish material. Not everyone seems to value the many benefits of minimal, repairable finishes: what many of us believe is the "less is more" dictum, but I'm in good company and sticking to it!