Kendo vs Fencing

2009.11.25 Hungary,Miskolc /Mushin Kendo Klub/
Just Fun! :D

[@sghost128]

This would be a pretty interesting video, expect for the fact that it was filmed with the worlds finest wooden block.

[@miguelduque3438]

more like a flip-flop

[@SikMisfits]

No I actually didn't expect that...good call.

[@leewood8097]

Oak, spruce, dark oak, or birtch? 😂

[@Kato_Z]

except *

[@PARASITIC-APATHY]

Its from 2009 what do you expect

[@Maximillian1329]

What was the brand of potato that you filmed this on?

[@koookkk]

By the looks of it, it seems to be an Bintje. best regards sweden

[@JohnnyBong69]

8 year old nokia

[@Shoppingcartapuses]

it was 2009 man

[@JohnnyBong69]

Colin C and its now 2015 and i use a sony ericsson what are over 10 years old because the battery hold longer than 6 days , when i would i can buy a iPhone 6 with no Problems i have the Money but i dont like the new mobile phones an iam 22 years old an i know the mobilephonehype

[@athmaid]

Latin Lover​​ iPhones are crap. Just buy a phone made by a chinese brand. Oppo for example. They are cheap (in comparison to Apple) but they are very powerfull and built well.

[@fabriziobianchi6940]

If I had a dollar for every pixel in the video I would have 0.75 cents

[@sonicfx5431]

😂😂

[@61zulu77]

It would be safer if they switch helmets

[@tylerandjosh7732]

Truuuuuuuu bro

[@TheCruithneach]

+Charles Cheung That's an accurate point not many people will understand.

[@Gungrave123]

+Charles Cheung Indeed, the fencing mask is not build to deal with shinai blows, and the gaps in kendo mask are too large and the epee (or whatever it is, cant really say with this video quality) could go through them easily and hurt his eyes..

[@jorgeruiz1264]

+Gungrave123 The kendo dude had a fencer mask, right? at least from my perspective it looks like it

[@reverendfry6088]

+Jorge Ruiz Yes he does.

[@VongdaraKi4]

Read through a lot of the comments, and it seems that nobody really understand what kendo is. Many people here think that a hit to most body parts is guaranteed a point (kill), which isn't entirely wrong, but that depends on which perspective you're looking at. From a fencing perspective, any hit to certain areas of the body depending on the style of fencing is a point (kill), but in kendo, there are only 4 vital targets you can hit: head, wrist, body, and throat. And form is very important in kendo, that's why you would see the kendo practitioner stomping and going towards his opponent after striking the head (even if he missed), which are essential in kendo for a point, but it left himself open for the fencing practitioner to hit him anywhere. In kendo those fencing slices wouldn't count, unless they were flat hits on the top of the head. Both of these guys are good fighters. And as a kendo practitioner myself, the kendoka in the video has excellent form. Both fencers here are winners in their own fields. From a kendo perspective, the fencer barely landed any vital hits. From a fencing perspective, the kendoka landed a few, and the fencer landed 10 times more. They were sparring with their own rules. You can't really judge who won when they were both playing two different sports.

[@VongdaraKi4]

+Mark Le You're right. It is dumb to put two sports with different rules against each other. Kind of like putting Rugby and American Football together. It's obvious that they were following their own rules. If this was truly a versus match by your definition, then the kendo player would go for more than just the 4 vital points, and hit the legs or thrust the torso. But it's more of a sparring match. The word versus is contextual. It doesn't mean all rules don't apply. There are rules, but there are two contexts in this match. The kendo and the fencing contexts. However, you're probably just thinking of one context, and that's to just touch the other person with their sword (basically a fencing context). What does beat mean to you anyway? Surely, there is a rule :P

[@VongdaraKi4]

Mark Le Looks like no one won in this match then, lol.

[@borisdorofeev5602]

+Vongdarakia Thanks for the explanation, you made the most sense of any person in the comments. So basically this is not a practical way to determine which style is better, just a bit of fun for the athletes.

[@ericchinault1164]

+Mark Le Eh, depends on the fencing weapon. Fencing sabers and foils are very light- they are easy to knock aside, but conversely this also means they are very quick to maneuver and don't tire the wielder out. Epees are much stiffer and heavier, and have a pretty substantial bell guard.

[@1WanHan]

By the way, in fencing, if he is using a foil, it only counts if you hit in the the torso (no arms legs or head). So in some sense he has limited targets just as with the 4 vital points in kendo. But I agree, since the fighting styles are vastly different you can't really equally match them off.

[@fireemblemistrash75]

I see an average honorable duel in Dark souls.

[@BasedRamen]

DEX vs DEX

[@pauljs75]

Looks like Kendo has the stronger strikes and the guy practicing it is much more ready to take the offensive stance. However the guy doing fencing has pretty good counters with parrying moves that also bring the blade into contact with the opponent and being lighter on his feet. With the example of these two swordsmen, it'd be hard to tell who would come out ahead.

[@Thrythlind]

depends on how well the individual practitioner knows the limits and strengths of his style/weapon as well as makes best use of terrain....way too many variables...generally speaking, there's no "best" style

[@niiyarboiyartey1672]

At first I was wondering what was up with the quality but then I realized it’s 18 days away from being a decade old

[@nuqEiD]

lol

[@onyxfinger7431]

Personally, I'm fine with the quality, my big issue is the framerate. In both kendo and fencing, you can miss actions - literally - blinking.

[@Goldendragon003]

You can almost see the history of this Portuguese vs Japaneese

[@stevetakkinkwan8910]

katana ( japanese samurai sword) which held by two hands, movements are powerful (slashing and cutting and some thrusting), yet relatively, movements are relative big, which might expose oneself large body area opened up for being attack, swing/ slashing/ cutting movements of the katana also relatively taken up more time and telegraphed the intentions. Fencing using thrusting and poking movements with foil, sabre( slashng , cutting as well), motions are fast, agile and small ( straight line is the shortest distance). One hand controls(i.e. wrist movements)foil, is faster,more agile than two hands controls the katana , but two hands motions are powerful and strong for diagonal cuttings. Therefore,a fencing practitioner uses straight back and forth movements for fast attacks( straight line), to counter,a kenjutsu( recommend kenjutsu more than kendo)should use side steps and circling foot works ( non- linear line, circling) to deflect and evade the initial fencing forward frontal attack, and following with side steps and circling foot works and body movements to get aside to the side of the opponent, then finish with a lethal slashing or cutting or thrusting. Both the western fencing and the japanese Kenjutsu style martial arts have advantages and disadvantages, the practitioner' s skills, techniques, tactics, experience, mental and spiritual ability determine the final outcome. Chinese martial arts (weapons) have both the styles ( single hand held sword(two sided sharp and pointed tip) and broadsword( one side sharp) ) with circular body movements and foot works, Chinese martial weapons also have two handed held long sword style( the sword is called "miao dao/ 苗刀", slightly curved, overall longer than the katana) with back and forth as well as circular body movements and footworks.

[@superdesu2799]

+steve tak kin kwan this video is interesting because the kendo guy is purely trying to fence but even so he's still using strong habits from kendo, he raises his sword easily, his legs are closer together than the fencer & he's always the first to advance towards.

[@stevetakkinkwan8910]

+leaf nichols kenjustsu is preferrable than kendo. kenjustsu has sidesteps practice and kendo is a sport which only lounge forth and back. imagine a real fight in old times in Japan. two samurai fight for dead and honour, one only lounge forth and back with all might like a charge bull, the other skillfully and gracefully sidesteps and turn and keep facing the enemy, guess what the outcome would be?

[@stevetakkinkwan8910]

+leaf nichols the one who attack first get the advantage of being initiative, but also expose himself with opening. There is something called "response second but arrive first. " when the enemy doesn't move, I don't move, when the enemy just start to move, I reach him first.

[@stevetakkinkwan8910]

Mark Le you missed the point, the point is "foot works".

[@stevetakkinkwan8910]

Mark Le you missed the point, the point is "foot works".

[@stevebledsoe71]

was there even a clear winner? both of these guys seemed to be very well trained and lightning fast. i wasnt able to tell how many strikes either man delivered to his opponent . great fun to watch tho

[@keithrollman1763]

I'm pretty sure the fencer got his arm cut off three times

[@stevebledsoe71]

Haha! like i said.I think its a close enough fight that it just comes down to personal opinion.

[@kecs2]

goltoof so if anything they both killed each other lol

[@tianxingcao9552]

don't wanna sound rude but the fencer guy is pretty bad. Check out some real fencing bouts and you'll see what is "lightening fast"

[@kecs2]

goltoof The point im making is that aiming for the vitals doesn't guarantee a person will die immediately as soon as your point reaches theirs. If they were using real swords, they both would have severed their vitals.

[@chinogambino9375]

2 suicidal forms of sports fencing clash, who will be the least dead with live blades? Find out next on "shit that never happened".

[@alanwake287]

Best comment on one of these "Kendo vs Fencing", videos, ever. Utterly priceless. Kudos

[@tfilipealmeida]

You know portuguese and spanish soldiers did duel with japanese samurai? they used similar swords to rapiers and the vast majority of the encounters using the sword and dagger tecnique against the two-handed katana. In the portuguese chronicles the japanase swordmanship and swrods are described together with the clothes and customs because they didn't give much importance to it. For them the japanese were just another eastern swordsman that lost against western practices. The aura of the samurai is a XIX onwards thing. And portuguese and spanish blades were better made, you check the historical data. In fact some japanese lords ahd their katanas made in Toledo, Spain...

[@tsoliot5913]

tfilipealmeida I'd love to read those chronicles. Any links?

[@bambooswordsman1]

TSO Liot There are no links because he's just making things up. When the Japanese first purchased firearms from two Portuguese gentlemen, the Japanese were producing higher quality swords and steel than the Spanish. Read any book or watch any documentry on Japanese history for proof. He's just trying to make himself feel better because he knows the Spanish haven't be a 1st or even 2nd rate power since the late middle ages. (Though, to be fair, that isn't a reflection of the fighting spirit of the Spanish people, i.e. the origin of the term guerrilla warfare.)

[@tfilipealmeida]

bambooswordsman1 First, I'm portuguese and guerilla, although coming from spanish, the spanish one comes portuguese guerilha which started first than the spanish guerilla because we were invaded first and started guerilha against the french. After 3 failed invasions by the french imperial army we together with the british took back spain and then france. Too bad modern history downgrades non northern countries but whatever... Until the 19th century england and france were 2nd rate empires but victors write history? Read about the balck legend where anti iberian history is debunked like the invincible armada: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Legend Second, in the Indian Ocean and Far East the portugues and also the spanish to some extent usually had victories agaisn armies 10 or more times bigger, where gunpowder and normal weapons were the norm, due to tfighting tecnique and not the quality of the arms. (Turks had better cannons and muskets, Indians had better steel blades (yes, better than japanese) ) Relating the links, I didn't know where to find them, but onesec8 has put them in the answers, odd that you didn't try to read them. The originals are in Torre do Tombo, the national archive in Lisbon, you are free to come here, to the capital of the first, last and long-lived overseas empire where the guys who defeated japanese sailed once in teh past. I don't udnerstand why people think katanas are the ultimate thing ever. They are terrible at stabing compared to other swords but very nice at cutting. If you go and check when in Europe dueling starting to be a fashion swrods evolved to meet the challenge, they became longer while light because it was the best way to win on a 1vs1. If you put a kendo guy agains a fencing one he will lose because the tecnhique he uses is made to go against people with armor and with a sword used primarily for cutting and not stabiing, requiring him to be closer to do damage. In any case, the quality of the smithing in japan was really great, however, costs were too high to manufacture those high quality blades which even though great, a european was good enough while much much cheaper to produce and still able to defeat it. Also, those high wuality were only for nobles and high born, a normal soldier or poorer samurai would have very low quality blade, much worse than a normal wuropean blade. PS: The teqnique the portuguese used in that time, which carried to spain as well, was to use a sword (almost rapier, so very long and thin with the index finger over the blade for the sword to be at 150º used to both cut and stabing) and dagger, which is almost undefeated combination.

[@yayo4624]

Nice duel. Too bad it was recorded with a potato.

[@andrewvida3829]

I notice a bit of the all-too-common "my daddy'll beat up your daddy" brand of argumentation here. It is a priori impossible to predict who would win in such a battle because combat is, by its very nature, non-linear. I don't care if we are speaking of all-out warfare or two sixth-graders punching each other in their noses. Once fighting commences, anything can happen. Put two people face-to-face in mortal combat and almost anything can happen.

[@synx5196]

finally someone who doesn't just see in black and white

[@zenmeister451]

+Andrew Vida I once read an article that expressed the viewpoint that in a prolonged confrontation between a French-styled fencer and a Japanese-styled fencer the French style would (assuming of course the obvious possibilities) win. However, considering the potential of the Japanese style - depending so much on the ferocity of initial attack - the French fencer would lose. I have virtually no experience with French fencing and only a small amount with Japanese-styled fencing. Therefore, I have no solid opinion...just reiterating what the article said.

[@andrewvida3829]

zenmeister451 Meh, as I wrote above, there is no way to say for certain. One can predict statistically, but that is still just a guess which, when you get it right it proves nothing about your prowess to predict. Same when you get it wrong. Shit happens, and trebly so when two or more people are facing off in serious conflict where lives are at stake. I like the Japanese approach to martial art, which is why I have 44 years of jujutsu behind me. As much as I respect the art, I hold no illusions about it, or any other approach to combat, being the "ultimate art". At the end of the day things always boil down to two men facing one another. Each may be divinely trained and yet one or both will still lose because that is the nature of the game. One man may grossly outmatch his opponent, yet he takes a misstep and the "lesser" man is able to take advantage and kill his superior opponent. Consider modern warfare where no amount of training protects you from stray shrapnel that finds your carotid artery and you bleed out in 45 seconds. Martial arts, what I call The Art, is a great thing, but the thing for which it ostensibly trains you, war, is shit. In fact, where martial arts training is most successful, what it will have trained one in is to have no desire for war, but only peace because destroying another man is a terrible thing. Life is precious.

[@RichardRiddick78]

+zenmeister451 Not sure why you assume that the french are the best at fencing. The italians were much better historically and still are today. Be that as it is, this video proves nothing as far as fencing vs samurai sword is concerned. Using a bamboo sword is not an accurate picture. Its a huge advantage for a samurai to have a bamboo sword and only have to touch the opponent. a samurai sword is much heavier and much slower. The movement is also very different because the recovery is a lot different. It is unfair to say either style is better based on this video. I like both styles. I would prefer a lighter sword, like a rapier in a duel, and a samurai sword against an armored opponent. both swords are good and both styles are good. The skill of the user is more important than the style or type of sword. My only beef is -- please dont call it french fencing because the french were not the inventors (the spanish invented fencing) nor were the french the best. They are not the best today either.

[@zenmeister451]

RR, I don't believe I ever said the French were the best. I was simply using the French to make a point. Also, whether the French were the best or not, they were still French fencers, eh? The differences between fencing (ala French or Spanish style) and Japanese fencing are quite profound. Since, for some reason, I cannot review what my post actually said, I wrote it as something of an aside. I never said that I believed that one was better or more effective than the other. I was merely restating what other 'pundits' have suggested. Thanks for your post.

[@StudSupreme]

Foil against katana hardly seems fair. A rapier would be more appropriate.

[@StudSupreme]

doc dic That too. :-) In other words, a weapon that is more solid.

[@benzhuynh5784]

Just wondering. How easily would a katana break a foil?

[@nsquidc]

StudSupreme He *is* using a saber. His weapon has a hand guard, he is taking a saber stance, and is using saber parries.

[@Mephilis78]

nsquidc in that case he really is pretty slow. Its almost as if he thinks its an epee

[@ryroyce]

Why not both?

[@jello788]

>> >....... *starts the why not both music*

[@simetrohi3336]

When u play for honor

[@darraghvanodyck7216]

Part of the problem here is both practitioners are following rule or sport styles of fighting rather than tradition. This is particularly evident in the kendo fighter leaving them self open after attacking and stomping hard on the floor with each attack.If Ridolfo Cappo Ferro and Miyamoto Musashi where to spar, it would look a lot different (and not only because they would be insanely more skilled than these two, being legends and all)

[@ESFDragxnFistEntertainment]

I see that a lot in MMA nowadays you are definitely write back then people were exposed to more real life fights to the death compared to now where we don't have to take a fight seriously because most of our fights are in the dojo or for pro sport

[@bighands69]

Most of them MMA fighters would easily move over to no rules fighting. Now how successful most of them would be is a different matter and I would say most of them would chicken out if they knew what they were getting into.

[@jh0330u]

I did kendo in the past. The reason for stomping hard and leaving themselves "open" is because those are kill shots. Stomping is for power and leaving your arms up and running/following through is to protect your vital spots with your arms and blow through.

[@7dayspking]

+Jh um stomping doesn't generate power, that's not how momentum works, pushing off the ground generates momentum...slamming your foot against the ground does not. It's probably more of a distraction. In real life you can't land kill shots if you don't have any hands.

[@jh0330u]

7dayspking the "stomping" occurs when your lead foot hits the ground. When you shift your weight in for momentum (mass *velocity = kg*m/s) you use your lead foot for balance and to shift the weight again. I guess it can be used as distractions but it is not mainly for distraction... It has similarities as other sports such as boxing (jab + lead foot), judo (stepping in for position + power), etc. It IS for momentum/shifting weight and footwork (and body position). Think of it like this. You cannot leave your lead foot stretched in (ex. boxing) during a sword fight but once you quickly step inside, shifting your weight forward (momentum kg*m/s), how would you quickly stop the momentum of your entire body? Also, (if you are saying that protecting vital spots with arms is wrong) there are much less vital spots on your arms than on your face. It would be a hard fight but you can fight with an injured arm. Alternatively, it would be very hard to fight with an injured face/eyes/neck (or dead).

[@lizardipeters6612]

in kendo the kendoka won easily in fencing the fencer won easily... the point system are just way too different

[@Morting22]

@Maximillian Fox nokia e51

[@SuperDraupnir]

This is pointless as the kendo practitioner is using a bamboo stick instead of a sword and the fencer is using a car antenna instead of a sword. Look up historical fencing instead for some real swords and real fencing.

[@kcludlow]

So the fencer won?

[@gutz1981]

Although there is not clear enough footage to see how many blow were landed. I saw Fencing as the dominant style in this match. Both were very close in terms of speed, but I felt the Kendo exponent was too rigid and his major blows were too often block by the Fencers more relaxed lightweight style. But well played by both. Well done.

[@YunoUwU]

gutz1981 it s because fencing allows alot more hits that count. Kendo only allows 4 vital spots

[@mashy461]

Nathan Tritchka That’s not the point. In a really battle you can stab someone and leave them still able to fight. The 4 vitals can lead to an instant and clean kill. Just because it sounds like they’re just “rules” doesn’t mean there is no reasoning behind it

[@Trevlodas]

man if this was a real fight the fencer would be split half

[@thecomradered]

You can't get an instant and quick kill from those four targets. Even striking someone on the bare head wont kill immediately because of the thickness of the skull.

[@maebe7668]

mashy461 yea but if you slash someone's hamstring and they fall to one knee that's ultimately gonna lead to a kill. Just focusing on killing strokes is like a boxer only focusing on one punch knockouts.

[@tSp289]

The reason I stopped fencing is because I got told off for side-stepping and attacking knees and thighs, even though it actually worked. It's a great sport, but it _is_ a sport. I would love to try a style of fencing that did not have sporting rules but instead demonstrated best technique. I understand not thrusting to the face of course, but any other attack should be fair game.

[@PeterHyder]

look into joining your local historical military sabre school, HEMA etc.

[@tSp289]

Peter Hyder I moved to Australia. Unfortunately even archery is seen as being the preserve of massive nerds and social retards here, so it's pretty hard to find a club.

[@Edward-kh5ub]

use an eppe

[@jerome96114]

So go for HEMA if you want something european, or for Kenjutsu or Iaido, or chinese sword sparring if you want something oriental. Both epee fencing and kendo are castrated sports that are nowhere near to a real fight.

[@tSp289]

***** Yup, nothing going on in this city. When I eventually move back to civilisation, I'll be looking for longsword classes. I'd really like sword and shield classes too, but that's harder to find again.

[@mauricedelorenzo5213]

Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side.

[@thedroidish]

"You don't believe in the Force." "Kid I've flown from end of the galaxy to the other,..seen A lot of strange stuff. But, I've never seen anything that makes me think there's one all powerful force, that controls everything. It's all A lot of simple tricks and nonsense."

[@Toph.Beifong.]

I really like when people sport good swordsplay, its very entertaining.

[@nickn8302]

you can't even see the blade of the foil for christ's sake

[@Generalchaos192]

Sabre*

[@S3aCa1mRa1n]

I remember when I told someone I wanted to learn fencing they replied "you know it's impractical you aren't gonna have you weapon all the time." That maybe so, but you have to admire how swordsmen are so quick on their feet.

[@marcusfino2777]

How I see it, is that Fencing is a better defensive art & Kendo is a better offensive art. But no art is necessarily better than the other & we could all learn from these martial arts, by applying Bruce Lee's philosophy to them both and absorbing what is useful & discarding what is not. Taking the best out of both worlds, if you will.

[@jothegreek]

rapier was used to avoid armor and pierce from distance unarmored parts katana was used for cutting power and to be used with fully body armor

[@gunningpreacher180]

You are fundamentally correct but he is using a foil, not a rapier. The rapier developed under some different circumstances than the foil. As range weapons like the bow/arrow, crossbow, musket, cannon, etc were developing the arming sword slowly evolved into the rapier as armor itself became obsolete. It was the "gentlemen's weapon". I am a rapier fighter and we use several different techniques and moves than the french fencing styles do with the epee or foil which came at the end of the hundreds years war in France. The rapier is from the Italian penn.

[@Edward-kh5ub]

Q Mono It looked like a sabre

[@ChaoticNarrative]

Q Mono If you look closely, he's actually using a Sabre.

[@ChaoticNarrative]

True, hence the historical technique of Half/Cap Swording, you hold the sword with a hand in the middle of the blade and force it through with all your weight at the first opportunity.

[@aguirronunbound]

Now I understand, Darth Vader practised fencing while Luke, Kendo, goood. Probably these are both practising ;)

[@ChaoticNarrative]

Every Martial art carries it's strengths and weaknesses, I think it's Fantastic to fight an opponent who uses different weapons and techniques, certainly not an opportunity that should be wasted. These two Martial Artists likely were of the same mindset and nobody should scrutinise their proffesions in any way.

[@Ashen75]

Fencing and Kendo are two different sports, but nice vid anyway :D

[@IvicaMilaric]

Next up: Kendo vs Sleeping Fencing vs Doing laundry

[@MrHousecup]

Hello...My name is Inigo Montoya...

[@silentlineac]

Hilarious.

[@leonart4216]

this is not spanish fencing at all

[@duncanng3]

Leonart You are using Bonetti's Defense against me, ah?

[@cunt8027]

Hi

[@haochaotsiminh6193]

Duncan hahahahahahhahahahahhahahahahahhahahahaha

[@au46tro9]

weapons are unimportant. The quality of the swordsman is.

[@Sgtcheesecake1]

i agree but all factors come into play swords, fighting style, time spent training, skill and fatigue

[@PaulusdeKenezy]

Who won? I can not see.

[@PaulusdeKenezy]

***** The question was, who is better on the street? A Fencer or a Kendoka?

[@GreatToastMigration]

+Origenes Trismegistos Who in the Hell breaks out in a fencing match in the streets?

[@PaulusdeKenezy]

GreatToastMigration Just theoretically. Every fight or competition is about that. People are curious who would win...

[@GreatToastMigration]

Origenes Trismegistos Ah, alright. My previous comment was more of joke than anything. I was just imagining two men dressed in 15th century clothing, walking around town and randomly erupting into a sword fight. ;)

[@ericchinault1164]

+Origenes Trismegistos There have only been 4 recorded encounters between samurai and western swordsmen (all dutch traders IIRC). The westerner's won 3 out the 4 matches.

[@Gaizkia]

this is definately recorded with a potatoe

[@sofoniza]

Were you watching Danisnotonfire before this?

[@benjaminpalko6974]

The fencer's stance was not proper. In fencing you want to make your body the smallest target possible, therefore your chest should be at a 90 degree angle with your outreached arm and your unused arm should be behind your back.

[@hunbunfun132]

Fencer gets 10+ kill shots Kendo got 2ish Theres a reason the rapier became of the sword.

[@tanrayan40]

No it's épée

[@vladjovan2744]

+Angry dude with no future SABRE

[@ericlanglois9194]

+Crafty Zen You know that "épée" literally translates to "sword" >.>

[@dhdowngbrldicjd]

No, foil is the one with the small guard. Epee has a guard that covers the entire hand. But the guy in the video is using an epee.

[@Mephilis78]

By the gods I think I'm becoming a fencing snob lol

[@AureusPercussor]

Both combatants are very highly skilled and it seems it was a 50/50. Neither is superior.

[@zichen3338]

GREAT QUALITY! loved how the lady in black kept making earthquakes while the man in white kept flying out of Japan

[@anisoueslati11]

did you just assume her/his/it's gender !!!!!

[@firstnamelastname489]

Triggered!

[@holdshiftt2run308]

+anis oueslati I am quadrupled non-binary rectangular hexagon gender.

[@danielzandora6521]

Those still dreaming about mystik samurais defeating medieval europeans warriors in one second on the battlefield, know that in 1610 there was a confrontation between the portuguese and the japanese in Tanegashima, and the portuguese Carrack Madre de Deus was surrounded by 3000 japanese soldiers and withheld for 3 days with no difficulties. Did the portuguese had fire weapons? Yes, and so had the japanese, but certainly japanese attempted to board the ship, since they exceeded the portuguese 10 to 1. In the end, just as the portuguese thought they had won, there was an accident with a grenade in Madre de Deus and the ship´s sails caught fire, leading the Captain André Pessoa to blow himself with the ship. And for that he was revered as a honorable warrior in Japan.

[@Grim67894]

Portuguese sailors aren't medieval warriors

[@dangergirldesigns5943]

@@Grim67894 very true but we should take for granted that English is not Daniel's first language. They typically carried cutlasses or rapiers. What Daniel mentions was only one of quite a few historical brawls before Japan closed its borders, though. It got to the point that, when Portuguese merchant marines went for shore leave, they were under orders to leave their swords on the ship. Competent and properly trained Western fencers are befuddled by the technique known as the hanging guard; I can only imagine how samurai who had never seen such a thing fared. Such incidents only fueled Tokugawa's decision to close of Japan from Europe (Never mind the Jesuits! lol). I should also mention that the Dutch did very well against samurai with their klewang sabres.

[@pete4007]

Lol fake history

[@FoieGras]

@@dangergirldesigns5943 LOL! Pesoa KILLED himself as to not fall into Japanese hands (a very un-Christian thing to do, I might add). There was No One ALIVE! That's even AFTER all that missionary work. AFTER all that political intrigue (and missionary work from the Jesuits). The self-imposed isolation? That's BECAUSE Japanese people had that type of POLITICAL FREEDOM to do so. Otherwise it would've been a COLONY like Brazil! You'd think they'd LET Japan stop trade routes if Japan was at their mercy?! They did it because they were DISHONEST PEOPLE and they DIDN'T FEEL LIKE SHARING THEIR RICHES WITH THEM ANYMORE! When the Spanish came later, they were TOLD not to get on the Japanese's bad side! Hanging guard...right. I don't know anything about it, but I can BET that it's just a classical gimmick that when figured out, is useless. Japan has some of those as well. I'll give this to Rennaissance-era fencers. They do know how to spin a story! A far cry from the knights of the middle ages, I'd say.

[@alexyguadalupe3456]

If anything, kendo was defused in this bout mainly due to the fact that the Foil Duelist wasnt falling for the feints delivered by the Kendo Practitioner.

[@keonianderson5145]

This is really cool, why did Deadliest Warrior never do anything like this?

[@DireSloth]

Because Deadliest Warrior is a shitty show.

[@keonianderson5145]

The show was lame the idea was great

[@kamaeq]

Keoni Anderson +1, sooooo many errors and false assumptions in there. "Oh the guy with the heavy armor...." (which really wasn't that heavy) "...is going to get all tired out and worthless..." (like you dweebs who assume that nobody ever trains) "...an then he'd lose." (forgetting the fact that the armor and *weapon* are superior to his opponent's, which means he would be hard to wound and would gut the other guy if he hits him)

[@keonianderson5145]

kamaeq They also dont consider the living conditions of the warriors. If a guy lived to 25 in a harsh ass barren wasteland or trained his whole life to kill other people its going to play a huge role in a fight against the spoiled son of an aristocrat who treats combat like poetry.

[@sinister0077]

DireSloth You're a shitty show

[@assassintwinat8]

Kendo has always looked awkward to me.

[@TheCruithneach]

+assassintwinat8 It's a cultural relic, like most fencing since the development of efficient firearms. So long as you are dueling with another Kendo fencer it is relevant but its Pris de Fer type arc attacks is too tactically slow to be a match for a Rapier or Small sword unless he could get in quick and lop the guys hands off. It is not necessary to dice your opponent into confetti to dispatch him in sword play.All that is required is a hole 2" deep in almost any area of the thorax and the guy is in a serious predicament and should make a beeline to a hospital. Believe it or not, for all the pikes Haberts Battle axes and such the true King of edged weapons in early Warfare was the humble dagger. It has dispatched more people than old age.

[@assassintwinat8]

TheCruithneach still never got in to kendo or fencing. neither are my style

[@jhjh151]

+assassintwinat8 Kendo is like Dark Souls dueling.

[@holdshiftt2run308]

+assassintwinat8 what sword style do you do?

[@assassintwinat8]

HoldShiftt2Run Hoplite

[@TheChristopherBlood]

This is an example of a fencer who has a defensive style. Even so, on each occasion he successfully parries the kendo attacker and ripostes cutting open the kendo guys chest. A fencer in this situation can also be the aggressor!! This kendo stance lends itself to a beat attack or pris-de-fur attack; as the kendo weapon is held way out away from the body. The advantage of the fencing footwork over kendo footwork is particularly in the lunge as it allows the fencer to stay out of range until prepared to strike and then close distance rapidly to execute the attack. I would lunge at this kendo guy and either beat attack to head or thrust into body before he has time to parry. Its over very quickly this way. Remember, Fencing is a sport, and meant to be fast. That is why the weapons are so light and flexible. Imagine the fencer with a real size sabre for a better comparison.

[@davereid-daly2205]

If that was a real fight the guy with the katana would be dead because the fencer would be armed with a dagger in his other hand, which was typical at the time

[@劉曜彰-f1r]

well tbh, fencing is a sport between nobles, so they don't really use the dagger,and it is hard to do different thing w/ both hands

[@davereid-daly2205]

I don't agree, my fencing master fought with both, and challengers came to fight him from all around the world.

[@劉曜彰-f1r]

oh sorry, I don't know much about fencing, but I think your master must be very good to be able to use both hands well, and there are not a lot of people who practice fencing still practice using the dagger. If not talking about these 2 guys but fencing vs kendo, there are also people who use 2 katana at the same time, the most famous who does that is Miyamoto Musashi (宮本武藏), so I think it depends on individual skill. There are also people who can people who have sword when naked hand (well with some special gloves). If possible can you tell me your master's name? I'm not questioning about what you say, just that I love knowing about all kind of people

[@davereid-daly2205]

Paul Liu Paul, you may find the book, " sword of no sword", very interesting. Its about the life of Japans greatest swordsman, who fought most of his fights with a bokken because he did not want to kill his opponent, even though his opponents faced him with a live sword. He was more interested in mastery than killing, unlike Musashi. My master is known by top level swordsmen who fight for mastery privately. Go well. Dave

[@Itzgabezone]

right now, since they both have wooden weapons the fencer would win. but since you're talking about a real fight, the samurai would win. the samurai has a better and sharper sword that was designed to kill in one slice, and the samurai was trained to kill in one slice. the fencer and his rapier were meant to duel, to parry, to clash swords, but the rapier can't handle the katana's metalwork and the fencer can't handle the samurai's two handed strikes. they are two completely different arts and swords, the rapier is a thrusting sword, and the only way to parry with a strong slice is another one.

[@CJGOM]

In a real fight give me a real Japanese katana. When it comes to style fencing or kendo they are both good it just a matter of what type of person you are. Shinai is two handed like a katana and a foil uses one hand.

[@ApolloMars1617]

i take the rapier or foil and a dagger. You will try to strike in real combat. you must come chlose that my faster rapier can stab you while you ty to strike (rising your arm) than your dead and try to hit me with your last breath. My dagger deflect the strike. your dead i win. real italian combat move in Thirty Years' War (basic). fencing is stylish because you cant grab the enemy sword or push or use another weapon. in real combat fencer used it.

[@CJGOM]

dagger would be a mistake to block with against a two handed weapon. The rapier was design for quick attacks that may not be fatal, but still injure opponent. If an opponent had any armor on the rapier or foil would be at a disadvantage versus a katana that can cut through armor. The reason why many Japanese style sword men would face losing would be underestimating opponent, but that can be resolved if the opponent knows both styles. Both styles of fighting and swords are good for what they do it comes more down to personal skill.

[@Maciliachris]

motionfire There's no reason why it would be a mistake to block with a dagger in every case. Both the European and Japanese traditions from the people who actually fought teach such techniques. Basically you're correct with your idea of the Katana being better in armoured battle, however no Katana would cut through any armour. Not even another sword. There are weapons made to fight armours directly but swods are none of them, you have to aim at the weak points in this case.

[@CJGOM]

Aiming for a weak point is always a swords men goal. Overall I think western or eastern styles of sword fighting are good and proved themselves over the centuries because both have obvious advantages and weakness that's why it comes done to personal skill and not underestimating opponent.

[@MrThesilverarcher]

I put my money on the fencer he has a longer reach and he can move more dynamic and he has more freedom in motion

[@jamestyler4676]

Funny how some people think a katana will cut though other steel. So much bs from Japanese fanatics. The katana is not a spectacular sword... it is actually prone to breaking if struck on the flat hard enough or if you strike with the flat. it also is not a long sword, is heavy and is two handed. A single handed blade has much more reach, flexibility and way more motions and attacks can be made. The katana is just a single edged two handed sword. Also, if you have ever fenced or done any sort of weapon based martial arts, you will know it is damn near impossible to get around a shield with a two handed blade like the katana.

[@Jfoltz39]

People seem to think its the weapon that makes the winner, and not the skill of the actual fighter themselves.

[@danielkostrzynski7151]

Jfoltz39 That's a fair comment. But if you were to give me a cardboard box and a stranger on the street (with less fighting experience than myself) a sword and tell us to go at it, I think the weapon would indeed make the winner.

[@Jfoltz39]

... :/

[@Sarkhamy]

Jfoltz39 I think we can all agree its a combination. You need skill and the right tool to be effective. Which is why this whole weapon debate is relevant.

[@jamestyler4676]

Vivian Ho You are silly.

[@johnking2601]

doesn't even make sense to put a fencer vs kendo...if a person beats a fencer using kendo...that means the fencer sucked... fencing is probably the worst swordplay to go in a duel against using another form of swordplay...the whole idea of fencing is playing fast and defensive...you aren't looking for lethal blows in single strikes...you look to exploit enemies fault to eventually defeat them....it's annoying to fight vs fencers... i remember when i was in Japan they had two rather popular masters...one trained as a "Samurai" (i don't know if anyone can be called a samurai anymore), and a fencing maestro...the samurai couldn't do anything...not a single blow vs the fencer...and when the fencer was in trouble at any point he would strike the enemy at their hands with easy...due to a fencers stance and long reach(a fencing sword is as long as a longsword, i never knew that until i saw him show us and compared it to the swords they had there) it was easy to do apparently for a master especially since most sword styles require a slashing motion...

[@nurmaik7902]

I love 240p Videos!

[@danielzandora6521]

Another thing. People saying that the fecning weapon are flimsy, that is because modern fencing are based on civilian weapons for duel and self defence, or light military sabers of the 19th century. European battlefield swords of the 15th to 17th century were broadswords with 35 inch blades, much longer than 28 inch katana, but about the same weight, Rapiers were usually 40 inchs or longer, and could be heavier than broadswords, but were civilian weapons, designed for unarmoured duels and selfdefense, not warfare. Of course they would have huge advantage on duels.

[@danielzandora6521]

***** In portuguese the name is Espada Larga (lit. broadsword), and as you can see on this picture ""pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duarte_Pacheco_Pereira#mediaviewer/Ficheiro:Duarte_Pacheco_Pereira.jpg " on the hands of Captain Duarte Pacheco, it was a basket hilt sword that portuguese already used in the late 15th and 16th century. It is well documented that it could cleave someone in half during battles.

[@danielzandora6521]

***** Perhaps... It certainly don´t look like a scotish broadsword, and that picture and the blade is a little thin, but it was called Espada Larga, and since I´m a portuguese speaker I can say the difference between wide(largo) and long(longo). However that specific sword on the hand of the Great Pacheco don´t matter, and the drawing isn´t perfect also. What matters is that on the battle of Cambalao Pass(1504), it´s registered that at one account the son of Duarte Pacheco, named Lisuarte, described as a very strong soldier using a large basket hilted sword (if you prefer this description), was swollen by the ranks of the indian army and considered dead by the portuguese that retreated, but when they returned for the corpse they found him alive over a pile of corpses and severed limbs, and one of them (sic) "was cleaved in half", that is something that a arming sword wouldn´t do. You must understand that by that time the main troops of the portuguese navy wasn´t crosbowman, archbusier, bowman, pikeman, or halberdier, it was the Espadeiro (swordsman), and they didn´t use some flimsy and short blade, they used battlefield swords able to defeat armour, parrying dagger, round shields and plate armour.

[@chiliblack02]

hahahaha Europe is the last country to have any good swords!!!!!!!!!

[@ManuChao4live]

benard Sellers it isnt even a country , but nevermind

[@chiliblack02]

you didnt get the joke huh?

[@Elly3121]

Kendo

[@matteobelanger6723]

So a Musketeer against a samurai.... interesting

[@MBKill3rCat]

I never understood what is so great about fencing... Who in their right mind would fight like that in real life? What does lightly tapping your opponent's blade accomplish? Why would you stand there and wait for them to attack? Sure, sometimes that could be advantageous but certainly not all the time.

[@RandyLeftHandy]

Martial art. Besides, what would make you fight like that is relative to the armor in the period that that particular fighting style came about.

[@xxXfanosXxx]

I totally agree with Jon agorn... And i was doing sport fencing for some time and i assure you that is one of the hardest sports ever, since you need a very good physique,but also focusing, knowledge and technical abilities

[@mykulpierce]

George Silver would agree with you. The beginning of the end for European swordsmanship came before 1600. In 1599, George Silver wrote the Paradoxes of Defense in which he criticized the standards of foreign rapier fencers introducing a style meant for first blood or first touche dueling. The style was out of touch with that used in actual combat on the battlefield. In a historical context the rapier fencing eventually turned into our modern sport fencing. The sabre in fencing today in no way reflects a weapon used prior to the mid 1700s. A period in which the long sword, cut & thrust, halberds, etc had long fell out of warfare. George silver ranked weapons, it went something like hookbill/halberd, longsword, sword & shield, sword & dagger, and so on. Right honorable.

[@SuperSpells]

I will do my best to answer your questions, the reason they fight like that is to play to the weapons strengths. Seeing as a rapier is a thrusting weapon, the style is optimized for quick and successive thrusts to strike at an opponent's vitals. ie, heart, lungs, stomach, throat, liver, kidneys, ect. Tapping an opponent's blade would normally distract an inexperienced opponent due to the noise. It also partially deflects their blade or strike away from you, allowing the rapier to glide along their blade quickly while using your mass to further take control of their sword by stepping forward. Also since a rapier is so thin and fast you can get in and out before an opponent realizes they've been hit. Waiting for an attack is generally a personal choice, but the main idea is that a rapier is not a weapon you can be very aggressive with, at least not without a lot of planning first. You can't clash with their sword directly because the rapier could break. It's a tactical weapon, one that is quick and precise, it gives it the ability to take advantage of small openings. It's more about capitalizing on an opponents weaknesses, either in their strikes or stance. As someone else stated, this is also sports fencing, and while still lethal, not a perfect representation of historical fighting. If you went back and saw historical fighting, you'd see that the rapier, especially in combination with a buckler, was very lethal. It just took a particular person to use it, you had to play as much to the weapons strengths as it played to yours.

[@adventchild5150]

Because it's an art?

[@VictorLepanto]

My money is on the fencer, as a general principle. The reason this manner of fight became standard in Europe is b/c holding a sword w/ a single hand keeps your body further back from your opponent. Holding your weapon w/ both hands makes more of your body exposed for attack.

[@speedyfireman]

this is not a battle of weapons it is a battle of styles.

[@corneliusscipio777]

At the end XVI Century, the "Tercios" of Spanish Empire fought against Japanese Samurai. 40 spanish using "Verdadera Destreza" against 1000 Ronin (Samurai without Lord). Spanish won and showed that Spanish Fencing is better than Samurai Katana fencing. Anyway, good video

[@Tramseskumbanan]

Cornelius Scipio It’s not only due to fencing skills but also in tactics and training at fighting in formation. Numerous of examples from the Roman legionnaires to the caroleans prove that.

[@blackbeltryan3522]

next fight: fencing vs eskrima

[@icarusunder1115]

my take, japanese sword fighting is akin to old eurpean style, which predated the back swords/sabre/rapier. The newer sword design made for a new style of fighting that was designed specifically to defeat the old style. Much love for the japanese style, but if blood was being drawn, I'd bet on the sabre/back sword/rapier.

[@nicbentulan]

syrio forel vs the mountain?

[@moonasha]

modern fencing is a sport, yes, but it evolved from actual combat. Rapiers are the pinnacle of sword evolution. They combine reach and speed, and destroy pretty much every other sword. It's written in history, when Europeans and Japanese clashed, the main gauche + rapier style sword annihilated them.

[@moonasha]

cool to watch. Wouldn't be much of a contest though if it were a real duel, rapiers more or less destroy any other sword in one on one combat. That's what you get with centuries of evolution. Although I'd be interested in seeing how they held up against scutum type shields + swords

[@bucephalus1257]

Potentially interesting to watch, but the degree of potato-camera is just too high

[@Bunndog]

I love both , I love kendo much more

[@Elphelt-g9h]

Lets look at the advantages of both sides... You could say the fencer has a bit more reach (with the way the sword is held) and maybe (emphasis on maybe) has more speed. However the ken do sword (not sure of actual term) is thicker that the rapier (fencing sword) I am not sure of how tough the ken do sword is but from what I can tell, the ken do sword is much stronger than the rapier, therefore can parry much easier. Ken do is much more aggressive and focuses on close range, while fencing is more of mid range mostly, but if the ken do user gets close then they can be deadly. I'd say this is a relatively fair fight (plus it looks really fun)

[@lazzixx]

Kendo sword= shinai

[@rhyzvanic3660]

I really like how both of the fighting styles interacted. The fencer was more dfensive yet the most persistent. And the Kendo fighter was really unphased, and took on super aggressive stances when it suited him. Very interesting duel to see!

[@kolymsky861]

Guts vs Griffith

[@doctorfredbear4767]

the ting i iv wanted to see!:)

[@뭐요-g5p]

Kendo wins

[@juandelacruzv3722]

I like how the Fencing guy fights like Count Dooku

[@13Kr4zYAzN13]

You know his style was based on fencing, right? Lol

[@nicbentulan]

over a decade ago. wow.

[@mortlachstudio]

I think bruce lee adopted footwork from fencing

[@mitsunariartorias6612]

Here is a detailed motion to between a katana sword and a Rapier. Sorry to those who enjoy Fencing but in reality kendo upon a real battle field would prove to be the winner of the fight. For one the I've studied the rapiers contain that they are wielded for faster motion upon thrusting action then slicing like a katana does. A experienced Fencer would never be able to beat a kendo master for one reason. The difference in strength of their swords. A rapier is made to balance out the fencer to use for one hand while this might prove an advantage upon speed but Kendo is also due to it's one sharp edge that makes it capable to go in faster speeds also though rapier would be faster due to it light weight. Now here is the part where is gets more bad....A rapier's weapon is TOO thin against a katana's sharp edge and will break the rapier quickly. Because of the sword smiths in japan are detailed in their weapons it makes the katana both long and balanced also a sharp edge that can slice bones off. Speed is key but the wielder of weapon's is also vital to the survivor of a true historical death match. Katana can even out the speed of a simple rapier because the force of two hands holding the blade in faster motion. while in kendo the person is in a defensive stance along in a attacking one. the sword of a Shinai is balanced for easy blocking with the hilt of their sword but also the blade. while a rapier stance is in a attacking stance all the time with their blade out all the time. The video and seeing the blocking of a rapier was good but if with a real weapon the man would have had his face sliced in two and the match would end. The rapier was too thin and I'd say that Shinai would have probably break the thing considering how thin it is. Even is the rapier were able to deflect the attack that metal would have bended and break or in a real sword fight, it would be cut like butter. In reality the Samurai would prove to stand as the winner for both dense armor they wear and skill of using a two handed weapon that can be used for one handed also. While the fencer capability will stand little due to their thin blade. He will lose his sword before he can land a hit and the defense of a kendo master is able to take in blows from other kendo swords while with a rapier it would be sliced in half thus the fencer will lose the fight before it even started. Not trying to burst anyone's bubble but if you take in the stats and armors but most of all the weapon type and skill level of both fighters. Kendo will prove to be better. Landing a hit to the face won't do much against armor that can deflect pointed tips of weapons. Kendo is pretty much the winner....due to it's long history of fighting and experience. Rapiers are effective by people not wearing armor but match a blade with a katana, that Rapier will turn into sliced metal shavings on the ground and then the person will be defeated without using much skill within a fight. Sorry if I offended people who enjoy Fencing...but it's the truth upon detailed fighting I've seen with sword fighters but also the skill and weapons they use.

[@chrisallistar8007]

real fencing swords from the european dynasties were not flexible at all.They didn't become that way until many hundreds of years later to the sport we see today.The kitana averages 41 inches in length and being that its made with bi-metalic properties since its very begining it's safe to say the kitana is a better weapon.The styles of combat are completely the same with only small formallities being the difference.

[@XeritheCrow]

Oh... my... god... how immature are you people? All you're doing is hating on each other, calling people names, and saying things that could get you in serious trouble anywhere else but the internet. I don't get why you people brought up the subject of race. It only sets people sensitive to race into a fit of rage, bringing even more hate. This awesome video shouldn't be polluted with immature, insulting comments like yours. I dare one of the haters here to reply hatefully and prove my point.

[@qutini]

Japanese smiths were able to compensate for this through careful smelting, but high-quality steel was very expensive. This led to one area in which katana historically truly have excelled: craftsmanship. I have said nothing bad or insulting against the Japanese smiths of history, they were masterfull. due to the lack of steel in Japan they needed a very good smith to make a very good sword, while in europe there were plenty enough to not need a very good smith. I can give u that the Katana +...

[@WilliamKeloren]

Well but in actuall battles you have to keep in mind how armies differ. In Asia cavalry history is rich and was even more common, and rapiers are pretty much useless if your army is mounted only or mostly. European armies were different and had more footsoldiers... So in 1v1 actual battle it would probably means it would cavalry battle to make it fair and than it would be Sabre and not rapier... but most likely it would have been mace. And obviously anyone with any shield would win as well.

[@Celebrithil]

The "mostly leather armor" you're talking about was an iron lamellar armour, and Kenjutsu teaches to avoid it, because the katana would not be able to go through. Are perhaps thinking about how the longsword rather than the rapier is used against armour? A rapier is more a civilian weapon, from an age where mail wasn't so popular anymore. But anyway, yes, these weren't designed to fight each other. :)

[@GismoTerminator]

a pike vs a glock hmmmmmmmmmm a katana was made to slash through the mostly leather armor, sabers were made to elongate the cut length in a time were most combatants had non armored arms rapiers were made to pierce chainmail/go between small armor openings every weapon is developed for a sole purpose, to overcome the defence of the enemy it is rather luck/ a very skillfull user to win with a weapon/skillset that wasnt developed for this particular enemy

[@Celebrithil]

Of course, but then no sword is perfect. Context is also important; a katana will typically be used against Japanese armour, which has more openings and gaps than plate, so you don't really need half-swording against it - simply aiming for the right parts can be enough. The longsword is actually my personal favourite, but the comparison here was between a rapier or smallsword and a katana, so only the "samurai" would be wearing armour. And I'd take a pollaxe against plate armour any day! :P

[@Gaspard129]

To be perfectly honest, as far as a sword for combat goes, the Katana is far from perfect. A two-handed longsword, having a good point, two edges, and having a more flexible blade would be more versatile and useful in armored combat. This is evidenced by the plethora of semi-grappling techniques using the longsword in the half-sword position, or the Mordhau technique, where the sword is inverted during grappling to deliver blow using the hilt as a hammer. Its very fascinating.

[@FencerHU]

William, a) this little experiment is specifically designed for katana fanboys, not for fencers who are fully aware of the limitations of their swords, b) the emphasis was on the equal level of fencing skills, without any additional things: punches, throws etc. Those additional cm-s give you a big advantage (katana blade: 60-70 cm, sabre: 80-85+ cm), c) no, katana vs sabre with a shell guard, or vs longsword, or vs Swiss sabre ;-)

[@WilliamKeloren]

Well i tried most of these back in the days..... a) is ridiculous thing to even try and i never actually did b) well it depends on whenever the one with lower reach can use both arms to grip, pull, punch as well as his legs to trip him... if yes than it is quite fun actually and results are quite inconsistent depending a lot on speed c) You mean like a buckler? If yes, than what there is to talk about really? Especially with the rules above also possible. Or you mean like the part on the hilt?

[@WilliamKeloren]

Good god, can you guys stop? You all talk like it was reasonable to use any of these techniques in actuall battle. Well it wasn't. There is no guard so any projectiles, spears, halberds etc would kill you before you could do any harm. Both of them are dueling techniques also aimed for training you body and mind. Pretty same as Messer. The result of duel is more about comparing two individual's skill and body build.

[@FencerHU]

J. Zanelli, In Hungary we have only 1 kendo organization & it is rather reputable one, not known for awarding "mail order black belts". The kendoka was 3rd dan in '09, later 4th. So I would be very surprised to learn from competent guys that his footwork, kamae are appalling. Also kiai is just an attribute needed to get a point during competitions, but in our context was unnecessary. You will not distract an experienced fencer with kiais, just annoy a little bit. BTW what is your kendo rank?

[@FencerHU]

Regarding katana vs sabre. Just try to carry out a few practical (!) experiments. a) chatter, cut a cheap machete with your katana, b) find a fencing partner of equal skill level & give him a longer (10-20 cm) training weapon, have a few bouts, change weapons, spar again, c) with the same partner, again unmatched weapon: one has good hand protection, another without it, spar, It would be extremely interesting to read summaries on the above little experiments. ;-)

[@Mandalorianjedi]

A katana was rarely ever more than one kg. They ranged from 500g to 1000g (depends on the maker). I hate explaining this over and over, but there is an ancient katana "quick-kill" technique known as a "small men" which demonstrates a fine example of mixing speed, power and control based on momentum from the wrists and not slowed down from the arms. Search "BU Kendo - Small Men Strike" to see a sensei try to give the basics of it.

[@Mandalorianjedi]

You cannot judge a martial art from a book written in the 1400s. Most people assume they swing with both hands equally, but it is mostly dominate to the left (holding the very end for more control and momentum). Search "BU Kendo - Small Men Strike" Same technique was used in kenjutsu as a quick kill-shot. One can argue that a katana weighs more (only by 1 - 1.5 pounds) so it's different, but it's momentum from the wrists that's used to make the speed and power, not brute strength from the arms.

[@mercedescl]

"Prove it"? Lol. Rapier fighting style existed in the 16th century while Kendo was a modern development after Meji era had abolished both the samurai caste and the katana from Japanese society. Stabbing is superior than hacking because you use the tip of the blade to kill instead of cutting your lethal attack range in half. In the real world, longer weapons always have an advantage.

[@FencerHU]

Yes, Olympic sabre fencing got rid of all artistic attributes etc, but also of all martial effectiveness too. Some modern "cuts" are simply jokes. Yes, it is fast as a bullet, mainly due to lightness of the "weapon", but efficient only in playing modern tag game, and absolutely not practical. You can find absolutely nonsense modern "cuts" with the flat of the blade, taught in Gerevich-Szepesy's book (1979).

[@FencerHU]

Drysabre, It is funny to see people playing Sherlock Holmes on YT. You said that another guy is just a "disguised" kendoka who pretends to be a fencer. No, that guy is just a total beginner - self-taught - sabre fencer, with 20+ lessons behind his belt. This was explained several times in this thread. His partner is a 3rd dan kendoka, with 7-8+ years of training. BTW, it seems your link doesn't work: /watch?v=ST1wRzfgmI On the other hand your assessment is correct, with a few caveats.

[@drysabre]

Continue: it is not who has a better weapon. It is about efficiency. I can tell you that Kendo won't do anything against line, stop cut to the wrist. I am not even mentioning second intention actions - this will simply put Kendo guy on a floor event before he'll put his stick up. Just for you to understand - for a fencer, normal reaction to the arm moving up is a contratac. Period. Ten times hit to the arm before land his stick, and then it will be parry and ripost. In my humble opinion.

[@drysabre]

Modern (Olympic) fencing, even being a pretty much artificial branch of dueling, has ben refined and get rid of all artistic attributes and mythology. It is efficient, fast like a bullet and practical. Sabre blade moves in range faster then kendo stick - no doubt. Simply because it is controlled by fingers and wrist, and cut is performed without any swings and waking. This saves time. I am not even talking about footwork - there is nothing to discuss. Kendo footwork is just a joke.

[@Meganaronminombre]

Fencing should win in a one to one fight I think. But not like "he is a fencer so he is sure to win". Its more like "he has a better weapon for a 1vs1 fight so he has a better chance". Still if you check kendo videos their slashes are in milliseconds (same with fencing videos). No matter how much of a great fencer or kendo practitioner you are, if you are facing someone who strikes that fast and he makes you rush your attack you are pretty much done. What do you think? Just my humble opinion.

[@TOGSolid]

That documentary was standard tv crap that provided little quality information. Do some actual research and you'll see that the metal available back then was shit tier garbage which was why their forging process is what it is. They had to work twice as hard just to get their metal up to a decent grade. Even more laughable is how it plays up things that aren't uncommon in making weaponry. Hell, I have a viking style sword made with two different hardness ratings.

[@FencerHU]

Celebrithil, Railriderchris & Railstarfish, It is always a pleasure to deal with intelligent people. Sapienti sat. Regarding "poking" with an European sword. I wouldn't want to be poked with this one: ht*tp:/*/img819.imageshack.us/img819/1268/3svv.jpg A beautiful Swiss sabre from the 16(?) century: 93 cm blade, 34 cm sharpened back edge (jelman), COB 14-15 cm from the crossguard, weight: 1.5 kg.