What did Motobu think of Kumite? - kenfuTV S4E44

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[@TomOKelly-he5js]

Nice commentary, thank you. I think also there is the distinction of Karate originally being designed for dealing with violence and those habitualized to violence as opposed to a consensual fight. Motobu has been quoted several times on making that distinction so here it seems his take on Kumite is preparing "you" for that situation in the most realistic simulation that can be created.

[@Shaolinkempotc]

Never heard of Motobu Sensei and Funakoshi sensei getting along!

[@Shaolinkempotc]

My style has been called “telephone booth boxing”…I guess now small changing stall would be more recognizable lol. When I teach I often tell the students they need to be close enough to “show the love”…love is not a far away thing. Love your sharing. Thank you!

[@zeno_aratus]

thanks that explains the disconnect between kata and our kumite of today - I had always wondered about that. So just for clarification we can say that when motobu spoke about kumite it was full contact no holds barred? definitely sounds like it based on how serious he takes it

[@kenfutv]

That’s certainly my interpretation of what he’s saying.

[@FinGoju]

​@@kenfutvI was recently taught that the steps would be:kata, basic bunkai, advanced bunkai, kumite. Obvious when you think about it, but not so obvious when you try to do it 😅.

[@jonahakivahbenavraham]

Cool vid, thanks.

[@bripowered]

Great info. Thank you for sharing this.

[@deathspawn54]

True traditional Okinawan karate still do grappling, a lot of the sport karate places started copying tkd with big flashy kicks for points. I find the "best way to train is start with basics, then kata, then bunkai, then slightly structured kumite, and then finally free kumite

[@Yamaki-Karate]

I’ve been training naihanchi for over a decade and I’m still finding different ways to apply the kata.

[@MrRourk]

Grappling is coming back look at Enshin Karate and American Kenpo 5.0.

[@bashlivingstonstampededojo882]

Great explanation of kata love the channel I'm subscribed

[@johnreidy2804]

Kata is truly worthless

[@bashlivingstonstampededojo882]

@@johnreidy2804 that's a matter of opinion truthfully though you don't need kata too learn how to fight or defend yourself is traditionalists we use it as a training tool going over the underlining principles and concepts of combat then break the form down into practical drills

[@johnreidy2804]

@@bashlivingstonstampededojo882 I'm a 4th dan in Goju and fully understand every aspect of Kata. I do them begrudgingly because I know how worthless they are. As you say you don't need Kata to learn how to fight. But, beyond that how much more time could we spend getting better at fighting and self-defense moves if Kata were eliminated? How many hours I've practiced all of my Kata's when I could have been improving my cardio by say running, or punch timing with a a partner, or any number of worthwhile things for self improvement. When I began my journey in Karate I was only 19 year sold and fresh off the wrestling team in HS. I knew they were worthless 20 years ago and I know they are worthless now. Be well my friend

[@bashlivingstonstampededojo882]

@@johnreidy2804 there are other aspects of kata as well I still enjoy the movements I still enjoy the deep breathing exercises that it gives you some people do it for cultural purposes and reasons which is still pretty cool in itself just my take on forms

[@johnreidy2804]

@@bashlivingstonstampededojo882 Sure, everyone is different. Some like the cultural aspects. To me it is a total waste of time. If I could eliminate Kata from Goju I'd do it in a heart beat. Glad you're training though Don't ever stop Be well

[@ChristianRomanelli]

Ken , where did you read that, Motobu Sensei invited Funakoshi Sensei to teach Karate ? Is my understanding they dislike each other.

[@jasonloree4676]

At 10:30, what style or approach is Kevin doing Naihanchi/Tekki? I have been studying Naihanchi from different styles and perspectives for a few years, and this is different enough that I am very intrigued. Reminds me of an Indonesian variation that was taught to me, but still very different.

[@kenfutv]

That was what he called the ‘timing version’ that he was taught in his Okinawa Kenpo lineage.

[@jasonloree4676]

@@kenfutv looks like i have some more work to do.

[@ryukyu-kenpo]

​@@kenfutv He was NOT taught it. He made it up. He never taught the made up version to Geraldi, Wiswell, Logue, Lindquist, or me. Geraldi even had a group of people that he certified knew the original non-made up versions of Nakamura's kata. We all knew that he made them up to make money. That's it.

[@ryukyu-kenpo]

Oyata did not translate the book. Mrs. Wagner did. And, Motobu, Choki HATED Funakoshi with a passion. He never would have invited him to do anything except seppuku. I was given the fifth book handed out by Oyata. You are correct that everybody's 'style' is their own and systems are only training platforms.

[@erlangga59]

The Motobu vs Funakoshi story does not seem wholly true becasue there is a photogrqph of both sitting side by side each otjer in the centre surrounded by other budokas. No signs of enmity in the pboto,but of respect.

[@ryukyu-kenpo]

​@@erlangga59 To do otherwise in public would bring shame to Motobu. Japanese customs and culture, especially in those times is not the American trash culture of today. Showing hostility would have backed up Funakoshi's claims that Motobu was an ignorant backwater redneck. Motobu went back and forth to Okinawa. Funakoshi never.

[@SonnyCrocket-p6h]

it is extremely dangerous to let any aggressor get closer than front leg kicking distance, at hip height. By the time he gets that close, you should already have kicked his shin/knee with your rear leg (standing sideways) point your front leg's toes at your opponent, so that you can pivot easily in either clockwise or the reverse movement. I always seek to strike and get out of arm's reach, unless my strike has hurt him or driven him backwards and off balance. If such is the case, I will continue to strike with my hands, if we remain that close together. However, covering up with your fists and forearms and kicking at his knees/shins from out of arms reach is MUCH safer, IF you are a truly skilled kicker. Avoid kicking with the top of the foot or the shin, folks. strike with the edges or ball of the foot, so that you do much more damage without having to commit bodyweight to the kick.

[@ravendon]

Motobu beat Funakoshi in front of Funakoshi's students.

[@Yoandrys23]

Let's pronounce Karate with inflection but not every other Japanese word 😂😂😂

[@Billy14Bob]

A lot of this applies when coming out of the closet

[@chriswheeler6838]

Do you have a link to purchase the book?

[@kenfutv]

I don't for this exact edition. This one was a gift and I'm not seeing it available for general purpose. Here is a link to another translation of this book that's worth looking at: amzn.to/43xGHlA

[@epramberg]

WKF, JKA, and JKF kumite methods are not good for growth. You are too careful with your words. I do not have a problem with organized sparring, but the current school of selective contact, selective takedowns, and random rules in sparring needs to stop. It teaches students to fight wrong through massive confusion. There are no penetrating strikes (except for random times when there are penetrating strikes), which changes how students defend. Guessing which takedowns are acceptable and which are not is best done with a pair of dice. Worst of all, students stop fighting once they score a point. I understand that the normal response is, "teach classical karate and competition karate separately." Why on Earth are we teaching students to fight two separate ways? There is already enough confusion! To further blaspheme, I am going to say the quiet part out loud; karate techniques do not work in modern kumite. Early 1800's savate works great in modern kumite, but karate? Not so much. Savate practitioners, of course, had the sense to change their sparring and become legitimate kickboxing. Competition karate organizations, on the other hand, have shown their willingness to let the art decay. MMA did us all a favor. It gave us updated sparring methods. If we have any sense whatsoever, we will take the gift that we have been given and use it. Laymen make fun of current kumite because even they can see that it is ridiculous. It is time to change.