Damage calculation guide - 165% doesn't mean 165% | Warframe

[@podokonnik1796]

I wish all of those hidden stats were actually shown in the game UI, so I wouldn't have to keep all of this in the back of my head when coming up with builds. Thanks for the guide BTW, and while I already knew most of that, I still found it very useful, since I think it's one of the only videos on this topic that is so well-structured and on the point.

[@635574]

But for every you there's a 20 noobs that look at the stats and think this is too complex. Its not that hard just to add the falloff stat for shotguns FFS, its all I'm missing.

[@lordderppington4694]

@@635574 Then throw in a dropdown menu or something. but just.... not having the information is horrible game design

[@Joshg-23]

so how exactly do noobs grasp this knowledge?

[@lordderppington4694]

@@Joshg-23 I don't quite understand the question. If you are just someone who doesn't care about stats or builds and just wants to be a space ninja who jumps around and tbags grineer they will literally just ignore the stats. If they are a noob who genuinly wants to learn about how to get better at this game they will take the time to learm the stats, maybe join a clan and get some help being walked through how it all works, and if you are someone who has taken the time to fully understand and learn the game, having hidden stats like this shown is invaluable for understanding how certain things are calculated and what's best for the build. But if the stats are never shown no one benefits. The best you can do is soend a few hours in simulacrum testing damage numbers and hope everything matches up (and even if it does some jackass on the internet will tell you they tested it and things don't work like that) There is literally no way a system like that isn't possitive.

[@Joshg-23]

@@lordderppington4694 I guess that is pretty valid

[@zarodgaming1844]

These are the videos that the tennos were watching during combat training after the Ten-0 incident

[@Marco_-vz2jl]

Oooh would be a nice way to call a series for newbies, ten-0 combat training

[@porpfi9197]

The Ten-0 incident TrollDespair

[@kameroncole5566]

When the math test comes around

[@XxHybridFreakxX]

I love how the Division 2 differentiated between additive and multiplicative damage bonuses. Additive bonuses were worded as normal damage bonuses +X damage and multiplicative ones used the wording of amplifies damage by +X%. Would be nice to see DE incorporate something like this for Warframe.

[@patricksteinsen1147]

"the floor isn't made out of floor" "did you think killing me would make me die" "just because you're correct doesn't mean you're right"

[@jayandrews4807]

Dqmniti recognised 2 of those

[@Sal-fg3rs]

I mean Acolytes have proven the first to be true. I've fallen out of the map, RJ map, and the Acolytes as well.

[@jayandrews4807]

@@Sal-fg3rs I had an acolyte underwater on Uranus literally 10 minutes ago

[@Sal-fg3rs]

@@jayandrews4807 I had one do that and he kept teleporting me back. I didn't have my leveled Archgun on. So it did laughable damage to him and I couldn't get life support.

[@jayandrews4807]

@@Sal-fg3rs luckily mine was a capture

[@DragonxFlutter]

I'm gonna be honest. I think I would need the to be an entire series that explains each individual point in a video, and provides some examples. And even then, I'd need to do it in the game as I hear the commentary, because I'm such a hands-on learner.

[@tomd96]

Wouldn't that make you an audio learner though. Or audio/visual.

[@DragonxFlutter]

@@tomd96 My ideal situation would be someone physically next to me and guiding my hands until I got the hang of it. In absence of that, audio that breaks things down to their most basic is good enough.

[@blakemerrithew9162]

@@tomd96 all that people learn difrent ways and are audio or visual learners is all bullshit. It's all made up no evidence supports it.

[@mitchgunzler3737]

@@tomd96 It turns out the audio/visual/tactile learner stuff was not supportsd by follow up studies. It’s probably got some kernel of fact, but by and large it is far too easy to exaggerate how big an impact sensory modes play in learning.

[@LifesGuardian]

Thank you! Damage calculation has always been a mystery to me. This really breaks it down and shows me how it's made. I really appreciate it!

[@HeatInherit]

very well explained, rarely we have content creator going in-depth with calculation or mechanic it surely helps player to have a more optimized loadout by understanding the game better love the video and also thanks for the credit :)

[@grimmjowjaggerjack3316]

Do you guys have a calc file to share ? I tried to make one with all formulas from the wiki but I miss some links to combine them all

[@andreslm8610]

@@grimmjowjaggerjack3316 did you do it? :0 i'm starting on this and would be useful to understand more the calcs

[@grimmjowjaggerjack3316]

@@andreslm8610 I have everything ready, what I miss is a person capable of developing a tool to create loops and codes. I am not a dev, but when I calculate everything manually it works

[@Surxe]

Im very glad somebody has illustrated this quite well. I always find it difficult to explain “diminishing returns” to newer players, and even veterans. Especially since there technically isnt diminishing returns, its just the shorthand we use to mean “165% is actually less than 165%”

[@TheXFalzar]

9:33 there actually is a source of universal faction damage, it's rhino's roar. Regardless, great video

[@athitnithisakulpat2812]

Empowered Blade aura mod is kinda-ish since it being a 60% faction nod for heavy attacking.

[@635574]

And all of the damn effect use just another +XX% because DE don't have standards.

[@carlcapossere4903]

You spelled Eclipse wrong.

[@XCanG]

Just a reminder what one ability have actual faction damage for other faction: it is Baruuk 4 with augment Reactive Storm

[@635574]

@@XCanG that is supposed to only alter that base impact damage for the enemy weakness. There is no mention on wiki that it works like a faction mod

[@mindless-gaming336]

I definitely need a full course from you in how this stuff works, I feel like your videos help me understand the game better by a long shot. Can’t wait for more!

[@ignessrilians]

This guide is awesome! Also you have such cool voice and accent , it's so easy listening to you for hours

[@jamess9981]

What a wonderful guide. Thank you for this. Modding has always been daunting for me because I didn't know the why of anything regarding damage calculations in modding guides. This video has done a wondrous job explaining damage calculations and I feel much more confident in my modding. You're a fantastic creator

[@AmalgamJiena]

Heyhey, im here within 10 minutes! I love your voice and i love this game. I had no idea that stacking pure damage mods make them less effective

[@mikoasprophesied6543]

I only liked this because 0:06 Awesome usage of the naming system lol.

[@depressed_dann_]

At this point, you need a phd to play this game lmao

[@LyteRetro]

I have my masters degree in warframe history

[@paulamblard3836]

As long as you don't try to understand the damage quantization (that have a negligible effect on dps), it is fine. you just have to know that there is different group of damage bonus ; the damage bonus of the same group are additive, and each group is multiplicative with the other group. ( 12:08 for the main list of them )

[@someaccount3438]

@@paulamblard3836 Quantization isn't actually that hard to understand at all, however as you said the impact it has is incredibly minimal. I do wonder why they coded it like that though. I assume it probably wasn't something they intended but that it just kind of came about.

[@lagartopunkarra]

It's not that hard if you don't look at the details. Just remember: bigger numbers = bigger dakka

[@Teixas666]

tbf for most practical terms you dont need to know any of this for practicla purposes at most you just target weaknesses. its only when you try to sweat that last bit of extra dps when this matters.

[@dudder2008]

Well as usual yet another super informative and easy to understand video. I'm just here to thank you for your awesome content and leave a comment for the algorithm

[@SmiledElf]

Okay. This is hands down the best explanation I've seen on weapon damage. THANK YOU!

[@justinross165]

What a great video. I understood what people were saying in forums but putting names to the equation has allowed me to actually calculate. thank you

[@kevinzapata4791]

Wow you really explained this thing so well especially the part regarding additive damage. This should clear it up for a lot of people. Cheers!

[@adaevenburton]

3:10 I'll explain the additive example with the Kohm in detail. Kohm: 100% = 1 Serration: 165% = 1.65 Total: 265% = 2.65 Don't lose me here! 265% is the new "starting value" this becomes important later once we factor in Heavy Caliber. Kohm: 100% = 1 Serration: 165% = 1.65 Heavy Caliber: 165% = 1.65 100% + 165% + 165% ---------------------------------------------- New Total: 430% or 4.3 ---------------------------------------------- Now this is where we pay attention. The new "starting value" is no longer 100%. It's 265% with the added serration. Now what we want to find is the "new percent change" (265%) from the final value (430%). Equation: (Final - Starting Value) / Starting Value x 100 Side note - we times 100 because we have to convert the decimal to back into a percentage! Answer: (430% - 265%) / 265% x 100 = 165% / 265% x 100 = 0.622642 x 100 = 62.2642 % = 62.3 % to be exact! It's 62% either way and this was just an explanation to what he was saying!

[@simonsoupshark8009]

took me a few minutes to work out exactly what you meant near the beginning but over all a good comprehensive guide thank you very much

[@christoflimet9871]

315h in game,i thought i was doing ok, then i watch the kengeneer..yep completly redo every weapon build:p thx man, i hate that...but THX for the video i do love your vids like this!! don't stop, i am here to learn!

[@swaggboiii9528]

I gotta say; your videos are actually the most informative pool of rescources on youtube. Great job!

[@Hurric4ne_]

11:55 "more than one shot per shot" reminded me of the Portal 2 Video phrase "thats 65% more bullet, per bullet" :D

[@TheKengineer]

I imagine Cave Johnson and Ballas would have got along very well.

[@TheArcSet]

Thanks for this video. You conveyed a rather convoluted subject in one of the clearest ways I've seen.

[@andrewstambaugh8030]

I think this is the clearest explanation I've seen. I'm in the lategame crossover, and I've been looking for guides that get into a little more nuance to get squeeze that last bit of damage out of my weapons. People tend to refer to *"elemental damage"*, which makes sense when we are thinking of resistances. But I think the community should shift terminology to refer to the *category* as *"proc-able damage"*, which matches the equation for calculating damage: *It better implies how elemental mods and ips mods are in the same additive category (hence not multiplying their damage) *How ips is helped in the same way that elemental mods are helped. *that they are also all in the category of things that proc, and so are actively shifting the balance of what proc you will randomly get

[@notthemaster763]

i haven't finished this yet but i'm really excitied about learning this, what i've seen so far already helps

[@JesseBrockwell]

Frigging sick thank you so much for putting this together so well

[@georgiaguardian4696]

Great and clear guide! You are my no. 1 Source for these technical guides for Warframe!

[@mutazalmatani162]

even thou i know already about diminshing returns, thanks alot for making this video, it will clearly help alot of players

[@mitchgunzler3737]

It’s really about *diversifying* returns. Once you have increased a category of damage, it is more efficient to increase a second category and then a third category as evenly as possible instead of letting the same amount of bonus pile up in one category.

[@hrpang]

Would be cool is someone actually made a calculator of some kind to show the actual possible damage output. Unless that already exists, I and I think many people would love the link for it.

[@Marcos_P_F]

Pretty sure there is a build calculator. Never used it. But had been told to do so

[@09Dragonite]

The site I used to use hasn't updated in a while and since then new Riven systems have dropped so damage calculation could be off by a bit depending on your builds. WF just updates so many things at once that a lot of people don't have the time to keep up with dramatic changes. I'm just glad the wiki is still on top of most things.

[@GewelReal]

make your own

[@lorenzorobertson9561]

This is what we all needed because this actually would make new players do their research, and pick a weapon that helps them through the star chart. I thank you very much and hope you continue to give us more info.

[@zahariusgallicchio]

Honestly, this was stuff I knew but you put it together so well I can't help but be impressed. Quanta's are neat, didn't know about those though

[@Plan3tBob]

omg.. ty. Thank you for putting in the time to make this. subbed.

[@paulamblard3836]

4:40 ; technically, no, even the Ennemis Damage Type Multiplier are additive to something : the Atlas skill Petrify. i don't think that say "some bonus are multiplicative, and some other are additive" is the best way to show the things. the good things to say it : "The bonus of the same type are additive with each other, and all different type of bonus are multiplicative with each other"

[@635574]

Stacking same type is usually the reason something becomes additive%

[@conservativestrawman9837]

That sounds like a way more confusing way to describe it IMO

[@noname8192]

What would be the type of Molecular Prime and Roar buff ?

[@paulamblard3836]

@@noname8192 Molecular prime is also an effect on the ennemis, but it is not linked to the type damage multiplier. I think it is something unique, multiplicative to all other effect. Roar is an effect on the warframe, and is a bonus of antifaction damage (to all faction). (It make that it is extremly strong to increase statuts damage like Slash) with a primed antifaction mod (55%) + Roar (with a certain amount of strength to have 70% bonus), it will sum to be +125% antifaction damage.

[@island_dancer]

Right, thats how I think of it in all games where total damage dealt is a multiplication of factors (like Diablo 3 and Divinity: Original Sin 2). So I first look at what each factor is and give it a classification. i.e. lets say physical/elemental% modifiers = class A factor. crit% modifiers = class B factor. faction% = class C factor. Total damage = A x B x C If you know what class the damage modifier fits into then the order of operations is fairly intuitive. Rhino's Roar is a class C buff so you add roar% and bane mod% together and this makes up your total class C factor. Chroma's Vex Armour is a class A buff. So you add your vex% to serration% to get your total class A factor. Then you multiply all your factors to get the product (your total damage). A weapon has base damage which can either be physical or elemental or both. If its physical, it is usually split between Impact/Puncture/Slash. Adding them all up gives you your base physical damage. For example, if you have a weapon that does 30 Impact/30 puncture/40 slash, your base physical damage = 30 + 30 + 40 = 100. If you then add a 90% toxin elemental mod it takes 90% of the base damage (or 90 damage) and adds it as toxin. So now your weapon does 190 damage. 100 physical and 90 toxin. Now if you add Serration, you multiply your modded base damage by class A. That is, 190 x (1 + 1.65) = 503.5 damage. If you then add a primed bane mod (+55% vs grineer), you multiply your modded base damage by class A x class C to get your total damage vs grineer, which in this case is 503.5 x (1 + 0.55) = 780.425. Or you can rewrite that as 190 x 2.65 x 1.55 = 780.425 Damage in Warframe is quantized and in the character sheet its rounded down to the nearest whole number so its a bit more complicated than that but hopefully the general idea comes across. Where it gets confusing is how mods and abilities say they give a damage bonus, but its not always clear what class it fits into. Roar is a good example because its very un-intuitive to think of Roar's damage bonus as faction% that just happens to work against all factions. But thats how it is. Then you get weird buffs where the tooltips don't update to reflect the actual damage bonus you are getting, or what class it fits into, like Eclipse. And then it gets super confusing when you include things like status effect damage over time and some abilities like Toxic Lash that create new instances of damage based on the final product, resulting in unintuitive things like bane mod buffs being used 3 times - once to get the product that toxic lash spins off into a separate instance of toxin damage, again for the direct toxin damage of this new instance and a third time for the status effect DoT that is procced by this new instance. So thats why you can read Toxic Lash's description and reasonably think "that sounds underwhelming" only to find out that when you press 3 and shoot, its totally busted. And thats before we even get into the weird damage reduction mechanics like in Lephantis, Kuva Liches and Eidolons where certain weapons hit some mysterious limiter that is not explained at all and nerds have to reverse engineer damage calculation from the product, which is a bunch of quantised tooltip numbers (that sometimes lie!)

[@Oaken_Buckets]

A very easy to follow video on a very complex topic, well done :)

[@MuggsisGune]

Thank you. I'm relearning the game after this latest damage rebalance, and I'd been looking for a concise breakdown of the weapon damage math. I'm realizing how spoiled I was during the melee meta. I only knew about half of this and used the same mods on almost every weapon.

[@hervesv9529]

Quality content. Well explained. Hats off to you, I feel like I always leave impressed after watching one of your videos

[@likethatidea9899]

So I am a "vet" at Warframe having played for about 3000 hours. I know some of this stuff theoretically but never fully understood it, mainly since I can´t be bothered to. I still have no idea how to properly mod and usually just slap on the base damage mods like a pleb. Again, theoretically, this video helped me, but since I´m also not a native in english it´s even harder for me to focus on understanding what you said. I hate and love how intricate Warframes calc is. Great video!

[@se7399]

We need more of this kind of content. Nice work!

[@Tyler-hq5cl]

Bro your stuff saves me, keep it up.

[@Jab_hutt]

Understood or so I thought, but finally understood that I didn't understood what I understood. Tried this multiplicative approach, so added mod from each category, instead of additive. Initially got less Total damage shown than I had, while following the build, which used additive damage a bit more (so it seemed). GG

[@tama4209]

Thanks, this will be a great resource for explaining diminishing returns/proper modding theory to newer players :D

[@footman005]

Thanx man, very good & informative vid answering alot of questions i had 🙂 kudos to you!

[@Papperogrande]

Great video! You've managed to make something painfully complicated appear relatively simple.

[@rickfernandez4711]

Damage is warframe is a very complicated thing for me, with the same weapon I can do from 2k to 37k dmg with no mods equipped or buffs. That always makes me wonder

[@discipleoftzeentch8384]

status procs, like viral, damage types vs enemy resistances and vulnerabilities, enemy armor value is DR to their health, certain enemies just outright take less damage the first viral proc doubles 2k to 4k, the next 8 double it again to 8k, hitting an enemy thats mostly resistant to your damage (say, a telos boltor with corrosive vs a corpus tech's proto shield) can half the damage you deal, no longer dealing halved damage is effectively doubling, you're now on 16k, an enemy thats weak to your damage usually takes about +50% more, but i just dont remember any convenient enemies to cite by name here, so i wont, the range is 25-75, so lets call it 50%, even though they probably arent double weak, or they could be 75% weak to whatever you modded (say viral) and not weak or even resistant to whatever you have by base (like that impact that does less damage to health types) warframe's math is way more complicated than this video, but explaining why some hits are wildly different is messy oh right, i totally forgot about crits and headshots, thats the hugest difference, because headshots multiply damage, and crits multiply damage, and critical headshots multiply crit damage by the headshot damage in addition to multiplying the overall damage, a nukor dealing a bodyshould vs dealing a crit headshot could very well be like, 50-100x damage

[@patrikgrguric535]

I've never actually heard of "absolute" bonuses in my time playing warframe. I've always heard people refer to them as flat bonuses.

[@chaoticgoodboi793]

It is weird, but absolute and flat especially in stats are typically interchangeable. Dragons dogma (if you’ve ever played that.) is a perfect example, with absolute values for attack and defense ratings.

[@frosty-dn6zf]

Such a detailed information. I'm going to share it on my clans discord.

[@JeffAndresWilliams]

This really helps to clear things up, even though I've heard most of it before. Still, I tend to avoid trying to figure out why my weapons don't do that much damage by simply running around as Vauban and throwing nail bombs.

[@nagarebushi]

WoW what a great explanation, Thank you sir for your hard work 💜

[@easy8077]

I love how this only scratches the surface since Fire Rate, Reload, Punch trough, Magazine size also directly impact your DPS... even God damn Recoil can do wonders as I've noticed on my trusty Gorgon. Since I use the recoil reduction of the Incarnon on it, I can't exactly see how much more damage I deal per second, but since I can more reliably do head shots and hit at all on larger range, it must have almost doubled!

[@xxkelel20xx]

Do you have a video going over how to manipulate proc priority for status effects?

[@635574]

Proportions of the actual damage. There are no tricks. There are hidden forced procs on many weapons tho and those usually aren't affected by elementals but just total dmg mods

[@BigJoeBabowski]

@@635574 There are tricks, like how physical damage procs have 4x the chance of other statuses.

[@635574]

@@BigJoeBabowski that was removed multiple years ago. Really the only actual tricks is only relevant to slash because its the only DoT status that only cares about proportion as a chance to trigger and its damage only scales with base damage increasing mods.

[@TheArcSet]

@@BigJoeBabowski That was removed about 3 years ago.

[@MrBigPauly1]

Small detail, abilities that give elemental damage, such as volt's 1 with augment are basically a 9th mod (yes, it goes last but before weapon elemental dmg, so if for example ur weapon has base toxic, you put [primed heated charge] and then press 1, u get radiation + toxic). This is obiously important for eidolon hunts. Since your volt tends to hover around 300% strength, meaning volt's 1 is a 300% electric mod, u only want 1 elemental mod to make electric into radiation to make it more effective against alloy armor and in fact is almost the same dmg a rank 0 [primed heated charge] and maxed, since volt's 1 is twice as strong as [primed heated charge]. Also for eidolon hunts and rivens, i'd reccomend chosing riven base on minimal damage when the weapon has low fire rate, such as rubico or vectis. For example yesterday i was rolling and i was presented with 2 options, one of them was 5% more dmg, but less consistant, while the other got me from 250% multishot (1+150%) to 300% (1+1,5+0,5 from riven), i chose the later even though its less averadge damage, its faster clears, since you are going to be doing (6x2+4)x6 limbs consistency is key.

[@JaccoKCH]

Nice work!

[@LyteRetro]

Got to mr10 and xbox but restarting on pc. Had zero clues about this system thank you!

[@Halbostfriese]

Adaptive scaling, yes please! I really want to get into the details of that.

[@NoorAgafia]

Very helpful, thank you!

[@VantaClawz]

HOWWW DO YOU KNOW THIS STUUUUFFF? This video changes 7 years of me doing it wrong. Holy shyte DE, where is your head? No wonder it's so hard for people to pick this up for the first time! I only stumbled across this post by accident...

[@ThePopeOfAwesomeness]

Interesting. Thisll help me make the MIGHTY SEER even more powerful

[@jashirei7581]

You mean it can get even stronger? I thought that was impossible

[@ThePopeOfAwesomeness]

@@jashirei7581 I know it's scary stuff it just keeps getting better

[@valentincreed5263]

Extremely good video! Thank you! 🙃I'm a new player, so this helps me a lot lol

[@R1oTer]

This is why i try to aim for 100% status on applicable weapons as the different elements give the multiplicative. (If im understanding correctly). Plus theres crit chance AND headshot multiplier. So if you just try to build status/dmg then crit dmg, you wont be hurting as bad instead of going straight cc/cd

[@ShinObix]

fantastic, thank you. My only regret is not watching this sooner

[@Darthmufin]

I would actually like to hear you explain the kuva and tenet weapon system, both in how the valence fusion applies and what is the elemental bonus in terms of how mods effects it or how it affects your damage. People have told me its base damage but it still confuses me because increasing it does not seem to increase base damage like i would expect. Clearing that up for me and others would be helpful.

[@paulamblard3836]

the elemental bonus is additional base damage. if the weapon has 5 impact, 5 slash, and a bonus of 30% toxin : it will be 5 impact, 5 slash, 3 toxin, so 13 base damage. with 55% toxin : it will be 5 impact, 5 slash, 5.5 toxin, so 15.5 base damage. and if you add a mod with "+100% cold damage" to the 30% toxin it will have : 5 impact, 5 slash, 16 viral, so 26 total damage. and to the 55% toxin : 5 impact, 5 slash, 21 viral, so 31 total damage.

[@Shaderox]

i remember getting into the more technical side of WF years ago... a big problem and annoyance was that regardless if the bonus came from mods, abilities or arcanes it's always written as " +???% stat " so you have no idea if that's a flat additive bonus, a multiplicative bonus or if one of these set bonuses so you already either had to make an assumption or do the research. Think crit chance is the most common offender

[@cheesejuice_]

Mods multiply itself. In a nutshell. Awesome I learn so much so fast here

[@morecakesmorelays3270]

Another great video by the chad

[@Jazzimus]

I would actually like to know how some different enemies have damage mitigations except for Armor. Like Demolysts in disruption, eidolons, lichens etc

[@Fyrefrye]

the issue here is that these are all different, almost completely arbitrary, and DE keeps implementing new forms of damage reduction and attenuation that don't follow their previous precedents or "rules"

[@mitchgunzler3737]

Do the faction mods “triple dip,” getting added again to some of the other categories as well (e.g. proc damage). That’s supposedly why they have surprisingly small values compared to elemental or base damage yet are so prized. So a +30% bane of grineer would multiply other damages types to increase modded damage by 30%, but also increase how much of modded damage each slash proc does, effectively multiplying slash damage by 1.3 twice along the way. Which is really multiplying it by (1.3)^2=1.69, so that “+30%” mod increases your proc damage by 69%. I have *not* tested this, so I am asking if anyone has and can confirm that faction damage pops up more than once in the master damage equation. Also, here is a basic result from algebra for people who have never considered it: if the damage you do is the product of A and B and C, and you have multiple slots for mods that can add X total damage spread around those categories, the most efficient way to do it is always to spread the extra as evenly as possible. 200%*200%*200% is a better way to distribute 300% bonus damage than 100%*100%*400% as the video says, but also better than 100%*200%*300% or any other way of trying to divide the extra damage up. (Unless category C is faction damage and gets counted more than once…)

[@chickentendies5215]

wouldnt that be called a double dip?

[@mitchgunzler3737]

@@chickentendies5215 Yup, I outlined a double dip. A triple dip might apply, someone mentioned it somewhere, but I don’t want to speculate on how.

[@NahIdontthinksoatall]

I was wondering when you were gonna talk about damage quantization. I honestly know a little too much about calculating damage in warframe. I think I have more hours on the wiki than in mission hours.

[@TheArcSet]

It is a bizarre subject, I recently had to go into it to make a build that could one-shot SP juggernauts ... and that inverse dps quantisation DR is weird.

[@NahIdontthinksoatall]

@@TheArcSet that's not damage quantization that's dps based damage reduction. Let me get on the wiki in a bit so I can refresh a little so I can explain it.

[@NahIdontthinksoatall]

@@TheArcSet actually damage quantization is shown at 19:25 so just read that or skim it.

[@DecoyJayc]

Please, make a video about what strats are best against "adaptive damage". Thanks, Kengineer!

[@paulamblard3836]

At my knowledge, the only source of adaptative damage is Baruuk's exalted weapon's mod augment. It just make that you don't need to care about chose the most efficient element, the mod will automatically transform your damage to the best element. And it is the only things that change.

[@dammitman3629]

@@paulamblard3836 I think he might have meant the "adaptation" kind of thing on Adversaries/Sentients.

[@tomcrossover7487]

This video should be played during the first weapon modding tutorial

[@Male_Parent]

I wish I would've known this sooner before putting my 8th and final forma on my Catchmoon to fit the new galvanized diffusion mod. I had both Magnum force and hornet strike on like an absolute dunce when I should've put a vazarin polarity to put deep freeze on it instead. I guess it's not all bad because I can still use frostbite for that cold just slightly less effective. (30% less effective) and Magnum force lowers the accuracy to make the spread wider (at least I think it does that). Also the fact that a madurai polarity is a lot more versatile.

[@TheArcSet]

If your aim to to force bleeding through impact procs on, then it doesn't hurt to have more base damage, especially as Catchmoon can't headshot, though when there's so many sources of external base damage now, most people would use those slots to buff raw damage, or other values, instead. I'd say it was the arcanes, more than the damage calculation, that made Magnum sub optimal.

[@rhythinrenny8504]

DMG quantizations comes in very handy but mostly in conclave where it can make some real difference

[@admiraldigi5060]

This was incredibly helpful and interesting Is there perhaps a video covering stat-sticks and how they affect some abilities on warframes? I can’t seem to wrap my head around it, even with vague testing, so I’d like to see how it goes through you

[@TheKengineer]

I have a video on stat sticks here already 🙂 kzbin.info/www/bejne/o5-bYZyegMqob5o

[@NerdishGeekish]

I came back to Warframe to take a vacation from Path of Exile. This is nothing compared to the PhD thesis worth of equations and modifiers present in that excel spreadsheet masquerading as a game.

[@RazeIII]

great content, and much learned from it. But: i'd like to have more examples shown. Just to make an easy to understand reference you know

[@DreadNought0255]

You see, this is why WF needs a DMG 3.0 to clean this up. Nothing wrong with deep mechanics. But this? There are way too many moving parts to make the system predictable for maintenance and long-term planning. I am, of course, talking about modding in particular. For example; why do elemental mods and IPS damage mods function differently? Nowhere in the game is this explained or detailed and is up for the player to figure out by trial and error. Again, nothing is conceptually wrong with deep mechanics with complexity, but I would argue that clarity of presentation is also important. If a mod says it does a thing and there are other mods that say that they do basically the same thing, then they should function the same. Personally I would like to see elemental mods function by either converting already existing damage to or only dealing this market damage on a proc. Making them more about utility then just a way to triple the damage you deal. And for critical damage I would like it if Chance as a stat was removed and instead you hit crits by hitting an enemy weak point. This would, hypothetically, create a situation where single-target precision weapons become useful again as AoE and melee weapons may be unable or severely unreliable in hitting them. This would also direct "crit builds" towards a more snap-shooting "high skill" style.

[@terciofelipeoliveirafrance2228]

I neede to rewatch to grasp the concept of pure dma and elemental dmg but was worth it

[@k_Why]

I had no clue there was something in the game that gave you flat crit chance like arcane avenger does. (I dont count smeeta crit buff cause it overwrites your normal crit) That makes this arcane sooo much better than i thought it to be

[@TheKengineer]

There's a few. Adarza Kavat's "Cat's Eye" and Harrow's "Covenant" are also absolute critical chance buffs. Combined they can give a guaranteed red crit on headshot, even to a weapon with 1% base critical chance.

[@takezokimura2571]

Narrator: And today is our first class of Warframe math. I'm your teacher TheKengineer and today we will learn the damage calculation.

[@GeorgeNoX]

it is beyond be why in warframe stat numbers are always displayed wrong so i always have to go to outside sources like overframe to have the exact numbers i should be getting in game. Its just mind boggling to me

[@PROTOBLUES90]

Yes cover that damage reduction stuff please

[@arvinabo-abo4808]

How about the melee combo multipliers? Is it bad to stack initial combo mods? Like corrupt charge + covert lethality + riven

[@gmmgrey1852]

Ok, so I'll have to watch this a couple more times haha 😅. That said, I would love to see some more examples taking different weapons, and a damage breakdown of them to understand certain factors better. This just might be too much work though :p

[@zrevan4262]

Please do make a follow through video explaining enemy resistance and how best to go about doing damage at uber high lvls

[@BimmWPBS]

This please

[@renaparker8323]

thanks, you made me look up damage quantization ??? indeed

[@___________________3704]

Can anyone explain why that thing is like 702% on 3:58 ? that was like 265 x 265 btw, Is there any calculation method or something for that?

[@TheKengineer]

Sure. A percentage like 265% is the same as writing 2.65. Eg if something does 265% of what is used to, it's doing 2.65 times what it used to. 2.65 x 2.65 = 7.0225, which is the same a 702.25%, or 702% rounded to the nearest whole percent.

[@manicdee983]

Now do a video on how to control the Final Harbinger stance. I always get stuck with the situation where I'm trying to hit the enemy standing immediately in front of me, but when I press the melee attack button my frame will leap through the enemy twirling the sword and shield, land, throw the shield across the map, wait for it to return, then perform the New York song and dance routine (da da dun da da / da da dun da da / "Start spreading the news / I'm leaving today / …")

[@mon0theist_tv]

My question has always been, WHERE is this information documented? Is it in the wiki? Do people just figure it out by trial and error in the Simulacrum?

[@thedude232]

Faction and elemental are better than serration, then? What's more worth to build for Critical chance or Critical damage, or would that just depend on the weapon?

[@TheKengineer]

Depends on the weapon, and the rest of your build for that matter. Crit chance bonuses matter less than normal when using Zephyr/Yareli/Harrow, yet more when using Volt for example.

[@Rastous]

Would be good to get a video to cover how the enemies reduce damage such as with the new Sisters since it's really unintuitive. I've seen other people try to explain it but doesn't really tell me how to maximise my damage against them.

[@justincronkright5025]

I was wondering if anyone would or could if they so pleased... Work through what I think is my strongest riven yet - but perhaps that's just because it is both comfortable and also fun. I have had my Destreza Riven - and because it's not an oft-used weapon its disposition is fairly high. The weapon is 32% Crit Chance and 3x Crit Multiplier, I have my riven for [207.8% Crit Chance, 104.8% Crit Damage, 2.2 Range & the barely unfortuante -38.5% Damage to Infested]. I've put the build as: Primed Reach Sacrificial Steel Sacrificial Pressure Amalgam Organ Shatter Primed Fury (I do over Berserker given the low base attack speed during Steel Path) Blood Rush Gladiatour Might MY RIVEN Overall I get: 1.42 Attack Speed 187.5% Crit Chance (Blood Rush and 4 Gladiatour Mods *Usually) 10.5X Crit Multiplier 7.7 Range 20% Status (Forced Slash is the focus of course though) 505.7 Base Damage (with majority Puncture of course) I suspect that bloodrush does not get added to my 187.5 in the info boxes... and that when you start a mission you are considered at 1X Combo Countre... so you get the 40% off the bat making this 200% Critical chance eh - I also have the gladiatour mods too. With procing 200% Critical chance/Having a double crit, do I then get 20X the base 505.7 damage? Because the critical damage increase is the (10.5X - 1), but the very initial value is 10.5X and then you add the 10.5X but minus that by 1 so that you don't apply the base 1X multiple times over. So each 100% Crit Chance it goes up by 9.5 and at 9.5 x 505.7 = about 4.8k damage: 200% Crit Chance = 20X = 10k Damage 300% Crit Chance = 29.5X = 14.8k Damage 400% Crit Chance = 38X = 19.6k Damage if I did that conceptualisation correctly and I do the full 40% Gladiatour Set and 40% Blood Rush at 12X Combo Countre I get 960% Crit Chance on the 32% = An added 307.2% Overall Crit Chance multiplier meaning I can reach 307.2% + 187.5% (I have shit arcane farming to add here amongst a few other forgotten/deferred farms)... to equal approximately a 500% Crit Chance for 47.5X Multiplier to 505.7 damage = 24 020.7 [not including things like increased puncture damage versus grineer before reductions]. I know I'd need to really fine-tune calculations by going back and altering damage at the beginning before mods, but the big part I wanted to know what is that 10.5X base followed by 9.5X Crit Multiplier increase per 100% Actual Crit Chance all done correctly. Perhaps someone would maybe work with me or do some calculations themselves, so that I could largely copy-paste the procedure accurately to other weapons.

[@3XOUT]

In “The Average Damage Equation” was unusually and surprisingly unclear in this video my dude. I’m only now getting into Faction mods for instance. Not bc I’m a noob by any means, I just didn’t use them for stupid stubbornness reasons. When are these applied then? And elemental damage is added very last or what? Implying that it’s actually not affected by “modded damage” including faction mods. When is what damage applied/buffing the other? I kinda thought faction mods were multiplied as the very last thing (or close to). So like all the dmg you would normally deal to that target without multiplier X 1.65. And then ofc AGAIN applied to the procs. Double dipping, like people say. Something like that.

[@ggaming5041]

Really awesome vid man! The only thing that annoyed me is the white background that burned my eyes while watching this before going to sleep :)

[@Brusilnik]

Great. I've been having fun, using heat in place of hunter munitions on some weapons, only to find out its a bug. Guess I'll enjoy it while I can.

[@TheKengineer]

If you've only been using one source of heat (such as just that weapon), then a fix for this bug will not affect you. It's only when multiple sources of heat are involved. If anything you might get a damage buff in group play, as other players using heat would no longer risk nerfing your status damage.

[@Brusilnik]

@@TheKengineer ah, listening to it again, it makes more sense. I was under the impression that heat was multiplied every tick. Even better then, thanks for the reply!

[@xxOnigiri99]

The kengineer: check out this math to help you do insane damage! Me: haha Ignis wraith goes wooooosh

[@Mordewolt]

You're making this too convoluted for your own good, and letting the mistakes pass through, like, for example - you got the elemental completely wrong, elelemental mods are multimplicative with base damage mods, but as of yet there are no elemental mods that are multiplicative with each other, there are only specific conditional attacks that are multiplicative with elemental, who themselves can be elemental - like forced heat, gas, electricity, blast or toxin procs from special alt fires, stances or weapon pasives.

[@vidjagames72]

Rolling through the comments to make sure I'm not crazy, the elemental would have been 165% of the now modded 265% damage resulting in cryo being 437.25% damage, thus making elemental multiplicative on modded damage not additive to base damage. He wound up correct on his statement that total damage is now 702% of base but has incorrect math to get there. Saw in another comment how he got to that final damage amount is he multiplied the two values together as 2.65x2.65, while this got him to the correct 702% it was wrong. 265% base damage plus the 437.25% elemental results in 702.25% total damage.

[@TheArcSet]

He did say that they are multiplicative... and gave 2 mod examples of that being the case, did you get confused? He included the 1(100%) without writting that he was adding it. Not sure there are any any alt-modes that multiply damage, as oppose to just having different base values. (Fired_Up is multiplicative with heat mods. Toxic_lash too, though that's an ability)

[@TheArcSet]

@@vidjagames72 He said it was multiplicative, not additive. (base-unmodded::1 * 1.65) * (1 +1.65) = 7.02 . He just simplified the brackets. 437.25% would be being both additive and multiplicative together.

[@vidjagames72]

@@TheArcSet couldn't figure out a way to link my other comment (didn't want to copy it again) but sort by recent comments to show an expanded example by me TLDR of it is his math is wrong. He got final damage correct but using incorrect math which when expanding to find ips and elemental values displays this flaw in his math. Math as explained in the video and a couple of his comments is (1+1.65)(1+1.65) but should be (1+1.65)+((1+1.65)1.65) to get the proper ips and elemental values and still have the correct final total value.

[@Mordewolt]

@@vidjagames72 this math implies you get 2.65 of the base as the element, which is wrong. He's making the same mistake in the later videos, when describing the faction mods, saying that you get to do "1.5 extra damage". In these particular easy examples the math "checks out" only because you fuck up the attribution in the process. If you do the proper math and preserve the attribution - this botched math would result in massive double dipping.

[@misterjoshua5720]

We HAVE to see a damage overhaul, top to bottom.

[@Englandinpoverty]

Can someone explain the bottom equation at 3:09. I understand the idea that having multiple additive mods is not ideal because the % of damaged gained from each mod becomes less with more mods due to the %increase being based off your base damage and not off damage after the first mod is applied, but I don’t understand what’s actually happening in the equation. Why are we doing (430 -265) /265. How does this calculate the %gained from the second mod.

[@TheKengineer]

Before the second mod we have 100% (the base damage) and 165% (first mod). That's 265% multiplier. By dividing the second mod's bonus of 165% by the existing multiplier of 265% we get the effective increase. (430-265) = 165. It's just another way of showing that.

[@Englandinpoverty]

Ah i see thanks for the explanation

[@TheRealTburt]

I need to understand what causes numbers to go up, what it means for it to go up, and how to make it go up.