ESSENTIAL TURNTABLE SETUP TIPS, AND WHY TONE CONTROLS SUCK!

[@conorkiley1426]

I REALLY appreciate this video. Thank you for making it. I'm not very knowledgeable on the technical aspects of vinyl playback, but have been a record collector for over thirty years. Now that I've become more of an audiophile, it's increasingly hard to find solid information and tips from those who are TRULY knowledgeable. So, thank you for sharing your passion and hard-learned experience. (I love your other videos too btw, especially the interview with Herb Richert about his jazz listening history! Thx for all you do.)

[@kenmicallefjazzvinylaudiop6455]

Thanks for the vote of confidence

[@DrLothar]

Recently I came across a needle drop the notorious Michael Fremer had done of a certain favorite artist of mine with the 300k dollar Wilson-Benesch turntable. I thought, wow, this sounds amazing! I knew I had the same pressing he'd used, so I decided to take a comparative listen on my humble, mostly vintage setup. My setup was a Lenco L75 with Ortofon as212 arm and an Audio-Technica vm95ml cartridge/stylus, some no name bull crap phono pre, a 70's Toshiba receiver and Triangle Br03 speakers. And wouldn't you know, every single thing I heard on Fremer's needle drop I could pick up with my setup. Of course it didn't sound as sharp and precise as Fremers but his stuff better sound beautiful. (Although my copy of the record was in much better shape than his.) Point is, you kinda make it up to be like you need to pour thousands of dollars into your system before you can start to hear or appreciate your records and I don't think that's true. Obviously, it will only get better once you start finessing your setup and adding finer stuff, especially in terms of imaging and instrument placement etc. but it's not like you can't hear - let alone connect with and appreciate - what's there with a lesser deck.

[@watdanuqta-mf5ms]

Yeah,,,, well, you're comparing something over the internet to your home setup. I'm curious at what you would say after listening to Mikey's setup at his home in the sweet spot chair.

[@michaelb9664]

@@watdanuqta-mf5mshe’d be hearing different speakers in a different room so it would be a drastic difference. However a digitised needle drop is a perfectly good way of comparing how that vinyl front end compared to his on his system since the recording was taken from the output of the phono stage. If it really is a drastically superior TT setup it would still be revealed the way he was listening to it. What’s the point in Fremmer doing needle drops if not for people to listen to them with some degree of fidelity?

[@thomascaselli6139]

Very well said Ken. As someone who has been into audio equipment since 1972, my goal was always to be able to extract everything on the recording. At 18 I has a system that was about $600, today that system would be $4500. So it amazes me how so many people who have gotten into vinyl in the last 10 years take a stance that spending more than $1000 on a vinyl playback system is all you need. They’ll stand on a line discussing this while waiting for their $7 starbucks coffee

[@1999zrx1100]

You’re exactly right, it’s amazing what quality you get today for the money compared to the 70’s yet guys still think it’s crazy money. 😎

[@user-ex9zm7bg3x]

But $1000 phones. Priorities.

[@Harrispilton22]

Oscar Wilde once observed of someone 'A man who knows the cost of everything...& the value of nothing' I think he was reffering to cynicism..but it feels relevant here. 🙂

[@crodoc69]

Well quoted. It fits perfectly.

[@fredericmorris2931]

Entirely fair and reasonable Ken. I agree with you on tone controls, though you can find them on high end integrateds, such as Luxman and Accuphase. That said, I do think a balance control is worthwhile.

[@jonathanscull7712]

Good show, LP purchases growing again like crazy, great to explain how cost-effective 'tables are out there and what to listen for. Your view is valuable.

[@VintageStereoCollectorChannel]

As a vintage Luxman gear collector I appreciate having tone controls on my SS and tube preamps. Luxman C1000 (Tim de Paravicini) ) CL350, CL35 MkIII (currently being restored).👍👍

[@analoguecity3454]

I'm "pro" tone control, recorded music is meant to be a "planned illusion" anyway! They put 16, 24 (or more these days) together on a two track! Sound is subjective anyway, your never going to get it to sound like the speakers they have in the studio! It's good to be able to tone down a super bright recording, or boost the bass a little for a recording that's lacking! Just my opinion, we all entitled to it! Great channel!😊

[@kenmicallefjazzvinylaudiop6455]

You don’t see Tom controls on better gear, in fact, you see as little as possible. The idea is to remain as pure as possible to the original signal. Anything added to the original signal is not the original sound or anywhere close to it

[@sidesup8286]

Tone controls do not get you further away from the intentions of the artist & recording. Bad mastering engineers, less than great pressings, warps etc. add much more distortion than well designed tone controls. If the mastering engineer has bad taste ot bad hearing; that's what takes you further away from the music. Not correcting brightness or dullness using tone controls to get the timbre correct, which so many incompetent mastering personnel can't do or don't want to do on purpose. To get a frequency response that sounds better in cars for sales, where your average person listens to music the most. "Correcting Wrongs", either because of incompetence or on purpose is what tone controls can do; and that is a GREAT thing. If they take 3 or 4% away to give you what is more accurate timber; then that's the small price you have to pay. Worth it! OR...OR...you can spend thousands and thousands of dollars buying one cable after another, which some people use as tone controls, to get just that right balance, that a simple 1/10 inch turn of a tone control can do the same thing. I guess the former is the Audiophile way; which seems to always be the most tortuous, expensive way, more often than not. Reminds one of the joke; the how many people (insert your ethnic group of choice) does it take to screw in a light bulb? Four; one to hold the light bulb and three people to spin the chair around in circles. Same thing.Ridiculous. Don't listen to anyone and listen for yourself is always my best advice, because it is the best advice there is.

[@jeffbrooke4892]

I've been a tube guy for 40 years and I would agree with tube rolling being another form of tone control. If tubes didn't vary in their tonal quality, then there would be no pass time of tube rolling. I just put up a thread on Audiokarma asking if changing DACs wasn't just another form of tone control. And after 4K viewers and 11 pages of responses I think that fundamentally that's exactly what DACs do. And I'm talking about what constitutes the difference in sound as one ventures up the ladder in the DAC market.

[@Maquis1943]

I don't think Ken is saying that tubes don't change the tone, he's saying they don't *ONLY* change the tone. They can fundamentally change the entire presentation if you listen closely enough. Also a DAC is not a good example of how tubes can change the sound, since you are starting off with a digital signal-any tube will already "warm up" the sound, as they say. If you're a tube guy then you must know this. Swap out some Chinese 12AX7s with some NOS Telefunkens, and tell me that the only thing that has changed is the "tone", like you just turned the treble knob up or down-you know that that's just not true. Also, Audiokarma has a lot of dumb opinions, just like everywhere. As a member myself, I check out after usually the first two pages once it begins to degenerate into hoo-ha and opinionated nonsense...

[@LyndonSoulGroove]

So True, I've found over the years i've up graded my Turntable & tried different cartridges & phono stages, I had a Project transistor Phono stage & was Superb for years, then I upgraded to a Valve Project 500 Pounds ( uk ) And I can hear some things in the Mix, even compilation Lp's sound better with well setup MM cartidge..the K tel type. Even slightly scratched records sound better than Cd's its the attack of the instruments. Some cheeper turntable can be setup better to get the best of them..

[@kenmicallefjazzvinylaudiop6455]

Thats it

[@chrisgoyette1846]

I've got Technics SL1200GR and the leveling feet are Awesome with lots of travel. I've had zero issues with leveling this awesome turntable. Also the VTA adjustments are simple and straightforward. I agree on phono pre, I got the project tube box s2 for my 2nd turntable. The GR2 is running through the internal phono pre of my Marantz model 50 integrated, so far I'm very pleased with my setup, at some point ill try the GR2 with the tube box s2 to hear any differences. Good video! Peace from RI

[@Mayday73]

I guess i don't agree with much said in the video. The most glaring is saying that what is on the record is what the artist intended or what it was like in the studio. No record or any playback medium will get you there no matter what gear you play it on. It's not like the artist is going to walk into you room and say "well that's not the way I wanted it to sound, get more expensive gear". Your best bet is to get what you can afford and sounds good to you and enjoy your music.

[@grantbassett2048]

I agree, years ago looking threw hifi magazines used to blag my head, trying to look for the best deal and hifi I could afford,or not afford 😅. But the Internet.....mind boggling information 😆. Just enjoy the music!!!!!!!!!!!😊

[@kenmicallefjazzvinylaudiop6455]

A better turntable exposes more of the music in the vinyl. You may have a problem with that, but it's the truth.

[@michaelb9664]

@@kenmicallefjazzvinylaudiop6455the cheapest competent digital sources will expose more of the recoding more accurately than any turntable at any price. You may not like it, but that’s the truth.

[@ecyfoto]

Ken, the idea that what is stamped into our media is the artist’s original intent is naive thinking. Defeatable tone controls offer the OPTION of applying a bit of EQ to diminish the shortcomings of so many releases. Why would anyone subject themselves to listening to a crap pressing because of some misconceived dogma? I can’t count how often I was disappointed by an LP’s sound quality on first play. Fortunately there’s a cool remedy at hand to help enhance its listenability. It’s called a tone control. Good vinyl advice especially for newbies. Thanks.

[@patbarr1351]

I liked this video, Ken. Except for your discussion of tone control. I've worked with multitrack at home & in the studio at my college (yeah, it's been a while) & I've always been well aware that the room in which I'm working & listening is... *that* room. The listener is in *their* room. The EQ I applied that sounded good in my room on the day I applied it will not sound the same in their room.Even in *my* room I might feel differently about that sound in November 1983 than I do in October 2024. We always used 2 sets of speakers (little + big) to judge the sound. We didn't normally listen via headphones. A well designed EQ is an enhancement to the listening experience. It's *fun* & I am more about enjoying the experience of listening to a CD (or LP) than being "true to what the artist intended" (which may really be about what the mix engineer intended).

[@kenmicallefjazzvinylaudiop6455]

There’s a reason you don’t see town control on better gear. Actually you see as little as possible. So the signal can remain as pure as possible. If you are a recording engineer, you know that.

[@patbarr1351]

@@kenmicallefjazzvinylaudiop6455 But we don't always want a "pure" signal. That's why guitarists put a mic in front of their amp instead of using a direct connection. Maybe you choose a phono cartridge that you feel gives an uncolored reproduction. I might pick one that adds some warmth. Of course this discussion has continued for decades, but I think options are wonderful.

[@amosperrine1909]

Back in the day there was a saying, "Garbage in, garbage out." If you don't begin with a good starting point that gets the music out of the grooves then no matter how great, or expensive, the rest of the system is it's not gonna sound good. In other words, I tell folks, put your big money in the table/arm/cartridge, then work from there. Many are aghast when I say that speakers are the least important part of your system. A good speaker simply lets you hear the inadequacies of the rest of your system. BTW, my sound begins with an original SOTA Sapphire, upgraded to current specs some time ago, Origin Live Illustrious arm, Kiseki Purpleheart OS. The resultant music does does come out of my Tympanis, it floats in front of them.

[@richardelliott8352]

I might add that a good starting point is a good moving magnet cartridge, the higher output signal allows a significantly less expensive , or less a less complicated amplification chain, returning to the straight wire with gain amplification goal for better sound. The design also delivers an impact on rock music that is not characteristic of other designs at a similar price. both the cartridge and the speakers are the voice of the system, but without a solid core amplification, they don't mean much. fortunately good amplification doesn't have to cost like a good turntable set up.

[@user-ex9zm7bg3x]

I agree. The Linn "source first" approach. Which after many years in audio I adopted. But -- more recently I lean towards those who recommend putting a little more in speakers and a little less in preamp/amp.

[@lawrence.porter]

There’s a lot of sound that old ears can’t hear and that’s a proven fact. No one needs a $30,000 turntable or even anything close to that cost to appreciate their vinyl. You can get extremely good sound from a $200 table with a decent cartridge and obviously a decent but not overpriced amp and speakers. Do people pay the price they pay for their iPhone because of huge noticeable differences between that and a $200 Android phone? No, they buy it solely for the Apple name. Similar to those that pay all kinds of funny money for any tech that may have higher quality components but can’t really tell the difference from lower quality, just to show they have the brand. An example I’ll give you is this, I’ll bet you $10,000 that I can play you a 320kbps mp3 file, which I ripped with my own software, and the same song in FLAC form and you won’t be able to tell me which is which.

[@ernesttricarico6402]

You said it like I believe it is. And kept your cool. Bravo 🎉

[@quocrip]

@@ernesttricarico6402 Are you referring to my comment or to Ken’s original video?

[@greatpix]

I think you're both right. Most people aren't interested in sitting and doing critical listening like an audiophile does. They'll turn on the music while they clean house or do the dishes. When I was younger on weekends I'd wash the car while the radio was blasting, and I enjoyed the heck out of it. I also did critical listening later in the 80s and I sometimes found myself not as excited about the music. I was distracted thinking about speaker placement, did I need more room treatment in the corners, do I need to recheck how I mounted my cartridge because of an article I recently read? Everybody has their own way to listen to music. It's great that some channels offer advice for those who want to get the best sound but don't criticize another channel because they take a different view on equipment or listening. You look to be about the same age I am, in my 70s, and let's face it, neither of us has the hearing we did in our 20s, or even 50s but we make do with what we have left. The search for audio nirvana, with some spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on gear, is an unreachable goal no matter how much money you spend so enjoy the equipment you have and listen to music the way you enjoy listening to it because the music is what it's all about.

[@kenmicallefjazzvinylaudiop6455]

@@greatpix i’m in my 60s not my 70s thank you. It is one thing to offer a different attitude or slant, it is another to offer misinformation. Tube rolling is not tube controls. If you care about your music and your records and you want the most out of themthat will play them back with some degree of high Fidelity. I review audio gear for a living. But I also often sit down and listen to records for pure and enjoyment. One does not obviate the other. I’ll say it again if you care anything about your music the least you can do is buy a $200 U-turn orbit turntable. People spend more than $200 on a damn watch. Buy a decent integrated amplifier from NAD or paras sound. Buy a decent pair of speakers from Wharfdale. And whatever you do don’t buy those damn Kliosch RPM 600s those are an enemy to the music

[@greatpix]

@@kenmicallefjazzvinylaudiop6455 Once again I'll say that there are many people who feel the same as you but many more that are quite happy with their inexpensive systems. I'm somewhere in between. I was more into audio in the 80's with my PS Audio Elite Plus integrated amp, AR 'The Turntable' with Linn arm and cartridge, Spica speakers with custom speaker cables that cost me almost $150 (That's over $450 in today's dollars) and interconnects were about the same. What I have today is much cheaper yet I enjoy it just as much, even when critically listening. My one 'audiophile' component is a Rega Anniversary TT with a Nagaoka cartridge. Two actually, I just bought an ultrasonic cleaner to test. I was lucky enough to hang out with some real golden ear, and somewhat famous, audiophiles like John Iverson and Mike Moffat. My best friend made some remarkably good speakers under the Qysonic and Lantana brands. Stereophile gave a good review of one of the models. He had two patents on speaker design. John Iverson praised them.

[@siriosstar4789]

"Really bad advice " well the title says it all about this video .

[@faustus67]

Is the intention in listening to music to hear what the artist intended or for me to enjoy the music? If I enjoy the music on an inexpensive tt with a built in phono stage and powered speakers, am I wrong? Would an artist forbid me from buying their music because my kit isn't good enough (or isn't the same as their kit). Should I give it up and not listen to music? If the goal is to enjoy music, then whatever works for the person listening to the music is right.

[@tmdillon1969]

One thing we know is real beyond a doubt is the placebo effect.

[@hanzel-fb7jo]

Well, I play Rega P6 - Aria MK 3 - Elex MK 4 - Vandersteen 1Ci+ and on occasions I which I had tone controls because the record needs some help. Let me tell you that this is a great combo. I have had the chance to play the same music at the dealer near me on a Mcintosh MA 352, and its true that when I engage the equalizer I can hear a degradation of the music, but when I make the necessary adjustments I go like “wow, I fixed it” - its a very satisfying feeling. I agree on synergy and that is why my cabling is all Rega. I also use their strobe kid and the Atlas VTF gage.

[@timessquarerecordscom1469]

Thank you for your passion

[@carminedesanto6746]

GM ☕️🍩 A little care and patience pays off with vinyl. Isolation being key …a tt is a mechanical device ..that works on mechanical principles…so everything adds up. Have a great Sunday

[@jackfalco5351]

Thanks for sharing your experience

[@johncalvo8420]

There's a few things money can't buy: 1. A good pair of ears 2. Musical Talent

[@JodyM2]

Shoot I got so many sweet tables for $100. I Love my Technics SL-1900 Auto

[@velchuck]

Ken, at 77 years, I’ve owned many turntables. I’m down to 5 now. But I must say that the audiophile mentality is insane. I’m all about the music and I can say that a $500. Fluance RT85 is fantastic and it’s not a arm and a leg to own.

[@kenmicallefjazzvinylaudiop6455]

Fluance is OK. Crossley is not. Or an old battered Technics.

[@abumc5104]

it's so cool to hear that it's not always about the expensive stuff. i like it, that there is someone honest. this rip-off the audio industry practices is so annoying. especially when you consider why music was produced on recordings in the first place. namely, because ordinary people couldn't afford visiting concerts. and now again. now the ordinary people can't even afford to enjoy music on vinyl on a good quality sound system.

[@kenmicallefjazzvinylaudiop6455]

@@abumc5104 $200 for a U-turn orbit turntable is not an outrageous thing. That is the cheapest turntable you can get that will play back with some degree of Fidelity and that will not destroy your records. Do your records mean anything to you in the long term? Do you actually love music or is it just something in the background while you’re washing dishes??

[@abumc5104]

@kenmicallefjazzvinylaudiop6455, no sir, since my childhood in the 80s, i've been into vinyl. the stylus in the groove, the sound, and the vibrations that come with vinyl records are unmatched. i'm taking good care of my records. and i use the old MKII technics from the past, with original cartridges. but my point is that more and more hi-fi gear produced in asia is more affordable than the overpriced equivalent from europe or america. btw, i like almost every record in my collection, even the ones that i'm not listening to for decades. i think, i'm just a vinyl addict who loves to collect soulful, great music to listen and dance to from time to time. plus, it's a way of supporting artists behind the music. therefore forever vinyl.

[@kenmicallefjazzvinylaudiop6455]

@@abumc5104 there are good products from China, but compared to better made brands they tend to be more open to failure and lack customer support, never mind the ability to cure problems. I bought a Chinese lens, it froze. and I was stuck with it. no supprt.

[@robertbosson5223]

The big issue with everything you state is the presupposition that the mastering and pressing is optimal, when it is not.

[@richardelliott8352]

I enjoyed how articulately this guy could describe what a better turntable can do. recording technology is so far ahead of vinyl record play back technology , it seems there is almost no limit to what a better turntable can bring to light from even a record you know well. He does miss a small point with the non adjustable Rega designs, they are designed to be a completely in house rega deal, built for rega cartridges, which don't even need a measuring tool to be correctly installed on a Rega arm, just set the arm weight as indicated. his comment about his downforce scale is factual, except records, often audiophile releases, come in different thicknesses . As for controls, straight wire with gain is the conceptual goal, and should always be kept in mind , but like every other amplification, results depend on quality. An engineer is using tone controls when he decides what goes on the record., nothing says you have to agree , or your playback area might need help. A famous example is a Led Zeppelin record that was too dynamic to play on a cheap record players , so was recut for a milder impact upon playback. One can spend the money to get a rare original pressing, or just turn the bass back up if you have quality tone controls. one thing that often gets overlooked is the importance of the tone arm, because most come with the table and a cartridge upgrade is usually the first weak link in an audio chain. But consider, a tone arm that allows the cartridge to work better, will bring that benefit to every cartridge purchased through the years . And better cartridges tend to be consumable items.

[@rich.e]

Totally agree on the impact of the tonearm; changing mine brought a far bigger sonic improvement than other upgrades I'd put in place, like phono stage, cabling, etc. Blew my tiny mind.

[@user-ex9zm7bg3x]

I buy Regas because I can set them up myself with no issues. A protractor? Please.

[@pmpgonzalez]

I can only talk about my own experience. I have a modest system, composed by a Leak Stereo 130 amplifier, a Leak CD transport, a Pro-ject RPM 4 turntable and a pair of B&W 607 S2’s. It sounded fine and suited well my 12 square meter listening room. I wasn’t bvery happy with what I was hearing from my turntable, so I’ve upgraded the cartridge from a 2M red to a 2M blue. Huge improvement. Then I added an IFI phone stage. Another huge leap in the right direction. Then finally a considerable investment (considering the overall cost of my system - around 3.000 €) on Audioquest cables. Also a big improvement. All the system and upgrades were influenced by people like Steve Guttenberg, Francisco del Pozo, Darko Audio, local store owners, magazine reviews, etc. I’ll conclude saying that I agree with Ken. It’s been my experience that investing in better gear has a big impact on your system. As long as there is good synergy between components.

[@richardelliott8352]

I might add that how I understood his point about matching cables to the system is the fact they they become part of a circuit, and any change in a circuit will effect performance. and the change is unknown until the wire is actually in the circuit.

[@MrNicks-gn8jc]

What I have learned from my DECADES in high-end audio: the best system is the one that gets you to SIT DOWN AND LISTEN. The best systems FOR YOU is the one that makes most or even all of your current collection sound a way that gets your feet tapping almost everytime. The best system is the one that gets you head banging, your air conducting, you playing air guitar or air piano, you singing to the songs that bring back childhood and teen years memories. .....everyone's music tastes are subjective; but in the end if the system does not ENGAGE....what's the point ???

[@slowpawstevet3676]

Spending money on a system is all relative, a system is as good as its weakest link. There are a lot of goodies in those vinyl records to retrieve and it costs money to get them out. Tone controls are useful in many situations such as room size and furniture dynamics, also many records are not the most perfect mix over time and some need adjustment.

[@richardelliott8352]

I have slowly built up, over the years, my system using , for the most part, the weakest link philosophy. Now , as an old guy with a lot of records, I happily have a pretty nice playback system for them. I might add that the extreme subjectivity of how humans hear makes the entire deal dependent on how far one chooses to chase an illusion, because what you hear inside your head is only your individual reality at the time, it is only what you think, which will always be perceived as correct. a kid with a Childs record player might be enjoying his experience more than someone with a multi thousand dollar system. it's all dependent on what you think you hear.

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

Cheers, Ken! Subscribed. 🍺

[@gerardfletcher1203]

thank u for u video. and advice. true. u get what pay for. is so true. vinyl is getting very expensive now cheers

[@user-ex9zm7bg3x]

I can go through my records/CDs and point out to you, "this one has no top end", "this one has no bottom end", etc. That is not in my opinion "what the musicians wanted you to hear". And if it was they were wrong! It's not the equipment that needs tone controls, it's the recordings. So I consider McIntosh's new EQ a Godsend (even though, amazingly, there's no adjustment available between 3000 and 10000 cycles). Thanks for a very interesting video!

[@kenmicallefjazzvinylaudiop6455]

@@user-ex9zm7bg3x I want to hear a recording playback as flap as possible given the limitations of whatever equipment I have. I don’t want to add more distortion via tone controls. I was a musician, and I spent a lot of time and recording studios. And I’ve had all sorts of audio equipment. I want to be as simple as possible not add spice to the mix that wasn’t there to begin with. Thank you.

[@user-ex9zm7bg3x]

@@kenmicallefjazzvinylaudiop6455 I prefer tone control distortion to a lousy mix. Thanks!

[@hnphnp1]

Most musicians have no idea what they want in the way of sound, and most mixing engineers (and most mastering engineers for that matter) do a poor job after the recordings are captured. The loudness wars are not over and why does every acoustic mix still try to emulate that awful Ed Sheeran "sound" for example?

[@badvinyl4531]

Well said Ken!

[@denisreed4701]

Vinyl is great I love it, play it on my trusted and well cared for Linn Axis based system, as I said I love it. But! Vinyl is still stylus dragging through a plastic trough, it just is, and this creates noise that has to be overcome.! No matter how much you spend a good deal of t/t tech is about overcoming surface noise! I have to admit however to having an issue with the term ‘ Audiophile’ which is a nonsense label anyway! It is after all very subjective stuff! Can always gat a cd player of course!

[@TheRk1111]

One of the biggest problems, I think, is no one shops at an audio store{there are very few now} to hear the difference or read experts with credentials as an audio reviewer. KZbin is the wild west an anybody can say anything they want without evidence. A store will let you borrow cables or listen to speakers and amps before you buy. Things can be done on the cheap if you know what to look for, like finding Mullard 12 Ax7 tubes branded Hammond or finding a very quiet AR/AX turntable in you grandparents basement They may even have records just lying around for the taking. Compare and trust your ears!

[@ceejaydeesoozaa]

v good video. thx ken

[@tomgray6093]

I don’t know if it’s been mentioned but playing records on a really low budget turntable will result in damage to your vinyl. If you are on a budget try to get a reasonable quality cartridge, something in the Audio Technica range.

[@Sonus1002]

If tone controls were bad, people like Bernie Grundman wouldn't EQ any projects which is ridiculous since EQ is pretty much the single most important tool in mastering. I don't propose to fiddle with EQ all the time. I use it to perfect the frequency response of my system to get closer to what's on the recording and don't touch it afterwards. If it degrades the sound you're either doing it wrong, you have a bad device or your system includes the best monitors in the world in a flawless studio setting and everything has a completely flat frequency response (highly unlikely even in studios where you get lots of comb filtering from the mixing desk). Even Steve Hoffman says he likes to eq his monitors with pink noise when mastering. If you don't do that you'll never hear what's in the recording and you'll eq your speaker's reversed frequency response into the mastering project.

[@kenmicallefjazzvinylaudiop6455]

Bernie is remastering from the original tape. The mastering job is about EQ. But a guy who puts tone controls on a mid-level receiver is not Bernie Grundman. And as you get into much better gear, there are not Cohn controls or loudness filters or anything like that.anything that obfuscates the original signal is a distortion

[@Sonus1002]

@@kenmicallefjazzvinylaudiop6455 In a mastering job Bernie basically equalizes the frequency response of the microphones/mic positions and at home you should equalize your speakers. EQ isn't distortion. You can't get rid of distortion but EQ can be compensated. What do you think the RIAA curve and the Dolby A system on tape are doing? You get both compensations two times (encode and decode) + mastering EQ + cutter head EQ. Even if you're doing nothing at home you 're already getting 6 (!) extreme EQ processings on top of each other. Why should all those compensations be done only to let your speakers undo this precise work?

[@user-ex9zm7bg3x]

@@kenmicallefjazzvinylaudiop6455 Unless of course the original signal requires obfuscation.

[@kenmicallefjazzvinylaudiop6455]

@@Sonus1002 Bernie Grundman is using a custom built EQ costing thousands of thousands of dollars. He has a trained ear going back decades. You cannot equate what he does and his experience with tone controls on a budget integrated amplifier. The rest of Bernie system is equally of a high-end nature. This is not something you can buy at Best Buy. Your ears are not Bernies ears

[@Sonus1002]

@@kenmicallefjazzvinylaudiop6455 Then maybe Bernie should listen to my music not me. I'm not qualified to listen.

[@mrdougefresh]

This is the problem with this industry and hobby - the overcompensation of arrogance. For this man to suggest you are not hearing the same music with your $300 turntable that he is with his $10,000 set up is bullsh*t. Yes there are nuances but all these audiophile equipment reviewers think they have the ears of Beethoven…heads up they don’t. They get their equipment either for free or at a severe discount for their reviews and are trying to flex but they are playing house. And the proof is in him calling modest means folks or newbies the lowest common denominator. What a jerk.

[@Sonus1002]

How can a turntable designer and engineer don't believe in antiskating? Even if you don't hear a difference I don't want the suspension of my cartridge to run on the edge all the time. That's like putting bricks in the back of your car to the point where the springs are nearly fully compressed and expect to be able to drive on a bumpy road at high speeds.

[@jikenj]

Well done Ken keep up the good work I recently bought some New Old stock 6922 for my headphone amp and I like the changes.! BTW my pro- ject pro turntable is doing a great job coming from a vintage Philips GA 212!

[@quocrip]

You Sir, is why the word “Audiophile” is such a dirty word among music lovers. And calling new vinyl adopters the “lowest common denominator” is not only incredibly condescending, it’s downright rude! I have a modest system with a Pro-Ject Debut Pro, Ifi Zen phono stage, Cambridge Audio AX-A35 and some early nineties Celestion speakers. And that is all I need. I wouldn’t spend £30,000 on a turntable if I HAD the money. I find your attitude dismissive in the extreme of those who can’t afford YOUR level of gear. I enjoy my records, I don’t look at the gear I’m playing it on!

[@kenmicallefjazzvinylaudiop6455]

You totally misunderstand what I’m saying. His video was made to address the lowest common denominator. And it was full of false hoods. Tube rolling is not the same as adjusting tone. Tone controls take you further away from the music. I guess you didn’t notice but I said it $650 turntable sounded great. The new project T2.people get alarmed at the thought of taking on additional knowledge.

[@ivc5150]

@@quocrip well said ! The whole video was just an exercise in talking about his expensive set up. I loved the “G force on a turntable” bit. Absolutely no grip on reality.

[@md10175]

No no no dont you understand Ken has all the answers and he’s giving them out for FREE

[@quocrip]

@@kenmicallefjazzvinylaudiop6455Yes, it was good of you to praise the Pro-Ject turntable. I for one don’t get alarmed by additional information, after all I bought my turntable from doing my due diligence. What I was implying was that Rick and your good self are talking to people at different ends of the food chain. You’re at the multi thousands of dollars level. Most people aren’t ever going to be likely to be in a position to own something like that. That was all. I would like to consider myself as an audiophile, but I have a very limited budget to improve things. At the moment I’m perfectly happy with my system, but I wouldn’t gear shame anyone for having “inferior” equipment to mine. There’s plenty of room for all of us to coexist in the audio world. I wish you luck with your endeavours Ken.

[@user-ex9zm7bg3x]

@@ivc5150 Just for kicks put a book under one side of your 'table and give it a listen.

[@judithwatt8279]

I have a very modest system and am not into all the tech info but I did not hear your info as demeaning-just interesting. And if I had the discretionary income I’d upgrade as much as I could.

[@kenmicallefjazzvinylaudiop6455]

@@judithwatt8279 you don’t need a lot of money to put together a good system. But there is good information and there is misinformation. Just like there are facts in science and non-facts. To me what matters more than anything and hi-fi is the ideal of purity. And that is just an ideal and it’s always there. Garbage in garbage out. Don’t buy a Crosley record player. It will eat your vinyl records. if you care about you and you want them to last a while and you want to get the most possible from those records, think of your hi-fi as a piece of furniture that you want to last as long as possible. You can’t buy a good couch for $100. What makes you think you can spend $100and get a good hi-fi? I’m not directing you just a general sentiment. Music and records are to the most important things in my life. They give me adventure and solace and joy. I treat them as well as I can afford and they give me back more.

[@manabouttown57]

Before you stands an ‘Audiophile Karen’ in all its glory.

[@tmdillon1969]

There are some times he has a point but I have to agree with you on this post. These attitudes with a big slice of our community is exactly why audiophilia has zero traction with younger people. This binary elitist thinking is kryptonite to anyone under 40-45.

[@mikemoniz4441]

You are an audiophile. I can appreciate what you're saying and your opinion. But that is just an opinion. I'm not here to defend Joy of Vinyl, nor criticize him, but I feel when people make a video saying that so and so is wrong, they are wrong themselves. I can give you one absolute truth, you have no idea exactly what another person is hearing. I am about to turn 63 years old and I have damaged my hearing over a life time. Machinery, tools, vacuums, listening to loud music with headphones, going to concerts and standing too close to the front are some of the things that has damaged my hearing. I know that I hear better in my left ear then my right. There really is no way I will hear things perfectly balanced. I use tone controls to raise the high frequency due to the fact that I can't hear them as well as I use to. And I know that because my wife hears things at higher pitches than i do. The tone controls are used to make up the flaws in my hearing and give me a more lively tone. And I also believe tubes are mainly for tone or why else would you use them? If you're looking for the cleanest absolute sound, you might as well stay digital. Guitarist don't use amps to get more separation or depth, they change amps and tubes strictly for the sound. And about trying to get the clearest sound that was intended by a band or engineer, that is a subject for debate. Music is produced to sound its best on the current popular medium that people consume. Why do most vinyl listeners feel that original pressings back in the day sound better? Because vinyl was king. Once CD's took over, vinyl recording quality seemed to take a hit due to the fact that it was not important anymore. How is music mostly consumed today? Streaming. And where is one of the most popular places to listen to it? In your car for one place, and from a phone. A lot of music today is made to sound good in your car, blue toothed to a stereo or speaker. I can appreciate the fact that you love music enough to experiment and spend enough money to make your system sound the best it can, to you. But doing reviews of equipment doesn't make you an expert, it makes you a tool for advertisement. And please understand that I am not trying to be mean here. Just wish people would realize that music is music. And the real mastery is in the creation of the song, not the playback. Enjoy the music.

[@SubTroppo]

If you are a real music-lover without the dosh necessary for upscale vinyl reproduction and prefer in-hand media, make do with CDs instead (as man-o-man are they cheap second-hand currently!) and a lot less trouble if you move home regularly. If you get dosh and nicely settled with plenty of room for the gear and its space requirements* plus storage space for LPs, go ahead and do as Kens says, and when you want to add some nice bling for your system get yourself a Nagra reel-to-reel tape deck. *For guys generally (from my experience) all the gear needed will be surplus to requirements when a female significant-other arrives in their lives. ps It would be nice if somebody does a little survey asking youngish musicians about their systems and see how much they what they listen with and how much they spend on non-professional gear and what their general attitude to music reproduction is (hint-hint).

[@kenmicallefjazzvinylaudiop6455]

And, you have more wisdom than I do

[@Joe-yi8xj]

Young musicians are anomalies. Short attention spans. Ear buds. Yet somehow are more skilled than ever in many ways. Their taste does need work.

[@SubTroppo]

@@kenmicallefjazzvinylaudiop6455 Wisdom tempered by having a significant other... [Continued on page 94 (ref. Private Eye magazine)]

[@1999zrx1100]

Eventually you’ll have your own place and understand.

[@Joe-yi8xj]

@@1999zrx1100 I do understand. I’m just saying that the average young musician isn’t interested in putting together a system. And that shouldn’t be a standard that anyone else adheres to.

[@johncalvo8420]

In that same order of ideas, imagine a sound engineer mixing a live band, with a mixer with volume knobs only, so that the audience hears the band as they want to be heard. Anyways, if you want to hear a band in its purest form, it's better to go to a small jazz club with good acoustics and no amplification.

[@BobCoalWater]

You don't always get what you pay for and you made a demonstration of it in your video, by naming products that gives you bigger return for your money.

[@Thestereosteve]

Well said brother.

[@crodoc69]

The only thing that can justify its high price is the cartridge. Everything else is either snake oil or just extravagance. Even the mentioned 4000 USD without the cartridge is too much. The turntable should be accurate and have a silent mechanism. Period. Vynil as a medium CANNOT deliver what you suggest. Don't get me wrong, I prefer vinyl, but well-mastered FLAC or DSD (unfortunately, a lot of today's music is badly mastered) is better than vinyl in terms of detail and soundstage. Another question is whether that sound suits the human ear better, and more importantly, the brain. With "I prefer vinyl" I made my choice. But that doesn't mean that the things claimed in this video are true.

[@luisperez-fs2gz]

The Tone derangement syndrome is a real thing. Those dreadful knobs that help solve poor recordings discrepancies and room acoustics, have no business being next to the volume knob.

[@mpi5850]

Get over yourself. Tone controls, if you want them, are great and can also be bypassed.

[@gil3green]

Well Ken old boy you’re both right & wrong. I watched the guys video. He’s talking to a different audience. In this clip of yours you go out in the weeds, which Guys like me appreciate. I’ll conclude with this. I have a friend that listens to music with their IPhone speaker. Living with very modest means they upgraded to a JBL Bluetooth (modest) and was so happy & yes it was an improvement.

[@kenmicallefjazzvinylaudiop6455]

And it’s always fascinated me that the iPhone speaker sounds freaking incredible! Thank you

[@matzeflamingos]

Great Video - especially for newbies and newcomers

[@contemporaryhomeaudio]

Good honest info. It's expensive to get great vinyl playback. I'm not sure why people feel the need to sugar coat that fact.

[@lucdunas9887]

Hi love what your doing. What about McIntosh there expensive they have tone control, love the Mac sound don’t you ?

[@kenmicallefjazzvinylaudiop6455]

Today’s McIntosh is not yesterday is McIntosh. Their gear is all about the bling now, blue lights, and glowing platters. Thank you.

[@Keith-ux9ku]

In your opinion tone controls suck. Some of us seriously disagree but then we don't listen to jazz either.

[@kenmicallefjazzvinylaudiop6455]

@@Keith-ux9ku Tom controls don’t get you closer to the original sound of the recording. They get you farther away.

[@Mrsteve4761]

@@kenmicallefjazzvinylaudiop6455 The thing is, the 'original sound of the recording' may not always be the best. Granted, jazz lovers such as yourself generally enjoy very good recordings, but what of those who enjoy other genres in which the mixes are tailored to 'lesser' audio systems with inexpensive components or smallish speakers with limited frequency response? (these recordings surely do exist having experienced many in my eclectic musical taste). Or early recordings with extremely limited frequency response as a consequence of the early equipment music was recorded on? It's a simple remedy if equipped: A twist on the tone controls can change the unlistenable to something somewhat enjoyable or maybe even better. And the better gear I own with tone controls have a means to bypass them offering the best of both worlds; it's win-win.

[@md10175]

Build quality is one thing. This is borderline mental illness.

[@kenmicallefjazzvinylaudiop6455]

What I am offering are very basic set up tools. Think back to the 50s rather late 50s when people built their own amplifiers in their own speakers tube testers were in drugstores and you could buy what are now hundred dollar tubes for the equivalent of five cents.

[@md10175]

@@kenmicallefjazzvinylaudiop6455 basic for who? Anyone under 50 has no idea what you’re on about. If you’re really speaking to them - rather than simply throwing stones at someone else - try evangelizing to the congregation born after the moon landing

[@scottyo64]

I hadn't seen one of your videos in a while but this one was a turn off.

[@danmartinez5502]

Ken unlike you and I are familiar by hearing various brands. CES Vegas and other like Chicago. With that said hearing is believing. Just saying...

[@kenmicallefjazzvinylaudiop6455]

But don’t you know we are crazy?!

[@danmartinez5502]

@@kenmicallefjazzvinylaudiop6455 Yes we are it is part of being Audiophiles and vinyl junkies and Jazz

[@kgobrien1]

This kind of discussion is so stale. Almost talking apples and oranges. It's equipment shaming essentially.

[@Jonny_C73]

Ken thinks you should suffer through lousy sounding records for the sake of “purity”. 🥴 I think records were made to be enjoyed, and if you aren’t enjoying it, you should do whatever you want to make it sound better to YOU.

[@kenmicallefjazzvinylaudiop6455]

Playing your record. Find a good pressing. Not that hard. That is exactly what Ken thinks.

[@Jonny_C73]

@@kenmicallefjazzvinylaudiop6455 you may not realize this, but the vast majority of people don’t have unlimited funds to throw at numerous pressings in order to find a “good” one. Not that hard to figure that out.

[@GiancarloBenzina]

You come from a high end to debate a lowend perspective. Very unfitting.

[@redphil7797]

"Lowest common denominator" who do you think you are - unsubscribed

[@TheTomryan123]

"You get what you pay for whether it's shoes or books." WTF?

[@robcammell1069]

I won't be back

[@sidesup8286]

Tone controls are great. I understand about the straight wire with gain ideal, but less circuitry does not necessarily mean better sound. Passive preamps are so basic that if you look inside you might not see any real circuitry and less wires than the fingers on one hand. Yet I've never heard one that has the grip and control of instruments, as much more complex preamps. "Pass"ive. preamps have become "passe." Why would anyone think they are getting more accurate sound by not using tone controls. Tonal judgement in the studio is based on what their ears hear using different amps, speakers, cables and acoustics than yours. To think that by not using tone controls you are getting a more accurate depiction, the same as theirs, couldn't be further from true. If your speakers, amp, cables, acoustics and ears were exactly identical to those in the studio, maybe then; but ONLY then Because of the above variables, each recording has its own different frequency response. Tone controls let you maximize and adjust for just the right balance. A recording which sounded just right tonally in the studio, will almost certainly sound not just right on your different system and your different environment and ears. I adjust the tone controls very sparingly, but adjust them until it sounds like I am getting accurate realistic timbre and harmonic overtone structure, like real un-amplified instruments ALWAYS have in real life. Leaving your tone controls off, with the tone defeat button, you only get lucky every now and then. The slightest increase of the treble control, (an eighth of an inch) can transform a dull recording into a recording that really cones to life. Or a decrease can make a harsh recording lose its harshness. Unamplified instruments don't sound harsh or unpleasant in real life. So tone controls used by people with good ears and judgement can "increase" accuracy and faithfullness to the original recording session.. I have a vintage amp whuch lets you have tone defeat or tone controls on. Maybe I can hear the slightest loss in transparency and space with the tone circuit on, but it is barely noticeable. My recordings having just the right tonal balance is a hundred times more noticeable and important. My soundstage is still floor to ceiling with the tone controls on or off. They don't ruin anything by a long shot; and enhance so much That same amp also has a button where you can switch between Class A and Class A/B. Back and forth dozens of times in a row.Much more degradation going from Class A to Class A/B. Also my bass control has turnover frequencies. One setting where its action is centered at 400 hertz versus 200 hertz, loses a bit of deep bass prominence, but the mid bass not only is way more coherent and even, but the bass guitar notes sound way up in the air, like it has even been spatially enhanced. With the bass control on flat or on the other setting which is the 200 hertz setting, the bass sounds like it is constricted to sounding like its coming from way down around the floor and not as even sounding. I think we have all been brainwashed. Tone controls with tone defeat is best.

[@kenmicallefjazzvinylaudiop6455]

I don’t like passive preamps. But there is a reason you don’t see tone controls on better equipment. The idea is to remain as pure as possible to the original signal. I like vintage gear, but the distortion levels are very high compared to today’s better gear.they do have circuits

[@sidesup8286]

I like your videos Ken. To each his own. I am a big fan of sonic purity. Class A, Vfets, the whole schmiel. But I really don't hear much difference in the decrease of purity by having tone controls on. As Bob Carver said, once you get to a certain level of clean; there are more important things to worry about. I used much modern straight wire with gain gear, and it surprises even myself how important & beneficial tone controls are to me. There has been a philosophical change, a more well thought out change, as to what is more important concerning the tiny degree of difference things make. Getting just the right balance on recordings that all have their own different frequency responses is extremely important. Losing 3% in openness is not that important, as that; or even near. Some of the vintage integrateds have pre in/main out connections on back. Going straight to the power amp section, bypassing the whole preamp circuitry, now that's a noteworthy difference. But losing 3% to get more accurate timbre and more even balance is a good tradeoff. Besides, I do elaborate mods on equipment and I can often get 10 times 3% inprovement in an evenings work. For less bright highs, increase your tracking force a smidgen. Works every time. I rarely listen to vinyl anymore though

[@denisreed4701]

I like sonic purity as long as it sounds good, often however, it’s crap hence tone controls! I can change the tone but can’t change how the music was originally recorded or gods sake! You are effectively saying that you have to put up with what ever you are given whether you like the sound or not. Patent nonsense!

[@sidesup8286]

Tone controls do not ruin the sound. They can restore dulled harmonics, which the instrument would never sound like in real life. Or they can reduce the electronicy garbagy sounds that acoustic instruments never make in real life either. So how is that getting farther away from what is intended? It is getting closer to what is intended. Getting the timbre of the instruments correct. Unless the studios intention was for you to hear trumpets that don't really sound like trumpets or pianos that don't really sound like pianos etc. My system is ultra clean even when I use tone controls. And what they correct correctis far more important than any miniscule minuses that they cause during the process. I don't personally have to put up with anything. Using tone controls sparingly, i'm not sure I can think of one recording that doesn't sound good on my system. Maybe half of them would sound good without them, and even then, the balance would not be near as perfect.So what's the better option? Being able to enjoy all your recordings or half or less than half of them?

[@cynthiakis1731]

Nobodies talk vinyl qulity engenerig beacose bad recording sound is bad 70-80 is good recording

[@robcammell1069]

Yes you are telling people to spend 1000s and 1000s of dollars

[@ejtonefan]

There is no point in listening to vinyl records if they don't sound like "ear candy". Listen to CDs if you don't want to spend much money.

[@DonHamlin]

Right on Ken. The guy that made that video is a classic case of the blind leading the blind.

[@benzo277]

If you want to hear it as the musicians intended, why don't you play back on a ceramic cartridge with a 10 gram tracking force through a 50s budget record changer.

[@kenmicallefjazzvinylaudiop6455]

The old record players do not do a good as job as modern technology. No way shape or form. I have a thorns TD 124 from 1957. It’s a great machine, but it’s very noisy. But put an ortofon SPU on it and it sails

[@gotham61]

No. If you want to hear it "as the artist intended" you should get a 30ips copy of the master tape, and play it on an Ampex 300 tape machine through a pair of RCA LC1A speakers in the famous “furnace” cabinets.

[@sensational_cellar8606]

@@kenmicallefjazzvinylaudiop6455 Sorry to hear your 124 is noisy Ken, I have a MkII from 1966 and I’ve got it nice and quiet using motor springs from Hanze Hi-fi in place of the rubber grommets and a metal idler wheel from Audio Silente. The biggest improvement of all was a blue drive belt from an eBay seller. It is slightly longer than the standard belt yet had more grip, this means it transfers less vibration between motor pulley and idler. Another important tip is to clean all the running surfaces to a shiny finish, it really helps. Result is no significant noise or rumble.

[@rickg8015]

For me on the “Mk1” iit’s the new Motor Grommet​s, new Idler Wheel, and original belt that had very little wear. The replacement belts I tried were noisy..​Main bearing Bronze End Cap too made a big difference..@@sensational_cellar8606

[@kenmicallefjazzvinylaudiop6455]

@@sensational_cellar8606 thanks. I do have the springs and the motor has been dropped. I meant that it is noisy and comparison to a modern turntable. There’s just no getting around that. The inside of the 124 is like a watch lots of moving parts those are reflected. tell me more about that blue belt?

[@PickanPop]

I agree that you need to spend at least two grand for a quality TT. Anything less is practically a toy and not hi-fi. Regarding the J. Sikora, a thirty-six thousand dollar deck with a four thousand dollar tonearm is not a well-balanced table. You want your tonearm to be about a quarter of the total cost of the 'table, your cartridge another quarter with the other half going to the deck.

[@dazzle5556]

this guy talks uuter rubbish ,,

[@macmansantana7736]

Dogma at its finest!

[@kenmicallefjazzvinylaudiop6455]

yeah, leveling your turntable, aligning the cart to tonearm, adjusting azimuth--all dogma. That's like saying you boil eggs in cold water. Stupid

[@macmansantana7736]

@@kenmicallefjazzvinylaudiop6455 haha, is that all you got!

[@grantbassett2048]

Ive been buying some LPs again, old good condition. I bought a 2nd hand project turntable, plugged it in....LOUD BUZZ...🫨. Cant sort it. So looking for a new turntable about £300-£400+ separate phono amp around £100+. My Amplifier is early 90s Kenwood. The more i watch videos...and read on the Internet the more i realise how complex and expensive problematic vinyl is + cleaning and maintenance🤪. No wonder CD took over....! 😅. But i can also imagine having a setup that your 'HAPPY' with is brilliant...well worth it. So i will put the effort in!!😊

[@kenmicallefjazzvinylaudiop6455]

is the table grounded?

[@grantbassett2048]

@kenmicallefjazzvinylaudiop6455 Hi, Yeah, grounded to my 90s Kenwood amp, and tried it to my project phono amp/Denon mini system combo. Still loud buzzing. Thanks for your reply 👍 🙂

[@kenmicallefjazzvinylaudiop6455]

@ sounds like a wire is loose inside your turntable. Are all the cartridge leads solid connections? Does the system still buzz without the turntable playing?

[@grantbassett2048]

Hi, Yeah had the cartridge on and off. Wires look and feel good. Its Buzzing just as long as its plugged in, and hooked up to Amp or Phono amp. I listen threw headphones 🎧 so it's instantly obvious. The only way I could get it to temporarily stop, was to rest the ground lead on one of the RCA lead ends & half on ground terminal on the turntable, but it made the tone arm almost live, and my Amplifier feel almost live .

[@kenmicallefjazzvinylaudiop6455]

@ so it’s definitely a grounding problem of some sort. If when you play with the wires, it goes away. Did you say you were also using a photo stage? I’d run the cable first from the turntable to the phonos stage then the phono stage to the. Amp