KHP - Ep. 42 Simon Girty: The Sometimes Un-American, American

Simon Girty is a controversial character from the early frontier. He is often looked at as a traitor but if we look at his decisions can we see his true motives? Join us in this weeks episode!
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[@tedmetzger7017]

Great story about Girty as laid out in The Frontiersmen. I first read that book some 40 years ago and still reference it in my genealogy research with some of my ancestors mentioned in the book.

[@gpwcowboy]

I believe he lived til 1818 til the age of 77. He saved Daniel Boone at least once and Blue Jacket captured him also.

[@iamauntmeem]

Do you know where Simon Girty was on August 11, 1764? There was an Indian raid of Native Americans, led by a white man, who attacked a 34-year-old homestead of Reverand Roads, his wife, and 16 children. Several of the young children were kidnapped and all but one were killed. One child grabbed the baby and got away. This child that managed to flee was my ancestor. All else were murdered. One report claimed Simon Girty led the group. I know of the two Simons from reading all Frontiers Man books. And I am an avid American history lover. The party that killed the Roads family was looking for money and they thought the Reverand would have his parish's money. The deaths were all for naught as it was hidden in a cellar under the house.

[@KentuckyHistoryChannel]

Interesting! The Frontiersmen books are great reads!

[@Paulscottrock]

Ok, I listened to your video on my walk. It’s pretty accurate. Some cool details. Who knew that the blood brother custom was a Seneca tradition. I think that Kenton had become friends with several chiefs and certainly impressed them all by his incredible stamina. I think they did not want to burn him. I think that there were few chiefs who wanted to burn Kenton by the time Girty discovered him. I believe they would have gone through with it had Girty not appealed to them. Remember that Girty originally worked for the British at ft Pitt. He quit them. It was the British who gave the Indians blankets infected with pox. It was the uncouth frontiersmen who treated them so bad. They were a very rough lot. Not at all sympathetic to the native. Quite the opposite. Girty had no choice but to leave the employ of the British at ft Pitt. His own life was in danger. Today we are seeing a parallel conflict arise as so many Americans have become bellicose. And I feel like Girty did as a liberal progressive person under attack by the ignorant conservatives who are so intolerant and foolish. Simon was a lot like my people. While so many go along blindly with the pack, history shows that a brave man stands up for his own belief in right and protects his people no matter what. Girty was such a man. Principled.

[@richardthomas4015]

What was Girtys' involvement in battle of point pleasant and Morris family massacre. Ive read other stories of girty wintering with famiies and killing them in the spring. If stories are true, Simon girty had no problem killing families who trusted him. Defenseless Men women and children!

[@mrsmith8436]

Simon Girty along with is family were abducted by the Indians and watched their step father be ritualistically tortured for 3 hours including red-hot gun barrels being pushed through his body before being killed by having his skull split open. They were then separated and split up among 3 different tribes. Simon Girty and his family were likely all suffering great emotional trauma. Its a bit misleading to say they were “adopted” by the Indians when they were first taken against their will and what choice did they have in assimilating into the Tribe if they wanted to stay alive. Its stupid to say Simon Girty “relished” in assimilating. Today we call this Stockholm syndrome. All his siblings likely suffered from the condition and there is nothing kind or nice about it. Funny we don’t use the same words to describe black slavery. Nobody ever says the black slaves were “adopted” and they “relished” in being forced into assimilation and a new life. What choice did they have. Don’t sugar coat or leave out what the Indians did. Lets tell the whole truth

[@Paulscottrock]

I’d agree. It’s interesting that most captives assimilated into the native lifestyle to the point that they not only preferred to stay but some like Girty refused to rejoin the Eurocentric lifestyle of Victorian America in the 18 th century. I have spent many year’s trying to understand the Native American. You are 100% correct to be horrified by the behavior of those Indians. Just as you have every right to object to any kind of human rights abuse that occurs. I am reminded of a contemporary instance of this kind of brutality committed against a journalist name Jamal Kashogi. It’s not acceptable that we have not become a more enlightened race of beings. Because depredations still occur daily. And it’s unacceptable. So I agree with you. And there are no words that can explain or offer satisfactory excuses. None. What they did to so many captives is a large part of the reason that they suffered so much for so long as a result of the clash of our two vastly different worlds. Here’s what I think. Prior to the invasion of Desoto of America, the culture of the native inhabitants was very well developed and structured. They lived in towns. They were highly civilized and lived within a social economic structure that worked. The Native American values were noble, manners were strictly observed. Traditions were the most important element of their lives. Their survival depended upon them. There existed a delicate balance between the natural world and the native world. They worked diligently the maintain that balance. They mastered the art of agriculture. They understood botany and relied on the Forrest to provide a great part of their diet and for medicinal uses. They developed their society to respect the balance of nature. And without that balance, they watched their children suffer, starve, and die. They watched their tribe suffer and die from the disease that whites introduced, sometimes on purpose. They watched their lifestyle disappear. They struggled in poverty since the first day that whites appeared in the territory. They were under attack every day. The young men grew up angry. They were under pressure from the very same forces of commercialism that plague us today. The exact same families were behind the drive to colonize and enslave them that continue to work today to do the exact same thing to you and I. Some things never change. I think that the Native American were lost and desperate. I think they lost touch with who they were before the whites invaded. We can’t pretend they were all so cruel in a civilized world. They were products of their environment. They were good, bad and mostly in between. They were people like us. They were civilized and peaceful. They were competitive to the same extreme as we are competitive. They were curious and educated in their traditions. And they lived a very comfortable lifestyle, until the whites invaded. Until the institution of greed enveloped their world and destroyed it like malignant cancer. When they tortured white captives, it was an act of defiance. It was the only tool they had.

[@iamauntmeem]

@@Paulscottrock My son embraces the Native American way of life. He has studied their culture extensively. In fact, teaches classes about their culture at a college in diversity studies. We had been told we were Native American by my great-grandmother and grandmother. When I did my genealogy I found many of my ancestors came here as Quakers to flee European religious persecution. My son was very excited to hear we were Quakers because the Quakers were open to all people, all races, and all religions. Did some of the people who came here commit hostilities towards the Natives? Yes, but there are good and bad people in all groups. I have child family members from at least two families that were killed by Native Americans. Those children posed no threat to them.

[@richardthomas4015]

Indians were killing Indians and committing atrocities long before Americans colonized america